Hardest riding skill to learn

[nathanwhite]

So after a week of puttering around back roads with the occasional foray into a main road I have found the hardest skill to get the hang of is hill starting. I started wondering how common this is.
So what was the hardest part of riding that you had to learn?

[Jantar]

Probably the hardest skill to learn is to avoid target fixation. This is also the most important life saving skill to learn.

Perhaps I should elaborate. Where you look is where you will go. So when there is a hazard, if you concentrate on that hazrd you will probably hit it. You must learn to look at the gaps and the escape routes, while keeping the hazard in your peripheral vision, not your line of site.

[nathanwhite]

(excuse the n00bness) what's target fixation?
I know I have problems with looking at what I'm trying to avoid when turning but it's not hard.

[maggot]

Hill starting comes with a lot of practice and concentration. I used to loathe it when I first started out, but once you learn, it's not something you forget in a hurry.
Low speed maneuvering can be a bit of a bitch, that's the one I'd say is more difficult. Took me a few embarrassing moments in carparks to get it right, and I've still not quite got it down pat yet :yes:

[Motig]

How about if you look at the power pole instead of where your going you'll hit the pole

[nathanwhite]

Where you look is where you will go. So when there is a hazard, if you concentrate on that hazrd you will probably hit it. You must learn to look at the gaps and the escape routes, while keeping the hazard in your peripheral vision, not your line of site.

ah yes, thats fun

[Jantar]

In my opinion the next most important thing to learn is throttle control to match your speed to the conditions. Its not hard to learn, it just takes a little self discipline.

One of the downsides of limiting learner riders to low powered bikes is that many learn the habit of riding everywhere at full throttle. Its important to break this habit early and learn to read the road ahead and match your speed so that you should never need to brake suddenly in a corner or find yourself too slow for a hiil etc.

[george formby]

Target fixation is definitely something you have to learn, usually in butt puckering circumstances.
Full lock turns on a slippy, cambered surface also require a lot of faith.

From another thread, using your mirrors appropriately is also a tough thing to learn, when you really do not want to look away from what is happening ahead is often the time when you really need to check your mirrors.

Popping a wheelie with your girlfriend on the handlebars takes a bit of practice too.

[Milts]

Other than perhaps target fixation, which is damn difficult to stop doing, I'd say the hardest skill isn't a skill at all.

I'd say judgement, knowing what is safe when, when to back off, and when you're at the edge of your abilities is the hardest and most important aspect of riding a motorcycle, especially on the road.

Sometimes people don't have an appreciation of how easy it is for something to go from fine to fatal, or how close to the edge of their ability they are riding. Sometimes it takes a scare or an accident to learn - if new riders were able to learn it without needing a close call or two first, it would do wonders for crash stats IMHO.

[BMWST?]

hill starts are easy,much easier than in a car.The real skill in motorcycling is recognising hazards,be they "natural"(slippery surfaces,potholes,loose gravel,sand ,diesel) etc or the actions(or lack of) of other road users.

[FJRider]

The greatest skill to learn is mindreading the intentions of those motorists ahead of you ...

Master that and your motorcycling will be accident free ...
(barring YOUR own fuck ups... )

[george formby]

hill starts are easy,much easier than in a car.The real skill in motorcycling is recognising hazards,be they "natural"(slippery surfaces,potholes,loose gravel,sand ,diesel) etc or the actions(or lack of) of other road users.

Yup, comprehensive road craft. Certainly takes the longest to learn.

[maggot]

Other than perhaps target fixation, which is damn difficult to stop doing, I'd say the hardest skill isn't a skill at all.

I'd say judgement, knowing what is safe when, when to back off, and when you're at the edge of your abilities is the hardest and most important aspect of riding a motorcycle, especially on the road.

Sometimes people don't have an appreciation of how easy it is for something to go from fine to fatal, or how close to the edge of their ability they are riding. Sometimes it takes a scare or an accident to learn - if new riders were able to learn it without needing a close call or two first, it would do wonders for crash stats IMHO.

This post makes me think of those "stay in Mantrol" ads.. Good point though.

[pritch]

(excuse the n00bness) what's target fixation?



http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56912&d=1174643096

[Milts]

This post makes me think of those "stay in Mantrol" ads.. Good point though.

Hah, bugger, I hate those ads. I just think the biggest difference between old and "good" riders and young and "beginner" riders is as much judgement as skill.

[jaffaonajappa]

Yeah - pretty much what they all said.....but putting it another way. The most important (survival) skill ya need to learn is actually very similar to the one for all road users. Be willing to slow down early, think that no one else can see you on the road, and Wake Up lol (observe and understand (pre-empt) the movements of others around you)

Takes quite a while to Master it rofl.

[Deano]

In my opinion the next most important thing to learn is throttle control to match your speed to the conditions.

+1

Particularly in instances where an overinflated ego could get you in trouble.

[sgtp]

I chose high-speed maneuvers as the final frontier for me to master. I am the type of noob that before getting the motorsickel, mastered the scooter art of making it around most any turn in wellington with the throttle pegged, and conserving momentum on a lil 50cc. The chicken strips on my scooters tires are nearly gone, and it sounds funny for a scoot, but I scrape the side stand on left-handers from time to time. I was reading twist of the wrist and watching the accompanying video long before I got my bike, so yeah, my desire to corner like a pro is pretty high.

(after rereading the ego crap above, it does sound like a shit talking noob, haha.... If I am on a a barren stretch of road in the wairaiapa, cornering better is what I want to learn, but 75% of my riding in traffic. I want to learn survival skills an accident avoidance. Thats not "hard to learn" per-se, but I'd rather take a class on that before taking a class to learn how to get a knee down.)

[superman]

Wheelies for showing off. Still can't do em :yes:

Everyone always was going on about target fixation when I was learning, however I don't think my brain is built to move it's arms just because it's looking at something. I know people who do this in the car, IE look at the driver side mirror and drift to the right. But I've tried it on the bike, and no matter where I'm scanning or fixing my eyes say at the centre line only, my bike still goes where I want it to go, not where I'm looking. Go figure...

Ooo but the one that takes the most effort and cunning is reading traffic definitely. If you can do that well you can save yourself from many a scary situation.

[MSTRS]

There is only ONE skill that is hard to learn.
Staying safe.
It consists of thousands of parts amongst bike handling, environment, yourself....some of which are easy for some, difficult for others. But collectively, those individual parts will always take a lifetime to learn (or not...:innocent:)

[Maki]

The hardest and most useful skill to learn is proper situational awareness. That means understanding the situation you are in at any given time, the hazards it contains and how to minimize any risk. I sometimes find myself slowing down and taking stock when I feel that drivers are behaving in a strange and unpredictable way. This has proved itself to be a sound strategy... Another part of situational understanding is understanding dangerous road configurations where you need to take extra caution. Yet another is understanding the quality of road surfaces and what they mean for traction.

The skills mentioned in the original post should not be hard to learn compared to this.

With respect to target fixation, I consider it a good thing. Use target fixation for good, to get you where you want to go. Never for evil, to go where you do NOT want to be.

[spookytooth]

You forgot "Not showing off" that one takes years
'

[george formby]

You forgot "Not showing off" that one takes years
'

Took me 6 months & 2 write offs when I was 17.:facepalm:

[spookytooth]

Took me 6 months & 2 write offs when I was 17.:facepalm:
bloody hell thats actuly fast learning :)

[Bikemad]

stopping.......

[rustyrobot]

I think the thing I have found hardest to learn is not to freeze or panic when something out of sorts happens - like leaning deep into a corner and finding a large patch of gravel/mud/cowshit in the middle of the road half-way round. I think Keith Code called it "Survival Reactions" in his book Twist of the Wrist. That is - Survival Reactions that don't actually help. The best things to do in those situations is not those things that your body wants to do naturally - tense up, straighten up, throttle off.

Of course I haven't tried doing a wheelie with my girlfriend sitting on the handlebars yet, so that might be the harder skill to master.

[fokky]

stoppies,its got to be stoppies.hardest skill to master.aspecially on the harley:shit:

[unstuck]

On southland roads,and keeping the bike up when you do find it.:woohoo:

[bogan]

I ticked them all, as motorcycle mastery is the hardest, practice them all :scooter:

[PrincessBandit]

Low speed maneuvering can be a bit of a bitch,

That's my choice of the lot. As a girlie I don't really have the desire to show off or do tricky stunting (besides not being able to afford all the bike and body repairs while going through the process of learning them); I also don't have any particular ego issues. However, puny wee arms and short leggies, combined with heavy bike - overbalancing at low speed turns is my biggest concern.

A few times I've been able to manhandle the bandit from not going past the tip point, and that's been largely through the old "keep your head and eyes up, don't look at the ground" technique. I've put it down a few times and each ends up with either a broken clutch lever knob or brake lever knob or mirror... too expensive to do too often! Off to the gym :shit:

[george formby]

That's my choice of the lot. As a girlie I don't really have the desire to show off or do tricky stunting (besides not being able to afford all the bike and body repairs while going through the process of learning them); I also don't have any particular ego issues. However, puny wee arms and short leggies, combined with heavy bike - overbalancing at low speed turns is my biggest concern.

A few times I've been able to manhandle the bandit from not going past the tip point, and that's been largely through the old "keep your head and eyes up, don't look at the ground" technique. I've put it down a few times and each ends up with either a broken clutch lever knob or brake lever knob or mirror... too expensive to do too often! Off to the gym :shit:

It takes a huge amount of confidence (and practice) to maneuver a big bike at slow speed, relying on a positive throttle to keep the bike up while you do a u'y or some thing similar.
I have watched those gymkhana videos where the riders are almost scraping their footrests doing figure 8's at walking pace.
Much respect!!!:yes:

[MSTRS]

It takes a huge amount of confidence (and practice) to maneuver a big bike at slow speed, relying on a positive throttle to keep the bike up while you do a u'y or some thing similar.
I have watched those gymkhana videos where the riders are almost scraping their footrests doing figure 8's at walking pace.
Much respect!!!:yes:
Strange as it sounds, I reckon a heavy bike is easier to manouevre at low speed. Something to do with being more stable? Or requiring greater rider weight shifts?
You too, can have such respect. Doing just that is part of a RRRS course.

[george formby]

Strange as it sounds, I reckon a heavy bike is easier to manouevre at low speed. Something to do with being more stable? Or requiring greater rider weight shifts?
You too, can have such respect. Doing just that is part of a RRRS course.

Que?

I'm always keen to upskill but even after learning to ride on a trials bike I still try to avoid putting myself in such a tight situation. PM if you want.

Sorry, BOT.

[MSTRS]

Tight figure 8s are not a requirement in the real world of riding. But they are a useful exercise in showing you what you and your bike are capable of, particularly in terms of bike control. Many riders avoid doing U-turns because they find such a manouevre difficult. Full-lock circles and figure 8s are a brilliant way of making u-turns a doddle.
All it is, is confident bike control.

Recently, I attended a training day, where one of the exercises was weaving through a line of cones, using brake and throttle to keep the bike at walking speed. I couldn't do it on a little 125cc, but no problem on an old XJ900. Neither bike was mine, and I'd never ridden either of them before. Perhaps I am just more used to a heavy-ish bike? But I was convinced that the bigger bike was more stable, due to requiring much more rider input to upset it's balance.

[riffer]

I think overcoming the survival reaction is the hardest one to learn of all. Despite everything I've learned, and 32 years of riding, I still find when faced with a nasty situation, the instinct to flinch and tighten the arms on the bars is still there.

I've tried and tried to wean it out of me but the survival instinct in the brain is so strong. I can put the survival instinct at the forefront of blame for EVERY accident I've had, and it always comes down to the same thing - that flinching gets me in more trouble than not - a grab at the brakes, a push at the bars that's just not appropriate, and I've been on the deck.

I don't even know if it's a skill to learn but it's still, after all these years, my #1 thing to overcome. It's not a fear thing, it's just my body taking over from my brain even when I know what to do. Thank goodness it's very rarely I get into these situations.

[gsx83esd]

Hardest skill to learn would be getting the wife on side to get the bike in the first place , cheers , ps , i won !:yes:

[James Deuce]

Not riding with your balls.

[tigertim20]

So after a week of puttering around back roads with the occasional foray into a main road I have found the hardest skill to get the hang of is hill starting. I started wondering how common this is.
So what was the hardest part of riding that you had to learn?

Youre all wrong. the hardest skill is a stoppie-kiss.

no no wait, hardest skill is . . . riding in a manner worthy of Katman's compliments. - but nobody's ever done that.

[DrunkenMistake]

Youre all wrong. the hardest skill is a stoppie-kiss.

no no wait, hardest skill is . . . riding in a manner worthy of Katman's compliments. - but nobody's ever done that.

Seeming as Katman hasnt replied yet,
You should PM him and ask, Im sure he will explain to you, if you find any of the above challenging then you should not be on the road at all, its just plain silly!.








On a serious note, I found it hard doing hillstarts, not alot of hills around my way so I didnt get to practice, but once you get it once your all good, Filtering is easyy just make sure you have enough gap and just commit, if you hesitate then just stop and wait in the que.

[FJRider]

Youre all wrong. the hardest skill is a stoppie-kiss.

PM Skidmark ... I'm sure he'll be pleased to assist you with this ... :innocent:


no wait, hardest skill is . . . riding in a manner worthy of Katman's compliments. - but nobody's ever done that.

OK ... PM Katman then ... :innocent:

[Ratti]

how to crash in such a way to get yourself away from the bike. Seriously, trail riders do it as a matter of course, us road riders tho have to learn the hard way. And seldom get it right. Riffer touched on this topic.
Katman has a LOT to say about it

[GrayWolf]

do not post in the wrong thread, dumbass!!

[bogan]

how to crash in such a way to get yourself away from the bike. Seriously, trail riders do it as a matter of course, us road riders tho have to learn the hard way. And seldom get it right. Riffer touched on this topic.
Katman has a LOT to say about it

Like that if you need this skill, you haven't learn the others properly :innocent: Trail riders also have the benefit of different riding position, lighter bikes, different terrain, and less bits to get caught up with on the bike. Personally I don't try to get away from it when I come off on dirt, but more often than not end up that way.

[fatzx10r]

no hander front flip is a hard one master

[cheshirecat]

Getting a full faired over laiden bike with a dog on the back over a footbridge and down round the tight corners the other side with a couple of steps thrown

[yod]

Not riding with your balls.

Which somehow becomes a lot easier once you're married.

[Maha]

Low speed maneuvering is up there for most I would imagine?

Progressive or emergency braking is a skill well worth practicing over and over again, even when you dont need to use...thats a good time to practice it, because you are under no pressure.
Saved my arse thrice now.

[Oblivion]

The hardest thing that I found while learning to ride, was indeed the dreaded hill start. After I had that down, I just had to learn not fixate on targets. Still going on that, but I think that its coming along nicely. I just learnt to check all cars as they came along, including side streets and parked cars. As long as you keep your head moving, while still concentrating on the road, You can hope to avoid target fixation. :yes:

[Oleg]

Am i the only one having trouble with it?

[nathanwhite]

Am i the only one having trouble with it?

yes. :innocent:

(not trying to brag or anything) but I got the basic idea of it on day 2 of riding and use it whenever I'm going fast.

Just find a straight road, get up to speed and nudge the handlebars in the opposite direction. bike leans over and way you go.

[nathanwhite]

And I'm getting the hang of hill starts too now!

Just clutch and throttle slowly and off you go

[James Deuce]

yes. :innocent:

(not trying to brag or anything) but I got the basic idea of it on day 2 of riding and use it whenever I'm going fast.

Just find a straight road, get up to speed and nudge the handlebars in the opposite direction. bike leans over and way you go.

Are you related to DB? That's the most criminally insane description of counter steering I've ever seen written down.

[MSTRS]

Am i the only one having trouble with it?

Can you go round corners at a speed greater than, say, 20kph?
Because, if you can, then you ARE counter steering.

[Maha]

yes. :innocent:

(not trying to brag or anything) but I got the basic idea of it on day 2 of riding and use it whenever I'm going fast.

Just find a straight road, get up to speed and nudge the handlebars in the opposite direction. bike leans over and way you go.

Can also be done using your knees against the tank at slower speeds.


And I'm getting the hang of hill starts too now!

Just clutch and throttle slowly and off you go

...and covering the rear break.

[Usarka]

Everyone always was going on about target fixation when I was learning, however I don't think my brain is built to move it's arms just because it's looking at something. I know people who do this in the car, IE look at the driver side mirror and drift to the right. But I've tried it on the bike, and no matter where I'm scanning or fixing my eyes say at the centre line only, my bike still goes where I want it to go, not where I'm looking. Go figure...

Target fixation usually manifests itself more apparently when you're in an "oh fuck" moment, ie. you've cocked up a corner for whatever reason and you're heading for a tree. The right thing to do is NOT look at the tree but look where you want to go, but this is easier said than done (see riffers post about survival instinct).


PS - I hated learning U-turns on hills.

[Hawkeye]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56912&d=1174643096

Love this...:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[terbang]

Self control/discipline.

[Katman]

Situational awareness.

Learning to ride with your eyes constantly on the move. If your eyes are moving your brain is working.

Moving eyes pick up clues that vacant stares miss.

[racefactory]

Knee down in the rain is the hardest skill to learn.

[MSTRS]

No matter how much (or little) practice you get, burying fellow riders does not get easier...

[CRF119]

The target fixation is probobly the most important. Along with looking along way ahead to sport hazards but at the same time avoiding any close up hazards. It takes a lot of training.

Try riding along looking at what is far a head but also what is only 10 meters ahead. Also noting what is coming from drive ways etc on both sides of the road.

So you need to look at everything but concentrate on nothing i guess.

[marty]

yes. :innocent:

(not trying to brag or anything) but I got the basic idea of it on day 2 of riding and use it whenever I'm going fast.

Just find a straight road, get up to speed and nudge the handlebars in the opposite direction. bike leans over and way you go.

omg not a c/s lesson!!. i prefer the pull to the push, but each to their own.

[nathanwhite]

Are you related to DB? That's the most criminally insane description of counter steering I've ever seen written down.

it's not a description, its a brief overview of the operational procedures involved.




...and covering the rear break.
yes and that. I meant that.



No matter how much (or little) practice you get, burying fellow riders does not get easier...
...
..
:blink:
wow. Thats sobering

[barno]

how to crash in such a way to get yourself away from the bike. Seriously, trail riders do it as a matter of course, us road riders tho have to learn the hard way. And seldom get it right. Riffer touched on this topic.
Katman has a LOT to say about it

I remember 20+ years ago my riding instructor said: 'when the crash time comes, you might have 1/2 a second. Stand up on the pegs, get ready to fly, and say goodbye to your bike'.

And I did, clearing the car of the dickstain who right-turned in front of me, totalling only the pair of pants I was wearing. And my bike. Only time I ever felt like throttling someone.

[Jantar]

omg not a c/s lesson!!. i prefer the pull to the push, but each to their own.
Personally I push for right hand turns, and pull for left. But that's because I have absolutely no strength in my left shoulder so effectively ride one armed with the advantage of still having a left hand for clutch, indicators and lights. :innocent:

[James Deuce]

it's not a description, its a brief overview of the operational procedures involved.


Not quite.

The correct operational description is much briefer.

To turn left, push on the left bar. To turn right push on the right.

You can make it a lot more complex with practice by simultaneously pushing and pulling on the correct bar obviously, but this requires practice and finesse.

A good way of practicing the principles of counter steering is to ride one handed along your favourite quiet backroad. This will teach you the exact push and pull pressure required to initiate a turn.

[Camshaft]

lane splitting is something i see done terribly alot too, especialy learners, going up the left hand side of cars BIG NO NO. and when splitting there are generaly 2 cases, nervous and slow = dangerous
overconfident and fast = dangerous
ya gota find the balance, confident and a good speed differential between you and the cars around you.

[The Singing Chef]

lane splitting is something i see done terribly alot too, especialy learners, going up the left hand side of cars BIG NO NO. and when splitting there are generaly 2 cases, nervous and slow = dangerous
overconfident and fast = dangerous
ya gota find the balance, confident and a good speed differential between you and the cars around you.

Mmm alot can happen through slow moving traffic, i'm waiting for the day some dick head decides he doesn't like bikers/lanesplitting and pulls a hard right. it's most definitely an art.

[Bald Eagle]

Mmm alot can happen through slow moving traffic, i'm waiting for the day some dick head decides he doesn't like bikers/lanesplitting and pulls a hard right. it's most definitely an art.

some of our welly comunters do that even though they don't what a motorbike is.:facepalm:

[The Singing Chef]

some of our welly comunters do that even though they don't what a motorbike is.:facepalm:

There must be a little voice in their head that yells at them and screams "pull right, pull hard right!!":shit:

[george formby]

Mmm alot can happen through slow moving traffic, i'm waiting for the day some dick head decides he doesn't like bikers/lanesplitting and pulls a hard right. it's most definitely an art.

Precisely why I'm a lane creeper not a splitter, stationary or slow moving traffic only. Had doors opened on me, had people deliberately try to squish me, been spat at. All in the UK mind you.
Bastards sitting their warm & dry cars listening to radio 1 & I'm trying to make headway before I piss myself from the cold. Ignorant $%^&ers:angry:

[avgas]

How to go and pick motorbike, cool and calmly after you have just arsed off.

Whenever I do I the first thing I think of is "Did someone see me? Fuck someone did! I'm gonna look like such a nob".

[oneofsix]

Precisely why I'm a lane creeper not a splitter, stationary or slow moving traffic only. Had doors opened on me, had people deliberately try to squish me, been spat at. All in the UK mind you.
Bastards sitting their warm & dry cars listening to radio 1 & I'm trying to make headway before I piss myself from the cold. Ignorant $%^&ers:angry:

one of the problems with splitting in stationary traffic is people can get out of their cars. You need the cagers to be moving enough to avoid people hopping out but slow enough that they can't try the sudden lane change and you need to be moving only 5-15 k faster so that if they do try to change lanes with out indicating you have time to react.

[bogan]

How to go and pick motorbike, cool and calmly after you have just arsed off.

Whenever I do I the first thing I think of is "Did someone see me? Fuck someone did! I'm gonna look like such a nob".

Just 'kick-flip' it onto it's wheels, that'd look cool as :yes:

[avgas]

Just 'kick-flip' it onto it's wheels, that'd look cool as :yes:
Oh I do.
Which is why I don't have fairing anymore lol

[slofox]

"Other"
Please specify?
Not getting arrested for riding like a fuckwit...i.e. passing everything on the road - exceeding the speed limit by 50+km/hr - you get the idea...

[nathanwhite]

Not getting arrested for riding like a fuckwit...i.e. passing everything on the road - exceeding the speed limit by 50+km/hr - you get the idea...


That's not hard on a scorpio....
poor thing has trouble getting +30k's past the limit

[phantom67]

Situational awareness I would say is probably THE MOST important skill you can learn. Things like not taking things for granted, don't assume that people will stop at red lights, always assume the worst and develop contingencies.