CBR250R vs Ninja 250R vs Hyosung(ATK)250R (MCN Review)

[jaffaonajappa]

USA versions, but the articles still an okay read.

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/features/2011Apr250s.pdf
:scooter:

[EJK]

Wow that's taking ages to load...

Also I want a video not a pdf :(

Edit: 14 Megabytes.

[jaffaonajappa]

Wow that's taking ages to load...

Also I want a video not a pdf :(

Edit: 14 Megabytes.

1. I want some a holiday with Pippa.
2. Your welcome.

[Hispid]

Very well written article. Answers alot of questions.

[Urano]

1. I want some a holiday with Pippa.


just to know...
italian "pippa" means the only respected mate of every man... :D

[steve_t]

So has Hyosung been rebranded in the US? Is it going to change here?

[sil3nt]

So has Hyosung been rebranded in the US? Is it going to change here?Read the first paragraph. Don't worry i didn't and it had me wondering for awhile!

*edit*
Ok not first paragraph but its here anyway


The third challenger arrives thanks to Korea’s S&T Motors
(formerly known as Hyosung). Utah-based ATK has made a
multi-year, $100-million deal with S&T to rebadge some familiar Hyosung models, and after further development, eventually
manufacture them in the US. One of these is the GT250R, a
sportbike that mirrors the look of the Hyosung GT650R midsized sportbike. In place of the 650R’s liquid-cooled 90° V-twin,
the GT250R carries a free-revving air/oil-cooled 75° V-twin .
So there you have it. With three solid contenders, it was time
to wring their necks and see who makes the best little sportbike
in motorcycling. We figured it would be close, but in the end we
had no idea how close.

[SMOKEU]

What's the point in a single cylinder CBR? Honda made some pretty good CBR250s back in the '80s, and the new ones are nowhere near as good. Well done Honda for ruining a very good bike.

[sil3nt]

What's the point in a single cylinder CBR? Honda made some pretty good CBR250s back in the '80s, and the new ones are nowhere near as good. Well done Honda for ruining a very good bike.Blame the laws of other countries. The market for a 4 cylinder 250 is very small.

Sounds like this new CBR is actually pretty damn good (if you bother to read the article at all).

[jaffaonajappa]

Sounds like this new CBR is actually pretty damn good (if you bother to read the article at all).

Concur. Too bad its a Honda tho.

And....note the more recent 250's may have sporty looks, but there seems to be a general trend here. They are getting slower and perhaps heavier - but easier to ride and perhaps more fun as as a commuter / learners machine.

The CBR doesnt really strike me as a bike Honda intended to race against older 250 fours.

[SMOKEU]

Blame the laws of other countries. The market for a 4 cylinder 250 is very small.

Sounds like this new CBR is actually pretty damn good (if you bother to read the article at all).

I'm not saying it's a bad bike, it's just that they should have named it something else, other than "CBR".

[hayd3n]

I'm not saying it's a bad bike, it's just that they should have named it something else, other than "CBR".

so what does cbr mean?

[SMOKEU]

so what does cbr mean?

You'd think it was Hondas range of high revving, straight 4 sports bikes.

[Ender EnZed]

The Kawi topped our performance trials; the Ninja 250R was
able to rev its way to a 97.7–mph terminal velocity and accelerate
from 0–60 mph in 7.89 sec. Its best quarter-mile time was
15.73 sec., @ 80.56 mph. By comparison, the Honda’s best top
speed was 91.2 mph, its best 0–60 mph time was 8.79 sec., and
its best quarter-mile run was 16.32 sec., @ 75.83 mph. The ATK
managed a top speed of 90.7 mph with a quarter-mile time of
16.78 secs. @ 75.09 mph and a 0-60 mph time of 9.72.

Modern 250s are slow.

[jaffaonajappa]

Modern 250s are slow.

Pretty sure the Aus & NZ versions are faster - the yank version using catalytic systems still yea?

[steve_t]

Read the first paragraph. Don't worry i didn't and it had me wondering for awhile!

*edit*
Ok not first paragraph but its here anyway

Yeah, I read that but wasn't sure if the Utah based firm, ATK, would have any influence over the name here. S&T Motors doesn't quite have the same ring to it.


What's the point in a single cylinder CBR?

Learner/entry level bike - cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to maintain

[Urano]

They are getting slower and perhaps heavier - but easier to ride and perhaps more fun as as a commuter / learners machine.


the fact is in the 80-90's bikers had learned how to ride on sporty little 50cc and 125cc 2 strokes, which were light, agile and powerful.
when they had to move up, the "big bike" was a highly specialistic 500 or 600.

then the market of mini sport bikes have been killed: here by the pollution regos, and the emerging countries still need small moped and scooters.

the result is that now 250cc 4 strokes are something similar to olds 125 2 strokes, with the added problem of factory cost management needed in crisis times.

our old 125s were almost all monocylinder.
it was good for us, it could be good now.

now when you move up you land often on surface-to-surface missiles of 1000cc.
ya, they are surely easier to ride than most of the old 500, but they still have insane performances.

i believe it's a good thing: they are trying to recreate "real" entry level bikes to teach new bikers how to ride. what actually is considered an "entry level" bike is often a relatively heavy and powerful 600cc with some cost-effective structural choice which doesn't truly permit training and learning without risking the life...

i often wondered if it would have been possible (and enjoyable) to go back on an old aprilia futura 125. i've even found a guy, last summer, who sold one for 500 euro.
even taking count of the need to completely dismantle and rebuilt the engine and check the frame, it would have been a good result with a cost of maybe 1000-1200 euros total.
but at the end i remained on my er6: after all i am already on the higher side...
now i'm in evaluation for a new hornet s (ya, the cbr600f, but i can't call it with that name: still have too much respect for the real one...)


Pretty sure the Aus & NZ versions are faster - the yank version using catalytic systems still yea?

why? are you not?

[jaffaonajappa]

catalytic converters - nope. not usually.

[Urano]

:shit:
so... you are not going after any pollution reducing program as the "euro something"...?

i could maybe understand that in nz it could be not necessary due to the low population, but after all, for what i've seen, in auckland there's a beautiful mess of traffic and jams...
and oz should be worst...

do your politics believe it is not useful?

[Beren]

That really doesn't sound like particularly impressive figures - not sure if my little bandit will beat those numbers, but I'd bet it would be bloody close. Bearing in mind my machine is 14 years old that seems a little backward. Would have been interested to see if they could have got a couple of stock IL4's just to compare against.

[sil3nt]

4 cylinder bandit with 40-45hp vs 1 cylinder CBR with 30 HP yeah i would hope your bandit beats their figures!

[ducatilover]

It's sad that 250cc bikes have gone backwards.
They don't handle as well.
They don't go as well.
They don't stop as well.
If we still got 4 cyl 250cc bikes they would probably be uber expensive though.

One thing I can't understand is why the VTR250 that replaced the Spada has less power/torque.... why not keep the same tooling and keep the VTR at 40hp? I imagine the sales would have been far greater when compared to the Hyosung and Kawasaki, with the possibility of the competition making better bikes.
They aren't even a shadow of the 250 4T heyday. :facepalm:

[aprilia_RS250]

Are those hp and torque numbers correct, shit they're low!

So in like a decade when all the 80-90s CBRs, rgvs etc are gone/binned/banned new riders will be learning to ride on a 2 wheel bicycles that give em ~20hp, then they'll jump on 200hp 1000cc bike....:scooter:

[Ender EnZed]

It's sad that 250cc bikes have gone backwards.
....
They don't stop as well.


Really? That Ninja stopped from 60mph in 37.0 metres and the others weren't far behind. I have no idea what old 250s would manage but I doubt it would be less than that.

[ducatilover]

Really? That Ninja stopped from 60mph in 37.0 metres and the others weren't far behind. I have no idea what old 250s would manage but I doubt it would be less than that.
The CBR250RR was a smidge over 35 meters, the ZXR250C was around the same, the two strokes like the NSR/RS/RGV/TZR were reportedly slightly better on the brakes.
I had a magazine article somewhere.

The soft suspension on the newer 250cc bkes does not help their case at all.

[Beren]

4 cylinder bandit with 40-45hp vs 1 cylinder CBR with 30 HP yeah i would hope your bandit beats their figures!

Aye - I don't know what mine is pumping out now was the only thing. Also took SH16 with the inlaws and the Bandit kept up nicely - the only thing slowing it down really was me! That said I think it sat in the 12-15,000 rpm band for almost the entire trip. It has to be up there to kick out the power it needed to be pushing out of the corners at 100+ which is probably stressing the engine out a little? Up there it was also thirstier than the 750 and 650 I was riding with...

-edit- as for braking - I doubt there is a lot of difference... those new bikes are not any lighter, so as long as the disk can cope you are just talking about traction... so surely it's just the rubber and suspension?

[Ender EnZed]

The CBR250RR was a smidge over 35 meters, the ZXR250C was around the same, the two strokes like the NSR/RS/RGV/TZR were reportedly slightly better on the brakes.


I stand corrected. Do you know what the figures for the older 4 stroke twins were like?

[ducatilover]

I stand corrected. Do you know what the figures for the older 4 stroke twins were like?
My VT250 Spada with proper fork oil and EBC pads seemed to out stop the Hyosung, never got the chance to compare with the Kawasaki though. It may have been rider + superior feel through my brakes though.

[lostinflyz]

can anyone imagine the cost of a modern 250 4 pot??? It would be AT LEAST double the price of the current batch of 250's. (about 6-7k new) So would you willingly pay somewhere in the region of 14-16 thousand dollars for a 250!!!!

I wish honda still made v4 exotic race replica's but the reality is the market for 40-50k race replica bikes is farkin slim too.

[jaffaonajappa]

:shit:
so... you are not going after any pollution reducing program as the "euro something"...?

i could maybe understand that in nz it could be not necessary due to the low population, but after all, for what i've seen, in auckland there's a beautiful mess of traffic and jams...
and oz should be worst...

do your politics believe it is not useful?

Hmmm. interesting point.
Yes - we pride ourselves on Clean and Green. We almost shot ourselves in the collective foot again - trying to "lead the world" - carbon tax credit /buy in.
But no = we dont use catalytic converters - and kiwi bike/car models are usually the 'full power' versions of whats available.

I guess bikers are willing to make concession at times.
I like the kiwi greenery ( :facepalm: ) but also think the day california introduced their 2 stroke and catalytic restrictions was one of the saddest periods ever.

My Guzzi came with some huuuuge heavy as hell exhaust with some kind of restriction just aft of the header pipes - in the crossover. Swapped it for some cycleworks pipes after 1 week - 19hp increase on the dyno, and an aaaaaaawesome sound.

[EJK]

When will we have this baby :rolleyes:




<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pAnGmo_nlYA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jaffaonajappa]

that KTM is "3699". Sterling or Euro...its still a high price premium product.....thinking 9k + here in NZ.

Which is competing with the 250 Ninja/CBR/GTR.
I just bought an R15 for 5k......but at 9k id proly have gone for a 250.

ie. The KTM's market audience is farken small IMO.

[stifmyster1]

Wow the US is market is way different to here. Just check all the prices for those bikes.

The kawsaki comes in at $8.5k
The hyosung at $8k
And the Honda t $7.5k. Adn the say the honda is the most expensive

Plus I have to wonder whether this article is a bit biased. because alot of the problem they listed were not present during my test ride of the hyosung. partularly the brakes and throttle. However it definately was nowhere near as nimble as the ninja. You had to throw your self into it more if you wanted to take the corner better.

Although I was told the reason they did this is they want people to use there 250's get bored and quickly move up tot the 650. And by making them almost identical the people know exactly what it will feel like. only difference being the speed torque and fuel consumption. Which is a good plan. providing all the customers want to move up.

Biggest issue is that moving up incurs a nasty rego increase which would not occur in a 600. so that sorta screw them.

[matdaymon]

Wow the US is market is way different to here. Just check all the prices for those bikes.

The kawsaki comes in at $8.5k
The hyosung at $8k
And the Honda t $7.5k. Adn the say the honda is the most expensive

Plus I have to wonder whether this article is a bit biased. because alot of the problem they listed were not present during my test ride of the hyosung. partularly the brakes and throttle. However it definately was nowhere near as nimble as the ninja. You had to throw your self into it more if you wanted to take the corner better.

Although I was told the reason they did this is they want people to use there 250's get bored and quickly move up tot the 650. And by making them almost identical the people know exactly what it will feel like. only difference being the speed torque and fuel consumption. Which is a good plan. providing all the customers want to move up.

Biggest issue is that moving up incurs a nasty rego increase which would not occur in a 600. so that sorta screw them.

I was thinking that too when I saw the advert for the CBR in the latest kiwirider, thought it was a typo.
And with the Hyo comment about moving up in size with similar characteristics, I don't see myself upgrading to a 650 anytime soon.
With rego costs I want to upgrade to something I get value for money on. Like a 750 or thou. Sadly Hyosung doesnt produce anything in this size so will probably end up on something else. Sad really, I've had next to no problems with mine (an '05 model) and quite like the look of the R's. I also rather like how well the importers, namely Ken, treat me when I do in to oggle the new models at the dealership.

[stifmyster1]

Yea I would have preferred a 600 to be available so you get the added torque without the added rego cost

[davebullet]

Kiwirider and Bike Rider Magazines take note at the brilliant tech / spec sheet comparison at the end of the article. I wish your magazines would have more comprehensive and comparable specifications printed.

[Ender EnZed]

I don't see myself upgrading to a 650 anytime soon.
With rego costs I want to upgrade to something I get value for money on. Like a 750 or thou

Don't rule anything out too quickly. The 650s (Hyo, SV, ER-n) make good step up bikes and in terms of sports twins there isn't really anything comparable until you get up to the 1000s. They'll all feel very fast compared to your 250.

Also, the added rego cost is not a massive amount over a year of motorcycling. Add up what it costs you and I'd be surprised if an extra ~$3 a week makes sense to impact on your choice of bike.

[stifmyster1]

had sort of ruled out CBR becuase i thought it was a carby that was really well tuned. found out nz ones are EFI. so. hyo or cbr. or more to the point. vtwin or single.

[jaffaonajappa]

had sort of ruled out CBR becuase i thought it was a carby that was really well tuned. found out nz ones are EFI. so. hyo or cbr. or more to the point. vtwin or single.

I can see Singles getting popular again soon....wondering if the new Moto3 rules are driving the release of the CBR somehow?

Moto3 is now 250 single 4 strokes yeah?

[quickbuck]

I can see Singles getting popular again soon....wondering if the new Moto3 rules are driving the release of the CBR somehow?

Moto3 is now 250 single 4 strokes yeah?
I think you might be on to it there.... All in the marketing.

Also, the fact it looks like a 1200 if you "squint" will help loads when Honda are selling it at "home".