GSX1100G - No power to ignition

[theblacksmith]

Hi guys-jumped on the old GSX the other day and switched on the ignition-everything powered up as usual for half a second and then it all died. I am completely puzzled because-fuses are all good-relay is all good-what on earth can it be? A noise similar to a fuse blowing came from under seat but cant find anything out of the ordinary.
Anyone encountered something similar, any suggestions?? Any info appreciated,cheers.

[jellywrestler]

Hi guys-jumped on the old GSX the other day and switched on the ignition-everything powered up as usual for half a second and then it all died. I am completely puzzled because-fuses are all good-relay is all good-what on earth can it be? A noise similar to a fuse blowing came from under seat but cant find anything out of the ordinary.
Anyone encountered something similar, any suggestions?? Any info appreciated,cheers.
get a meter and check for power both sides of the fuses. sometimes they are blown but look ok

[FJRider]

get a meter and check for power both sides of the fuses. sometimes they are blown but look ok

Check for a main fuse off the battery. Or a shorted wire from the battery (+). Check terminal leads are a clean contact and earth contact is good (both ends of earth lead)

[YellowDog]

Check for a main fuse off the battery. Or a shorted wire from the battery (+). Check terminal leads are a clean contact and earth contact is good (both ends of earth lead)

My old Suzuki did this.

Not 'cos it was a Suzuki, but because it was old.

Cleaning the terminals with glass paper, both on battery and on leads may well do the trick.

Good luck.

[FJRider]

My old Suzuki did this.

Not 'cos it was a Suzuki, but because it was old.

Good luck.

A likely story ... :innocent:

[theblacksmith]

All connections are clean-I have a dim light on ignition now-after turning off light switch. Ive tested the battery volts-without any leads attached-it measures 12.52v. Connect leads and turn on ignition and goes down to around 3.5v.
Looks like a short to me-however no wires are touching the body/frame,could it be an alternator problem maybe? Anyone had that experience before?

[FJRider]

Try attaching jumper leads ... to a fresh (car) battery ... it may just be the battery thats fried itself ... (certainly sounds like it)

AND YES ...

[Bonez]

Could be a faulty ignition switch. More than likely the battery. Tired batteries die pretty quickly this time year with the cooler nights. Running the bike with a duff battery will put extra load on the charging system so not a good idea to run it for to long if you do jumper it.

[FJRider]

Jumper leads will tell you if the problem IS the battery ...

[theblacksmith]

Tried jump leads from a running car with the bike s battery and without the battery
same result although I had lights and everything else goes but not enough power to start the bike. We noticed that the cars alternator was charging hard as soon as I turned bike ignition on-which means somethings obviously drawing current. It even slowed the cars engine rpm's down a little. So Im still puzzled. Im still suspect of the alternator.

[Rhys]

Check for shorts, I have had insulation worn and shorting against the frame :facepalm:

[pete376403]

You could disconnect the bike alternator - if anything like older 1100s there is a four connector plug in the cable coming from the left side of the engine. That would tell you if the stator windings are shorted.

With a charged battery connected and the ignition on - do any wires feel hot? Pull the seat and tank off - and be prepared to disconnect the battery quickly.

TheGSresources.com has heaps of info about older suzukis, including basic electrical fault finding http://thegsresources.com/gs_garage.htm

[notme]

A noise similar to a fuse blowing came from under seat
What dos a fuse blowing sound like? Fizz? pop? buzz? Could you have heard a relay clicking rapidly?



Tried jump leads from a running car with the bike s battery and without the battery
same result although I had lights and everything else goes but not enough power to start the bike. We noticed that the cars alternator was charging hard as soon as I turned bike ignition on-which means somethings obviously drawing current. It even slowed the cars engine rpm's down a little. So Im still puzzled. Im still suspect of the alternator.

Won't be the alternator - there's no simple way an alternator fault can short the battery. Try unplugging the regulator rectifier.

As you say, it sounds like something is drawing current - but if it is only when the ignition is on, you have some clues as to where to start. First, find a wiring diagram for your bike, it will make life a lot easier for you - then pull all the fuses out. Put your voltmeter across the battery, and start putting fuses back with the ignition on. Find the fuse that suddenly drops the battery voltage, then start checking things on that circuit - e.g. it might be the headlight circuit, and you might find a wire behind the headlight that has melted.

One thing that's strange here is that in order to drop the battery volts to the level you mention, or to make a car alternator work hard enough to drop the engine RPM, something must be drawing a significant amount of current. Yet it's not blowing the fuse.....interesting. Let us know how you go.

[p.dath]

Check for shorts, I have had insulation worn and shorting against the frame :facepalm:

+1. Especially check around cable ties (insulation can rub off on them). Check around anything than can come, like fairings, which may have broken some insulation when they were put back on.

You could also try feeling the temperature of the wires. If the battery voltage is dropping to 3.5v or so, and the battery is ok, then something is drawing a *lot* of current, and will be getting really hot.
I'm surprised something hasn't melted actually.

[p.dath]

Actually I'd be tempted to remove all the fuses except for those related to ignition. If the bike starts, put the fuses back one by one until you find the circuit with the issue.

[theblacksmith]

Cheers for the great response in here - I will have a bash at it today again-sadly its at a mates house so I have to run back and forth. I will try removing fuses and adding them back one by one to see if i can find it that way.Hopefully it is a wire rubbed through or something-how it hasnt melted is boggling my mind as well.

[MSTRS]

Sounds like it could be related to the starter solenoid.

[theblacksmith]

Today I charged the battery and took all the fuses out. Connected the battery and turned on ignition-battery read 13.8v. Put main fuse (25amp) in and power dropped immediately to around 5 v. Then I put the ignition fuse (10amp) in and the power dropped a wee more to 3.8v. The signal and light fuses made no difference. I think I will disconnect the alternator next and see if the problem goes away. I read this afternoon that an alternator can short out so I still haven't ruled it out. Here comes an offload of $$$$$ probably! Grrr!:violin::facepalm:

[theblacksmith]

Thanks for all your input- I need a new battery and I feel like a twat lol! After virtually stripping the bike-my mate chucked his battery from his gsx1400 and the fkn thing roared into life! So I guess a battery s life can come to a quick halt. Bloody things.
Any suggestions where I can get a good battery for a good price-cheers.

[pete376403]

Supercheap. But bike batteries are a hell of a price compared to similar size car batteries.

[theblacksmith]

Just priced up a Yuasa from Moto One - $130-sounds good to me.

[FJRider]

Just priced up a Yuasa from Moto One - $130-sounds good to me.

No doubt you hearing it start ... would have sounded better ... :lol:

[notme]

Tried jump leads from a running car with the bike s battery and without the battery
same result although I had lights and everything else goes but not enough power to start the bike. We noticed that the cars alternator was charging hard as soon as I turned bike ignition on-which means somethings obviously drawing current. It even slowed the cars engine rpm's down a little. So Im still puzzled. Im still suspect of the alternator.

So what happened here? If you had the bike battery being replaced by the car's, everything should have worked fine if the bike battery was the only problem......

Take 5 mins and check the rest of the system as per step 3 of this thread:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps

[theblacksmith]

The battery fried itself. Opened cover and was full of white corrosion with no acid. Cant believe it was showing 14 odd volts on the meter.
A lot of searching and pondering for nothing.

[FJRider]

So what happened here? If you had the bike battery being replaced by the car's, everything should have worked fine if the bike battery was the only problem......

Take 5 mins and check the rest of the system as per step 3 of this thread:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps

The original battery would still have been in place/connected (a basic short right there) ... removing the (old) battery before jump starting may have told more ... sooner ..

[theblacksmith]

So what happened here? If you had the bike battery being replaced by the car's, everything should have worked fine if the bike battery was the only problem......

Take 5 mins and check the rest of the system as per step 3 of this thread:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps

When we connected jump leads from car to bikes positive and negative main cables- everything powered up all good and it nearly started-there wasnt a good enough connection between jump leads to give starter full power obviously. When we put the batt from the gsx1400 everything worked fine and the battery was getting charged as well(showing 13.8v).

[FJRider]

The battery fried itself. Opened cover and was full of white corrosion with no acid. Cant believe it was showing 14 odd volts on the meter.
A lot of searching and pondering for nothing.

I would be interested in an expert (there are a few on here :shutup: ) opinion on the effect (if any) on batterys with the new "lights on" policy/law now in effect ... :yes:

[Bonez]

Just buy a bike older than 1980 and there isn't a problem ;).

[notme]

Well well - quite a few interesting things in this thread to ponder then!


The battery fried itself. Opened cover and was full of white corrosion with no acid. Cant believe it was showing 14 odd volts on the meter

It takes but a few electrons moving to show the volts on the meter, doesn't mean there's capacity to drive a load there unfortunately! Interesting way to think about it- one of the small N size batteries you put in garage door and car alarm remotes will read 12V on your meter just as well as a vehicle battery - doesn't mean it will start your vehicle though!

So when someone tries to test a vehicle battery by sticking a meter across it and proclaiming that the voltage is OK, you can see why that's a useless test now huh? :-)

Load testing is the only way to externally tell a battery's capacity.


The original battery would still have been in place/connected (a basic short right there) ... removing the (old) battery before jump starting may have told more ... sooner ..



Tried jump leads from a running car with the bike s battery and without the battery.....

I read the wording above as he tested with and without the original bike battery in place - which i think is correct (theblacksmith?). It seems the issue was the jumper leads. Totally unambiguous wording is important in technical situations...



I would be interested in an expert (there are a few on here :shutup: ) opinion on the effect (if any) on batterys with the new "lights on" policy/law now in effect ... :yes:

Piss all effect for most. For the majority of people, the majority of the time, the bike's engine is providing energy to the lights. Your battery only powers the lights when the bike is idling or the engine not running.

It might affect those who have bikes that will allow the headlights to be on without the ignition being on, because they could park up and leave the lights on.

[Bonez]

With a lot of stop start city riding it does have an effect. If you do putting the battery on a trickle charger overnight once a fortnight wont hurt. Obviously if you've got a lead acid battery you check the acid level. As a rule in general I get around 4-5 years out of mine.

[notme]

Oh theblacksmith - I would still heartily recommend you run through the chart I liked to - it takes a few minutes and will reassure you that your charging system is OK and that the battery was the only problem.

It would suck to find that the battery was a symptom of a dud charging system and kill the next battery, then have to get a third one, perhaps be stuck somewhere, and still have the original fault to deal to.

[notme]

With a lot of stop start city riding it does have an effect. If you do putting the battery on a trickle charger overnight once a fortnight wont hurt.

Has to be a LOT. But you're right - and an easy way for folks to get into that charger routine is to wire a socket to the bike. I have had one on every bike I have owned, it means you just park up and plug in the charger to a plug coming from under the seat or wherever - easy. It can also double as an acessory plug for phone chargers and air compressors and whatever you like - handy if you are the carry a complete camping setup on your bike type

[FJRider]

With a lot of stop start city riding it does have an effect. If you do putting the battery on a trickle charger overnight once a fortnight wont hurt. Obviously if you've got a lead acid battery you check the acid level. As a rule in general I get around 4-5 years out of mine.

In situations as that ... low amp riding lights ... instead of the headlights on (Which you are allowed) may be the go ...

[Bonez]

In situations as that ... low amp riding lights ... instead of the headlights on (Which you are allowed) may be the go ...Absolutely agree. On a lot of bikes pre 1986 it's probably the best thing to do. But wonder how many of the "enforcers" actually know of the year limitation these need to be installed on.

[FJRider]

Absolutely agree. On a lot of bikes pre 1986 it's probably the best thing to do. But wonder how many of the "enforcers" actually know of the year limitation these need to be installed on.

As I recall ... the headlight regulation applies to those bikes built after 1980.(the date the "enforcers" should all know that ... surely) Those bikes AFTER that time CAN have "Running lights" installed and used instead of the headlight.

[Bonez]

Let's hope they do ;). No mention of it in their public speels in the media or Police web site when the law came into effect. It was ALL motorcycles MUST have their headlights ON.

The reason I mentioned 1986 is that it's well known bike charging systems prior to around then weren't that great.

[theblacksmith]

Hi again - tested the charging system and she s all healthy. Have also learned that the battery has been in the bike for the last 6 yrs. It stood for a couple of years under a house and then I bought it. So its done pretty well Id say. That flowchart is great-thanks. Ive unplugged all connections and cleaned them and put Vaseline in there, re taped the wiring loom in some places where old tape had started to unravel itself-put some extra cable ties here and there, so hopefully when I get my new battery on Wednesday she s all good to go. Rego and rear tyre next.Lol.

[FJRider]

Let's hope they do ;). No mention of it in their public speels in the media or Police web site when the law came into effect. It was ALL motorcycles MUST have their headlights ON.

The reason I mentioned 1986 is that it's well known bike charging systems back then were shite.

Those that dont will be educated ... that includes joe citizen involved in an "incident" with a pre-1980 bike ... and rider ...

[Bonez]

Those that dont will be educated ... that includes joe citizen involved in an "incident" with a pre-1980 bike ... and rider ...Of course the rider was wearing a flouro vest.

[Bonez]

Hi again - tested the charging system and she s all healthy. Have also learned that the battery has been in the bike for the last 6 yrs. It stood for a couple of years under a house and then I bought it. So its done pretty well Id say. That flowchart is great-thanks. Ive unplugged all connections and cleaned them and put Vaseline in there, re taped the wiring loom in some places where old tape had started to unravel itself-put some extra cable ties here and there, so hopefully when I get my new battery on Wednesday she s all good to go. Rego and rear tyre next.Lol.That's the way. You'll have it sorted in no time.

[notme]

Hi again - tested the charging system and she s all healthy. Have also learned that the battery has been in the bike for the last 6 yrs. It stood for a couple of years under a house and then I bought it. So its done pretty well Id say. That flowchart is great-thanks. Ive unplugged all connections and cleaned them and put Vaseline in there, re taped the wiring loom in some places where old tape had started to unravel itself-put some extra cable ties here and there, so hopefully when I get my new battery on Wednesday she s all good to go. Rego and rear tyre next.Lol.

Onya - you fixed it, you didn't pay someone megabucks to do it, and you now know a bit more about this electrickery stuff :-)

[theblacksmith]

electrickery alrite haha!:rofl: