A forking quiz...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Is the common fork dangerous? No, it's not. But running with one can be. See these pics for a demonstration 238115238116

Which brings me to the point (sorry) of this post. We as riders, need to do more to ensure we don't get hurt, or worse, killed on our roads. We need to take more responsibility in our own actions. I'm sure we've all had accidents where absolutely none of it was our fault, but I think deep down inside we know differently.

I started thinking about this topic, reading through Katmans poll (glad I haven't been thinking about Katmans pole). And it pains me to admit, that that silly old fart has a solid argument. Most of us are guilty of trying to place blame at the feet of someone/something else, instead of owning it ourselves. That needs to change.

I read the coroner's report that Katman posted a link to, and I read every single word of it. It's pretty sobering, and extremely sad. My thoughts and best wishes go out to Daniels family and friends, and all who knew him. Sounds like he was well loved. His friends that were riding with him that morning had to witness an horrific thing, and I'm sure the images of that fateful mornings ride will be with them forever.

Which brings me back to the fork. In writing these words, I'm hoping that those that knew Daniel won't see this as an unprovoked attack on him, as that's the last thing I'd ever want. I hope they can see that I'm simply trying to get us all thinking more when we choose to ride. The wire rope barrier inflicted the horrendous injuries when Daniel hit it, of that there can be no doubt. But if the barrier wasn't there, he could've just've easily ended up on the wrong side of the motorway, and under an on-coming truck. The wire rope barrier is just like the fork.

Please ride with due care. Look out for warning signs from other road users, that shows they don't know you're there. Don't ride outside of your comfort zone. Wear the appropriate gear. Do your utmost to arrive home safely for the sake of all of your loved ones.

Stay alert out there, and stay safe!

Pete

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fuck me. I might have to suck Katmans cock after all.

[merv]

I'd say that boy nose (or is that knows?) a thing or two about pain lol.

As for riding safe, the coroners report kind of highlights a few questions like is it a good idea to be riding a bike around 3am in the morning? Then if you do is it a good idea to squirt it up to 190km/hr or so with a dark visor on?

Perhaps the answers are something like there is a time and place for things and at that time the best place to be might be at a party at a friends place or in bed with some chick while your bike is safely tucked up way back at home. The youth of today do seem to live in a different time zone than us more mature people shall we say but they don't come with the night vision of an owl any more than we do.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'd say that boy nose (or is that knows?) a thing or two about pain lol.

They say that boys only learn the true meaning of the word consequence after the age of around 25. Pity some of them never get that far.

[Katman]

Fuck me. I might have to suck Katmans cock after all.

That's really not necessary Pete.

But for those of you who think my delivery sucks - this thread is a perfect example of why my delivery works.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That's really not necessary Pete.


Thank fuck. Tell ya what though...I fucking hate having to admit that someone I've abused so much may well be right. But seeing as over 100 people have read this without adding to it makes your style look correct.

[Katman]

I hate to disappoint you Pete but a quarter of those views were probably me coming back constantly to see whether anyone was actually viewing it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I hate to disappoint you Pete but a quarter of those views were probably me coming back constantly to see whether anyone was actually viewing it.

Bad buzz. Guess I'll have to stick to selling bikes. Thought for a minute I could write papers on motorcycle safety.

[bogan]

Thank fuck. Tell ya what though...I fucking hate having to admit that someone I've abused so much may well be right. But seeing as over 100 people have read this without adding to it makes your style look correct.

I think the timing is somewhat poor, this issue has been flogged to a slightly red stain on the ground in the last week. Maybe we wanted a quiz about forks and were disappointed to see more of the same.

[Drew]

I know that Katman is right with in his message, but the messenger is just begging to be shot.

I have for a long time (since I had my right leg crushed by a woman failing to give way), been far more aware of my surroundings while riding. And feel that others should have at least the same level of concentration when out and about, hopefully without the pain I went through to get it.

The generalisation that all accidents are avoidable is really the only way to get it through to people, that 99% of them really were/are. It's a good way to get people to think about it, and make them be honest with themselves.

Steve, I aint even contemplating sucking your cock!

[White trash]

As for riding safe, the coroners report kind of highlights a few questions like is it a good idea to be riding a bike around 3am in the morning? Then if you do is it a good idea to squirt it up to 190km/hr or so with a dark visor on?


Having been young and in charge of high powered bikes Merv, I'd argue that there is possibly no better time of the day to be out travelling at those sorts of speeds and doing wheelies. Especially as there's less chance of hurting someone else due to your own shortcomings.

Riding bikes in that fashion is risky, we know this. We never expect to actually be killed obviously but it's all about risk managment and this is what makes the difference between riders. What level of risk they're prepared to accept in their riding style.

[Drew]

I aint sifting through Katmans posts to find the link to that coroners report, someone link it here.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think the timing is somewhat poor, this issue has been flogged to a slightly red stain on the ground in the last week. Maybe we wanted a quiz about forks and were disappointed to see more of the same.

Sorry you feel that way. I was simply trying to show Katman that there is a slightly softer way of delivering the same message.

[MSTRS]

Thank fuck. Tell ya what though...I fucking hate having to admit that someone I've abused so much may well be right. But seeing as over 100 people have read this without adding to it makes your style look correct.

That was a brilliant thread starter of a post.

...wrote lots of stuff, then deleted it...

Shall we say that no matter the delivery, the message is the important thing. And we must keep hammering it.

[bogan]

Sorry you feel that way. I was simply trying to show Katman that there is a slightly softer way of delivering the same message.

Fair enuf too, and I reckon the softer way is better. My point was the lack of replies may have more to do with the abundance of discussion lately, rather than because of your approach.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That was a brilliant thread starter of a post.

Shall we say that no matter the delivery, the message is the important thing. And we must keep hammering it.

I was actually gonna call it 'A forking quiz = Pete doing a soft Katman'. But I thought people would think I was queer.

Yes.

[Katman]

Fair enuf too, and I reckon the softer way is better. My point was the lack of replies may have more to do with the abundance of discussion lately, rather than because of your approach.

I reckon you're clutching at straws.

Just maybe my delivery doesn't suck - maybe it just sucks that the delivery has to be made in that manner.

[Maha]

I was actually gonna call it 'A forking quiz = Pete doing a soft Katman'. But I thought people would think I was queer.

Yes.

You will never reach the lows of recent thread starters with that attitude Pete unless you poll this thread..
Is Pete queer?...no provisio need...:corn:

[MSTRS]

I reckon you're clutching at straws.

You here for another argument?
Some respond to the softly softly catchee monkey style, some respond to the attack by an axe murderer style*.
Just so long as the message gets through.

* It does seem as if the rip your head off, shit down your neck style gets more views. It certainly brings out the rubberneckers

[bogan]

You here for another argument?
Some respond to the softly softly catchee monkey style, some respond to the attack by an axe murderer style*.
Just so long as the message gets through.

* It does seem as if the rip your head off, shit down your neck style gets more views. It certainly brings out the rubberneckers

Which raises the point of how do you measure the effectiveness of the message? posts/views is not a very good measure.

[Katman]

Which raises the point of how do you measure the effectiveness of the message? posts/views is not a very good measure.

Start a poll.:whistle:

(Anyone care to hazard a guess at the percentage that would have been in my favour if I'd asked the same question 5 years ago?

I wouldn't have made it to double figures.)

[skippa1]

You here for another argument?
Some respond to the softly softly catchee monkey style, some respond to the attack by an axe murderer style*.
Just so long as the message gets through.

* It does seem as if the rip your head off, shit down your neck style gets more views. It certainly brings out the rubberneckers

I suggest both you and katspiss sit holding hands under the table together seeking arguments when I read all your posts:corn:

[Bonez]

Start a poll.:whistle:

(Anyone care to hazard a guess at the percentage that would have been in my favour if I'd asked the same question 5 years ago?

I wouldn't have made it to double figures.)You do make lot of assumptions. If you had a "I don't give a fuck it's an internet poll" option I'm sure there would be a lot more participation Steve. Half the viewing is probably you checking the poll results every few minutes ;)

[Pussy]

And it pains me to admit, that that silly old fart has a solid argument. Most of us are guilty of trying to place blame at the feet of someone/something else, instead of owning it ourselves. That needs to change.

Pete

So I still associate with low-lifes, do I??

He's no older than you, either

[Katman]

Half the viewing is probably you checking the poll results every few minutes ;)

Yeah, and half the votes have been me using alias log-ins.

[Crasherfromwayback]

So I still associate with low-lifes, do I??

He's no older than you, either

I'm sure you do. So do I. I don't mind being called an old cunt either.

[ellipsis]

Sorry you feel that way. I was simply trying to show Katman that there is a slightly softer way of delivering the same message.

....dont know if there is any way to deliver the message in a way that anybody actually listens and acts on the sensibilities of the message, at all times...Im in full agreement with Katmans approach...it fits..... the softly, softly approach is the other extreme, and that doesn't do all that well either...when Im not being Katman'like in my riding, I'm being like that twat that everyone wants to vilify, for being a twat...I sometimes wonder if my number will come up when Im in Katman mode or when Im in a slow down Rossi mode...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm being like that twat that everyone wants to vilify,

Some twats are more of a twat than the twats their calling twats.

[Drew]

I'm sure you do. So do I. I don't mind being called an old cunt either.


You're only as old as the chick your feeling I thought.

[Mom]

Fuck me. I might have to suck Katmans cock after all.

Maha and I are lucky, he told us to go fuck ourselves. Fortunately we are not adverse to that idea, and infact have taken his advice very seriously indeedy :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

You're only as old as the chick your feeling I thought.

Hah! She's mentally far older than I am though.

[Katman]

Maha and I are lucky, he told us to go fuck ourselves. Fortunately we are not adverse to that idea, and infact have taken his advice very seriously indeedy :yes:

Please pass on my sympathy to Maha.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Maha and I are lucky, he told us to go fuck ourselves. Fortunately we are not adverse to that idea, and infact have taken his advice very seriously indeedy :yes:

Don't think you're special Love, I've been told that too. By many people. Catch 22 though. If it's soft enough to bend it won't go up my arse, and if it's stiff it won't bend.

[Pussy]

Expectations seem a little different amongst motorcyclists.
In my last job, if you made a serious/fatal fuck up, no-one bought you a box of chocolates. The events leading up to the incident were carefully torn apart, often publicly. Wasn't unusual to get a public roasting, either. You were held responsible for your actions.
I admire a few people on here who have put their hand up and owned their mistakes. It even provides a message for others not to make them, or at least consciously try to avoid them.
Sometimes the soft soap approach isn't as effective as the brash "in your face" approach

[Katman]

Sometimes the soft soap approach isn't as effective as the brash "in your face" approach

Thankfully, for a lot, it's a whole lot easier to ignore though.

[Bass]

Sometimes the soft soap approach isn't as effective as the brash "in your face" approach

It has long seemed to me that despite the number of us that revile Katman's delivery style, pretty much everyone understands the message and the reasons behind it.
Consequently, I have also long wondered if the success of dissemination is (in part at least) due to the "in your face" style of the delivery. I find that I have to admit the possibility.

As to whether or not we should be discussing what happened to Dan, I long ago told my family the following: -
If the day ever comes when I die on a motorcycle and investigation reveals that there is something that I could have done to prevent it, but failed to do so, then I want it discussed with little or no regard to peoples feelings. If there is the vaguest possibility that it might prevent the same thing happening to someone else, then please talk about it.
Feelings are transitory things and can be repaired - dead bodies cannot.
Note that I said nothing about fault. Fault is utterly irrelevant.
I of course, can speak only for myself.

Lastly, I have had only one significant "off" on a bike. It was entirely my own fault and I knew that the moment that my helmet hit the road. I have never pretended anything else. Sure, there were adverse road conditions and other contributing factors, but I failed to allow for them and suffered the consequences.
What did I learn from it?
I learned that watching a Monty Python video with 3 broken ribs is a very bad idea

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thankfully, for a lot, it's a whole lot easier to ignore though.

I'm hoping the soft approach isn't being ignored, maybe it simply doesn't make everyone want to shoot the messenger.

[Maha]

Fork/Bike/Plane....potentially leathal.

Stace Hopper died last year at Marsden Cove. He crashed his light plane shortly after take off and died as a result. The CAA report says the predominant cause of the accident was Mr Hopper made a decision to operate the aircraft in an unsafe manner.
He flew the aircraft parallel with the ground after takeoff.
The aircraft followed the the air-strip, close to the ground. When it was near to a parked van (180m from the end of the air-strip) it pulled up and banked.
The right wing tip struck the vans drivers door and the plane crashed 50m beyond the van.
The occupants in the van were known to Mr Hopper and it is believed that Mr Hopper may have flown the plane towards the van at low level...a 'fly by'.
Publication of The report would serve to highlight the possible consequences of ''at risk behaviour''

[Pussy]

Fork/Bike/Plane....potentially leathal.

Stace Hopper died last year at Marsden Cove. He crashed his light plane shortly after take off and died as a result. The CAA report says the predominant cause of the accident was Mr Hopper made a decision to operate the aircraft in an unsafe manner.
He flew the aircraft parallel with the ground after takeoff.
The aircraft followed the the air-strip, close to the ground. When it was near to a parked van (180m from the end of the air-strip) it pulled up and banked.
The right wing tip struck the vans drivers door and the plane crashed 50m beyond the van.
The occupants in the van were known to Mr Hopper and it is believed that Mr Hopper may have flown the plane towards the van at low level...a 'fly by'.
Publication of The report would serve to highlight the possible consequences of ''at risk behaviour''

Yeah, well that was a real crowd pleaser!
That was a typical "confidence exceeding competence" act.
The dead pilot gets no sympathy from me

[Maha]

Yeah, well that was a real crowd pleaser!
That was a typical "confidence exceeding competence" act.
The dead pilot gets no sympathy from me

CAA says 'The flightpath of the plane suggests there was a conscious and deliberate decision by the pilot not to follow the normal climb profile after takeoff and fly towards the van at low level'

....given a second chance I would suggest Mr Hopper wouldn't attempt that again.

[Crasherfromwayback]

....given a second chance I would suggest Mr Hopper would attempt that again.

Therein lies the problem with such decisions.

[Ocean1]

What level of risk is acceptable?

I'm assuming that nobody is silly enough to suggest it's possible to ride with 0% chance of having an accident.

Should we ride in such a manner that we're statistically likely to have an accident every 1000k? 100,000k? 1000,000?

And: to whom does the risk, (whatever the experts say that should be) need to be acceptable?

[Maha]

Therein lies the problem with such decisions.

I have edited the post Pete, the word 'would' suggests I know the guy's personallity when I dont.

[Maha]

What level of risk is acceptable?

I'm assuming that nobody is silly enough to suggest it's possible to ride with 0% chance of having an accident.

Should we ride in such a manner that we're statistically likely to have an accident every 1000k? 100,000k? 1000,000?

And: to whom does the risk, (whatever the experts say that should be) need to be acceptable?

The risk needs to be acceptable to the risk taker...a decision coupled with risk assesment is made in a split second.
That split second has total control of your life until the decision made to perhaps risk it, is completed safely.
Sometimes it does not always go to plan.

[Katman]

Sometimes it does not always go to plan.
Sometimes it just comes down to how well you've planned.

[98tls]

As an older motorcyclist i look back and liken motorcycling to growing up,you push until boundaries are found through a thick ear from your old man or a tad later a night in the cells when you fuck up,sadly all those found boundaries are generally survivable but with motorcycles boundaries are often found and decided on by the pain associated with fucking up,nothing like pain to make a decision for you:facepalm:Sadly many dont get away with just pain and pay the ultimate price eh.My old mans words ring true when a young fella after having an off through the Hundaless which was basically on my back door,"if you survive a few more of those boy there's a chance you will go on to enjoy a lifetime of motorcycling".Wont be a popular way of looking at it on here i am sure but it is what it is .

[Katman]

As an older motorcyclist i look back and liken motorcycling to growing up,you push until boundaries are found through a thick ear from your old man or a tad later a night in the cells when you fuck up,sadly all those found boundaries are generally survivable but with motorcycles boundaries are often found and decided on by the pain associated with fucking up,nothing like pain to make a decision for you:facepalm:Sadly many dont get away with just pain and pay the ultimate price eh.My old mans words ring true when a young fella after having an off through the Hundaless which was basically on my back door,"if you survive a few more of those boy there's a chance you will go on to enjoy a lifetime of motorcycling".Wont be a popular way of looking at it on here i am sure but it is what it is .

The world's moved on since you were a lad Mike.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sometimes it just comes down to how well you've planned.

Or how well equipped you are, to on the spot make adjustments for the plan that's just turned to custard. Time to upskill everyone.

[98tls]

The world's moved on since you were a lad Mike.

True mate but both him and i are still riding eh.70 and riding a 1250 Bandit,not to bad.

[Drew]

Or how well equipped you are, to on the spot make adjustments for the plan that's just turned to custard. Time to upskill everyone.

Man, you used to be cool!

[Pussy]

Sometimes kicking arses works better than kissing them!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Man, you used to be cool!

What's not cool about wanting to be a better rider? I'm still trying to improve!

[Drew]

Sometimes kicking arses works better than kissing them!

And yet, you told me that in person, Katman is a really nice guy.

So he obviously lacks the power of the conviction he shows here.

Is that someone we should listen to?

[Drew]

What's not cool about wanting to be a better rider? I'm still trying to improve!

Cool riders are the ones out of control!

[Katman]

Cool riders are the ones out of control!

Once upon a time Drew that post might have gained you plenty of support here.

Nowadays it just makes you sound retarded.

[Pussy]

And yet, you told me that in person, Katman is a really nice guy.

So he obviously lacks the power of the conviction he shows here.

Is that someone we should listen to?

IRL, he is a VERY good bastard!
Everyone has a different style.
Drew, when I was learning to fly many years ago, I was lucky enough to be mentored by VERY experienced pilots who I held in the utmost high respect.
I got my arse kicked a couple of times by them if they saw anything about my flying that needed commenting on. They were trying to make me a more professional pilot, not trying to humiliate me.
It worked. I still remember wise words from them. Even if they made me feel like an idiot! When you make an unwise choice in an aeroplane, it is often the last one you ever make.

[98tls]

Is there a "duckshooters forum?'If so bet its heated tonight:facepalm:

[Ocean1]

What level of risk is acceptable?


The risk needs to acceptable to the risk taker...

So. Just the one, then. And that the easier of the two questions.

None of the experts care to put an actual number on it?

I'da thought that before you started questioning someone else's behaviour you'd sorta need to have some idea of what was OK.

Obviously not.

[White trash]

Is there a "duckshooters forum?'If so bet its heated tonight:facepalm:

Excellent post.

[Katman]

I'da thought that before you started questioning someone else's behaviour you'd sorta need to have some idea of what was OK.



There's enough to choose from in what's not OK.

[Ocean1]

There's enough to choose from in what's not OK.

How do you know what's OK? That guy you're abusing might have half a million miles under his belt.

Again, how many miles per accident are acceptable?

And what makes you think you're the one that get's to decide?

[Katman]

How do you know what's OK? That guy you're abusing might have half a million miles under his belt.

Again, how many miles per accident are acceptable?

And what makes you think you're the one that get's to decide?

Did BD say you were allowed to post that?

[Ocean1]

Did BD say you were allowed to post that?

Yeah. See, if you din't have numbers then you don't have facts. What you've got is an opinion.

If you're going to get involved in discussions about safety then you really should know a bit about the parameters. You can bleat about any specific variable until the cows come home but unless you can quantify it you've got jack shit.

[Katman]

Yeah. See, if you din't have numbers then you don't have facts. What you've got is an opinion.

If you're going to get involved in discussions about safety then you really should know a bit about the parameters. You can bleat about any specific variable until the cows come home but unless you can quantify it you've got jack shit.

*ocean discovers a tangent*

[PrincessBandit]

I suggest both you and katspiss sit holding hands under the table together seeking arguments when I read all your posts:corn:

Hahahaha, at least you're reading them... I think that's part of the strategy

[Ocean1]

*ocean discovers a tangent*

Go get some schooling, boy.

Come back when you know what you're talking about.

[Kickaha]

Man, you used to be cool!

Whereas you never have been or are likely to be :finger:

[Big Dave]

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[Drew]

Once upon a time Drew that post might have gained you plenty of support here.

Nowadays it just makes you sound retarded.

Retarded is as retarded does.:yes:

[Drew]

IRL, he is a VERY good bastard!

That's the general consensus. Yet he gets called names by most people on here.

So I can only deduce, that weather his message is right or wrong, he doesn't peddle it face to face. And if he does, it's with a lot more tact and a shit load less severity.

If that's the case, he's just another spineless keyboard jokey from kiwibiker, New Zealands biggest creator there of.

[AllanB]

"Katmans pole"


Still laughing at that pun.


Good shit in your OP though. Food for thought.

[Berries]

My point was the lack of replies may have more to do with the abundance of discussion lately, rather than because of your approach.
Or the completely shit thread title.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or the completely shit thread title.

You could have a point there. What do you think It should be called?

[Grubber]

What's not cool about wanting to be a better rider? I'm still trying to improve!

Good thread start, unfortunately we have beaten this one to death. The other problem is that it gets high jacked at every point by KM and turned into a circus.
I agree that it's actually awesome to keep improving and i, like you still go out of my way to do just that. I just want to be good at what i do. It's not always about me riding safe, although that is one of the benefits, but just about being good at it.
What i can't abide is the holier than thou crap a have to see at every corner on the site of the 1 man crusade that lurks within.
I am not so silly to think that at least some accidents could be avoided and that some couldn't, but at least i don't make the assumptions at every turn when i see someone write about their crash.
Most people know when they have fucked up, just leave it at that i say.

[MSTRS]

...."if you survive a few more of those boy there's a chance you will go on to enjoy a lifetime of motorcycling".Wont be a popular way of looking at it on here i am sure but it is what it is .


The world's moved on since you were a lad Mike.

The advice is still quite relevant.
The keyword is 'IF'. And the kicker is 'lifetime'...

[Katman]

The advice is still quite relevant.
The keyword is 'IF'. And the kicker is 'lifetime'...

That's true. I was implying though that we got away with a lot in our youth through luck that the volume of traffic today doesn't allow for to anywhere near the same degree.

[Berries]

You could have a point there. What do you think It should be called?
Take Responsibility? Something that will get people to read it. The only reason I looked at a forking quiz was that I was bored.

[MSTRS]

That's true. I was implying though that we got away with a lot in our youth through luck that the volume of traffic today doesn't allow for to anywhere near the same degree.

No you weren't. You were implying that the advice was old-fashioned and in this namby-pamby safety-obsessed world we are cursed with, no longer 'approved'.
:innocent: