bike positioning on the road.

[FROSTY]

Something I've noticed amongst new riders is the habit of hugging the left hand side of the road whilst riding.
Its a potential problem for ya and a habit I'd strongly discourage.
I use the phrase Take Ownership of the Road.
The place I suggest riding is the right hand wheel track in your lane.
That puts you about 800mm from the right hand sider of your lane.
It give you maximum view of the road around corners and makes you more visible to other road users. Theres also a lot less "stuff' on the road there.
Theres a whole heap of other reasons But I guess ya get the gist of wot Im sayin.
Hey this isn't a hard and fast "rule" --Just an observation over the years

[bugjuice]

well said.. plus cars can be likely to pull into the lane you're using on multi-laned roads, and not see you're there until it's too late, or you scare the crap out of them.. and hopefully they don't touch you and knock you off..

[hXc]

I agree with you Frosty. You should ride in the right-hand wheel track in your lane to make yourself more visible to on-coming traffic etc. But it is also illegal to ride otherwise isn't it. You should ride/drive the closest you can without being dangerous to the right of the lane. If you are riding/driving to the left then it is expected that you are letting people pass you or you are pulling over. Can a cop back this up if it is true please? I'm not sure that it is but if it isn't, it is logical.

[pritch]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.

[hXc]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

Riding in the middle is bloody dangerous mate. That's where the oil and shit would leak from a car and it builds up in the middle of the road. Don't agree with you, sorry.

[FROSTY]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.
Pritch--I hear ya dude --and I would guess you're fairly experienced -
Im more thinking of new riders with limited time on the road.
Id suggest center of road is not such a good place because its where the center of the car/truck is --oil etc gets dumped there more than anywhere else.--actually not true --but the cars tend to mop up/pick up stuff actually in their wheel tracks.

[TwoSeven]

I agree with you Frosty. You should ride in the right-hand wheel track in your lane to make yourself more visible to on-coming traffic etc.

Not quite true. You'll get yourself killed riding there - its smack in the cars blind spot.

What you *should* be doing is making sure you have a safe following distance of at least 3 secs (and yes it does require riding slow). Most of the riders I see tailgate because they think they have good brakes - yet you look in the wreckers and see how many bikes have mashed front ends.

Next you want to position yourself in your lane so that you can see the furthest both straight ahead and down side turnings. That means you have to change your position IN the lane fairly often and it also means you have to adjust your speed.

For a left hand side road, cars on the left and left hand obstruction its right side of lane, opposite for muck on the right.

Never follow behind a car, always about 6" to either side of it. That way, if you cock up an emergency brake, worst you'll do is pull up alongside.

You usually find that people who make firm rules about where to travel like always on the left or always on the right are the ones that have the most incidents because they dont seem to plan for the unexpected.

[MSTRS]

Not quite true. You'll get yourself killed riding there - its smack in the cars blind spot.


Hmmmmm.....I've been riding nearly 35yrs. I sit myself predominantly in the right wheel track & I aint dead yet. Yes - I move about in the lane depending on conditions etc, but the right side of the lane is best as a rule.
1. gives you more room to manouvre/react.
2. discourages dodgy lane-sharing (shall we say)
3. allows the rider to see both the interior mirror & right wing mirror of the cage in front. (Heaps of trucks have the sign that says "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you" which explains my reasoning)

[FROSTY]

Not quite true. You'll get yourself killed riding there - its smack in the cars blind spot.
You usually find that people who make firm rules about where to travel like always on the left or always on the right are the ones that have the most incidents because they dont seem to plan for the unexpected.
I think you're missin the point dude.
This thread was pointed at newer riders not at those with enough experience to make informed decisions.
How are you in a cars blind spot---Oncoming traffic,traffic turning from either the left or right of you or for that matter directly in front of you-Wheel track puts ya right in the middle of their rear vision mirror.
What I'm seeing here is a bunch of opinions that will give information overload to a new rider.
On the average the right wheel track offers the safest road position I think that is undeniable. I diddn't go into correct following distance as it just muddies the waters.
A person with miles under the wheels with certainly make use of all the positioning options whilst riding -I certainly do.
The idea here is to offer the greatest chance of avoiding injury to a newer biker.

[James Deuce]

I agree with you Frosty. You should ride in the right-hand wheel track in your lane to make yourself more visible to on-coming traffic etc. But it is also illegal to ride otherwise isn't it. You should ride/drive the closest you can without being dangerous to the right of the lane. If you are riding/driving to the left then it is expected that you are letting people pass you or you are pulling over. Can a cop back this up if it is true please? I'm not sure that it is but if it isn't, it is logical.

Riding in the right hand wheel track is now an offence worth demerit points. You are required to stay as far to the left as possible. LTNZ's rationale, trying to avoid head-on collisions caused by crossing the centre line, is a good one but it doesn't doesn't take motorcycles into account at all.

I won't be keeping to the left because it's bollocks for motorcycles and encourages other road users to overtake you in an unsafe manner.

In the twistys I ride to maximise my sight line and give me the maximum possible room on my side of the road to avoid other road users. Left hand corners I stay to the right and apex late, right hand corners I stay to the left and again apex late. The last point fixes the issue of dangling your upper body and half of your bike on the wrong side of the road. I get as much braking as possible done whilst upright.

[FROSTY]

Riding in the right hand wheel track is now an offence worth demerit points. You are required to stay as far to the left as possible. LTNZ's rationale, trying to avoid head-on collisions caused by crossing the centre line, is a good one but it doesn't doesn't take motorcycles into account at all.

Jim --Nothing new here --As I understand it it has always been a legal requirement to drive as far to the left as practicably possible.
If that was enforced to the letter of the law a shit load of cagers would be getting tickets--well at least where I live they would.
In 27 years of road riding I've never been pulled over for riding in the wrong wheel track

[erik]

Riding in the middle is bloody dangerous mate. That's where the oil and shit would leak from a car and it builds up in the middle of the road. Don't agree with you, sorry.

I think the tyre tracks on chip-sealed roads where the stone chips have worn away and it's just tar are far more slippery in the wet than the middle of the lane.

Oil buildup in the centre of a lane is more of a problem at intersections where the cars sit still in a queue for ages.

That said, if the road surface isn't damaged and it's wet, I'll try to avoid the centre of the lane and stick to one of the tyre tracks.

Another reason to avoid the centre of the lane in traffic (or if you're tailgating someone) is that there may be crap in the middle of the lane like gravel at road works or rocks that have fallen of the back of a truck or something. The cars ahead of you will have already cleared the gravel out of the tyre tracks, but not the centre, and if you're close to the car in front, you may not see the stuff on the road until it's too late.

[Ixion]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.

Ditto, FWIW. Right wheel track most often, but I'll (deliberately) move to centre or left and back again. Depending on which bit of road looks best, and where the shit ain't. And if I see other traffic coming toward me that looks like it might stray over the line.

And also so that the driver if front is more likely to see me if he doesn't check all his mirrors.

Another reason (ain't seen this one mentioned before), I like to "disappear and reappear" in the drivers mirror. So that if I'm following him for a while he says "Where's that bike gone - oh there he is ". That way if I do get into his blind spot hes going to look a bit, not just assume I've gone away. (Yeah, I know, leap of faith to assume he'll look at all. But some do)

Don't think you can make a rule . But if one did, I'd have to say the sticking to left side of lane is the worst position. Go there if there's a reason to, but don't choose it by default.

[Waylander]

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.
Just tell them it's either that or you come a destroy someones car when they hit your bike expecting that parking spot to be empty. Also tell him that it's not just one bike becouse if another biker rols up while you are still inside they can park in the same spot you did.

I do that quite often and find another biker has pulled in next to me when I park in an empty spot. Just one more of those things I like about the biker brother/sisterhood.

[DingDong]

most of the time I dont wait long enough to sit behind any cars so I use the whole road... but when I do, I stick to the left and fair distance behind (four tyres and 1500kg stop a whole lot faster than 2" of front wheel bike rubber.)

A twist of the wrist and I'm gone...:)

[Beemer]

The main problem with keeping as far to the left as practicable (as per the regulations) is that it gives drivers an opening to share your lane. If you are in a car and over to the left, fine, you still take up a large proportion of the lane, but if you are on a bike, the minute you move to the left, some tosser in a car usually takes that as an invitation to pass you - if you are going slow enough that this is a feasible option! And can you imagine a cop pulling someone up for riding to the left in a group (staggered formation)? I can't see it ever happening, unless the rider is sitting on the centre line - which I have seen done, unfortunately!

When I learned to ride, I was told to 'command my lane' - in other words, make sure anyone following me knew it was MY space. I've followed that rule and had no problems, but you alter your line according to the conditions and the traffic around you. As for sitting to the outside of the right or left of a vehicle, one wrong move and you'd be in the path of oncoming traffic or off the road.

The difference between a new rider and one with more experience is that the more experienced riders tend NOT to sit behind a car unless they have to - they pass it and gain some space around them. If you are in heavy traffic or on a windy road with double yellows or similar, make sure the car in front and the car behind you can see you. Don't follow too closely is more important than where you position yourself - always give yourself an escape route. If the guy in front suddenly stops or changes direction, you need to be able to avoid hitting him - something your road position alone isn't always going to give you.

I like Ixion's idea of changing your position every now and then when following a car, so the driver doesn't 'forget' you are there. I don't know whether it is my headlights or what, but I usually find most drivers move as far to the left as they can in order to let me pass - which is very much appreciated, but I wish they would take a look at the road ahead before they do it! No way am I keen to overtake on the brow of a hill or on a tight road in case someone's over the line when I do so - so thanks, but I'm not always going to take advantage of the offer!

[sunhuntin]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

[James Deuce]

Jim --Nothing new here --As I understand it it has always been a legal requirement to drive as far to the left as practicably possible.
If that was enforced to the letter of the law a shit load of cagers would be getting tickets--well at least where I live they would.
In 27 years of road riding I've never been pulled over for riding in the wrong wheel track

It is new. It never used to be worth demerit points. When they upped the number of "demeritable" offences from 15 to 33 recently, that was one they added to the list.

[James Deuce]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

[James Deuce]

most of the time I dont wait long enough to sit behind any cars so I use the whole road... but when I do, I stick to the left and fair distance behind (four tyres and 1500kg stop a whole lot faster than 2" of front wheel bike rubber.)



Performance bikes proved the "Cars brake better than bikes" statement to be a lie about 4 years ago. Against a car with ABS, Yaw control, and traction control, a Honda Valkyrie will stop quicker in the wet than the car, if (big if there) the rider knows what they are doing. If I can find the mag I will send you a copy so you can see how they achieved even better feats with more sporting tackle. There is much more to braking than contact patch.

[monster]

Good on u 4 sharing the knowledge, Frosty. I agree it's not a good place to ride, so imagine my surprise when the AA test instructor gave me a lecture, for not keeping as far practacable (sp?) to the left of the lane. Against primal feminine instinct, I held my tongue. I can still taste the blood. And I got my bit of paper. But it is mental. Works for a car. Not for us. So newbies -claim your lane. Unless your sitting your test....

[N4CR]

Considering the motorcycle road code says exactly what Frosty says.... I don't think the cops can enforce that rule on bikes (yes I know it aint a legal document etc) without some big scrap in court.

I have been infront of/behind you name it cops in the right wheel track many times and they havn't even looked at me as of late. I think they use discretion... this rule might be more for the FRIGGEN HORSEFLOATS OF DOOM that hold every one up in clevedon in the weekends... very often they never ever pull over and hog all of the road :mad:

[Magua]

The main problem with keeping as far to the left as practicable (as per the regulations) is that it gives drivers an opening to share your lane. If you are in a car and over to the left, fine, you still take up a large proportion of the lane, but if you are on a bike, the minute you move to the left, some tosser in a car usually takes that as an invitation to pass you - if you are going slow enough that this is a feasible option!

I had a few scary moments like that when I first started riding. A car would take up position next to me in my lane.

[Ixion]

Considering the motorcycle road code says exactly what Frosty says.... I don't think the cops can enforce that rule on bikes (yes I know it aint a legal document etc) without some big scrap in court.

I have been infront of/behind you name it cops in the right wheel track many times and they havn't even looked at me as of late. I think they use discretion... this rule might be more for the FRIGGEN HORSEFLOATS OF DOOM that hold every one up in clevedon in the weekends... very often they never ever pull over and hog all of the road :mad:

Blurdy HORSEFLOATS. Don't mention horsefloats. I got stuck behind one of the bastiges today. And, yes, at Clevedon. Prick, hogged the whole lane, and when I essayed a tentative move to overtake, he pulled to the right. So I had to follow him at 40kph into Clevedon. We hatessssss horsefloats. Hatesssssss them we does. Nasssssssty :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Posh Tourer :P]

Good on u 4 sharing the knowledge, Frosty. I agree it's not a good place to ride, so imagine my surprise when the AA test instructor gave me a lecture, for not keeping as far practacable (sp?) to the left of the lane. Against primal feminine instinct, I held my tongue. I can still taste the blood. And I got my bit of paper. But it is mental. Works for a car. Not for us. So newbies -claim your lane. Unless your sitting your test....

I had the same comment on my test. Explained I was more visible and there was less crap on the roads. He asked me if that was just my opinion, and I said something about how I heard it from Institute of Advanced Motorcycle Riding book....

I kinda made up the title a little bit, but he seemed happy....

[Posh Tourer :P]

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

I would do the same as sunhuntin and pull over when it is reasonable to do so. I dont want to let 15 cars rush past me forcing me into the gravel because I am doing a slower speed than they are. People tend to take a mile if you give them an inch. I'd wait to give them the mile when I'm ready thanks.....

Remember there was a discaimer about twisty road etc. No-one said anything about spiteful road hogging, more an aspect of self preservation....

[monster]

I had the same comment on my test. Explained I was more visible and there was less crap on the roads. He asked me if that was just my opinion, and I said something about how I heard it from Institute of Advanced Motorcycle Riding book....

I kinda made up the title a little bit, but he seemed happy....

Good response! Nice. :Punk:

My AA 'testicle' and I just weren't really feeling each other that day. I walked up to his door at one stage of the test, and his window fell out. He fixed it, and didn't try to wind it down again for the rest of the test. But that pretty much sums him up. I probably shouldn't have laughed. :whistle:

[Beemer]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.

I think you will find pretty soon that you can be fined for obstructing the flow of traffic if you sit on the centre line and deliberately prevent following vehicles from passing. Big pat on the back for the first cop to catch you! :clap:

Yes, the terms of your licence restrict you to travelling at no more than 70kph, but they do not absolve you of the requirement to follow the road rules. If you have a line of vehicles behind you, all wanting to travel at 100kph and you are sitting on the centre line doing 70, you need your arse kicked. And so does your father - his actions are just as dumb. :yes:

You may think you are being staunch by riding where you do and also for not letting vehicles pass you, but what happens the day you do it to someone who decides to give your tail a little bump to encourage you to move out of the way? Or to someone who doesn't realise you are only doing 70kph and doesn't brake in time?

No one expects you to pull over immediately a vehicle comes up behind you, but for christ's sake, show some common courtesy! If you can pull over into a rest area or similar to let them pass, do it! Or at least keep to the left and let them have the opportunity to pass you when they can. You may not have confidence on roads with lots of corners, but most car drivers will safely be able to pass you - IF YOU LET THEM!!! :nono:

[TwoSeven]

I think you're missin the point dude.
This thread was pointed at newer riders not at those with enough experience to make informed decisions.
How are you in a cars blind spot---Oncoming traffic,traffic turning from either the left or right of you or for that matter directly in front of you-Wheel track puts ya right in the middle of their rear vision mirror.
What I'm seeing here is a bunch of opinions that will give information overload to a new rider.
On the average the right wheel track offers the safest road position I think that is undeniable. I diddn't go into correct following distance as it just muddies the waters.
A person with miles under the wheels with certainly make use of all the positioning options whilst riding -I certainly do.
The idea here is to offer the greatest chance of avoiding injury to a newer biker.

When you ride is someones wheel track, either left or right side, you end up positioning yourself in their blind spot caused by the position of the driver and the angle rear window pillar splitting the view between the side and rear view mirrors.

You may have heard of recent studies where many intersection accidents happen because the oncoming car was not seen by the driver because it was hidden by the front window pillar at the time they checked for oncoming traffic. Well the same happens for motorcyclists on the rear window pillar.

Another reason why you should not travel hehind a vehicle (but should position on their offside) is as I hopefully mentioned in an earlier post, the condition of an emergency stop. Being behind a car and messing up the stopping distance (perhaps being asleep, hazard on the road etc) would put you somewhere 'inside' the vehicle after negotiating its steel and glass armour plating. If you run on the offsides, then worst will happen is you'll stop along side. NB: That offside means that the side of your bike is about where their side mirror is. As you drop back in following distance, you can center the bike in the lane more. Of course, its important that you dont make yourself a hazard for drivers in other lanes. However, I personally advocate big safe following distance and riding in the center of the lane, over closing up the gap and having to move to the sides.

Obviously you can get round this [moving around the place] by leaving a significant gap so you drop back however in general riding conditions most motorcyclists being lazy sods, tired, other things on their mind etc, close the gap up and increase the hazard (I see many riders tailgaiting in chch).

As someone else mentioned, these techniques are part of your ability to 'control your lane' and really good bikers should know how to do this.

As to why people venture opinions - well thats partly due to the fact that most, if not all of us are not fully trained motorcycle tutors and do not have a legal disclaimer associated with the information that we give out in order to protect ourselves from a lawsuit from someone that hurt themselves from something we may have said. Thus, stuff we say, should only be treated as an opinion and undertaken at the riders own risk (insert standard forum post disclaimer here). If for forum had a universal indemnity clause for its members, I suspect your wouldnt get just opinions :)

Its important to understand following distances as it has a big influence with road positioning and visibility. In this case, if the waters must be muddied then so be it. :)

[FROSTY]

There must be summat getting lost in interpretation here.
You had me even questioning my own logic.
I just sat in about 10 cars and looked in the rear vision mirrror.
If you ride in the right hand wheel track you are clearly visible to the driver
That is unless you are 2.0m or less from their bumper.

[Jackrat]

I have seen the phrase "dominate your lane". I use left track, right track, or centre of lane depending on circumstances. Just lately I'm spending more time in the middle when it's wet so as to avoid those shiny tar patches...

A cage driver recently commented adversely on the way I was parked, in the middle of the car park toward the back. He didn't think a bike should use the whole space. On the other hand I like lotsa space around, driving or parked.

I've had the parking space talk a couple of times myself.
Where do these prats think their getting off with that shit.
It gives a prime example of their thinking though :weird:
As far as lane positioning goes,I move around a fair bit depending on the situation at the time.
I like to be able to see the driver in front in their own mirrors,this way they SHOULD be able to see me and I can watch their face to see if they have.
I seldom ride in the left of my own lane unless I have another bike behind me.I tend to sit just right of center most of the time,for the very reasons Frosty points out.

[sunhuntin]

a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.

i knew there was a reason i put you on my ignore list. earliest possible opportunity for me meant that there was a straight where i could quite happily ride in the ditch if need be, not a road with corners popping out of no where.

im an idiot? your a wanker :tugger:

[Beemer]

I agree with you Frosty, if you are in a driver's blind spot, then you are obviously travelling too close to them. I always spot bikers coming up behind me, and it would only be when they are about to overtake that they momentarily disappear from view - only to reappear in front!

Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it. :weird:

With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. :mad: You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. You don't have to put yourself in danger to do so, but you really need to realise that Jim is right - it's not a right to use public roads, it's a privilege. Get with the programme!

[hXc]

I agree with you Frosty, if you are in a driver's blind spot, then you are obviously travelling too close to them. I always spot bikers coming up behind me, and it would only be when they are about to overtake that they momentarily disappear from view - only to reappear in front!

Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it. :weird:

With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. :mad: You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. You don't have to put yourself in danger to do so, but you really need to realise that Jim is right - it's not a right to use public roads, it's a privilege. Get with the programme!

Just what needed to be said. Thanks Beemer. Sounds like sunhuntin is a bit of a tosser.
Listen to other peoples advice. It could save your life one day. You may be stuck up and think that you own the road or whatever but just stay to the left to let them pass or don't be on the road. It's common courtesy. If you can't travel at the speed limit pull over and let others pass.

[MSTRS]

When you ride is someones wheel track, either left or right side, you end up positioning yourself in their blind spot caused by the position of the driver and the angle rear window pillar splitting the view between the side and rear view mirrors.


Still can't see that. In the right wheel track (or the left for that matter) I can see the driver's face/eyes in both the centre and wing mirror, so unless said driver is acually blind, then I am in their visible spot.

[FROSTY]

oyy you lot lets not fight.

[TwoSeven]

Still can't see that. In the right wheel track (or the left for that matter) I can see the driver's face/eyes in both the centre and wing mirror, so unless said driver is acually blind, then I am in their visible spot.

There is a little dispatch trick that was tought to me by a london copper. You put the bike in the cars blind spot -which happens to be in their wheel tracks (usually at about 2-3 bike lengths) and you can check them out using their own mirrors and they cant see you - usually done in stationary traffic. Its even better when following bikes - if I had a pound for every biker i'd seen nicked using that trick, i'd have a mcdonalds happy meal by now :)

Its a dispatch trick because if you perform the manuever fast enough you can distract the driver by grabbing their attention, dissapear in their blind spot and while they are distracted by looking for you, you can pass them.

Since i've spent many years actually using this technique, i'm afraid I cant believe people who say they 'always' see bikers and people who insist there is no blind spot. I've also used it to frighten the bejesus out of the odd jam jar copper. They see you in their rear mirror only to have you appear beside their drivers door in the right side lane and pull in the clutch (and rev the living daylights out of the engine that just happens to have a loud end-can). Did you know that it takes roughly 0.005s for them to hit the roof of their car. :)

Since the standard car driver excuse (often disclaimed by postings made in this forum) that the driver claimed they didnt see the person. One would probably be asking why.

But as always - just my thoughts :)

[Squiggles]

right hand side of the left side of the road is where i usually ride..... especially since most of the man holes and stuff are on the left.....


wen i park my bike i sit it in the middle to the rear of the park....i just keep getting this vision of some guy racing to the shops, seeing a "empty" spot and plowing straight into my precious :no: ...... anyone else park like this?

[Ixion]

..
With the speed limit for learners being 70kph, may I respectfully suggest you STAY AWAY FROM 100KPH ZONES UNTIL YOU CAN RIDE AT THAT SPEED WITHOUT HAMPERING OTHER ROAD USERS. :mad: You obviously don't have the skill or the courtesy to be sharing the open road with others, so until you have your restricted licence and can keep up with the flow of traffic, for your own safety and that of other road users, don't ride on 100kph roads. And if you choose to do so (sounds like the only advice you take is the voice in your own head...), then either keep up with the other road users or keep to the left so they can pass. ..

Folks, folks, chill out. Bikers calling other bikers names is bad for everyone. If I may be so bold as to make a couple of comments.

I don't agree that learners should consider themselves precluded from 100kph zones. In earlier days I spent much time travelling the length of the North Island on BSA Bantams and other such power limited 125cc type bikes. In most cases the MAXIMUM speed , under good conditions was only 70kph. I don't believe that I was either a hazard or an unreasonable inconvenience to other drivers. One pulls to the far left and lets other traffic past AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. But there will always be situations where as soon as possible is not for a kilometre or so. One of these is in twisty bits where there IS no left, just a cliff or a sheer drop and/or guard rail

I interpreted Ms Sunhunters situation to be one of those. She was on a twisty bit where it was not safe to get other traffic past. Now what happens there, if you do keep leftish in the lane, someone will decide to pass you by the simple expedient of forcing you off the road. In these circumstances, holding a rightward lane position is sensible and safe.

And it does NOT usually hold other drivers up unreasonably , because in such twisty stuff one can't usually do 100kph anyway. (I have actually had drivers force past me , force me into the cliff to the point where I had foliage stuck in my clutch lever, then once past me SLOW DOWN to LESS than what I was doing. They didn't overtake me (dangerously) because I was holding them up, it was just the "I'm not following *him*" attitude.). And it is very rare for it to need more than a couple of kilometres before you can let them past. 2km at 70kph takes 1.7 minutes. At 100kph (EVEN assuming it could be done) takes 1.2 min. So maybe Ms Sunhunter delayed someone for 30 seconds. Hardly a lynching offence. She has indicated that she got any tail past as soon as it was safe.

Learners DO have as much right to be on the road as anyone else. I'm sort of surprised to see hints of the sort of attitudes, on here of all places, that make learners remove those L plates. So too does ANYONE who chooses to drive at less than 100kph (let alone whatever other 200+ speed someone thinks they ought to be able to ride at without being impeded by people who don't want to do that sort of speed).

Yes, most certainly everyone should be considerate of other drivers/riders, and pull over ASAP to let faster traffic through. I do NOT condone the "I'm doing the limit and he wants to break it so I won't let him through" attitude. But if someone were to dob me in for riding to slowly (as I do ), I'd jolly well dob them in for driving/riding over the limit (as I guarantee they would be).

[Beemer]

TwoSeven, I don't think anyone here is saying there is NO blind spot - I know I've gone to change lanes in the past and had a polite toot from a car that had been sitting in said blind spot. But what you are talking about is deliberately positioning yourself in someone's blind spot - not something most of us would do as a general rule.

As for calling other bikers names, I think the main reason everyone has got a little upset with Sunhuntin's attitude is the way she worded her response. Saying she sat out on the centre line to prevent other motorists from passing did not indicate to me that she had any intention of letting them pass until she was good and ready. This kind of attitude is usually only seen by those towing horse floats! :nono:

Yes, she DOES have a right to travel on 100kph roads, and many of us, when learning, would have had no choice if we wanted to get somewhere, but the point is to not ride/drive in such a manner to provoke other motorists. Yes, some motorists are dickheads and will try and overtake you even if you're doing 150kph, but the majority will realise when it is or isn't safe to pass a slower vehicle. I know as a learner I was pretty nervous when I had traffic building up behind me and an L-plate is no protection. Sure, none of us know exactly what road she is talking about, but the majority of roads do allow overtaking somewhere. We also have no idea how many vehicles were behind her - it may have been one or two or it may have been 20 - one indicates faster traffic catching up to the odd slow vehicle, the other a road hazard.

We all have a responsibility to ride with safety on our minds, and I'm afraid people expect motorcyclists to be going faster than them and they often have no patience with those who are doing less than the speed limit when road conditions are not a factor.

And I think to call someone a wanker because they are pointing out the consequences of your actions is a tad over the top. I wouldn't bother dobbing them in for going slow though - all that happens is the owner of the vehicle gets a letter telling them someone has complained - it's not like any action is taken. I've reported incidents of extremely dangerous driving and been prepared to stand up in court about it, but nothing has ever been taken any further. And if someone did report Sunhuntin for going too slow, they'd have at least 30kph to play with before THEY would be breaking the limit.

[cruzer]

Something I've noticed amongst new riders is the habit of hugging the left hand side of the road whilst riding.
Its a potential problem for ya and a habit I'd strongly discourage.
I use the phrase Take Ownership of the Road.
The place I suggest riding is the right hand wheel track in your lane.
That puts you about 800mm from the right hand sider of your lane.
It give you maximum view of the road around corners and makes you more visible to other road users. Theres also a lot less "stuff' on the road there.
Theres a whole heap of other reasons But I guess ya get the gist of wot Im sayin.
Hey this isn't a hard and fast "rule" --Just an observation over the years
I have used that part of the road and on two occassions, on a motorway on ramp, I have been passed on the inside by some asshole that doesn't know how to drive.
Now I try to (as you put it) "Take ownership" and ride as close to the centre without riding in the slippery bit and if someone wants to pass (I never do less than the speed limit) they can use another lane!

[Beemer]

I have used that part of the road and on two occassions, on a motorway on ramp, I have been passed on the inside by some asshole that doesn't know how to drive.

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!

[cruzer]

Jim --Nothing new here --As I understand it it has always been a legal requirement to drive as far to the left as practicably possible.
If that was enforced to the letter of the law a shit load of cagers would be getting tickets--well at least where I live they would.
In 27 years of road riding I've never been pulled over for riding in the wrong wheel track
I Have! Once in 1982 (or thereabouts) riding up Great North Rd just coming up to Avondale, about 11PM and I get pulled over and given a ticket for failing to keep left. Coudn't beleive it and I guess neither could some of his colleagues as I took the ticket to the then Ministry of Transport to protest the next day and the traffic cop on the other side of the counter screwed it up proclaiming that it was a "hideous Offence" and tossed it in the bin.
Guess it depends on the mood or hunger of power affecting the writer at the time?

[Ixion]

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?

[cruzer]

I think you'll find that a lot of drivers do this even when you are driving a car - it's not that they are trying to 'share your lane', they are just inconsiderate pricks who expect YOU to get out of THEIR way! The only time they don't do it is if your vehicle is bigger/older or more likely to damage theirs!
Therefore, I use as much of my/the lane as possible

[cruzer]

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?
My handlebars are to wide and my balls are to small (afraid of Auckland Drivers)

[Lou Girardin]

I'll ride where ever I have the best visibility ahead. But also in a position to deter drivers trying to pass on the left. I tend not to stay in the right hand wheel track as this removes much of your safety cushion from oncoming vehicles. I've never had a traction problem riding in the middle of the lane. (Except for one embarrasing moment at the lights) I also use acceleration to maintain a cushion ahead of traffic too. You usually get 50 metres on cages before their drivers wake up.
The MOT bike training emphasised using the correct lines, but only using half your lane. The reasoning being that if you're next to the cntreline approaching turn-in for a left hander, you are vulnerable to an oncoming vehilcle that's crossed the centreline.

[TwoSeven]

In earlier days I spent much time travelling the length of the North Island on BSA Bantams and other such power limited 125cc type bikes.

You blasphemer you. a bantam is not power limited. Its just challenged in the engine department. :)


Anyhow, good to see the debate, means everyone is thinking about it, which is better than taking things for granted.

[FROSTY]

2/7 --I think youre confusing a bikes blind spot with a cars blind spot.
2.0m behind (WTF are ya doing that close anyhoo --thats only one bike lenth behind ) in wheel track The center mirror in a car gives a clear view of a bike behind.
Tell ya what --bring ya bike here --Ive got 50 cars here you can park ya bike behind -Ive just been bloody trying it --Clearly visible to the driver

[erik]

im a new rider, and i tend to keep closer to the white line where possible. unlike my dad who rides in the freaking cycle lanes [annoyed me no end!!] i went out on the open road a while back, and us l-platers cant go faster than 70k. i had a row of cars behind me, but due to the road [lots of corners] i kept the the centre to prevent them from attempting to pass.
a. You're not invulnerable. Some psycho will run you over one day.

b. You do that to me when I'm in the car, and I'll fill in one of those dob in forms. If you are holding a queue of traffic up, get the hell out of the way at the earliest opportunity. People with your attitude cause accidents and death far more often than "speeding" does.

c. You're an idiot. It's not a right to use public roads it's a privilege.
Sunhuntin, you really do seem to have an attitude problem. Jim and many other KBers are trying to give you some good advice and if you want to be alive for much longer, I suggest you listen to them. I agree with one of your statements though, you ARE an idiot. But as for Jim being a wanker? Not sure of the female equivalent, but you've just proved you're it. :weird:

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions. :no:

[TwoSeven]

2/7 --I think youre confusing a bikes blind spot with a cars blind spot.
2.0m behind (WTF are ya doing that close anyhoo) in wheel track The center mirror in a car gives a clear view of a bike behind.
Tell ya what --bring ya bike here --Ive got 50 cars here you can park ya bike behind -Ive just been bloody trying it --Clearly visible to the driver


lol.. If I ever get up that way, your on. Willing to bet a packet of m&ms on it too. :)

[James Deuce]

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions. :no:

Bollocks.

If you don't want people to "leap to conclusions" then provide all the information.

In a forum post, or indeed an email, you cannot read intent or meaning if it isn't written down.

At least I don't resort to insulting people via the PM medium, or using foul (sea chickens!) language to make my "point". I've been called far worse than an idiot in this very forum without resorting to ignore lists.

People: if you can't take critique for what it is worth or how it is meant, then don't post stuff that is going to make people react in a way that you don't like. But if we did that the Internet forum medium would collapse into polite irrelevance. That might be a good thing. No more Internet "tough guys". Hmmmm?

[Beemer]

IMHO, it is you and Jim2 that have the attitude problems. I think you're reading stuff into her post that isn't there.

From what I read, she was on a windy road so she "owned" her lane to prevent cars from trying to pass her in unsafe conditions, just as others have been suggesting. Admittedly she didn't say that she was looking for a safe place to pull over and let them past (not in her first post anyway).

But you and Jim2 seem to have jumped to the conclusion that she wasn't looking for a place to stop and was unnecessarily holding up traffic.
Both of you have offered far more insults and abuse than useful suggestions. :no:

Sorry Erik but you need to reread some of our posts. Yes, there is annoyance at her seemingly cavalier attitude to following traffic, and perhaps we did word our responses a little harshly, but I for one stand by what I said. Sunhuntin is asking for trouble if, as a learner, she has this kind of attitude to other road users. She did come back later and say she waited until there was a straight where she could pull over, but we still don't know how long the traffic was built up behind her and how many vehicles there were. Also, she hasn't refuted anything anyone here has said, she's just attacked those who have said it.

This is a public forum, if she didn't want to listen to what other people have to say, she didn't have to post - and she could have come back and explained her actions a little better rather than calling Jim a wanker.

If she was sitting around in a pub and got into a discussion like this, I guarantee she would have got pretty much the same response. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen! She doesn't sound like she has very much experience on the road, and if she wants to have a long and enjoyable riding life, she does need to take on board some suggestions. How many accidents happen because a driver sitting in a queue of traffic has become frustrated and pulled out to overtake when it isn't safe to do so? If Sunhuntin had said she kept her riding line to discourage following vehicles from passing in unsafe areas, fine, but she did so to "prevent" them from passing. How patient would you have been if you were following her? Probably not very.

[vifferman]

I don't ride in any fixed position on the road - it varies according to road surface, traffic, width of the road, and a whole bunch of other variables. Some of it has to do with 'traffic psychology', some of it has to do with what I'm intending to do next, and all of it has to do with keeping safe. :yes:

Except when I'm being reckless... :confused:

Generally (when I'm not being reckless, and lane-splitting, filtering, passing in the gutter / on the footpath / on the verge beside the motorway), I ride to make sure people can see me, so that they don't try to cut me off or occupy my space, and that I avoid 'obstacles', such as greasy road surface in the wet, tar snakes, potholes, slippery lane markings, etc.
Sometimes I'll ride to the left of the lane, especially when coming onto the Harbour Bridge from Ponsonby, as I've had several instances of people trying to cut up the inside of me and force me across. That's MY perogative to cut up the inside, not some car driver's. :shifty:
Sometimes, usually out on the highways and byways, if traffic's moving slowlyish, I'll ride to the far right of the lane, in the 'predatory' position, as this often encourages cars to move over slightly so I can pass safely. This is the 'psychological' bit, and is the exact opposite of the 'submissive' position, riding/driving to the far left of the lane, which encourages people to pass you. :yes:

It's all about thinking about what you're doing, not just riding along adhering to habitual actions without thinking about the changing road/traffic conditions.

[Squiggles]

This is very annoying and frightening. But (Devil's advocate here ) , isn't it exactly what we do to THEM when we lane split ?


of course not :P there are fewer of us and that makes it ok...... :whistle:


i have no idea, good question :D

[Ixion]

.. How patient would you have been if you were following her? Probably not very.

Isn't that EXACTLY what the purpose of the L plate is supposed to be ? To indicate to other drivers that the driver/rider is a novice and could use some assistance from other road usersd, in the way of tolerance, and cutting the learner a bit of slack.

I'd be pretty patient following an L plate.

This is precisely what L platers complain about from cagers. Surely bikers can do better?

Everyone's got to learn sometime, and if a novice does make a mistake , either on the road , or in a post, a gentle admonition, with some helpful advice , goes a hell of a long way further than a full broadside of reproof and condemnation

Give the gal a break.

[James Deuce]

Give the gal a break.

No worries. We'll sit back and let her make her own mistakes, despite some of us "older" bikers feeling like we've let people die and get seriously injured because we didn't say anything when we needed to.

I went for a ride last Friday. One of the people I was riding with on the way back endangered me by riding far too close. Another over took a car on a short straight that goes into a dip followed by a blind left hand corner that has oncoming 100km/hr traffic. I spoke to the second one, and I've yet to chat with the first. I absolutely REFUSE to give up making comments to people after what happened with flyin and Ramius.

If I had delivered the message, using the same words to her face, Sunhuntin would be in no doubt that I was being "old-person" helpful. I would still have used the word "idiot", but that would probably have gone down a lot better in person.

[Beemer]

Point one: most drivers do not know that a learner is restricted to 70kph and therefore whether she had an L-plate or not, following motorists would most likely not be happy to be doing 70kph on an 100kph road. I was meaning if Erik was following her in a car - I wouldn't expect a rider to sit behind another rider travelling at 70kph unless they were riding with them.

Point two: Considering the respective responses to this post, I really don't think I have got anything to apologise for. Just because some people don't like the advice I have given is no reason for them to attack me. Not that I care if you do attack me - I'm big enough and ugly enough to take it!

Point three: Fine if you are the one right behind someone with an L-plate - the however many drivers behind you may not either know or care why the person at the front is going slow, they are still likely to be pissed off at having to travel at the same speed.

Point four: Just because there were corners does not mean there were no safe places for following motorists to pass. Have you never overtaken on a corner in a car? In some cases you can see for quite some distance and this is the point I have been trying to make all along - Sunhuntin may not have felt safe with being passed, but it could have been quite safe for the motorists following her to do so - in which case she should have shown some consideration to them and moved to the left. Please find me the relevant page in the Road Code that says you must prevent motorists from passing you under any circumstances.

I've seen more shit thrown in some other posts without someone's dad stepping in to stop the fight! I would be just as vocal if she were a 40 year old male learner so I hope the reason is not because she's a GIRL!!!

Edit - Jim was obviously posting at the same time as me, but I'd like to say I second his comments.

[ManDownUnder]

Frosty - good thread mate.

If you break it down to keep it simple... I agree.

The only exception I can generalise with is when on the Motorway in the fast lane, I hop into the left track simply to give me "somewhere to go" if needed.

No hard and fast rules though (as has been proven by the amount of detailed discussion in the thread), I don't see sticking left or staying in the middle as a long term survival strategy.
MDU

[Ixion]

Point one: most drivers do not know that a learner is restricted to 70kph and therefore whether she had an L-plate or not, following motorists would most likely not be happy to be doing 70kph on an 100kph road. I was meaning if Erik was following her in a car - I wouldn't expect a rider to sit behind another rider travelling at 70kph unless they were riding with them.


Don't see that makes any difference. If I was following a car-driving learner , who was doing 70 on a twisty road (cos learners are often not too confident on twisty roads, car or bike), I hope I'd be pretty patient too. It's just being decent.

As far as I am aware there is NO NZ road that has a minimum speed limit. 100kph is the MAXIMUM speed allowed on the road, not a "everyone must do this speed or else" speed. ANY driver who elects to travel at under the 100kph figure is entitled to do so, for whatever reason, provided they are considerate of other drivers. Consideration of other drivers is something that sometimes would not go amiss from those travelling in excess of the limit, also.

I sometimes travel at under the speed limit. Because I do not think 100kph is safe; or because I want to enjoy the scenery; or because of any other number of reasons.

If you (hypothetical 'you", not anyone in particular) come up behind me , I will do my very best to get you past. In fact I really like people overtaking me, cos then I can use them as rabbits to flush out any cops that may be around. First in line, gets the fine. I don't mind in the least you overtaking me, I'll tuck in behind you, if you're not going at a lunatic rate, and let you get any tickets that are going.

But I will not endanger myself just to avoid the heinous crime of holding you (hypothetical again) up for a few seconds.

Overtaking on a corner ? Well, I've gone through a right hander hugging the left hand edge, with a cage right alongside me , a few inches from my right hand bar, all the way through the corner. I've experience to cope with it, but I still wouldn't say it makes me feel safe. And no way would I want to see a learner have to deal with that.
..



Point three: Fine if you are the one right behind someone with an L-plate - the however many drivers behind you may not either know or care why the person at the front is going slow, they are still likely to be pissed off at having to travel at the same speed.




If they get that pissed off at being delayed for 30 seconds , they need to take some sort of course.


..

I've seen more shit thrown in some other posts without someone's dad stepping in to stop the fight! I would be just as vocal if she were a 40 year old male learner so I hope the reason is not because she's a GIRL!!!

Edit - Jim was obviously posting at the same time as me, but I'd like to say I second his comments.

What the heck does being a girl have to do with anything? Who said anything about that ? And who is "dad" ? I'm not Ms Sunhunter's dad. Is Mr Erik ? His profile says that he rides a Yammy, Ms Sunhunter said somewhere that her dad rode a harley ?

This seems totally irrelevant.

[Beemer]

God, everyone seems to have lost their irony detector today! By "dad" I was meaning everyone who has suddenly leapt to Sunhuntin's defence - it was a figurative comment, not a literal one.

Not every car driver is a dangerous idiot who will put your life in danger if you dare to allow them the room to pass. I keep going back to the "prevent" them from passing statement.

I am stepping back from this thread now, I stand by my comments but some people, rightly or wrongly, have put their own interpretation on them. I am tired of explaining what I meant and I have better things to do.

[FlyingDutchMan]

God, everyone seems to have lost their irony detector today! By "dad" I was meaning everyone who has suddenly leapt to Sunhuntin's defence - it was a figurative comment, not a literal one.

Not every car driver is a dangerous idiot who will put your life in danger if you dare to allow them the room to pass. I keep going back to the "prevent" them from passing statement.

I am stepping back from this thread now, I stand by my comments but some people, rightly or wrongly, have put their own interpretation on them. I am tired of explaining what I meant and I have better things to do.


But some are, and unless you treat them all as idoits, you WILL get killed. I fully support Sunhunters position, and I did it too when I was on my learners. The very last thing you want is a cage a foot away from you mid corner (and it happened quite often when I had me GN125). If I thought it was safe place for them to pass I let them, otherwise no. It is only yourself who is fully resposible for your own safety.

[James Deuce]

But some are, and unless you treat them all as idoits, you WILL get killed. I fully support Sunhunters position, and I did it too when I was on my learners. The very last thing you want is a cage a foot away from you mid corner (and it happened quite often when I had me GN125). If I thought it was safe place for them to pass I let them, otherwise no. It is only yourself who is fully resposible for your own safety.

You're putting words in Beemers' mouth that just weren't there. We were suggesting that the attitude displayed was more dangerous than the action itself.

Having had a riding partner demolished by a fool in an SS Commodore who passed a line of traffic my riding partner was holding up traffic at 70km/hr on his L's, whilst traversing a mildly twisty section of SH2, I don't advocate actually complying with that law. Unfortunately that is a "bad" attitude too, whihc could result in financial penalties.

[Lou Girardin]

As far as I am aware there is NO NZ road that has a minimum speed limit. 100kph is the MAXIMUM speed allowed on the road, not a "everyone must do this speed or else" speed. ANY driver who elects to travel at under the 100kph figure is entitled to do so, for whatever reason, provided they are considerate of other drivers. Consideration of other drivers is something that sometimes would not go amiss from those travelling in excess of the limit, also.
.

There's a 40 km/h minimum on motorways.

[ManDownUnder]

There's a 40 km/h minimum on motorways.

If they issue tickets... there's a FORTUNE to be made at rush hour!

I'd suggest starting on the Northern Carpark, with the Southern and Nor Western Carparks follwing that!

They'd have about 2 hours to do their work so that should be ok...

MDU

[erik]

If they issue tickets... there's a FORTUNE to be made at rush hour!


:rofl: :killingme :niceone:

[Waylander]

If they issue tickets... there's a FORTUNE to be made at rush hour!

I'd suggest starting on the Northern Carpark, with the Southern and Nor Western Carparks follwing that!

They'd have about 2 hours to do their work so that should be ok...

MDU
And then due to the back up of peaple waiting to be ticketed will cause a bigger traffic backup and even more peaple to recieve tickets. By the gods why hasn't anybody thought of this before!!! It's the ultimate in revenue gathering!!

[Jantar]

There's a 40 km/h minimum on motorways.

Last time I travelled on the Southern Motorway out of Auckland, most vehicles were either stopped or travelling at less than 10 km/h

[Posh Tourer :P]

Bollocks.

If you don't want people to "leap to conclusions" then provide all the information.

In a forum post, or indeed an email, you cannot read intent or meaning if it isn't written down.

Rubbish. Sunhuntin read your post as a personal attack. You did not write 'I personally attack you'. You read her words (prevent people from passing) as an ongoing attitude. Words dont have just one meaning - you can be as assiduous as you like and someone will still misunderstand you. I thought you were too harsh in your language. Why not ask for some more info rather than rushing into a bollocking? If you were in a pub and you started shouting at me just because I'd said that, I'd get angry at you too - well actually no I wouldnt, I'd shout over you to get my point across that I wasnt such a bad guy after all - but I can see that some would get angry. What is the point in discussing anything with someone who appears to have made their mind up about you (not that I'm saying you had - see below)?

Of course this is all about how you argue, and I'm quite happy to have a shouting argument, as long as each side is open to a change of opinion, just as I'm happy to have a calm, civil slow argument... (or discussion, as I believe they are sometimes called)

[James Deuce]

Rubbish. Sunhuntin read your post as a personal attack. You did not write 'I personally attack you'. You read her words (prevent people from passing) as an ongoing attitude. Words dont have just one meaning - you can be as assiduous as you like and someone will still misunderstand you. I thought you were too harsh in your language. Why not ask for some more info rather than rushing into a bollocking? (snip)

Because I'm tired of watching "invulnerable" teens and 20 somethings die and get hurt because their "mentors" cared about their "feelings" and didn't deliver a bollocking when needed.

I don't give a crap about whether it was perceived as a personal attack or not. It obviously struck a chord, so maybe I achieved my desired end result, and someone is thinking about how their own mindset can affect how long they live. I seriously doubt it though.

[Beemer]

Words dont have just one meaning - you can be as assiduous as you like and someone will still misunderstand you.


Assiduous, as per the Collins English Dictionary: hard-working; persevering, or undertaken with perserverance and care.

Could you please clarify what you are implying or are you trying to be insidious?

[mstriumph]

:msn-wink: yup - agree with you - the ONLY hard and fast rule about road-positioning is that there IS no hard and fast rule...... newbies just have to have ALL their wits about them 110% of the time and adjust their positioning to suit watever comes next ...
Not quite true. You'll get yourself killed riding there - its smack in the cars blind spot.

What you *should* be doing is making sure you have a safe following distance of at least 3 secs (and yes it does require riding slow). Most of the riders I see tailgate because they think they have good brakes - yet you look in the wreckers and see how many bikes have mashed front ends.

Next you want to position yourself in your lane so that you can see the furthest both straight ahead and down side turnings. That means you have to change your position IN the lane fairly often and it also means you have to adjust your speed.

For a left hand side road, cars on the left and left hand obstruction its right side of lane, opposite for muck on the right.

Never follow behind a car, always about 6" to either side of it. That way, if you cock up an emergency brake, worst you'll do is pull up alongside.

You usually find that people who make firm rules about where to travel like always on the left or always on the right are the ones that have the most incidents because they dont seem to plan for the unexpected.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Because I'm tired of watching "invulnerable" teens and 20 somethings die and get hurt because their "mentors" cared about their "feelings" and didn't deliver a bollocking when needed.

I don't give a crap about whether it was perceived as a personal attack or not. It obviously struck a chord, so maybe I achieved my desired end result, and someone is thinking about how their own mindset can affect how long they live. I seriously doubt it though.

Some fair enough points. I'm all in favour of deserved bollockings (and perhaps use of restrained force). As long as it is deserved.....

To be honest, I've argued this past the point of what I believe, to get an honest, sensible reply. Both sides (relatively) happy, end of argument/discussion?......

[Posh Tourer :P]

Assiduous, as per the Collins English Dictionary: hard-working; persevering, or undertaken with perserverance and care.

Could you please clarify what you are implying or are you trying to be insidious?

Insidious, as per the Collins English Dictionary..........
....

err... I meant it in the latter sense.

Now to really get your mind going, look up the meaning of 'it'

[Beemer]

Insidious, as per the Collins English Dictionary..........
....

err... I meant it in the latter sense.

Now to really get your mind going, look up the meaning of 'it'

Mmn, the first meaning is VERY interesting - non-human, animal, plant or inanimate thing, or "sometimes to a small baby: it looks dangerous; give it a bone"

I think I prefer the last (informal) meaning - you know what 'it' is!