Savings

[The Stranger]

Not so long ago we (as in the general populace of NZ) were told that we were carrying too much debt. We were told that we're not saving enough. Savings are/were needed to fund companies to produce shit to sell overseas etc.
Action (leglislation) has been considered many times to try and curtail this and assist us with what's best for us.

As a spin off, surely Kiwisaver was going to help that position.
Apparently not.

Now we're saving too much. We've reduced household debt, banks have money to loan apparently, but no one's interested. This is apparently going to stifle any recovery.

Economists - they're as useless as geologists!

[Usarka]

A very prominent economist once told me (I'm paraphrasing) that they don't know shit. Trouble is governments take their word as gospel.

Geologists rock.

[Swoop]

Economists - they're as useless as geologists!

Yup. Don't forget weather forecasters either.

Three "professions" where you can get it wrong all day every day and still not be fired.

[oneofsix]

Economists - they're as useless as geologists!

Yup. Don't forget weather forecasters either.

Three "professions" where you can get it wrong all day every day and still not be fired.

Economists are artists and the other two are 'scientists'? :yes:
Anyhow I thought the prostitutes were the only true pros

[avgas]

Interesting.
I was under the impression economists don't like government meddling.......
So really they could just blame the government for meddling and wash their hands from it.

Fact of the matter is saving is still a good thing - kiwi"saver" however wasn't. It was a blank cheque to investment firms.
They didn't have to offer any returns as customers would simply have to dump money with them.

Imagine a customer having to buy whatever you sell. Would be fantastic wouldn't it.

[Usarka]

Anyhow I thought the prostitutes were the only true pros

Yep because at least when you're getting fucked you know what it's going to cost.

[Mully]

But then isn't paying down debt (mortgage) effectively saving anyway?

But then we like property too much, apparently....

[Smifffy]

It was only a few years ago that a few rather prominent economists/financial advisers were advocating the joys of divesting property, investing in shares and renting.

The property bubble was going to burst they claimed and shares could only keep increasing.

The big burst was those who were continually gearing themselves up in property. Strange how these same people are still glibly dispensing advice...

Be interested in some RL examples of people doing exceptionally well, after selling their homes and investing in some so called 'blue chip' shares.

At least rent in Auckland is really cheap now eh?

[pete376403]

It was only a few years ago that a few rather prominent economists/financial advisers were advocating the joys of divesting property, investing in shares and renting.

And I do recall the current leader of the ACT party was one of those advising that "renting good, owning bad"

[Milts]

Economists - they're as useless as geologists!

Don't Geologists do the odd thing like, I dunno:

Pinpoint oil for drilling
Pinpoint metals etc for mining
Teach us about past climates based on chemical compositions of ice and rock drilled from thousands of years ago
Improve our understanding of how different materials will behave under stress by examing their physical structure
Advise in the construction of buildings which don't fall down in an earthquake (imagine if Christchurch had been built entirely by builders and engineers who'd never learned anything from geological studies....)
Etc etc ad infinitum.

[The Stranger]

(imagine if Christchurch had been built entirely by builders and engineers who'd never learned anything from geological studies....)


Imagine if Christchurch was built on a fault line.
Oh wait, it was, who knew? The economists perhaps?

[SPman]

Get ten economists in a room and you get 11 opinions......they're worse than KB posters....

[Gremlin]

Since when did you start believing what the government told you anyway?

It's like a traffic light. They interfere and shit gets worse. :yes:

[p.dath]

Not so long ago we (as in the general populace of NZ) were told that we were carrying too much debt. We were told that we're not saving enough. Savings are/were needed to fund companies to produce shit to sell overseas etc.
Action (leglislation) has been considered many times to try and curtail this and assist us with what's best for us.

As a spin off, surely Kiwisaver was going to help that position.
Apparently not.

Now we're saving too much. We've reduced household debt, banks have money to loan apparently, but no one's interested. This is apparently going to stifle any recovery.

Economists - they're as useless as geologists!

Are you saying this because of depressed domestic spend? If so, there are a lot of reasons why domestic spending might be depressed - earthquake, unemployment up, global recession ...

So people may simply not have as much to spend, or may be worried about spending it - as opposed to choosing to save it. :)

[Swoop]

(imagine if Christchurch had been built entirely by builders and engineers who'd never learned anything from geological studies....)
*chortle*

Yup. The geologists did well there.

[The Stranger]

Are you saying this because of depressed domestic spend? If so, there are a lot of reasons why domestic spending might be depressed - earthquake, unemployment up, global recession ...

So people may simply not have as much to spend, or may be worried about spending it - as opposed to choosing to save it. :)

We are using saving to retire debt, which from a personal perspective is an appropriate response given the "current economic climate" (I love that phrase, get's blamed for everything, I just had to throw it in).

I know that I for one have done just this and for just this reason. Will I have a job tomorrow? Who knows? Now (thanks to debt reduction) it's pretty much who cares?

Still, I find it an irony that debt fueled the recession we now find ourselves in (think America's sub prime mortgage problems). Now the economists are saying the road out of recession is to increase debt and spend up.

[Milts]

*chortle*

Yup. The geologists did well there.

If you compare it to a place without strong engineering (Haiti anyone? How many hundred thousdand dead?) then less than 300 dead after that kind of quake is pretty damn good IMHO.

[Winston001]

It was only a few years ago that a few rather prominent economists/financial advisers were advocating the joys of divesting property, investing in shares and renting.

The property bubble was going to burst they claimed and shares could only keep increasing...


The advice is still sound. The problem is markets don't always act logically in the short term. Over decades, property rises = shares decline, then the reverse happens. Google the investment clock.

Again, over decades shares (business) provides a better return than property. Why? Because business uses land and to be profitable must make more money than simply owning the land. Otherwise no factories would be built, we'd all just own land and empty buildings hoping some other guy will eventually buy it from us at a profit.

[Winston001]

Still, I find it an irony that debt fueled the recession we now find ourselves in (think America's sub prime mortgage problems). Now the economists are saying the road out of recession is to increase debt and spend up.

Actually the GFC was fuelled primarily by an excess of capital around the world. Mainly stemming from Chinese, Japanese, and Middle Eastern investors who had new-found wealth which they needed to invest.

The money poured in faster than financiers could lend it so they lowered their security limits, dropped interest rates, and made 100% loans. The result was it became really easy to borrow money in the wealthy nations so we bid up more for houses because the banks just kept saying yes.

Our fault as much as the banks.

As for moving to spending - no economy can survive if its members do not buy anything. The difficulty is to encourage productive spending, not empty consumption. YMMV :D

[Swoop]

If you compare it to a place without strong engineering...
You are comparing engineers with geologists.
Not really comparing apples with apples, eh?

[The Stranger]

If you compare it to a place without strong engineering (Haiti anyone? How many hundred thousdand dead?) then less than 300 dead after that kind of quake is pretty damn good IMHO.

So I guess our geologists are better than Japanese geologists too.

[Smifffy]

So I guess our geologists are better than Japanese geologists too.

Fuckin A! We kiwi number 1! we have RWC! We have Mr Key San! Smile and Wave! We no have wave like Japan. We have wave like Key San smile. Japan wave fuck you loooong time. Key wave fuck you better.

[oneofsix]

So I guess our geologists are better than Japanese geologists too.

this guys stranger than fiction.
Geologists tell you what type of ground you have at best, its up to the engineers to work out how and what to build on it so it will stay up.

[The Stranger]

this guys stranger than fiction.
Geologists tell you what type of ground you have at best, its up to the engineers to work out how and what to build on it so it will stay up.

Nah, that's the economist's job.
Haiti, bad economists, no money, lots dead.
NZ, good economists, more money, lots live.
Simple really.

[Clockwork]

I've heard that if you lay all the world's Economists end to end....
the still wouldn't reach a conclusion.

Anyway, God gave gave the world Economists to make the Meterologists look good.




just sayin.