Nigger or Digger?

[oneofsix]

great quote from the article Which sums up the problem nicely.

"It's not a problem with coloured people, it's the people in power creating the problem. Sod their political correctness and sod human rights," said Mervyn Hallam.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/5136009/Dambusters-dog-bone-of-contention
If the dogs name was Nigger then that is what it should be. Lets start taking the sting out of the word nigger by using it in more positive contexts and the name of a hero's dog is a good positive context to start with.

[rickstv]

I inherited a cat called Nigger.Still have him.
All was ok till I took the varnint to the vet. She asked me the name of the cat in a crowded waiting room. I could not bring myself to say "Nigger":nono: so I said Niggs instead.People still looked sideways at me though.

I probably would not ever call an animal 'Nigger". On the other hand, the dog in the movie should keep the name he was given for historical reasons.
Rick.

[Banditbandit]

great quote from the article Which sums up the problem nicely.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/5136009/Dambusters-dog-bone-of-contention
If the dogs name was Nigger then that is what it should be. Lets start taking the sting out of the word nigger by using it in more positive contexts and the name of a hero's dog is a good positive context to start with.

I have no problem for the movie - that was the dog's name ... But I don't believe we can "take the sting out of the word" - it will always be a derogatory temr for Black people ...


I inherited a cat called Nigger.Still have him.
All was ok till I took the varnint to the vet. She asked me the name of the cat in a crowded waiting room. I could not bring myself to say "Nigger":nono: so I said Niggs instead.People still looked sideways at me though.

I probably would not ever call an animal 'Nigger". On the other hand, the dog in the movie should keep the name he was given for historical reasons.
Rick.

Ngā mihi ki a koe. I agree.

[pzkpfw]

Simple commercial reality is that it'd hurt the movie, and that's a real issue.

Anyone who cares about the history, would know the real name, anyway.

[JimO]

- it will always be a derogatory temr for Black people ...





they call themselves that all the time, i dont see the problem

[scissorhands]

Exactly. No one should have a problem with my pets name either - Honky Maggot

Only a backwards white devil slave master would take offence with that name

[Crasherfromwayback]

they call themselves that all the time, i dont see the problem

The question I have for you though...is would you call a bunch of p fried mongrel mob members 'niggers' to their faces?

I somehow doubt it. There's your answer on the word.

Plus 1 for the film though.

[Swoop]

The last editorial of Classic Wings Downunder magazine had a very apt commentary on this very issue. Why re-write history to suit our current thought processes?
Where does the line get drawn?
The swastica occasionally gets left off of german warbird aircraft and the owner still claims that the aircraft is "fully authentic".


I fully hope that Nigger is shown drinking back pints of beer! Apparently he loved the stuff and would weave his way back to the accomodation building leaving a yellow trail behind him.

[scumdog]

The question I have for you though...is would you call a bunch of p fried mongrel mob members 'niggers' to their faces?

I somehow doubt it. There's your answer on the word.



I'm not sure of the relevance??

But...but..but they still call each other nigger - so why the double standard??:blink:

[Scuba_Steve]

I find it quite offensive they've changed the name of the dog. If Nigger was his name, Nigger his name should be!.
I'm sure Stephen Fry would take offense to be known as Steph especially if shown in a movie

[admenk]

Is Murray Deaker in the film :innocent:

Unfortunately, there are very few truly historicaly correct warfilms out there - that's why the Americans won the war on their own, no German soldier could shoot straight (whereas every French resistance member was a crackshot) and every British officer had a plum in his mouth.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm not sure of the relevance??

But...but..but they still call each other nigger - so why the double standard??:blink:

Well the man was saying he doesn't see the problem with the word Nigger, but I'm saying I'm willing to bet he wouldn't use it.

And despite you and he saying 'they' call themselves that, not many in my experience do. Maybe in the USA. "Wazzup my Nigga?" But here...rarely.

[oneofsix]

Well the man was saying he doesn't see the problem with the word Nigger, but I'm saying I'm willing to bet he wouldn't use it.

And despite you and he saying 'they' call themselves that, not many in my experience do. Maybe in the USA. "Wazzup my Nigga?" But here...rarely.

Using the word in relation to a person might be a problem. Using nigger in relation to a dog when that is what the dogs real names was, I don't see why we should make this a problem. I am amused by your use of the a spelling instead of er, is this meant to somehow sanitize the word?

[The Pastor]

who gives a toss

[Crasherfromwayback]

Using the word in relation to a person might be a problem. Using nigger in relation to a dog when that is what the dogs real names was, I don't see why we should make this a problem. I am amused by your use of the a spelling instead of er, is this meant to somehow sanitize the word?

I fully agree about the dog side of things. And I used that spelling, as I think you'll find it's how the Afro Americans would spell it, and it was in that context I was using it as an example.

[admenk]

who gives a toss

Stephen Fry by the sound of it.

[scumdog]

Well the man was saying he doesn't see the problem with the word Nigger, but I'm saying I'm willing to bet he wouldn't use it.

And despite you and he saying 'they' call themselves that, not many in my experience do. Maybe in the USA. "Wazzup my Nigga?" But here...rarely.

Come down to our cells - that expression you quoted is quite often used.:yes:


Even if they've never met before.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Come down to our cells - that expression you quoted is quite often used.:yes:


Even if they've never met before.

Shit...I didn't think you had any darker skinned peeps down that way!

[Brian d marge]

this will fix the problem ....
240674

Stephen

it is actually very offensive to a lot of Americans ,,Ive had this conversation with my American customers .....

[Scuba_Steve]

it is actually very offensive to a lot of Americans ,,Ive had this conversation with my American customers .....

were they 'white' americans? they seem to get more offended than the 'black' americans who are "supposed to be offended"

[Brian d marge]

were they 'white' americans? they seem to get more offended than the 'black' americans who are "supposed to be offended"

yes , but both said similar ......

[Jantar]

The question I have for you though...is would you call a bunch of p fried mongrel mob members 'niggers' to their faces?

I somehow doubt it. There's your answer on the word.

Plus 1 for the film though.

Why should we call mongrel mobe members niggers? They aren't from Niger or Nigeria, and that is is where the term nigger came from. It had nothing to do with colour or race, but was entirely about the origion of the slaves. It eventually came to be used for all african americans, but I've never heard it being applied to any race outside africa.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Why should we call mongrel mobe members niggers? They aren't from Niger or Nigeria, and that is is where the term nigger came from. It had nothing to do with colour or race, but was entirely about the origion of the slaves. It eventually came to be used for all african americans, but I've never heard it being applied to any race outside africa.

Can't recall saying we should.

[admenk]

Why should we call mongrel mob members niggers?

I've always wanted to point out to a Black Power member that they're not actually black, but I'm not that brave...or stupid.

[oneofsix]

I've always wanted to point out to a Black Power member that they're not actually black, but I'm not that brave...or stupid.

To quote the captain of a river steamer, who was Maori himself "are you not proud of your own race that you have to adopt the speech and mannerisms of the American gangs?". That would not be word for word but you get the idea.

[Scuba_Steve]

I've always wanted to point out to a Black Power member that they're not actually black, but I'm not that brave...or stupid.

na, they're talking about their jackets, it's those black leather jackets they wear that give them their "power" :lol:

[MisterD]

Stephen Fry by the sound of it.

Since when did SF become the ultimate authority on everything?


Daily Mash (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/everyone-to-run-everything-by-stephen-fry-200910192148/)

This is a fairly mild revision though, given that Hollywood's putting up the money I'm surprised that Barnes Wallis hasn't become American or B17's substituted for Lancs...and I'm more annoyed about the concept of "full sized replica Lancasters made in China".

[oneofsix]

na, they're talking about their jackets, it's those black leather jackets they wear that give them their "power" :lol:

Doesn't matter if it is themselves or the jackets they are referring to, why can they use the word as they choose but everyone else has to pussy foot around it.
Would it we worse to walk up to one and say, "that is a nice nigger you have there", referring to the jacket of course.

[Scuba_Steve]

:Offtopic: Blatant sort of hijack here but I just saw this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5134366/TSB-pulls-racist-radio-ads) & it kinda fits in with this thread

TSB Bank has slammed a suggestion a series of radio ads it was running was racist or discriminatory.

However, the bank has now pulled the ads, which claim "you always talk to a New Zealander in person" when you phone the bank, following media enquiries about its meaning.

Chief executive Kevin Murphy said the ads had been running since October last year and there had never before been any suggestion there were racist or discriminatory undertones.

"The advertisement was attempting to convey our contact centre is based in New Zealand and the `in person' reference related to calls being answered by a `real person', as opposed to callers being presented with a maze of menu options," Mr Murphy said.

"The notion the advertisement reflects some sort of underlying racism is as absurd as it is offensive – it's completely at odds with our beliefs, values and more importantly, our behaviour."

Nevertheless, following the enquiry by the Sunday Star-Times – which included questions such as: "What has the TSB got against non-New Zealanders?", and "Isn't the ad simply encouraging racism toward non-New Zealanders?" – the bank has pulled the ads off air.

"While we're uncertain the extent to which the view expressed by the Sunday Star-Times is reflective of its wider interpretation, to remove any possible concerns we will be replacing the advertisement," Mr Murphy said.

[oneofsix]

:
However, the bank has now pulled the ads, which claim "you always talk to a New Zealander in person" when you phone the bank, following media enquiries about its meaning.


and why didn't the media go after Z for the same sort of thing in their TV ads. Is this a selective media beat up? :gob:

[Crasherfromwayback]

.and I'm more annoyed about the concept of "full sized replica Lancasters made in China".

Don't fret, most of the guys building them are Kiwis. And they're to the number of rivets accurate apparently!

[superman]

Where's Billy T when ya need him!

[Crasherfromwayback]

He sucked a kumera.

[oneofsix]

The last editorial of Classic Wings Downunder magazine had a very apt commentary on this very issue. Why re-write history to suit our current thought processes?
Where does the line get drawn?
The swastica occasionally gets left off of german warbird aircraft and the owner still claims that the aircraft is "fully authentic".


I fully hope that Nigger is shown drinking back pints of beer! Apparently he loved the stuff and would weave his way back to the accomodation building leaving a yellow trail behind him.

I hope they retain the drunk dog, I look forward to what you describe as a bit of amusement. There could be a few problems with animal rights however as I can imagine the problems training a dog to act drunk and leave a 'yellow trail'.

[SpankMe]

My black cat's name is Kaffir and fuck Stephen Fry for trying to rewrite history. :mad:

[Banditbandit]

Why should we call mongrel mobe members niggers?

Actually the Mob call the Black Power "Niggers" - and the Black Power call the MMM "Monkeys" ...

[awayatc]

and we all know how politally correct they are.........

Niger in latin means/black....

whats the f**n problem?

calling a spade a spade not good enough anymore?

[Crasherfromwayback]

and we all know how politally correct they are.........

Niger in latin means/black....

whats the f**n problem?

calling a spade a spade not good enough anymore?

Do you call dark skinned people Niggers to their face?

[awayatc]

nah..... call them colour challenged

[HenryDorsetCase]

DLIkM4wvcC8

[HenryDorsetCase]

rWOn1dFmFds

[tigertim20]

The question I have for you though...is would you call a bunch of p fried mongrel mob members 'niggers' to their faces?

.

I wouldnt say anything to them!

[Maha]

Why did God give negros a good singing voice?
Cos he fucked up thier hair!

[Pussy]

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Uwk6r8TJD2U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[JimO]

when i was a kid our neighbous had a black lab called nigger, we heard him calling "NIGGER, NIGGER come here ya bastard" all the time

[onearmedbandit]

Actually the Mob call the Black Power "Niggers" -

That they do, and not in the 'brotherhood' way either.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Don't fret, most of the guys building them are Kiwis. And they're to the number of rivets accurate apparently!

FLYING replicas?

I would totally crack a woody for that. Best part of the stupid Royale with cheese wedding.

[Crasherfromwayback]

FLYING replicas?

I would totally crack a woody for that. Best part of the stupid Royale with cheese wedding.

Not sure mate. One of the guys that used to spanner for us is building them. I'll ask him next time he's in.

[Woodman]

Should i change my name to Digel ??

[Pussy]

FLYING replicas?



Highly unlikely!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Highly unlikely!

I would think so too, but knowing what they build...I guess you never know if they wouldn't build one that flies. Peter Jackson is involved in all sorts of vintage aviation restoration and replication, as I'm sure you probably know.

[Woodman]

Was talking to a guy that new a guy that had an uncle building one in marsterton I think. They are full size but with electric motors to turn the props. Smoke effects and sound effects will fill in the gaps. But yeah a flying rep would be great to see.

Not long finished reading a book that is just memoirs etc from the people involved in the dambuster thing, including those living below the dam. Bloody great read.

[jaffaonajappa]

Funny thread...

Niggers means people from Nigeria only? Wake up!

No one calls anyone a nigger to their face in NZ? LOL. Where are you sheltering? - Its quite common in my workplace - and yes its multicultural. We have nancy boy Honkies, fresh coconuts, and dumbarses - the dumbarses call each other niggers. Take a walk down the beach at Maketu one day...or visit the mill at Kawerau. Or go shopping on any given Sunday at the otara markets. We are a thick skinned culture underneath it all - just with some PC bullshit on top coming out of our damn cities and permeating our media.

The TSB removing that add. Very weak of them - as a 'kiwi bank' (sic) Id have hoped for a stronger stance....but then perhaps the banks have led the modern PC changes after all?...along with our lawyers. ("Im awfully sorry to have to foreclose on you, if theres anything I can do to help just let me know....")

Hollywood making a movie that glorifies war. How dare they not make it realistic. Hope they bring up the lack of medications and food shortages on the home front?

[ducatilover]

Was talking to a guy that new a guy that had an uncle building one in marsterton I think. They are full size but with electric motors to turn the props. Smoke effects and sound effects will fill in the gaps. But yeah a flying rep would be great to see.

Not long finished reading a book that is just memoirs etc from the people involved in the dambuster thing, including those living below the dam. Bloody great read.
Built by Antique Aviation in Wellington. They build exact replica beasts, ever seen an Antique Aviation show? Wonder where the planes come from? They build EVERYTHING on them from scratch, engine blocks, the lot. Huge money is invested in tooling systems and what-not. My old man has worked with them and I can tell you what they do is absolutely fascinating. :2thumbsup:2thumbsup

[Owl]

Do you call dark skinned people Niggers to their face?

The "gook" at work calls me nigger all the time and I don't get upset.......In fact I find it rather amusing. Nothin funnier than a Korean saying "Fuck you nigger!":lol:

But then of course, I'm white:blink:

[Usarka]

The "gook" at work calls me nigger all the time and I don't get upset.......In fact I find it rather amusing. Nothin funnier than a Korean saying "Fuck you nigger!":lol:



I hear that on the BluRay edition of Platoon they changed all instances of Gook because it was offensive to asians and vietnamese in particular.

ps - of course they didn't

[jazfender]

Lets start taking the sting out of the word nigger by using it in more positive contexts and the name of a hero's dog is a good positive context to start with.

Are you justified in feeling the "sting" of the word or are you speaking for others?

[oneofsix]

Are you justified in feeling the "sting" of the word or are you speaking for others?
I don't feel the sting at all. I was referring to others that do. Just like those that don't like negro but will accept black, when in fact negro is just black in another language. For me it would be more the debate over pakeha, it might have once meant something nasty in some iwi but now in NZ it just refers to someone of european ancestry

[jaffaonajappa]

pakeha, it might have once meant something nasty in some iwi but now in NZ it just refers to someone of european ancestry

No, it doesnt simply refer to European ancestry.
The word should be stripped out - banned.

'kiwi' defines most NZ'ers of european descent far better than 'pakeha'.
some of us have never even sat in a canoe.

[Robert Taylor]

The question I have for you though...is would you call a bunch of p fried mongrel mob members 'niggers' to their faces?

I somehow doubt it. There's your answer on the word.

Plus 1 for the film though.

Inscribed on the bullets headed in their direction would be my fantasy.

My vote is for total historical accuracy

[Indiana_Jones]

The cabin boy was Flipper, he was a fuckin' nigger!
He stuffed his ass with a broken glass, and circumcised the skipper!

-Indy

[Crasherfromwayback]

Inscribed on the bullets headed in their direction would be my fantasy.

My vote is for total historical accuracy

And we agree on something!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Built by Antique Aviation in Wellington. They build exact replica beasts, ever seen an Antique Aviation show? Wonder where the planes come from? They build EVERYTHING on them from scratch, engine blocks, the lot. Huge money is invested in tooling systems and what-not. My old man has worked with them and I can tell you what they do is absolutely fascinating. :2thumbsup:2thumbsup


I knew that he had built flying replica WW1 planes (housed in Blenheim?) and if you can do that, a Lancaster is only a question of scale, and money, the concept is the same.

and Jackson has plenty of money.....

Sad to see that B-17 crashed yesterday :( at least the crew (amazingly!) escaped. there was nothing left of the middle of it!

[ducatilover]

I knew that he had built flying replica WW1 planes (housed in Blenheim?) and if you can do that, a Lancaster is only a question of scale, and money, the concept is the same.

and Jackson has plenty of money.....

Sad to see that B-17 crashed yesterday :( at least the crew (amazingly!) escaped. there was nothing left of the middle of it!
He's build plenty, well, the chaps funded by him have built many planes. Sopworth Camel, SE5's and quite a few more. Amazing pieces of machinery, you'd be surprised how many of the planes in the Antiques show that fly are built by them and a few live in the Masterton Airport.

A Lancaster will be a rather large undertaking, but, I wouldn't be surprised if they built a working one. (I really hope they do, I'd love to see them in action!)

Can't get enough of those old buggers. I wish he would start knocking out a few F4U Corsairs :drool:


This'll tickle your fancy http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/

[jazfender]

Just like those that don't like negro but will accept black, when in fact negro is just black in another language. For me it would be more the debate over pakeha, it might have once meant something nasty in some iwi but now in NZ it just refers to someone of european ancestry

Kinda, but not really.

It's not the meaning of the word in a literal sense that causes offence. Most swear words refer to genitalia or bodily functions after all.

Pakeha would have more weight if it was used while they fucked us.

[Brian d marge]

He's build plenty, well, the chaps funded by him have built many planes. Sopworth Camel, SE5's and quite a few more. Amazing pieces of machinery, you'd be surprised how many of the planes in the Antiques show that fly are built by them and a few live in the Masterton Airport.

A Lancaster will be a rather large undertaking, but, I wouldn't be surprised if they built a working one. (I really hope they do, I'd love to see them in action!)

Can't get enough of those old buggers. I wish he would start knocking out a few F4U Corsairs :drool:


This'll tickle your fancy http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/
the plans are all on line
I started to draw the focker tri plane in 3d cad ..... must finish it some time

Stephen

[Kickaha]

I knew that he had built flying replica WW1 planes (housed in Blenheim?) and if you can do that, a Lancaster is only a question of scale, and money, the concept is the same.

We had a guy at work a week ago who had a replica Spitfire 90% scale and a crowd in the USA built some flying replica ME262, its just a matter of money and willingness to do it

[BoristheBiter]

We had a guy at work a week ago who had a replica Spitfire 90% scale and a crowd in the USA built some flying replica ME262, its just a matter of money and willingness to do it

In the Charley Boormans second series "Right to the Edge: Sydney to Tokyo By Any Means" He gets a ride in a replica spitfire.
This crowd makes kitsets so you can build it yourself or for a small fee will build the whole thing for you.
Now that would be cool.

[HenryDorsetCase]

In the Charley Boormans second series "Right to the Edge: Sydney to Tokyo By Any Means" He gets a ride in a replica spitfire.
This crowd makes kitsets so you can build it yourself or for a small fee will build the whole thing for you.
Now that would be cool.

last time I looked at that site they were $175k AUD I think

http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/About.htm

because I am only 75% of the size of a normal human, I would be happy enough with the Mk25...

wonder how their shift to the US has gone? sure its where the vintage plane nuts are, but their economy hasnt been so good. though I guess the people with money still mostly have money, like here.

[Swoop]

I knew that he had built flying replica WW1 planes (housed in Blenheim?) and if you can do that, a Lancaster is only a question of scale, and money, the concept is the same.
Quite a lot of difference between building wooden Vs metal aircraft. A Lanc. would be a serious undertaking... just like those below.

a crowd in the USA built some flying replica ME262, its just a matter of money and willingness to do it
Correct. The 262 project (http://www.stormbirds.com/project/general/updates.htm)has almost 20 years behind it now, from aquiring the Smithsonian's original example, stripping and completely restoring that (as part of the deal) whilst making drawings/prototypes of parts to make the reproductions from.

Then there are the Flug Werke (http://www.flugwerk.de/html/index.php)190's. Superb aircraft that are regarded as "late manufacture" original FW190's.

[Spearfish]

Drop one of the G's then its the colour of one of my printers ink cartridges.

"Coconut tackles" was offensive... never really understood that one, unless I was on the receiving end?

[davebullet]

Digger? How dare they run down old miners / WW1 veterans by relating them to a "dog". I think they deserve more respect.

There-in lies the problem. Change the name and you are going to offend someone. whether they want historical preservation or feel you are denegrating something else.

Remember when Lord of the Rings - Two towers was coming out? There was a call to change the name of the film, because it reminded people of 9/11 ("twin" towers).

What a load of crap.

If people get offended by Nigger used in a historical context, then they are only labelling themselves.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We're talking about old planes, though............

[pzkpfw]

... Sad to see that B-17 crashed yesterday ...

One of the saddest things I've seen on T.V. was a history channel doco on some crowd who restored a B29 found encased in snow and ice somewhere. They spent ages and much $$$ getting it running, and preparing it to fly back somewhere. During an engine test the APU caught fire (some petrol engine inside somewhere) and the whole thing burned to the ground (on the ground).


Then there are the Flug Werke (http://www.flugwerk.de/html/index.php)190's. Superb aircraft that are regarded as "late manufacture" original FW190's.

Some of the warbird Migs (Mig 3??) are like that, old Russian factories were made to build new ones. Using American Allison engines.


Remember when Lord of the Rings - Two towers was coming out? There was a call to change the name of the film, because it reminded people of 9/11 ("twin" towers).

That's mostly thought to be a joke, that the media (and some people) took too seriously.

[Swoop]

One of the saddest things I've seen on T.V. was a history channel doco on some crowd who restored a B29 found encased in snow and ice somewhere. They spent ages and much $$$ getting it running, and preparing it to fly back somewhere. During an engine test the APU caught fire (some petrol engine inside somewhere) and the whole thing burned to the ground (on the ground).
Yup. Greenland was the location and the plane was the Kee Bird.
http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Warbirds-Obsessive-Quest-Aircraft/dp/0345436172
That book is a good read.

Darryl Greenamyer was the guy behind it. He had the very first privately owned F-104 Starfighter! He biult it up out of spare parts and went for speed records in it.

[jazfender]

group of whiteys get together, reaffirm narrow worldviews, leave with smug sense of satisfaction.

lather, rinse, repeat.

[jaffaonajappa]

group of whiteys get together, reaffirm narrow worldviews, leave with smug sense of satisfaction.

lather, rinse, repeat.

Ha, funny.
I grew up in a time when the School Library had this book on its shelves. Although it was starting to become an embarrassment.....it remained for quite a while before we went PC mad.
http://mulattodiaries.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/re-little-black-sambo/

[Bikemad]

dunno what all the fuss is about.............call the stinkin dog Spade and everyones happy..........

[HenryDorsetCase]

group of whiteys get together, reaffirm narrow worldviews, leave with smug sense of satisfaction.

lather, rinse, repeat.


a group of people who invented then propagated civilisation get together, agree that the job is ongoing, but still more to be done, leave with a plan to selflessly bring more enlightenment to whomever may need it.

for no other reason than it is the right thing to do.

repeat until the forces of darkness are banished.

[jazfender]

repeat until the forces of darkness are banished.

check out the almighty white knight.

Racism is a force of darkness.

[Metastable]

Movie aside...

It is as simple as this:

Any term is derogatory if the person who you are speaking do, thinks it is derogatory.

Simply put it... you say Nigger to a black dude and you are white... guess what, it is most likely seen as derogatory. So if you are unsure, don't say it.

[BoristheBiter]

check out the almighty white knight.

Racism is a force of darkness.

See told you it was dem darkies

[george formby]

Got this in the post today... Not sure if he won his case though. Putting this forward as food for thought, not an opinion.


Michael Richards makes his point.................

Michael Richards, better known as Kramer from TV's Seinfeld, does make a good point.

This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... And that's OK..

But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink .. You call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you... So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day.

You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day.

You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.

You have the NAACP. You have BET.... If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that??

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .. Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.

I am proud.... But you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists??

[HenryDorsetCase]

check out the almighty white knight.

Racism is a force of darkness.

define your terms, Sir.

[HenryDorsetCase]

check out the almighty white knight.

Racism is a force of darkness.

I'm more the Grand Wizard, but white knight is acceptable......


;)

[jaffaonajappa]

define your terms, Sir.

You called Jazzfender "Sir"? thats one of the most derogatory terms you can use for an anti establishment type. Well done. :)

[jazfender]

Why is it that only whites can be racists??


First of all, racism (ironically) is independent of race. Xenophobia probably developed as a survival thing, the us v them thing works when you're a knuckle-dragging tribe.

Second, Kramer is famous and speaking publicly on stage with a microphone and a PA. If the black dudes he was shitting on were famous, got on stage and shat all over white people - there would be a similar outcry. Italics because there is probably a way to go before it's exactly the same.

Third, the 'how come they can do it but we can't' argument usually pits oranges against apples like in the Kramer example above, and usually doesn't hold if all other things are equal.

Arguing for that doesn't exactly help and is childish, backwards thinking. It doesn't actually do anything to help race relations. In fact it just reinforces racism.

The point of all of this is, we, of a supposedly advanced civilization should be working to rise above things like xenophobia and racism in a civilized order. This is because we have things like law and freedom of speech as opposed to primitive methods of surviving.

Thus:


You called Jazzfender "Sir"? thats one of the most derogatory terms you can use for an anti establishment type. Well done. :)

...seems off point in that everything I have said is firmly pro-establishment.

So, suck my dick. :motu:

[jaffaonajappa]

If the black dudes he was shitting on were famous, got on stage and shat all over white people - there would be a similar outcry. Italics because there is probably a way to go before it's exactly the same.


This guys a Legend. And fuckin smart.

Snoop Dog abusing "the Whiteys".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvCyNQHXdJo

[jazfender]

Snoop Dog abusing "the Whiteys".


Have you even seen the Kramer rant? The two videos are not comparable.

[jaffaonajappa]

Have you even seen the Kramer rant? The two videos are not comparable.

Kramer - the intellectual funny guy.....to some?
Or Snoop - The guy that people can actually relate to? Even if hes hard core black yank?

Nope. Havent seen the kramer video. Seen his show once... / yawn.

[rustyrobot]

Got this in the post today... Not sure if he won his case though. Putting this forward as food for thought, not an opinion.

Michael Richards makes his point.................

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/dubiousquotes/a/michaelrichards.htm
Michael Richards' Self Defense

Netlore Archive: Circulating via email, a racist rant purportedly delivered by actor/comedian Michael Richards as his 'defense speech in court' for shouting racial epithets at black audience members during a 2006 incident at an L.A. comedy club

Description: Email flier
Circulating since: Feb. 2006
Status: Falsely attributed to Michael Richards

Comments: Though this racist rant has been widely disseminated online and seems especially popular on Neo-Nazi and "white power" websites, it dates from well before Michael Richards' infamous onstage tirade against African-American audience members at the L.A. Laugh Factory on November 17, 2006. He did not write it, nor could it have constituted his "defense speech in court," given that there were no charges filed and no court trial ever took place.

It is also at odds with Richards' stated apology after the videotaped incident, in which he said he was "deeply, deeply sorry" for shouting racial epithets at two black men who had heckled him during his performance at the comedy club.

The true author of the text is unknown.

[george formby]

There you go, a community at work. Thank you.

[pete376403]

Maybe that is a "neo-nazi, white-supremist" rant, but, the majority of those statements are true, more or less.

To be non-racist, is it also necessary to be a liar, or at least avoid truth?

[jaffaonajappa]

To be non-racist, is it also necessary to be a liar, or at least avoid truth?

Rascist by thoughts, or rascist by action? One is possibly quite common. The other is worth fighting against.

The biggest problem is people being incapable of keeping their mouths closed. IMO.

[jazfender]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6pp6WC1Ocz4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Berries]

Two reasons I won't watch the film.

You cannot top the original movie.

The dog was called nigger.

Actually, one reason. The first was reason enough for me not to watch some shit remake. The second is just PC bullshit. Why bother telling a story if you aren't going to tell the true story? I bet the bombs won't even be round in case they offend fat bastards.

Alpha.
Bravo.
Charlie.
Oooh. I'm not sure about that one, what about out Asian subscribers?

Wankers.

[Berries]

and of course, none of the guys smoked either.............

[Brian d marge]

just a wee thought , we havent even seen the friggen movie yet ,,,it might actually be ok

Stephen

[jazfender]

"the dog Nigger will be renamed Digger as it might offend Americans."

I think this is a key point. New Zealanders can't really appreciate the effect of the word on Americans.

As much as some of us would like, we're not American. The word was probably used by the colonials here but it doesn't have the same weight in history.

I appreciate the backlash towards political correctness but in the name of balance, not a giant pendulum swinging from too PC to racism.

-

The other thing is, this is a film for entertainment, not a fucking historical record. You can name a thousand films that don't follow the exact events (mainly because real life is far less interesting).

Is the name of the dog a major theme of the movie? Is it still relevant to people today?

Like it or not, society changes and entertainment has to keep up for it to be...entertaining. Otherwise we'd all still be going to Minstrel shows.

PJ's not making this movie to piss off a large chunk of his audience.

[Kickaha]

"the dog Nigger will be renamed Digger as it might offend Americans."

I better give Peter a ring and get him to change the planes to B17 so they don't get upset about the Lancasters as well

[jazfender]

I better give Peter a ring and get him to change the planes to B17 so they don't get upset about the Lancasters as well

I don't know shit about planes but I can guarantee you any references don't hold as much historical or emotional weight as 'nigger'.

[Kickaha]

The other thing is, this is a film for entertainment, not a fucking historical record. You can name a thousand films that don't follow the exact events (mainly because real life is far less interesting).

If you're going to make a film about a major historic event then personally I think they have a duty to make it as accurate as possible (yes even down to the dogs name)

[Berries]

just a wee thought , we havent even seen the friggen movie yet ,,,it might actually be ok
I bet you 50 bucks it is in colour. How historically accurate is that ? We all know WW2 took place in black and white.

[jazfender]

If you're going to make a film about a major historic event then personally I think they have a duty to make it as accurate as possible (yes even down to the dogs name)

Seen Titanic?

[Kickaha]

Seen Titanic?

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a red hot poker and have someone piss in the empty sockets

That movie wasn't really about the Titanic anyway

[jazfender]

I'd rather poke my eyes out with a red hot poker and have someone piss in the empty sockets

That movie wasn't really about the Titanic anyway

Haha, safe.


If you're going to make a film about a major historic event then personally I think they have a duty to make it as accurate as possible (yes even down to the dogs name)

I dunno man, I don't think film-makers should have any kind of "duty" surrounding their creations unless it's a documentary.

You could actually argue that PJ is upholding a duty in trying not to offend his audience and drawing away from the main themes in the film.

[Usarka]

I don't know shit about planes but I can guarantee you any references don't hold as much historical or emotional weight as 'nigger'.

How many american 'nam movies do they napalm gooks without worrying about offending anyone?

edit: i have no idea why i quoted you there jaz i might have got the wrong quote ah feckit :wacko:

[Berries]

Seen Titanic?
Did the Americans change the ending ?

[jazfender]

Did the Americans change the ending ?

yeah the whitey berg sunk instead so as not to offend shipbuilders.

[fuknKIWI]

Who's making this film?
Warn a Brother's?

[imdying]

"the dog Nigger will be renamed Digger as it might offend Americans."

I think this is a key point. New Zealanders can't really appreciate the effect of the word on Americans.Boo fucking hoo. How many American Vietnam war movies have you seen? Did any of them not use the terribly racist term "gook"? Any?

[jazfender]

Boo fucking hoo. How many American Vietnam war movies have you seen? Did any of them not use the terribly racist term "gook"? Any?

I'm gonna make this easy for you.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nigger&searchmode=none

[Usarka]

I'm gonna make this easy for you.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gook

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nigger&searchmode=none

Let me reply.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=unclear&searchmode=none

[Big Dave]

My op: It's a hateful word and these are more enlightened times. It's only entertainment. Change it. If it was a documentary - leave it.

[PrincessBandit]

At quiz night this evening one of the questions was "what is the name of this dog?" I'm like "oooh ooooh I know this" (not really thinking about the fact that the dog in the picture wasn't black) - all I saw was a war-ey clip not paying much attention to who the person accompanying it was. (You'll see the relevance of this in a sec).

No one bothered to point out to me who the person was, although I could see military uniform. So I wrote down "Nigger", giving my reason (topic of this thread).

Turned out the man in the clip was Hitler and his dog was called...wait for it...Blondie.

Of all the names I could have written down that was the complete antithesis. Everyone had a great laugh at my expense. Blondie - Nigger. OMG.

[Berries]

Quiz night wasn't at the local Mob HQ then I take it?

[avgas]

it will always be a derogatory temr for Black people ...
I thought "blacks" was a derogatory term for people from Niger?