Front wheel slipping out from under the bike - What to do?

[Beren]

After some advice this morning, had rather too close a call on the way in to work.

Coming in on the Northern I lane split between traffic - now mid way through my second week and I am starting to pick up speed a little.:yes:

So this morning I am drifting through the traffic at a reasonable pace wearing my bright flourescent learners jacket. It is raining, but not overly heavilly. the traffic is all behaving itself with a nice sized gap so I am doing close on 60kph. Suddenly I notice in the gap two cars in front is a police motorbike. :blink::eek:

Thought process - Police, I'm going fast enough to be an issue, and I'm wearing a bright yellow Flourescent thing with 'L' Plates on it, and I'm on the motorway where I'm not supposed to be anyway, best I stop splitting then.:facepalm:

So in a slight panic I grab a handful of the front brake. Wet road, over zealous braking, then the already struggling front tyre finds the white line and the front end decides enough is enough and slips sideways.:gob:

The bike going over kicked in some very old motorcross instincts and with the application of my right boot on the road made it upright and past the copper straight and level. I'm suprised he couldn't smell me though!

Now apart from a slightly aching right hip, me and the bike are fine. Not sure if the copper wasn't paying any attention to what he should have seen in his mirrors but as I wandered past him at about 35k's he didn't bat an eyelid.:innocent:

Obviously I was going a little too quick for my ability - as an emergency braking manuever in the conditions was not controlled. It was the hazzard I wasn't expecting that made me panic and not react correctly - next time speed will be shed more calmly or not at all. A ticket is far far better than being under a car!

However, if the front end goes out on a road bike is it already too late? Or is there anything other than putting your foot out that you can do to save the situation?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't be braking on the paint in the wet. EVER. Slow down. Don't ever "Grab a handful of front brake" wet or dry. Squeeze it progressively harder gently.

[bogan]

Don't be braking on the paint in the wet. EVER. Slow down. Don't ever "Grab a handful of front brake" wet or dry. Squeeze it progressively harder gently.

+1 and do some braking practice on an empty road or parking lot to better acquaint yourself with the bikes feel and limitation under heavy braking.

[Ferkletastic]

Quite honestly you shouldn't be splitting at speed in the rain as a newbie (even as a non-newbie really). Especially only a couple weeks into riding. The lines are slippery and car drivers are worse than usual in the rain.

Basically chill on the speed a bit, practise your emergency braking (like CFWB said, brake progressively always, never just grab a handful especially in the wet and even more especially on wet painted lines).

The best rule of thumb I've heard for splitting is that really you shouldn't be doing it over about 40k, slower in the rain for obvious reasons. The margins for error are small as and car drivers will not see you fluoro or not. This time you had to brake for a cop, next time it could be because suddlenly there's a van pulling across directly in front of you and the argument "They should have been looking" won't unbreak you or your bike.

[MSTRS]

+1 to what others have said.
Never grab big handfuls of brake in the wet. Or pea metal, etc. Results may vary, but...
Best way to avoid that sort of situation is to allow for it up front.

[superman]

Careful out there mate, splitting in the wet can be quite a challenge to do safely.

Why do you have boy racer mentality to grab a fuck load of brake when you see a cop, just chill out they are usually good cunts and only get pissed off if you do something stupid and/or are being unsafe. Lucky he didn't see you, probably would have pulled you over for that. :yes:

[george formby]

Ride to the conditions.
Now you know how little grip you have in the rain you can adjust your speed & safety margin to suit.

IMHO most of the time the front goes you have to pick your self & the bike up, a big dab will save you at relatively slow speed on a light bike if you have the reactions of a cat but don't rely on it. Good save nevertheless, happened to me as a yoof showing off on a salty roundabout but a stomp from the #12 boot kicked everything upright again. I only did it once.

As stated practice your breaking & your observation.:yes:

[Beren]

Don't be braking on the paint in the wet. EVER. Slow down. Don't ever "Grab a handful of front brake" wet or dry. Squeeze it progressively harder gently.

Aye, and to the others below. With the cars that have already made me practice rapid manouvers I have been fine flicking down a couple of gears and a progressive front brake with a dab on the rear sheds speed amazingly fast. I always sit at a gear higher than usual and just releasing the throttle slows me down almost as fast as I used to ever brake in the cage! My problem was that there was a heck of a lot of threats I was prepared to deal with - the copper wasn't one of them and it made me panic. Obviously I need to practice and practice some more on the braking front so that my instant reaction is the correct one rather than what I did!

With regards to the racer boy mentality - I am very used to police in the uk taking almost any opportunity to land on L-plate riders, as I said he didn't bat an eyelid and will have to work hard on my fight/flight response not to see them as quite such a threat!

So other than the application of a right boot, practice and more practice so I don't end up in the situation in the first place and yes calming the speed down a little - would there have been anything else I could have done to rectify the situation?

[Chancebmx25]

aye man settle on them brakes brother. and ur white line is your enemy. watch out for those idiots there everywea they live amongst us. but ur brakes.. there ur bestfreind. just cruise it man, u wouldnt choke ur dog would u? so why choke ur brakes buy yanking on their necks.... relax lol. get smooth for starters. if ur not smooth but fast.. then an accident will come ur way... get smooth fast the speed will come later. and forget the cops. go on the motorway all u want. thea leniant u say ur practising on the mway to merge into traffic before gettn ur restricted. plenty of excuses out there. u legally have the right to practise riding ur moto on nz roads. legally!

[Katman]

So other than the application of a right boot, practice and more practice so I don't end up in the situation in the first place and yes calming the speed down a little - would there have been anything else I could have done to rectify the situation?

Be more aware of what's happening in front of you.

[MSTRS]

So other than the application of a right boot, practice and more practice so I don't end up in the situation in the first place and yes calming the speed down a little - would there have been anything else I could have done to rectify the situation?

Scan further ahead, maybe? It certainly gives you a chance to adjust for potential problems before they become one for you.
Once you are in an emergency situation like you found yourself in, luck is probably the biggest factor in any saving of it.

In other news, being an L plater on a MW may not be recommended, but you are legally entitled to be on a MW. Best advice there, is go with the flow. It's the speed differential that is likely to cause any problem.

[steve_t]

Scan further ahead, maybe?

+1. At first, it actually takes conscious effort to make yourself look as far ahead as you can see, especially when in traffic. Make it a habit and you'll reduce the chances of getting into a similar situation again.

And as everyone else has said, squeeze the brake progressively :yes:

[willytheekid]

:facepalm:

Get some Rider training booked in :yes:....you need it if your learning on the Auckland freeway and having these sorts of trouble in the wet.....what if the bike had let go?, was the car/truck behind or beside you gonna stop in time??
Learner licence- freeway - filtering - and losing control.....training, please!

Ride safe mate :)

(not having a dig at you, just concerned)

[nodrog]

...So this morning I am drifting through the traffic.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/tobereeno/2008-Ducati-Hypermotard1100Se.jpg

[Beren]

I think I am pretty good at the scanning side of things. You can never relax on that even for a second when splitting. I had processed that there was a bike helmet in the gap and that it was in the middle of a lane and happily not a threat. It wasn't until I could see the bike itself that I realised I was coming up on a copper.

I am always scanning probably 8-10 car lengths in front watching for road position changes, models of cars that represent issues and all the other bits and pieces that represent potential close up problems and as far ahead as I can for the general size of the gap in the traffic - sudden brake lights - or gaps that people might try and quickly fill.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I think I am pretty good at the scanning side of things. .

Not if you ended up braking suddenly and heavily on wet paint you're not.

[bogan]

I think I am pretty good at the scanning side of things. You can never relax on that even for a second when splitting. I had processed that there was a bike helmet in the gap and that it was in the middle of a lane and happily not a threat. It wasn't until I could see the bike itself that I realised I was coming up on a copper.

I am always scanning probably 8-10 car lengths in front watching for road position changes, models of cars that represent issues and all the other bits and pieces that represent potential close up problems and as far ahead as I can for the general size of the gap in the traffic - sudden brake lights - or gaps that people might try and quickly fill.

It sounds like you saw and identified everything fine, but you still were going to fast for your scanning ability, as shown by the necessity of a quick stop. Establishing a balance between scanning distance, potential for hidden threats, rider ability, road conditions, is a very good plan, and if in doubt, ease back a notch.

[george formby]

It sounds like you saw and identified everything fine, but you still were going to fast for your scanning ability, as shown by the necessity of a quick stop. Establishing a balance between scanning distance, potential for hidden threats, rider ability, road conditions, is a very good plan, and if in doubt, ease back a notch.

Exacary, use what you see to dictate a safe pace. In the situation you describe I would probably be creeping past the cars knowing that anything could happen next & my ability to brake & steer were seriously compromised due to the weather.

When you think back to what happened, if you had applied the brakes less aggressively or acted sooner seeing a helmet in your gap, very likely to move out, plus the other variables, could you have avoided the lock up? If so, figuring out what you could have, should have done would be a good place to start to avoid a repeat.

I'm not preaching or knocking just passing on that I have learned a lot from my own mistakes.:facepalm:

[Beren]

Not if you ended up braking suddenly and heavily on wet paint you're not.

Probably fair comment. Though it wasn't a physical threat but an over reaction to a police officer which caused the problem.

-Edit-
I think the plan is going to be finding some nice empty road that is wet and practice - a lot. I was missing one big piece of data up till this morning - what happened to my bike under those braking situations in the wet. I was definitely travelling a notch too fast, not massively too fast but definitely a bit. However I have not had to do any emergency stops in live conditions, heavy braking yes but not emergency. Now I know I definitely need more practice!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Probably fair comment. Though it wasn't a physical threat but an over reaction to a police officer which caused the problem.

Yeah, but that could've just as easily been some goober suddenly changing lanes on you. Same result.

[aprilia_RS250]

Watch out for tar snakes on the road too. Little patches of black to cover up cracks. I've had a few rear wheel wiggles slips going over those, but they're a lot more dangerous if you're in a biggish lean.

At intersections stop in the area where the cars tyres would be, i.e. never in the centre. The amount of oil that can piss out of car/bus/truck is amazing.

Bikes in general don't have ABS and aren't as good as stopping as cars. Follow the 2 sec rule religiously. If you're are gonna bunch up close line up to the edge of the car... That way you'll have some chance in swerving and avoiding an accident.

[Brian d marge]

Keep your helmet on and say sorry to casey .......

Stephen

[rickstv]

Hey Beren, Get yourself along to NASS, (North Auckland Street Skills) every Wed night. We meet at Shell Westgate at 6.30 pm and ride to Albany Noel Leemings carpark at 7.00pm for free rider training. Emergency braking is high on the agenda.
Best of all it's free and about one third of riders have the same skill level as you.

By the way, it was nice meeting you on Mom and Maha's weekend ride to Shelly Beach.

Rick.

[theseekerfinds]

...Get yourself along to NASS, (North Auckland Street Skills) every Wed night. We meet at Shell Westgate at 6.30 pm and ride to Albany Noel Leemings carpark at 7.00pm for free rider training. Emergency braking is high on the agenda.
Best of all it's free and about one third of riders have the same skill level as you.
Rick.

wish we had something like this down here in Lower Hutt, if there is something like this I'd love to know about it

[slofox]

Putting your foot down when the front goes out can have the effect of converting an easy low side into a spectacular high side...(and DAMHIK)...:facepalm:

[Maha]

Quite honestly you shouldn't be splitting at speed in the rain as a newbie (even as a non-newbie really). Especially only a couple weeks into riding. The lines are slippery and car drivers are worse than usual in the rain.

Basically chill on the speed a bit, practise your emergency braking (like CFWB said, brake progressively always, never just grab a handful especially in the wet and even more especially on wet painted lines).

The best rule of thumb I've heard for splitting is that really you shouldn't be doing it over about 40k, slower in the rain for obvious reasons. The margins for error are small as and car drivers will not see you fluoro or not. This time you had to brake for a cop, next time it could be because suddlenly there's a van pulling across directly in front of you and the argument "They should have been looking" won't unbreak you or your bike.

Wise words indeed, and my thoughts also, given the Conditions/Rider experience.

[YellowDog]

Probably fair comment. Though it wasn't a physical threat but an over reaction to a police officer which caused the problem.


Beren buddy, you were going too fast for the conditions. Other than gentle support for the rear brack, the front brake is a big no no in such a situation. As you have already said, you'd be better off getting a ticket than sticking yourself under a car.

The foot bang on the ground is an unfortunate natural instinct that under differing circumstances may result in a broken leg.

Learn from it and move on. Practice makes perfect.

Good luck.

[bogan]

wish we had something like this down here in Lower Hutt, if there is something like this I'd love to know about it

Finding and getting permission for a carpark can be pretty difficult I found. If you can get a place sorted you might be able to convince some experienced riders to come give some pointers.

[Beren]

Cheers all, lesson taken on board! Now just need to do something about it... i.e. practice much more and make sure I yank it back a notch.

All being equal will make sure I am at NASS next week, would come tonight but think I am on cooking duty.

[Ender EnZed]

is there anything other than putting your foot out that you can do to save the situation?

+1 to both of these:


Putting your foot down when the front goes out can have the effect of converting an easy low side into a spectacular high side...(and DAMHIK)...:facepalm:

The foot bang on the ground is an unfortunate natural instinct that under differing circumstances may result in a broken leg.

[crystalball]

yep gets your heart pumpin a little more lane splitting lol.:yes:wet weather with white lines, misty car windows and mirrors and trying your best to remember to keep the speed down, and watching that rain poor off ya visor, and then get to work think wow now I know why i ride.

[HungusMaximist]

Lived to tell the tale, nice one.

I haven't had the luck of rescuing my front, from the times that it went, but I guess I need to work on practising losing my front and regaining traction. Ya, good instincts on get your foot out. Motorcross experience is always a bonus.

[Ender EnZed]

I haven't had the luck of rescuing my front, from the times that it went, but I guess I need to work on practising losing my front and regaining traction.

Or on not losing your front. That might also be worth a try.

[Metastable]

Aside from all the accident prevention advice.... in terms of answering your question, the answer is ... IT DEPENDS.

For clarification. You can lock the front and release the brakes fast enough that the front will not tuck, but you have to be ready for it. If the front starts to tuck, then your response is the only thing that will keep it upright. The only other thing that will, once you have lost the front is to use your knee if you are in a corner. However, unless you are going crazy road speeds... you won't be saving anything on your knee. At the track, in the dry.... yes it is possible. It happened to me for the first time earlier this year. I nearly pooped my pants. My handlebars turned and I though "OH $#!T, I'm crashing"... instinctively pushed the knee out and somehow I didn't fall. It was more luck than anything.

However, in your situation, my example doesn't apply.... but I do wonder if you could maybe have released the front brake a little sooner. You can actually apply A LOT of pressure in the wet (lines aside), just don't grab a handful... it needs to be progressive. You can practice in a wet parking lot. You can practice locking and releasing the front. It is a great exercise.... although a bit scary to try at first.

[tigertim20]

crasher gave great advice, but also knowing your own abilities, and that of the bike as well is also important. next time its raining, go and find a big empty carpark and practice some braking manouvers, get a feel for the bike and what it can do. also if in a city or during a season where rain can be an issue, think about what sort of qaulity tyres you have on the bike as well.

Practice evrything, Ive been on a bike 15 years ish now, and I still go and practice stuff on a regular basis.

Hopefully a near miss is enough to encourage you to slow down your own progress to a level where similar incidents dont occur again. :yes:

[Mom]

However, if the front end goes out on a road bike is it already too late? Or is there anything other than putting your foot out that you can do to save the situation?

As you have discovered it hurts when you stomp the road. There is a thread on here somewhere about saving a front wheel loss. It is by a rather controversial member, well he isn't really, just creates a shit storm when he posts. He has a few tips that I think are useful having used a couple of them myself.

Getting the weight off the front wheel as fast as you can will help, stay away from the cats eyes, and check your front tyre pressure.

Only other advise I have...

You seemed like a lovely young man when we met the other weekend. I would like to spend more time getting to know you, therefore I dont want you to kill yourself on the road anytime soon. Slow down :yes:

Leave a bit earlier for work if timing is an issue. By all means lane split, but do it with care and consideration to other road users ao you can infact split past a copper without panicking.

Simply slow down and build the skills you need, before you discover you dont actually have them :pinch:

[Chancebmx25]

close. i think everyone should ride a push bike till they crash so they get a feel of what it can be like roughly. or do motorcross for a bit and crash more so A: you feel how crashing is.. yes it hearts B: you can think and learn of how not to crash C: eventually not crash! then theres D to Z and thats road hazards. like white line of death.

[CHOPPA]

I only read the original post but seems like you did good!! I did almost exactly the same thing except i was hauling, i was in a corner and the cop was coming the opposite way. I put my foot down and the bike picked itself up too. Bloody hurt! Nice save id say

[racefactory]

close. i think everyone should ride a push bike till they crash so they get a feel of what it can be like roughly. or do motorcross for a bit and crash more so A: you feel how crashing is.. yes it hearts B: you can think and learn of how not to crash C: eventually not crash! then theres D to Z and thats road hazards. like white line of death.

That's the way. Do it on a bicycle.

Ride it over wet grass or smooth wet concrete and brake harder until the front wheel skids to get comfortable with the feeling (it's exactly same on a motorcycle) and you can try keep the bike up for as long as possible with the front wheel locked. Then you can try with your motorcycle in a wet parking lot but you will probably find your rear wheel just comes into the air instead as there is still quite a bit of grip on many surfaces.

On a motard you can save the front with your foot down quite easily if you lean it too far as the bike is very light and the long bars makes for responsive steering but on a big sport bike I'd like to see someone do it.

I've found as long as you are expecting it to happen and are waiting for it, it's not hard to correct a moment with the front. If it's a panic situation and you are not thinking about that tyre but rather staring at the barrier or something then it could be bad.

[tigertim20]

On a motard you can save the front with your foot down quite easily if you lean it too far as the bike is very light and the long bars makes for responsive steering but on a big sport bike I'd like to see someone do it.

.

yah, Ive heard lots of people contribute themselves saving a bin in those circumstances to putting a foot down, but I think that other reactions they make that they arent aware of, like increasing throttle, are larger contributing factors than the realise.

[Beren]

You seemed like a lovely young man when we met the other weekend. I would like to spend more time getting to know you, therefore I dont want you to kill yourself on the road anytime soon. Slow down :yes:

Leave a bit earlier for work if timing is an issue. By all means lane split, but do it with care and consideration to other road users ao you can infact split past a copper without panicking.

*Sniff* Aww mom that's sweet. Yes I do need to just leave the house earlier - was in a hurry again this morning stupidly. No antics or even close misses but realised that i was going a touch too quick and needed to back off a little.

That's the way. Do it on a bicycle. Completely agree, I commuted for 2 years in the UK on a pushbike - 15kms each way. Did it in all seasons and when you have road tyres on a bike sheet ice is real interesting. Also used to do a fair ammount of mountain biking though probably tamer than what most kiwi's would call mountain biking - just fast trail work. I am pretty used to the front wheel sliding all over the place on a pushbike. The problem is my reactions are trained to a reasonable degree to deal with that - hence the foot.
And yes I have had plenty of offs on push bikes - and trail bikes. And my fair share of gravel rash as a kid, but thankfully at low enough speeds or with enough protection that they were just massive grazes nothing serious.

[Newo]

Watch out for tar snakes on the road too. Little patches of black to cover up cracks. I've had a few rear wheel wiggles slips going over those, but they're a lot more dangerous if you're in a biggish lean.


It's quite ironic that I'd stumble apon this thread the day after I fall victum to a front wheel slip.

It's true also, what they say about most accidents happening in the last 2k's or so from your own house.

Just yesterday afternoon I was on my way home after some shopping, goin down the same stretch of road I've travelled on atleast 1000 times. It's a nice S curve after a round-about. I was so used to riding down here that I wasn't paying attention to my speed. Realised I was coming up to the corner a little fast I eased the front break. Only I was riding on one of those awful black lines mentioned before. The front locked up much easier than I expected and my only reflex was to let go of the breaks. I was still coming up on the corner and I thought the front had gripped. Atleast it felt as though it gripped. I slowly started to lean towards the corner and down she went. It all happend so smooth and slow that I didn't really realise what was going on until I noticed the bike was still heading straight. By then I had reached the point of no return. Did a nice little 50k slide 10-15 meters across to the outside of the corner. Thankfully it was a right hand bend, no traffic and I didn't hit anything aside from the curb of the footpath and onto a driveway.

One of the few days I wore jeans instead of my bike pants. I've got cuts and scrapes on my right knee but thats about it. Tore up a tiny bit of my jacket though. Bike came out of it mechanically, right hand side fairing, front and screen damaged though.

My own fault though, I simply had a lapse of concentration because I felt like I knew the road and conditions well enough.

Reading the title of the thread, I actually thought there would be a few things you could do in the event of a front wheel slide. Like perhaps turning towards the opposite direction or maybe related to weight transfer or rear break?

There's no excuses for my incident, I realise I was in the wrong before the slide had begun and that the best way to correct is to prevent. I'm just a little surprised that there's absolutely nothing you can do once your in that situation.

[BMWST?]

yep a front wheel slide s hard to come back from.

[sgtp]

I joined the "Front wheel slipping out from under the bike" club this past sunday. FWSOFUTB? Was coming down the paekakariki hill toward hwy 1, going only about 40kmh around a lefthander. I think the front lost its traction because a hump in the road surface unweighted the front tire, and I foolishly touched the front brake enough to lock it and lowside. In addition to these details, I suspect that my mind was wandering. This experience will be a hard lesson not to ride unless my attention and concentration is 100% into the ride.

Damage was fairing, indicator, windscreen, center-stand acted as a frame slider and is now all twisted, dent in muff from center-stand twisting, small dent in tank, very repairable twist in forks, but what worries me the most is that the gear lever got a good bang too. I bent the shift lever out hoping I could ride home, but its not wanting to shift nicely just between N and 1. Could I have damaged the trans? In addition to that, the engine might be f-ed somehow, running on one cylinder or something, because it did not want to start and stay running. It would die after giving it gas. I can fix the cosmetic stuff, but I am worried about the engine/trans, so PM me if you have any ideas. :weep:

Oh yeah, what about me? I came out with nothing more than a sore/stiff knee and ankle from the bike falling on me, don't even have bruises! I took a good hit in the shoulder, but the jacket worked great. I do think I need better protecting boots than the second hand SIDIs I wear, though.

I have locked up the front wheel on my scooter, in the wet, while riding in a straight line. I was nearly stopped, and was able to put a foot down to catch myself as I wobbled, but my heel didnt feel good for a week. AS for my story above, this all happened so fast, and even if my head was more focused, I don't think I would have gotten a foot out to catch myself (and break my leg?)

[LBD]

-After some advice ....
-I am starting to pick up speed a little.:yes:
-at a reasonable pace wearing my bright flourescent learners jacket.
-over zealous braking,
-and the front end decides enough is enough and slips sideways.:gob:
-Obviously I was going a little too quick for my ability
- as an emergency braking manuever in the conditions was not controlled.
-However, if the front end goes out on a road bike is it already too late?

I reckon you are telling porkies...you are not really a learner rider from Auckland are you?

You are a research engineer for Rossi's (Formerly Stoner,s) Ducati Moto GP team looking for inspiration to solve the Desmodeci front end traction problem.....isn't that so? Guess its logical you should choose NZ to conduct your research...the home of back yard inginuity and free thinking and all...

[The Singing Chef]

Had my front slide out on me twice now, recovered the first one...not the 2nd. First was along ridge road and the was some gravel i hadn't seen which placed itself under my front tyre, slid briefly then managed to get the bike around the corner thank god.

Next was at Nass practicing emergency braking maneuverers, held the slide pretty well apparently, then bang onto my side. bloody annoying if you ask me.

[Beren]

And there was me being angry with myself for missing NASS several weeks on the trot ;)

I will definitely be back, just one thing after another meaning I would be pushing the envelope too much and be riding knackered which I try not to do.

Parts of bike control are starting to become more instinctive now... definitely still need more practice - and hopefully will be back along to NASS before too long. Long days and lots of K's are not conducive to doing stuff in the evenings though.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

If the front is 'pushing' it generally means the front tyre is carrying more of the bikes weight than it can handle. Can be because you close the throttle, or brake,
In a turn. The answer is to take some of the weight off the front tyre by adding a little more throttle, and 'unloading' the front. Once the weight comes off the tyre hooks up again. Of course tyre choice, pressure, and road / track surface all come
Into it as well. Try a track day, you'll learn heaps.

[ClutchITUP]

I watched a shop monkey with big side burns once sitting on my bike(600RR) walking it thru his bike shop. We were talking an mucking around. He had his feet on the groung an he jammed the front brakes on the slippery shop floor. The front slipped away he just let the brake go and the bike popped back to standing. I guess Im try to say you dont have to be out on the road doing speed to practise you an your bikes limits.
If you want to test you an your bikes braking limits do it in a controlled enviroment. Slippery floor at walking pace with your feet already down ready to catch it sounds safe to me.
Repitition an knowing what to expect when it happens again cant hurt

[Rocket]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=98e_1262605863

The Snake

[GrayWolf]

Quote Originally Posted by Ferkletastic View Post
Quite honestly you shouldn't be splitting at speed in the rain as a newbie (even as a non-newbie really). Especially only a couple weeks into riding. The lines are slippery and car drivers are worse than usual in the rain.
Basically chill on the speed a bit, practise your emergency braking (like CFWB said, brake progressively always, never just grab a handful especially in the wet and even more especially on wet painted lines).
The best rule of thumb I've heard for splitting is that really you shouldn't be doing it over about 40k, slower in the rain for obvious reasons. The margins for error are small as and car drivers will not see you fluoro or not. This time you had to brake for a cop, next time it could be because suddlenly there's a van pulling across directly in front of you and the argument "They should have been looking" won't unbreak you or your bike.


Wise words indeed, and my thoughts also, given the Conditions/Rider experience.

Funny thing is, in the rant and rave section recently there was this thread

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139403-Wellington-motorway-7.30am-ZX-9R-vs-blue-Falcon

Interesting reading as to how there are so many opposite idea's on lane splitting. Best thing I would say to the OP of this current thread? the two quoted posters are giving you sound advice....... Had you been travelling at 80kph? Your outcome could have been a lot nastier.

[actungbaby]

good reactions mate but like others say just stay calm sweeze the brake front and back toghter athough back just steddy the bike front slows you much more
yeah i fell of breaking on white line that i was in hurry late for work (yet again)
and that was 20 years ago u dont forget and learn, thats how we do.
you did well to keep bike upright i did same thing on my xl100 k2 dam hurt my foot though , hit judder bar only going 20 kph in car park but supesion was loose
on back and swung whole bike around nasty


After some advice this morning, had rather too close a call on the way in to work.

Coming in on the Northern I lane split between traffic - now mid way through my second week and I am starting to pick up speed a little.:yes:

So this morning I am drifting through the traffic at a reasonable pace wearing my bright flourescent learners jacket. It is raining, but not overly heavilly. the traffic is all behaving itself with a nice sized gap so I am doing close on 60kph. Suddenly I notice in the gap two cars in front is a police motorbike. :blink::eek:

Thought process - Police, I'm going fast enough to be an issue, and I'm wearing a bright yellow Flourescent thing with 'L' Plates on it, and I'm on the motorway where I'm not supposed to be anyway, best I stop splitting then.:facepalm:

So in a slight panic I grab a handful of the front brake. Wet road, over zealous braking, then the already struggling front tyre finds the white line and the front end decides enough is enough and slips sideways.:gob:

The bike going over kicked in some very old motorcross instincts and with the application of my right boot on the road made it upright and past the copper straight and level. I'm suprised he couldn't smell me though!

Now apart from a slightly aching right hip, me and the bike are fine. Not sure if the copper wasn't paying any attention to what he should have seen in his mirrors but as I wandered past him at about 35k's he didn't bat an eyelid.:innocent:

Obviously I was going a little too quick for my ability - as an emergency braking manuever in the conditions was not controlled. It was the hazzard I wasn't expecting that made me panic and not react correctly - next time speed will be shed more calmly or not at all. A ticket is far far better than being under a car!

However, if the front end goes out on a road bike is it already too late? Or is there anything other than putting your foot out that you can do to save the situation?

[CHOPPA]

If the front is 'pushing' it generally means the front tyre is carrying more of the bikes weight than it can handle. Can be because you close the throttle, or brake,
In a turn. The answer is to take some of the weight off the front tyre by adding a little more throttle, and 'unloading' the front. Once the weight comes off the tyre hooks up again. Of course tyre choice, pressure, and road / track surface all come
Into it as well. Try a track day, you'll learn heaps.

Pretty good advice right there

[Beren]

Pretty good advice right there

Holy thread revival batman :) I'm through my first 6000 Km now...

I would say that I am nearly in a position to start actually learning to ride... apart from having been hit by a car on Monday! That said I managed to keep it rubber side down still so perhaps I have learned something.

[CHOPPA]

Holy thread revival batman :) I'm through my first 6000 Km now...

I would say that I am nearly in a position to start actually learning to ride... apart from having been hit by a car on Monday! That said I managed to keep it rubber side down still so perhaps I have learned something.

You might wanna use a quote from a few posts before me...

[buzzard]

15 years on a bike, most of it in London traffic and I had the front wheel go out on me last week. I hit the ground with my knee, which managed to cushion the bike!. Fortunately I had some decent armour and gear on which protected me considerably.

I wasnt going fast, but the roads were wet. I just tapped the front brake lightly and the wheel went, so I am assuming that there was some oil or diesel on the road. There was nothing I could do except roll to the white cats eyes to get out of the way of the cars and trucks. Fortunately a good trucker stopped and a he and a lady in a car helped me out.

Thanks to St Johns and the biker that stopped to move my bike.

I guess to conclude, despite being careful and experienced, you need to be prepared to have an accident on a bike. Wear good gear, ride safely and within your limits and be careful becuase accidents do happen.

Cheers