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Torque
1st July 2005, 20:22
A few queries from a new pillion passenger on a GSXR1000, to all you well travelled back seat riders.
How does one stay on without slamming into the back of your partner when braking?
How do you stay on without lacing your whitened knuckes together and appearing a complete wuss at speed?
Any pointers would be greatly accepted and may increase my chances of actually being invited for a ride on the new K5! Well maybe?/# :unsure:
Partner of Torque.

FROSTY
1st July 2005, 20:28
Relax relax relax. And keep in mind --Its up to the rider to ride to suit YOUR experience level

Mr Skid
1st July 2005, 20:29
I had a brief instance of brain fade once upon a time and accepted the opportunity to be wheelie ballast on an R1.

I found hanging onto the pilot with my left hand holding my right wrist prevented me going off the back of the seat, and allowed me to use my right hand to brace myself against the tank under braking.

Probably didn't look flash but.

bugjuice
1st July 2005, 20:35
don't brake as hard and take longer slowing/braking-distances..??
or, could ask 'er at back to put her/his hands on the tank to help support themselves during braking, or if you're in town and doing a lot of stop/starts..

Zed
1st July 2005, 20:38
A few queries from a new pillion passenger on a GSXR1000, to all you well travelled back seat riders.
How does one stay on without slamming into the back of your partner when braking?
How do you stay on without lacing your whitened knuckes together and appearing a complete wuss at speed?
Any pointers would be greatly accepted and may increase from chances of actually being invited for a ride on the new K5! Well maybe?/# :unsure:
Partner of Torque.Those bikes aren't especially made for pillion passenger comfort, don't let the seat and passenger pegs fool you! However, if you insist on riding it I would suggest the owner invest in an aftermarket grab rail or something for you to hold on to. :pinch:

http://www.performancemotorcycleparts.co.uk/images/accessories/renntec/grab_rails/grab3_b.jpg (http://www.performancemotorcycleparts.com/index.htm?content=http%3A//www.performancemotorcycleparts.co.uk/accessories_pages/renntec_grab_rails.htm)

Torque
1st July 2005, 20:48
thanks for that.. seems these sports bike designers have passenger comfort right up there with number plate visability (a pain in the butt, but they have to be seen to make an effort)

Slim
1st July 2005, 21:07
Put your hands on the riders waist & lean forward into them a bit. This will assist you to get used to leaning through corners too - keep yourself in line with the rider at all times.

Look over their shoulder, if you can, so you can see what's coming and be ready for the next corner or any possible braking situations.

When it looks like you're going to brake, reach your hands forward and brace them on the tank, holding yourself away from the rider.

Use your thigh muscles to grip the riders hips, which will also assist in braking situations.

Ask the rider to take it a bit easier while you get used to it.

If there's a grab rail behind you, you might find hanging onto that will help you out (but I prefer the above options, personally).

Good luck & enjoy. :)

Joni
1st July 2005, 21:15
When it looks like you're going to brake, reach your hands forward and brace them on the tank, holding yourself away from the rider.
Yeah Slim - I do this too, I cross my fingers on the tank... works well.

Try and stay relaxed, move with the rider, but I think its all been said before.

Have fun
:ride:

Torque
1st July 2005, 21:17
Thanks Slim, I'm new to this game and not being in control is a little daunting, but the thought of throwing my man into a position that means He can't control the bike we're riding scares the sweet be-jeebers out of me!! and this is all about having fun?
The grab rail ain't gonna happen cos that would spoil the beautiful lines (yeah I'm quoting that) haha.. thanks anyway for all the pointers.. bound to be some stuff in there that i'll be chanting to myself as we flash through the waikato countryside.
partner of Torque.

XTC
1st July 2005, 21:20
Thanks Slim, I'm new to this game and not being in control is a little daunting, but the thought of throwing my man into a position that means He can't control the bike we're riding scares the sweet be-jeebers out of me!! and this is all about having fun?
The grab rail ain't gonna happen cos that would spoil the beautiful lines (yeah I'm quoting that) haha.. thanks anyway for all the pointers.. bound to be some stuff in there that i'll be chanting to myself as we flash through the waikato countryside.
partner of Torque.
Get your own bike - Problem solved. No need to thank me.....

Slim
1st July 2005, 21:25
Thanks Slim, I'm new to this game and not being in control is a little daunting, but the thought of throwing my man into a position that means He can't control the bike we're riding scares the sweet be-jeebers out of me!! and this is all about having fun?
The grab rail ain't gonna happen cos that would spoil the beautiful lines (yeah I'm quoting that) haha.. thanks anyway for all the pointers.. bound to be some stuff in there that i'll be chanting to myself as we flash through the waikato countryside.
partner of Torque.
I started out pillioning before I finally got in control myself, and I still enjoy going pillion when I get the chance, especially with experienced riders who go a hell of a lot faster than I do when I'm riding my own bike - nice to get the speed rush without the responsibility!

The tip about gripping with your thighs is right up there behind bracing on the tank - you'll get to the stage where you can hold on with your thighs & rest your hands on them & sort of sway around through the corners & sort of lean back when under brakes. That's what I do now.

Like anything, it's practice, practice, practice, but definitely get Torque to slow down a bit while you get used to it.

Keystone19
1st July 2005, 21:43
Use your thigh muscles to grip the riders hips

Yeah, I like this bit best...

(Mind you, only if it's a guy)

Redstar
1st July 2005, 21:55
the best kind of pillion is someone who adds value? they are usually a fellow biker and understands the principles of gravity due to thier own experience.
I recall a helpfull girl who everytime leaned, countered that lean with a oposite vertical action to save my life. Whearas another would load the back wheel at just the right time to increase the cornering traction.
the first looked like an angel the latter was became my wife no1 :devil2:

Sensei
1st July 2005, 22:34
GSXR1000's come out with a single seat pod for a reason No Pillion's ! There is no good way to ride on the back of any sports bike now adays so just hold on to the waist keep close to the rider & pray . :whistle:

SixPackBack
1st July 2005, 22:49
Yeah, I like this bit best...

(Mind you, only if it's a guy)

better get mr keystone on a bike real soon......frisky and 19!LOL

Keystone19
1st July 2005, 23:18
better get mr keystone on a bike real soon......frisky and 19!LOL

Well I'm trying, but I can't see it anytime soon. WIll have to make do in the meantime... :devil2:

SixPackBack
1st July 2005, 23:25
Well I'm trying, but I can't see it anytime soon. WIll have to make do in the meantime... :devil2:

Stay as an owner operator

Beemer
3rd July 2005, 16:07
I have always loved being a pillion - probably because I get the chance to go faster than I am capable of riding, and don't have to pay attention to the road surface, other traffic, etc!

I was taken over to the Wairarapa once by a friend and she said afterwards that she had forgotten I was there, I was such a good pillion! My husband says I do all the right things - lean the same way he does, not thump him too hard when he goes too fast!

I think education is the key - tell your pillion how you would like them to act. Don't forget that many may never have been on a bike before so when you lean, they instinctively lean the opposite way. And when you are pillioning, ensure the rider knows when you are getting on and off (NOT in the middle of a corner...) and try not to move around too much. If I need to change position slightly, I wait until a straight stretch of road before doing so. Learn a few signals too, in case your pillion needs to tell you something while on the road - simple things like toilet breaks, drink, slow down, speed up, etc!

c4.
3rd July 2005, 17:03
Ahh Pillion....
I've only ever been the pillion twice on-road, facing forwards.
However I've covered Ironman type events many, many times facing backwards, carrying a camera (big, bout 10kgs) + a bag with batteries and tapes worn on my front (bout 8kgs)
WHAT a RUSH.
You meet the bike riders (usually 3-5 of them) you have a chat about the footage you're after, you assess their bikes, demeanor, knowledge, experience,etc. Then you pick/are picked. Then you go to sleep early coz at 6am you are going to hop on a 1000cc plus m/c (facing backwards) with someone you hope can do your positioning for you.
You start off not knowing this riders technique at all. Thats usually the
trippy-est part.
The only thing you can do as pillion, when you cant look forward is to be completly neutral as possible, don't fight the turns, become one rider thru touching backs. We get up to speeds of 100 + something ish? :whistle: :whistle: (Who said ton???) The hard part is doing you job (filming) without fu8king up the rider too much, and still getting the product out that will get you the next job.
I think you should all find someone you trust, and ask them to take you around the block facing backwards(no hands remember), then you will know the art of the perfect pillion.( Just a note,have special foot rigs so that we don't need hands, so don't be heros)
Or don't if its against the law(never asked, never been told)

Beemer
3rd July 2005, 17:11
Wow, C4, you get my respect! Whenever I see those guys covering cycle races and similar from the back of bikes, I think "shit, how do they do it?" I am happy to stand on outside corners and get showered with rocks and mud covering car rallying, but I'd think twice about this kind of work! You certainly wouldn't want a tosser for a rider who tried to drop you off the back at every opportunity. You're a god... :yeah:

yungatart
3rd July 2005, 17:15
I only ever pillion. Make sure you trust the rider, relax and enjoy. I often sing! I have a terrible voice and am banned from singing even in the shower. With a helmet on ( and no intercom) I can sing to my hearts content and no one ever complains! I don't usually bother to hold on, just rest my hands on my knees- then if you need to grab on in a hurry his waist ( or whatever) isn't too far away.

c4.
3rd July 2005, 17:31
"You certainly wouldn't want a tosser for a rider who tried to drop you off the back at every opportunity."
Yeah beemer, I try to weed out the heros before the race.
Usually there are 3-5 shooters on the bikes, so as the senior, I try to talk to the senior of the bikers, and we 'negotiate' the best matches.
Unfortunately the smartest thing to do is to put the best rider with the least best shooter and vice versa.
Still, I only have good stories about my riders, :ride: they've all been great.(had the odd bike probs but)
Now chopper pilots are a different story

Beemer
3rd July 2005, 17:41
Now you're talking, C4! Hanging out of choppers is HUGE fun! But then snapping a mob of sheep released for a photo shoot (they swarmed all around a large hotel being moved from Masterton to Martinborough) is probably a little different to following a race!

MSTRS
3rd July 2005, 17:42
From the rider's perspective, the ideal pillion should do nothing to 'announce their presence'. Obviously the type of bike will make a difference in terms of performance, but apart from that, the rider should be almost unaware that there is a body on the back. As a pillion, imagine that you are a sack of potatoes & you can't go wrong. There is nothing worse than a 'helpful' pillion.

c4.
3rd July 2005, 17:43
Hey, you're doing it.
Its all good.
They're all good days, some are just better than others.

DingDong
3rd July 2005, 18:00
From the rider's perspective, the ideal pillion should do nothing to 'announce their presence'. Obviously the type of bike will make a difference in terms of performance, but apart from that, the rider should be almost unaware that there is a body on the back. As a pillion, imagine that you are a sack of potatoes & you can't go wrong. There is nothing worse than a 'helpful' pillion.
100% correct, If the pillion is not experienced i make them wrap their arms right around me so they cant move, ballance is everything and if it helped I'd even turn their helmet aroud so they could'nt see :yes:
My brother lent the opposite way to me once... just to be a pain in the arse, we crashed on a straight gravel road, it must have looked funny... i didnt care, It was his bike. :Punk:

myvice
3rd July 2005, 20:36
My son is an excellent pillon, totaly relaxed and easy to forget he's there, bit too easy sometimes.
But some tips, if you have to move dont shuffle, put even pressure on both foot pegs to slide back.
Try to look through the corner (bit hard to explain here, but your other 1/2 will be able to), the same as when your riding, this will help with the bikes stability when cornering.
My son, wife, and I tell every one else, "If you arn't happy, need something, whatever, give me a good HARD wack and I'll pull over as soon as I can"
And thay do, a soft tap means little through leather and armor so make it count!
And relax.

chickybabe
4th July 2005, 16:22
There is a definately a technique to being a pillion. I don't have my own but live on the back of a mates bike. I find that it all depends on the speed that your going. I am big on the stretching out and resting my hands flat on the tank to prevent you from squashing the driver. secondly it really does help to peak over their shoulder and see whats coming...like red lights and stuff. I find the grab rail useful around town when breeking but I wont touch it at high speed. The main thing is to have a play around and after a while you'll get into a groove with it.

Beemer
4th July 2005, 16:37
I'm pretty short so I don't have much other option than holding on around my husband's waist ("oh, if I must!") or resting my hands on his thighs (he likes that!) because I can only just reach the tank - and that would only be with one hand. Grab rails are usually behind the pillion and I find my arms ache after a very short time. I relax so much as a pillion I have been known to fall asleep! My husband knows when this happens because every time we go over a bump, he gets thumped by my helmet!

I love being a pillion on roads that I am not that confident on because I get an idea of how to ride them myself and I also get to see the scenery - I don't do that much when riding over the Paekakariki Hill on my own bike!

Eurygnomes
4th July 2005, 16:53
I haven't pillioned much but I LOVE it!!! Just recently a mate took me out through town on his GS1200 (?) and it was the first time on the back of his bike. Apparenlty, I'm a versatile pillion (who knew!?). I always make sure to tell the rider that I'm not a 17-year-old boy, nor does he need to behave like one to impress me. :) And I've learnt to grip with the thighs while putting hands out and around on the tank. I love leaning with the rider - feeling the bike a little through them (no responsibility - all fun) - and learning as I go.

I found on this last ride i could actually rest my elbows on my thighs as well. I hope this doesn't make me sound as though I have gorilla arms! :) It did provide a little extra stability, but I only needed it on the straights.

When they pull away from the lights, I found that my hands naturally came off the tank and around their chest/waist :eek: but that it wans't a problem for the rider. When we stopped, if he shuffled his arse - I realised it was probably because I'd slunk down on the seat and was jamming his, er, delicate parts ;) into the tank...so took the hint and shuffled back myself.

Probably the more body contact - the better (doncha hate that?) as you can get more feel as to what the body/bike is doing and instinctively do the same. But yeah - I also always ask what the rider wants me to do on his bike (minds out of gutters please), and how they'd like ME to behave - as I realise it's a privilige for me to be on their bike...

...and sorry to all the angels who take pillions on a regular basis...I just haven't ever pillioned with a chick. Yet. So no sexist comments intended - merely observation. {end PC comment}

Beemer
4th July 2005, 17:15
...and sorry to all the angels who take pillions on a regular basis...I just haven't ever pillioned with a chick. Yet. So no sexist comments intended - merely observation. {end PC comment}

I had to laugh at that - but you'll probably find you pillion in a different way when you're on the back with a female rider, I know I do! With my husband, he likes my arms around his waist and I can rest my hands/forearms on his thighs - and of course I grip him with my thighs when he's braking. But when I'm on the back with a female, I am very careful about where I put my hands - don't want to inadvertently grab their boobies or tickle their thighs! And I tend not to sit as close as I do to my husband - feels a bit weird otherwise!

I've never taken a pillion - the RG wasn't really cut out for travelling two-up and the only person I'd probably take would be my husband, and he's usually on his own bike. If one of our bikes broke down somewhere, I'd still let him ride and I'd sit on the back even if it was my bike. I've never really had any desire to learn to take a pillion - probably because I don't consider myself a particularly experienced rider and think it's safer that way!

Biff
4th July 2005, 17:24
Pillions should never relax too much, it's important that they watch the road ahead and flex those stomach muscled in an attempt to avoid butting the rider, and of course falling off the back. Relaxing a bit helps absorb some of the momentum creating by accelerating and de-accelerating, but they it must be controlled in order to cater for the absorption of momentum.

One hand around the riders waist, the other palm pressed against the tank helps under heavy braking - but the bottom line is that riders must learn to adjust their riding technique when carrying pillions:

1. Brake a lot earlier than you normally would.
2. Change up the gears a lot earlier.
3. Ride smoothly - no hard acceleration/de-acceleration.

The best bikes for pillion riders are the ones with hold bard at the back of the seat, behind the pillion. The pillion can then cross their hands behind their backs while holding onto these bars, making it nearly impossible to fall off the back, even under the harshest of acceleration, and to assist with avoiding disappearing up the riders arse while under heavy braking.

Eurygnomes
6th July 2005, 14:48
Isn't crossing ones arms across ones back bad for ones shoulders (dear god, I hope Hitcher doesn't pull me up on my lack of apostrophising)? I know I have very dodgy shoulders at the best of times - they don't dislocate so much as overstretch - and even if I practice this at my desk it hurts after a very short time. When you add the jerking of stopping and starting, I'd be in agony. I definitely prefer the around the waist/against the tank option...personal choice though.

But yeah - I agree with the stomach muscles...I went for an hour long pillion last night and I must have been doing that, because my abs are achey today.

FROSTY
6th July 2005, 15:08
actually I usually give first time pillions a lil speech along the lines of "trust me totally or be totally convinced you are gonna die"
Sounds weird but it seems to have the effect of making them behave in a predictable manner.
I think that is the number one most important thing a pillion can do -Be predictable. Possibly Im being arrogant but theres nothing a pillion has done that has really ever bothered me -leaning the wrong way -sat bolt upright -leaned in too early -You pick up on their way of thinking early on and ride to compensate for it.
The only time it has concerned me is when my ex wife changed her mind mid corner and sat back up -very worrying.
Mind you im currently pretty well spoiled having baby bikie as my regular pillion--he just plain reads my mind and follows what i do.

Beemer
6th July 2005, 15:17
I find grab bars really uncomfortable because I don't have very long arms and they always seem to be that little bit too far back or low down. Besides, there's nothing quite like snuggling up to my husband and wrapping my arms around his waist on a long ride! He will often reach up and give my hand a squeeze - and no, that's not because it has strayed... :whistle:

T.I.E
6th July 2005, 15:32
Relax relax relax. And keep in mind --Its up to the rider to ride to suit YOUR experience level

totally agree, if your scared, then let the rider know. they need to slowly get you into it. to fast to slow what ever it is let them know. it's meant to be an experience not a roller coaster ride.
pillions should be enjoying it.
a happy pillion is great for motorcycles. its also a potentional rider in the waiting.
if you scare them first thought is " i'm never gonna get back on a bike ever again"
it that what we want?
so tell the rider what scares you. it's your life in there hands. so at least enjoy it.

loosebruce
7th July 2005, 00:18
God knows what you call em, but i remember seeing something that resembled a MX kidney belt that the rider wore and it had to hand grips either side for the pillion to hold onto, thought it'd be a good idea at the time, but i never really take passengers as a rule, even if it's not my fault i dont want anyone else getting hurt on my bike. So i lessen the risk and dont take em. And if i do, can you say nanabruce.
Everything else worth saying about pillioning has prolly already been said, but hope you enjoy it more with the tips given.

Squiggles
7th July 2005, 09:56
i tell them before they get on to hold on around my waist and to keep it that way around town. Otherwise she tends to relax and then squeezes me rather tightly when i speed up again.... :no:

Torque
7th July 2005, 10:18
Thanks guys.. it's nice to get both sides of the story. As we live in Raglan.. the tips about nice gentle motorway riding aren't really relevant, all rides start with a twisty roller coaster up over the deviation, which is, putting it mildly.. quite a work out. The K3 was a compact beast and being told to hold on tight was useless information as most of the ride I was trying to get away from him!! That is.. trying to avoid slamming his tender bits into the tank!
However the tip about reaching through and bracing one hand against the tank is a pearler.. kept my body close but not too close! Just hope the wrists don't give out!
In the past I've pillioned on bikes with a grab rail.. or a sissy bar.. heck one even had arm rests (yuck!) but these sports bikes are quite a different story.
Your body just seems to be in a weird position to feel in any control at all.. except when your travelling at speed in a straight line or around long smooth corners. But as you guys have said, it's up to the rider to take things a little easier, especially whilst manoeuvring about town.
Fingers crossed, with all this new knowledge, Torque will wack on the seat of the new K5 and invite me to join him sometime soon.. :yes: I'll keep you posted. Torque's partner.

Biff
7th July 2005, 12:23
I've never heard of crossing your hands behind you being bad for your shoulders. I've never had a any complaints from pillions that do it either. You don't have to have them there the whole time, especially when on longer, smooth journeys. But for braking, and a particularly acceleration, there's no better/safer place to put your hands IMO.

mikey
8th July 2005, 12:07
been pillion once.

back of trash gsxr1000.

shouldn say pillion more ballast.

i decided that if i fell off the back of bike i was bringng the scrawny cunt with me.

back to subject - how to be a good pillion,

HOLD ON, an brace ya self when breaking, could be fatal otherwise.

vifferman
8th July 2005, 12:17
You don't have to have them there the whole time, especially when on longer, smooth journeys. But for braking, and a particularly acceleration, there's no better/safer place to put your hands IMO.
I'd agree for braking, but having done a lot of pillioneering myself, the grab handles are generally too close to you to let you brace your self for acceleration.

You're right about not having to hold on tight the whole time - the vifferbabe doesn't hang on much, even though she's a relative newcomer to being a pillion. I think that's because I accelerate and brake as gently/progressively as I can, and because the Ventura rack on the back helps to reassure her she's not likely to fall off (even on the VTR, which had a sticker that said "Abandon hope, all ye who perch here!" )

Something that really helps is that when we're on a road with tight corners, she gets as close to me as possible, and I move forward a bit, to help centralise the mass. The rest of the time, we just sit so we're not going to get cramped.

mstriumph
14th July 2005, 07:34
I prefer not to pillion - but if I have to carry one I agree predictability is the biggie. I ask that they settle themselves whichever way they feel most comfortable but as closely against my back as possible. That way I can feel directly what they are doing and compensate as necessary. Then again, my bikes aren't as quick or responsive as most of the bikes here so my probs in this area are probably less?
actually I usually give first time pillions a lil speech along the lines of "trust me totally or be totally convinced you are gonna die"
Sounds weird but it seems to have the effect of making them behave in a predictable manner.
I think that is the number one most important thing a pillion can do -Be predictable. Possibly Im being arrogant but theres nothing a pillion has done that has really ever bothered me -leaning the wrong way -sat bolt upright -leaned in too early -You pick up on their way of thinking early on and ride to compensate for it.
The only time it has concerned me is when my ex wife changed her mind mid corner and sat back up -very worrying.
Mind you im currently pretty well spoiled having baby bikie as my regular pillion--he just plain reads my mind and follows what i do.