ANPR vans

[Scouse]

I must be a bit slow did not realise that the NZ Police were using ANPR technology but aparently its been here since January this year appologie if there has aready been a post about this. all you guys riding around with rego's on hold should now be very worried

http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/local/news/number-plate-reading-camera-a-success-police/3938739/

[Scouse]

I must be a bit slow did not realise that the NZ Police were using ANPR technology but aparently its been here since January this year appologie if there has aready been a post about this. all you guys riding around with rego's on hold should now be very worried

http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/loca...olice/3938739/ (http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/local/news/number-plate-reading-camera-a-success-police/3938739/)

[Hopeful Bastard]

Very old news... Been around for quite some time now... Last year even TBH.. August appx from memory..

Remember Driving from Upper Hutt to Lower Hutt Via Trentham.

They had one on the side of the road there along with cops hiding round the corners ready to get ya. 2 in each direction! :blink:

[Scouse]

looking at the photo in the article it looks like they position them on Motorway over bridges and I can well imagin them using them at the Ramarama over bridge they tend to sit up there with there lasers

[Hopeful Bastard]

Yupp. Never doubt them. They are able to Zoom quite some distance and still get ya plate. Even from a Motorway Overbridge!

Beware that cop that is hiding just round the corner from the off ramp!

[Gremlin]

Duplicate thread here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/138083-New-Zealand-Police-now-using-ANPR-vans

Can this one be deleted...

[Scouse]

Duplicate thread here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/138083-New-Zealand-Police-now-using-ANPR-vans

Can this one be deleted...yes please

[Bonez]

Fuck you city folk have all the fun.

[slofox]

"National road policing manager Superintendent Paula Rose last year said most local information was only kept for a few days to a few weeks.

``What we are looking at is people who have warrants out for their arrest, stolen vehicles, vehicles that have been complained of because of some very major event.''I


Yeah. Right.

[gwigs]

Seen today in Glenfield on Kaipatiki Rd, a big white van with two cameras on top facing each way with two plain cop cars at either end of the road.Is this one of those number plate recognition vehicles ?Anyone know ?:Police::Police:

[BoristheBiter]

Seen today in Glenfield on Kaipatiki Rd, a big white van with two cameras on top facing each way with two plain cop cars at either end of the road.Is this one of those number plate recognition vehicles ?Anyone know ?:Police::Police:

sounds like it.

[JimO]

big brother is watching you, and you

[Dadpole]

This is why you should buy an old bike. I gather they have a lot of difficulty reading old black plates.

[paturoa]

You shuld have stopped and taken a photo of it!

[Road kill]

Nah it's a decoy,,the real camera was behind you.:no:

[thehovel]

Yes it was the new camera cars the N/S cops are testing. There read your number plate and instantly MR Plod knows your name, licence number,Rego and warrant. If any of them are illegal your sprung.BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE if Mr Plod types a few keys he can check unpaid fines,arrest warants and any thing on all data bases.Past criminal histroy by type (eg burgler sex offender) Also keep a record of all the cars that pass that way and the time they did it. When they are up and running they generate enough work for 2 bike cops and 4 cars. I believe there is a cop car with one on it's roof.

[FJRider]

With all this revenue gathering ... the goverment could BUY this country soon ... :third:

[nzspokes]

They were doing huge trade in Manukau last week. The bakery they parked out front off were pissed off because when the vans there nobody goes in. Apart from me. All the cops watched me. Then backed off when they saw I was old. :Police:

[Renegade]

With all this revenue gathering ... the goverment could BUY this country soon ... :third:

i dont think the iwi will sell it back...

[The Lone Rider]

Yes it was the new camera cars the N/S cops are testing. There read your number plate and instantly MR Plod knows your name, licence number,Rego and warrant. If any of them are illegal your sprung.BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE if Mr Plod types a few keys he can check unpaid fines,arrest warants and any thing on all data bases.Past criminal histroy by type (eg burgler sex offender) Also keep a record of all the cars that pass that way and the time they did it. When they are up and running they generate enough work for 2 bike cops and 4 cars. I believe there is a cop car with one on it's roof.

If those are snapping away, and rapidly displaying names, addresses etc etc... is that not a breech of privacy? First I've heard of them, so I have no idea how they work.

I prefer it when they are only checking up on you when you've given them an actual reason to do so.

[swbarnett]

If those are snapping away, and rapidly displaying names, addresses etc etc... is that not a breech of privacy?
Unfortunately, from a legal stand point, you're in a public place so you're fair game.

This sort of crap really pisses me off. They claim it's in the interests of creating a "safe" society. But they seem to have completely missed the fact that "Big Brother" produces exactly the opposite. It is respect that creates the sort of society that's worth living in - respect for your fellow citizen and government alike. Being constantly watched by TPTB creates resentment and destroys that respect.

A CEO of a major US corporation was once quoted as saying that he'd rather have one employee in every hundred skiving off and doing absolutely nothing to earn their salary than have the rest of the work force constantly on edge from being watched.

[The Lone Rider]

Unfortunately, from a legal stand point, you're in a public place so you're fair game.


I'm pretty sure if I stood by the road taking photos of people, doing what I can to grab details... the police would should up eventually, and ask me what I was doing.

[swbarnett]

I'm pretty sure if I stood by the road taking photos of people, doing what I can to grab details... the police would should up eventually, and ask me what I was doing.
Irrespective, it's still quite legal. It comes under the same law that the paparazzi use to photograh celebrities in their houses. As long as you're standing on public (or your own) property you can take a photo of whatever you like.

[James Deuce]

Time to deploy the RPGs.

[spannermad]

The Poms use these number plate recognition cameras to check for rego and the compulsory insurance that they have over there. No insurance, vehicle impounded on the spot.
Does this mean we will have compulsory 3rd party insurance on all vehicles in the next year or so??? And Nick the Dick will be able to see if we are all paying our ACC levies?? Not a bad thing the insurance, but I don`t like the NPR camera idea.

[bsasuper]

Nothing new, they started testing this system about 2 years ago.Whatever you do, do not shine a laser into the lens of cheap CCD cameras.

[James Deuce]

Nothing new, they started testing this system about 2 years ago.Whatever you do, do not shine a laser into the lens of cheap CCD cameras.

That would be the laser targeting device on the RPG launcher, yeah?

[st00ji]

frankly i prefer this method to the road block version where they check every car by hand, at least if you are legal you get to just keep driving. of course, the type of vehicles we want off the road (no warrant for 2 years etc) are usually owned by the type of people that already have no licence, and no money to pay the essentially meaningless amount of fines they already owe. picking up outstanding arrest warrants FTW.

should modify the car crushing laws to include those kind of drivers too IMHO.

just dont make eye contact.

but dont look shifty not making eye contact.

[Road kill]

If those are snapping away, and rapidly displaying names, addresses etc etc... is that not a breech of privacy? First I've heard of them, so I have no idea how they work.

I prefer it when they are only checking up on you when you've given them an actual reason to do so.

What's been said already,,plus the Gov't is currently working at changing the privacy laws so that you "don't have any",,,,,all in the name of Gangs and money laundering of course.
There's also moves afoot so that next time a police officer runs down an kills somebody on a back country road at night while texting,,or shoots some coconut on the motorway,or does a U turn an kills a bikie,,they will no longer be charged over it.
The time is coming where people like Scumdog an Marty an the rest his mates will be seen as the enemy by far more than just everyday criminals.
All civilisations in the past have imploded,,,might do some more reloading this weekend:2guns:

[Kickaha]

The time is coming where people like Scumdog an Marty an the rest his mates will be seen as the enemy by far more than just everyday criminals.

People like Scumdog will only be seen as the enemy by the truly ignorant

[Scuba_Steve]

Welcome to the start of the end. Next up direct Govt inforcment.
You will obey, you will not question your Govt, your Govt knows best, any hint of questioning will be met with severe punishment, do not challenge the Govt.

[jazfender]

Do the vans pursue and do flashy lights and whatnot, or do they just pass information on?

[BMWST?]

Do the vans pursue and do flashy lights and whatnot, or do they just pass information on?

they just pass info on a guess.In the uk the police cars themselves have the npr cameras,i guess that will come here too.

[DEADX10R]

We need to go back to the days of Mad Max 1... Feral bikies battling it out with the cops on the highways, that'd be shitloads more fun for both sides!

[BoristheBiter]

This is what the governments of the world are trying to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

As documented in this book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Traveler_(novel)

See how our freedom is being taken away by our vehicles being photographed, when will the horror all end when will all the good people be allowed to drive around in peace.

If you don't want other people to know what you are doing then stop using the internet, credit cards, banks and anything else the stores information about you and live off the grid.

[BoristheBiter]

We need to go back to the days of Mad Max 1... Feral bikies battling it out with the cops on the highways, that'd be shitloads more fun for both sides!

Fuck i would join the police just for that.

[Usarka]

Remember - if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

[Scuba_Steve]

Remember - if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

:killingme :killingme :killingme good one :laugh:

[DEADX10R]

Haha, yeah if you got to hoon the Interceptor it might be worth it.

Plate recognition is old news, man, on facebook it scans pictures of people's faces and suggests friends to 'tag', and hasn't got one wrong that I have seen. So that means as soon as a picture is uploaded, it is recognising people's faces and linking their names to the picture.

Won't be long before every public place you go, you'll be getting tracked via camera, vehicle, transaction etc.

I don't mind too much as I'm actually not that interesting. I pay my taxes and live clean. Some people wouldn't like the way it's going though...

[BMWST?]

Haha, yeah if you got to hoon the Interceptor it might be worth it.

Plate recognition is old news, man, on facebook it scans pictures of people's faces and suggests friends to 'tag', and hasn't got one wrong that I have seen. So that means as soon as a picture is uploaded, it is recognising people's faces and linking their names to the picture.

Won't be long before every public place you go, you'll be getting tracked via camera, vehicle, transaction etc.

I don't mind too much as I'm actually not that interesting. I pay my taxes and live clean. Some people wouldn't like the way it's going though...

I fail to understand how people can be scared of "big brother" when there is prolly more to fear from joe hacker esp the ammount of info people put on public display on the web....The ammount of info some people have here on kiwibiker makes me:shit:

[Usarka]

Go back in time and live in east germany with the Stasi and tell us you have no problem with big brother.....

[BoristheBiter]

Go back in time and live in east germany with the Stasi and tell us you have no problem with big brother.....

Just a slight difference me thinks.

[BMWST?]

Go back in time and live in east germany with the Stasi and tell us you have no problem with big brother.....

i am not saying that is not the case( and i am sure there are many parrallels) and there may be a time soon where the intrusion becomes too much.But i think at this point in time most people have nothing to fear from big brother in NZ.As i say prolly more to fear from other "white collar" sources,esp the ammount of info a lot of peole give away

[BoristheBiter]

i am not saying that is not the case( and i am sure there are many parrallels) and there may be a time soon where the intrusion becomes too much.But i think at this point in time most people have nothing to fear from big brother in NZ.As i say prolly more to fear from other "white collar" sources,esp the ammount of info a lot of peole give away

I think there are too many people taking to many "truths" from Hollywood movies.

[Spearfish]

I think there are too many people taking to many "truths" from Hollywood movies.

Don't burst the bubble!!

[jazfender]

Quite keen on a thread warning about the whereabouts of these things.

Fuck this revenue monitoring tech.

[slofox]

Won't be long before we are all micro-chipped at birth...

[MIXONE]

Just keep one bike legal and swithch the plate to whatever you are riding and all is sweet.
Oops did I say that?:shit:
Of course I would never contemplate depriving Nix Myth of his fair share of my hard earned $.

[mvw]

I wonder how anxious the police would be about the photo van being photographed? As far as I can see, there is no law against it.

(I'm not advocating doing so, BTW. I was just curious what they looked like and then wondered if there might be problems with the public photographing one, even if it didn't disclose location or identify officers.)

[jazfender]

I wonder how anxious the police would be about the photo van being photographed? As far as I can see, there is no law against it.

I'm sure they would shake in their booties.

[Big Dave]

As far as I can see, there is no law against it.


They now require permission to photograph a Police Officer - or publish the shots anyway. I had to sign a contract last time I did. I'd guess that applied to the kit too.


Not paying your bike Licence fee is a real good idea now hey. That'll show 'em! :laugh:

[Big Dave]

Won't be long before we are all micro-shipped at birth...

A future where everyone is cubed like a Buell Blast and sent abroad!!!!! Nooooooo

[_Shrek_]

The time is coming where people like Scumdog an Marty an the rest his mates will be seen as the enemy by far more than just everyday criminals.
All civilisations in the past have imploded,,,might do some more reloading this weekend:2guns:

I don't think you been on here long enough to make that call for any one except your self :shutup:

[swbarnett]

Remember - if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
You ignorant fool. It's exactly that attitude that gets our freedom rescinded.

In the words if Thomas Jefferson - "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

[swbarnett]

frankly i prefer this method to the road block version where they check every car by hand, at least if you are legal you get to just keep driving.
You may still be driving but your essential liberty has now been revoked.

[swbarnett]

I'm actually not that interesting. I pay my taxes and live clean.
By whose opinion? Are you happy to relinquish all say in the definition of the above?

[swbarnett]

Just a slight difference me thinks.
Maybe at the moment but this is where it's heading.

[swbarnett]

But i think at this point in time most people have nothing to fear from big brother in NZ.
If I thought it would stay as it is now I might agree with you. Ever heard of the boiling frog?

[James Deuce]

You may still be driving but your essential liberty has now been revoked.

It was revoked when the law was changed to allow the Police to apprehend and detain you with no proof of wrongdoing if you refuse a breath test. The law was also changed to allow you to be stopped without suspicion of wrong doing for a breath test at the same time.

[BoristheBiter]

Maybe at the moment but this is where it's heading.

:tugger::tugger::tugger:
That's where i know this threads needing.

[blackdog]

Won't be long before we are all micro-shipped at birth...

Sent off in a very small boat?

[Hawk]

245661try this as a way of beating to radar

[Scuba_Steve]

245661try this as a way of beating to radar

use sidewinder missiles! :yes:, yep that'll work brilliantly :niceone: ...Might instigate more than just a scam tho...

[avgas]

This is why you should buy an old bike. I gather they have a lot of difficulty reading old black plates.
If they can tell your eye colour through the camera.......picking up the plate number is negative is not a problem ;)

[avgas]

You shuld have stopped and taken a photo of it!
I wonder if it will appear in google streetview sometime soon?

[avgas]

That would be the laser targeting device on the RPG launcher, yeah?
Nah they cut out with oversensitivity - its a new-old trick for breakins.
But then again walking around with a green lazer these days also gets you arrested.

[Dadpole]

If they can tell your eye colour through the camera.......picking up the plate number is negative is not a problem

They can pick up my eye colour - from behind? Brown perhaps?

[Max Preload]

http://www.3news.co.nz/New-crime-fighting-tech-raises-privacy-concerns/tabid/423/articleID/166858/Default.aspx
I see the NZ Gestapo are out attempting to defend its invasion on our anonymity and there are even a few chumps who are swallowing their bullshit.

[Berries]

Are we sure it is not some mobile donut unit?

[slofox]

Sent off in a very small boat?


:rofl: Might be better than staying here...perhaps sent to one of these new "independent" oil rig nations.

Damn...another typo...fixed.

[Scoobydoo]

What's been said already,,plus the Gov't is currently working at changing the privacy laws so that you "don't have any",,,,,all in the name of Gangs and money laundering of course.
There's also moves afoot so that next time a police officer runs down an kills somebody on a back country road at night while texting,,or shoots some coconut on the motorway,or does a U turn an kills a bikie,,they will no longer be charged over it.
The time is coming where people like Scumdog an Marty an the rest his mates will be seen as the enemy by far more than just everyday criminals.
All civilisations in the past have imploded,,,might do some more reloading this weekend:2guns:

Do you live in Aramoana?

[oldrider]

Seen today in Glenfield on Kaipatiki Rd, a big white van with two cameras on top facing each way with two plain cop cars at either end of the road.Is this one of those number plate recognition vehicles ?Anyone know ?:Police::Police:

I believe it helps police those people who really don't know whether they are coming or going! :confused:

[tri boy]

VHT Black sprayed on its lens will piss it off for a while.
Plod is getting fat, lazy, and dumb.
Still, can't see one being utilised out Te Pahu way, so I,ll keep breaking the law, and smile as the local trail bike kids do wheelies, helmetless down the road on unregistered unwarranted motox bikes.
:Punk:

[NordieBoy]

In the words if Thomas Jefferson - "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance".

Look where it got him. He's dead.

[huff3r]

They say, if you look straight down it's lense, it can read your thoughts... :confused::laugh:

[Road kill]

I don't think you been on here long enough to make that call for any one except your self :shutup:

I think you'll find I've been on this site since day one.
Some people have probably worked it out already,,but "you" haven't been here long enough yourself mate.

An mate,I don't make calls for "anybody",,I'm just saying what I see today.
An a lot of what I'm seeing is a slowly building middle class ground swell against the obvious double standards of our leaders today.
The fact the Police are being used as Gov't bully boys while they do their best to insulate themselves from responsibility for their own actions when they mess up,,,,well it's happening isn't it.

[Road kill]

Do you live in Aramoana?

Exactly what do the actions of one nutter in Aramoana who should of and would of been in a mental health facility had the gov't of the day not cut health spending in the mental health sector got to do with the NZ police force atempting to avoid responsibility for their actions when those actions cost a member of the public their life ??

Try to stay with the program mate,after all the Police trying to worm their way out being held responsible if they accidently kill "you" really should be of some concern don't you think.

Or is your life also only worth $250 ???,,,,,,well less if the police get their way:Punk::Police:

[avgas]

They can pick up my eye colour - from behind? Brown perhaps?
No only Honda riders would get caught that way.

[Scuba_Steve]

They say, if you look straight down it's lense, it can read your thoughts... :confused::laugh:

I'm safe, I have my tinfoil hat :yes:

[swbarnett]

Look where it got him. He's dead.
And so would you be if you were born in 1743. What's your point?

[BoristheBiter]

I'm safe, I have my tinfoil hat :yes:

Yes but is it good quality or have you used a roll of Pams cheap foil?

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes but is it good quality or have you used a roll of Pams cheap foil?

I only use Mono :msn-wink:

[bikaholic]

I only use Mono :msn-wink:I hang a CD infront of the fairing, never been busted yet, so it does work.

[Swoop]

245661try this as a way of beating to radar
The Sidewinder is not an air-to-ground missile. That then places the rest of the story into doubt.



Aha: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/radar.asp

[slofox]

That then places the rest of the story into doubt.





Pity - it's a good story!

[CookMySock]

Welcome to the start of the end. Next up direct Govt inforcment. You will obey, you will not question your Govt, your Govt knows best, any hint of questioning will be met with severe punishment, do not challenge the Govt.That's happening already. Try arguing with a police officer... :no:

Theres no way to stop them except in the courts.

[Scuba_Steve]

That's happening already. Try arguing with a police officer... :no:

Theres no way to stop them except in the courts.

fixed that for ya

[DEADX10R]

By whose opinion? Are you happy to relinquish all say in the definition of the above?

Well, in my experience worrying about all of this shit doesn't tend to change the outcome. Look at the yanks and the whole 'homeland security' law. In fact, a good example would be the child smacking law here. A non-binding referendum saw 70-odd % of people vote against it, but it didn't change shit. They'll pass whatever laws they want... and until riots and a significant social uprising actually happens, all talk about 'losing our rights' won't change a thing.

[Pseudonym]

Well, in my experience worrying about all of this shit doesn't tend to change the outcome. Look at the yanks and the whole 'homeland security' law. In fact, a good example would be the child smacking law here. A non-binding referendum saw 70-odd % of people vote against it, but it didn't change shit. They'll pass whatever laws they want... and until riots and a significant social uprising actually happens, all talk about 'losing our rights' won't change a thing.

We want our freedoms back;
Step one, bitch about it… No, that didn’t work.
Step two, a little more organised, letters to the editor and general stirrings… Nup
Step three, getting a little heavy with protests and referendums… Still no luck
Step four, angry protests, arrests and lots of noise rallying support… Govt says it’ll look into it sometime after we crash into the Andromeda System.
Step five, riots and a huge uprising in major centres leading to cars being burnt, looting and the odd death.
Govt crack down on subversive elements and uses this as an excuse for a tighter control over us all.

What we could do about it…
A single movement across all racial and social economic divides to starve the controlling power out and then overthrow the predominant bureaucracy and then to cut all ties with world power brokers like the IMF, UN etc.

Only to be replaced by what we have now, but under a new name…

“Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss…”

[huff3r]

We want our freedoms back;
Step one, bitch about it… No, that didn’t work.
Step two, a little more organised, letters to the editor and general stirrings… Nup
Step three, getting a little heavy with protests and referendums… Still no luck
Step four, angry protests, arrests and lots of noise rallying support… Govt says it’ll look into it sometime after we crash into the Andromeda System.
Step five, riots and a huge uprising in major centres leading to cars being burnt, looting and the odd death.
Govt crack down on subversive elements and uses this as an excuse for a tighter control over us all.

What we could do about it…
A single movement across all racial and social economic divides to starve the controlling power out and then overthrow the predominant bureaucracy and then to cut all ties with world power brokers like the IMF, UN etc.

Only to be replaced by what we have now, but under a new name…

“Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss…”

Sounds like you should move to Fiji, I think you'd make friends with their leader pretty well...

[Pseudonym]

Sounds like you should move to Fiji, I think you'd make friends with their leader pretty well...

No, the laws involving moving large amounts of ordnance across international waters have been stepped up over the past few years.
Hardly enough profit in it to make it worthwhile anymore.

As a rule, I don’t make friends very well…
Something about me finding humour in others suffering.
I’m also an anti-social vicious cynic, and that won’t help ether…
Should have joined the IRD but I do have some self worth.

But the Fiji analogy is a good one, it proves that the only thing we lean from history is how to repeat it.

[huff3r]

No, the laws involving moving large amounts of ordnance across international waters have been stepped up over the past few years.
Hardly enough profit in it to make it worthwhile anymore.

As a rule, I don’t make friends very well…
Something about me finding humour in others suffering.
I’m also an anti-social vicious cynic, and that won’t help ether…
Should have joined the IRD but I do have some self worth.

But the Fiji analogy is a good one, it proves that the only thing we lean from history is how to repeat it.

Truth be told I wasn't trying to give ya advice, I was just trying to get rid of ya :bleh:

[swbarnett]

Well, in my experience worrying about all of this shit doesn't tend to change the outcome. Look at the yanks and the whole 'homeland security' law. In fact, a good example would be the child smacking law here. A non-binding referendum saw 70-odd % of people vote against it, but it didn't change shit. They'll pass whatever laws they want... and until riots and a significant social uprising actually happens, all talk about 'losing our rights' won't change a thing.
No, the talk and worry of a small miority won't change a thing. However, if enough people worry about it, just maybe it will reach critical mass and turn into a major political (or militant) force. We might even get back what we've lost if we're really lucky.

The trouble that we have in the western world is that we're too comfortable. We're all sitting around thinking "this isn't right" and then refuse to do anything about it because "I might lose my comfortable life". Our Governments understand this all too well and are smart about only whittling away at our freedom, never chopping off a big enough a chunk in one go to get people really angry. We all sit back and think "well that's not really that bad" but when we finally realist that we have absolutely no freedom left we'll recognise that a lot of "not so bad" changes soon add up.

[Pseudonym]

Truth be told I wasn't trying to give ya advice, I was just trying to get rid of ya :bleh:

To Fiji?
That’s just mean…

[BoristheBiter]

No, the talk and worry of a small miority won't change a thing. However, if enough people worry about it, just maybe it will reach critical mass and turn into a major political (or militant) force. We might even get back what we've lost if we're really lucky.

The trouble that we have in the western world is that we're too comfortable. We're all sitting around thinking "this isn't right" and then refuse to do anything about it because "I might lose my comfortable life". Our Governments understand this all too well and are smart about only whittling away at our freedom, never chopping off a big enough a chunk in one go to get people really angry. We all sit back and think "well that's not really that bad" but when we finally realist that we have absolutely no freedom left we'll recognise that a lot of "not so bad" changes soon add up.

So what freedom have you lost?

[huff3r]

So what freedom have you lost?

The freedom to be a paranoid psycho? Nope he's still doing that pretty well... :confused:

Perhaps hes angry cos he'd rather live in a totally lawless society where one can stab someone with no consequences? :no:

[Pseudonym]

So what freedom have you lost?

An interesting question…

With the intellectual property law now in effect your ISP can, and must, monitor what your activity is on the internet and if there is a suspected breach in the law send you a warning and then cut your service off if you persist.
So the government has insisted that a private company must watch you on the off chance that you may do something that would upset another private company.
We’re not talking about downloading “How to IED your local school” as that has no owner and therefore no one will be hurt.
But if you download a song, or even just watch a YouTube clip with an unlicensed music clip you can be warned.

Or where you after something bigger, as you don’t go on the internet and download anything?

How about how we can not defend ourselves from attack in our own homes?
Shouldn’t that be a right?
Or if we all sign a referendum or petition it gets ignored?
Don’t we have the right to be heard?

Sorry am I mixing rights with freedoms?
Silly me…

[bogan]

With the intellectual property law now in effect your ISP can, and must, monitor what your activity is on the internet and if there is a suspected breach in the law send you a warning and then cut your service off if you persist.

Not even close, the ISP is required to take an accusation issued by a private company (representing the rights holder) as the truth. I believe the company even pays the ISP. Nobody is required to monitor your activity on the internet, in fact I think that is still illegal. It's kind of like the difference between having each vehicle GPS tracked, and speed traps set up, easy to get away with if you know where the speed traps are :shifty:

[swbarnett]

So what freedom have you lost?
The freedom to do whatever I damn well please as long as it does not directly harm anyone else.

The freedom to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

The freedom to go about MY business without being constantly monitored.

Admittedly we still have it pretty good in NZ. It's more about a prediction of where this is headed. If we don't stop it soon it will be too late.

[Pseudonym]

Not even close, the ISP is required to take an accusation issued by a private company (representing the rights holder) as the truth. I believe the company even pays the ISP. Nobody is required to monitor your activity on the internet, in fact I think that is still illegal. It's kind of like the difference between having each vehicle GPS tracked, and speed traps set up, easy to get away with if you know where the speed traps are :shifty:

I have been misinformed…
That’s a relief, I thought a private company suddenly had the right to watch what you where doing just because…
Oh wait…

So it’s Okay for a “concerned party” to track your activity under suspicion that you may have infringed on one of their licences and then have your ISP mail you out a warning…
We must be being watched by someone or how will they know?
Or do they have a call home bug planted in all digital media?

[Zedder]

The freedom to do whatever I damn well please as long as it does not directly harm anyone else.

The freedom to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

The freedom to go about MY business without being constantly monitored.

Admittedly we still have it pretty good in NZ. It's more about a prediction of where this is headed. If we don't stop it soon it will be too late.

We're way behind some countries but my philosophy is: If you're doing nothing wrong then don't worry about being monitored.

[BoristheBiter]

An interesting question…

With the intellectual property law now in effect your ISP can, and must, monitor what your activity is on the internet and if there is a suspected breach in the law send you a warning and then cut your service off if you persist.
So the government has insisted that a private company must watch you on the off chance that you may do something that would upset another private company.
We’re not talking about downloading “How to IED your local school” as that has no owner and therefore no one will be hurt.
But if you download a song, or even just watch a YouTube clip with an unlicensed music clip you can be warned.

Or where you after something bigger, as you don’t go on the internet and download anything?

How about how we can not defend ourselves from attack in our own homes?
Shouldn’t that be a right?
Or if we all sign a referendum or petition it gets ignored?
Don’t we have the right to be heard?

Sorry am I mixing rights with freedoms?
Silly me…

Bogan has already answered your ISP debate so i won't repeat that.

All those others you still have the freedom (or right) to do and that has not changed so you have no argument there please try again.


The freedom to do whatever I damn well please as long as it does not directly harm anyone else.

You can

The freedom to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

You are

The freedom to go about MY business without being constantly monitored.

Then give up all access to the world as you are monitored in everything you do, even on this forum

Admittedly we still have it pretty good in NZ. It's more about a prediction of where this is headed. If we don't stop it soon it will be too late.

you both are still to prove we have lost any freedom.
I can still do the things i did back when i was growing up, in fact some people have more freedom today than they did back then.

[Scuba_Steve]

We're way behind some countries but my philosophy is: If you're doing nothing wrong then don't worry about being monitored.

Ignorance is bliss right???



All those others you still have the freedom (or right) to do and that has not changed so you have no argument there please try again.
you both are still to prove we have lost any freedom.
I can still do the things i did back when i was growing up, in fact some people have more freedom today than they did back then.

When you stop living in your head & join us in either New Zealand or Auckland you'll see he is right

[Zedder]

Ignorance is bliss right???



When you stop living in your head & join us in either New Zealand or Auckland you'll see he is right

It's not ignorance SS, it's just that I've got better things to do with my life than worrying too much about the fact that I'm being monitored. Having said that, I have the ability to monitor the people who do the monitoring as well, it's called voting. Get it? You're always a bit too negative, so lighten up and live a bit.

[BoristheBiter]

Ignorance is bliss right???



When you stop living in your head & join us in either New Zealand or Auckland you'll see he is right

Again i will ask you the same question, what freedom have you lost?
And i am not talking grades of tinfoil.

[Scuba_Steve]

It's not ignorance SS, it's just that I've got better things to do with my life than worrying too much about the fact that I'm being monitored. Having said that, I have the ability to monitor the people who do the monitoring as well, it's called voting. Get it? You're always a bit too negative, so lighten up and live a bit.

Problem with text, if you actually knew me you probably wouldn't use the word negative, but hey till they can convey emotion (for want of a better word) in text guess ya can't help it. kinda like radio & looks really they never look as hot as they sound on radio.


Again i will ask you the same question, what freedom have you lost?
And i am not talking grades of tinfoil.

Well going back to what swbarnett said

We cannot do what we like as long as it effect no-one else, obviously you have never tried it?
This new digital IP law has taken away the right to be presumed innocent.
Freedom of speech? yea as long as it complies to the restrictions
Freedom to enjoy what you want? well try getting
one of these books - Why He Was Born So Beautiful And Other Rugby Songs, The Kama Sutra Illustrated (1971), The Complete Marquis de Sade (1975), The Limerick Vols 1 and 2 (1977), The World’s Best Dirty Jokes (1979), The Joy of Gay Sex (1983), The Autobiography of a Flea (1987), The World of the American Pit Bull Terrier (1991), and A Guy With Tits (2001)).
or these games (remember piracy is illegal) - Manhunt, manhunt 2, postal 2, Reservoir Dogs

And heres another one for ya, I don't have the freedom to use my dirt bike on the road, which under NZ law is actually EVERYWHERE but for the purposes of this, including the beach.

[Hoon]

I'm all for it. If it means that stolen vehicles or false plates can be identified immediately before a crime can be commited then sorry but this far outweighs the cries of those paranoid delusers who are only concerned with their freedom to break the law should they one day choose to.

Like others have already mentioned, those of us that have nothing to fear see this as a good thing and a win win situation whereas those that have something to hide or are just plain paranoid won't.

If it were up to me I'd make it compulsory for all citizens to have surgically implanted GPS locators.

[Hoon]

Freedom to enjoy what you want? well try getting ......
We'll I'd like to buy an AK-47 and nuclear bomb but can't. So whats your point?

[BoristheBiter]

We cannot do what we like as long as it effect no-one else, obviously you have never tried it?
I don't get your point here.
This new digital IP law has taken away the right to be presumed innocent.
Bollocks it hasn't, only your preception of this law has.
Freedom of speech? yea as long as it complies to the restrictions
We still have freedom of speech, what restrictions do you mean?
Freedom to enjoy what you want? well try getting
one of these books - Why He Was Born So Beautiful And Other Rugby Songs, The Kama Sutra Illustrated (1971), The Complete Marquis de Sade (1975), The Limerick Vols 1 and 2 (1977), The World’s Best Dirty Jokes (1979), The Joy of Gay Sex (1983), The Autobiography of a Flea (1987), The World of the American Pit Bull Terrier (1991), and A Guy With Tits (2001)).
or these games (remember piracy is illegal) - Manhunt, manhunt 2, postal 2, Reservoir Dogs
So are you saying that pedeo should be legal to buy as well? Its called standards and good taste but from seeing what you want to read and what games you want to play i guess it's missed on you.

And heres another one for ya, I don't have the freedom to use my dirt bike on the road, which under NZ law is actually EVERYWHERE but for the purposes of this, including the beach.

You are not saying what freedoms have been taken away as you were never aloud to do this anyway.

[Zedder]

I'm all for it. If it means that stolen vehicles or false plates can be identified immediately before a crime can be commited then sorry but this far outweighs the cries of those paranoid delusers who are only concerned with their freedom to break the law should they one day choose to.

Like others have already mentioned, those of us that have nothing to fear see this as a good thing and a win win situation whereas those that have something to hide or are just plain paranoid won't.

If it were up to me I'd make it compulsory for all citizens to have surgically implanted GPS locators.

Maybe not GPS, but certain people displaying anti social behaviour could be fitted with electrodes which deliver high voltage via remote control.........

[gwigs]

If it were up to me I'd make it compulsory for all citizens to have surgically implanted GPS locators.[/QUOTE]

I,m glad it isnt up to you then,
so you,d like the government to keep tabs on you ?I,m fucked if I would like it.
Its all a bit too Orwellian.

[scumdog]

I can still do the things i did back when i was growing up, in fact some people have more freedom today than they did back then.

Yup, I can legally ride at faster speed than I could when I was 30 years old, I can stay at the pub longer than I could at 25 years of age, I can import car/bike stuff more easily...somebody will tell us more no doubt.<_<

[Scuba_Steve]

You are not saying what freedoms have been taken away as you were never aloud to do this anyway.

Im younger than alot but freedom to modify vehicles was taken away.
and the last one I mentioned was taken away in my time and probably had the biggest personal effect on me.
as for censor why should someone else decide what you can have? would you be ok if they decided Gixxers were banned because their awesomness might be offensive to some old person who has nothing better to do but complain?

[_Shrek_]

I'm all for it. If it means that stolen vehicles or false plates can be identified immediately before a crime can be commited then sorry but this far outweighs the cries of those paranoid delusers who are only concerned with their freedom to break the law should they one day choose to.

Like others have already mentioned, those of us that have nothing to fear see this as a good thing and a win win situation whereas those that have something to hide or are just plain paranoid won't.

while I don't totally disagree NZ is still heading to be a :Police: state with the way things are going


If it were up to me I'd make it compulsory for all citizens to have surgically implanted GPS locators.

but this comment is so close to home, I don't think you have any idea just how close this is to be coming a reality, as they want every one to be incerted with a chip for banking, (cashless society) location, hear every thing you say & the list goes on, so the freedoms you enjoy now will be a thing of the past

[FJRider]

Yup, I can legally ride at faster speed than I could when I was 30 years old, I can stay at the pub longer than I could at 25 years of age, I can import car/bike stuff more easily...somebody will tell us more no doubt.<_<

If I had a vehicle that could actually achieve the speed limit at the time ... would have been a bonus ... :wings:

[jazfender]

They'll pass whatever laws they want... and until riots and a significant social uprising actually happens, all talk about 'losing our rights' won't change a thing.

The revolution will not be televised.


I'm all for it. If it means that stolen vehicles or false plates can be identified immediately before a crime can be commited then sorry but this far outweighs the cries of those paranoid delusers who are only concerned with their freedom to break the law should they one day choose to.

Minority Report?



Like others have already mentioned, those of us that have nothing to fear see this as a good thing and a win win situation whereas those that have something to hide or are just plain paranoid won't.

Moral high ground or not, it's not as black and white as you're making out. If you think that a good person has to be flawless in their conduct, you're denying a large portion of the human condition, removing part of what it is to be human and basically applying a big fat band-aid to a broken bone. One of those ones that rips all your hairs out when you try to take it off.

Those with "nothing to fear" are operating on the presumption that because they are such good people, nobody could ever infringe on their liberties in a way that affects them.

Kind of like those that are such good drivers... they could never be in an accident.

[Zedder]

The revolution will not be televised.



Minority Report?



Moral high ground or not, it's not as black and white as you're making out. If you think that a good person has to be flawless in their conduct, you're denying a large portion of the human condition, removing part of what it is to be human and basically applying a big fat band-aid to a broken bone. One of those ones that rips all your hairs out when you try to take it off.

Those with "nothing to fear" are operating on the presumption that because they are such good people, nobody could ever infringe on their liberties in a way that affects them.

Kind of like those that are such good drivers... they could never be in an accident.

The "nothing to fear" concept isn't like an analogy of an accident. It is about not breaking the law while driving that is correct in this context.

[jazfender]

The "nothing to fear" concept isn't like an analogy of an accident. It is about not breaking the law while driving that is correct in this context.

You're right, I ran away a bit there.

What's most important is that people don't think they have "nothing to fear" just because they are acting within the law. It must also be clear that being a good/righteous/just person is different from acting within the law. They may overlap but they are different concepts.

[huff3r]

You're right, I ran away a bit there.

What's most important is that people don't think they have "nothing to fear" just because they are acting within the law. It must also be clear that being a good/righteous/just person is different from acting within the law. They may overlap but they are different concepts.

Correct, you can be an absolute asshole and still be acting totally legally. It generally doesnt work much the other way round. Much of what is good and righteous is and always will be legal, as it is the general basis for the law.

[Scuba_Steve]

Correct, you can be an absolute asshole and still be acting totally legally. It generally doesnt work much the other way round. Much of what is good and righteous is and always will be legal, as it is the general basis for the law.

:mellow: wow now there goes some heavily rose tinted glasses.

[jazfender]

Correct, you can be an absolute asshole and still be acting totally legally. It generally doesnt work much the other way round. Much of what is good and righteous is and always will be legal, as it is the general basis for the law.

I agree with your first sentence.

[Zedder]

:mellow: wow now there goes some heavily rose tinted glasses.

What took you so long SS?

[smoky]

Yes it was the new camera cars the N/S cops are testing. There read your number plate and instantly MR Plod knows your name, licence number,Rego and warrant. If any of them are illegal your sprung.BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE if Mr Plod types a few keys he can check unpaid fines,arrest warants and any thing on all data bases.Past criminal histroy by type (eg burgler sex offender) Also keep a record of all the cars that pass that way and the time they did it. When they are up and running they generate enough work for 2 bike cops and 4 cars. I believe there is a cop car with one on it's roof.
If you think about it - all that technology and being set up by cops? whats the chance it'll work for a whole shift, then there's the shit poor download speeds for info on our internet in NZ, well be a couple miles clear down the road by the time the page has loaded with our "instant" details, then all that information has to be read and understood by a donut distracted idoit in blue! We'll be at lest 10 miles down the road by the time they've got their thick heads around it.
Bring it on twats

[Scuba_Steve]

What took you so long SS?

:scratch: ...yea I'm lost

[BoristheBiter]

Im younger than alot but freedom to modify vehicles was taken away.
and the last one I mentioned was taken away in my time and probably had the biggest personal effect on me.
as for censor why should someone else decide what you can have? would you be ok if they decided Gixxers were banned because their awesomness might be offensive to some old person who has nothing better to do but complain?

I'm sorry but that would have to be one of the worst answers i have seen you post.
You are still allowed to modify your vehicle.
You have never been allowed to ride your dirt bike on public roads.

So you are saying that it is alright for some pedophile to do what they do because it is his freedom to do so?
So you want a place where everyone can just do as they please?
What sort of place do you think it would be?
All this is crap about our freedom being taken away is just paranoia bullshit.
And as for being tracked by our number plate, what do you think happens every time you use your phone, every time you use the internet, every time you use a bankcard.
Every month i get a printout sent from my web hosting company telling me who has been looking at my website. You should see the information that can be gathered just by that alone.

[scumdog]

All this is crap about our freedom being taken away is just paranoia bullshit.

Which is warmly embraced and perpetuated the *T.F.H.W. of KB.





*tin-foil hat wearers-

[_Shrek_]

And as for being tracked by our number plate, what do you think happens every time you use your phone, every time you use the internet, every time you use a bankcard.
Every month i get a printout sent from my web hosting company telling me who has been looking at my website. You should see the information that can be gathered just by that alone.

:scratch: just paranoia bullshit? & this happens every day!!! :confused:

[jazfender]

So you are saying that it is alright for some pedophile to do what they do because it is his freedom to do so?
So you want a place where everyone can just do as they please?
What sort of place do you think it would be?
All this is crap about our freedom being taken away is just paranoia bullshit.
And as for being tracked by our number plate, what do you think happens every time you use your phone, every time you use the internet, every time you use a bankcard.
Every month i get a printout sent from my web hosting company telling me who has been looking at my website. You should see the information that can be gathered just by that alone.

1. Explaining that an advance in monitoring or liberty restriction is justified by basing it on the status quo is fucked up. That's the shit that gets dictators elected.

2. You're the only one talking about paedophiles.

[Zamiam]

Its the head in the sand approach of the majority that leads to all kinds of loss of civil liberties which often leads to attrocities

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Those that we allow to "rule" are very good at chipping away at our rights/freedoms all in the name of progress. Those with the master plan must laugh themselves silly with the "you only have something to fear if you have done something wrong" brigade.

Where can I buy a good quality tinfoil hat?

[scumdog]

Those with the master plan must laugh themselves silly with the "you only have something to fear if you have done something wrong" brigade.

:laugh::killingme:lol: ...he said 'master plan'....

[BoristheBiter]

1. Explaining that an advance in monitoring or liberty restriction is justified by basing it on the status quo is fucked up. That's the shit that gets dictators elected.

2. You're the only one talking about paedophiles.

What liberty restriction? There is now a way of instantaneously checking a number plate and because of that hand out a ticket for it. Nothing has changed you just are more likely to get a ticket quicker if you drive without a wof or reg or be stopped if you are driving a stolen car.

If you can't figure out what i was meaning in a reply to SS then i won't bother trying to explain as it evidently went over your head.


Its the head in the sand approach of the majority that leads to all kinds of loss of civil liberties which often leads to attrocities

"First they came…" is a famous statement attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. The text of the quotation is usually presented roughly as follows:

Those that we allow to "rule" are very good at chipping away at our rights/freedoms all in the name of progress. Those with the master plan must laugh themselves silly with the "you only have something to fear if you have done something wrong" brigade.

Where can I buy a good quality tinfoil hat?

:wings::wings:Post 120 and goodwins law is alive and well:wings::wings:

And still no one can tell me what freedom they have lost.

[swbarnett]

We're way behind some countries but my philosophy is: If you're doing nothing wrong then don't worry about being monitored.
Define "doing nothing wrong". This is a very individual definition. What you consider OK may not agree with what I do, or indeed the law. Do you want cameras in your bedroom to make sure that your sexual practices are legal?

Just because you feel you're doing nothing wrong doesn't mean a future (or curent) government will agree.

[avgas]

Where can I buy a good quality tinfoil hat?
You can't anymore. Its all Alu foil now.
Conspiracy?

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm sorry but that would have to be one of the worst answers i have seen you post.
You are still allowed to modify your vehicle.
You have never been allowed to ride your dirt bike on public roads.

So you are saying that it is alright for some pedophile to do what they do because it is his freedom to do so?
So you want a place where everyone can just do as they please?
What sort of place do you think it would be?
All this is crap about our freedom being taken away is just paranoia bullshit.
And as for being tracked by our number plate, what do you think happens every time you use your phone, every time you use the internet, every time you use a bankcard.
Every month i get a printout sent from my web hosting company telling me who has been looking at my website. You should see the information that can be gathered just by that alone.

:facepalm: Are you really this stupid or just trollin???

I have lost the ability to ride my dirt bike on public roads, we always used to ride along the beach all the time on sunny days you'd see people everywhere on dirt bikes riding the beach (always away from the public) and this was on a cop patrolled beach everyone was happy. This has been taken away!!!
You cannot modify your vehicles with the freedom of before all the older guys round that enjoy modifying will tell you this.

As for pedophile what is your obsession?, are you upset and think that because your interest has been banned (for good reason) no-one else should be allowed freedoms either? Your interest DOES affect other people directly, the freedoms we want DO NOT affect other people.

[Zamiam]

You can't anymore. Its all Alu foil now.
Conspiracy?

Theirs one freedom that we've lost right there. How dare they make us wear aluminum. It's known to increase the likelihood of Alzheimer's - maybe that's the plan - it we can't remember we don't know what we've lost.

[Zedder]

Define "doing nothing wrong". This is a very individual definition. What you consider OK may not agree with what I do, or indeed the law. Do you want cameras in your bedroom to make sure that your sexual practices are legal?

Just because you feel you're doing nothing wrong doesn't mean a future (or curent) government will agree.

Doing nothing wrong to me means from a legal stand point. IE: Not breaking the law. If I'm not robbing, attacking, destroying property, raping etc etc. Ipso facto, I am being a law abiding citizen and not in fear of being arrrested.

[BoristheBiter]

:facepalm: Are you really this stupid or just trollin???

I have lost the ability to ride my dirt bike on public roads, we always used to ride along the beach all the time on sunny days you'd see people everywhere on dirt bikes riding the beach (always away from the public) and this was on a cop patrolled beach everyone was happy. This has been taken away!!!
You cannot modify your vehicles with the freedom of before all the older guys round that enjoy modifying will tell you this.

As for pedophile what is your obsession?, are you upset and think that because your interest has been banned (for good reason) no-one else should be allowed freedoms either? Your interest DOES affect other people directly, the freedoms we want DO NOT affect other people.



1) legally you have never been allowed to ride your dirt bike on a public road or a beach. It was not policed as heavily as it is now because as you said you always would be "away from the public" but you look at the beaches now fuckwits everywhere (not just on bikes) flying up and down the beach with no regard for other people. And you can still ride your dirt bike on a public road or beach if it is a rego or wof.
2) you can still modify your vehicle to what every you want you just have to get the right permits for it.

As for the pedo bit you were saying that you can't get some items that have been banned in NZ because you don't think they are objectionable. I guess taking from your reply you object to this sort of thing but then I guess to others they might say their freedom has been taken away.

But you knew this already and were just trolling, or you are not as clever as i gave you credit for.

[Scuba_Steve]

Doing nothing wrong to me means from a legal stand point. IE: Not breaking the law. If I'm not robbing, attacking, destroying property, raping etc etc. Ipso facto, I am being a law abiding citizen and not in fear of being arrrested.

I could almost guarantee if I was a PIG & followed you round for a day I could quite easily give you at-least 5 fines for breaking the law. This is almost true for every NZer


1) legally you have never been allowed to ride your dirt bike on a public road or a beach. It was not policed as heavily as it is now because as you said you always would be "away from the public" but you look at the beaches now fuckwits everywhere (not just on bikes) flying up and down the beach with no regard for other people. And you can still ride your dirt bike on a public road or beach if it is a rego or wof.

So my freedom to use my bike HAS been taken away (I never said it was legal just my freedom to do so has been taken). And try getting a CR250 road legal with no degrading of it's dirt capabilities.



2) you can still modify your vehicle to what every you want you just have to get the right permits for it.

So right here the freedom HAS been taken away not all of it but it has still been taken



As for the pedo bit you were saying that you can't get some items that have been banned in NZ because you don't think they are objectionable. I guess taking from your reply you object to this sort of thing but then I guess to others they might say their freedom has been taken away.

But you knew this already and were just trolling, or you are not as clever as i gave you credit for.

I want freedom where it affects no-one else. A book like Karma sutra, or game like manhunt affects no-one else, pedo material affects the kids in it. It's not about if people find it objectionable, it's if it directly affects others.

Alot of Christians find evolution objectionable & evolutionist find church objectionable should we ban these???

[BoristheBiter]

So my freedom to use my bike HAS been taken away (I never said it was legal just my freedom to do so has been taken). And try getting a CR250 road legal with no degrading of it's dirt capabilities.

So right here the freedom HAS been taken away not all of it but it has still been taken

I want freedom where it affects no-one else. A book like Karma sutra, or game like manhunt affects no-one else, pedo material affects the kids in it. It's not about if people find it objectionable, it's if it directly affects others.

Alot of Christians find evolution objectionable & evolutionist find church objectionable should we ban these???

WTF?
So who has taken your freedom to ride on a beach? No one as it has never been there in the first place, you said so yourself "I never said it was legal just my freedom to do so has been taken".
Nothing has changed other than it now affects others and they complain about so you get told to fuck off.
So by your own words it now affects others so you should stop.

If you take the legal side out of it you are free to do what ever you want.

[Zedder]

I could almost guarantee if I was a PIG & followed you round for a day I could quite easily give you at-least 5 fines for breaking the law. This is almost true for every NZer


So my freedom to use my bike HAS been taken away (I never said it was legal just my freedom to do so has been taken). And try getting a CR250 road legal with no degrading of it's dirt capabilities.


So right here the freedom HAS been taken away not all of it but it has still been taken



I want freedom where it affects no-one else. A book like Karma sutra, or game like manhunt affects no-one else, pedo material affects the kids in it. It's not about if people find it objectionable, it's if it directly affects others.

Alot of Christians find evolution objectionable & evolutionist find church objectionable should we ban these???

Scube

No laws/controls can take in all facets of individual behaviour. They are there to provide a general basis to allow people to go about their daily lives with a feeling of safety.

Complete freedom isn't available in society because there's too many people who would take their interpretation of freedom/rights to the extreme.

Religion is a belief system only and not usually actionable, unless one is an extremeist Muslim.

[Scuba_Steve]

WTF?
So who has taken your freedom to ride on a beach? No one as it has never been there in the first place, you said so yourself "I never said it was legal just my freedom to do so has been taken".
Nothing has changed other than it now affects others and they complain about so you get told to fuck off.
So by your own words it now affects others so you should stop.

If you take the legal side out of it you are free to do what ever you want.

The freedom to do it WAS there, you seem to be confusing legality with freedom, it may not have been legal but the freedom to do it was there, the police would NOT challenge you unless you were a moron. We were free to use our bikes on the beach.
You are free to cross the road how you like, there is strict rules on how to cross the road, they are not inforced so for now you have the freedom to cross as you see fit.
I still have the freedom to ride my bike on certain dirt tracks, this IS illegal but for now I have the freedom to do it because it is as yet not inforced.

You asked for freedoms taken I have given them. You don't like it, that's your problem. They still remain freedoms that have been taken.
Your not gonna realise what you've lost till its all gone by the sounds of it.

[BoristheBiter]

The freedom to do it WAS there, you seem to be confusing legality with freedom, it may not have been legal but the freedom to do it was there, the police would NOT challenge you unless you were a moron. We were free to use our bikes on the beach.
You are free to cross the road how you like, there is strict rules on how to cross the road, they are not inforced so for now you have the freedom to cross as you see fit.
I still have the freedom to ride my bike on certain dirt tracks, this IS illegal but for now I have the freedom to do it because it is as yet not inforced.

You asked for freedoms taken I have given them. You don't like it, that's your problem. They still remain freedoms that have been taken.
Your not gonna realise what you've lost till its all gone by the sounds of it.


I think there is a major difference in our definitions of the word freedom.

[Hoon]

I think you are confusing freedom with 'ability to break the law without being caught'. The law is the law and just because someone decides not to enforce the law does not equate to mean it's now legal.


I could almost guarantee if I was a PIG & followed you round for a day I could quite easily give you at-least 5 fines for breaking the law. This is almost true for every NZer

Yes I agree. If the rewards outweigh the risk of being caught and resulting punishment then people will choose to break the law. However once you increase the risk of being caught to an almost certainty you will find that many will no longer choose to break the law in these situations (i.e. if I knew the cop was following me, he'd get nothing). Those that still do will learn the hard/expensive way.

So this is why I'm all for it. Not only will it catch bad guys but as an added bonus it will discourage others from breaking the law. If you are upset that you have lost your freedom to break the law should you choose too then sorry I have no sympathy for your plight and look forward to these 'freedoms' being removed.

[swbarnett]

So you are saying that it is alright for some pedophile to do what they do because it is his freedom to do so?
You've missed the point - As long as it does not directly hurt anyone else.

[swbarnett]

Doing nothing wrong to me means from a legal stand point. IE: Not breaking the law. If I'm not robbing, attacking, destroying property, raping etc etc. Ipso facto, I am being a law abiding citizen and not in fear of being arrrested.
Only until something you like doing gets made illegal.

[swbarnett]

(i.e. if I knew the cop was following me, he'd get nothing).
For short periods maybe. What if he followed you 7x24 for the rest of your life? You're bound to slip in to old habits eventually.

[BoristheBiter]

You've missed the point - As long as it does not directly hurt anyone else.

Have already been through this.

Since when does that have anything to do with freedom?

[scumdog]

You've missed the point - As long as it does not directly hurt anyone else.

So you're saying it's OK to do as you want - UP to the point of hurting somebody.

So a drink-driver should be allowed to drink and drive as long as they aren't actually huring soembody??:confused:

[scumdog]

Complete freedom isn't available in society because there's too many people who would take their interpretation of freedom/rights to the extreme.



So extreme complete freedom would be a kind of anarchy eh?

[scumdog]

Just because you feel you're doing nothing wrong doesn't mean a future (or curent) government will agree.

Suck it up baby - that's the way it has been for yonks and will continue to be for yonks.

Man I'm so pissed they shut down those opium dens...

[Zedder]

Only until something you like doing gets made illegal.

I don't think there's much chance of the things I like doing becoming illegal.

[Zedder]

So extreme complete freedom would be a kind of anarchy eh?

Extremely completely freedomly correct.

[avgas]

Theirs one freedom that we've lost right there. How dare they make us wear aluminum. It's known to increase the likelihood of Alzheimer's - maybe that's the plan - it we can't remember we don't know what we've lost.
Apparently when I was younger I was adamant I wasn't to wear pants.
I wish I had that freedom back.

[BoristheBiter]

Apparently when I was younger I was adamant I wasn't to wear pants.
I wish I had that freedom back.

I'm glad you don't.

[swbarnett]

Have already been through this.

Since when does that have anything to do with freedom?
It has everything to do with legal freedom. If I do 150kph on a wide road under perfect weather with no side streets or driveways I'm not hurting anybody but under current law I don't have this freedom. Otherwise known as a victimless crime.

[swbarnett]

So you're saying it's OK to do as you want - UP to the point of hurting somebody.

So a drink-driver should be allowed to drink and drive as long as they aren't actually huring soembody??:confused:
Yes and no. If they don't actually hit anybody it could be argued "where's the harm?". On the flip side the risk is much greater. The problem is who you trust to assess the increased risk.

[Zedder]

It has everything to do with legal freedom. If I do 150kph on a wide road under perfect weather with no side streets or driveways I'm not hurting anybody but under current law I don't have this freedom. Otherwise known as a victimless crime.

What it is also known as is potential for a crash due to a number of factors you haven't mentioned and resulting in death or injury with all the downstream costs associated with it.

[BoristheBiter]

It has everything to do with legal freedom. If I do 150kph on a wide road under perfect weather with no side streets or driveways I'm not hurting anybody but under current law I don't have this freedom. Otherwise known as a victimless crime.

I bet that cop thought that when he did a u-turn.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes and no. If they don't actually hit anybody it could be argued "where's the harm?". On the flip side the risk is much greater. The problem is who you trust to assess the increased risk.

Well defiantly not the drunk driver.

[Scuba_Steve]

I don't think there's much chance of the things I like doing becoming illegal.

obviously not a fagger, their working on making that illegal. Can't be into dirt biking that's already illegal. Hope you don't like racist jokes, they want to make that illegal. Guns, those laws are only ever going to get tighter.

[swbarnett]

Man I'm so pissed they shut down those opium dens...
You make a good point. Who was being hurt by the private use of opium?

[swbarnett]

I don't think there's much chance of the things I like doing becoming illegal.
To take it to the extreme - do you like riding your bike? There are people that would make this illegal if we let them.

[Zedder]

To take it to the extreme - do you like riding your bike? There are people that would make this illegal if we let them.

Yes, you are taking it to the extreme.

[swbarnett]

I bet that cop thought that when he did a u-turn.
So, was it the cop doing a U-turn 120m from the brow of a hill or the bike coming over said hill at 150kph that actually cost the rider their life? Either way the responsibility for one's own safety lies with onself alone.

[Zedder]

So, was it the cop doing a U-turn 120m from the brow of a hill or the bike coming over said hill at 150kph that actually cost the rider their life? Either way the responsibility for one's own safety lies with onself alone.

Don't you think it was a combination of things?

Sure, responsibility (a very important word that responsibility) does lie with oneself and because I don't want to die or be maimed and occupy emergencies services unnessessaryily due to my lack of foresight, factoring of possible things that can go wrong and excessive speed, I am lawful and careful.

[Zedder]

obviously not a fagger, their working on making that illegal. Can't be into dirt biking that's already illegal. Hope you don't like racist jokes, they want to make that illegal. Guns, those laws are only ever going to get tighter.

Ain't no white fellas gonna take my guns away from me!!

[swbarnett]

Yes, you are taking it to the extreme.
Not as extreme as you might think. It has been freely admitted that there is no place for motorcycles in Sweden's "Vision Zero" policy of no fatalities or serious injuries in road traffic by 2020.

[Scuba_Steve]

Not as extreme as you might think. It has been freely admitted that there is no place for motorcycles in Sweden's "Vision Zero" policy of no fatalities or serious injuries in road traffic by 2020.

True that, importing of the better looking "dangerous" vans is already illegal, so I'm left scrounging round what's already in NZ when getting a new one. I wouldn't put it past them to one-day ban bikes for being too "dangerous" too, under their futile pursuit of zero road fatalities. After all it is only the "safe" cages that are bringing our road toll down.

Oh and look another freedom gone, The Govt has "censored" my choice in vehicles.

[Zedder]

Not as extreme as you might think. It has been freely admitted that there is no place for motorcycles in Sweden's "Vision Zero" policy of no fatalities or serious injuries in road traffic by 2020.

But we are talking about New Zealand.

There's a fair way to go before all the other death/injury causing activities are sorted out before motorbikes get targetted.

[Dadpole]

But we are talking about New Zealand.

There's a fair way to go before all the other death/injury causing activities are sorted out before motorbikes get targetted.

Fark off. They go after the easily identifiable targets first. Most people don't give a damn about bikes and are easily convinced we are dangerous. Recall all the "Hit them with higher costs" attitude fron Joe Public at the time of the levy increase.

A few targeted releases of 'statistics' had people convinced we were dying in thousands - at their expense.

[Zedder]

Fark off. They go after the easily identifiable targets first. Most people don't give a damn about bikes and are easily convinced we are dangerous. Recall all the "Hit them with higher costs" attitude fron Joe Public at the time of the levy increase.

A few targeted releases of 'statistics' had people convinced we were dying in thousands - at their expense.

Fark off yourself, you obviously haven't read that the home is the most dangerous place statistically.

[Mrs Shrek]

Doing nothing wrong to me means from a legal stand point. IE: Not breaking the law. If I'm not robbing, attacking, destroying property, raping etc etc. Ipso facto, I am being a law abiding citizen and not in fear of being arrrested.

Think back a "few" years to Russia before communism, freedom of religion was legal,when communism came into being it was suddenly illegal for people to read or possess bibles. Overnight "law abiding citizens" suddenly became criminals and feared for their lives. I am not paranoid but i see little by little our lives are being monitored "for our own good" as we sit back and allow it. A bit like cooking a frog, throw it into boiling water and it will jump out but slowly bring it to the boil and it will bask in the water until its too late. :yes: :done:

[Gearup]

Think back a "few" years to Russia before communism, freedom of religion was legal,when communism came into being it was suddenly illegal for people to read or possess bibles. Overnight "law abiding citizens" suddenly became criminals and feared for their lives. I am not paranoid but i see little by little our lives are being monitored "for our own good" as we sit back and allow it. A bit like cooking a frog, throw it into boiling water and it will jump out but slowly bring it to the boil and it will bask in the water until its too late. :yes: :done:

Yes, but Russia was in an absolute crap state and the Czar was needing to be got rid of in a big way.

I don't think you can compare Russia back then with NZ now.

Have you sat back and allowed things to happen?

[swbarnett]

What it is also known as is potential for a crash due to a number of factors you haven't mentioned and resulting in death or injury with all the downstream costs associated with it.
The important word being "potential". No government can assess the potential for an individual to crash in a given circumstance ahead of time. Seen Minority Report?

[swbarnett]

But we are talking about New Zealand.

There's a fair way to go before all the other death/injury causing activities are sorted out before motorbikes get targetted.
Yes, but it's when things are relatively good that the "Eternal Vigilance" that Thomas Jefferson mentioned is most important. This is when we have the potential to stop the downward slide.

[Zedder]

Yes, but it's when things are relatively good that the "Eternal Vigilance" that Thomas Jefferson mentioned is most important. This is when we have the potential to stop the downward slide.

I'll reply to the potential post first.

By heeding the potential that things can go wrong and doing something to reduce that (less speed, good lookout etc) you have a better chance of staying able to ride your motorbike and not be dead or in a hospital.

Also, don't think that by me being lawful that I'm not being eternally vigilant to the stunts of the powers that be, it's simply not inviting trouble, fines, death, injury or the like the works for me.

[Zedder]

Yes, but it's when things are relatively good that the "Eternal Vigilance" that Thomas Jefferson mentioned is most important. This is when we have the potential to stop the downward slide.

I'll reply to the potential post first.

By heeding the potential that things can go wrong and doing something to reduce that (less speed, good lookout etc) you have a better chance of staying able to ride your motorbike and not be dead or in a hospital.

Also, don't think that by me being lawful that I'm not being eternally vigilant to the stunts of the powers that be, it's simply not inviting trouble, fines, death, injury or the like that works for me.

[_Shrek_]

WTF?
So who has taken your freedom to ride on a beach? No one as it has never been there in the first place,

actually BB :bs: in the 70's & 80's we use to ride our bikes on the beachs on both Islands, even when there were people about (young & old) & thats some thing that has gone by the way side & it wasn't illegal, (normal road rules applyed) but the pc brigade & soft cocks that we have in power now just keep tightening the rope on us a little bit more each year

[_Shrek_]

I don't think you can compare Russia back then with NZ now.

:hitcher: what about turning normal parents in to criminals who smack their kids, or your wife/husband has guns & don't like it, (they take them away)

no mate same shit, just a different time & bucket

[Gearup]

:hitcher: what about turning normal parents in to criminals who smack their kids, or your wife/husband has guns & don't like it, (they take them away)

no mate same shit, just a different time & bucket

Attack of the Shreks!!!

The anti-smacking law has a large discretionary aspect to it. The guns with the wives/husbands scenario is an added threat that would be a worry to all concerned and I'd say the cops are erring on the side of caution quite a bit.

Pass the Vodka comrade.

[_Shrek_]

but freedoms that are gone all the same, troll troll troll ya boat :msn-wink:


Pass the Vodka comrade.

:drinknsin :drinkup:

[Kickaha]

Can't be into dirt biking that's already illegal.

Really? must be a whole set of different laws up your way because I've got plenty of places I can do some dirt biking quite legally


actually BB :bs: in the 70's & 80's we use to ride our bikes on the beachs on both Islands, even when there were people about (young & old) & thats some thing that has gone by the way side & it wasn't illegal, (normal road rules applyed) but the pc brigade & soft cocks that we have in power now just keep tightening the rope on us a little bit more each year

Most likely that is due to ever increasing numbers of people riding them like fuckwits

[Gearup]

but freedoms that are gone all the same, troll troll troll ya boat :msn-wink:

:drinknsin :drinkup:

I know, I like a good smack-the-kids-shoot-the-wife session as much as the next guy.

[BoristheBiter]

actually BB :bs: in the 70's & 80's we use to ride our bikes on the beachs on both Islands, even when there were people about (young & old) & thats some thing that has gone by the way side & it wasn't illegal, (normal road rules applyed) but the pc brigade & soft cocks that we have in power now just keep tightening the rope on us a little bit more each year

Yep and you still can now and road rules still apply, so does courtesy, good manners and respect for others. Now those are some things that we have lost.

I totally agree we have had too long with the pc nanny state bullshit but that was what you get from 9 years of Helen.

[Scuba_Steve]

Really? must be a whole set of different laws up your way because I've got plenty of places I can do some dirt biking quite legally


:scratch:You can???
Road - Any land the public can access whether of right or not
Land - the earth, everything above, everything below
Motor-vehicles on road - must be registered & WOF'd and of roadworthy standard

So a dirt-bike is a motor-vehicle is it not??? A dedicated dirt bike cannot be reg/WOF'd & of "roadworthy" standard, under NZ's lose law everything is a road.

So how is it you can find places to legally ride your bike??? do you just leave the country every-time you want to ride???

[Kickaha]

:scratch:You can???
Road - Any land the public can access whether of right or not
Land - the earth, everything above, everything below
Motor-vehicles on road - must be registered & WOF'd and of roadworthy standard

You didn't mention that in the post I quoted, you just said dirtbiking is illegal when quite clearly it isn't

It is illegal in certain areas might have been accurate




So how is it you can find places to legally ride your bike??? do you just leave the country every-time you want to ride???

Organised trail rides and public recreation areas seem to work fairly well down here as far as I know they're quite legal

[Scuba_Steve]

You didn't mention that in the post I quoted, you just said dirtbiking is illegal when quite clearly it isn't

It is illegal in certain areas might have been accurate

Organised trail rides and public recreation areas seem to work fairly well down here as far as I know they're quite legal

Not under NZ's lose law, it's just being ignored for now like the beach was for so many years. Anytime they want to enforce it...

[jazfender]

What liberty restriction? There is now a way of instantaneously checking a number plate and because of that hand out a ticket for it. Nothing has changed you just are more likely to get a ticket quicker if you drive without a wof or reg or be stopped if you are driving a stolen car.

You seriously can't see past the end of today, can you?

Today monitoring, tomorrow liberty restriction. I don't know enough about these fucking vans to tell whether they're good or bad yet and I suspect neither do you. That in itself is enough to prompt some serious questions as they're out on the road already and I don't remember any public consultation or discussion about them.



If you can't figure out what i was meaning in a reply to SS then i won't bother trying to explain as it evidently went over your head.

I did figure it out which is why I called you on it. It's a strawman fallacy, misrepresenting the argument and you fucking know it.

Nobody is saying that they want paedophiles to be able to go and fuck little kids and you are trying to use that to paint SS in a negative light - not only does that signal you're all shit, but it also suggests you are missing the point of liberty.



Complete freedom isn't available in society because there's too many people who would take their interpretation of freedom/rights to the extreme.

I accept that absolute freedom isn't available at this point but the current trend is tipping the balance towards safety over freedom.

Do these vans increase safety? Are regos are safety thing?

[scumdog]

So how is it you can find places to legally ride your bike??? do you just leave the country every-time you want to ride???

Wow, the Lake to Coast organisers are gonna shit themselves when they find they've organised that ride for dirt bikes to ride on a ROAD!:shit:

[BoristheBiter]

You seriously can't see past the end of today, can you?

Today monitoring, tomorrow liberty restriction. I don't know enough about these fucking vans to tell whether they're good or bad yet and I suspect neither do you. That in itself is enough to prompt some serious questions as they're out on the road already and I don't remember any public consultation or discussion about them


I did figure it out which is why I called you on it. It's a strawman fallacy, misrepresenting the argument and you fucking know it.

Nobody is saying that they want paedophiles to be able to go and fuck little kids and you are trying to use that to paint SS in a negative light - not only does that signal you're all shit, but it also suggests you are missing the point of liberty.



I accept that absolute freedom isn't available at this point but the current trend is tipping the balance towards safety over freedom.

Do these vans increase safety? Are regos are safety thing?

Wow bad day?
Do you use a bank card, whether that be credit or debit?

And try to keep the childish name calling to a minium.

[skinman]

A condition of living in a society (any society) is the sacrifice of some personal freedoms for the greater good. Unfortunately the basic condition, which is to respect other members of your society, is being lost and replaced with rules about everything. There is too great a percentage of people who seem to believe that they dont have to contribute anything and that they are somehow owed a living. In fact an increasingly large portion go even further and actively prey on & deceive the society in which they live.
This problem is not confined to NZ but seems to infect most western societies.
Common sense is the cure but how to get the masses to apply it?
The loss of driving freedoms is a side effect of the reliance on legislation to fix an attitude problem.
On the new camera thing I have to say I am on the cops side, and no, I am no angel on the road either, but I do always make sure my vehicle is legal.
big spiel over

[huff3r]

Apparently they are busy building the deathstar too, so if you protest for freedom they will just blow up your entire planet! :confused::laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Apparently they are busy building the deathstar too, so if you protest for freedom they will just blow up your entire planet! :confused::laugh:

ahh, I hear a well placed shot down the exhaust vent takes care of them:lol:.

[Zamiam]

Attack of the Shreks!!!

The anti-smacking law has a large discretionary aspect to it. The guns with the wives/husbands scenario is an added threat that would be a worry to all concerned and I'd say the cops are erring on the side of caution quite a bit.

Pass the Vodka comrade.

FFS - the only thing worse than them taking away our freedoms (and it wasn't illegal to ride a bike on the beach until the powers that be deemed a beach is a public road) is to allow them discretion. It is either illegal or it's not.

[jazfender]

Wow bad day?
Do you use a bank card, whether that be credit or debit?


Terrible day.

Yeah, I use credit and debit - so what?

[scumdog]

Yeah, I use credit and debit - so what?

You're kidding, right?

[jazfender]

You're kidding, right?

Well I already know what he's going to say, I just want him to say it.

[Gearup]

FFS - the only thing worse than them taking away our freedoms (and it wasn't illegal to ride a bike on the beach until the powers that be deemed a beach is a public road) is to allow them discretion. It is either illegal or it's not.

So you'd rather it was an illegal act be it a token smack or good wallop?

Yep, that's really sensible and fair. Everyone, whatever the mitigating circumstances, is a criminal in your books then.

[Zedder]

You seriously can't see past the end of today, can you?

Today monitoring, tomorrow liberty restriction. I don't know enough about these fucking vans to tell whether they're good or bad yet and I suspect neither do you. That in itself is enough to prompt some serious questions as they're out on the road already and I don't remember any public consultation or discussion about them.



I did figure it out which is why I called you on it. It's a strawman fallacy, misrepresenting the argument and you fucking know it.

Nobody is saying that they want paedophiles to be able to go and fuck little kids and you are trying to use that to paint SS in a negative light - not only does that signal you're all shit, but it also suggests you are missing the point of liberty.



I accept that absolute freedom isn't available at this point but the current trend is tipping the balance towards safety over freedom.

Do these vans increase safety? Are regos are safety thing?

From what I can make out the vans are for catching illegal drivers etc (why should others pay and not them) and as for the regos, well it's a bloody con but apparently Bronz and the like are working on it.

[_Shrek_]

apparently Bronz and the like are working on it.

:facepalm: i'm sure they are <_<

[pete376403]

Do these vans increase safety? Are regos are safety thing?

Rego is a tax, and there's nothing a Government will not do to protect its tax take.

[Berries]

ahh, I hear a well placed shot down the exhaust vent takes care of them:lol:.
You smooth talking bastard.

:love:

[BoristheBiter]

Terrible day.

Yeah, I use credit and debit - so what?


Well I already know what he's going to say, I just want him to say it.

So what else is there to say if you all ready know your argument in lose of freedom because of a camera van is flawed?

I see where you, SS and SWB are coming from but i just don't see this whole thing as a conspiracy.
Maybe you guys are right and the rest of us are frogs in a slowly heated pot of water i hope not.

Hope you have a better day today.

[Scuba_Steve]

From what I can make out the vans are for catching illegal drivers etc (why should others pay and not them) and as for the regos, well it's a bloody con but apparently Bronz and the like are working on it.

The vans will be brought in under "we can catch stolen cars" but after a couple years they will be used almost exclusively to find un-reg, reg on hold & non WOF's.
However they probably will catch a couple of stolen cars a year which they will then use to say "look it works" despite the 19000 stolen cars they didn't catch & had no real intention of catching.
It's all about the $$$ just like the speed scam.

[Gearup]

The vans will be brought in under "we can catch stolen cars" but after a couple years they will be used almost exclusively to find un-reg, reg on hold & non WOF's.
However they probably will catch a couple of stolen cars a year which they will then use to say "look it works" despite the 19000 stolen cars they didn't catch & had no real intention of catching.
It's all about the $$$ just like the speed scam.

Zey have zer gut plan ja?

[Gearup]

:facepalm: i'm sure they are <_<

Reckon.......

[Zedder]

Reckon.......

But it's true I tell ya! I heard it from a guy who heard it from another guy.

[_Shrek_]

But it's true I tell ya! I heard it from a guy who heard it from another guy.

:grouphug:

[Hoon]

The vans will be brought in under "we can catch stolen cars" but after a couple years they will be used almost exclusively to find un-reg, reg on hold & non WOF's.
However they probably will catch a couple of stolen cars a year which they will then use to say "look it works" despite the 19000 stolen cars they didn't catch & had no real intention of catching.
It's all about the $$$ just like the speed scam.

I have no problem with stupid people and those that take the gamble funding the government instead of me. Bring it on I say.

[jazfender]

So what else is there to say if you all ready know your argument in lose of freedom because of a camera van is flawed?

Wrong. I already know what your interpretation of my argument is because you set it up with that question.



I see where you, SS and SWB are coming from...

If you think the introduction of further monitoring services that are not put before the public are a good idea, then you have no idea where I am coming from.

[Hinny]

jazfender, Scuba_Steve,swbarnett - I like your style.

[newhere]

Yes it was the new camera cars the N/S cops are testing. There read your number plate and instantly MR Plod knows your name, licence number,Rego and warrant. If any of them are illegal your sprung.BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE if Mr Plod types a few keys he can check unpaid fines,arrest warants and any thing on all data bases.Past criminal histroy by type (eg burgler sex offender) Also keep a record of all the cars that pass that way and the time they did it. When they are up and running they generate enough work for 2 bike cops and 4 cars. I believe there is a cop car with one on it's roof.

Far out, that is impressive! I haven't heard anything about this new gizmo!

[swbarnett]

I see where you, SS and SWB are coming from but i just don't see this whole thing as a conspiracy.
It may or may not be a conspiracy. It doesn't really matter. Even if there's just a thick bunch of "safety" nutters or control freaks in power the affect is the same.

I tend to think that TPTB are using the boiling frog syndrome to their advantage because they haven't yet stepped far enough in one go to get the population as a whole up in arms. I hope I'm wrong.

[Zamiam]

So you'd rather it was an illegal act be it a token smack or good wallop?

Yep, that's really sensible and fair. Everyone, whatever the mitigating circumstances, is a criminal in your books then.

No its a stupid bloody law. When did we decide to make the Police the Judge and Jury? They should never be given discretion - I've heard of too many incidents of different people being treated differently. Thats wrong.

[scumdog]

They should never be given discretion - I've heard of too many incidents of different people being treated differently. Thats wrong.

A heap of KBers want them to use MORE discretion...:scratch:

[BoristheBiter]

It may or may not be a conspiracy. It doesn't really matter. Even if there's just a thick bunch of "safety" nutters or control freaks in power the affect is the same.

I tend to think that TPTB are using the boiling frog syndrome to their advantage because they haven't yet stepped far enough in one go to get the population as a whole up in arms. I hope I'm wrong.

As far as the safety nutters go i couldn't agree more. I see these vans as just a way to collect $$ quicker. I see far to many vehicles on the road that should just not be there and some have drivers that shouldn't either.


No its a stupid bloody law. When did we decide to make the Police the Judge and Jury? They should never be given discretion - I've heard of too many incidents of different people being treated differently. Thats wrong.

So you think that police shouldn't have discretion then?
So every time you get a ticket you have to go to court? or if you are doing 101 in a 100 you will get pulled over and have to go to court? no seat belt, off to court. Yes you'll be sentenced, or let off, by the courts but you will get the bill for it too.
Is this the idea you have?

But yes I agree about the people treated different part, but that is human nature.

[Zedder]

No its a stupid bloody law. When did we decide to make the Police the Judge and Jury? They should never be given discretion - I've heard of too many incidents of different people being treated differently. Thats wrong.

Several Judges will have different interpretations of the same law often.

[Scuba_Steve]

A heap of KBers want them to use MORE discretion...:scratch:

Na I just want them to use more female speedo cops


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZI1oWucgq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocqIg_FyB_Y

[jazfender]

A heap of KBers want them to use MORE discretion...:scratch:

Ha, like that's a sensible measure.

[Zedder]

Ha, like that's a sensible measure.

Refer to BoristheBiters post: Number 207 part two.

[jazfender]

Refer to BoristheBiters post: Number 207 part two.

I was referring to using "most KBers" as a sensible measure.

[scumdog]

Ha, like that's a sensible measure.

Yeah, in one breath it's "What gives them the right to be Judge, Jury and Executioner"

And next breath it's "Allow them to use some discretion":weird::scratch:

[BoristheBiter]

I was referring to using "most KBers" as a sensible measure.

Coming from you i will take that as a compliment.:niceone:

[Jinxycat]

Warning - Police ANPR Number Plate Reading Technology is here

ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) equipped camera vans are quietly being introduced. These have roof mounted cameras aimed at traffic travelling in both directions. Infra red and OCR (optical character recognition) technology is used to read the number plates of approaching vehicles. Details are matched against the police national database to identify vehicles with flags in addition to the obvious expired registration licence fee or Warrant Of Fitness. When a vehicle is flagged, the operator sitting in the back can notify nearby check points or mobile patrols further ahead to stop the vehicle.

Vehicle of interest flags include stolen, registration expired, registration hold, expired WOF, vehicle exemption, suspended driver, excess demerit points, petrol drive off, arrest warrant, fines warrant, previous drink driving conviction and owner or associates of interest to name a few.

For law abiding motorists with street legal vehicles there is nothing to worry about. The ability to check up to 3,000 vehicles per hour makes these vehicles and associated recourses very efficient - so efficient police claim they do the work of 25 police officers and 25 dispatchers. Mobile ANPR is also being fitted to patrol vehicles.

[bogan]

Are they using them for Rego and WOF checks? Because the initial claim was they would only be used for the high risk stuff, pink stickered cars, arrest warrants, stolen cars, etc.

[Rhys]

They have had a fixed camera in wellington trailing the system for some time

[Rhys]

Are they using them for Rego and WOF checks? Because the initial claim was they would only be used for the high risk stuff, pink stickered cars, arrest warrants, stolen cars, etc.

They also claimed the speed cameras would not be hidden :tugger:

[bogan]

They also claimed the speed cameras would not be hidden :tugger:

Yeh, I'm certain it will eventually be used for revenue gathering. But there might be a few years savings of no rego before that happens, and who knows, they might sort out the multi-vehicle-owership disparity by then.

[Akzle]

i think i need to stock up on hand grenades. :ar15:

[tigertim20]

the first post, which I assume is a copy and paste, says that the technology picks up the number plate as the vehicle approaches the van, so, no plate on the front, no problem?

[DEATH_INC.]

A mate in france says they have mobile one's over there that can recognize up to 9 separate vehicles at once, and issue you with a speeding fine too. The first thing you know about it is the ticket in the mail.
Wait for 'em, they'll be coming....
Lol, He uses Beaker as his avatar too.....that's not you Fluffy is it??? :laugh:

[Rhys]

the first post, which I assume is a copy and paste, says that the technology picks up the number plate as the vehicle approaches the van, so, no plate on the front, no problem?




These have roof mounted cameras aimed at traffic travelling in both directions. :bleh::bleh:

[flyingcr250]

Are they using them for Rego and WOF checks? Because the initial claim was they would only be used for the high risk stuff, pink stickered cars, arrest warrants, stolen cars, etc.

i think i saw that on the news a couple years ago, there was a huge thing on cambell live about it. just look at all the problems the wellington parking ticket car has been causing.

might aswell just stamp a barcode on our foreheads and form an orderly line. we're all just slaves

[Edbear]

Did someone mention that if you're not breaking the law you don't have a problem..? :scratch:

[flyingcr250]

ha imagine all the road bikers who have their bikes on hold getting surprises in the mail.

[Jinxycat]

the first post, which I assume is a copy and paste, says that the technology picks up the number plate as the vehicle approaches the van, so, no plate on the front, no problem?

yup, copy and paste all right.

[biggo]

There has been one parked by the side of the road at Plimmerton from time to time.
White Mercedes Vito van with cameras pointing forward and backwards so I think they will pick up bikes too.
Will get a photo next time I see it. :niceone:
I have just returned from holiday in UK ANPR is pretty big there . they park a police car with a camera on the roof and more cops 500mts up the road pulling people in

[tigertim20]

the first post, which I assume is a copy and paste, says that the technology picks up the number plate as the vehicle approaches the van, so, no plate on the front, no problem?

:bleh::bleh:
Sigh, read it again.



These have roof mounted cameras aimed at traffic travelling in both directions. Infra red and OCR (optical character recognition) technology is used to read the number plates of approaching vehicles..

That to me says as a car APPROACHES from the north, it can read the plate, while simultaneously reading the plate of an APPROACHING vehicle coming from the south. I would imagine that like speed camera vans, they would need to be placed at a certain point/angle in order to read the plates of vehicles in their lanes, I.E. the North facing camera would see those coming from the north towards it, but NOT be able to see a plate of a vehicle travelling TO the north, travelling AWAY from it - hence my question as to whether this wil impact motorcycles with only a rear plate differently than cars.

Am I to assume you actually have no idea as to the answer to this question?

[FJRider]

A mate in france says they have mobile one's over there that can recognize up to 9 separate vehicles at once, and issue you with a speeding fine too. The first thing you know about it is the ticket in the mail.
Wait for 'em, they'll be coming....
Lol, He uses Beaker as his avatar too.....that's not you Fluffy is it??? :laugh:

Down this way ... we use old technology. The cop wanders down the street and issues the ticket personally. (saves taxpayers money on postage)

He knows all the "cars of interest" ... and ensures a visit to that owners address ... later ...

[nallac]

Did someone mention that if you're not breaking the law you don't have a problem..? :scratch:

Wheres the fun in that tho?.

[Edbear]

Wheres the fun in that tho?.

I get a laugh out of cruising past hidden camera vehicles, marked cars and fixed speed cameras with disdain. The number of times I have rounded a corner and commented to my wife, "Good thing I wasn't speeding..."

There is a time and place and as the saying goes, "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime." or if you do choose to flout the law, accept the consequences.

[jellywrestler]

Did someone mention that if you're not breaking the law you don't have a problem..? :scratch:

not so Ed, this shit can all be recorded and if there's a crime nearby they can use the info to check all the vehicles in the area and you're on the suspect list, remember how they caught Renee Chignall?.
Next thing what about harrassing people for outstanding fines etc those maggots are going to pull you over because the owner of the vehicle is of interest to them, I don't want that thanks

[cheese]

LOL people will be moaning about this is all about revenue gathering, but all they are doing is catching those who break the rules.

If you can't afford to put a WOF and Rego on it, you can't afford to have that vehicle.

[_Shrek_]

LOL people will be moaning about this is all about revenue gathering, but all they are doing is catching those who break the rules.

If you can't afford to put a WOF and Rego on it, you can't afford to have that vehicle.

:scratch: we have 5 trailers, 3 utes, 1 truck, 4x4 & 3 bikes & it's got to a point of what do we put on hold etc... but we need them for our business & we use our bikes for both & our son uses his to get to school etc
so if we are having trouble doing Rego etc... "are you saying" we should sell them all & go on the dole as we couldn't work?

way I see it we can't drive/ride more than one vehicle, so therefore we should only be registered, which makes it fair, but the gubbermint wont do that coz they are revenue gathering so they can have their big salaries & go over seas on our taxes

[jellywrestler]

LOL people will be moaning about this is all about revenue gathering, but all they are doing is catching those who break the rules.

If you can't afford to put a WOF and Rego on it, you can't afford to have that vehicle. the WOF system is flawed, why should i need an expensive warrant the trailer i use four times a year? ditto with maybe a bike or a car that does maybe 1000kms a year. we live in a technological era that can let us have warrant on a mileage used basis.

[gwynfryn]

Shit i could rant on about the cost of bike rego, i can feel my blood pressure rise as i type this. The fact is that we are an easy target to increase ACC coffers . We are subsidising cyclists ,horse riders, rugby players,dirt bikers etc etc.
It would be interesting to see some figures on bike regos as many good honest tax paying men and women such as myself are finding ways around paying full price for bike registration.
Go the cb1300 farm bike that has its rego on hold for 6 months of every year.

[Daffyd]

the WOF system is flawed, why should i need an expensive warrant the trailer i use four times a year?


Because vehicles, especially trailers, deteriorate just as fast sitting doing nothing as they do with regular use.

[motor_mayhem]

the WOF system is flawed, why should i need an expensive warrant the trailer i use four times a year? ditto with maybe a bike or a car that does maybe 1000kms a year. we live in a technological era that can let us have warrant on a mileage used basis.

Clearly you are confused about how a wof works. It is a test to make sure your trailer is safe and that it doesn't have say a loose wheel that could fly off and bowl over some car, motorcyclist or other commuter. And yes time does allow for things like rust to set into bearings etc. unless they are properly maintained. How do we know the maintenance is being carried out that keeps the trailer safe? thus the point of the wof. And consequently it does need to be run at the current intervals. On the other hand registration is supposedly paying for your road usage and all its entailments and that system doesn't take usage into account which IMO makes it flawed.

Glad to clear that up for you.

[ktm84mxc]

There's been one in use in counties for a while it's a white Hyundai van with tinted windows and two cameras one at each end , they have been testing it for a while now it appears it's ready for use.
saw it on GT South rd Takanini 2 weeks ago with a car either side 50 meters apart, they match rego to car/bike details , if you watch the English cop shows you'll see how the system works and next it'll be you'll need third party insurance or it's a long walk home.

[sootie]

I am going to predict a fairly rapid increase in the number of these devices in use. As a revenue gathering exercise, it is likely to be more productive timewise & safer than trying to stop vehicles which are speeding.

At the moment, I imagine that the vans being used are really only being deployed on roads which are:
* long & straight
* carry a lot of traffic
* probably 80 or 100kph speed limit

I wonder if in time we will see meter maids using hand held versions, and two up cop cars driving around supermarket car parks?
What would the law be on that? :confused: