Scooter and red lights [Archive]

oneofsix

9th June 2011, 15:02

Warning; Typical authoritarian bullshit answers from the :Police: and WCC. :angry:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/the-wellingtonian/5115335/Scooters-avoiding-red-light-cameras

I've been caught on the motorbike in similar situation and there is no way I could risk putting it on the stand, walking over to the pedestrian button and back to the bike and be ready and composed to move off. the button was so far from where I had to stop and because there was no traffic the pedestrian crossing would trigger almost immediately and the traffic lights would amber by the time I got back to the bike.

Why can't they be sensible? why can't people in authority take responsibility for the cock ups they create? Put a fucking pressure plate down.

willytheekid

9th June 2011, 15:28

nodrog

9th June 2011, 16:02

"He agreed pedestrian crossings should be utilised"

Yes Officer :scooter::Oops::doctor:

Usarka

9th June 2011, 16:10

because the sensors were aimed to recognise vehicles with high magnetic fields there was not much that could be done
Gee we done not done thunk about there dat things other than dem automobiles. Heh heh heh.

bogan

9th June 2011, 16:18

Why don't they just put em on a timer when there is bugger all traffic flow in either direction, if a scooter can run a red safely then surely the detectors won't have any metal on em for a significant time!

davereid

9th June 2011, 16:26

Isn't it legal to run a red light if you come to a full stop check its clear for 100mtrs each way and continue on your merry way? (or something like that)
Hope so lol, cos theres a certain light in ChCh that does NOT detect bikes (and I have a Fat bike lol)
I have always just treated it like a stop sign :facepalm:.....sorry local police:Police:(love ya work!)...but waiting for a car to trigger the lights can take FOREVER! and no bloody way am i getting off the bike to run across the road to push a button etc (thats bloody stupid...and possibly dangerous!)

Yes

I was prosecuted by police for ignoring a red light that had not changed for me. Cop said the old stuff about push the button.

I took it to court.

Judge said, sensor is faulty or maladjusted if it does not detect you. Check its safe, and proceed.

Oblivion

9th June 2011, 17:04

I have run a read light, mainly because I was sitting there for 10 minutes :bash: I checked that it was safe both ways, then jumped the red. No-one got hurt, and I saved my sanity. :innocent:

The End

9th June 2011, 17:29

From the article:

"Wellington road policing head senior sergeant Richard Hocken said scooters caught running red lights were subject to the same fines as other motorists. "

All good, so we'll just sit there waiting...and waiting....and waiting until either a car behind you triggers the lights or you decide to turn around. Oh hang on, if you're on the pressure plate, how is the car behind you going to do anything? This would only mean the traffic behind you would back up (as I have had happen to me) causing unnecessary congestion.

I can understand there are situations where going through the red light would not be justifiable, but come on, if you are one of the only vehicles at the intersection and it is OBVIOUS that the other cars are stopped, then why shouldn't you be able to go through?

Would the cop rather have a small 50cc scooter sitting in the middle of the road creating a hazard to both the rider and people around? :facepalm:

As for getting off your bike/scooter, running over and hitting the pedestrian crossing button, are they implying that triggering the pedestrian light would "reset" the traffic lights and make your light turn green once the pedestrian light has gone out?

One would only hope that the cop who pulls you over would be understanding.

Gremlin

9th June 2011, 17:38

I've had the odd one I know of that doesn't work properly. Happens less on the BMW than the Hornet (the BMW is a bit bigger).

I wait for a minute or two max (120 seconds is actually a fair long time), then I presume the lights are faulty. I apply the give way rules instead.

Latte

9th June 2011, 18:14

Certain parts of the world have made it legalfor motorcycles to run red lights, as long as they have come to a stop, checked the way is clear etc.

The ped crossing button doesnt really work in some situations, turning right at an intersection with a seperate turn arrow, wouldnt get activated by any of the Ped Crossings. Example - turning right from Constellation into Caribean Dr on the Shore.

scumdog

9th June 2011, 18:16

Pah, we don't HAVE traffic lights down here!:

So also don't have this problem!:woohoo:

rastuscat

9th June 2011, 20:04

Yes

I was prosecuted by police for ignoring a red light that had not changed for me. Cop said the old stuff about push the button.

I took it to court.

Judge said, sensor is faulty or maladjusted if it does not detect you. Check its safe, and proceed.

Yeah. Trouble is, getting all JPs to agree is challenging.

I run a Popo section that specializes in traffic lights. The problem with common sense is that it'd subjective. You might feel like you've been sitting at a light for decades, then putter through with all care, but if the Popo only sees the putting (not the waiting) you'll be spending time explaining that all to a JP.

Oh so often I've been told by a witness that the lights were red for at least 5 minutes, until I ask them to watch their watch for 5 minutes and tell me if that's how long the phase was. Suddenly the time is more like 30 seconds.

Still, never let the facts get in the way of a great complaint.

HenryDorsetCase

9th June 2011, 20:07

I have run a read light, mainly because I was sitting there for 10 minutes :bash: I checked that it was safe both ways, then jumped the red. No-one got hurt, and I saved my sanity. :innocent:

I wont wait more than 1 minute. TV has ruined my attention span....

cheshirecat

9th June 2011, 20:40

240421

I'm dissallusioned - thought this was your section

Yeah. Trouble is, getting all JPs to agree is challenging.

I run a Popo section that specializes in traffic lights. The problem with common sense is that it'd subjective. You might feel like you've been sitting at a light for decades, then putter through with all care, but if the Popo only sees the putting (not the waiting) you'll be spending time explaining that all to a JP.

Oh so often I've been told by a witness that the lights were red for at least 5 minutes, until I ask them to watch their watch for 5 minutes and tell me if that's how long the phase was. Suddenly the time is more like 30 seconds.

Still, never let the facts get in the way of a great complaint.

Oblivion

9th June 2011, 20:41

I wont wait more than 1 minute. TV has ruined my attention span....

So you've had you recommended 5 hours of TV that has been approved by the American Obesity association? :innocent:

swbarnett

10th June 2011, 04:14

"I would look ahead and zoom straight through."

This is the real problem. Sounds like they're not even treating the lights like a stop sign.

oneofsix

10th June 2011, 07:33

"I would look ahead and zoom straight through."

This is the real problem. Sounds like they're not even treating the lights like a stop sign.

I think you are reading too much into a casual remark, you are probably too used to reading comments after spin doctors have vetted them. Read more into the 'look ahead' part of the remark and concentrate less on the 'zoom', come on after all we are talk a scooter here :scooter: If they had I check the road is clear and then proceed it would be more palatable and mature speak but not student speak.

If the :Police: and council were to allow them to treat red lights as stop sign it would be a solution :yes:

oneofsix

10th June 2011, 07:38

So you've had you recommended 5 hours of TV that has been approved by the American Obesity association? :innocent:
Must have as he has taken time out to post on KB :shutup:

rastuscat

10th June 2011, 19:56

If the :Police: and council were to allow them to treat red lights as stop sign it would be a solution :yes:

Cool, treat traffic lights like stop signs.

Trouble is, most treat stop signs like give ways, so are you suggesting that we should treat stop signs as, by extension, give ways?

Thing with that is the number of people we attend crashes with who have collided with things they didn't see before they pulled out in front of. Hard to believe, but people actually look at things that their mind doesn't register, so they don't see, and there goes the basis of a crash.

Still a good idea for folk to go through red lights if they don't see anyone coming?

Kickaha

10th June 2011, 20:09

I watched a Munter on a motorcycle run a red tonight and miss being a hood ornament by SFA

He lanesplit to the front of the queue (I was about three back) It looked like rather than watch the lights in front he was watching the lights for the traffic coming across in front of us

When those lights changed red rather than wait for the green facing us he launched not realising we were still going to be under a red while traffic coming towards us got the green arrow

He made it halfway across before he just about got nailed and spent a little bit of time in the middle of the intersection with cars crossing about 1/2 a metre in front of him

rastuscat

10th June 2011, 20:44

Yes. I was on my way to work a few months back and stopped at a red light. The opposing lights changed, and the car ahead of me set off. Trouble is, he read it wrong, and was damn near smoked by a truck coming the other way with a green arrow.

Thing is, if they'd crashed, he'd have sworn his light was green. Coz he's human.

Anyway, I tracked him down later that day, and the thing is in court a few weeks from now.

Gremlin

11th June 2011, 02:10

steelphoenix

11th June 2011, 07:54

This used to be a problem for me, then they upgraded the sensors, and there was much rejoicing. :2thumbsup This may not have been the bike, but fact that my car was sometimes failing to register...

Roundabouts are fun... except when they're the Panmure or Royal Oak ones. I would posit more roundabouts would result in an increase in hood ornamentation, with people pulling in front of bikes (when we have right of way). Though I may be mixing correlation and causation. I need to analyse this... *geek*

Devil

11th June 2011, 08:48

I know of at least one intersection that often doesn't pick the bike up, even the big BMW. Then the problem is, if a car comes up behind, they cant get onto the sensor because i'm in the way.

I dont think it's reasonable at all to hit the ped button. What am I going to do? Push my 250kg bike across an uphill intersection?

I give it one minute, then as far as i'm concerned it's a stop sign.

jazfender

11th June 2011, 09:02

oneofsix

11th June 2011, 09:14

Cool, treat traffic lights like stop signs.

Trouble is, most treat stop signs like give ways, so are you suggesting that we should treat stop signs as, by extension, give ways?

Thing with that is the number of people we attend crashes with who have collided with things they didn't see before they pulled out in front of. Hard to believe, but people actually look at things that their mind doesn't register, so they don't see, and there goes the basis of a crash.

Still a good idea for folk to go through red lights if they don't see anyone coming?

rastuscat sounds like you are looking at the problem too much from the authoritarian angle. I only suggested treating red lights like stop signs. I don't generally agree with running red lights. Like with emergency vehicles, if any thing goes wrong it is still the scooter riders fault because they ran a red, if nothing goes wrong except being caught on a camera or observed by :Police: then they allowed to continue.
And yes we are all well aware of the see but don't perceive issue (SIDSYM) but peoples on only two wheels tend to take more care in ensuring the perceive.

oneofsix

11th June 2011, 09:18

"You pretty much have to learn to deal with it."

Traffic signal engineer Anton Swagernan said the city council was aware of the problem, but because the sensors were aimed to recognise vehicles with high magnetic fields there was not much that could be done.

--

Fuck that attitude.

+1 with technology that can strip you naked with out removing an item of clothing employed at airports I'm pretty darn sure a better solution can be found here. If they are unwilling to find or pay for the solution then suck it up and let those on two wheels proceed through a red when the way is clear

swbarnett

11th June 2011, 10:21

I think you are reading too much into a casual remark, you are probably too used to reading comments after spin doctors have vetted them. Read more into the 'look ahead' part of the remark and concentrate less on the 'zoom',
It was the 'look ahed' that I found a bit silly. This says to me that they don't check the side roads.

come on after all we are talk a scooter here :scooter: If they had I check the road is clear and then proceed it would be more palatable and mature speak but not student speak.
yeah, I agree that this is probably what they meant. Doesn't come across well to the general public though.

If the :Police: and council were to allow them to treat red lights as stop sign it would be a solution :yes:
Totally agree.

swbarnett

11th June 2011, 10:22

Still a good idea for folk to go through red lights if they don't see anyone coming?
If they are genuinely malfunctioning, as is the case here, then yes.

jazfender

11th June 2011, 10:28

+1 with technology that can strip you naked with out removing an item of clothing employed at airports I'm pretty darn sure a better solution can be found here. If they are unwilling to find or pay for the solution then suck it up and let those on two wheels proceed through a red when the way is clear

I wish engineers thought about engineering as opposed to money.

Learn to deal with it... that's some close-minded shit.

bogan

11th June 2011, 10:38

+1 with technology that can strip you naked with out removing an item of clothing employed at airports I'm pretty darn sure a better solution can be found here. If they are unwilling to find or pay for the solution then suck it up and let those on two wheels proceed through a red when the way is clear

It's easier than that, just reprogram them with timers. The problem is TPTB do not see this as a significant problem, so nobody is even looking for solutions, much less doing any cost/benefit analyses on them.

Owl

11th June 2011, 11:06

Wouldn't a few neodymium magnets attached, sort this issue? Or is that just an urban legend?

rastuscat

11th June 2011, 17:46

Why can't we just get rid of traffic lights, and stick some roundabouts in? Not only are they more fun to negotiate, polution will be less. Only place they don't work too well is when there is a heavy flow of traffic in one direction.

I wouldn't want to count the number of times I'm stuck at a light, often with others, while the green way is completely devoid of traffic, but the light thinks it's best to keep us idling... even at night. :mad:

Best idea I've seen in years. Remove all traffic controls, then tell people to sort it out for themself.

In a short space of time people would learn to do self preservation, instead of relying on rules that nobody complies with anyway.

It's been done in some towns in Europe, and has been shown to reduce crashes.

http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2004/05/20/traffic_design/print.html

rastuscat

11th June 2011, 17:50

rastuscat sounds like you are looking at the problem too much from the authoritarian angle.

Quite agree, to my own detriment.

Must learn to be a bit lawless. Not sure how that'll fit with the uniform, but it'll probably cause me less stress.

No problemo with constructive criticism, especially when I look in the mirror and agree with it.

Donuts 4 eva

bogan

11th June 2011, 18:01

Wouldn't a few neodymium magnets attached, sort this issue? Or is that just an urban legend?

Good question, the steel in a car changes the permittivity of the coil/electromagnet, which is the measure of resistance to forming a magnetic field. Although it seems conceivable like bringing your own will help, I think the superposition principal applies to electromagnetism, so while there is more of a feild there if you bring a magnet, the coil has to work just as hard to set one up as well.

In short, up to fuck all.

Mad-V2

11th June 2011, 19:18

If you go through the same lights every day and get stuck waiting alot, you can always glue the walkway button in, or poke a stick in it so that it stays in.
The lights will cycle through constantly that way. :2thumbsup

cheshirecat

11th June 2011, 19:33

Was taking a minicab along the A40 out of London one eve. The A40 is two lanes full of lights which is great if you can get them in sequence but purgatory otherwise (indeed purgatory all the time) and the geezer came up to a green and slammed on his brakes, causing the whites of the eyes of the driver behind to shine up like a lighthouse. I asked, 'asked' being a simplified translation, what he was doing and he said his brother was a cab driver and always ran the reds -to which there was no real answer at the time, but I sure as hell treated green lights a bit different on the bike around Acton.

haydes55

4th March 2012, 02:34

Serious problem with the :Police: solution. If you dismount a vehicle you are illegally parking that vehicle, breaking a law. secondly you are walking across a road within a few meters of a crossing and not using it, therefore you are jaywalking which is also illegal.

^ That is from my understanding of the law. If I parked a car on the road got out grabbed my mail from the letterbox then drove off I would be breaking the law.

Flip

6th March 2012, 15:22

Best idea I've seen in years. Remove all traffic controls, then tell people to sort it out for themself.

In a short space of time people would learn to do self preservation, instead of relying on rules that nobody complies with anyway.

It's been done in some towns in Europe, and has been shown to reduce crashes.

http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2004/05/20/traffic_design/print.html

Won't ever happen here because of the revenue the Rozza and the Govt can make from the red light cameras.

Pixie

8th March 2012, 09:05

Easy fix: Lights that are known not to respond to scooters need to have their crossing buttons stuck in the "on" position with superglue.
This will need to be reapplied each time the "on" button is "repaired".

Swoop

15th March 2012, 13:00