Increase the CC bracket for rego to "0->650cc"

[Oblivion]

I was thinking about this for a while. About how we should include 650cc bikes and less in the less expensive rego bracket. Because people who own bikes like the Hyosung GT650, Mom's Bandit, and the SV650, are being screwed by ACC and their rego costs, when their bikes have less horsies than the big 600cc I4 down the street.
Seriously....Its not like 50cc difference is the difference between life or death or anything like that.

That, or we could scrap the whole "CC" based rego system, and move onto a ~hp based one, where 0~60hp is one bracket, 60~120hp is the medium cost bracket, and 120hp onwards is the most expensive bracket.

This way, people with the most high cc, but low power bikes, don't get screwed over by the incompetence that we call ACC :yes:

Because it seems to me that there are alot of high cc supersport bikes on tardme recently, all under the same heading of rider "lost control"

Opinions anyone? :innocent:

Not sure if this is a repost or anything though... My limited brain couldn't find anything on it though :blink:

[Little Miss Trouble]

I was thinking about this for a while. About how we should include 650cc bikes and less in the less expensive rego bracket. Because people who own bikes like the Hyosung GT650, Mom's Bandit, and the SV650, are being screwed by ACC and their rego costs, when their bikes have less horsies than the big 600cc I4 down the street.
Seriously....Its not like 50cc difference is the difference between life or death or anything like that.

That, or we could scrap the whole "CC" based rego system, and move onto a ~hp based one, where 0~60hp is one bracket, 60~120hp is the medium cost bracket, and 120hp onwards is the most expensive bracket.

This way, people with the most high cc, but low power bikes, don't get screwed over by the incompetence that we call ACC :yes:

Because it seems to me that there are alot of high cc supersport bikes on tardme recently, all under the same heading of rider "lost control"

Opinions anyone? :innocent:

Not sure if this is a repost or anything though... My limited brain couldn't find anything on it though :blink:

I don't like your system :bleh:
My 599cc bike reportedly puts out 123ponies. If I get a dyno report to prove Yamaha were probably being optimistic can I go into the lower group? What if I subsequently add some extra go fast bits?

Never mind that the current system is a load of shit that we shouldn't be accepting anyway... Got both my renewal notices today, $198.46 worth of ACC levy for my car, and $297.70 for my bike, and I STILL haven't figured out how to use em both at the same time!

[Oblivion]

I don't like your system :bleh:
My 599cc bike reportedly puts out 123ponies. If I get a dyno report to prove Yamaha were probably being optimistic can I go into the lower group? What if I subsequently add some extra go fast bits?

Never mind that the current system is a load of shit that we shouldn't be accepting anyway... Got both my renewal notices today, $198.46 worth of ACC levy for my car, and $297.70 for my bike, and I STILL haven't figured out how to use em both at the same time!

You can easily change it. I think I was maybe being a bit too optimistic about the second group. Maybe having an upper limit of 90-100hp would be better?

[Little Miss Trouble]

You can easily change it. I think I was maybe being a bit too optimistic about the second group. Maybe having an upper limit of 90-100hp would be better?

My point actually was, which ever way you dick around with choosing the way to divide up the group is WRONG, ACC was never supposed to have variable levies based on 'risk'

Borrowed from another thread:

As soon as a govt of the past introduced variable levies based on actual cost (in the workplace, say) the Woodhouse Principle/s were compromised.
Woodhouse proposed that everything we do carries some sort of variable risk, that some individuals would be a higher risk than others doing the same job/activity...but overall, society benefited in ways that offset any increase in costs for specific activities. Therefore - one fee fits all, for the benefit of all.

[skinman]

yep I totally agree. No way a 1600cc Harley can go as fast as a 1000cc superbike, or even my 800 is slower than most IL4 650s

[Gubb]

Thing that still gets me is that a S40 Boulevard, or an SV650 is more expensive than any of the Supersport 600's.

You fucking hooligans.

[Oblivion]

My point actually was, which ever way you dick around with choosing the way to divide up the group is WRONG, ACC was never supposed to have variable levies based on 'risk'

Borrowed from another thread:

But, the way that ACC has turned into a super conglomeration of a corporation who only hired idiots and assholes with handwritten degrees on the back of old McDonalds boxes, the Woodhouse principles will never come back into effect. No matter how much preaching we, as bikers, will never get the same treatment as other road users. All they want is our money. That's fact.

Well, maybe if the next PM was a biker we might get treated better

[FJRider]

For those that can't reason their reason ... $$$$$$$$$$$$

[Oblivion]

For those that can't reason their reason ... $$$$$$$$$$$$

Like I said. Idiots and assholes :innocent:

[Ocean1]

What made you think there had to be a logical policy involved? It's a cash grab, pure and simple, the capacity cut-off is there 'cause it's easy and it's easily quantified. What matters is that all dem stinkin' rich big bike riders are relieved of some of that loose change.

[bogan]

What made you think there had to be a logical policy involved? It's a cash grab, pure and simple, the capacity cut-off is there 'cause it's easy and it's easily quantified. What matters is that all dem stinkin' rich big bike riders are relieved of some of that loose change.

yup, and they figured that owners of high cc bikes earn more money (it's actually the main component in their justification for the split), so can grab more money from them.

[crazzed]

and soon you will be able to pay the top bracket rego on your learners

[Oblivion]

and soon you will be able to pay the top bracket rego on your learners

170hp 250cc bike.

Where's mine? :drool:

[Little Miss Trouble]

Thing that still gets me is that a S40 Boulevard, or an SV650 is more expensive than any of the Supersport 600's.

You fucking hooligans.

Well they should've been smart and got rid of the 650 in favour of a 600 like I did then. More power yes, but also much better suspension and brakes than the sack of shit SV I used to own

[tigertim20]

I was thinking about this for a while. About how we should include 650cc bikes and less in the less expensive rego bracket. Because people who own bikes like the Hyosung GT650, Mom's Bandit, and the SV650, are being screwed by ACC and their rego costs, when their bikes have less horsies than the big 600cc I4 down the street.
Seriously....Its not like 50cc difference is the difference between life or death or anything like that.

That, or we could scrap the whole "CC" based rego system, and move onto a ~hp based one, where 0~60hp is one bracket, 60~120hp is the medium cost bracket, and 120hp onwards is the most expensive bracket.

This way, people with the most high cc, but low power bikes, don't get screwed over by the incompetence that we call ACC :yes:

Because it seems to me that there are alot of high cc supersport bikes on tardme recently, all under the same heading of rider "lost control"

Opinions anyone? :innocent:

Not sure if this is a repost or anything though... My limited brain couldn't find anything on it though :blink:

problem with your theory though is the whole power to weight, horsepower based is no better than cc based, as there are a few high horse bikes that need the horses cos theyre fucking heavy.

And lets go back to the basics.

ACC WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A NO FAULT SYSTEM.

People need to stop coming up with strategies for LETTING acc fuck us in the ass, and keep fighting. unles cars are ALSO going to have similar costs etc, then theres no reason for bikes to have them.

[crazzed]

170hp 250cc bike.

Where's mine? :drool:

soon some 650 twin will be able to be riden on ya learners you muppet:facepalm:

[Oblivion]

problem with your theory though is the whole power to weight, horsepower based is no better than cc based, as there are a few high horse bikes that need the horses cos theyre fucking heavy.

And lets go back to the basics.

ACC WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A NO FAULT SYSTEM.

People need to stop coming up with strategies for LETTING acc fuck us in the ass, and keep fighting. unles cars are ALSO going to have similar costs etc, then theres no reason for bikes to have them.

Unless we can overthrow the prick Nick Smith, we wont see anything good happening. I think that everyone agrees that he is the source of the problem? But I don't see him giving up anytime soon. There's just too little of us to be frank.

[FJRider]

Unless we can overthrow the prick Nick Smith, we wont see anything good happening. I think that everyone agrees that he is the source of the problem? But I don't see him giving up anytime soon. There's just too little of us to be frank.

So ... those that CAN vote for Nick Smith ... DONT ... problem solved ... :yes: :innocent:

[Oblivion]

So ... those that CAN vote for Nick Smith ... DONT ... problem solved ... :yes: :innocent:

Wait...He's elected? :blink:

Quick...Call a by-election :gob:

[Oblivion]

soon some 650 twin will be able to be riden on ya learners you muppet:facepalm:

I reserve my right to be a muppet Thank you :yes:

[blackdog]

soon some 650 twin will be able to be riden on ya learners you muppet:facepalm:

None that I am aware of.

Unless they are specifically restricted for learners as some LAMS bikes in Aus.

er6 for example comes in restricted and full hp forms over there.

Some 600 plus singles however (think BMW f650 etc) will be learner bikes, and in the top rego bracket. I can hear the money grubbers rubbing their hands together from here.

[Okey Dokey]

A house divided against itself will fall. Bikers should argue against the entire cc class separation, not trying to slip into cheaper categories, or argue hp ratios instead. Divide and rule is what ACC is doing. They have separated bikers from car drivers, now bikers turn against each other depending on ccs ? Fight the real enemy!

Bogan hit the nail on the head when he said the real reason higher cc bikes were targeted with the higher rates is because they were perceived to be owned by people on higher incomes, who presumably could afford to pay more. Wrong and unfair.

[Ocean1]

people on higher incomes, who presumably could afford to pay more. Wrong and unfair.

It's the single common feature of every one of the multitude of taxes we pay. Of course it's unfair, but it's the only way any government could ever get it's hands on over half of the country's wealth.

[Okey Dokey]

It's the single common feature of every one of the multitude of taxes we pay. Of course it's unfair, but it's the only way any government could ever get it's hands on over half of the country's wealth.

I should clarify, that I meant some riders have saved like hell on below average incomes, and gone without other stuff, to get their dream bike. The cc rating doesn't change my income, nor will I get a higher ACC payout in the form of wage compensation, in the event of an accident, just because I ride the bike I do. My post was a bit unclear on that point; thanks for picking up on that, Ocean.

Higher cc does not always equal higher income. Life is unfair, but it is never unfair to my advantage (Okey Dokey's Rule)

[Rhys]

Which is most likely to be ridden to its limits buy an inexperienced rider CBR250 or Honda gold wing, yet the old fossil is pay more acc :scooter:

[bogan]

Which is most likely to be ridden to its limits buy an inexperienced rider CBR250 or Honda gold wing, yet the old fossil is pay more acc :scooter:

yeh but the goldwing is about 8 ton init? can flatten a few buildings with one of those suckers :innocent:

you're correct though, the 51-250 injury rate is significantly higher than the rest

[Gremlin]

If you cared about the cost of rego (as in, the difference between classes, not the outrageous fees in total) then the answer is simple.

600cc sportsbike with a supercharger. :yes:

[\m/]

Or a 600 with a Busa swap.

[MSTRS]

Rego-based levies are bullshit and always have been. It's only now, with the splits and increases that we realise that.
Yes, we can only use one vehicle at a time, but that doesn't mean that nobody else can use one of yours when you aren't....
However, doesn't it upset you to know that your rego is a ticking meter - counting down to a zero balance - whether you use the thing or not?

[jasonu]

yep I totally agree. No way a 1600cc Harley can go as fast as a 1000cc superbike or a vespa or a tricycle

10characters

[johan]

<snip>... unles cars are ALSO going to have similar costs etc, then theres no reason for bikes to have them.

I paid registration for the van yesterday, 6 months, $300.

The breakdown was something like this:

$20 registration fee
$50 GST
$200 ACC
+ other stuff

I laughed out load.

[Murray]

I laughed out load.

I hope you laughed out your load in their faces!!!

[johan]

I hope you laughed out your load in their faces!!!

Whose face? The girl behind the counter?

There weren't any politicians around that I could interrogate unfortunately.

[Hitcher]

I thought New Zealand was supposed to be implementing the Aussie LAM standards? That system makes more sense to me than something arbitrarily based on engine size.

[Smifffy]

I thought New Zealand was supposed to be implementing the Aussie LAM standards? That system makes more sense to me than something arbitrarily based on engine size.

The LAM standards are for learner classes, not registration classes, unless they are also going to then change the legislation again to align the the registration classifications with the learner classes?

Yet more inconsistency and room for error and confusion in the NZ tangle of legislation.

Or have I missed something? :blink:

[Hitcher]

Or have I missed something?

The miss was mine. I forgot about the ACC engine size rego cost nonsense. Surprising, given that it was something that once got me really steamed up and also given that I've recently had to fork out about $530 for registration for 12 months.

ACC should not be allowed to get away with this, given that they don't record motorcycle accidents properly in the first instance and don't record accidents based on engine size at all.

[Cayman911]

or maybe people riding 125's not paying the same bullshit price as 600cc's

[James Deuce]

How about a a class action suit from the 650cc riders for the Government imposed depreciation on the easy to get along with 650cc bikes? There's a glut of them for sale, quite possibly due to the grossly unfair rego costs imposed for them being "big" bikes. I can't think of one 650cc bike on the market I wouldn't be happy for a learner to ride, except possibly for the more extreme supermotos.

My next bike is going to be either 600c or 1000cc plus. If I'm paying extra for over 600cc then I want to decent shot at doing a runner thanks.

[Ocean1]

How about a a class action suit from the 650cc riders ...

We wimped out on the much simpler option of simply refusing to pay the extra, what makes you think there's any chance we'd get tough AND organised enough to take it to court?

[JimO]

as much as i dont agree with the rise in levvies a mate recently crashed his duc, 1 helicopter ride, operation to put a bigarsed pin in his leg, nearly 2 weeks in hospital, couple of months physio and at least 6 months getting $1200 a week (80% of wages) from ACC, he has been riding bikes for many years but i doubt he has paid 5% of his injury costs to acc via levvies

[varminter]

It seems so unfair, I have two 500cc cylinders but I only use one at a time:innocent:

[pete376403]

as much as i dont agree with the rise in levvies a mate recently crashed his duc, 1 helicopter ride, operation to put a bigarsed pin in his leg, nearly 2 weeks in hospital, couple of months physio and at least 6 months getting $1200 a week (80% of wages) from ACC, he has been riding bikes for many years but i doubt he has paid 5% of his injury costs to acc via levvies

He could have done the same on a mountain bike (eg like Trevor Mallard) and not paid ANY percentage of his injury costs to ACC via levies.

[JimO]

He could have done the same on a mountain bike (eg like Trevor Mallard) and not paid ANY percentage of his injury costs to ACC via levies.

true that.................

[Mom]

I was thinking about this for a while...


Never mind that the current system is a load of shit that we shouldn't be accepting anyway...


yep I totally agree.

Horse power versus CC rating?

Of course big CCs will be bigger danger :yes:

Little Miss T, my 650 is FAR more dangerous than your 600 :yes: The way I ride it, and the power that it has, makes your bike a pale, learners, pussy bike :yes:


Thing that still gets me is ....You fucking hooligans.

Look, you Hornet riders have NO opinion on this matter! ( the lawn mowing man chewed up your fruit too btw) I hope to get something to you next week :yes:




What made you think there had to be a logical policy involved? It's a cash grab, pure and simple, the capacity cut-off is there 'cause it's easy and it's easily quantified. What matters is that all dem stinkin' rich big bike riders are relieved of some of that loose change.

Shut up! Stop talking sense!

[Mom]

Unless we can overthrow the prick Nick Smith, we wont see anything good happening. I think that everyone agrees that he is the source of the problem? But I don't see him giving up anytime soon. There's just too little of us to be frank.

Nics Myth, is a pawn/puppet of a government intent on pushing through its agenda. He is a smart man, who is well rewarded for his ability to deliver unfavourable policy with a staunch attitude. He has the hot port folios, in this government. I suspect he will either retire at ehe end of this term or push for a "higher" place in the next government.

He is not the source of anything, he is the face of the source. Please do NOT give him any kudos for policy!

[FJRider]

Horse power versus CC rating?

It is NOT one or the other ... :angry: The smaller cc bikes get their horsepower by spinning the engines over at 18,000 odd RPM. The mid range (600 and thereabouts) develop a little more torque ... but dont spin the engines over nearly as fast .... well some do ...

So ... those 27 HP Hyo 250's ... at around redline .. may well develop near that ... but if the rev's are down ... so is the HP ....

AND the drop off rate of HP is quite QUICK ... THEY DO NOT DEVELOP THEIR HP THROUGHOUT THE REV RANGE ...

The bit that MOST forget ... claimed (max) HP is usually around red-line ... but if the rev's drop off ... SO DOES THE HP. At a very steep rate ...




Of course big CCs will be bigger danger :yes:


Not ALWAYS ... and often ... not AT ALL ...

[miloking]

It seems so unfair, I have two 500cc cylinders but I only use one at a time:innocent:

Well i have four 250cc cylinders and ...guess what only use one at the time as well. Hmm maybe if you take out one of your spark plugs you can go for the under 600cc rego perhaps?

[MSTRS]

as much as i dont agree with the rise in levvies a mate recently crashed his duc, 1 helicopter ride, operation to put a bigarsed pin in his leg, nearly 2 weeks in hospital, couple of months physio and at least 6 months getting $1200 a week (80% of wages) from ACC, he has been riding bikes for many years but i doubt he has paid 5% of his injury costs to acc via levvies

Careful! Talk of that sort of thing is likely to have other bikers up in arms about how their levies are subsidising this chap....

[yungatart]

as much as i dont agree with the rise in levvies a mate recently crashed his duc, 1 helicopter ride, operation to put a bigarsed pin in his leg, nearly 2 weeks in hospital, couple of months physio and at least 6 months getting $1200 a week (80% of wages) from ACC, he has been riding bikes for many years but i doubt he has paid 5% of his injury costs to acc via levvies

The part of this guys rehab that is so expensive is his ongoing weekly compensation.
I know people who earn not much more than $1200 per MONTH, who are paying through the nose to license their 750. Hardly fair, given the huge discrepancy in wages, eh?
It also gives the lie to big bike owners being wealthy too.
The whole thing is a farce and still makes my blood boil.

[GPXchick]

Ho much was it before the price hikes came in. As i have only been riding since Feb. I bought my first rego last week. $211.00 for 6 months. Can anyone tell me what i would have paid before. I really don't find this price to steep. As i have not missed putting the $150 per week gas in my holden. My bikes $33 can get close to 490 km's. I'm sure the cost of rego compared to the gas i was spending will be GREAT.

[MSTRS]

The part of this guys rehab that is so expensive is his ongoing weekly compensation.
I know people who earn not much more than $1200 per MONTH, who are paying through the nose to license their 750. Hardly fair, given the huge discrepancy in wages, eh?
It also gives the lie to big bike owners being wealthy too.
The whole thing is a farce and still makes my blood boil.

Indeed.
This is the bit that most just don't seem to understand, when it comes to the split in levies based on engine size.

What we know is that there are far more crashes and moderate injuries on 250cc bikes than any other engine size. Stands to reason, since many/most of them will be relatively inexperienced riders, prone to cocking up more, are ridden in town/commuting and/or have not ridden long enough to develop that 'spidey sense'. We can also be reasonably certain that the riders of these smaller bikes do not have high incomes.
The next category (up to 600cc), is probably concentrated on the 'step-up' brigade...got their 6F and want more some power. These guys are a little older and likely earn more.
Over 600cc (includes all those Sporties + Fatboy Harleys that the professional-types playing at being badboys are attracted to) are ridden by longterm 6F holders, who are older and much more likely to be on higher than average incomes, and tend to account for the more serious injuries/deaths because they primarily occur at open road speeds.
I'm generalising a little, but the principle is sound.
The problem is, as YT said, if you earn more, earnings compensation is higher too. The farce comes in at this point...ACC's 4 separate funds.
Everyone pays $2 per $100 of income - this covers earnings compensation for injuries that occur outside of work - fair enough, earn more = pay more
UNLESS those injuries are a result of a road vehicle crash. In which case, payment comes out of the motor fund.
ACC get to have their cake and icing too. And we get ripped off.

[MSTRS]

Ho much was it before the price hikes came in. As i have only been riding since Feb. I bought my first rego last week. $211.00 for 6 months. Can anyone tell me what i would have paid before. I really don't find this price to steep. As i have not missed putting the $150 per week gas in my holden. My bikes $33 can get close to 490 km's. I'm sure the cost of rego compared to the gas i was spending will be GREAT.


Category Was: Will be:
Mopeds (up to 49/50cc) 58.97 129.24
Motorcycles (50 to 600cc 252.69 327.70
Motorcycles (600+cc) 252.69 426.92

(Vintage – over 40 years old 58.97 69.46)
Yes, you save heaps on gas, so that more than offsets things. BUT you could've saved gas by changing to a Corolla and paid the same rego as your Holden.

[FROSTY]

but guys they just don't care. And frankly with it being an election year and national being a shoe in they have no reason to care.
Now if some brightspark could actually work out a way to give them reason to care enough to pay attention we would be onto something.

[Usarka]

sniper rifle

[JimO]

The part of this guys rehab that is so expensive is his ongoing weekly compensation.
I know people who earn not much more than $1200 per MONTH, who are paying through the nose to license their 750. Hardly fair, given the huge discrepancy in wages, eh?
It also gives the lie to big bike owners being wealthy too.
The whole thing is a farce and still makes my blood boil.

na that comes to around 29k, his operation and hospital costs would have cost twice that i bet, his income was high as he works at a gold mine and had been putting in big hours. Funnily enough the ducati he had owned less than a year insurance paid out for a bike, helmet, jacket, boots,pants (around 17k) and his premium was around $600

[MSTRS]

na that comes to around 29k, his operation and hospital costs would have cost twice that i bet, his income was high as he works at a gold mine and had been putting in big hours. Funnily enough the ducati he had owned less than a year insurance paid out for a bike, helmet, jacket, boots,pants (around 17k) and his premium was around $600

Did you miss her point? Your mate was on about $75,000pa and paid $600ish on his rego. YT's acquaintance is on about $15,000pa and pays the same $600 on their bike. Since their earnings compo is paid from the motor fund, where's the parity?

[Swoop]

where's the parity?
Asking for parity, sense, intelligence or fairness from public servant’s or politicians is crazy-talk.

[JimO]

Did you miss her point? Your mate was on about $75,000pa and paid $600ish on his rego. YT's acquaintance is on about $15,000pa and pays the same $600 on their bike. Since their earnings compo is paid from the motor fund, where's the parity?

agreed but my point was that the 600ish his rego cost was a drop in the bucket compared to what he has cost acc

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was thinking about this for a while. About how we should include 650cc bikes and less in the less expensive rego bracket. Because people who own bikes like the Hyosung GT650, Mom's Bandit, and the SV650, are being screwed by ACC and their rego costs, when their bikes have less horsies than the big 600cc I4 down the street.
Seriously....Its not like 50cc difference is the difference between life or death or anything like that.

That, or we could scrap the whole "CC" based rego system, and move onto a ~hp based one, where 0~60hp is one bracket, 60~120hp is the medium cost bracket, and 120hp onwards is the most expensive bracket.

This way, people with the most high cc, but low power bikes, don't get screwed over by the incompetence that we call ACC :yes:

Because it seems to me that there are alot of high cc supersport bikes on tardme recently, all under the same heading of rider "lost control"

Opinions anyone? :innocent:

Not sure if this is a repost or anything though... My limited brain couldn't find anything on it though :blink:

that is the beginning of a good idea. Here's what I think is another: why have any banding at all? why not tax (and thats what a levy is) it according to use. Yep. at the pump.

I can perhaps see some justification (if the statistics support it) for a banding for something like small capacity vs large capacity: 125 and under one price, 126 and up another, but the current system is SO unfair, so unethical, such a blatant ripoff that it should, in my view, be done away with, and a fair system, based on the original Woodhouse report principles, instituted in its place.

/soapbox off.

[James Deuce]

agreed but my point was that the 600ish his rego cost was a drop in the bucket compared to what he has cost acc

So you'd rather throw badly injured people on the scrapheap then? Never forget that ACC is a profitable business that is one of the biggest investors in other large NZ businesses.

I can't believe you'd pick an "mate's" individual issue to try and demonstrate some imagined flaw in the ACC system. There isn't one that can't immediately be rendered minor by simply looking across the ditch at Australia's medical system. Go a bit further afield and the US system should put the utter shits up you. But no. You'd rather whinge about what your "mate" cost to fix. You qualify for that care and would get it if you need it. Horse people cost more to fix each on average than motorcyclists. The bill for Mountain Bikers is growing ever bigger, and DIYers are now estimated to cost ACC 750 million a year (up from 560 million 2 years ago) and you still can't understand that the average non-motorcyclist DIYer/home accident simply doesn't come close the level of contribution motorcyclists are forced to pay and yet qualifies for the same level of support?

Despite all this imagined "drain" on the taxpayer, ACC is STILL profitable as was repeatedly demonstrated by larger brains than mine including Government experts. Just not the politicians trying (and succeeding by looks of your rigidly deluded posts) to paint of picture of a destitute insurance business (which ACC has never ever been) needing to be sold in National's great state asset fire sale announced in this year's budget.

Where's the motorcycle protest group press releases yelling "We told you there was a master plan!"?

Hmmm?

[SMOKEU]

It's a well known fact that a 650cc bike is more dangerous than a 600cc bike, just like a 60hp diesel car is more dangerous than a 400hp petrol car. It must be true because the government told me so. The government would never lie to me, would they?

[JimO]

So you'd rather throw badly injured people on the scrapheap then? Never forget that ACC is a profitable business that is one of the biggest investors in other large NZ businesses.

I can't believe you'd pick an "mate's" individual issue to try and demonstrate some imagined flaw in the ACC system. There isn't one that can't immediately be rendered minor by simply looking across the ditch at Australia's medical system. Go a bit further afield and the US system should put the utter shits up you. But no. You'd rather whinge about what your "mate" cost to fix. You qualify for that care and would get it if you need it. Horse people cost more to fix each on average than motorcyclists. The bill for Mountain Bikers is growing ever bigger, and DIYers are now estimated to cost ACC 750 million a year (up from 560 million 2 years ago) and you still can't understand that the average non-motorcyclist DIYer/home accident simply doesn't come close the level of contribution motorcyclists are forced to pay and yet qualifies for the same level of support?

Despite all this imagined "drain" on the taxpayer, ACC is STILL profitable as was repeatedly demonstrated by larger brains than mine including Government experts. Just not the politicians trying (and succeeding by looks of your rigidly deluded posts) to paint of picture of a destitute insurance business (which ACC has never ever been) needing to be sold in National's great state asset fire sale announced in this year's budget.

Where's the motorcycle protest group press releases yelling "We told you there was a master plan!"?

Hmmm?

was just sayin thats all

[neels]

It's a well known fact that a 650cc bike is more dangerous than a 600cc bike, just like a 60hp diesel car is more dangerous than a 400hp petrol car. It must be true because the government told me so. The government would never lie to me, would they?
No, they just don't get their tax at the pump for the diesel so screw you on rego instead.

On a complete tangent, I refuse to believe the government give a shit about the environment when they rego and RUC small super efficient diesels to the point that they aren't viable to own, kinda fucked when we import all our fuel.

[SMOKEU]

No, they just don't get their tax at the pump for the diesel so screw you on rego instead.

On a complete tangent, I refuse to believe the government give a shit about the environment when they rego and RUC small super efficient diesels to the point that they aren't viable to own, kinda fucked when we import all our fuel.

That's what RUCs are for. If you have a close look, you'll see that the ACC levy is higher on small diesel vehicles than on petrol vehicles. This must mean that somehow slow, old diesels are more dangerous than high performance petrol vehicles.

On another note, apparently diesel vans are more dangerous than a 1000cc sports bike. Have a look at the licensing fees on that http://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicle/registration-licensing/fees.html

Any argument that the government has regarding vehicle safety and licensing fees is bullshit. Pay close attention to the "Goods truck/van/utility Private passenger Non-petrol driven - 1-3500kg GVM" and compare that to the "Motorcycle Petrol driven - 601cc and over".

The government was complaining that other road users have to subsidize the cost of motorbike riders binning it, so where is the justification that a private non petrol driven goods truck/van/utility should be taxed higher than a high performance car or bike?

[MSTRS]

That's what RUCs are for. If you have a close look, you'll see that the ACC levy is higher on small diesel vehicles than on petrol vehicles. This must mean that somehow slow, old diesels are more dangerous than high performance petrol vehicles.



No no no ...
The cost of petrol includes an RUC component and also an ACC component of 9.9c/l. Diesel has no such taxes at source, which is why they're levied as separate items.
The average petrol-driven car incurs around $200pa ACC levy on fuel use alone. Add that to it's ACC levy part on it's rego - you're now at around the same level as a diesel pays on rego alone.

Your +600cc motorcycle stills pays more than a diesel...because of the petrol component.

[SMOKEU]

No no no ...
The cost of petrol includes an RUC component and also an ACC component of 9.9c/l. Diesel has no such taxes at source, which is why they're levied as separate items.
The average petrol-driven car incurs around $200pa ACC levy on fuel use alone. Add that to it's ACC levy part on it's rego - you're now at around the same level as a diesel pays on rego alone.

Your +600cc motorcycle stills pays more than a diesel...because of the petrol component.

Whenever you buy a vehicle licence, you know that small sheet it comes on that shows you where all the funds are going? Diesels have a very high ACC levy as part of the licensing fees. I am still yet to see why diesels are more dangerous than petrol models in general.

It's like saying that a big bore Harley is faster than an R1 just because the engine is slightly bigger.

[MSTRS]

Whenever you buy a vehicle licence, you know that small sheet it comes on that shows you where all the funds are going? Diesels have a very high ACC levy as part of the licensing fees. I am still yet to see why diesels are more dangerous than petrol models in general.

It's like saying that a big bore Harley is faster than an R1 just because the engine is slightly bigger.

Comprehension isn't your strong point, eh? I know what you are trying to say, but it's not right.
I don't claim to know all the answers, but I'm looking at a car relicencing form right now, and the ACC levy is $198.46. If I add $200 (approx annual ACC petrol tax) I come up with $398.46. Which is getting close to what a diesel will be paying on it's rego. Don't forget the 15% GST on top.

[Oblivion]

Whenever you buy a vehicle licence, you know that small sheet it comes on that shows you where all the funds are going? Diesels have a very high ACC levy as part of the licensing fees. I am still yet to see why diesels are more dangerous than petrol models in general.

It's like saying that a big bore Harley is faster than an R1 just because the engine is slightly bigger.

I think the point that the government is trying to make is the fact that most diesel vehicles are 4WD/Trucks/Utes.....And since these vehicles have a high center of gravity more likely to roll, etc.

[SMOKEU]

I think the point that the government is trying to make is the fact that most diesel vehicles are 4WD/Trucks/Utes.....And since these vehicles have a high center of gravity more likely to roll, etc.

That's exactly the same as saying "All 1000cc bikes are faster than 600cc bikes".

The government really needs to sort their shit out and realise that not everything is black and white as they would like us to believe. They (politicians) basically put shit like this in the "too hard basket" and instead of putting some thought into it, they seem to all put their own idea on a piece of paper and pull it out of a hat like a raffle.

[JimO]

I think the point that the government is trying to make is the fact that most diesel vehicles are 4WD/Trucks/Utes.....And since these vehicles have a high center of gravity more likely to roll, etc.

i have owned and driven 4x4s since 1986 havnt tipped one over yet

[Oblivion]

That's exactly the same as saying "All 1000cc bikes are faster than 600cc bikes".

The government really needs to sort their shit out and realise that not everything is black and white as they would like us to believe. They (politicians) basically put shit like this in the "too hard basket" and instead of putting some thought into it, they seem to all put their own idea on a piece of paper and pull it out of a hat like a raffle.

And that's how they were elected ladies and gentlemen. Using the same methods as primary school children. :yes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

No, they just don't get their tax at the pump for the diesel so screw you on rego instead.

On a complete tangent, I refuse to believe the government give a shit about the environment when they rego and RUC small super efficient diesels to the point that they aren't viable to own, kinda fucked when we import all our fuel.

YES!!! 10 char

[javawocky]

...Now if some brightspark could actually work out a way to give them reason to care enough to pay attention we would be onto something.
Friday morning harbour bridge clip on fryup. Inbound lanes only.

[PrincessBandit]

I would love my 650 bandit to be in the "lower" bracket for rego.
Maybe if 650s were in the next one down maybe Balu wouldn't be selling his...:bye: