Help! Electrical stuff - DRZ400SM

[Ricardo S]

went for a ride last night and seemed to be good - there was one thing that kind of drawn my attention, sometimes on the motorway, it seemed that the engine was missing fire sort of but as i had the bike for such a short time i couldn't tell for sure.

this morning i started it up and all normal, rode from eden tce to hillsbourough, parked for about 30 min, started her up and went to one tree hill to meet a friend that was on auckland domain - yeah steven, i know - then rode to domain.

got there and turned the bike off while i was fiddling with the mobile phone and tried to start it again and nothing :blink: push-started it and all good, but then, the battery is not charging, it started to miss fire more and more until i stopped riding it. had to get it towed back home:facepalm:

i'll probably spend most of tomorrow reading and fiddling with the bike, if any of you guys have any ideas regarding what could be the problem i'd most appreciate some pointers.

I'm so hoping that its something small like a bad terminated cable or something and i can get back on the road tomorrow:yes:

Cheers,
Ricardo

[Taz]

Got a multimeter? If so start checking the basics like battery voltage, charging voltage etc. Plenty of "how to's" on google.

[Brian d marge]

don't even need a multi meter , just a 12v bulb and a holder , Ill draw picture , see attachment
if when you rev bike it get brighter all ok , if it doesn't, not charging.

if it gets brighter and pops then you need multi meter to check charging rate 14.4v or something like that
usually about 2v above battery voltage

But before u do that ,,,just have a look a earths and connections , all clean and tidy??

Stephen

[Ricardo S]

don't even need a multi meter , just a 12v bulb and a holder , Ill draw picture , see attachment
if when you rev bike it get brighter all ok , if it doesn't, not charging.

if it gets brighter and pops then you need multi meter to check charging rate 14.4v or something like that
usually about 2v above battery voltage

But before u do that ,,,just have a look a earths and connections , all clean and tidy??

Stephen

the bulb idea is very good, i was going to get mine (multimeter) from work and won't need it now:)
i found some more info here http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=627031

and it might be a way to go...

anyway, it will have to wait until tomorrow :(

thanks for the reply's, i'll update the thread as i get more info...


did some extra reading and it could be an issue with the stator...anyone knows a good place around auckland if i need to get it rewired?

cheers

[Brian d marge]

the bulb idea is very good, i was going to get mine (multimeter) from work and won't need it now:)
i found some more info here http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=627031

and it might be a way to go...

anyway, it will have to wait until tomorrow :(

thanks for the reply's, i'll update the thread as i get more info...


did some extra reading and it could be an issue with the stator...anyone knows a good place around auckland if i need to get it rewired?

cheers

Keep it simple

Using the bulb, ya have three wires from the stator, yellows a black and a green ( or something like that, In series, stator bulb earth reve the engine, bulb will get brighter possibly pop, all three yellows doing the same , stator ok

Multi meter across battery terminal 14 v rect reg ok

Stephen

[Ricardo S]

Keep it simple

Using the bulb, ya have three wires from the stator, yellows a black and a green ( or something like that, In series, stator bulb earth reve the engine, bulb will get brighter possibly pop, all three yellows doing the same , stator ok

Multi meter across battery terminal 14 v rect reg ok

Stephen

yeah, will check the connection terminations, and the stator wires, battery's dead so i'll jump start it and see what happens...

[wysper]

If everything else seems ok, even the battery, it can be worth getting the battery tested under load.
I had on the metered fine, but when you tested the battery under load it was fooked.
The friendly guys at Speed Tech here in Ham confirmed that for me.

[Ricardo S]

First thing this morning i measured the battery and it was reading almost 12v, the panel and lights were quite dim thou, couldn't start her up.

found some wires cramped under the seat and tested them, all giving little to no resistance (had to strip the bike a bit further to follow the cables)

tested the yellow cables from the stator - just resistance against ground to see if there was any short circuit - if i can remember right each wire was giving me about 500 ohms.


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HW6NDcj5cvocP0A2O0Op_C_BnEh9m9pMALGKb1cA3E8?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UEubRhHgf18/TbytReTYCAI/AAAAAAAAGOo/2IG-49wSpaw/s144/DSC03489.JPG" height="96" width="144" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/yutaka.rsa/Drz400sm?authkey=Gv1sRgCMCJkOj515GJXA&feat=embedwebsite">drz400sm</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CPqn-2xO9PdLU4zSzY-p1i_BnEh9m9pMALGKb1cA3E8?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_UEubRhHgf18/TbytVoIf2qI/AAAAAAAAGOs/xOOjMum0_9Q/s144/DSC03494.JPG" height="96" width="144" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/yutaka.rsa/Drz400sm?authkey=Gv1sRgCMCJkOj515GJXA&feat=embedwebsite">drz400sm</a></td></tr></table>

[CookMySock]

tested the yellow cables from the stator - just resistance against ground to see if there was any short circuit - if i can remember right each wire was giving me about 500 ohms.There should be a very high resistance, or rather, no connection at all from any stator wire to ground. Perhaps the star-wired stator might be centre-grounded but I didn't think so - if it was, then you would see about 1 ohm to ground from each yellow lead.

Sorry that was not very clear - stator wires to ground should be either infinite, or very low only one ohm or so.

All of the resistances between any pair of the yellow wires should be exactly the same.

All the resistances between any yellow wire and ground should be exactly the same.

If there are any unbalanced readings, then you have a stator fault.

What does the battery voltage go up to if you charge it overnight, and then it drop for one hour?

Somewhere on this site there is a regulator checklist.

[EB255GTX]

There should be a very high resistance, or rather, no connection at all from any stator wire to ground. Perhaps the star-wired stator might be centre-grounded but I didn't think so - if it was, then you would see about 1 ohm to ground from each yellow lead.

Sorry that was not very clear - stator wires to ground should be either infinite, or very low only one ohm or so.

All of the resistances between any pair of the yellow wires should be exactly the same.

All the resistances between any yellow wire and ground should be exactly the same.

If there are any unbalanced readings, then you have a stator fault.

What does the battery voltage go up to if you charge it overnight, and then it drop for one hour?

Somewhere on this site there is a regulator checklist.

Found that checklist just now, in fact I was googling for it to send to someone over on another bike forum which is how I came to find and join kiwibiker.co.nz :scooter:

Here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227432&d=1293653888

[Ricardo S]

Found that checklist just now, in fact I was googling for it to send to someone over on another bike forum which is how I came to find and join kiwibiker.co.nz :scooter:

Here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227432&d=1293653888

thank all you guys for the reply's! i did found this chart but it was too late, the bike was working :D it was good while lasted

took the battery to get it tested. they said the battery was bad cuz it was reading 12v and as soon as they put it under load it would drop to 5 to 2 volts. got a new battery, started her up and all seemed ok so i got all happy and made a n0.ob mistake. went for a ride and assumed it was all good.
the battery charge lasted for 1 and a half days :facepalm: and today in my way to work boom, it died =(


just came back from work, freaking long day! at the end had to push the bike back home, going up the bloody symonds street - btw, had a few riders going by and looking funny at me while doing it. hello you all :)

oh well, i have a job interview tomorrow morning and if all good in the afternoon i intend to get the check list and go step by step.

1st. take the battery to get charged
2nd. go to the job interview
3rd. check emails, etc
4th. wait for the battery, maybe strip the bike up and check the cables again
5th. wait for the battery - do some work on one of the servers
6th. go get tha battery, install it - and go through the checklist.

ahh i hope its not something really expensive otherwise the bike will have a holiday

[Ricardo S]

There should be a very high resistance, or rather, no connection at all from any stator wire to ground. Perhaps the star-wired stator might be centre-grounded but I didn't think so - if it was, then you would see about 1 ohm to ground from each yellow lead.

i think it was 500k ohms? gonna check it while i wait for the batt to get charged


Sorry that was not very clear - stator wires to ground should be either infinite, or very low only one ohm or so.

All of the resistances between any pair of the yellow wires should be exactly the same.

All the resistances between any yellow wire and ground should be exactly the same.

i think it was all the same and will check it again tomorrow :)


If there are any unbalanced readings, then you have a stator fault.

noooooo i hope it's not the stator or the regulator/rectifier


What does the battery voltage go up to if you charge it overnight, and then it drop for one hour?

can't charge it now... well i think if i find a source of 14v i might be able to charge it at home? mmm gonna google it

[Ricardo S]

new battery tested and foud faulty. got a new one, tested ok, i'm now going for a full electrical check!

[wysper]

new battery tested and foud faulty. got a new one, tested ok, i'm now going for a full electrical check!

fookin electrics. Can really do your head in. But you will have learnt heaps by the end of it.

[Ricardo S]

fookin electrics. Can really do your head in. But you will have learnt heaps by the end of it.

i am already!

went through the test and here's the results:

1st engine at around 2.5kRPM battery 11.8Volts
2nd engine idle R/R positive output to battery positive resulted in -.2V
3rd engine idle R/R negative output to battery negative resulted in -.2V
4th stator output resistance between yellow's resulted in 1.3 Ohms each
5th engine @ about 5k RPM output result in AC between yellow wires:

A to B about 96V
A to C about 96V
B to C about 100V

taking in to consideration that i secured the throttle with some keyring cords and that the multimeter i'm using is a cheap DSE one i'd say the results were too close to stop there and call the stator at fault.

6th Disconnected the R/R from the bike and using the diode testing mode as described on the "Fault finding flow chart for motorcycle charging systems";

positive multimeter connected to red output wire on the R/R and negative multimeter connected to yellow cable from the R/R resulted in no reading

negative multimeter connected to red output wire on the R/R and negative on each yellow resulted in 529V? i'm not sure what sort of scale is that multimeter using for the diode test...

negative multimeter to black output wire on the R/R and positive multimeter to each yellow resulted in no reading

positive multimeter to back R/R output and yellow wires resulted in ~530V? once again, in par with the previous strange results... might need a better multimeter?

[EB255GTX]

i am already!

went through the test and here's the results:

1st engine at around 2.5kRPM battery 11.8Volts
2nd engine idle R/R positive output to battery positive resulted in -.2V
3rd engine idle R/R negative output to battery negative resulted in -.2V
4th stator output resistance between yellow's resulted in 1.3 Ohms each
5th engine @ about 5k RPM output result in AC between yellow wires:

A to B about 96V
A to C about 96V
B to C about 100V

taking in to consideration that i secured the throttle with some keyring cords and that the multimeter i'm using is a cheap DSE one i'd say the results were too close to stop there and call the stator at fault.

6th Disconnected the R/R from the bike and using the diode testing mode as described on the "Fault finding flow chart for motorcycle charging systems";

positive multimeter connected to red output wire on the R/R and negative multimeter connected to yellow cable from the R/R resulted in no reading :ar15:

- now, i'll probably take it somewhere and see if a kind soul can confirm if it's faulty...

Bro,

what was the result of the diode test? You don't say...assuming it was all good?

and the voltage from each yellow wire to red output of the RR - you say no reading, what's that mean? 0V? Zero is still a reading that might show what the problem is....

[Ricardo S]

how could i make sure that the Regulator/Rectifier is faulty? any ideas anyone? and if someone knows a good place to source it at good price i'd most appreciate the heads up :)

[Ricardo S]

Bro,

what was the result of the diode test? You don't say...assuming it was all good?

and the voltage from each yellow wire to red output of the RR - you say no reading, what's that mean? 0V? Zero is still a reading that might show what the problem is....

hey mate, i edited the post - had to go away for a while in between thou :(

when i say no reading it means that the multimeter didn't register anything, as if the terminals were connected to nothing.

cheers

[Ricardo S]

i am already!

went through the test and here's the results:

1st engine at around 2.5kRPM battery 11.8Volts
2nd engine idle R/R positive output to battery positive resulted in -.2V
3rd engine idle R/R negative output to battery negative resulted in -.2V
4th stator output resistance between yellow's resulted in 1.3 Ohms each
5th engine @ about 5k RPM output result in AC between yellow wires:

A to B about 96V
A to C about 96V
B to C about 100V

taking in to consideration that i secured the throttle with some keyring cords and that the multimeter i'm using is a cheap DSE one i'd say the results were too close to stop there and call the stator at fault.

6th Disconnected the R/R from the bike and using the diode testing mode as described on the "Fault finding flow chart for motorcycle charging systems";

positive multimeter connected to red output wire on the R/R and negative multimeter connected to yellow cable from the R/R resulted in no reading

negative multimeter connected to red output wire on the R/R and negative on each yellow resulted in 529V? i'm not sure what sort of scale is that multimeter using for the diode test...

negative multimeter to black output wire on the R/R and positive multimeter to each yellow resulted in no reading

positive multimeter to back R/R output and yellow wires resulted in ~530V? once again, in par with the previous strange results... might need a better multimeter?

bump, edited post :)

[EB255GTX]

Well, that chart is showing the method to test your RR - I have used it many times and if it is telling you that the RR is broken then it is :-( Double check maybe? I've never seen a multimeter say 530V on diode test! it should read 0 and probably beep when you connect the probes together, and should give a voltage reading when connected to a diode (inside the RR).

[Ricardo S]

Well, that chart is showing the method to test your RR - I have used it many times and if it is telling you that the RR is broken then it is :-( Double check maybe?

yeah, i disconnected the battery now and probably will double check it tomorrow just to make sure.
one thing thou. how can i tell the RPM's if the bike does't have a meter on the panel? when i took the measurements for the stator i sort of guessed.




I've never seen a multimeter say 530V on diode test! it should read 0 and probably beep when you connect the probes together, and should give a voltage reading when connected to a diode (inside the RR).

I know! crazy stuff 530V :weird: maybe the scale is milivolts? then it would make some sense ~.5V but then, its not faulty...
can't really trust a $10 multimeter

http://www.oem-tools.com/upload/products_images/UT20B.jpg

btw, i hope your friend is having a better luck with his electrical issues :)

[EB255GTX]

btw, i hope your friend is having a better luck with his electrical issues :)

Yep, all sorted - the chart pointed him exactly to the problem, a badly connected earth wire at the RR plug :-) Last I heard he was off to a small town outside Frisco to see some woman! Maybe that's why he emailed me for "urgent" help hehehe

[Ricardo S]

Yep, all sorted - the chart pointed him exactly to the problem, a badly connected earth wire at the RR plug :-) Last I heard he was off to a small town outside Frisco to see some woman! Maybe that's why he emailed me for "urgent" help hehehe

luck him!:2thumbsup

[Ricardo S]

Then today i put it all back together and guess what? when i start her up, engine idle the battery is reading 13.5V+

anyway, i booked with motorcycle doctors for monday. just to do a general check of the bike including the electrical stuff and carb since i kind of repacked the muffler (as far as i can tell it didn't improve the noise level).

[racefactory]

Hey guys, same DRZ here and it turns out it still actually has this problem.

after a day using it, i pull into a gas station and it wouldn't start. bump started it and all good... it charged itself up and started again just fine a little later and in the morning next day. Good for another full day and then same thing- bump start it and off we go. Start it again and this time no luck, still flat. Bump start it but it's going quite poorly and the digital gauge is not displaying. Within 5 mins it continues to run more and more poorly as revs decrease until it is unusable and stops. Can not get it bump started. Had to get the bike lifted back home and then charge the battery on the charger. I'm afraid it's going to do the same thing again to me sometime soon.

Any ideas? unfortunately im not as clued up as ricardo with electrics so I'm truly stumped. Hopefully what I describe will point somewhat towards the problem but then again, you never know what it really is.

since it seems like it charges one moment and doesnt the next... is that more likely faulty wiring rather than a reg/rec issue?

[racefactory]

Ok so just got a multimeter. the bike is not charging. Start it up and still reading 12.7 or something.

Oh, the multimeter has 3 slots for the wires to go into: 10ADC, VQmA and COM. Which colour wire is supposed to go into which slot?

if the regulator is faulty, is it possible to buy any other regulator or do I have to get this model bikes' one?

What I don't get is when I got the bike from ricardo, it went flat after 2 days or so but then still somehow managed to charge itself up again? Does this sound like some sort of loose connection or could a R/R intermittently work like this?

help really appreciated!

[racefactory]

Yay ok found something that might be promising. Got the reg/rec off the bike; it has a connector with 3 yellow wires and another with a black and red wire. The black and red wire connector appears to be melted slightly and I had to yank it apart with pliers. Inside, it looks like the contacts are quite dirty and black.

What could cause this?

Now I am trying to figure out how to test the reg/rec itself, hopefully it is just wires that are gone?

[racefactory]

HA! ok found the red wire is KAPUT at the connector end.

I measured black wire at connector with all 3 yellow wires and it comes up with 530V like Ricardo measured. However the red wire has no reading. Next I cut the red wire down past the connector and after fiddling about I get a reading! Same 530V. This just means the connector is fucked and RR is ok?

The flow chart figures are totally different to this 530V we're getting. As long as there is a consistent measurement does this mean the RR is ok and it is just wiring???

Still don't get what would cause this melting in first place though? Any ideas?

[Brian d marge]

HA! ok found the red wire is KAPUT at the connector end.

I measured black wire at connector with all 3 yellow wires and it comes up with 530V like Ricardo measured. However the red wire has no reading. Next I cut the red wire down past the connector and after fiddling about I get a reading! Same 530V. This just means the connector is fucked and RR is ok?

The flow chart figures are totally different to this 530V we're getting. As long as there is a consistent measurement does this mean the RR is ok and it is just wiring???

Still don't get what would cause this melting in first place though? Any ideas?

Think Indian curry through a Scotsmans arse , you are trying to push a lot of stuff through a small hole , it will cause friction ( pre coffee so I cant remember ) heat

Honda cx and Gold wing had a similar problem , the connector from the Alternator corroded and the heat in the alt windings built up and and bingo

Electricity , easy aint it .....

Stephen

[racefactory]

awesome, made a new connector for the RR red and black wires and it worked! Thankfully the RR wasn't toast after all. Reading 13.5+ volts now :) . Thanks to Ricardo for doing most of the head scratching for me in this thread.