Justice [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

The Stranger

18th May 2011, 22:54

HenryDorsetCase

18th May 2011, 22:59

In another story.

"A North Canterbury business owner who apprehended two men accused of burglary at his Kaiapoi drilling company has appeared in court on kidnap charges after he “delivered” them to police."

Good old godzone - makes me want to puke.

That story didnt sit well with me either, IF the spin put on it by the media is to be believed. Out in buttholeville though, bet your ass there is another side to that story

The Stranger

18th May 2011, 23:03

bet your ass there is another side to that story

Isn't there always. I bet there is in the first post too. Still, I'm not too upset about that one either.

jaffaonajappa

18th May 2011, 23:05

That story didnt sit well with me either, IF the spin put on it by the media is to be believed. Out in buttholeville though, bet your ass there is another side to that story

Yaaaah, but theres a couple of differences in the stories - as told by the media.

1. USA - a Marine was knifed. Yanks are luvin their military again, and the cops are Hard!
2. NZ - no one was stabbed. Plod here are PC scared of any media backlash (sounds odd I know), and the cops dont know the meaning of Hard.

awayatc

19th May 2011, 00:40

Good story
great outcome...
In good old NZ however I fear the 4 Marines would have been charged........

Urano

19th May 2011, 05:02

oh man, i'd paid a bunch of bucks to be on the other side of the street...
:corn::corn:

specter

19th May 2011, 06:52

Good story
great outcome...
In good old NZ however I fear the 4 Marines would have been charged........

sadly yes :angry:

the only way you could have gotten away with that, is if the criminal was captured "unharmed" other than that the media would fuck you 6 ways till sunday

oneofsix

19th May 2011, 07:05

this sounds more like the NZ stance, and remember the police are only the messengers although how they choose to deliver that message sometimes.

Two police constables in north London threatened Louise Willows with arrest for criminal damage and forced her to clean her artwork from a city footpath. Willows had cleared off 25 doggy dumps and in their place drawn pink cupcakes in chalk (with a nearby message, "Dog owners, Please clear up your dog's mess. Children walk here")
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sideswipe/news/article.cfm?c_id=702&objectid=10726490

oldrider

19th May 2011, 08:07

this sounds more like the NZ stance, and remember the police are only the messengers although how they choose to deliver that message sometimes.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sideswipe/news/article.cfm?c_id=702&objectid=10726490

It's still, Where England goes .. New Zealand goes! Sigh .. down the bloody gurgla! :yes:

JakeTehMuss

19th May 2011, 08:24

I know this is a dredge but fits in with the topic :yes:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/1996495/Thief-slips-knocks-himself-out

oneofsix

19th May 2011, 08:49

I know this is a dredge but fits in with the topic :yes:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/1996495/Thief-slips-knocks-himself-out

so that's how you do it in NZ. You don't do the citizens arrest thing and drive them to the police station, instead you knock them out then place them on some stairs which you nicely hosed down. :rockon: Just be sure when arranging them that the body position aligns with the injury :yes:

Virago

19th May 2011, 08:59

That story didnt sit well with me either, IF the spin put on it by the media is to be believed. Out in buttholeville though, bet your ass there is another side to that story

Yep. Being charged with kidnapping for "taking them to the police station" is bullshit. I'm picking that they took them somewhere else first, to beat the shit out of them...

Banditbandit

19th May 2011, 10:07

Naaa .. the cops in Canterbury are just being impartial .. we need impartial cops. It's is not up to the cops to decide who has broken the law - that is the role of the courts ...

NZ law would have allowed the company owners to catch the crims, and hold them until the police arrived ...

Beating them so they needed hospital treatment is against the law ... you can only use "necessary force" to protect yourself, your family and your propertry. Beating the crims was more than necessary force ...

Secondly, as soon as they put the crims in their cars they were "Kidnapping" them - taking them somewhere against their will. They should have simply held them and waited for the police to arrive.

Now, the cops are being impartial and have charged the business owner and his mates ... It's up to the courts (probably a jury of 12 honest men) who will decide if the law has been broken ...

That's as it should be and I'm very pleased the cops are being impartial - it's what we need and want in our police ...

I just hope the jury of 12 members of the community make a good decision ...

oneofsix

19th May 2011, 10:33

Secondly, as soon as they put the crims in their cars they were "Kidnapping" them - taking them somewhere against their will. They should have simply held them and waited for the police to arrive.

That's the bit that is a little confusing. If there is no where suitable to hold them, open paddock or construction yard with the cops some time away, then you are saying it is still kidnapping to take them to the police station. Against their will is a bit irrelevant because arrest is against their will. Even with todays communication networks it is still possible to find yourself in a place where you can't call the cops so if you can't deliver them to the police station what are you meant to do?

scissorhands

19th May 2011, 11:10

Didnt that aspergers kid get a black eye from the Christchurch cops for stealing 2 lighbulbs and a light fitting from a building that was to be demolished? The 'face' of looting.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xtq8uvPcUbE/TXfJUokw51I/AAAAAAAAKGE/JLQQOYowifk/s1600/SCCZEN_A_010311SPLsmith_460x23078496.JPG

Whos dealing with that?

imdying

19th May 2011, 11:38

Naaa .. the cops in Canterbury are just being impartial .. we need impartial cops. It's is not up to the cops to decide who has broken the law - that is the role of the courts ...

Now, the cops are being impartial and have charged the business owner and his mates ... It's up to the courts (probably a jury of 12 honest men) who will decide if the law has been broken ...

That's as it should be and I'm very pleased the cops are being impartial - it's what we need and want in our police ...Agreed. The average constable doesn't strike me as super smart, I'd much rather they restrict themselves to the jobs they're paid to do rather than rising above their station.

Didnt that aspergers kid get a black eye from the Christchurch cops for stealing 2 lighbulbs and a light fitting from a building that was to be demolished? The 'face' of looting.Even retards aren't allowed to steal.

jim.cox

19th May 2011, 12:01

The average constable doesn't strike me as super smart

They dont want smart coppers

Bright & intelligent ones are weeded out during selection

Anyone capable of thinking for themselves is dangerous

There is a reason they are called 'Plod'

imdying

19th May 2011, 12:20

They dont want smart coppers

Bright & intelligent ones are weeded out during selectionAhhh, I thought they just moved them up the ranks quickly when they spotted them... it's possible there are no smart police in the force full stop, but I find that hard to believe.

scissorhands

19th May 2011, 12:33

Smart enough to hold up a retard as the 'face of looting', beaten and held for hardly a theft, done by hardly a 'thief'. Smart enough to see a pattern of discrimination against intellectually disabled young men who face a myriad of problems in society? Exacerbated by unfairly being made an example?

yeah right real clever

imdying

19th May 2011, 12:52

Theft is theft... if he is that fucked up that he can't manage that, put him in a mental home :bye:

slofox

19th May 2011, 13:07

put him in a mental home :bye:

We don't have those any more - loony bins went out in the 70's...nowadays they are all in "community care"...whatever that is

oneofsix

19th May 2011, 13:13

We don't have those any more - loony bins went out in the 70's...nowadays they are all in "community care"...whatever that is

"community care" is a great concept. You give them a prescription and then let the police sort it out when the victim doesn't take their drugs.
The alternative is spend a fortune on nurse and health care workers to visit them and ensure the treatment is working but that costs more than the old institutions.

Virago

19th May 2011, 13:19

"community care" is a great concept. You give them a prescription and then let the police sort it out when the victim doesn't take their drugs.
The alternative is spend a fortune on nurse and health care workers to visit them and ensure the treatment is working but that costs more than the old institutions.

Probably cost less than "caring" provided in prisons - but I guess that's a different budget...

oneofsix

19th May 2011, 13:20

Probably cost less than "caring" provided in prisons - but I guess that's a different budget...

yeah, and it also helps with the 'tough on crime'. The polies can say look how many arrests have been made. Back fires a bit when they review the crime stats :facepalm:

Banditbandit

19th May 2011, 16:33

That's the bit that is a little confusing. If there is no where suitable to hold them, open paddock or construction yard with the cops some time away, then you are saying it is still kidnapping to take them to the police station. Against their will is a bit irrelevant because arrest is against their will.

Yes, arrest is against their will. But the police act gives police the power to hold people against their will. As does he Corrections Act.

Even with todays communication networks it is still possible to find yourself in a place where you can't call the cops so if you can't deliver them to the police station what are you meant to do?

I'm not a lawyer - I suppose let them Go - not ideal .. but once you've seen them you can identify them later ....

Banditbandit

19th May 2011, 16:34

Didnt that aspergers kid get a black eye from the Christchurch cops for stealing 2 lighbulbs and a light fitting from a building that was to be demolished? The 'face' of looting.

Whos dealing with that?

He might have tried to struggle with the cops and got a black eye then .. maybe he hit the floor or a desk too hard and o the wrong angle ...

Don't jump to conclusions so fast ..

jaffaonajappa

19th May 2011, 19:29

Yes, arrest is against their will. But the police act gives police the power to hold people against their will. As does he Corrections Act.

I'm not a lawyer - I suppose let them Go - not ideal .. but once you've seen them you can identify them later ....

Ok, any armchair (or real?) lawyers know the fine print for making a citizens arrest? Or making an arrest on behalf of a policeman (ie approval over the phone?). From memory - it can be done, but must be done exactly by the book or you find urself in a world of trouble (ala kidnapping charges).

jaffaonajappa

19th May 2011, 19:33

He might have tried to struggle with the cops and got a black eye then .. maybe he hit the floor or a desk too hard and o the wrong angle ...

Don't jump to conclusions so fast ..

Personally - I applaud the hard-line that them Aussie cops took in Chch, and which the local cops seem to have followed - during the state of National Emergency.

The rules were well advertised - 'anyone' caught would face the harshest penalties, and proly (Probably, Hitcher..) denied Bail. Hes lucky he didnt have his leg broken 'whilst preventing his escape your honour'. But yes - its unfortunate in this one case considering his circumstance.

What would have happened to him if he was caught looting in other parts of the world during a national emergency? More than just a bruising Id wager.

Smifffy

19th May 2011, 19:43

Yes, arrest is against their will. But the police act gives police the power to hold people against their will. As does he Corrections Act.

I'm not a lawyer - I suppose let them Go - not ideal .. but once you've seen them you can identify them later ....

The thing is it is crap like that which encourages the average citizen to take the law into their own hands in the first place.

Next time the bloke might think if he is going to get done for kidnapping, then he may as well incarcerate them properly, rather than deliver them to the police station.

HenryDorsetCase

19th May 2011, 20:01

Yes, arrest is against their will. But the police act gives police the power to hold people against their will. As does he Corrections Act.

I'm not a lawyer - I suppose let them Go - not ideal .. but once you've seen them you can identify them later ....

I would have thought that the common law relating to citizens arrest would still be relevant?

Meh, if there's no one around, cut their throats, section up the bodies, smash the skull and boil in lye.

What burglar?

HenryDorsetCase

19th May 2011, 20:03

The cocky that "kidnapped" these lowlives should get a bloody medal, not harassed through the courts.

having said that, it'll be a jury trial, and he will walk.

JimO

19th May 2011, 20:16

pity there wasnt a mineshaft handy

HenryDorsetCase

19th May 2011, 23:07

There's a Drive By Truckers lyric for every occasion, and todays is Sinkhole, from the fantastically great album Decoration Day:

Bury his body in the old sink hole under cold November sky
Then damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
Damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
Damned if I wouldn’t go to church on Sunday
and look the Preacher in the eye.

-Q-Ma6UlrtA

p.dath

20th May 2011, 07:35

Love it. 4 peoples word against one. Hard to explain the injuries though ...

Smifffy

20th May 2011, 08:38

Love it. 4 peoples word against one. Hard to explain the injuries though ...

Not hard to explain at all. He fell off the curb.

I Just hope it wasn't caught on some do-gooder's phone cam.

awayatc

20th May 2011, 09:22

Not every country is as bleeding hearted as good old NZ...
when in Netherlands a short time ago I read a small sideline article:

The police attended a burglary and the burglar ran away when confronted by police....Luckily the cops managed to shoot him...
Done.
Not 1 Bleeding heart comment...
no public outcry
Cops done their job.
Got the little bastard..
You take your chances....accept the consequences

...