Government eyes cuts to KiwiSaver contributions

[White trash]

Surprise, surfuckenprise.

So, "Here's a great deal to get you all saving NZ. We'll even contribute savings ourselves to make it more attractive and get you signed up. Then, we'll pull our contributions and you're all locked in with nowhere to go"

Nice.

[scissorhands]

How the hell do we trust them when they pull shit like that?

[oneofsix]

but wait there will be more. Wait until they tax you on receiving the payouts when you retire.

[MisterD]

Surprise, surfuckenprise.

So, "Here's a great deal to get you all saving NZ. We'll even contribute savings ourselves to make it more attractive and get you signed up. Then, we'll pull our contributions and you're all locked in with nowhere to go"

Nice.

When you accept one party's unaffordable election bribe, you have only yourself to blame if another party decides to bin it...

[avgas]

Anyone got a linky?

I would be surprised if they can pull out easily and we cant. I suspect that would require a law change - which means in the interim if they wanna do it, in theory so could we.

Or am I dreaming that our country doesn't have a corrupt government.

[oneofsix]

Anyone got a linky?

I would be surprised if they can pull out easily and we cant. I suspect that would require a law change - which means in the interim if they wanna do it, in theory so could we.

Or am I dreaming that our country doesn't have a corrupt government.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4963041/Government-may-cut-its-KiwiSaver-contribution

[Str8 Jacket]

Anyone got a linky?

I would be surprised if they can pull out easily and we cant. I suspect that would require a law change - which means in the interim if they wanna do it, in theory so could we.

Or am I dreaming that our country doesn't have a corrupt government.

The Govt of the day can and will do whatever they please. Remember - "we" voted them in.....

[avgas]

If they cut the $20 tax cut it would save $4b
..
no wait in the article it says...
Scrapping it completely would save the Government an estimated $660 million to 700m a year, but it may opt for a smaller cut by tighter targeting.

So that means less than 1/4 of the country is on kiwisaver????

[White trash]

So that means less than 1/4 of the country is on kiwisaver????

Well by estimation, half of the country are kids. So that's half the workforce. Pretty respectable scam if you ask me.

[Spearfish]

Did kiwi saver work out to be a bigger return than paying off a mortgage?.

I thought the only reason to sign up was the grand booster?

[avgas]

Did kiwi saver work out to be a bigger return than paying off a mortgage?.
I thought the only reason to sign up was the grand booster?
Average was -3% p/a last time I checked. So yeah without the $1K you would end up less in the hand in the long run.

[White trash]

Average was -3% p/a last time I checked. So yeah without the $1K you would end up less in the hand in the long run.

Well a mortgage is at least 6% in interest so assuming zero capital gain you're twice as worse off.

Fucks sake. Is there any way, for an average one income family, on a modest income in New Zealand to get ahead?

No?

Didn't think so.

I'ma have another bourbon and shoot some cans off the top of my fence.

[oneofsix]

Well a mortgage is at least 6% in interest so assuming zero capital gain you're twice as worse off.

Fucks sake. Is there any way, for an average one income family, on a modest income in New Zealand to get ahead?

No?

Didn't think so.

I'ma have another bourbon and shoot some cans off the top of my fence.

Of course the average guy/gal can't get ahead, it's not the capitalist way you got to be a shark to get ahead.
We when you retire, because you didn't pay off the whole mortgage and you haven't got Kiwisaver the bank forecloses. So now you have no money and no where to live.
pass the Bourbon.

[Hopeful Bastard]

How the hell do we trust them when they pull shit like that?

Easy. Dont get KiwiSaver :)

Im Opting out of it as we speak. Thankfully, I been in a new job in the 2 - 8 week period

[p.dath]

Surprise, surfuckenprise.

So, "Here's a great deal to get you all saving NZ. We'll even contribute savings ourselves to make it more attractive and get you signed up. Then, we'll pull our contributions and you're all locked in with nowhere to go"

Nice.

What part don't you get? We are in a recession. We are on the verge of having a credit downgrade (which means the interest cost for the loans the average NZ'er has will rise). We have had a major disaster.

The country needs to drastically (and I mean drastically) reduce its expenditure.

And you do realise it is a "retirement" scheme - for your retirement? Not a savings scheme, for when you feel you need the money?


And you do realise the "contribution" the Government is making is from money *you* have already given in taxation? Don't think of it is a "contribution" but as the Government making you do a forced deposit.

[White trash]

If I could get a lead for a decent paying job (labouring, unskilled, whatever) in Western Australia, I'd seriously look the fuck at getting out of here. Sick of my family suffering because I work like a bitch and go further backwards.

I think bourbon's cheaper over there too..............

[oneofsix]

If I could get a lead for a decent paying job (labouring, unskilled, whatever) in Western Australia, I'd seriously look the fuck at getting out of here. Sick of my family suffering because I work like a bitch and go further backwards.

I think bourbon's cheaper over there too..............

Bundenberg make rum over there. Heard truck driving doesn't pay too bad, in keeping with the Bourbon and cans theme

[White trash]

What part don't you get? We are in a recession. We are on the verge of having a credit downgrade (which means the interest cost for the loans the average NZ'er has will rise). We have had a major disaster.

I don't give a fuck. The government told me I needed to stop borrowing and start saving, and gave an incentive to do so. The catch being, I was locked in and the money was unavailable. I'm doing what they suggested. Now that I'm locked in, the incentive to sweeten the deal and get me to join is being renegged on. Sweet as. Give me my contribution back. As for interest rates rising, why should I care? I'm saving, not borrowing.


And you do realise it is a "retirement" scheme - for your retirement? Not a savings scheme, for when you feel you need the money?

Yes and no. I realise it's a "retirement" scheme. But also marketed as a savings scheme should you wish to use the contributions towards a first home buying deposit.


And you do realise the "contribution" the Government is making is from money *you* have already given in taxation? Don't think of it is a "contribution" but as the Government making you do a forced deposit.

Understand completely. However, they are renegging on one of the promises made to entice people to join. I particularly like the way there is a three month delay between my my employer forwarding my savings to IRD, and IRD then onforwarding to my Kiwisaver provider. Who's reaping the benefits here?

[mashman]

The country needs to drastically (and I mean drastically) reduce its expenditure.


Oh that's easy :)

[avgas]

realise it is a "retirement" scheme - for your retirement? Not a savings scheme, for when you feel you need the money?
You know the difference. Retirement is marketed higher and they can rip you off more.

Don't believe me do you - but its the truth. Retirement funds are the pinnacle of how to screw people out of money. You can offer often less than 20% of your actual return as the return on a retirement scheme.
In fact if your comparing it to Kiwisaver you could stuff money in the mattress and still get better returns than Kiwisaver. Without the govt contribution its worse than cash.

[p.dath]

I don't give a fuck. The government told me I needed to stop borrowing and start saving, and gave an incentive to do so. The catch being, I was locked in and the money was unavailable. I'm doing what they suggested. Now that I'm locked in, the incentive to sweeten the deal and get me to join is being renegged on. Sweet as. Give me my contribution back. As for interest rates rising, why should I care? I'm saving, not borrowing.

New Zealanders are very heavily in debt - that is why you should care about interest rates rising.

The Government *did* give you the incentive. It is now saying (well, probably saying, have to wait till the budget announcement for sure) that they are not going to continue doing this.
If you don't like the terms, then opt out and stop contributing.

Of course, realise that someone has to pay for your retirement. And realise that if you want the Government to provide this for you then don't expect much of a retirement.
Kiwisaver is about shifting the burden from the state to the individual - and making them responsible for their destiny. Do you really want to make the Government responsible for your destiny when you retire?


Yes and no. I realise it's a "retirement" scheme. But also marketed as a savings scheme should you wish to use the contributions towards a first home buying deposit.

And you can use it as a deposit towards your first home. This should probably be scrapped. Encouraging greater property investment is the last thing NZ needs. Property investment promotes a circular flow of cash within the country.
What we want is export generating companies that bring money into the country. Bring outside money into the country promotes real wealth.

The problem with property and circular investments, is that the value of the property is effectively the amount of money that you are prepared to borrow. And the result being that as the same unaltered property changes from one owner to another is that they simply increase the level of debt.


Understand completely. However, they are renegging on one of the promises made to entice people to join. I particularly like the way there is a three month delay between my my employer forwarding my savings to IRD, and IRD then onforwarding to my Kiwisaver provider. Who's reaping the benefits here?

Would you rather the Government didn't reneg and the country headed into greater financial turmoil? You realise the country is borrowing money every week? What is the point of borrowing the money at one interest rate, to give to NZ's to invest for a lower rate? The Government pas to pay the difference on that borrowing. You realise when I say Government - I really mean you and me have to pay the difference via taxation.

So you can choose to have the Government keep doing it and you personally pay more tax so the Government can make a loss, or stop doing it and reduce the loss.


You know the difference. Retirement is marketed higher and they can rip you off more.

Don't believe me do you - but its the truth. Retirement funds are the pinnacle of how to screw people out of money. You can offer often less than 20% of your actual return as the return on a retirement scheme.
In fact if your comparing it to Kiwisaver you could stuff money in the mattress and still get better returns than Kiwisaver. Without the govt contribution its worse than cash.

If your not happy with the Kiwisaver scheme return that your in - change schemes. I'm pretty happy with my scheme I'm in.
From memory it offers 5 different risk profiles, each with different rates of return. I can also have money in more than one of the funds at a time. If you want a higher rate of return just choose a scheme with more risk. How hard is that?

[Spearfish]

And you can use it as a deposit towards your first home. This should probably be scrapped. Encouraging greater property investment is the last thing NZ needs. Property investment promotes a circular flow of cash within the country.
What we want is export generating companies that bring money into the country. Bring outside money into the country promotes real wealth.

The problem with property and circular investments, is that the value of the property is effectively the amount of money that you are prepared to borrow. And the result being that as the same unaltered property changes from one owner to another is that they simply increase the level of debt.





Unless you break the loop by renting the second house or even a spare room to an overseas student or short term to tourists.

[p.dath]

Unless you break the loop by renting the second house or even a spare room to an overseas student or short term to tourists.

I think you'll find the vast majority of domestic property "investors" are buying a house for themselves, or to rent out to someone who they hope will be there for a while so they don't have to keep looking for new tenants, and they'll want people who have a regular income so they can have certainty that the rent will get paid.

Sure, there are people who do target foreign students in particular, but that chunk of the market is just not that big.
The last person I knew who did that kept being taken for a "ride". The foreign students would often stop paying for several weeks, especially near the end of term of the end of the year. They knew it took a long time to evict them, and then they left the country with huge unpaid bills. The person I knew lost a bundle over the 2 or 3 years they did it before pulling out of that market.

[p.dath]

If I could get a lead for a decent paying job (labouring, unskilled, whatever) in Western Australia, I'd seriously look the fuck at getting out of here. Sick of my family suffering because I work like a bitch and go further backwards.

I think bourbon's cheaper over there too..............

There are a lot of immigrants flooding in wanting those labouring/unskilled jobs - and willing to work like a dog for the minimum wage. Careful competing in that space ...

[Spearfish]

...................

I have heard that story a few times now from different corners.

And for the most part our mortgages are with Aussie banks so I guess the money just keeps pouring out.

[Mully]

Not really surprising TBH - I'm still happy having my 2% in, plus the companies 2%. Then obviously having different savings in other places.

$10 says once Labour are back in (2014? 2017?), they'll make it compulsory.

[pete376403]

the suppposed saving of $500 million looks like nickels and dimes compared to the $14.3 billion of foregone revenue from the tax cuts:

"CTU economist Bill Rosenberg said the Government last year gave $14.3 billion worth of tax cuts over four years mainly to those on high incomes and it now appears poised to cut the level of support to help New Zealanders save"

[reofix]

Helen and Michael promised us a workers paradise...and failed to deliver... JK just has to up the weekly borrowing from 300 mill to 750 mill and we will all be rich!!! easy really....

[MotoGirl]

If I could get a lead for a decent paying job (labouring, unskilled, whatever) in Western Australia, I'd seriously look the fuck at getting out of here. Sick of my family suffering because I work like a bitch and go further backwards.

I think bourbon's cheaper over there too..............

Get on a plane and get the hell out of there. NZ's a sinking ship. Leaving was the best thing I ever did.

[mrchips]

but wait there will be more. Wait until they tax you on receiving the payouts when you retire.

Yeah + I'd also expect a raised retirement age.

[White trash]

Get on a plane and get the hell out of there. NZ's a sinking ship. Leaving was the best thing I ever did.

Get me a decent paying job in shipping operations or freight forwarding mate?

[MotoGirl]

Get me a decent paying job in shipping operations or freight forwarding mate?

Plenty of well paying jobs over here, you just need to make the decision to leave NZ. If you are feeling bitter and twisted (like we were) then maybe it is time to leave? You can get your KiwiSaver money back out if you permanently relocate!

[Blackshear]

Don't forget that the kiwisaver also acts as a negative gearing backup for redundancy and shit like that.

Having said that, I'm putting mine on freeze.