Hone versus Brash on Close Up

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

On TV1 Close up now - very interesting to watch.

For a non-local, does taghua (sp?) mean "shut up"?

It is being said a lot.

[riffer]

tai hoa.

It means wait a second.

[riffer]

I think Hone just summed it up though.

It comes down to Rangatiratanga versus Kawanatanga.

And until we decide which version of the treaty our country is based on we'll keep arguing about it.

I wouldn't vote for either of them though.

[Mully]

It comes down to Rangatiratanga versus Kawanatanga.


Well, that's what I've been saying for ages.

*ahem*

[schrodingers cat]

Hone is spanking him

(Please note that the view above does not constitute an endorsement of either parties politics)

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

It comes down to Rangatiratanga versus Kawanatanga.

Well in all of my six years in NZ I have not heard that before (and I have attempted - obviously rather badly - to understand all the treaty issues since I got here).

That makes loads of sense, about the two translations of the same treaty. No wonder there is so much (lost) time and effort trying to sort it out.

Must say though, from a personal point of view, that "the same rights for all" is the way NZ needs to go to actually progress in the modern world. Sort out the grievances, for once and all, and move on. Always focusing on the past is unhealthy.

That said, I wouldn't vote for Brash - too hard line.

[nosebleed]

Hone is spanking him

(Please note that the view above does not constitute an endorsement of either parties politics)

To keep it in context though, Brash could get spanked by questions from a primary school kid.

[Mental Trousers]

To keep it in context though, Brash could get spanked by questions from a primary school kid.

Don Brash has never been good when it comes to debating. However, Hone the Wanker was born to argue.

[ducatilover]

Don Brash has never been good when it comes to debating. However, Hone the Wanker was born to argue.

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[oldrider]

I think Hone just summed it up though.

It comes down to Rangatiratanga versus Kawanatanga.

And until we decide which version of the treaty our country is based on we'll keep arguing about it.

I wouldn't vote for either of them though.

Well spotted that man! :niceone:

I will listen to what Brash (and the others) have to say ... before the election and then decide my vote, as usual. :brick:

I will vote "NO" to MMP and "YES" to "STV" (if they actually give us that option)

I thought Brash was naive fronting against (streetwise) Hone with a totally incompetent interviewer like Sainsbury controlling the "interview/debate/whatever?"!

Hone took over the "debate" and ran it to his own agenda, while Brash was made to look like a court jester on steroids, even though he (Brash) talked the most sense!

Don Brash should get a decent (short) haircut and personal presentation coach before he utters another word or shows his face in public again, let alone front in any debate! :facepalm: (currently not your best public image)

Harawera? IMHO ... Homegrown terrorist, held temporarily in political chains :ar15: Watch this space!

[Okey Dokey]

I didn't see tonight's show, but years ago when Brash was up against Clark on telly, his bumbling manner and old-world courtesies were popular with some.

[Laava]

Don't fret tho, bet both of them will forget to turn up and vote!

[PrincessBandit]

tai hoa.

It means wait a second.

Interestingly enough the only other person I've ever heard use the expression tai hoa was my dad. He used to use it quite a bit, from memory. Buggered if I know whether he had any Maori in him - don't think so - but it was weird hearing a Maori fulla say it so many times tonight!!


Unfortunately I didn't get to see the whole debate as I had to go out, but it was:corn: for the first part I saw. Did it improve in the second part at all?

Personally I don't like either of them very much, but was still open to hearing what they had to say. Sadly it just seemed to be pot kettle pot kettle pot...

[Oblivion]

I enjoyed how blunt Brash was." Do you believe that Maori have a place in Politics?". Answer? No. Or something along those lines. Can't remember exactly..

[PrincessBandit]

I enjoyed how blunt Brash was." Do you believe that Maori have a place in Politics?". Answer? No. Or something along those lines. Can't remember exactly..

It was: Q "do you do believe Maori have a special place in this country?"
A (after skipping a couple of heartbeats) "no"

[Scouse]

They are both fookin gormless coonts

[trustme]

Hone is always telling us what he wants, he never seems to be able to tell us how to achieve it. Long on rhetoric , short on specifics.
Brash should insist on a rerun dealing with the economy & Hone would be shown up for the shallow mouth that he really is.
Brash may be looking for profile but debating with Hone on maori issues alone is only ever going to leave him coming second.

[Banditbandit]

Hone is always telling us what he wants, he never seems to be able to tell us how to achieve it. Long on rhetoric , short on specifics.
Brash should insist on a rerun dealing with the economy & Hone would be shown up for the shallow mouth that he really is.
Brash may be looking for profile but debating with Hone on maori issues alone is only ever going to leave him coming second.

Hmmm ... that was an interesting play by Hone - He knows he can't take on Don Brash on economic issues .. so he didn't try. Not because he doesn't have an economic position - just can't argue it strongly against a hardliner like Brash.

As Oldrider says, Hone took over .. forced Brash to talk treaty and ethnic issues - and made him look a prat.

[MisterD]

As Oldrider says, Hone took over .. forced Brash to talk treaty and ethnic issues - and made him look a prat.

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

[scissorhands]

I spoke with a moko wearing woman last night re Mana Party.

Hone wouldn't be in the position he is today, if it wasn't for Sharples and Turia turning red coat with the Nats.

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

[short-circuit]

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

You read that shite as well as the shite in here? Glutton for punishment.

[short-circuit]

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

And right wingers secretly hate democracy

[Edbear]

My five year old grandson argues better...

[MisterD]

You read that shite as well as the shite in here? Glutton for punishment.

I read that shite, and Whaleoil, the Stranded, Dim-post, Kiwipolitico...don't you find that commentary and opinion is more useful when you know the bias that's been applied?

[MisterD]

Hone wouldn't be in the position he is today, if it wasn't for Sharples and Turia turning red coat with the Nats.

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

Which is all fair enough, but obviously some Maori aren't smart enough to learn from the Greens' example that if you align only with the Labour party they'll take you for granted and give you nothing.

It seems to me that Hone speaks for a percentage of Maori that would rather stick to their absolutist "principles" and chuck insults when they get nothing than compromise a bit and actually achieve some progress.

Tariana got her Whanau Ora thing through this government. Now, I don't understand it, but the point is that the Maori Party have acheived policy focussed on changing outcomes for Maori, I assume framed around Maori cultural differences, as part of a National Party lead government.

So, by all means bash Pita and Tariana for coming up with a crap policy that doesn't work (if that's the case) but it doesn't seem valid to bash them for joining the government in an attempt to make progress unavailable "outside the tent pissing in".

[Shadowjack]

Now, I don't understand it, but the point is that the Maori Party have acheived policy focussed on changing outcomes for Maori, I assume framed around Maori cultural differences, as part of a National Party lead government.
And that is an interesting point: after quickly casting my very imperfect memory over the last thirty-odd years, my observation is that the most progress in the Parliamentary and policy fields for Maori issues seems to have been made under National Governments.
Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

[oneofsix]

the Aussie desert race on the sports channel was good :yes:

BTW which election is Hone running in, I see he thinks Osama was a freedom fighter so thought he might be running in the Al Qada bi-election :corn:

[Banditbandit]

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

Absolutely. Neither of them are likely to convince each other's voters to change to their party ...

[Banditbandit]

And that is an interesting point: after quickly casting my very imperfect memory over the last thirty-odd years, my observation is that the most progress in the Parliamentary and policy fields for Maori issues seems to have been made under National Governments.
Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

Yes, you make a very valid point. National Governments (primarily lead by Bolger abnd Graham) have put huge amounts of money into Treaty settlements and Māori issues over the years - millions and millions more than Labour ...

But the perception of votors doesn't square with that reality ...

And getting people to vote for you is the art of manipulating perceptions ...

[MisterD]

Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

If there's one word that sums up John Key over the last few years, "courageous" isn't it.