$15 minimum wage?

[superman]

Labour are the biggest idiots in the world. You can see them after the "dumb" vote here, trying to gain votes from low skilled workers who would instantly benefit with a 15% increase in wages due in no part to their skill/hard work.

The thought of my own job increasing $2 per hour seems ridiculous, $13 seems very nice for all I have to do and it seems overkill to increase it by so much.
There goes even the thought of voting for them! :facepalm:

[Murray]

And what about the people who have worked hard to get $15, $16-$20 an hour - Nuthing!!!

[SMOKEU]

It's about time the minimum wage got increased because there are too many employers out there who are taking advantage of people by paying them too little.

[Ronin]

It's about time the minimum wage got increased because there are too many employers out there who are taking advantage of people by paying them too little.

Try owning your own business, then see if you agree with your own statement.

[superman]

It's about time the minimum wage got increased because there are too many employers out there who are taking advantage of people by paying them too little.

Look for another job, if you prove to your boss you are working above your wage they will boost your pay especially if you can absolutely prove you are of a much higher value compared to other minimum wage earners.

If a pay rise isn't affordable then why force it upon business owners, certain jobs are not worth minimum wage whatsoever. The minimum wage should in no way be sustainable, it should make people want to reach a higher level within their careers, make them want to continue education relevant to their career path etc, etc. If you cannot afford to live on what you earn you can always go to WINZ and ask for a food grant until you've managed to get yourself an increase. No reason to burden business owners rather than burden the low skilled workers.

Don't promote laziness!

[Maha]

I was paying two employees $15 per hour 14-15 years ago....decent enough money then/shit money now.. if you compare apples with apples.
Minimum wage will still be shit money @ $15ph.
Ok for a kid straight out of school and dropkicks who secure a real job which is where it is targeted I guess?

[Motig]

Look for another job, if you prove to your boss you are working above your wage they will boost your pay especially if you can absolutely prove you are of a much higher value compared to other minimum wage earners

Sometimes I'm sure the earth is a meeting point for several parallel universes cos the above certainly doesn't happen in the earth I live in.

[SPman]

Look for another job, if you prove to your boss you are working above your wage they will boost your pay especially if you can absolutely prove you are of a much higher value compared to other minimum wage earners

Sometimes I'm sure the earth is a meeting point for several parallel universes cos the above certainly doesn't happen in the earth I live in.
How long has mr superman been around? in an ideal world, this would indeed be the case - sadly, it is notable by the exception, rather than the rule....most bosses wouldn't know how to organise a shit in a dunny, let alone recognise and reward workers who pull well above their weight.

[Crash 42]

Sure, for the sake of argument, should minimum wage go up, people will be able to buy more on minimum wage, but just wait until the prices rise as employers compensate for an increase in the cost of getting their products/services out there. The inflation just makes the rise null and void.

Minimum wage should never go up above inflation, it is stupid to do so because all it creates is excessive inflation the next year & a higher rate of unemployment due to businesses being unable to sustain production (and therefore staff) at such a high cost per unit sold.

People who have an issue with minimum wage are those who think it's there so that all who earn it can live a life of luxury, to think that is just retarded, I'm sorry. So long as minimum wage at full time hours can sustain a house, food and basic luxuries, then that is exactly what it should do.

If people want to raise minimum wage so they can live more comfortably, here is a suggestion, go do a course, go to night school, go to university, f**k even work to a promotion!? Because that is the only realistic way it will happen.

[White trash]

I'm in two minds. Being employed by a small business, I can see the pitfalls of having to suddenly fork out a huge extra for wages all of a sudden. That being said, I think alot of businesses are taking their workers for a ride in terms of pay rates without good reason.

National have been wanking on about shortening the pay gap with Australia for three years now but no plan in place to get there. This is.

[White trash]

People who have an issue with minimum wage are those who think it's there so that all who earn it can live a life of luxury, to think that is just retarded, I'm sorry. So long as minimum wage at full time hours can sustain a house, food and basic luxuries, then that is exactly what it should do.

Are you on drugs?

Minimum wage equates to arround $500 p/week before tax. How would you expect a young fella with a new baby so missus has had to stop work, house, feed and cloth them for that?

[Crash 42]

Tax credits, not to mention the benefit that the missus will receive from the government, believe it or not, the government did think about that, its not going to be flash, comfortable lifestyle, but did it not cross the young fella's mind before he started a family?!

[Waxxa]

there are jobs in this world which are low paid and deservedly so!

by having a minimum wage (at any $ph) stops a huge amount of jobs that could be taken up by 'our' teenagers or pensioners for example.

People over the years have educated themselves into a position where they are earning more now, which in most cases has cost a fortune in that education and I would suspect after all this, would be on an hourly rate not much more that the minimum! If you dont like what you're doing, get the education and change!

most of us start out on a low paying job and work our way out of it! why should there be a mimimum? and where do you stop the minimum, its $13ph now, why not $15ph or $18ph...?

[schrodingers cat]

It's about time the minimum wage got increased because there are too many employers out there who are taking advantage of people by paying them too little.

In my experience, the bulk of minimum wage workers aren't even worth that.

They cost you a fortune in fuck ups and general poor performance.

Employers (on the whole) aren't bogie monsters.
They take 100% of the risk.
The employee gets paid to turn up and a slew of legislation protects them as they drag a business down.

[sinfull]

You really want me to get out of bed ? Then someone is gonna have to make it worthwhile ! Won't even blink for 15 an hour !
The OP saying 13 buck an hour is all good, makes me sick, the problem with this country is all the apathetic pricks who run around saying i'm ok !
FUCK MAN You get 2 buck an hour more and your family has 80 buck a week more to spend in our economy, sheesh how hard is it to work out the employer can make more from his product if there is more money around to grab ?

[Maha]

In my experience, the bulk of minimum wage workers aren't even worth that.

They cost you a fortune in fuck ups and general poor performance.

Employers (on the whole) aren't bogie monsters.
They take 100% of the risk.
The employee gets paid to turn up and a slew of legislation protects them as they drag a business down.

This is all true in alot of cases...
If you are not on a minimum wage, you obviously have skills that allow you to enjoy a proper job/career/trade earning better money.
I scan my own shopping at the Supermarket and I consider myself more efficient at it than those in lanes 1-2-3-4 etc.

[\m/]

If you are sick of your dead end shithole job you should quit. Thats what I did, I was sick of being overworked, underpaid and treated like shit so I left and got myself a decent job with decent pay.

[slofox]

I have been self-employed for over 25 years. I have been an employer in two businesses.

I have never paid minimum wages - always well above. (Except to myself of course - I've always been well under minimum wage...:angry:) I have always felt I got value for the money I paid. BUT. You have to select your staff carefully.

Like they say, pay peanuts, get monkeys.

[The Everlasting]

Like they say, pay peanuts, get monkeys.



Maybe if you pay cashews,you may get slightly smarter monkeys?

[slofox]

Maybe if you pay cashews,you may get slightly smarter monkeys?


Hey - yeah! Never thought of that!

[Maha]

Hey - yeah! Never thought of that!

Just mind the chocolate coated ones....:blink:

[AllanB]

Several responses spring to mind.

1. Labour was in power for 9 years - surely they should have done this over 3 years ago, not announce it as a unfunded election bribe. Sick of their moaning already!

2. Any increase in the minimum wage tends to have a flow-on affect to wages above them. LEts face it if you are on 15-16 per now and some new kid on 13 suddenly gets $15 you are going to bet your arse your boss will hear about it!

3. I hate election year. Wakers making bull-shit promises that they can not realistically fund without screwing someone else. All parties. Moaning, bullshitting and lying.

[DrunkenMistake]

Meh its just a vote stealer, wouldnt happen,

I work in a super market and you would think oh yah min wage.
Well funny story, our company sets their own minimum wage, or 'starting' wage, which is $14, and in June I believe its going up to $15, in saying that unless you move up the management food chain you dont get any other pay rises.

[steve_t]

The other thing is that with increases in minimum wage, I've always increased my staff's wage rates to maintain the same distance above it, at the time. I wonder how bike shops and other small businesses will fare with an increased min wage rate.

[JimO]

I wonder how bike shops and other small businesses will fare with an increased min wage rate.

well obviously prices would have to go up but then more people would complain about the cost of their stock and buy it on ebay

[sil3nt]

Meh its just a vote stealer, wouldnt happen,

I work in a super market and you would think oh yah min wage.
Well funny story, our company sets their own minimum wage, or 'starting' wage, which is $14, and in June I believe its going up to $15, in saying that unless you move up the management food chain you dont get any other pay rises.Progressive i am assuming? I used to work for them. Pay was always slightly above minimum. I now work for Foodstuffs and pay is minimum and they really do not like to move from that.

[JimO]

Progressive i am assuming? I used to work for them. Pay was always slightly above minimum. I now work for Foodstuffs and pay is minimum and they really do not like to move from that.

why stay??

[sil3nt]

why stay??You seem to think anyone can just leave a job and walk into a higher paying job...

I am staying because it is part time work while i study.

There are quite a number of skilled staff working at this supermarket because there is nothing out there for them.

[JimO]

i didnt seem to think anything, i just asked why stay if you get minimum wage, your choice i dont really care.

[sil3nt]

i didnt seem to think anything, i just asked why stay if you get minimum wage, your choice i dont really care.Sorry thought you made a post earlier but it was someone else :facepalm:

[Katman]

Where would this leave workshop owners?

Who in their right mind would want to take on an apprentice, who will actually be costing you money for a considerable time, and pay them $600 per week?

[huff3r]

i didnt seem to think anything, i just asked why stay if you get minimum wage, your choice i dont really care.

Well again you say "your choice" but as he points out, there really isnt much of a choice.

And those who say you should be trying to move into a better job if your on minimum, and that minimum should not be sustainable...

Thats a load of bollocks, the minimum-wagers are required so you can get your fast food and everything else so cheap that you love. You cant have everybody earning above minimum wage!

Personally I welcome the change, particularly as with the expenses I incurr for work I'm left pocketing $8-9 an hour most the time. And im not in the position to move into a better job, as nowhere else was willing to hire me full-time on a temporary (3 month) basis.

Also many such minimum wage jobs do not provide full-time hours as well, so another hurdle for those stuck there.

[huff3r]

Where would this leave workshop owners?

Who in their right mind would want to take on an apprentice, who will actually be costing you money for a considerable time, and pay them $600 per week?

I was under the impression that apprentices were exempt to a degree from the minimum wage? i.e you pay them less in exchange for their training?

[jaffaonajappa]

@ $15ph.
Ok for a kid straight out of school and dropkicks who secure a real job I guess?

Sad to hear you think this.

But reading the thread - I see quite a few have similar thoughts. And some others have the opposite.

Yet another thread where its black or white, love or hate, yes or no. So a bunch of people with little or no experiences outside their peer groups, jump in and mouth off.

Unemployment is high. Jobs are scarce. In many sectors. Some great workers are struggling to secure more than the minimum wage at the moment.

And yeah - the guys earning minimum wages are not investing this money - well not usually. They are surviving on it. ie, they are spending it here in NZ, on goods and basic services. Therefore the money circulates.....

So, we are aiming for 4% growth?

[Sable]

Whilst I was working for Foodstuffs there were a lot of fuckups and lardarses around. The manager of my department said that I was one of her best employees and she still treated me like shit, paid me $13 an hour and the work was fucking hard.

[Mom]

I scan my own shopping at the Supermarket and I consider myself more efficient at it than those in lanes 1-2-3-4 etc.

Dont be doing that! Hells teeth it is saving the supermarket money in wages, they dont have to employ so many lane 1-2-3-4 workers, and whats more they dont give you a discount for serving yourself :rofl:

Remind me to come to the stupid market to observe you being a checkout chick :love:


Well funny story, our company sets their own minimum wage, or 'starting' wage, which is $14, and in June I believe its going up to $15, in saying that unless you move up the management food chain you dont get any other pay rises.

Ignoring the industry you work in, that is good common sense employment happening right there.


Who in their right mind would want to take on an apprentice, who will actually be costing you money for a considerable time, and pay them $600 per week?

Be a very expensive apprentice for a business to fund until he/she can actually pay their own way. Never again for this gal.


I was under the impression that apprentices were exempt to a degree from the minimum wage? i.e you pay them less in exchange for their training?

Um, what part of minimum wage are you missing? And no, you pay for their training, by paying their wages while they attend bock courses and dont work for you, depending on hoe generous you are, you can also pay for travel and accomodation etc while they are away.

I have no problem with apprenticeships, infact I think that would be a great way for this country to get moving again. Encourage more kids into trades, with good incentives to employers to support them in the process. Too many kids pushed to a tertiary degree that equates to 5/8 of fuck all at the end of years of study amassing debt each year.

[Mom]

$15 per hour equates to a wage of $31K or thereabouts. Fuck off! All well and good for the minimum wage earner I guess, but I would hate to see the flow on effect of that in the market.

[Blackshear]

I can live relatively comfortable on 13.7 p/h before tax, but by that I mean I have about $100 a week to spend on whatever the fuck I want. Be it part of a new back tyre, front brakes or registration...
And that's with rent at $80 a week.

[DrunkenMistake]

Progressive i am assuming? I used to work for them. Pay was always slightly above minimum. I now work for Foodstuffs and pay is minimum and they really do not like to move from that.

Yup they arnt that bad to work for, im working 40 hours a week for them at the moment, im not too worried about it I could possibly be moving into a long life 2IC position, but that only puts me up to $18, there isnt alot going around at the moment so im happy to keep what I have for the mean time, I could always work at the port for something crazy like $26 an hour starting rate.

[Maha]

Sad to hear you think this.

But reading the thread - I see quite a few have similar thoughts. And some others have the opposite.

Yet another thread where its black or white, love or hate, yes or no. So a bunch of people with little or no experiences outside their peer groups, jump in and mouth off.

Unemployment is high. Jobs are scarce. In many sectors. Some great workers are struggling to secure more than the minimum wage at the moment.

And yeah - the guys earning minimum wages are not investing this money - well not usually. They are surviving on it. ie, they are spending it here in NZ, on goods and basic services. Therefore the money circulates.....

So, we are aiming for 4% growth?

Jobs are not scarce, what is scarce is the nouse to get in and do...some 'job lookers' are just to choosey.
Thats why unemployment is where it is...some just dont want to be employed.

[fuknKIWI]

:gob: NZ my favorite third world country...thankfuck we didn't sell our house a couple of years ago...even though I was plannong on starting my own business before thinking about buying a house...it would've been just outsied shaky twon near earthquake central (Darfield)...if I'd hored staff I would've been selective & paid over the minimum for seasonal workers.

[scissorhands]

Its really here nor there. More money will be spent on smokes and pies, saving up for a cheap car or moving to OZ will have to wait slightly longer.

To do some good in godszone, the content on the telly is all that needs to be changed.

Dumb them down some more

[JMemonic]

I am of two minds, there are certainly jobs for which the current minimum wage applies, and I can think of some where that would be over the top, but I am also aware there are employers who are making a huge profit and paying as little as possible.

One that comes to mind is the rest home/retirement industry, some of those carers work long hours in sometimes thankless tasks dealing with dementia patients and all that entails, they are dam good at their jobs, show care and respect to their charges and are paid peanuts while the employers which are sometimes multinationals are raking profits in profits charging both the relatives and government for the care of these folks, in cases I understand they get paid the residents pension plus additional funding from the DHB, if the resident is lucky they see maybe $10-$20 week as spending money, the person who maybe looks after up to 20 residents gets minimum wage and threaten that if they want a pay rise the employer can plead hardship with the government and import foreign workers.

[JMemonic]

I could always work at the port for something crazy like $26 an hour starting rate.

That could be a bad mistake, hell letting you have all that money would be similar to letting a five year old loose in a candy shop and telling them they can eat what they, and as much as they want.

Besides Kemet would have to put up with you more often and that could get nasty :shutup::lol:

[sil3nt]

Yup they arnt that bad to work for, im working 40 hours a week for them at the moment, im not too worried about it I could possibly be moving into a long life 2IC position, but that only puts me up to $18, there isnt alot going around at the moment so im happy to keep what I have for the mean time, I could always work at the port for something crazy like $26 an hour starting rate.I was offered a 2IC position. Turned it down and quit. Bit silly but at that stage i had been there 2 years and couldn't stand the place. Few years down the track im still at a supermarket getting paid less :facepalm:

Supermarkets are a good place to work if you don't mind being stuck in one your whole life. They offer good management training and you can end up on decent pay if you stick with it.

[Ocean1]

Why do we have a class of employee where the government defines what they're worth?

Why would an employer continue to hire someone that might just have been worth $13/hr on a good day but at $15/hr will cost the company 16 dollars a day?

There's only one way anyone's worth $15/hr. They earn it.

[blue rider]

Fordism is "the eponymous manufacturing system designed to spew out standardized, low-cost goods and afford its workers decent enough wages to buy them"

Somewhere we are not doing it right these times. They had better ideas at the beginning of the twenties century. At least the Ford guy understood that if his staff ain't buying he is/will be out of business quickly.

I once had this job in a bakery/chocolate store, none of the shop staff had any idea of how the cakes/chocolates tasted, they could not afford them on the minimum wage. :facepalm: selling stuff without knowledge....

But seriously how anyone can live on minimum wage in a city like Auckland as an adult - even a single one without any family depending on them, and pay rent and eat is beyond me, unless they go flatting till they get married and eat ramen? And they are supposed to safe for retirement?

I count myself lucky to not only have a job, but one that pays a living wage.

[scumdog]

Several responses spring to mind.

1. Labour was in power for 9 years - surely they should have done this over 3 years ago, not announce it as a unfunded election bribe. Sick of their moaning already!

.

Yep, NINE years to get stuf sorted and didn't.

And now have the gall to bitch their arses off because National hasn't done it and the cheek to say "We will do when we get into power"...sheesh!:angry:

[jaffamont]

Problem is not the minimum wage, problem is that it is such a relevant figure. If you look at our Australian cousins the minimum wage figure is pretty much irrelevant (do a poll on the street and most aussies would not know the figure), there's plenty of work therefore employers feel obliged to look after the decent workers, and workers feel valued hence they are more likely to be a productive and positive asset to the company. Unfortunately the NZ model seems to be evolving the other way where the whole thing is a big game of tit for tat.. I pay fuck all cause they do fuck all. Pay me fuck all and i'll do fuck all. And then we all go off to our corner and tell our respective teams what a bunch of wankers the other ones are. Something needs to change.

[blue rider]

I pay fuck all cause they do fuck all. Pay me fuck all and i'll do fuck all. And then we all go off to our corner and tell our respective teams what a bunch of wankers the other ones are. Something needs to change.

this...is where the country is at the moment, to much tit for tat, but no real ideas

[Mully]

Jobs are not scarce, what is scarce is the nouse to get in and do...some 'job lookers' are just to choosey.
Thats why unemployment is where it is...some just dont want to be employed.

"You Must spread some rep, etc"

Dead right. I've never had a problem getting a job. Even if it was for $8/hour doing shit job in a warehouse. And I was on monthly pay too.

You do what you gotta do. If I'd had to, I would have gone around picking up cans to recycle to pay rent.

Too many people think they're better than the jobs that are out there.

[/rant]

[Pussy]

How do the poor buggers buy smokes and booze on $13.00/hour?? :whistle:

[Mully]

How do the poor buggers buy smokes and booze on $13.00/hour?? :whistle:

http://www.workingforfamilies.govt.nz/

[JimO]

Sorry thought you made a post earlier but it was someone else :facepalm:

no problermo

[DrunkenMistake]

That could be a bad mistake, hell letting you have all that money would be similar to letting a five year old loose in a candy shop and telling them they can eat what they, and as much as they want.

Besides Kemet would have to put up with you more often and that could get nasty :shutup::lol:

haha yah, my old man works there too, hes on the actual wharf not the sheds, the only problem with the wharf is its 7am to 3pm, 3pm to 11pm or 11pm to 7am and you find out which shift your doing at 3pm the day before, so you ring at 3, and find out your working at 11 that night.
Noooo Sir, not for me, If I didnt have a misses and all it wouldnt worry me so much, maybe a in a couple of years when I get my shit together and have a house and all.

[jaffaonajappa]

Wondering what NZ's attitude was to this topic say - 60 years ago. 1950's era.
Did we champion increasing the gap between rich and poor? - Did the Unions get involved and ensure some form of equality? ok, historians out there can point out that we started going broke after some failed socail experiment or other - but if the great Dollar is your number #1 priority - move to Sydney or the mines in WA. Live that lifestyle. Or if you prefer NZ, with kiwis still retaining some old school kiwi attitdues - think twice before wanting to keep the poor, poor.

[Woodman]

And those who say you should be trying to move into a better job if your on minimum, and that minimum should not be sustainable...

Thats a load of bollocks, the minimum-wagers are required so you can get your fast food and everything else so cheap that you love. You cant have everybody earning above minimum wage!

Yes of course there is always going to be people on minimum wage, the difference is that some will do something about it and change jobs or work their way up, and all power to them, but unfortunately there are some who channel that energy into moaning about their plight (whilst smoking expensive ciggys:angry:) and finding new ways to skive off. They deserve minimum wage.

Heres an idea, why not have it so that the minimum wage is set as a percentage of the basic politicians hourly rate/salary.

[NighthawkNZ]

Lets take the easy way out... just put up minimum wage... lets not tackle the cost of living and try and lower that, thats way too hard ...


another put the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, instead of building the fence at the top of the cliff...

[Howie]

Heres an idea, why not have it so that the minimum wage is set as a percentage of the basic politicians hourly rate/salary.

So what percentage of the basic NZ Member of parliments salary would you think of as fair?? How many hours a year do MP's work for there Salary?

Do you know what the basic slary for a MP is before expenses etc?

actually not a bad idea woodman, as MP's salaries have tended to rise a lot faster than the average wage in NZ in recent years, it could actually help us catch up with Australia.

[jaffaonajappa]

So what percentage of the basic NZ Member of parliments salary would you think of as fair?? How many hours a year do MP's work for there Salary?

Do you know what the basic slary for a MP is before expenses etc?

actually not a bad idea woodman, as MP's salaries have tended to rise a lot faster than the average wage in NZ in recent years, it could actually help us catch up with Australia.

Ok...math time?

If an MP gets $150,000.00 per year, divide by the number of hours the MP works for the money.

Define "work"?
Otherwise its 150,000.00 divided by a big fat Zero? For the majority of them.

[DrunkenMistake]

Ok...math time?

If an MP gets $150,000.00 per year, divide by the number of hours the MP works for the money.

Define "work"?
Otherwise its 150,000.00 divided by a big fat Zero? For the majority of them.
On that note,
http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/C225CBD7-A9DA-4144-AA23-3C7BD387AC20/94903/Parliamentarysalariesandallowancesdetermination200 .pdf
the last page lists the allowances, why are they getting paid for again? haha they dont need money almost everything is supplied haha

[superman]

Are you on drugs?

Minimum wage equates to arround $500 p/week before tax. How would you expect a young fella with a new baby so missus has had to stop work, house, feed and cloth them for that?

Who the fuck told them to have a kid when they can't afford one?! :facepalm: Minimum wage should be there for those starting jobs, so decision number one is workers fault... have a baby. Decision number 2 to let the missus not work is an absolute idealism if you're on minimum wage, again their own decision. It should not be a government driven socialist scheme to have sustainable "family" income on minimum wage. A single person can afford to live on minimum wage, a family? Well you shouldn't have a bloody family till you can afford one!! It's that simple.

[DrunkenMistake]

Who the fuck told them to have a kid when they can't afford one?! :facepalm: Minimum wage should be there for those starting jobs, so decision number one is workers fault... have a baby. Decision number 2 to let the missus not work is an absolute idealism if you're on minimum wage, again their own decision. It should not be a government driven socialist scheme to have sustainable "family" income on minimum wage. A single person can afford to live on minimum wage, a family? Well you shouldn't have a bloody family till you can afford one!! It's that simple.

+1
A couple can live on 1000 a week so thats 2 people on Min, thats your rent, food power, fuel etc etc and saving.

When people are dumb enough to have a kid because its a 'good' idea at the time, then I have no sympathy, you have to think shit through before you do it especially when you involve a child.

[superman]

+1
A couple can live on 1000 a week so thats 2 people on Min, thats your rent, food power, fuel etc etc and saving.

When people are dumb enough to have a kid because its a 'good' idea at the time, then I have no sympathy, you have to think shit through before you do it especially when you involve a child.

Exactly, and even then our government like to handout shit to these people, there's working for families etc. Again the tax payer is burdened with idiots, why swap the burden onto businesses and drive up inflation. It's obviously a government issue if education is so bad people don't realise that having a kid when they can't afford to feed it/cloth it is a bad idea.

[Goblin]

I am of two minds, there are certainly jobs for which the current minimum wage applies, and I can think of some where that would be over the top, but I am also aware there are employers who are making a huge profit and paying as little as possible.

One that comes to mind is the rest home/retirement industry, some of those carers work long hours in sometimes thankless tasks dealing with dementia patients and all that entails, they are dam good at their jobs, show care and respect to their charges and are paid peanuts while the employers which are sometimes multinationals are raking profits in profits charging both the relatives and government for the care of these folks, in cases I understand they get paid the residents pension plus additional funding from the DHB, if the resident is lucky they see maybe $10-$20 week as spending money, the person who maybe looks after up to 20 residents gets minimum wage and threaten that if they want a pay rise the employer can plead hardship with the government and import foreign workers.Very valid points here!

Another example is the comercial cleaning. The Peter Baker types who have their fingers in all sorts of pies, get the contracts worth squillions and pay minimum wage to the actual cleaners. Middle management scam the workers hours so they get even less than min wage. These are the kind of jobs that no one wants to do but need to be done. We need to pay these people what they're worth because without them we would be living in filth.

For every min wage earner who works hard and deserves more, there are a hundreds who will work for less.

[ellipsis]

...theres far too many over educated fools in the country...some are on the minimum wage..some run the show..

[Clockwork]

And what about the people who have worked hard to get $15, $16-$20 an hour - Nuthing!!!

You know..... that's about the only worthy argument I've ever seen against raising the minimum wage!

[oneofsix]

You know..... that's about the only worthy argument I've ever seen against raising the minimum wage!

the answer to that would be to legislate that all wage and salary earners get a $2 raise.

[JimO]

the answer to that would be to legislate that all wage and salary earners get a $2 raise.

that will cost jobs

[oneofsix]

that will cost jobs

oh shit panic panic. It might lower profits but not cost jobs. Novel idea, instead of high wages for CEO and takes for share holders put more money in the pockets of the workers who them spend it in NZ and the money goes around instead of increasing overseas debt. :woohoo: $5m to Telco and Banking CEOs who are foreigners to spent back in their own countries :shit: I could buy a lot of bikes for just one of their salaries, OK some of the purchase price goes back to the companies country but some stays in country at the bike shop, importer and GST etc.

[allycatz]

Would be nice in the caregiving industry. Minimum caregivers wage in OZ is $18.50 an hour compared to some at our work who have started on around $13.65. My hourly rate is $14.69 and increases by $2.50 an hour if I work Sat and Sun nights. I can work sometimes 12 out of 14 days, still doesn't add up to 40 hours a week. After paying Child support (absolutely no objections to this, except for ex who still lays carpet as well as collecting DPB) I can end up with around $575 for two weeks work......yeah sometimes I wonder why I get out of bed too!

[Murray]

Anyone who thinks this won't cost jobs needs to think again. Look at how much work has already gone overseas due to cheap labour off shore. The more we raise minimum wages the more companies will source offshore labour and products. NZ manufacturers are already struggling against imports and parallel imports!!

[oneofsix]

Anyone who thinks this won't cost jobs needs to think again. Look at how much work has already gone overseas due to cheap labour off shore. The more we raise minimum wages the more companies will source offshore labour and products. NZ manufacturers are already struggling against imports and parallel imports!!

umm by that logic the Aussie are unemployed :yes: and the yanks :yes: all and don't forget teh poms and just about every other friggering country in the OCED

[Murray]

umm by that logic the Aussie are unemployed :yes: and the yanks :yes: all and don't forget teh poms and just about every other friggering country in the OCED

Yes but the Aussies are mineral rich and have a vastly larger popualtion, the USA are also mineral and agricultural rich and have a vastly larger population. Don't know that the Poms have a minimum wage, when I was there in 84 there certainly wasnt, worked live in at a pub for a pound an hour

[NighthawkNZ]

the answer to that would be to legislate that all wage and salary earners get a $2 raise.
or tackle the cost of living....

[oneofsix]

or tackle the cost of living....

It does in a relative way

[MisterD]

Don't know that the Poms have a minimum wage, when I was there in 84 there certainly wasnt, worked live in at a pub for a pound an hour

Yep, it came in in 1999 currently GBP6.08/hr...so that's less than NZ in real terms, never mind versus cost of living :shit:

[Banditbandit]

Labour are the biggest idiots in the world. You can see them after the "dumb" vote here, trying to gain votes from low skilled workers who would instantly benefit with a 15% increase in wages due in no part to their skill/hard work.

The thought of my own job increasing $2 per hour seems ridiculous, $13 seems very nice for all I have to do and it seems overkill to increase it by so much.
There goes even the thought of voting for them! :facepalm:

Equally - it vould be the smartest move in the world .. the point is not to get everyone voting for you - but just the majority ... there are many many more lower paid workers in NZ than rich people .... (one factory owner with many workers) If only the rich vote National and only the lower paid vote Labour we will have a Labour Government ...

and you must be one of the two people in tuis country who think $13 an hour is a reasonable wage ..

[superman]

and you must be one of the two people in tuis country who think $13 an hour is a reasonable wage ..

You think the lowest skilled jobs in our country deserve more? Though I guess slowly you see them disappearing, be it self scanning checkouts and what not.

[allycatz]

You think the lowest skilled jobs in our country deserve more? Though I guess slowly you see them disappearing, be it self scanning checkouts and what not.

Caregiving ISN"T a low skilled job.....love to see where we all going to be if THAT job dissapears when we reach old age

[ellipsis]

Yes but the Aussies are mineral rich and have a vastly larger popualtion, the USA are also mineral and agricultural rich and have a vastly larger population. Don't know that the Poms have a minimum wage, when I was there in 84 there certainly wasnt, worked live in at a pub for a pound an hour

...I thought we were mineral rich too..we only have to dig in places we aren't allowed to..we cant have our cake and eat it too, they say (they?)...wouldn't matter a fuck to the worker anyway...the profits would be sucked out of the country before they even hit the light of day...we are our own worst enemy...everyone gets polarised around the issue of the day and the rogues who are 'given' custody of our country run off and do what they like...mainly to our detriment and their short sighted political and personal gain...its been going on for a few thousand years already...will continue to do so...just history...up and down...round and round...vote another bunch in and it carries on...a sensible , benevolent dictator would be the ideal...no such thing...at some point in our history, sooner or later, we will not exist ...we have been sold to the highest bidders already...then it all starts again...no such thing as black and white on the planet..only grey and change...too much thinking and talking...not enough doing...I feel for the honest bloke/blokess that has to slave for an existence...but at the end of it all..when the shit hits, whether its a natural disaster or a global monetary collapse...the poor man will carry on carrying on, and be well versed in it...those who have it all will not have it all and they struggle...up and down...round and round...talk, talk...

[Banditbandit]

You think the lowest skilled jobs in our country deserve more? Though I guess slowly you see them disappearing, be it self scanning checkouts and what not.

Mate ... the economy works for us .. we don't work for the economy ... The reason why we are in the shit is that the owners and capitalist overlords have taken all their money and built pleasure palaces in places like Dubai ... the reason wht the world's economy is in the shit is, in the end, because the rich have sucked out all the money for their toys ...

They built these islands in the sea for Gawd's sake .. how much did that cost? And how much does it cost to live there? Just look at it ...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5vkPiCEjjdg/SxKq59FreEI/AAAAAAAAFDU/ZLdupekyoD4/s1600/the-palm-dubai_small.jpg


I'm not in favour as freebies for everyone - but at least some kind of wealth redistribution is a good idea (and not through taxes and handouts) - wealth redistibution through higher wages ...

[slofox]

Wouldn't worry me if the minimum wage increased - my only staff member just resigned so I am NO LONGER AN EMPLOYER! WOOHOO!

I can now go tell the PAYE dudes to fuck off outa my life. And the employer levies dudes. And the etc etc etc you get the idea - I no longer have the burden of compliance on me back..

[MisterD]

The reason why we are in the shit is that the owners and capitalist overlords have taken all their money and built pleasure palaces in places like Dubai

Oh bollocks. The reason we're in the shit is that to many kiwis have:

1) "Invested" in pumping up our property bubble rather than in anything productive.

2) Borrowed money from Japanese housewives to buy chinese-made televisions that they didn't need anyway.

[SPman]

People always scream that raising the minimum wage will cost thousands of jobs - every time! In fact, nothing of the sort happens - check all the statistics on unemployment going back......basic wage rises, employment - stays the same!
Poor business can't afford it?
an example -

Restauraunt Brands owns 208 KFC, Pizza Hut, and Starbucks stores, employing 4,500 workers, most of them minimum wage
For simplicity’s sake and to estimate on the high side, lets say they all do 40 hours a week and all would get the $2 an hour raise. That comes in at $1,900,000 a year. Since wages are tax deductible, the cost to Restauraunt Brands would be $1,300,000
Restaurant Brands made $25.1 million after tax profit in the year to March, up from $19.9 million the previous year. So, an extra $1,300,000 would reduce its profits by 5% while boosting its employees’ pay by 15% and having a dramatic impact on their families’ living standards.
We have a GDP of $200 billion per year, $50,000 for each man, woman, and child. An extra $500 million for the lowest paid workers who are often in the crappiest jobs is nothing. Except to the elitists who are hogging all the wealth for themselves and don’t want to share.

Pay shit - you get shit!

[Banditbandit]

Oh bollocks. The reason we're in the shit is that to many kiwis have:

1) "Invested" in pumping up our property bubble rather than in anything productive.

2) Borrowed money from Japanese housewives to buy chinese-made televisions that they didn't need anyway.

Mate have you bought into their bullshit spin or what ...

The capitalists want us to invest our money in their companies so they can get rich .. and we get the crumbs and be thankful for it ...

I might have a bit of money invested here and there - but I certainly don't drive round in Rolls and Bentleys and have a flash house in Paretai Drive - like the CEOs of the companies I've invested in ... Do they really need to earn a few million dollars a year in income to manage MY money? (My money pays their wages ...)

What sort of crap have you swallowed ????

We invest our hard earned mioney in their companies and they take the cream ... and I have a small amount more milk than I otherwise would ...

[steve_t]

I wonder if they could set a lower minimum wage for small businesses with either a low number of employees or a lower annual turnover/profit.
KFC might easily be able to afford an increase but the guy that owns a bike shop with his 2-5 employees might not.
Also, what happens if wages go up and all the companies like BP and the supermarkets go "Oh, we have to pay more in wages so all our prices are going up"? Suddenly the cost of living goes up. The only winner from this scenario is the tax man

[steve_t]

Mate have you bought into their bullshit spin or what ...

The capitalists want us to invest our money in their companies so they can get rich .. and we get the crumbs and be thankful for it ...

I might have a bit of money invested here and there - but I certainly don't drive round in Rolls and Bentleys and have a flash house in Paretai Drive - like the CEOs of the companies I've invested in ... Do they really need to earn a few million dollars a year in income to manage MY money? (My money pays their wages ...)

What sort of crap have you swallowed ????

We invest our hard earned mioney in their companies and they take the cream ... and I have a small amount more milk than I otherwise would ...

You could invest in your own company instead of someone elses...

[ellipsis]

I wonder if they could set a lower minimum wage for small businesses with either a low number of employees or a lower annual turnover/profit.
KFC might easily be able to afford an increase but the guy that owns a bike shop with his 2-5 employees might not.
Also, what happens if wages go up and all the companies like BP and the supermarkets go "Oh, we have to pay more in wages so all our prices are going up"? Suddenly the cost of living goes up. The only winner from this scenario is the tax man

...the only winner, ever, is the tax man...or those who make enough to afford to avoid the tax man...

[Banditbandit]

You could invest in your own company instead of someone elses...

1 Don't have that much
2 Can't think of anything I could actually do to earn money
3 Life's too short to put up with dickhead workers wanting a rise in the minimum wage ... (Oh .. Duh .. :facepalm:)

But seriously - I'd be crap at it .. and I can't be arsed .. I have a good job which I find satisfying ... and actually has a positive effect on other people's lives ... and I can walk away from it at the end of the day .. or weekend .. and go riding or fishing. Someone else looks after the paperwork crap and money ...

[avgas]

I am guessing many here failed their economics class.
There is a simple thing called supply and demand. If there is excess supply (workers)......putting a minimum wage in there is only going to make things worse.......increasing that figure - you do math.

Google it for diagrams if you wish.

[Banditbandit]

I am guessing many here failed their economics class.
There is a simple thing called supply and demand. If there is excess supply (workers)......putting a minimum wage in there is only going to make things worse.......increasing that figure - you do math.

Google it for diagrams if you wish.

Yeah maybe ... but when we are importing seasonal workers ....

And we live in an international free market - and that includes the labour market ... why do you think our workers are going overseas ???? Mabe it's because they can get more money there? Is there an undersupply of workers out there???

[oneofsix]

I am guessing many here failed their economics class.
There is a simple thing called supply and demand. If there is excess supply (workers)......putting a minimum wage in there is only going to make things worse.......increasing that figure - you do math.

Google it for diagrams if you wish.

economics class, thinly disguised propergander for the capitalist way.
supply and demand never works in the purest way you suggest. Anyhow there is a demand out there for the workers money so increase the supply of that money by increasing their wages, simple :yes: and because there is more money then there can be more jobs created in the supply and service areas. You've solved the problem :yes: pay more :yes:

[Usarka]

If it's such a good idea why not raise the minimum wage to $60/hr?

[Banditbandit]

If it's such a good idea why not raise the minimum wage to $60/hr?

Shit - I don't want John Key to get a pay rise tooo

[superman]

They built these islands in the sea for Gawd's sake .. how much did that cost? And how much does it cost to live there? Just look at it ...

You do know those islands are built for the future tourist sector need for Dubai because they know that their ownly profitable export at the moment is oil, which will soon run out or run out of demand in the near future. They need a way to have an income in the future, and the only way to do that for a clump of sand on the earth is to make it a tourism must.

[steve_t]

economics class, thinly disguised propergander for the capitalist way.
supply and demand never works in the purest way you suggest. Anyhow there is a demand out there for the workers money so increase the supply of that money by increasing their wages, simple :yes: and because there is more money then there can be more jobs created in the supply and service areas. You've solved the problem :yes: pay more :yes:

Hahaha... good one :laugh: Oh, you're not joking...

Increasing wages creates more jobs?? I suspect you avoided high school "capitalist propaganda" classes

[Blackshear]

It seems - and this is an assumption, obviously - a lot of these posts are made by people that would be absolutely buttfucked by a minimum wage of $15 in these current times.
Granted you're living around what you can currently afford, you'd be surprised at what 12.50 an hour DOESN'T buy you. That's $400 a week after tax. If you're single, that makes it even harder. Add the price of food/housing/rates/petrol/rego...

I completely understand the other side of the coin, I was on $13/hr when minimum wage was $9/hr, and I worked my fucking ass off to get that raise by doing several 70 hour weeks and 'smoko but not smoko' jaunts, then a month later it flies up to $12 for every other lazy asshole.

It's just so hard to live on minimum wage currently, even harder if you have a car commute.

[steve_t]

I completely understand the other side of the coin, I was on $13/hr when minimum wage was $9/hr, and I worked my fucking ass off to get that raise by doing several 70 hour weeks and 'smoko but not smoko' jaunts, then a month later it flies up to $12 for every other lazy asshole.



Out of interest, when the min wage went from $9 up to $12, did your pay go up from $13?

[Virago]

the answer to that would be to legislate that all wage and salary earners get a $2 raise.


oh shit panic panic. It might lower profits but not cost jobs. Novel idea, instead of high wages for CEO and takes for share holders put more money in the pockets of the workers who them spend it in NZ and the money goes around instead of increasing overseas debt. :woohoo:...

$2 an hour raise each? No problem...

I pay my employees (on average) around $17 an hour - about the same as I pay myself. So I should stop being such a greedy selfish bastard and give all my money to my employees instead?

I'd appreciate your advice - you certainly have all the answers...

[merv]

If we really do want to catch up with Australia we need a Government with foresight that will bury the dumb arse National Party policies that think we can shrink our way to success. Sorry John Key and Bill English if you look down a spiralling vortex it is a long way down and the less you have the quicker you'll have even less again.

We want growth brothers so everyone prospers. Increase the money go round, don't try and shrink it, coz the shining light countries don't do that, only the basket cases.

The business owners that vote National need customers ya silly f....rs so the more money everyone has the better.

I went to Melbourne for most of last week and seeing the wealth there now compared to here it won't be long and won't be able to afford to visit there with the price of hotels and parking even.

As for asset sales, I'd never sell my high performing assets, best to hang onto them then paying a decent minimum wage wouldn't be a problem.

[Blackshear]

Out of interest, when the min wage went from $9 up to $12, did your pay go up from $13?

No. That's why I left.
Literal blood and sweat for nothing, really.

[Virago]

I'm sick of all the pathetic bleating about Australia.

Some basic facts - New Zealand's national debt (per capita) is roughly ten times that of Australia. Servicing that debt costs us dearly. There is no magic wand to fix that.

A home-owner servicing a $300,000 mortgage is not going to have the same lifestyle choices as his mortgage-free neighbour. 'tain't rocket science...

[Mully]

IA home-owner servicing a $300,000 mortgage is not going to have the same lifestyle choices as his mortgage-free neighbour. 'tain't rocket science...

That's where you're wrong. As a rule, their lifestyles will be the same, but one will be borrowing (more) to achieve that lifestyle.

They shouldn't have the same lifestyle, I grant you.

[mashman]

You do know those islands are built for the future tourist sector need for Dubai because they know that their ownly profitable export at the moment is oil, which will soon run out or run out of demand in the near future. They need a way to have an income in the future, and the only way to do that for a clump of sand on the earth is to make it a tourism must.

You're having a larf.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew43zIaa5wo

[mashman]

Hahaha... good one :laugh: Oh, you're not joking...

Increasing wages creates more jobs?? I suspect you avoided high school "capitalist propaganda" classes

Yet the govt believed it was possible to close the wage gap with Australia :blink:... so that would have been at the expense of jobs?

The post below says it all imho



If we really do want to catch up with Australia we need a Government with foresight that will bury the dumb arse National Party policies that think we can shrink our way to success. Sorry John Key and Bill English if you look down a spiralling vortex it is a long way down and the less you have the quicker you'll have even less again.

We want growth brothers so everyone prospers. Increase the money go round, don't try and shrink it, coz the shining light countries don't do that, only the basket cases.

The business owners that vote National need customers ya silly f....rs so the more money everyone has the better.

I went to Melbourne for most of last week and seeing the wealth there now compared to here it won't be long and won't be able to afford to visit there with the price of hotels and parking even.

As for asset sales, I'd never sell my high performing assets, best to hang onto them then paying a decent minimum wage wouldn't be a problem.

[Ocean1]

If we really do want to catch up with Australia we need a Government with foresight that will bury the dumb arse National Party policies that think we can shrink our way to success.

Yeah.

Only, we've got the biggest motherfucking deficit in history.

I'm all for spending up large, but it's what happens after you've go the money, not before. You can't spend your way out of the sort of borrowing we currently do. Or any other sort for that matter.

It's really really simple: spend less than you earn.

[FJRider]

Yeah.

Only, we've got the biggest motherfucking deficit in history.

I'm all for spending up large, but it's what happens after you've go the money, not before. You can't spend your way out of the sort of borrowing we currently do. Or any other sort for that matter.

It's really really simple: spend less than you earn.

Spending up large is what the Labour goverment wants the "low income" group to do ... and give the "High income" group the chance of a bit of it ...

[98tls]

If we really do want to catch up with Australia we need a Government with foresight that will bury the dumb arse National Party policies.

Blah blah blah,no chance Merv,the Labour governments of the recent past have already sent this country to hell,no doubt you know it your just not quite ready to announce it publicly ie the interweb.Hows the working for families thing going for ya?that in itself was a giant leap into oblivion for this country,What about the "dont discipline your children" fuck up?that seems to be working well:facepalm:the worst is yet to come.What is beyond belief they have now based an election campaign on shit like "we give a fuck about children":facepalm:If your still living "welfare suburb nth of Wellington"you need to move eh,you sound like they do,talking shit and living large on the hard earned of New Zealanders.

[merv]

Lol I thought that might flush some rednecks out. Me, I'm basically a socialist capitalist. I was happy under Labour paying higher taxes and have the money go round bring some back to my pocket. Now the rates I pay to Porirua City, that's another story, dearest in the country I suspect, especially the amount I have to pay.

Haven't done my end of year tax return for this year yet but I know for sure it won't be as good as it used to be.

Go on, help the poor minimum wage worker and stop bleating about it, and grizzle about the obscene salaries of CEO's and obscene Director's fees instead.

Hmmm, ACC and Nick Smith, now what party is he with? How's does it compare to pre 2008? That's right we're all putting our regos on hold under this lovely Government and I've even sold a few vehicles to reduce my costs.

[cowpoos]

Lol I thought that might flush some rednecks out. Me, I'm basically a socialist capitalist. I was happy under Labour paying higher taxes and have the money go round bring some back to my pocket. Now the rates I pay to Porirua City, that's another story, dearest in the country I suspect, especially the amount I have to pay.

Haven't done my end of year tax return for this year yet but I know for sure it won't be as good as it used to be.

Go on, help the poor minimum wage worker and stop bleating about it, and grizzle about the obscene salaries of CEO's and obscene Director's fees instead.

Hmmm, ACC and Nick Smith, now what party is he with? How's does it compare to pre 2008? That's right we're all putting our regos on hold under this lovely Government and I've even sold a few vehicles to reduce my costs.

Socialist capitalist....hmmm....Chinas a Socialist Capitalist regime....minimum wage there would be a little low than hear???

[fuknKIWI]

Is this seditious?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5046618/Happy-workers-boost-production-study

[merv]

Socialist capitalist....hmmm....Chinas a Socialist Capitalist regime....minimum wage there would be a little low than hear???

Keep an eye on China though, how long before they blitz everyone and their wages rise? Remember where Japan came from and earthquake aside is still a wealthy country.

Our problem is that unlike China we are on the way down, not the way up. Keeping wages down here won't help one bit unless we want to became the new slave labour economy as the current ones rocket past us as they become more wealthy.

[avgas]

Yeah maybe ... but when we are importing seasonal workers ....

And we live in an international free market - and that includes the labour market ... why do you think our workers are going overseas ???? Mabe it's because they can get more money there? Is there an undersupply of workers out there???
Import - because we have lazy sods here whom don't work. Its pretty simple if you look at unemployment figures vs seasonal work.....

Workers are going overseas to get better pay. Why do you think they come here? Nowhere has a undersupply of workers (that is a fictitious thought) but some have more jobs than others. Why? Because budgets dictate they hire more people at $X. In NZ where a company has budget (Z) to hire Y x $X = Z and you make X=X+1 simply maths pretty much says that Z stays the same (the company doesn't get a bigger budget) so if X changes so should Y.......Which means less paid hours for workers.

economics class, thinly disguised propergander for the capitalist way.
supply and demand never works in the purest way you suggest. Anyhow there is a demand out there for the workers money so increase the supply of that money by increasing their wages, simple :yes: and because there is more money then there can be more jobs created in the supply and service areas. You've solved the problem :yes: pay more :yes:
Oh go back to your free love lessons. We live in a capitalist world. Even China and Russia from the 1980's has embraced capitalism. Its not the best setup.....but its what we have got - you want something done these days chances are its easier with $.
Supply and Demand 101 never works perfectly. The same as Maths 101 is not perfect and English 101 is not what is spoken. But the principals (not rules) of Supply and Demand work pretty good.
Where does your magical amount of money come from? You can't just pay workers more money. It has to come from somewhere. You can't just pay workers more money purely on the hope that it will come back to you. Money does not work like Karma. While Karma can reward you, throwing money around won't generate you more income.
Oh wait your a socialist. So you believe the government should print more money and inject it into the system to boost the economy so you can pay workers more:facepalm:
That worked so well for Kenya......They had to fix that by trading in a capitalist currency........

[GPXchick]

Try owning your own business, then see if you agree with your own statement.

I do own my business and i think although the govt has good intentions and i want my workers to earn a goo crust. With GST, Kiwi saver and almost everything else rising. $15 IS WHERE THE PAY WILL STAY FOR LONGER.

Both Nat and Labour are disgusting. Don brash a muppet. God help us this next election because , National will sell us off and privitise helathcare and education for the priviledged. Labour gives money to dummies and unskilled hand out types. Don brash probably though the world was going to end the other day. Hone shit show him the closet bridge. The greens will tax you to fart. We can't win.

[oneofsix]

Import - because we have lazy sods here whom don't work. Its pretty simple if you look at unemployment figures vs seasonal work.....

Workers are going overseas to get better pay. Why do you think they come here? Nowhere has a undersupply of workers (that is a fictitious thought) but some have more jobs than others. Why? Because budgets dictate they hire more people at $X. In NZ where a company has budget (Z) to hire Y x $X = Z and you make X=X+1 simply maths pretty much says that Z stays the same (the company doesn't get a bigger budget) so if X changes so should Y.......Which means less paid hours for workers.

Oh go back to your free love lessons. We live in a capitalist world. Even China and Russia from the 1980's has embraced capitalism. Its not the best setup.....but its what we have got - you want something done these days chances are its easier with $.
Supply and Demand 101 never works perfectly. The same as Maths 101 is not perfect and English 101 is not what is spoken. But the principals (not rules) of Supply and Demand work pretty good.
Where does your magical amount of money come from? You can't just pay workers more money. It has to come from somewhere. You can't just pay workers more money purely on the hope that it will come back to you. Money does not work like Karma. While Karma can reward you, throwing money around won't generate you more income.
Oh wait your a socialist. So you believe the government should print more money and inject it into the system to boost the economy so you can pay workers more:facepalm:
That worked so well for Kenya......They had to fix that by trading in a capitalist currency........

whilst you might live with nose up the capitalist arse don't try to guess what I am, it just makes you more of a fail than you already are.
you statement, "So you believe the government should print more money and inject it into the system to boost the economy so you can pay workers more" is actually the capitalist system except you forgot that the government has to pay interest on that money even though it has no real value.

[jaffaonajappa]

Our problem is that unlike China we are on the way down, not the way up. Keeping wages down here won't help one bit unless we want to became the new slave labour economy as the current ones rocket past us as they become more wealthy.


Exactly - !!!!!!

[Banditbandit]

You do know those islands are built for the future tourist sector need for Dubai because they know that their ownly profitable export at the moment is oil, which will soon run out or run out of demand in the near future. They need a way to have an income in the future, and the only way to do that for a clump of sand on the earth is to make it a tourism must.

Of course trhey have not been built for the people who live in Dubai ... Such Xanadus are built for the RICH tourists who can afford to spend their money in such pleasure domes - people like you and me have no chance of affording to live in these places, or be a tourist in these places.

Dod you loo at the video mashman psoted/ A trillion dollars in building projects? And that's just what is currently being built. How much money
have completed projects sucked up aleady!!! For a pleasuere Dome - fuck, that's a huge amount of world money tied up in one small patch of sand and mud (and an-made islands) .. no wonder the rest of us are short of money ..

Whatever the motivation for building these place the RICH are spending their money there, and not recirculating what they spend in these ultimate pleasure palaces in their own countries. I'm not really blaming Dubai .. BUT such pleasure palaces are sucking up the money supply that would otherwise circulate to people like you and me!!! These are the ultimate expression of why trickle-down theory fails.

[jaffaonajappa]

Of course trhey have not been built for the people who live in Dubai ... Such Xanadus are built for the RICH tourists who can afford to spend their money in such pleasure domes - people like you and me have no chance of affording to live in these places, or be a tourist in these places.

Dod you loo at the video mashman psoted/ A trillion dollars in building projects? For a pleasuere Dome - fuck, that's a huge amount of world money tied up in one small patch of sand and mud (and an-made islands) .. no wonder the rest of us are short of money ..

Whatever the motivation for building these place the RICH are spending their money there, and not recirculating what they spend in these ultimate pleasure palaces in their own countries. I'm not really blaming Dubai .. BUT such pleasure palaces are sucking up the money supply that would otherwise circulate to people like you and me!!! These are the ultimate expression of why trickle-down theory fails.

Errr. Have you even been there?
I have three close family members that made Large money within short 12 month stints over there, IS/T and Design. They bought the money back here and upgraded virtually everything they owned - including their house in one instance. Kinda seems like the trickle down theory works ok.

[superman]

Of course trhey have not been built for the people who live in Dubai ... Such Xanadus are built for the RICH tourists who can afford to spend their money in such pleasure domes - people like you and me have no chance of affording to live in these places, or be a tourist in these places.

Dod you loo at the video mashman psoted/ A trillion dollars in building projects? For a pleasuere Dome - fuck, that's a huge amount of world money tied up in one small patch of sand and mud (and an-made islands) .. no wonder the rest of us are short of money ..

Whatever the motivation for building these place the RICH are spending their money there, and not recirculating what they spend in these ultimate pleasure palaces in their own countries. I'm not really blaming Dubai .. BUT such pleasure palaces are sucking up the money supply that would otherwise circulate to people like you and me!!! These are the ultimate expression of why trickle-down theory fails.

So the tourism industry is bad because only popular tourist destinations get money in this sector, while the countries where the tourists are from suffer? It's a wonder the NZ government even allow us out of the country!! :facepalm:

[Banditbandit]

whilst you might live with nose up the capitalist arse don't try to guess what I am, it just makes you more of a fail than you already are.
you statement, "So you believe the government should print more money and inject it into the system to boost the economy so you can pay workers more" is actually the capitalist system except you forgot that the government has to pay interest on that money even though it has no real value.

Hey - hang about .. pay interest on money that has no real value? What kind of a fucked system are we actually looking at? (A pretty fucked one, when you get down to it)

[avgas]

whilst you might live with nose up the capitalist arse don't try to guess what I am, it just makes you more of a fail than you already are.
you statement, "So you believe the government should print more money and inject it into the system to boost the economy so you can pay workers more" is actually the capitalist system except you forgot that the government has to pay interest on that money even though it has no real value.
Wasn't a guess. However I figured someone anti capitalist stuff is socialist (or communist?)..........I am happy to be proven wrong however. But your will have to do that.
And that statement was a negative one. I had no intention of suggesting it as an actual course of action.
I am not really 100% capitalist. To be honest I don't really follow any of those mantras as I think the government/politics based system is actually broken. So most of those terms don't really fit any more.
When you think about it now days an economist and an anarchist have a lot in common. Likewise Socialist policy resembles Capitalist ones (ACC anyone).....

But I am still yet to see how a company whom pays bottom dollar is going to willingly pay more for the same numbers of workers? They pay for the work not the workers. So the work done will expected to be the same per $
This means workers will get the chop and the ones that do get the rise will have to work harder to keep their job. Seen it before, and will see it again.

[oneofsix]

Wasn't a guess. However I figured someone anti capitalist stuff is socialist (or communist?)..........I am happy to be proven wrong however. But your will have to do that.
And that statement was a negative one. I had no intention of suggesting it as an actual course of action.
I am not really 100% capitalist. To be honest I don't really follow any of those mantras as I think the government/politics based system is actually broken. So most of those terms don't really fit any more.
When you think about it now days an economist and an anarchist have a lot in common. Likewise Socialist policy resembles Capitalist ones (ACC anyone).....

But I am still yet to see how a company whom pays bottom dollar is going to willingly pay more for the same numbers of workers? They pay for the work not the workers. So the work done will expected to be the same per $
This means workers will get the chop and the ones that do get the rise will have to work harder to keep their job. Seen it before, and will see it again.

you so funny. Course it was a guess. My actual position is closer to yours than you realise however I have been around long enough to have seen this same argument time and time again and the job loses don't happen due to minimum wage going up. The system is broken but it isn't the government's system.
Still why worry it all ends on October 21 or is that 22 or maybe even Dec 12 2012 :drinkup:

[merv]

By the way, and I asked this a while ago and got no answer, does anyone know where our ace capitalist Finn got to? I miss his comments I must say and he hasn't posted since October 2010.

[JimO]

By the way, and I asked this a while ago and got no answer, does anyone know where our ace capitalist Finn got to? I miss his comments I must say and he hasn't posted since October 2010.

he went to finn land

[SPman]

I'm sick of all the pathetic bleating about Australia.

Some basic facts - New Zealand's national debt (per capita) is roughly ten times that of Australia. Servicing that debt costs us dearly. There is no magic wand to fix that.
.
We only spent 1.22% of GDP in public debt-servicing in 2010 - not particularly high by world standards.
The killer in NZ is Private debt!

Raising incomes does, however impact on service sectors - anything involving paying people to do the job, invariably means higher prices. Here, in WA, costs for anything with local labour content is a lot higher than NZ - but then - the wages are even higher still, so............

the Labour governments of the recent past have already sent this country to hellyou people really do live in a little, self-contained bubble, don't you, but, feed the populace what you want them to hear and pander to their prejudices, and they'll do and say anything......the US is a good example.....they've managed to convince most of those who are being royally shafted, that, not only is it great and "the American Way", but, we'll keep on shafting you, convincing you that things like Medicare are "communist plots", and you give us everything you have, then plead to be screwed some more!
Yes, Labour could have done more, but they did a damn sight more for the "average wage earner" than the Nats did under Ruth Richardson's "guidance" in the '90's....

[Camshaft]

How long has mr superman been around? in an ideal world, this would indeed be the case - sadly, it is notable by the exception, rather than the rule....most bosses wouldn't know how to organise a shit in a dunny, let alone recognise and reward workers who pull well above their weight.

sooo very very true, thats why after 3 years of working a bullshit job after high skool i got my ass to university to get a bit of paper that licences me to print money!!!

[Virago]

sooo very very true, thats why after 3 years of working a bullshit job after high skool i got my ass to university to get a bit of paper that licences me to print money!!!

Is that all it takes? Let us know how it works out...

[Camshaft]

Is that all it takes? Let us know how it works out...

haha did you do a ba lol
i bet your dissapointed then.

[reofix]

But i employ 25 people...heres the real oil... If the govt makes it to hard for me... my staff will simply be made redundant and fetch up on the dole .. i will waltz on with a new structure that reflects the cost of labour ... so less staff... if the minimum rate was $50/hr ... We would all be healthy ,wealthy and wise !!! yeah right ... god bless the labour party

[Banditbandit]

Sometime this year, we taxpayers may again receive another 'Economic Stimulus' payment.

This is indeed a very exciting program, and I'll explain it by using a Q & A format:

Q. What is an 'Economic Stimulus' payment ?

A. It is money that the government will give to taxpayers.

Q.. Where will the government get this money ?

A. From taxpayers.

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money ?

A. Only a smidgen of it..

Q. What is the purpose of this payment ?

A. The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.


Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?

A. Shut up.


Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the NZ Economy by spending your stimulus cheque wisely:

If you spend the stimulus money at the Warehouse the money will go to China or Sri Lanka .

If you spend it on petrol, your money will go to the Arabs.


If you purchase a computer, it will go to India , Taiwan or China ..

If you purchase fruit and vegetables, it will go to Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala & The Philipines.

If you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea .

If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan .

If you pay your credit cards off, or buy stock, it will go to management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.

Instead, keep the money in NZ by:

1) Spending it at garage sales..

2) Going to the Football

3) Spending it on prostitutes or

4) Beer or

5) Tattoos.

(These are the only genuine New Zealand businesses still operating in NZ )

Conclusion:

Go to a football game with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a garage-sale and drink beer all day !

No need to thank me, I'm just glad I could be of help.

[oldrider]

I have been self-employed for over 25 years. I have been an employer in two businesses.

I have never paid minimum wages - always well above. (Except to myself of course - I've always been well under minimum wage...:angry:) I have always felt I got value for the money I paid. BUT. You have to select your staff carefully.

Like they say, pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Employment is between the employer and the employee, what's it got to do with the bloody government FFS?

They can't even run their own affairs without having the audacity to run everyone else's!

Go tell it on the gummint ... yeah that'll fix it ... every time! :brick:

Less government is what we need, not more of it! :facepalm:

[malfunconz]

15 bucks an hour .... labour always users simplistic bribes for the under masses .... there will be more you can bet on it . Buy into it or not : higher wages will be reflected in higher costs .... end of story .

[slofox]

Employment is between the employer and the employee, what's it got to do with the bloody government FFS?



Damn right. Couldn't agree more.

[jaffaonajappa]

Damn right. Couldn't agree more.

So Medical care is an issue between the person needing medical attention, and the Insurer?

[avgas]

So Medical care is an issue between the person needing medical attention, and the Insurer?
huh.... what part of that is the government? I am confused....

[phill-k]

Labour are the biggest idiots in the world. You can see them after the "dumb" vote here, trying to gain votes from low skilled workers who would instantly benefit with a 15% increase in wages due in no part to their skill/hard work.

The thought of my own job increasing $2 per hour seems ridiculous, $13 seems very nice for all I have to do and it seems overkill to increase it by so much.
There goes even the thought of voting for them! :facepalm:

I'd say you deserve your $13 to mate, I personally wouldn't get up to pee for that sort of money.

[jaffaonajappa]

huh.... what part of that is the government? I am confused....

The part? A government intervenes and ensures some Minimum level of care provided regardless of wealth.

[phill-k]

Look for another job, if you prove to your boss you are working above your wage they will boost your pay especially if you can absolutely prove you are of a much higher value compared to other minimum wage earners.

If a pay rise isn't affordable then why force it upon business owners, certain jobs are not worth minimum wage whatsoever. The minimum wage should in no way be sustainable, it should make people want to reach a higher level within their careers, make them want to continue education relevant to their career path etc, etc. If you cannot afford to live on what you earn you can always go to WINZ and ask for a food grant until you've managed to get yourself an increase. No reason to burden business owners rather than burden the low skilled workers.

Don't promote laziness!

I own my own business and you are the type of person that needs the protection of the state, everyone who lives in NZ deserves to be able to live a respectable life, some unfortunately can't or don't have the ability to earn much more than the minimum wage but they do deserve to be protected from the unscrupulous employer and there are many out there. At present NZ is under attack by some washed out 70yr old has-beans whose policies have already proved that they destroy the fabric of a caring NZ but these people pursue their agendas because they don't like to share there good fortune NZ has provided them.

[avgas]

The part? A government intervenes and ensures some Minimum level of care provided regardless of wealth.
Do they? Or is that the perception they give you.

Lots of people out there living in street not wanting anything from the Government.

But I am still confused how does health-care = $15 wage = Government?

[jaffaonajappa]

Do they? Or is that the perception they give you.

Lots of people out there living in street not wanting anything from the Government.

But I am still confused how does health-care = $15 wage = Government?

Who was it mentioned the Governement should have no part in the Employer-Employee deal?
The medical = wages = government example was given as an example of there needing to be some minimum / basics, for those needing them. Not sompletely user pays, but not a socialist sytem either. Something in between? Perhaps...a Humane capitalism system? Kinda like what we enjoy now? (And yeah - theres going to be some unhappy peeps commenting on that one im guessing :gob:)

[Usarka]

15 bucks an hour .... labour always users simplistic bribes for the under masses .... there will be more you can bet on it . Buy into it or not : higher wages will be reflected in higher costs .... end of story .

Funny how most people forget the big buy-off that Labour pulled to win their last term.

[phill-k]

Funny how most people forget the big buy-off that Labour pulled to win their last term.

Better than national destroying ACC by opening up the best parts to their Aussie cronies and then selling our fundamental assets and insuring that all their profits are sent overseas thus adding to our overseas debt, remember telecom, within 9 years the owners full investment was repaid overseas and now Telecom export money annually to their owners, if NZ had retained ownership our Ultrafast broadband would not be costing us anything. You think labour cook the roost?

[dmc]

Its one arguement that always makes me laugh, those on minimum wage that moan about how it should be higher generally aren't doing anything to improve their position so they will be worth paying more while the rest just get on with it like everyone else, those people tend to either stay in a minimum wage job and don't moan or do something about it. Like most people i started on minimum wage when I left School and worked my way up via training and hard work so why shouldn't others on minimum wage do the same? The arguement that you can't have a family and house on minimum wage doesn't fly as having kids and a house aren't a right they are something you have to work for, I know plenty of people who have had to make major concessions to have them and don't expect to get more just because others get more than them because at the end of the day they choose to have a family knowing how much it would cost.
Like most of us I bet your parents had stuff all when you were growing up and Dad probably worked 60+hr a week like everyone else until they got a better job that paid more but now it seems some people think the world "owes" them and should make 45k and work 40hrs a week or they won't get out of bed.

If your on minimum wage and trying to get a better job good on you, like most of us it takes time but you can get there, but for those that expect to get paid what they think they are worth before they have proven it expect to be either unemployed or stuck in a shit job as no one is "owed" anything and you have to make it happen yourself.

I'm fully expecting flaming but also expect most on here will agree as they have earned everything they have. :msn-wink:

[mashman]

Its one arguement that always makes me laugh, those on minimum wage that moan about how it should be higher generally aren't doing anything to improve their position so they will be worth paying more while the rest just get on with it like everyone else, those people tend to either stay in a minimum wage job and don't moan or do something about it. Like most people i started on minimum wage when I left School and worked my way up via training and hard work so why shouldn't others on minimum wage do the same? The arguement that you can't have a family and house on minimum wage doesn't fly as having kids and a house aren't a right they are something you have to work for, I know plenty of people who have had to make major concessions to have them and don't expect to get more just because others get more than them because at the end of the day they choose to have a family knowing how much it would cost.
Like most of us I bet your parents had stuff all when you were growing up and Dad probably worked 60+hr a week like everyone else until they got a better job that paid more but now it seems some people think the world "owes" them and should make 45k and work 40hrs a week or they won't get out of bed.

If your on minimum wage and trying to get a better job good on you, like most of us it takes time but you can get there, but for those that expect to get paid what they think they are worth before they have proven it expect to be either unemployed or stuck in a shit job as no one is "owed" anything and you have to make it happen yourself.

I'm fully expecting flaming but also expect most on here will agree as they have earned everything they have.


Useless bastards eh. They lack ambition. They lack drive. You may as well shoot them if they're not going to be financially productive members of society. We can always import,,, cheaper labour.

All I'd say in their defence is that in my parents day... the cost of a pint was much cheaper in relation to earnings, as was food, electricity, gas (milk free at school, free school dinners for "poor" kids :yes:). Trains, Buses, Ferries etc... used to cost cents. A 4 bedroom house in the burbs cost $30,000. A new car cost $8000. Rent was $45 per week. Acid was still the same price :blink:. Fuel was abundant and very affordable... and no doubt the list goes on.......

How dare they try to be young and try to have a life at the same time :shifty:... it does seem expensive to be young these days. :bleh:

[jaffaonajappa]

Like most of us I bet your parents had stuff all when you were growing up and Dad probably worked 60+hr a week like everyone else until they got a better job that paid more but now it seems some people think the world "owes" them and should make 45k and work 40hrs a week or they won't get out of bed.


Thats odd.
My parents were firmly Working class. Never worked more than 40 hrs a week. And bought houses, holidays, had kids. etc. The cost of living was a lot less relative to the 'average' wage. Not sure what the minimum wage was back then - but dont recall people struggling to afford groceries like I keep hearing about these days.

And.
I know a crap load of young people now, almost brain dead clueless farking morons....but some have potential I guess. Maybe. Theyre earning 50k+ and working less than 40 hr weeks. AND. They plead poverty, arggghhh!

And. Im not even going to mention cops or politicians.

[dmc]

Well I don't know your position but being mid 30's now my parents and most of my friends when I was growing up generally all worked their asses off to make ends meet and most worked more then 40hrs, I've had this conversation with them before and when you compared what they earnt to what houses cost etc it was all relative (in CHCH anyway), yes houses were cheaper but then they earnt F all. Not everything was milk and honey back then as you have to remember they were having to deal with crippling interest rates on their morgages (2x3x now) so even tho houses werent as much its not like they were earning huge amounts of deposable income.
I still stand by what I say in that you have to work your way up and just upping the minimum wage isn't the answer, I can remember very well the times when I was so broke I couldn't work out how to pay the bills but I worked my way up the ladder I didn't rely on minimum wage increases to get were I am.

[ynot slow]

Well $13hr is great if on dole,$15 will buy votes but the dole will increase under labour(course it will)so no difference there,shit only 8 years ago I was on $14hr,but was happy as bonuses were also given,time off granted,perks of job meant the money was ok.

My present job at the interview,the hourly rate was asked of me,but I deferred replying,then later the hours,days of work and rate was outlined,turned out what I was prepared to work for was $2hr less than what was offered.I am like many others who think at minimum of $13ph,the rate you're on say at $18ph is ok,but close the gap on minimum to $3ph(difference between $13 and $15)means many others will want an increase,me included,afterall paying a pimply faced git at supercheap/repco/maccas etc $15ph,it seems unfair people with sales,proper retail experience,product knowledge(not cashiers) feel annoyed.

[cowpoos]

peoples lifestyle expectations exceed their earning ability....look at the fricken nations debt!!

nothing to do with wages....your pretty thick if thats your argument.

[Jonno.]

Why stop at $15? Make it $50 per hour and solve all of this country's problems :killingme:

[oneofsix]

Why stop at $15? Make it $50 per hour and solve all of this country's problems :killingme:

:shit: that would make it twice Aussie's (about equal with exchange rates). They might get jealous. Lets make it $25 then they can at least say the exchange rate still makes theirs better.

[yachtie10]

Better than national destroying ACC by opening up the best parts to their Aussie cronies and then selling our fundamental assets and insuring that all their profits are sent overseas thus adding to our overseas debt, remember telecom, within 9 years the owners full investment was repaid overseas and now Telecom export money annually to their owners, if NZ had retained ownership our Ultrafast broadband would not be costing us anything. You think labour cook the roost?

While I think selling telecom was a stupid thing to do it was done in 1987
Who was in government then??? Labour
If your going to be a lefty whiner at least get your facts straight

[oneofsix]

While I think selling telecom was a stupid thing to do it was done in 1987
Who was in government then??? Labour
If your going to be a lefty whiner at least get your facts straight

that would be the Labour driven by those that now make up the core of ACT :yes:

[mashman]

Well I don't know your position but being mid 30's now my parents and most of my friends when I was growing up generally all worked their asses off to make ends meet and most worked more then 40hrs, I've had this conversation with them before and when you compared what they earnt to what houses cost etc it was all relative (in CHCH anyway), yes houses were cheaper but then they earnt F all. Not everything was milk and honey back then as you have to remember they were having to deal with crippling interest rates on their morgages (2x3x now) so even tho houses werent as much its not like they were earning huge amounts of deposable income.
I still stand by what I say in that you have to work your way up and just upping the minimum wage isn't the answer, I can remember very well the times when I was so broke I couldn't work out how to pay the bills but I worked my way up the ladder I didn't rely on minimum wage increases to get were I am.


40's here. And pretty similar to the rest, know broke, seen parents broke, family member fucked by mortgage etc...

BUT... the above is what you and I, and our parents, and thousands of others in a similar situation were prepared to do, to get going again. It could have easily :yes: gone the other way. There are some that don't want to do it the way we did it. But that doesn't mean you leave them poor because you think that their attitude is all wrong (in plenty of cases it will be :yes:), because they won't take themselves further at that present moment in their young lives? The cost of living is rising. Fuck 'em?

I disagree... you can keep that rat race thinking, I don't want it.

[SPman]

$15 an hr!
Fek, I haven't worked for that since 1987! (except when I was on the dole)
It's scary all you folks saying your're getting $11-12-13/hr - there's something seriously wrong, somewhere.
And Key would like to see wages drop! (19 February 2008)

Bugger me, I'm glad I'm out of it.

[Blackshear]

$15 an hr!
Fek, I haven't worked for that since 1987! (except when I was on the dole)
It's scary all you folks saying your're getting $11-12-13/hr - there's something seriously wrong, somewhere.
And Key would like to see wages drop! (19 February 2008)

Bugger me, I'm glad I'm out of it.

Minimum wage is 12.75 if I'm not mistaken.
Just try living on $450 after tax per week :violin:

Let alone with a bike to pay for lol. :shutup:

[The Lone Rider]

Just a novel idea to apply across many employers-

A place I have worked for based it's pay off an education scheme. Admittedly, the company paid for you to do the education (correspondence), but every time you complete a certain number of credits/levels you got a pay rise.

All the correspondence that was offered was related to the job, although sometimes a little indirect to what my particular job was.

Base rate at the place was a little over minimum (or on minimum?) and after 6 months of competent employment, you got a small pay rise. After that, any further pay increases are solely at your own effort to complete and pass the studies.

While the company has to put down a little bit extra for the education (and pay rises down the track), in turn they get a higher skilled employee that can be put to more use. They are also more likely to retain those skilled staff, as the pay given after a bit of study is rarely matched by similar jobs.

As an employee, you get the education. Education is valuable on it's own, but you additionally get nationally credited, plus the pay rises. And being that you are/can be constantly up skilling, your job security becomes better as you become more valuable than the staff who have chosen not to do the study.

It's fairly win win in my eyes.

We should be looking at the dole bludgers and baby factory mothers to save the government money and lower taxes.

There's my buck fiddy

[phill-k]

While I think selling telecom was a stupid thing to do it was done in 1987
Who was in government then??? Labour
If your going to be a lefty whiner at least get your facts straight

Actually u need to get your facts right the people responsible for selling telecom are now those same washed out has beans still bringing up the same ideas that failed then, they are the face of act and those behind the scenes in national. The sale of telecom failed and is universally accepted as being a mistake, why would selling our utility companies be any different. Being in government is not like running a business and should not be treated as such, the bottom line unlike in business should not be the focus or priority. National and John Key have failed to ignite NZ, however Key and his cronies continue to make big money whilst the majority of working NZer's just get by and if you think that's ok well good on you, but I don't.

[steve_t]

Minimum wage is 12.75 if I'm not mistaken.


$13 :innocent:

[yachtie10]

Actually u need to get your facts right the people responsible for selling telecom are now those same washed out has beans still bringing up the same ideas that failed then, they are the face of act and those behind the scenes in national. The sale of telecom failed and is universally accepted as being a mistake, why would selling our utility companies be any different. Being in government is not like running a business and should not be treated as such, the bottom line unlike in business should not be the focus or priority. National and John Key have failed to ignite NZ, however Key and his cronies continue to make big money whilst the majority of working NZer's just get by and if you think that's ok well good on you, but I don't.

Nothing wrong with my facts. I stated clearly that I thought selling telecom was a mistake. I was just replying to your post claiming national sold it. I dont live life with one eye open like some

you said

Better than national destroying ACC by opening up the best parts to their Aussie cronies and then selling our fundamental assets and insuring that all their profits are sent overseas thus adding to our overseas debt, remember telecom, within 9 years the owners full investment was repaid overseas and now Telecom export money annually to their owners, if NZ had retained ownership our Ultrafast broadband would not be costing us anything. You think labour cook the roost?

if you are going to be one eyed and bitch about national at least get you facts straight.
niether party is golden and does everything perfectly

[puddytat]

if you are going to be one eyed and bitch about national at least get you facts straight.
niether party is golden and does everything perfectly

Still amazed anyone votes for either of 'em....we should vote for the OTHERS for a change. What have we got to lose? Most of its been sold or is in the process of being set up to be sold, the longer we fluff around splitting hairs over two centerist parties the more time it gives those with a stake to set up the Dominoes....:yes:
But in saying that...if the minor parties were to go into some kind of coalition to govern, whats the bet that Liarbour &(multi)National would do just wot zee Germans did & form a grand Coalition to keep them in Gravy:shit::yes: