View Full Version : Destiny Church gets $860,000
shrub
8th June 2011, 18:57
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10730987
WTF?
Gotta teach those Gays that they are carrying out the Devil's Work, and what better way to do it than with Government Money?
P/T you Homos.
Blackshear
8th June 2011, 19:10
Bullying the government into allowing grants?
Oh well, all we can do it sit back and hope this festering pile of shit doesn't get too much richer and reach criticality.
Oakie
8th June 2011, 19:13
It works out at $10,700 per 'young person'. I wonder how they are going to spend that.
Personally I don't have a problem with Destiny having the money as long as they are well audited and the money is well spent and delivers the desired outcomes.
Hitcher
8th June 2011, 19:52
Density isn't a church. It's a money-making franchise that trades at the frontiers of the law. Taxpayers' money shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.
tri boy
8th June 2011, 20:17
Pork barrel politics, NZ style.:facepalm:
The Everlasting
8th June 2011, 20:18
Destiny isn't a church. It's a money-making franchise that trades at the frontiers of the law. Taxpayers' money shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.
I fully agree! I couldn't believe it when i saw it on the news.
Density isn't a church. It's a money-making franchise that trades at the frontiers of the law. Taxpayers' money shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.
They are also very, very clever. They have developed structures that have been designed to "fit" the requirements of freely available grant programs. Any group, properly structured and that meets stated criteria, can get funding like this.
These grants are available for a specific reason, obviously Destiny met that reason, they can demonstrate results...
Destiny is not the problem...
pete376403
8th June 2011, 20:40
Perhaps one of the coalition parties wanted to be sure that densities votes will not be delivered to mana party, or labour party.
8000 odd density members? Thats a handy chunk of (mainly) maori voters
Density isn't a church. It's a money-making franchise that trades at the frontiers of the law. Taxpayers' money shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.
Well said, that man.
Hitcher
8th June 2011, 20:46
I would be most surprised if all of Density's donors did exactly what Bullshit Brian told them to, particularly when it came to exercising their vote. And there's only a few thousand of them, which is less than the margin of error. In past general elections there have been attempts by god-bothering parties to run for election. All have failed to win support even from Christians, even those parties who were led by convicted kiddie fiddlers. If there is a god, she has a wicked sense of humour.
Toaster
8th June 2011, 21:17
Density isn't a church. It's a money-making franchise that trades at the frontiers of the law. Taxpayers' money shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it.
Agreed.
It is pure wealth creation for a slick talking shepherd from the deluded foolishness of a stupid flock.
jaffaonajappa
8th June 2011, 21:27
It is pure wealth creation for a slick talking shepherd from the deluded foolishness of a stupid flock.
Ditto.
+1,
Cant stand the buggers. But im not too fussed with the Sallies either. But. I have seen some of the good work the Sallies have done (not Destiny), and they did it without mouthing off their religious beliefs. Kudos to them for that.
Do these groups recognise the boundary between promotion their own brand of crap, making money, and occasionally doing some genuine charity - welfare work?
I Have seen the sallies make this distinction. Im hoping the Destiny crowd would too - otherwise our Governments going to get Buuuuurned when the media figure it out :) Which they will.
The Lone Rider
8th June 2011, 21:32
Lets hope they don't get any business tips (and followers) from Landmark
them fancy boats and harleys dont buy themselves you know
Winston001
8th June 2011, 22:35
I'm not bothered. The very little I know about the Destiny Church comes from media headlines which I don't trust to give a balanced view.
I have no doubt Bishop Brian enjoys his influence and fame. That doesn't mean the ordinary people in the church are bad or stupid or evil. Those involved in the youth programs will be doing what they believe in their hearts to be best.
Even the govts "boot camp" experiment last year hasn't worked with 60% reoffending. Destiny are worth a try.
jaffaonajappa
8th June 2011, 22:49
Even the govts "boot camp" experiment last year hasn't worked with 60% reoffending. Destiny are worth a try.
Buuuuut, The boot camp thing was aimed at the guys who were least likely to stop further offending, and some borderline cases. The stats for this boot camp thing are still under review - I hear its hard to benchmark this.!
And I am not saying other youth development courses and etc arent also targeting at risk youth. Just saying - dont beleive the boot camp numbers till more analysis.
Scouse
8th June 2011, 22:56
Looks to me like Paula Bennet has got the poor old tax payer to sort her tythe (sp) to the church for the next six months
Winston001
8th June 2011, 23:52
Must say I've always thought the boot camp was an excellent idea. From people I've known who joined the Army and saw the transformation in guys from awful backgrounds, the experience is positive.
However a 6 week course isn't enough to establish new habits and self-respect.
Also international research suggests boot camps don't work and I would assume that is because they don't last long enough. If the kids go back home to abuse, alcohol, and drugs, its tough for them to change.
jasonu
9th June 2011, 03:44
Who the hell voted for the morons who are dishing out these tax dollars? IMO, these are the ones responsible for this stupidity.
Motig
9th June 2011, 08:06
According to news reports earlier in the week Brian will tell his followers how to vote. In the herald this morning an article about the money says Destiny is not happy cos there not making money out of the scheme.
Toaster
9th June 2011, 08:08
I have seen some of the good work the Sallies have done (not Destiny).
And that is the key point, the Salvation Army like many other organisations do good real practical work in the community. So do Lions, Rotary, Freemasons, other church groups, community groups and individuals.
Doing good work/helping others out - that is something all of us can do better. Imagine how much better our neighbourhoods would be if we all helped each other out more than we currently do.
All Destiny leaders seem to do is line their own pockets.
Swoop
9th June 2011, 08:11
I think this is an excellent decision.
If the destiny cult are permitted taxpayer dollars, then this means that their entire operation can now start paying taxes to the government.
Fair is fair.
shrub
9th June 2011, 08:14
If you read the bible, especially the new testament, believers are exhorted to "love your neighbour as yourself" and to provide for the social needs of the community it operates in - good examples are the Sallies, Presbytarian Support etc. The bible is quite clear that the tithe is not to make the priests rich, but to fill the storehouse and before the welfare state the church WAS the welfare state.
If Bishop Brian and his mates said "don't stress about tithing because part of your tax covers most of what your tithes are supposed to do" I'd be pretty relaxed about this, but he doesn't. His 8000 followers tithe - and some double and even treble tithe - and as a result Destiny has a huge income. So why do you and I have to add to that income so they can do what Christ told them to do without having to dip into the Bish's boat or new Harley fund.
And I won't even bring up the fact that Christ only mentioned tithing once and even then in criticising the tithers for not having their priorities right, but then selectivity is fundamental to christian doctrine.
scissorhands
9th June 2011, 08:27
The Tamaki brothers are pretty awesome eh!
Its like they are honkies on the inside! chuur.... must be because uncle Sam and god are on our side now eh?
ynot slow
9th June 2011, 08:38
God works in mysterious ways,never a truer sentance spoken.
jaffaonajappa
9th June 2011, 08:38
Must say I've always thought the boot camp was an excellent idea. From people I've known who joined the Army and saw the transformation in guys from awful backgrounds, the experience is positive.
Yup. Ive seen the same.......still keep in touch with most the people from my LSV 'boot camp' from 1992. Over half of us just were not aware that life could be good, or that effort was required to make it good. 3/24 went to prison afterwards, 21/24 managed a clean life. Well...a life, heheh. Majority of that 21 believe they would have done prison time if they hadnt experienced the LSV boot camp.
Paul in NZ
9th June 2011, 08:44
Looks to me like Paula Bennet has got the poor old tax payer to sort her tythe (sp) to the church for the next six months
Is she a member of destiny?
jim.cox
9th June 2011, 10:49
God works in mysterious ways,never a truer sentance spoken.
Bollocks - God does not exist
Woodman
9th June 2011, 10:57
I think this is an excellent decision.
If the destiny cult are permitted taxpayer dollars, then this means that their entire operation can now start paying taxes to the government.
Fair is fair.
Do they not pay tax now????
Swoop
9th June 2011, 11:01
Do they not pay tax now????
"Religious establishments" do not contribute to the government's coffers.
destiny is a cult, anyway. Start coughing up some tax dollars Mr Tamaki.
Woodman
9th June 2011, 11:11
"Religious establishments" do not contribute to the government's coffers.
destiny is a cult, anyway. Start coughing up some tax dollars Mr Tamaki.
For fuck sake!!! What sort of society are we living in?? How have they got away with this? :angry::angry::angry:
Churches are a business (nothing more) just like any other money making establishment therefore should be on the same level playing field as the rest of us.
nathanwhite
9th June 2011, 11:16
How have they got away with this? :angry::angry::angry:
Churches are a business (nothing more) just like any other money making establishment therefore should be on the same level playing field as the rest of us.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9602898/govt-funds-850k-destiny-projects/
read the article. The herald one doesn't say this, but the money didn't go directly to the church or brian's pockets, it went to their programmes to develop/better the community.
Sure no one likes their methods, but at least that money can only go back out to the community.
Bald Eagle
9th June 2011, 11:17
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9602898/govt-funds-850k-destiny-projects/
read the article. The herald one doesn't say this, but the money didn't go directly to the church or brian's pockets, it went to their programmes to develop/better the community.
Sure no one likes their methods, but at least that money can only go back out to the community.
Less the usual management overheads of course.
nathanwhite
9th June 2011, 11:19
of course.
But that's what? a few thousand at the most?
Bald Eagle
9th June 2011, 11:31
of course.
But that's what? a few thousand at the most?
what's left you mean :facepalm:
nathanwhite
9th June 2011, 11:37
i wonder if anyone here knows someone who knows someone who works at destiny...get them to tell us how much money actually comes out of that institute....
Grasshopperus
9th June 2011, 11:49
Who the hell voted for the morons who are dishing out these tax dollars? IMO, these are the ones responsible for this stupidity.
Well that's you too because you voted didn't you? Oh wait you're overseas. Bustard!
Woodman
9th June 2011, 16:43
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/9602898/govt-funds-850k-destiny-projects/
read the article. The herald one doesn't say this, but the money didn't go directly to the church or brian's pockets, it went to their programmes to develop/better the community.
Sure no one likes their methods, but at least that money can only go back out to the community.
Don't have a problem if Destiny gets deadbeats off the streets /drugs or out of prison etc, but what I do object to and its a bit off topic, is that (if)churches get tax exemptions because their business is somehow different to other customer service businesses.
BTW don't go on too much about it cos religion gets treated different on here too. :shutup:
Winston001
9th June 2011, 21:32
Don't have a problem if Destiny gets deadbeats off the streets /drugs or out of prison etc, but what I do object to and its a bit off topic, is that (if)churches get tax exemptions because their business is somehow different to other customer service businesses.
BTW don't go on too much about it cos religion gets treated different on here too. :shutup:
Most churches are registered charities which makes them exempt from income tax. They still have to pay GST, PAYE, fringe benefit tax, etc.
They are the same as the Red Cross, St Johns, SPCA, and Habitat For Humanity. If you gave a donation to any of those, would you want 30% to go to the government?
Woodman
9th June 2011, 22:46
Most churches are registered charities which makes them exempt from income tax. They still have to pay GST, PAYE, fringe benefit tax, etc.
They are the same as the Red Cross, St Johns, SPCA, and Habitat For Humanity. If you gave a donation to any of those, would you want 30% to go to the government?
Sorry but from what I can see is churches only help their own members (and feather their own nests) whereas the others don't discriminate, so yes their profits should be taxed just like every other business in the customer service game, which is every other business.
Winston001
9th June 2011, 22:58
LOL oh dear Woodman, you need to get out more. Most major religions encourage help for other people regardless of belief. Islam requires graciousness and hospitality to strangers. Hinduism believes in charity to the poor - which is why beggars are an accepted part of the community in India. Bhuddism teaches love and kindness to others.
And Christianity? A central tenet is treating others as you would like to be treated. Going further, laying down your life for others.
None of these faiths/philosophies require other humans to be of the same group to receive kindness.
Scouse
9th June 2011, 23:17
Is she a member of destiny?Don't you understand ireverence?
Paul in NZ
10th June 2011, 05:49
Don't you understand ireverence?
Well spelling it incorrectly does make it harder..... :innocent:
I asked 'cos she seemed a likely candidate....
Grubber
10th June 2011, 06:36
I once heard Brian Tamaki say "we are like any other large corporate enterprise and i am the CEO of that company,so why shouldn't i be paid well?"
Didn't realize it was a large Company. Always thought churches were a religious charity of sorts, well there ya go, just goes to show, i don't know everything.:yes:
Woodman
10th June 2011, 10:46
LOL oh dear Woodman, you need to get out more. Most major religions encourage help for other people regardless of belief. Islam requires graciousness and hospitality to strangers. Hinduism believes in charity to the poor - which is why beggars are an accepted part of the community in India. Bhuddism teaches love and kindness to others.
And Christianity? A central tenet is treating others as you would like to be treated. Going further, laying down your life for others.
None of these faiths/philosophies require other humans to be of the same group to receive kindness.
You are not convincing me.
Its just basic customer service. Charity = marketing.
If you are nice to people and show them kindness then maybe they will give you money in return for what you have to offer, and if you do it well and convince them that your service or product is better then maybe they will become regular customers.
Woodman
10th June 2011, 10:50
Hinduism believes in charity to the poor - which is why beggars are an accepted part of the community in India.
Yes maiming your children so they are worth more as beggars needs to be encouraged
Hitcher
10th June 2011, 21:31
Keep it on topic folks. If this becomes a "religious" discussion, then the site's rules will require it to expedited to Pointless Drivel.
Winston001
10th June 2011, 22:01
All hail mighty Mods. We are not worthy :not:
MIXONE
10th June 2011, 22:09
... well there ya go, just goes to show, i don't know everything.:yes:
How could you when that's your wife's job?:innocent:
Woodman
10th June 2011, 22:18
Can't go offending good God fearing folk now can we??
Political or Scientific beliefs are fine to dis, but religion, ooooh thats different for some reason.
Back on topic please.
Genie
10th June 2011, 22:21
///and who really cares????
that was yesterday...now is way more fun
can't change anything so your opinion don't mean fuck...
avgas
10th June 2011, 23:31
can't change anything so your opinion don't mean fuck...
Well apparently there is a guy in petone with a knack with fire and churches. Pay him $10K I say....
Teflon
11th June 2011, 13:13
I hope someone shoots the cunt
Winston001
11th June 2011, 19:48
I once heard Brian Tamaki say "we are like any other large corporate enterprise and i am the CEO of that company,so why shouldn't i be paid well?"
Didn't realize it was a large Company. Always thought churches were a religious charity of sorts, well there ya go, just goes to show, i don't know everything.:yes:
I am chairman of a charity and also do volunteer work for it - unpaid. We gross around $300k/pa from which wages and running costs are paid, leaving enough over to build half a house.
Anyway, we use a corporate model with complex accounts, reporting to NZ national office, pay humongous audit fees, and generally run the charity like a business. Trust me, its essential to survive. Lots a charities and clubs fail because of poor governance.
Can't go offending good God fearing folk now can we??
Political or Scientific beliefs are fine to dis, but religion, ooooh thats different for some reason.
Back on topic please.
"Dis" is short for Disrespect. And that's the crucial issue.
Arguing with someone and telling them why you believe their idea/belief is incorrect is fine. Religion, science, or politics.
But many many people think that disrespecting somebody else is also acceptable. It isn't.
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