New Moto3 Honda

[richban]

Well it makes good power and is supposed to be faster than the standard 2 stroke RS125 but man it sounds bad. I can't imagine watching Motogp with 40 of these things boping around. Maybe if they had them reving to 16 they might not sound so bad. Or Maybe the proper GP bikes might have megas or something. God I hope so.

At least it will be interesting to see the development of a serous 4 stroke single engine. It is clear it ant no dirt bike engine with 190hp per litre.


239982239983


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN02zPVoPB4&feature=player_embedded

[ducatilover]

That is seriously, seriously cool. You're right though, sounds disgusting.

[hmurphy]

It literally sounds exactly like your bucket Rich. I reckon they are wicked. I wanna ride one. I'm looking forward to Moto3

[richban]

It literally sounds exactly like your bucket Rich.

I know. Thats the problem, it sounds like a bucket. I was expecting something a little more angry. Still love that engine. Need to find some close up pic's of that thing.

[Ivan]

we are hearing it through a computer tho not in person, bet it sounds sick in real life

[ac3_snow]

Bring back the 2 strokes!!!
(I mean keep the 2 strokes)

[crazy man]

they should make all the buckets four strokes to!

[Chancebmx25]

Bring back the 2 strokes!!!
(I mean keep the 2 strokes)

yerrrr!!!!!!

[Bert]

they should make all the buckets four strokes to!

Just cause you (&family) have a fetish for collecting 4 strokes...
You know you really love the two strokers >>>> when's the GT going to make at comeback ??

[crazy man]

Just cause you (&family) have a fetish for collecting 4 strokes...
You know you really love the two strokers >>>> when's the GT going to make at comeback ??l have more two smokers than four st's the gt would be to fast for you lot! so it would be unfair if l bought it out

[Bert]

l have more two smokers than four st's the gt would be to fast for you lot! so it would be unfair if l bought it out

I'm going to have to pop around again and twist your arm to get it out there again.. it would be great seeing a few big dollar FXRs being eaten up by a stinky 2stoker:innocent:

[crazy man]

how could you spend dollars on a FXR lol

[crazy man]

last time l used the gt was at foxton. it when like a rocket then went slow then fast and slow again the hole race. the coil clap out on it after that and been in my shed doing nothing for a long time

[kel]

FASTER THAN A GP 2 STROKE I THINK NOT! Its 2% faster than an off the shelf Honda RS125 and if you break it down 20% less power than the works Aprilia RSA GP bike i.e. the lap records will be held by the Aprilia RSA for years to come. Pure race bikes have been traded for something that will translate into sales of road bikes :angry:

Shuhei Nakamoto “We have been testing at Motegi and Sugo and if you compare the lap time with a standard RS125, the percentage is 1.5 to two per cent faster with the Moto3 bike.

"This comparison is (not?) against an Aprilia works 125GP machine, so our machine is competitive with an RS kit-bike but not competitive with an Aprilia works bike.
Fifty horsepower will be a little difficult to achieve. With a single cylinder engine, to use higher revs the power is up but at the same time friction. But there is no need to run 16,000 rpm. I think 14,000rpm is a more reasonable level.
Horsepower will probably be around 45 or something like this. But with a super, super tune-up then fifty horsepower is achievable but at the same time engine life is short and the costs go up. Moto3 is for low cost racing and if the bikes can be competitive this is the best way.”

Frits Overmars Mer 29 Déc "350 cc extra was not enough to make a Honda-600 as fast as an Aprilia-250. So what can you expect from a Honda-250? Just a lot of noise...."
I think Frits is being kind, I wonder what Jan Thiel would have to say.

[jaffaonajappa]

Damnnnnn nice looking bike.
Even tho its a Honda rofl....reminds me of how hot the RC30 was when it was released. Yumm.

Now. Are they having an age restriction on the riders age this year, for Moto3?

[cotswold]

they should make all the buckets four strokes to!

Is that because they are easier to ride?

[crazy man]

FASTER THAN A GP 2 STROKE I THINK NOT! Its 2% faster than an off the shelf Honda RS125 and if you break it down 20% less power than the works Aprilia RSA GP bike i.e. the lap records will be held by the Aprilia RSA for years to come. Pure race bikes have been traded for something that will translate into sales of road bikes :angry:

Shuhei Nakamoto “We have been testing at Motegi and Sugo and if you compare the lap time with a standard RS125, the percentage is 1.5 to two per cent faster with the Moto3 bike.

"This comparison is (not?) against an Aprilia works 125GP machine, so our machine is competitive with an RS kit-bike but not competitive with an Aprilia works bike.
Fifty horsepower will be a little difficult to achieve. With a single cylinder engine, to use higher revs the power is up but at the same time friction. But there is no need to run 16,000 rpm. I think 14,000rpm is a more reasonable level.
Horsepower will probably be around 45 or something like this. But with a super, super tune-up then fifty horsepower is achievable but at the same time engine life is short and the costs go up. Moto3 is for low cost racing and if the bikes can be competitive this is the best way.”

Frits Overmars Mer 29 Déc "350 cc extra was not enough to make a Honda-600 as fast as an Aprilia-250. So what can you expect from a Honda-250? Just a lot of noise...."
I think Frits is being kind, I wonder what Jan Thiel would have to say.the stock rs 125 in the book says 43 hp this 250 says 47 stock so whats a works one going to be ? dont know .the four stroke will also have a lot more torque as well

[crazy man]

Is that because they are easier to ride?sound better

[Buckets4Me]

the four stroke will also have a lot more talk as well

yep the hype is right up there :facepalm:

so twice the cc and add valves and a cam (more things to brake and fix)
hope they have to rebuild them half as often :facepalm:
the cost is going to be bigger with a 4 stroke as they have to replace more things
so how dose this reduce the cost ?????

[Gigglebutton]

They may end up with 15 gears like the 0ld 50cc Gp bikes to get the lap times down. They sound shit, bring back the two stroker's :angry:

[crazy man]

yep the hype is right up there :facepalm:

so twice the cc and add valves and a cam (more things to brake and fix)
hope they have to rebuild them half as often :facepalm:
the cost is going to be bigger with a 4 stroke as they have to replace more things
so how dose this reduce the cost ?????if they came to new zealand l would have a detune kit made at around 30 hp promply go still very well and if its the same for everyone it will be good racing! the thing is there are guys racing rs125spending over 40k for engines spending over 100k on bikes back up stuff small trucks just to go racing in the 125 class!10 years ago you were lucky to spend 5k on a rs.. bet you this same sort of crap is happing in buckets now!

[Henk]

Four strokes in MotoGP and supporting classes have nothng to do with reliability or cost, it's all about politics and the amount of cash poured into four stroke development over the last decade or so by the major manufacturers.
All the cost saving rules that have been introduced are a band aid on a bad decision as far as I can see to try and bolster the flagging grid numbers caused by the expense of playing in this paddock.
I'm convinced that if things don't change superbikes will be the premier class in 5 years time based solely on the number of bikes and the quality of racing on offer, over the past few years I've probably enjoyed watching 125s and 250s more than MotoGP for the simple reason that when you can throw a blanket over the first five bikes it's much more entertaining than a procession and yes I'll admit there have been a couple of exceptions. Remember from the point of view of clowns like us it's about racing, from the perspective of the guys running and competeing in the sport it's about business and marketing opportunities.
I'd love to see GPs go back to a simple capacity restriction and do what you like outside of that but I know it's not going to happen.

[TZ350]

the thing is there are guys racing rs125spending over 40k for engines spending over 100k on bikes back up stuff small trucks just to go racing in the 125 class!10 years ago you were lucky to spend 5k on a rs.. bet you this same sort of crap is happing in buckets now!

Not sure about that, do you know of someone spending realy big money instead of their own effort on a Bucket? please tell.

It would be interesting to know where the money is being spent, a rod and piston kit, a rebore, secondhand set of RS slicks, maybe some dyno time, a shock maybe, a popup tent for the pits and an old van, usually shared with mates. Where is the big money, I haven't seen it.

One thing I am sure about though, is that there are a few people investing good time and skill (ac3-snow and Speedpro for instance) on developing some very interesting Buckets, mostly 2-strokers but there is one or two Fast Fours being put together too.

Buckets is still like old time small class GP racing where a few good ideas and a bit of elbow grease can take you a long way.

[crazy man]

Not sure about that, do you know of someone spending realy big money on a Bucket? please tell.

One thing I am sure about though, is that there are a few people investing time and skill (AC3-snow and Speedpro for instance) on developing some very interesting Buckets, mostly 2-strokers but there is one or two Fast Fours being put together too.

Buckets is still like old time small class GP racing where a few good ideas and a bit of elbow grease can take you a long way.l sore a thread here once said some guys had spent 6 k on there bike! in my day a very pricey bike would have been 1k mosty 400-500 bucks

[cotswold]

sound better

Nothing sounds better than a full grid of grand prix 50's getting off the start line, but that could be me showing my age.
Did you hear that 4 cylinder 125 yamaha 2t at the pukie classic meet a couple of years back........................the only thing close that is not a 2t was the norton rotary race bike

[TZ350]

l sore a thread here once said some guys had spent 6 k on there bike!

Please post a link.


in my day a very pricey bike would have been 1k mosty 400-500 bucks

We paid $150-$350 on average for our bikes, pocket money on development and some elbow grease.

Your might be right though, as I guess, even pocket money adds up over a few years.

[crazy man]

Nothing sounds better than a full grid of grand prix 50's getting off the start line, but that could be me showing my age.
Did you hear that 4 cylinder 125 yamaha 2t at the pukie classic meet a couple of years back........................the only thing close that is not a 2t was the norton rotary race bikedid you here the mv's out there 5-7 years ago !!

[crazy man]

Please post a link.



We paid $150-$350 on average for our bikes, pocket money on development and some elbow grease.

Your might be right though, as I guess, even pocket money adds up over a few years.l dont have the time to look it up its just what people were saying in here. to me bucket racing is all about doing the work yourself not paying somone to do it

[richban]

Nothing sounds better than a full grid of grand prix 50's getting off the start line, but that could be me showing my age.
Did you hear that 4 cylinder 125 yamaha 2t at the pukie classic meet a couple of years back........................the only thing close that is not a 2t was the norton rotary race bike

The Guzzi V8 was a nice noise. And The MV's always bring a smile. After you clear the blood out of your ears that is.

[TZ350]

to me bucket racing is all about doing the work yourself not paying somone to do it

I wholy aggree, and if you want to see a crew doing the work for themselves check the Team ESE thread, not a lot of obvious money being spent there. But I think the pocket money does add up over the years.

I don't know of anyone who is a true check book racer, but it could happen I suppose if Buckets gets any more popular.

[jasonu]

The chassis will make a great bucket racer in 15 years or so when they filter down as the older RS and TZ 125's have

[kel]

the stock rs 125 in the book says 43 hp this 250 says 47 stock so whats a works one going to be ? dont know .the four stroke will also have a lot more torque as well

The Aprilia RSA125 has been making 54hp for years. That 250 figure is ah just a little bit wrong, the KR1's made more than that in 88. edit; oh you mean the 4 stroke 250
Four stroke are are great for spread of power but they'll never be real race bikes only 2 strokes fall into this category end of story.

[kel]

It would be interesting to know where the money is being spent, a rod and piston kit, a rebore, secondhand set of RS slicks, maybe some dyno time, a shock maybe, a popup tent for the pits and an old van, usually shared with mates. Where is the big money, I haven't seen it.

Dont add it up my friend those little costs just keep mounting up, actually I should say dont let the wife add it up.

[gatch]

Nothing sounds better than a full grid of grand prix 50's getting off the start line, but that could be me showing my age.
Did you hear that 4 cylinder 125 yamaha 2t at the pukie classic meet a couple of years back........................the only thing close that is not a 2t was the norton rotary race bike

2010 classic festival.

That thing is crazy. 9 gears and all. Hugh Anderson giving it the berries. :yes:

[gav]

The Aprilia RSA125 has been making 54hp for years. That 250 figure is ah just a little bit wrong, the KR1's made more than that in 88.
Four stroke are are great for spread of power but they'll never be real race bikes only 2 strokes fall into this category end of story.
Real race bikes? Isnt GP racing just returning to its roots? You do know that GP racing started with four strokes, right? These pesky two strokes were just a flash in the pan, just another fad that was never gonna last, aye ... :innocent:

[cotswold]

Dont add it up my friend those little costs just keep mounting up, actually I should say dont let the wife add it up.

Amen to that, if a build takes a year of so with the odd 100 bucks here and there it can soon eat up that 1st thousand bucks plus some people do not have ready access to machine shops and welders, yup been there and doing that. I should have thrown a Loncin in and just turned up.

[Buckets4Me]

l sore a thread here once said some guys had spent 6 k on there bike! in my day a very pricey bike would have been 1k mosty 400-500 bucks

2k now is about the benchmark for a bucket

if you think it's a bit steap try racing pushbikes :facepalm: you could easily splash out 10k+ for a starter

[jasonu]

l sore a thread here once said some guys had spent 6 k on there bike! in my day a very pricey bike would have been 1k mosty 400-500 bucks

A while ago I estimated the cost of hard parts and my labor to be 5-6K. But I was not paying myself. I am sure there are more than several other builders that would fall into the same catagory if you counted the hours spent at say $40 per hour.

[crazy man]

l think say you bought a rg 150 motor say 500 bucks had it sleaved to a 100 new inignition system piston and rod if you payed someone to do this work what do you think 1500 bucks? + 500 for motor 2k.. old rolling rs 125 with no motor 1000-1200? spear set of rims 500-600 bucks? some one to make a 2 stroke exhaust 400 bucks?
pay someone to put the engine in 500-700 ? if you want some new fairing 600 bucks. thats over 5k if you payed someone for a winning bike with a good rider what do you think. and still would only look like a 1500 bucket lol

[Bert]

l think say you bought a rg 150 motor say 500 bucks had it sleaved to a 100 new inignition system piston and rod if you payed someone to do this work what do you think 1500 bucks? + 500 for motor 2k.. old rolling rs 125 with no motor 1000-1200? spear set of rims 500-600 bucks? some one to make a 2 stroke exhaust 400 bucks?
pay someone to put the engine in 500-700 ? if you want some new fairing 600 bucks. thats over 5k if you payed someone for a winning bike with a good rider what do you think. and still would only look like a 1500 bucket lol

It is a little scary ($$) when you actually put it like that... But we have all had this conversation before.
But that is still at the extreme end of things; that hasn't been done yet (?).

Of course there are jobs that us ordinary people just can't do and the only way is to pay and/or beg; to realise a dream. and fortunately there are still engineers that are willing to actually attempt silly bucket ideas.

Racing is racing and everyone wants to go faster; at lease the rules aren't to prohibitive toward silly ideas and backyard engineering,

[jasonu]

at lease the rules aren't to prohibitive toward silly ideas and backyard engineering,

If they were Buckets would not exist.

[Buckets4Me]

l think say you bought a rg 150 motor say 500 bucks had it sleaved to a 100 new inignition system piston and rod if you payed someone to do this work what do you think 1500 bucks? + 500 for motor 2k.. old rolling rs 125 with no motor 1000-1200? spear set of rims 500-600 bucks? some one to make a 2 stroke exhaust 400 bucks?
pay someone to put the engine in 500-700 ? if you want some new fairing 600 bucks. thats over 5k if you payed someone for a winning bike with a good rider what do you think. and still would only look like a 1500 bucket lol

sounds like my bike

rs roller with spare wheels $750 :woohoo:
spare engine out of tz's old racer $? but i did have to give hinm my old bike and engine $150

some second hand slicks $pinched from some young and upcoming gp125 racer's (more than one fell victim to my theft)

the leathers and hemit cost more than the bike :facepalm:

now all i need is that talented rider

you can build a good bike for peanuts (mine cost more than the $900 i show here ) but not much more

guess it has cost 3-4k over 8 years
where can you go racing for $500 a year ? tell me that

[bucketracer]

......... if you payed someone to do this work what do you think 1500 bucks?........ some one to make a 2 stroke exhaust 400 bucks?.........
pay someone to put the engine in 500-700?............

A lot of paying someone else to do stuff, how many bucket racer do you know who have spent that sort of money paying someone else to do their work for them? Can you name one or two? don't think so. Its more likely to be mates helping mates and cartons of bear.

[crazy man]

sounds like my bike

rs roller with spare wheels $750 :woohoo:
spare engine out of tz's old racer $? but i did have to give hinm my old bike and engine $150

some second hand slicks $pinched from some young and upcoming gp125 racer's (more than one fell victim to my theft)

the leathers and hemit cost more than the bike :facepalm:

now all i need is that talented rider

you can build a good bike for peanuts (mine cost more than the $900 i show here ) but not much more

guess it has cost 3-4k over 8 years
where can you go racing for $500 a year ? tell me thatif you managed to pick things up 6-10 years ago rs stuff was cheap but not now unless you are at the right place at the right time

[Henk]

In order to keep costs down I'd like to suggest the following.

1. Engines sealed at the begining of the season, one rebuild allowed per year
2. Control tyres, golden boys are cheap. No slicks or wets and only one set of wheels per bike
3. A limit of 5 liters fuel per weekend or 2.5 liters per day for those who don't attend both days
4. A claiming rule where you have to accept $2500 for your bike if anyone offers it to you, since we've established that a bike can be easily built for less than that.
5. If you win two races on the trot you have to swap bikes with the guy that came last for the next meeting to discourage people modifying things too much

That should bring the costs down and increase numbers on the grid :)

[Buckets4Me]

unless you are at the right place at the right time


I only got the rs roller recently
and it took me a while of looking and trying to get the mrs to let me or look the other way

missed 3 bikes like that

1 was a going rs125 for $1300

[crazy man]

A lot of paying someone else to do stuff, how many bucket racer do you know who have spent that sort of money paying someone else to do their work for them? Can you name one or two? don't think so.most people do as much as possable but if you payed the going rate to have that sort of stuff done thats what it would cost. my mate on his mx bike 12 years ago needed a new piston and fork seals for his bike 1300 later from the shop for a piss easy job

[crazy man]

I only got the rs roller recently
and it took me a while of looking and trying to get the mrs to let me or look the other way

missed 3 bikes like that

1 was a going rs125 for $1300thats the thing lf you take your time and look you may find but if you jump in to it it will cost

[Buckets4Me]

thats the thing lf you take your time and look you may find but if you jump in to it it will cost


you have to have the money there and then

the best way to start is get and fxr shitter $500 -$1000 and start from that
then build up something els and sell the fxr (everyone wants one)

or if you want a 2 stroker strait off
get an old 250 4stroke bike and put the 2 smoker in it

so fzr tzr zxr cbr or nsr $500 ? and an engine $150 ? + tyres $100 so for around 1k you are up and running with a good bike

[speedpro]

In order to keep costs down I'd like to suggest the following.

1. Engines sealed at the begining of the season, one rebuild allowed per year
2. Control tyres, golden boys are cheap. No slicks or wets and only one set of wheels per bike
3. A limit of 5 liters fuel per weekend or 2.5 liters per day for those who don't attend both days
4. A claiming rule where you have to accept $2500 for your bike if anyone offers it to you, since we've established that a bike can be easily built for less than that.
5. If you win two races on the trot you have to swap bikes with the guy that came last for the next meeting to discourage people modifying things too much

That should bring the costs down and increase numbers on the grid :)

1 - yeah, OK with that
2 - the way i ride it won't make any differance
3 - 5 litres? I had 6+ in the bike at the start of the last race day I raced at and it ran out at the start of the 2nd race.
4 - Over the years I've spent about that getting things done on this engine, plus all the work I've done myself so that'll be a real prob for me.
5 - I can easily see myself getting a ride on some fast guys bike out of this.

[bucketracer]

Lets go the other way and imagine that you have a Gold Card and can spend rely big $$$$$$ on buying Bucket bits and development.

What would you get and would it be able to better TeeZee's home built engine.

[bucketracer]

In order to keep costs down I'd like to suggest the following.

1. Engines sealed at the begining of the season, one rebuild allowed per year
2. Control tyres, golden boys are cheap. No slicks or wets and only one set of wheels per bike
3. A limit of 5 liters fuel per weekend or 2.5 liters per day for those who don't attend both days
4. A claiming rule where you have to accept $2500 for your bike if anyone offers it to you, since we've established that a bike can be easily built for less than that.
5. If you win two races on the trot you have to swap bikes with the guy that came last for the next meeting to discourage people modifying things too much

Sounds like a formula class, so we should limit 125 2-Strokes to a 24mm carb equivalent, that will slow down the power race too.

[jasonu]

In order to keep costs down I'd like to suggest the following.



1. Engines sealed at the begining of the season, one rebuild allowed per year
2. Control tyres, golden boys are cheap. No slicks or wets and only one set of wheels per bike
3. A limit of 5 liters fuel per weekend or 2.5 liters per day for those who don't attend both days
4. A claiming rule where you have to accept $2500 for your bike if anyone offers it to you, since we've established that a bike can be easily built for less than that.
5. If you win two races on the trot you have to swap bikes with the guy that came last for the next meeting to discourage people modifying things too much

That should bring the costs down and increase numbers on the grid :)

Disclaimer. If the above post is a wind up then please disregard the following reply as I got sucked in.

1. What is considered a rebuild? New reeds, a new valve, a piston or ring, a leaky seal? So if you blow up at the first meeting of the year you are out for the next 12 months? Won't be many entries late in the season. Not even the heavily regulated 250 proddy class was limited in this way.
2. A set of tires for a bucket will last at least a season and 2nd hand perfectly useable tires don't cost much.
3. Fuel for a bucket is one of the minor costs. Say 10 liters per weekend (anyone use this much) is still only $25 or so.
4.Yes you can build a bike for under $2500 but is it anyone elses business what is spent? I did a lot of fabbing welding machining myself and a couple of mates did some stuff for me that I wasn't able to in trade for stuff they needed me to do so no cash involved. If you had to pay the going rate for these things $5k+ easy. Why should that 'free' work be subject to a claiming rule.
If you had to pay full price to duplicate No Mates bike big bucks would be involved. I doubt wether Speedpro would hapilly part with #6 for $2500
5. That is unrealistic.

[Henk]

Disclaimer. If the above post is a wind up then please disregard the following reply as I got sucked in.

That was easier than I thought.

[Buckets4Me]

4. A claiming rule where you have to accept $2500 for your bike if anyone offers it to you, since we've established that a bike can be easily built for less than that.


when did we establish that it was easy to build a bike for $2500

it take a lot of work and thought
to make 30h/p from a bucket

I'm sure if you supplied the parts and $2500 TZ would build you a gp125 engine

then you can fit it to the fxr you have :)

[Henk]

when did we establish that it was easy to build a bike for $2500

it take a lot of work and thought
to make 30h/p from a bucket

Dead right, but to run on kart tracks (with the possible exception of Kaitoke) horsepower doesn't count for as much as corner speed and rider ability. I know that probably doesn't hold for the top few but as far as I can see ponies haven't been the deciding factor. Last unfounded rumour I heard was that the Diprose machines make about 23, they aren't exactly getting lapped.

[jasonu]

the Diprose machines make about 23, they aren't exactly getting lapped.

Yes and I bet there has been more than $2500 spent on those bikes.
Having said that, Dave is a bit of a tight wad...

[kel]

Last unfounded rumour I heard was that the Diprose machines make about 23, they aren't exactly getting lapped.

24hp in a RS125 chassis weighing in at 70ish kg, think about how much power you would need in an FXR chassis to beat that (unless you're Tim Fraser), or, in line with what this thread has mophered into, how much you would need to spend to beat that!

Any ways this thread has gone massively off topic, anyone remember moto3?

[richban]

Any ways this thread has gone massively off topic, anyone remember moto3?

Who cares about moto3.

I want a class that pits 2 stroke against 4 stroke. A class that is consistently evolving. A class that the limits are pushed in engineering, chassis design and engine development. Oh wait I here F4 & F5 is like that. We get the best of both worlds. Ride what you like and race as hard as you want. It has something for everyone. The one thing I hate is when people fucken chop on about money. Who gives a shit as long as everyone is having a good time. We should be concentrating more on getting some more national events in the mix so we can test the hard work people put in on the track.

[jasonu]

Any ways this thread has gone massively off topic, anyone remember moto3?

Start your own thread if you want to change the subject.

BTW any progress with the TZR chassis?

[Henk]

We should be concentrating more on getting some more national events in the mix so we can test the hard work people put in on the track.

Cheeky cheap dig time. (and not a shot at Rich)
We've had two rounds of the NI series and the feilds haven't been that big that people have been turned away or required to qualify.

And yes I know you are probably refering to events more along the lines of the TRRS on big tracks. I'm not sure why bucket racers are so unlikely to travel, I imagine it's partly because people come into the sport because it's cheap and easy and throwing $300 worth of gas in the van for a weekend away sleeping in a tent doesn't fit that picture. Shame really becuase the two rounds so far have been more fun than a bucket full of kittens. Having said that all rounds are being run on kart tracks at the moment which doesn't really allow the highly delevoped bikes out there to show their best. Not that I'm objecting, my shitter FXR is set up for goat tracks.

[Buckets4Me]

Who cares about moto3.

I want a class that pits 2 stroke against 4 stroke. A class that is consistently evolving. A class that the limits are pushed in engineering, chassis design and engine development. Oh wait I here F4 & F5 is like that. We get the best of both worlds. Ride what you like and race as hard as you want. It has something for everyone. The one thing I hate is when people fucken chop on about money. Who gives a shit as long as everyone is having a good time. We should be concentrating more on getting some more national events in the mix so we can test the hard work people put in on the track.

what he said x2


no one has managed to spend gazillions and beat everybody (yet!)

you can build a good nice looking bike for a fair price and be competitive
but you cant get away with turning up with a heap of junk anymore (I say thats a good thing)

[Henk]

but you cant get away with turning up with a heap of junk anymore (I say thats a good thing)

I disagree, you can still turn up with a cheap, nasty, old school cb125 single and have an absolute blast wobbling about in the B grade. That's what I did to start with and if it hadn't been as much fun as it was I wouldn't have persevered with it and gone down the FXR route in an attempt to stop falling off the bicycle profile tyres that were the only things that would fit.
I know of at least two guys up here on cheap slow bikes that are having an absolute blast.

[Gigglebutton]

Lets go the other way and imagine that you have a Gold Card and can spend rely big $$$$$$ on buying Bucket bits and development.
What would you get and would it be able to better TeeZee's home built engine.

Wobbly for engine and pipe design
Wobbly again for ignition and handmade parts like bare cylinder castings for outragish ports
Nigal No Mates for fabricating the pipe. (he is very good at it)
Stan Stephens UK for porting work.
RS Chasis from Japan or USA
Spare wheels and new slicks and wets
Robert Taylor for Oholins front and rear
RMS Eng for fitting the engine into the RS chassis.
Tripple Zee for Dyno Work

Shouldnt cost much.

[Buckets4Me]

I disagree, you can still turn up with a cheap, nasty, old school cb125 single and have an absolute blast


I agree with you there but your mates arn't hasling Karl or Dave or Tim Garry Rick or any of the other fast guys (and it's not because of a lack of talent now is it)

$100 shitter is not going to cut the mustard but it may get them hooked :woohoo:

[Buckets4Me]

Wobbly forengine and pipe deign
Wobbly for ignition and handmade parts like bare cylinder castings for outragish ports
Nigal No Mates for fabricating the pipe. (he is very good at it)
Stan Stephens UK for portints work.
RS Chasis from Japan or USA
Spare wheels and new slicks and wets
Robert Taylor for Oholins front and rear
RMS Eng for fitting the engine into the RS chasis.
Tripple Zee for Dyno Work

Shouldnt cost much.


that sounds like my bike

Rs frame (got)
Ohlins fround and rear (came with the frame)
spare wheels and wets (came with the frame)
Wobbly designed engine (shall we call it TZ wobbly designed) comming
rs pipe moded to suit (spare floating around from TZ)
ESE fitted the engine (done)
and the Dyno is a given (next time I get down there with the bike) thanks ESE again

watchout for a thread coming your way soon

18 h/p just isn't enough for me anymore

[Henk]

$100 shitter is not going to cut the mustard but it may get them hooked :woohoo:

$350 dollar shitter did it for me.

The standard of bikes has risen over the past few years and I don't see that as a bad thing. Tired old argument I know but it is more F4 F5 than buckets these days and I suspect that is one of the things that is helping the sport grow.

[Henk]

18 h/p just isn't enough for me anymore

But is 25 - 30 HP on it's own going to be enough to have you winning races?

[Buckets4Me]

But is 25 - 30 HP on it's own going to be enough to have you winning races?

I have won the odd race with 18 so I quess it cant hurt

(now if the dam swingarm had been bolted in)

[TZ350]

you can still turn up with a cheap, nasty, old school cb125 single and have an absolute blast wobbling about in the B grade. That's what I did to start with ........ guys up here on cheap slow bikes are having an absolute blast.

Inexpensive to get started.............


I want a class that pits 2 stroke against 4 stroke. A class that is consistently evolving. A class that the limits are pushed in engineering, chassis design and engine development. Oh wait I here F4 & F5 is like that. We get the best of both worlds. Ride what you like and race as hard as you want. It has something for everyone.

And yes Sir, I totaly agree.............

I think Buckets has to be the most affordable place to go hard out according to your taste, riding and/or tuning, best bang for buck anywhere.

[crazy man]

you have to have the money there and then

the best way to start is get and fxr shitter $500 -$1000 and start from that
then build up something els and sell the fxr (everyone wants one)

or if you want a 2 stroker strait off
get an old 250 4stroke bike and put the 2 smoker in it

so fzr tzr zxr cbr or nsr $500 ? and an engine $150 ? + tyres $100 so for around 1k you are up and running with a good bikelm only going on what l'v seen here before dont even know why l got on to this lol l have about 10 buckets was mad in my day lol

[Ivan]

how many years has Aprilia been developing the 125GP bike to make that?

Years

The Moto3 bikes are brand new no development yet and are pushing a good starting base,


Now I hear people saying 4 strokes cost more to run i own and have raced a RS125 for 5 years dont race it any more and now race a Yamaha YZF450 I havent even done a single rebuild on it it doesnt need one the Yamaha dealer also said the same thing he said keep up the oil changes and checking it out and itl be sweet its done 140 hours,

140 hours of pure abuse as I know the last owner was abusive as to it and he never rebuilt it and he had it from new then me I thrash the living daylights out of it and its sweet these bikes are going to be good, And I also ride myne across 3-4 paddocks at a time tapped out in top gear as well so I have abused my engine


This is the future, it will get better to

[Henk]

lm only going on what l'v seen here before dont even know why l got on to this lol l have about 10 buckets was mad in my day lol

Get them back on track. or pass them on to someone who will, pleaase.

[crazy man]

Get them back on track. or pass them on to someone who will, pleaase.l should get back out there the athritis is killing me in f3 buckets mite be what l should get back into

[bucketracer]

l have about 10 buckets was mad in my day lol

Would love to get my hands on a RG50 engine, parts or bike.

[crazy man]

Would love to get my hands on a RG50 engine, parts or bike.think l have 2 engines will have a look

[Henk]

Excellent, lets build up F5. I'm working on an FXL100 for Michelle at the moment and when that's finished (and if it works OK) will start trying to put an F5 bike together for myself.

[crazy man]

what is a FXL100 ?whats the engine?

[Dutchee]

XL100 engine
FXR frame
I think he's trying to get me to go faster (good luck with that part), but see if I enjoy F5 more than B grade.
I dunno, it keeps him quiet(ish), and I'm pretty sure it all started when he had so much fun riding Cully's bike in F5 (plus me being asked by so many people if I'd ever considered moving into F5 - which I hadn't really, more just giving up and going road riding more) lol

[gav]

Oooo, at an outside guess, maybe an XL100 in an FXR chassis? :innocent:

[crazy man]

XL100 engine
FXR frame
I think he's trying to get me to go faster (good luck with that part), but see if I enjoy F5 more than B grade.
I dunno, it keeps him quiet(ish), and I'm pretty sure it all started when he had so much fun riding Cully's bike in F5 (plus me being asked by so many people if I'd ever considered moving into F5 - which I hadn't really, more just giving up and going road riding more) lolso you are aloud a 100 four stroke to run with the 50cc 2 strokes ?cool

[Henk]

yep 50cc line trimmer motor or 100cc diesel with a 20mm carb restriction.

[all4A50s]

Bugger the budget if that what takes your fancy.

Spend what you want on whatever you want keeping within the rules.

As long as you are having fun, no matter how fast or slow you go.

[gatch]

I think I've spent about $800 on mine so far. It's not going to cost much more before it's on the track. As it is, it won't be competitive at the pointy end of A grade, but I'll be looking to mix it up with the other punters in B grade. So long as I can beat that Richard Hayes homo at Kaitoke I'll be happy.


Lets go the other way and imagine that you have a Gold Card and can spend rely big $$$$$$ on buying Bucket bits and development.

What would you get and would it be able to better TeeZee's home built engine.

Wobbly, CKT and F1 engineering should be able to whip up something nice between them..

[jasonu]

Wobbly, CKT and F1 engineering should be able to whip up something nice between them..

Has a wobbly bike won a bucket race or even got some good results in the last few years???
Note, not havin a go at wobbly, just wondering what all of the talking up of wobbly is based on.

[kel]

Note, not havin a go at wobbly, just wondering what all of the talking up of wobbly is based on.

Someone's not getting a Christmas card this year

[richban]

Has a wobbly bike won a bucket race or even got some good results in the last few years???
Note, not havin a go at wobbly, just wondering what all of the talking up of wobbly is based on.

I think it is based on quotes like this.

"Fortunately for the two-stroke fraternity, a chance meeting with famed Grand Prix Engineer Wayne 'Wobbly' Wright unlocked the key to really perfecting these promising hybrids. Over a career spanning more than 30 years, Wayne has designed and built and tuned the best. As a 500cc GP Engineer, he built race-winning pipes for the Red Bull Yamaha racing team. His engines and pipes and ignitions have won GPs and Championships all over the world."

I am not sure that any of the new engines are actually racing. I am sure that if wobbly built a bucket engine put it in an RS frame or what ever and put a racer on it we would be fucked.

Proof is in results and the last big in counter goes 1, 2, 3, to the FXRs developed buy Kelford and copied buy many.

Are you ready to change that result?

[jaffaonajappa]

I dont know the guy....but reading that....its based on him being pretty farken Good! :)

[gatch]

Has a wobbly bike won a bucket race or even got some good results in the last few years???
Note, not havin a go at wobbly, just wondering what all of the talking up of wobbly is based on.

How many people have thrown their platinum cards at wobbly and said "make it rain" ?

Google search Wayne "wobbly" Wright..

[Brian d marge]

assuming this is still about moto3 , the engine in the honda isnt exactly state of the art ..
twin cam , chain driven...... what did they do , mod a existing casting and skim the head....


Stephen

[richban]

assuming this is still about moto3 , the engine in the honda isnt exactly state of the art ..
twin cam , chain driven...... what did they do , mod a existing casting and skim the head....


Stephen

They are quite restricted on how these engines are built. I think 190hp per liter is rather good for the of the shelf model single 4 banger. Will be interesting to see what KTM and the others come in with. Thats like having an 85hp CRF450. I think its respectable.

[Brian d marge]

They are quite restricted on how these engines are built. I think 190hp per liter is rather good for the of the shelf model single 4 banger. Will be interesting to see what KTM and the others come in with. Thats like having an 85hp CRF450. I think its respectable.These are Honda figures you are quoting , Who do you think supplies me with my crack cocaine ??

Im quite looking forward to Next year, what with all the changes

Stephen

[puddytat]

Thats like having an 85hp CRF450. I think its respectable.

Wouldve been a way better motor for it....

[crazy man]

Wouldve been a way better motor for it....why is that? l would say the 250 will go very well

[puddytat]

why is that? l would say the 250 will go very well

Just more grunt & cooler sounding really....the one at Catalunya sonded like an FXR:facepalm:
:blip:

[richban]

Just more grunt & cooler sounding really....the one at Catalunya sonded like an FXR:facepalm:
:blip:

Maybe the KTM will run a mega. I am sure at 14k it should sound like race bike. I think the decibel limit is 120. Don't quote me on that.

One of the best sound to come out of a race bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch_Mwsg17HI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JTDVPFKwlc

[kel]

One of the best sound to come out of a race bike.

I think you are mistaken - That true honour belongs to the Honda RC166 (6 cylinder 4 stroke 250cc, as close as a 4 stroke can get to a real GP bike)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QUjlsBNRME&feature=related

[richban]

I think you are mistaken - That true honour belongs to the Honda RC166 (6 cylinder 4 stroke 250cc, as close as a 4 stroke can get to a real GP bike)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QUjlsBNRME&feature=related

True that. As an x laverda triple owner from way back I like the sound of the triple but you are not wrong that did sound very nice.

Now how do I make a 3 cylinder 150 4 stroke bucket?

[Ivan]

Lets see what other brands make,

KTM seem to be doing well at building smaller engines than there japanese competitors but being more than fast enough take the Yamaha YZF450 and a bike that will give it a good run is a KTM 350 100cc less I reckon KTM are gonna be onto something here.

Dont count Yamaha out either they are known in the MotoX world as the bike of choice,

Honda are pretty good to

Its gonna be good to see

[jasonu]

Lets see what other brands make,

KTM seem to be doing well at building smaller engines than there japanese competitors but being more than fast enough take the Yamaha YZF450 and a bike that will give it a good run is a KTM 350 100cc less I reckon KTM are gonna be onto something here.

Dont count Yamaha out either they are known in the MotoX world as the bike of choice,

Honda are pretty good to

Its gonna be good to see

If you watched the just finished AMA Supercross season you would know that the KTM 350SX didn't have a shit show against the better half of the 450's. That was with Mike Allessi and Andrew Short punting them and they are both very fast riders.

[richban]

Not surprising at AMA level. They won't make that mistake with a GP engine you would hope.

The thing that will be good to study will be the exhaust tech that comes through. The bad sounding honda looks like they are trying to capture another resonance wave with the tail pipe extension. Maybe I should ducktape the kitchen sink U bend to my megaphone for the next meeting.

[jasonu]

Not surprising at AMA level. They won't make that mistake with a GP engine you would hope.

The thing that will be good to study will be the exhaust tech that comes through. The bad sounding honda looks like they are trying to capture another resonance wave with the tail pipe extension. Maybe I should ducktape the kitchen sink U bend to my megaphone for the next meeting.

Make sure you remember to disconnect the kitchen sink first...

[Brian d marge]

KTM are hooking up withKALEX , the moto2 chassis maker that has been doing quite well
At this point , KTM looks good ...

Stephen

[gatch]

True that. As an x laverda triple owner from way back I like the sound of the triple but you are not wrong that did sound very nice.

Now how do I make a 3 cylinder 150 4 stroke bucket?

Sleeve down a CBR250RRRRRRRRR and remove a cylinder. I've thought about this idea.

A lot.

[TZ350]

Trident tripple racer.............. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeMx3-vNUlw

[jaffaonajappa]

Jasonu's thread with some nice close-ups of the NSF, on youtube...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/138900-Future-bucket-chassis

[richban]

Jasonu's thread with some nice close-ups of the NSF, on youtube...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/138900-Future-bucket-chassis

Gunna get the Japanese girl at work to translate for me.

[kel]

I think you are mistaken - That true honour belongs to the Honda RC166 (6 cylinder 4 stroke 250cc, as close as a 4 stroke can get to a real GP bike)

Ha seems I put up a link to an RC161 4 cylinder, still sounds pretty cool though.

RC166 is this one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaRop_ZMwo0

[TZ350]

Can't beat the sound of cruiser engines.......... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmVfrS8OEVw&NR=1

This is a bit of real riding................ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c2nsDtaMlI&feature=related

[koba]

My 2cents on an awesome sounding motorcycle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TG7f2imRQo

[TZ350]

Nearly Bucket legal 4 cylinder 125, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EIij9U_LZw&feature=related

Pure Music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBrb93O_Xg0&feature=related

[Buckets4Me]

http://youtu.be/KG8oNz5oyQ8

who said big wasn't sexy

http://youtu.be/19nkmgj6qaM

and in anger

[all4A50s]

I want Santa to bring me a Honda 5 this Christmas but I don't think I could behave until then.