Back protector?

[Joe Blogs]

Hey,

I am in the market for a good back protector, I have Dainese Laguna Seca Pro leathers, I have seen those forcefield pro sub 4 ( http://www.forcefieldperformance.com/product/pro-sub-4-back-protector/2339 ) ones are ment to be pretty good, however its a lot of coin and are they any better than say a Alpinestars bionic one? http://www.alpinestars.com/store/productdetails.aspx?productid=650407&cs=1

I also quite like these Dainese ones http://www.dainese.com/us_en/motorbike/paraschiena-wave-con-scapole.html?cat=41 They have shoulder protection as well which cant be bad

Is it true that a Honeycomb protector is only good for one crash? Aka the Dainese one above.

Let me know your thoughts,
Cheers
JB

[rapid van cleef]

forcefiel are great, they scred top marks from Uks ride magzine for impact protection and comfort. i bought one. very comfy, dont really notice it at all unless it rides up yer back.

how much do you value yer spine in case of hitting a car, kerb etc in an off?

i wont ride without mine now

[Urano]

had a forcefield backprotector level 2.
awesome.

next buy will be with no doubt the sub 4.

[khabel]

Can you get the sub 4 with chest protection or will you need to wear 2 seperate lots of armor?

[KiwiNinja]

I've got a Knox AEGIS Back Protector and it's awesome! Also comes with a optional chest protector.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzuBr8ww-Y0
http://www.knox-armour.co.uk/product.html?product=aegisred

Qmoto (based in Hamilton) sell them.

http://www.qmoto.co.nz/gear-shop/knox/armour

What ever brand you get I would recommend one that covers your tailbone (coccyx).

[NZsarge]

I've got a Knox AEGIS Back Protector and it's awesome! Also comes with a optional chest protector.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzuBr8ww-Y0
http://www.knox-armour.co.uk/product.html?product=aegisred

Qmoto (based in Hamilton) sell them.

http://www.qmoto.co.nz/gear-shop/knox/armour

What ever brand you get I would recommend one that covers your tailbone (coccyx).
+1 for the Knox Ageis or Contour even.

[khabel]

According to the press releases the ForceField Sub 4 has the highest CE rating on the market and can absorb the most energy from impacts.

Was looking on ebay at them and I found this interesting....

"Only a few motorcyclists receive a direct blow to the spine causing serious injury; more spine injuries are probably due to direct blows to the shoulders and hips. The products commonly known as motorcyclists back protectors, if correctly designed and constructed may alleviate some minor direct impacts on the back, but WILL NOT prevent skeletal or neurological injuries to the spine in motorcycle accidents."

[Quasievil]

According to the press releases the ForceField Sub 4 has the highest CE rating on the market and can absorb the most energy from impacts.


Really, whats the highest CE then ?

[khabel]

For Knox the average force transferred to inner side of the protector may not exceed 9 kN.

The rating on the Forcefield Sub4 says it may not exceed 4 kN and in fact is actually 3.38

This is what I read on the internet so don't take it as fact :)

[Quasievil]

For Knox the average force transferred to inner side of the protector may not exceed 9 kN.

The rating on the Forcefield Sub4 says it may not exceed 4 kN and in fact is actually 3.38

This is what I read on the internet so don't take it as fact :)

Good on you for doing the research, the Knox is certified to the highest standard possible i.e EN1621-2 at this level it is as far as CE goes as good as any other, CE is NOT be all and end all, it just says it meets a standard.
Other factors come into it, I suggest you look at this video and make your own call, in my opinion the KNOX Aegis is the best on the market, it meets all standards as well as dominates all other brands on features and comfort.

check this out dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-INgZC8j8

you can get them on our site and I suggest the 8 Plate race, as it has better coccyx protection which many lack

cheers

[khabel]

Good on you for doing the research, the Knox is certified to the highest standard possible i.e EN1621-2 at this level it is as far as CE goes as good as any other, CE is NOT be all and end all, it just says it meets a standard.
Other factors come into it, I suggest you look at this video and make your own call, in my opinion the KNOX Aegis is the best on the market, it meets all standards as well as dominates all other brands on features and comfort.

check this out dude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-INgZC8j8

you can get them on our site and I suggest the 8 Plate race, as it has better coccyx protection which many lack

cheers

Thanks Quasievil, the article I was reading mentioned that the sub4 was EN 1621-2:2003 certified, not sure if that is better or worse than EN1621-2. I watched that video before, very informative


EDIT: Just found a good test article http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/Ride%20Magazine/Product%20test%20pdfs/6%20JUN08%20Back%20protector%20test.pdf

[mazz1972]

Anyone have any comments on the Alpinestars Bionic back protector?

[MaxCannon]

I've tested this twice http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/spardef121.aspx

Once at Pukekohe and once at Hampton Downs (about a month apart :facepalm: )
Didn't feel the impact either time.

Second accident I rolled / slid on my back from about 90kph to a stop and I was pretty surprised at not feeling the impact or coming away with any injury.

[Lurch]

MC news did a product test back a few years and rated the Forcefield L2 Pro as one of the best, not so much the Knox options (available at the time).

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/Ride%20Magazine/Product%20test%20pdfs/6%20JUN08%20Back%20protector%20test.pdf

[Quasievil]

MC news did a product test back a few years and rated the Forcefield L2 Pro as one of the best, not so much the Knox options (available at the time).

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/Ride%20Magazine/Product%20test%20pdfs/6%20JUN08%20Back%20protector%20test.pdf

Im not sure why as its not superior in anyway, infact in comfort and specifications its one of the worst on the market, see the video link above I posted a few days ago.
Magazine tests are not worth wiping your arse on in my opinion.:yes:

[Lurch]

Im not sure why as its not superior in anyway, infact in comfort and specifications its one of the worst on the market, see the video link above I posted a few days ago.
Magazine tests are not worth wiping your arse on in my opinion.:yes:

Yeah but the guy you linked is in love (or the pocket of) Knox, he appears to me to have a bias toward their kit in all of his reviews. The review has no scientific basis either, it's just a brief look at the way they fit which doesn't mean shit to how they perform when you hit the road.

[Quasievil]

Yeah but the guy you linked is in love (or the pocket of) Knox, he appears to me to have a bias toward their kit in all of his reviews. The review has no scientific basis either, it's just a brief look at the way they fit which doesn't mean shit to how they perform when you hit the road.

Agreed, he does however go over the basic attributes and clearly the KNOX is the winner, the Forcefield is found wanting in many areas, this is clear, so I dont understand how it was favoured so well by MCN, although clearly they have a relationship.
Worthy to note the MCN "test" was 2008 and most of KNOX new products where not out then, the Forcefield hasnt evolved in 3 years as I see it.

[Lurch]

Agreed, he does however go over the basic attributes and clearly the KNOX is the winner, the Forcefield is found wanting in many areas, this is clear, so I dont understand how it was favoured so well by MCN, although clearly they have a relationship.
Worthy to note the MCN "test" was 2008 and most of KNOX new products where not out then, the Forcefield hasnt evolved in 3 years as I see it.

Yeah it's a shame the Aegis wasn't around at the time of the testing the MCN did (not that their tests were any kind of real world guarantee).

I own a Forcefield Pro L2 but do like the Aegis' design I just couldn't find any independent testing to back up the claims that Knox makes.

[Quasievil]

I just couldn't find any independent testing to back up the claims that Knox makes.

What Claim you talking about ?

[Lurch]

What Claim you talking about ?

That they're the best of course!

[Quasievil]

That they're the best of course!

Well I have crashed about ummmm 7 times in a KNOX unit (racing) and I havent had a Back injury, so that plus the spec plus the features, I firmly believe they are.

[Urano]

Well I have crashed about ummmm 7 times in a KNOX unit (racing) and I havent had a Back injury, so that plus the spec plus the features, I firmly believe they are.

interesting.
and how many times have you crashed in other backprotectors having injuries?

[Quasievil]

interesting.
and how many times have you crashed in other backprotectors having injuries?

Twice in racing crashes, did Ribs and got a bad bruise on another occasion, it was a cheapy tho.

[Urano]

good.
so we obtain that on your experience the knox is exactly as good as all the others you didn't crash in, and all those are better than the cheap one that let you break your ribs...
;)

[Quasievil]

good.
so we obtain that on your experience the knox is exactly as good as all the others you didn't crash in, and all those are better than the cheap one that let you break your ribs...
;)

Read it how you like, I believe the KNOX is the best on the market , if you dont tell me why it isnt and why others and how others are better than it?

seen as youre being a smart prick about it

[Biggles08]

Knox all the way....crashed test dummy here :-)

[Urano]

Read it how you like, I believe the KNOX is the best on the market , if you dont tell me why it isnt and why others and how others are better than it?

i don't think it is not at all.
as i don't think others are better.

the only thing that i do not believe is the general and statistic value of personal experience on particular cases, especially regarding crashes.

we cannot ever know the exact conditions of your case, and we cannot ever deduce if the fact that it has worked for you is due to a superior conception or a lucky case.
it's the same about all that guys saying "i've crashed with an agv helmet and had no scratches at all. they are the best!".

so, like it or not, the only way to have a "normalized" comparison is to choose a standard testing procedure and go on that way.
keeping obviously in mind that there is the possibility that your future crash will be not covered by the testing procedure and the protection will not work for you only because it had a good result in tests.

that said, i have all the respect of your opinion, i'm happy you found something that fits your needs so well and considering your experience, way larger than mine, i'd surely go to take a look at it for my next bp.

but, if you want my opinion, i never found the "hard surface" more convincing than the soft one...

[ducatisl]

Forcefield armour harnesses energy, slows it down and manipulates it into a lesser force, before it hits your body. This is what all armour should do but independent tests prove this not to be so.
Nitrex
This patented technology allows protection evenly across it surface. Most hard shell/plastic protectors will perform differently across its surface. You never know where the impact will strike!

Perceptions:

Hard Armour
As it is hard, it protects, right?

Wrong! It has very little ability to absorb, or slow down the energy of an impact.
It is widely used as it is cheap to manufacture and it plays on the perception of ‘because it’s hard it must be doing a good job’. This is just so wrong. It is also sweaty, uncomfortable and can crack, causing further injury in a crash. To back this up you can use a modern day example of a crumple zone on a car, designed to slow the impact energy down. Protecting the people inside the car.

So, crumple zones/honeycomb type systems are good for body armour? Well, only as far as one impact goes. After the initial impact the protection they afford is greatly reduced as the honeycomb cannot recover to its original shape. We all know that with motorcycle accidents it is never just one impact.

Repeat Performance
Multiple impacts are not good for the vast majority of armour on the market. Forcefield armour has been designed to withstand multiple impacts. FORCEFIELD use a special product that they have developed – NITREX. This product can absorb multiple impacts and then return to its original form. It virtually lasts for years.

Most armour types deteriorate after an impact making it un-usable and ready for the bin – but not Forcefield.

Our research shows that people do not throw hard armour/honeycomb types away after a crash (as they should); instead they carry on using it - yet now it is not fit for purpose.

Take it a step further - in a serious high speed crash where multiple strikes take place in the same incident, normal armour is getting weaker, at the time you need it to be strong.
Forcefield armour is as strong at the end of the crash as it was at the beginning. Giving the wearer the best possible chance of escaping injury.





Testing Standards:
CE standards.
Forcefield pride themselves at passing the CE test at Levels other companies can only dream about. FORCEFIELD Body Armour is subjected to CE type examination testing and certification by SATRA - A European Notified Body (reference number 0321) for personal protective equipment (PPE). We understand a lot of manufacturers claim figures, many of which cannot be substantiated, or proven. Here at Forcefield we are different.
Approved to EN1621-2:2003 & EN340:2003

The CE test standards are regarded as the world’s most in-depth and rigorous standards. From day one, FORCEFIELD have guided and in some cases been pivotal in pushing standards further and making sure product in the market place continues to improve. This is something they are extremely proud of, and will continue to work with.


What is the CE test? In the case of the back protector.....
A force of 50KJ (about the same force of a house brick dropped from 2 metres) is applied to a back protector, and the transferred energy (e.g. the force that hits your body) is measured.
The CE level 1 test is passable at equal to or less than 18kn. The Level 2 test, gets harder- and must pass at equal to or less than 9kn.
Our new Pro Sub 4 Back protector, has smashed the competition by independently passing at 3.38 kn the world best performing back protector! Again Forcefield have pushed the boundaries of protection standards.

Is all armour CE Tested?
We know of many sub standard protectors on the market.

Important-
If a product is called a guard, pad, or shield, the chances are it has not passed the CE test and cannot lawfully carry the CE mark as a protector. More than likely it will have a CE mark as it passes as a toy! These should not be sold as protection, they do not pass the standards, and do not perform.

An important point to add is that every single piece of Forcefield armour passes the CE test, it is widely known that in some cases other manufacturers would pass one piece of armour, e.g. the coccyxes in a pair of impact shorts, yet all other armour in the short would be cheap and sub standard. As the garment had one piece of armour passed, it would carry the CE label.

if you would like to see just how good Forcefield is, go to the following link for a short video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhgUiSpL5s

FEATURES:
• The worlds first Motorcycle back protector to transmit less than 4kn when subjected to the standard CE test
• Removable & washable outer cover
• CE Level 2 Protection - Highest Possible
• RPT (Repeat Performance Technology)
• Comfortable and non restrictive
• Flexible
• Breathable
• Moulds to body shape
• Adjustable waist and shoulder straps
• Multi Sport use


[

[Elmer]

Just got back into riding after a few years of forced lay-off! Bought a Forcefield Back Protector after pretty extensive research. According to all the test reports I've seen they by far absorb more energy than any of the others. I have to say it is extremely comfortable and I'm very pleased with it.

[Quasievil]

Forcefield armour harnesses energy, slows it down and manipulates it into a lesser force, before it hits your body. This is what all armour should do but independent tests prove this not to be so.
Nitrex
This patented technology allows protection evenly across it surface. Most hard shell/plastic protectors will perform differently across its surface. You never know where the impact will strike!

Perceptions:

Hard Armour
As it is hard, it protects, right?

Wrong! It has very little ability to absorb, or slow down the energy of an impact.
It is widely used as it is cheap to manufacture and it plays on the perception of ‘because it’s hard it must be doing a good job’. This is just so wrong. It is also sweaty, uncomfortable and can crack, causing further injury in a crash. To back this up you can use a modern day example of a crumple zone on a car, designed to slow the impact energy down. Protecting the people inside the car.

So, crumple zones/honeycomb type systems are good for body armour? Well, only as far as one impact goes. After the initial impact the protection they afford is greatly reduced as the honeycomb cannot recover to its original shape. We all know that with motorcycle accidents it is never just one impact.

Repeat Performance
Multiple impacts are not good for the vast majority of armour on the market. Forcefield armour has been designed to withstand multiple impacts. FORCEFIELD use a special product that they have developed – NITREX. This product can absorb multiple impacts and then return to its original form. It virtually lasts for years.

Most armour types deteriorate after an impact making it un-usable and ready for the bin – but not Forcefield.

Our research shows that people do not throw hard armour/honeycomb types away after a crash (as they should); instead they carry on using it - yet now it is not fit for purpose.

Take it a step further - in a serious high speed crash where multiple strikes take place in the same incident, normal armour is getting weaker, at the time you need it to be strong.
Forcefield armour is as strong at the end of the crash as it was at the beginning. Giving the wearer the best possible chance of escaping injury.





Testing Standards:
CE standards.
Forcefield pride themselves at passing the CE test at Levels other companies can only dream about. FORCEFIELD Body Armour is subjected to CE type examination testing and certification by SATRA - A European Notified Body (reference number 0321) for personal protective equipment (PPE). We understand a lot of manufacturers claim figures, many of which cannot be substantiated, or proven. Here at Forcefield we are different.
Approved to EN1621-2:2003 & EN340:2003

The CE test standards are regarded as the world’s most in-depth and rigorous standards. From day one, FORCEFIELD have guided and in some cases been pivotal in pushing standards further and making sure product in the market place continues to improve. This is something they are extremely proud of, and will continue to work with.


What is the CE test? In the case of the back protector.....
A force of 50KJ (about the same force of a house brick dropped from 2 metres) is applied to a back protector, and the transferred energy (e.g. the force that hits your body) is measured.
The CE level 1 test is passable at equal to or less than 18kn. The Level 2 test, gets harder- and must pass at equal to or less than 9kn.
Our new Pro Sub 4 Back protector, has smashed the competition by independently passing at 3.38 kn the world best performing back protector! Again Forcefield have pushed the boundaries of protection standards.

Is all armour CE Tested?
We know of many sub standard protectors on the market.

Important-
If a product is called a guard, pad, or shield, the chances are it has not passed the CE test and cannot lawfully carry the CE mark as a protector. More than likely it will have a CE mark as it passes as a toy! These should not be sold as protection, they do not pass the standards, and do not perform.

An important point to add is that every single piece of Forcefield armour passes the CE test, it is widely known that in some cases other manufacturers would pass one piece of armour, e.g. the coccyxes in a pair of impact shorts, yet all other armour in the short would be cheap and sub standard. As the garment had one piece of armour passed, it would carry the CE label.

if you would like to see just how good Forcefield is, go to the following link for a short video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMhgUiSpL5s

FEATURES:
• The worlds first Motorcycle back protector to transmit less than 4kn when subjected to the standard CE test
• Removable & washable outer cover
• CE Level 2 Protection - Highest Possible
• RPT (Repeat Performance Technology)
• Comfortable and non restrictive
• Flexible
• Breathable
• Moulds to body shape
• Adjustable waist and shoulder straps
• Multi Sport use


[

Fuck what a load of copy n pasted force field dribble :yes:

[steve_t]

Knox Aegis transmits less than 6kN in the CE test, gives better scapula protection and is not 2 inches thick.
Doesn't it make sense that armour have an energy absorbing body of material that's covered by a more rigid shell? Eg helmets.

[Lurch]

Knox Aegis transmits less than 6kN in the CE test, gives better scapula protection and is not 2 inches thick.
Doesn't it make sense that armour have an energy absorbing body of material that's covered by a more rigid shell? Eg helmets.

Yeah but helmets are designed to crack (resulting in their throw away recomendations post crash) , the average Knox armour is clearly not designed to disperse energy by breaking/fracturing as it's built like a brick shithouse

[steve_t]

Yeah but helmets are designed to crack (resulting in their throw away recomendations post crash) , the average Knox armour is clearly not designed to disperse energy by breaking/fracturing as it's built like a brick shithouse

I thought most of the protection of a helmet came from the lining material compressing. Polystyrene only compresses once so after an impact, it no longer protects as well.
Actually, thinking about back protectors, I would think that given the same thickness of the soft stuff, the harder shell would help spread the force over a larger area and reduce the transmitted force. I'd be interested to see what would happen to the Sub4 if it had a thin hard shell on the outside of it's 2 inches of Nitrex. Not sure how people fit that under their leathers comfortably

[gatch]

I thought most of the protection of a helmet came from the lining material compressing. Polystyrene only compresses once so after an impact, it no longer protects as well.
Actually, thinking about back protectors, I would think that given the same thickness of the soft stuff, the harder shell would help spread the force over a larger area and reduce the transmitted force. I'd be interested to see what would happen to the Sub4 if it had a thin hard shell on the outside of it's 2 inches of Nitrex. Not sure how people fit that under their leathers comfortably

I was under the impression the hard outer of the helmet is to prevent penetration ?

I have read some material, where softer plastic shelled helmets actually transmitted less energy to the head inside (than stiff shell), as the shell absorbed some of the impact through it deforming..

Off topic I know, but $$$ helmet does not necessarily mean better protection. Wish I had of read more BEFORE I spent $800 on a helmet.

[Rcktfsh]

Anyone have any comments on the Alpinestars Bionic back protector?

I use one, find it very comfy fits snugly and normal Alpine Stars high quality.

[Pussy]

Anyone have any comments on the Alpinestars Bionic back protector?

Yup! VERY comfy!
At this stage I've worn mine lots, just not tried it for it's intended purpose.
Alpinestars is good stuff!

[Desert Eagle]

http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/A8PRJNNBJ/title/alpinestars-bionic-2-protection-jacket

CE level 2 protection, and the extra bits aswell for $250. (on special from $400)

Any opinions? apparently the back protector can be removed (according to a video review ive seen).

I figure a back protector should be on my list of things to get, Im just new to the motorcycle game and a little unsure.

[Quasievil]

http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/A8PRJNNBJ/title/alpinestars-bionic-2-protection-jacket

CE level 2 protection, and the extra bits aswell for $250. (on special from $400)

Any opinions? apparently the back protector can be removed (according to a video review ive seen).

I figure a back protector should be on my list of things to get, Im just new to the motorcycle game and a little unsure.

Make sure it will fit under your other gear, i.e jacket.

FYI Knox Aegis back protectors are reduced in price down to $295:yes:

[Gremlin]

Ok, so I'm not quite the dummy Mr Biggles is, but a vote for Knox here, using an Aegis 8R (I think) and the chest armour.

Had a lowside around 70kph, landing on my hip and chest, almost no marks or pains afterwards. Hip was a bit sensitive, but not much armour there.

A tumble after getting off the bike at 100kph, literally felt like a washing machine spin cycle. Zero marks/pain/etc and felt fine right afterwards.

I would always say you should be wearing back AND chest armour...