New Zealand bike prices WTF

[sfordnz]

i'm a geek because i like the look of the new bmw g650gs

but why is it...........

uk price 4920 British pounds = 9 876.80196 New Zealand dollars

us price 7900 U.S. dollars = 9 687.3084 New Zealand dollars

jeff gray bmw christchurch price = 16228 New Zealand dollars

W.T.F

[Blackshear]

Because it costs 7g to ship it here, obviously.

[Mom]

Bye bye...

[98tls]

Way cheaper to buy a bike overseas and get it sent over in bits,just remember to get the sender to value each box at $100.:banana:

[sfordnz]

Way cheaper to buy a bike overseas and get it sent over in bits,just remember to get the sender to value each box at $100.:banana:

they make the engine in china maybe they could send it direct , mite save a bit on the 7 grand freight

[Toaster]

Way cheaper to buy a bike overseas and get it sent over in bits,just remember to get the sender to value each box at $100.:banana:

Noted.:nya:

[98tls]

Noted.:nya:

Oh......and send the boxes over a few weeks.:nya:

[Oblivion]

Import Tax.

[macros87]

Import Tax.

what? like the UK and the US didn't have their own import tax?

[ellipsis]

...what...you wanna live in shakey paradise and have cheap thrills too...

[rapid van cleef]

BUT. in e uk inurance is compulsory and approx 4 times the price of here( just based on what i paid before i moved here)

fuel is way more expensive there and the weather is shit and u have to ride for a long way if you live in a city to get to the open roads, which are in a very bad state.

no contest

NZ wins

[Zadkiel]

Smaller country = smaller market = higher costs

In those countries the importers can bring in larger shipments, achieve more sales out of each office, etc. Also overheads like advertising and support costs are much more evenly spread over the number of dealers and bikes sold.

It's just the way it is. Go try and buy a house in London and the story will be reversed.

[jaffaonajappa]

actually....interesting topic.

Are these price variances across all brands, or just some?
How do we compare to Aussie?

I had recently seen brand new HD Sprtsters for just over 12k, and Suzuki GSX650's for 11k. Was thinking bike prices had actually become affordable again, compared to say 10 years ago.

[bogan]

Way cheaper to buy a bike overseas and get it sent over in bits,just remember to get the sender to value each box at $100.:banana:

Fly over to where it is cheaper, buy it, put a sand paddle tyre on it, maybe some pontoons or hydrofoils, and ride the bastard here :D

[YellowDog]

Because it costs 7g to ship it here, obviously.

US$495 from LA :yes:

[ukusa]

actually....interesting topic.

Are these price variances across all brands, or just some?
How do we compare to Aussie?

Aussie get screwed too, especially considering their $ is worth more than the yank.
I can't remember exact prices, but pretty sure a Triumph Thunderbird is around $20K in Aussie & in the US around $12 - $13K.

Accessories are the similar, which is why there is so much NZ money going overseas. I found this too;
http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news/2011/triumph-slashes-accessory-prices-24483
which is probably due to the recent strength of their dollar.
Interestingly I just bought a seat from the States for US$219 (NZ$268), in Aus it's AU$288 (NZ$375), here it's NZ$599.

[Brian d marge]

Friends just bought a new HD 48 and paid 1.8 million yen incl insurances ( loan) and on road charges (17 something...)
whats that about 27 000 NZ? what are they in NZ ..20 odd???

Stephen

[YellowDog]

Friends just bought a new HD 48 and paid 1.8 million yen incl insurances ( loan) and on road charges (17 something...)
whats that about 27 000 NZ? what are they in NZ ..20 odd???

Stephen

The Japs put tariffs on foreign bikes to encourage bikers to buy home brands.

I saved over $5k putting my new imported bike on the road. The one I wanted wasn't available in NZ.

The global pricing, excluding local tariffs is set at a fairly even rate to discourage such international trade. After I saved $5k importing, the pricing was adjusted again and it would not have been worth the hassle.

The NZ$ is very strong again against the GBPound and the US$. There are bargains to be had, particularly in the secondhand market and also with accessories. All you need to alloow for is shipping and GST charges.

It's a global marketplace. This is not your problem, the manufacurers should better protect their local representitves with a more responsive pricing matrix.

I wanted to buy locally however the dealer just wanted to screw me further by charging me $3k above the NZ price to import the very same bike and pay $8k more than I did.

At that time, importing was an easy decision to make.

[Swoop]

The dealers have to charge so much, so that they can stock an extensive range of spare parts here.







:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme

[martybabe]

I'm always surfing Trade me and the like in the eternal search for 'The next Bike' and I'm quite often shocked at the money people ask for machines. This is the winner at the moment though...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-384632336.htm

Yours from as little as $991 a week :lol:

[Gremlin]

I'm always surfing Trade me and the like in the eternal search for 'The next Bike' and I'm quite often shocked at the money people ask for machines. This is the winner at the moment though...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-384632336.htm

Yours from as little as $991 a week :lol:
But hang on, they'll deliver it for free, or even pay for you to fly to them, to collect, if you wish.

A bargain surely? :killingme

[Brian d marge]

I'm always surfing Trade me and the like in the eternal search for 'The next Bike' and I'm quite often shocked at the money people ask for machines. This is the winner at the moment though...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-384632336.htm

Yours from as little as $991 a week :lol:

Me too and There are some HEAVY drugs being used ...if some of those prices are to be believed ....

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

The Japs put tariffs on foreign bikes to encourage bikers to buy home brands.

I saved over $5k putting my new imported bike on the road. The one I wanted wasn't available in NZ.

The global pricing, excluding local tariffs is set at a fairly even rate to discourage such international trade. After I saved $5k importing, the pricing was adjusted again and it would not have been worth the hassle.

The NZ$ is very strong again against the GB Pound and the US$. There are bargains to be had, particularly in the secondhand market and also with accessories. All you need to allow for is shipping and GST charges.

It's a global marketplace. This is not your problem, the manufacturers should better protect their local Representatives with a more responsive pricing matrix.

I wanted to buy locally however the dealer just wanted to screw me further by charging me $3k above the NZ price to import the very same bike and pay $8k more than I did.

At that time, importing was an easy decision to make.

Had forgotten about that

Thing is though , when all said and done 2 e6 yen ...is quite affordable , ( except for me )
Another friend , I will see in a few min bought a BMW the sports bike thingy , and at the end of the day ..I think we worked it out per month to about the same as I spend on my hobby ( drinking) about 20 or 30 000 yen ...and that was with 2 years servicing and insurance ...

Me ...... I build my own ....Its a wife thing you know


Stephen

[Waxxa]

conversion rates and freight are one thing. But running a business is expensive in NZ; rates, leases, signage, marketing, technology, ACC levies, Kiwisaver, minimum wage, insurance, public liability insurance, staff stealing toilet rolls...the list goes on!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Friends just bought a new HD 48 and paid 1.8 million yen incl insurances ( loan) and on road charges (17 something...)
whats that about 27 000 NZ? what are they in NZ ..20 odd???

Stephen

$16595.00 on the road.

[HenryDorsetCase]

i'm a geek because i like the look of the new bmw g650gs

but why is it...........

uk price 4920 British pounds = 9 876.80196 New Zealand dollars

us price 7900 U.S. dollars = 9 687.3084 New Zealand dollars

jeff gray bmw christchurch price = 16228 New Zealand dollars

W.T.F

i donno but is this just another reason to leave unzud

do the US and UK prices include their sales taxes? Probably there is + VAT on the UK price, and applicable federal, state and local taxes in the US. the price you quoted includes GST remember.

but you know, whatever, the price is the price. For that money you could get a base model Street Triple new, or a secondhand R.

[HenryDorsetCase]

conversion rates and freight are one thing. But running a business is expensive in NZ; rates, leases, signage, marketing, technology, ACC levies, Kiwisaver, minimum wage, insurance, public liability insurance, staff stealing toilet rolls...the list goes on!

cry me a river: you think it is less expensive OVER THERE?

[fliplid]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-384632336.htm
Yours from as little as $991 a week :lol:
You've got to stump up $37,500 as down payment as well though.

[Taz]

You've got to stump up $37,500 as down payment as well though.

And it still looks like a Yamaha SRV.

[BIG DOUG]

Ok I have been a judge at the national m/c show where the road rage was entered,apart from the engine and gearbox internals it is all handmade and is the only one of its type making it exclusive.If I had 150g's I would buy it tomorrow as its a work of art as for bike prices just look at the sales figures of those countrys and then check ours we are way down the food chain for volume of sales.

[cleverchap]

Because it costs 7g to ship it here, obviously.

With all the empty car transporter boats coming back from Europe, shipping vehicles is very cheap.

[pete376403]

I'm always surfing Trade me and the like in the eternal search for 'The next Bike' and I'm quite often shocked at the money people ask for machines. This is the winner at the moment though...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-384632336.htm

Yours from as little as $991 a week :lol:
Destiny Church company vehicle

[Brian d marge]

Ok I have been a judge at the national m/c show where the road rage was entered,apart from the engine and gearbox internals it is all handmade and is the only one of its type making it exclusive.If I had 150g's I would buy it tomorrow as its a work of art as for bike prices just look at the sales figures of those countrys and then check ours we are way down the food chain for volume of sales.

If you buy that for 150 . we is round your place to rape your refrigerator ...

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

lets see ,,,I Have a frame ..100 bucks of trade me ,,,an olds SU carb from a mini ... and old Enfield engine ( well bits of one from the last race meeting )

Wheels ....Hmmmm .what have i got in the parts bin ....

Well one thing is for sure its going to be cheap

Stephen

[imdying]

What was the exchange rate when the bikes in NZ today were paid for (and is that even before they're shipped, how far back would we have to go to see why we have the price we have)?

When they set the price in NZ, do they set it at a level that will let them absorb some fluctuations in the exchange rate?

[YellowDog]

What was the exchange rate when the bikes in NZ today were paid for (and is that even before they're shipped, how far back would we have to go to see why we have the price we have)?

When they set the price in NZ, do they set it at a level that will let them absorb some fluctuations in the exchange rate?

That's a fair point and if a dealer buys at a high price and the bikes aren't shifting....

The last time Triumph restructured their pricing, the NZ$ US$ and GBPound prices were fairly equal.

A >40% currency fluctuation band can be quite a problem for international traders. You ask Frontera.

Most countries align their currency with that of their key partners and hence don't have this problem.

EDIT: Like NZ does with AUS

It's a shame that Holden don't make motorcycles :)

[Metastable]

There are so many factors that go into things, however... ya your prices down there are a fair bit more than what we pay here for some things. There are others that you guys are on par or even better off.

We have some huge price disparities between Canada and the US. Owning a business here we find that many consumers are short sighted when they compare a similar product in the US. One of our biggest problems is that import duties in the US are often significantly less than they are in Canada. Plus we pay more for the product from the distributor or manufacturer..... so we have to charge more.

Now there are times that it simply doesn't make sense. For example, you get cars MADE IN CANADA that cost significantly less to buy in the US!!!! Now that's just not right. :D

I know you guys have a relatively small market, so that's my guess as to part of the reason for the higher prices. You have to figure your dealers probably live off smaller sales volumes than many of the places in the US, so they need to make more per bike and I'm sure they pay more for their products than the dealers in the US.

As far as the prices you see in N. America, take into consideration that does NOT include taxes. The taxes vary greatly from province to province and state to state. Also, there are often delivery fees and other BS charges not included in the price of vehicles. However, in the motorcycle market, one usually always has the opportunity to get some wicked deals if you are patient.

Like check this out for example... and yes it is a 09, but brand new:
http://www.blackfootonline.com/moto_productdetail.php?id=2043

Or how about this:
http://www.blackfootonline.com/moto_productdetail.php?id=2669

[mulletman]

Like check this out for example... and yes it is a 09, but brand new:
http://www.blackfootonline.com/moto_productdetail.php?id=2043

Or how about this:
http://www.blackfootonline.com/moto_productdetail.php?id=2669[/QUOTE]

Shit that aint bad :gob::gob:

[jaffaonajappa]

yeah, nice prices.

Just confirming.....NZ$13,000 = CAN$10,000, yeah?

[Metastable]

Ya that's about right... currently something like 1.26.

[ukusa]

Now there are times that it simply doesn't make sense. For example, you get cars MADE IN CANADA that cost significantly less to buy in the US!!!! Now that's just not right.

Just like our butter, milk, cheese, beef & lamb.

Problem with NZ is the place is so small, there is usually only 1 dealer for each brand of bike in the larger cities. You can't go somewhere else to buy. They all have the same distributor too, so prices are pretty much preset.

[BMWST?]

Just like our butter, milk, cheese, beef & lamb.

Problem with NZ is the place is so small, there is usually only 1 dealer for each brand of bike in the larger cities. You can't go somewhere else to buy. They all have the same distributor too, so prices are pretty much preset.

and they all have the same costs.Its about freight (we are about the furthest away)
and tiny volumes.Dont forget the whole population of NZ is less than some cities

[YellowDog]

Aussieland is no better.

Time to join forces and negotiate better prices for a combined and larger market.

[Metastable]

Well..... ya you guys do get shafted for a lot of things when it comes to price. However.... there is a benefit to this too. We LOVED the uncrowded nature of New Zealand. It is hard to believe there are only 4 million people living there. Geez... where I am at now there are about 7 million within a 1 hour radius. That's too much.

So, ya you are going to pay more for certain things, but there is a huge lifestyle advantage as well. Furthermore, because you guys are further away, one thing that you guys should be very proud of.... is that you have a lot of high quality stuff made/produced locally. Take Kiwirider magazine for example. That magazine is better than any mag you can find in Canada or the US.... only the British magazines are similar in quality.

[racefactory]

i'm a geek because i like the look of the new bmw g650gs

but why is it...........

uk price 4920 British pounds = 9 876.80196 New Zealand dollars

us price 7900 U.S. dollars = 9 687.3084 New Zealand dollars

jeff gray bmw christchurch price = 16228 New Zealand dollars

W.T.F

i donno but is this just another reason to leave unzud

Get out of the country then you moron. Open your eyes.

[Ocean1]

I'm interested in this. I've been trying to work out why NZ prices for almost everything are so OTT. At one stage I even modeled every variable I could think of, nothing in that analisys showed up any hidden overheads of a size that would explain the price differences.

And yet there's companies that have failed here that were running on almost directly comparable business models to sucessful overseas branches of the same business.

I just don't gedit. The closest I can get to a causal link is the preponderance of monopolies here, they add compounding costs to the supply chain.

I'd love some clever bastard to explain it to me in simple terms.

[Daffyd]

I'd love some clever bastard to explain it to me in simple terms.

How about some simple bastard explaining it to you in clever terms?

[Ocean1]

How about some simple bastard explaining it to you in clever terms?

No shortage of that in the financial pages.

How about a simple bastard explaining it in simple terms.

Without taking his shoes off.

[Daffyd]

I can't improve on that one!

[YellowDog]

There were very similar problems in the UK before you COULD go elsewhere.

Back in the day when the UK manufactured cars, punters were getting fed up with being ripped off in a closed and protected market. Once it became common knowledge that you could buy an English Car (RHD) made in the UK from a Dutch or Belgium car dealer for 20% less than a UK dealer would sell it to you, then the piss-taking market had to change.

The low volume high market NZ culture has been changing of late with the Asian business methods migrating across, however some also seem quite happy to take the high profits too.

Whereas in the UK, you have very cheap and easy access to Europe, forcing the home market to evolve, we don't have this here in that we CANT go elsewhere.

OR CAN WE ?

The sooner the home market realises that it will be losing business and their livelyhood if they don't change (rather than whinging about traitor punters) the better.

Me thinks that - We'd all rather buy from NZ dealers - I would.

Whitcoulls is a great example of such ignotant stupidity. They lost out because they refused to meet the market. Many believe they are losing business to the internet and foreign players. This was their own fault. They had the opportuinity to take this business, but chose not to.

Postie Plus decided to embrace the new market and hence doubled its profits. It wasn't difficult, they just reduced their prices to meet the market. Clearly not run by the dumb arses running some struggling business sectors.

When given the choice of taking less cash or going bust, many choose to go bust.

[sfordnz]

Get out of the country then you moron. Open your eyes.

thanks for calling me a moron.

[ukusa]

When given the choice of taking less cash or going bust, many choose to go bust.

it's all a numbers game, take less profit per item, but sell more items.
I still think the importers/agents are where it's got to start.

I also believe that many shop rents in NZ are far too high. The building owners seem to think some shops are making far too much money, so up go the rents. A mate with a car sales has to sell on average 4 vehicles per week just to cover the rent/lease.

[HenryDorsetCase]

it's all a numbers game, take less profit per item, but sell more items.
I still think the importers/agents are where it's got to start.

I also believe that many shop rents in NZ are far too high. The building owners seem to think some shops are making far too much money, so up go the rents. A mate with a car sales has to sell on average 4 vehicles per week just to cover the rent/lease.

have a look at a lease for a shop in a mall. they are unbelievable: really expensive, and they want to see your books every year so they can ding you an extra % based on turnover. they say well, Westfield is a destination, our location means your business is successful.

thats why malls all look the same, with the same stores in, mainly chainstores.

I hate shopping malls.

[Ocean1]

have a look at a lease for a shop in a mall. they are unbelievable: really expensive, and they want to see your books every year so they can ding you an extra % based on turnover. they say well, Westfield is a destination, our location means your business is successful.

Percentage leases, common enough overseas. The base rates do tend to be fuck all overseas, though, cost of the asset itself , no more.


I hate shopping malls.

Unfortunately that makes just the two if us, the vast majority of suckers like paying vastly inflated prices for their chinese imports.

[SS90]

No shortage of that in the financial pages.

How about a simple bastard explaining it in simple terms.

Without taking his shoes off.

Ok then.

Geographic isolation aside, the major reasons for the NZ bike industry requiring vastly different operation models is simple......... It's already been mentioned, but it is simply market size.

Modern bike shops are, predominately, world wide, based on floor plan business models (for the uninitiated, that means bikes are supplied to dealers payment free for a period....... Of say... 3 months, after which the dealer either pays for them...or.... Pays a substantial interest until such time as that bike is paid for (logically this requires the bike to behold to a customer)

In bigger (pretty much any where else in the world) markets, this is, if you do your job right, normally a pretty simple task, as, the distributors spend significant time and money not only researching public demand for specific models, but also increasing their market share (not only their brand, but also joining forces with other brands and creating industry co-operatives that are designed to simply get more bums on seats.), thereby increasing evryones market share.

This is only possible when you have big market to sell your bikes.

In a small market like NZ, (with no specific import tariffs, other than GST) imports are readily available, making a small market, even smaller, so much so, that I remember when a large NZ well known brand importer started importing grey imports of their own bikes, available to sell to anyone in their dealer network, just to get a nibble of the pie that was on the table..... Crazy, but 100% true.

So we have a somewhat unique situation in NZ..... The worldwide business model of "floor plan" (the same business model that almost crippled H.D when the financial crisis hit the states) really is not a runner when applied to our market (simply because of the size of our market), granted plenty of shops operate on this scheme, but remember there have been many shops close their doors over the last 18 months...... And when "that bike comes up for payment," sales people get quite some pressure to sell, and, in many cases, customers are talked into buying bikes that just don't suit their needs, often resulting in punters leaving the market altogether......

The NZ market is somewhat unique, I read time and time again how people want "modern mall style" trading hours and staff numbers, but the fact remains... The old shops remain in NZ, operating on the same business model hay always have... Because in NZ, that's the only thing that works.... Anything else is courting disaster.

[shafty]

................So I'm tripping around the USA next month, --- what should I look for to send home? A few "Barn find " 1970's Jappa's? Suggest away..........

Cheers

[imdying]

lol, Canada :killingme


I hate shopping malls.Me, I love em. I hate shopping, so having everything in one place, where's it's warm and everything accessible so I can get in, do my shit, and then get the hell out... perfect :yes:

[maxlev]

Dented front wheel on a pot hole. BMW 3 spoke alloy.
Asked dealer for price of new one, $650
He later corrected that to $1158

Got a price from a dealer in Germany $300 euro
At the time $300 euro was $600 nz.

Took it to Cambridge where it was straightened for $90.

I put it down to greed.

[HenryDorsetCase]

lol, Canada :killingme

Me, I love em. I hate shopping, so having everything in one place, where's it's warm and everything accessible so I can get in, do my shit, and then get the hell out... perfect :yes:

whenever I go* I end up being a pack mule for SWMBO and "we'll just have a wee look here"

*about once every 3 years

[imdying]

Remember, when she says "Just a wee look"...

<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N4KOZBmn0ng/TZqRh8bnwBI/AAAAAAAAAW4/hCMjwnVF8RI/s1600/its-a-trap1.jpg" />

[jaffaonajappa]

thanks for calling me a moron.

While it wasnt me that did that....I do want to note....its getting tiresome, people posting on these forums about how baaaaad it is in NZ, and how great it is everywhere else. The whingers just need to shut up and move out, and let the rest of us get on with living in the most beautiful land in the world. The 'cost' of living in the the most beautiful land? - perhaps its the prices we pay for things made in the ugly and polluted lands.

[sfordnz]

While it wasnt me that did that....I do want to note....its getting tiresome, people posting on these forums about how baaaaad it is in NZ, and how great it is everywhere else. The whingers just need to shut up and move out, and let the rest of us get on with living in the most beautiful land in the world. The 'cost' of living in the the most beautiful land? - perhaps its the prices we pay for things made in the ugly and polluted lands.

i know what your saying, it's just hard work living in chch and no i can't just leave, unless you wanna swap houses and jobs but then i'd have to live in auckland, i guess i could down grade from mud and broken stuff to jaffaland:lol:

what i was trying to say and the misunderstood point because i'm crap at writing stuff they way i meen it was that we live in this place yet we let people like dealers tell us what we should expect...... like 16k for a chinese bmw because we are soooooo far away and sooooo different to the rest of the world.
when we can at one click prove them wrong.... like 10k for a chinese bmw.
i know that there are costs and every other reason but its not good enough
bike shops a going broke and they think the way to trade out of it is to inflate the price and that means less riders, less riders means smaller voice which means the more we get fucked by "THE MAN" which means less buyers of new bikes and all we the public do is click and it arrives half price from over seas
(my brother got his new helmut from the uk in 5 days $250 local price $560 if it had have been $300 here he would have brought it here .. everones got a story like this)
how about this..... dealer sells one at 16k makes 5k profit, good or dealer sells 4 at 12k makes 5k profit then has an ongoing income from servicing and parts, better
maybe then bike shops will be what the should be places owned by bike riders who just wanna make a living doing what they like without the flash car and the flash building with the white tiles on the floor an big titted girl at the desk in leather pants ,,, maybe they can keep the girl
not places for wankers selling t shirts and coffee
these places do exist (refer dirt action saxon st chch) and they are cool


rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

[jaffaonajappa]

rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

Nah mate, your all good. Perhaps difficult to see exactly what your point was to start with, but yeah, your pretty much on the mark.

The fellas on the site that go abusing others like that, 'name calling' whatever - they're armchair internet heroes usually, and not to be seen anywhere when the cards fall in real life. Well often thats the case....

Whinging. To be honest mate, if your living in Chch....your entitled to a bit of a whine.:calm:

[Ocean1]

bikes are supplied to dealers payment free for a period....... Of say... 3 months, after which the dealer either pays for them

Mate, almost every other business in NZ would kill for terms like that. You're basically saying there's too many dealers for the number of bikes sold. It may be in the distributors interest to maintain that situation, but why should the market pay extra to bolster shops that aren't otherwise viable?

There's always a reason NZ prices are higher, but they usually smell mighty like excuses to me.

[Big Dave]

I'd love some bastard to explain it to me in simple terms.

There's no cahunt here so shit costs more.

[jaffaonajappa]

There's no cahunt here so shit costs more.

BD, your a cunning bugger....

[Big Dave]

Fixed.<tenchars> </tenchars>

[BMWST?]

i know what your saying, it's just hard work living in chch and no i can't just leave, unless you wanna swap houses and jobs but then i'd have to live in auckland, i guess i could down grade from mud and broken stuff to jaffaland:lol:

what i was trying to say and the misunderstood point because i'm crap at writing stuff they way i meen it was that we live in this place yet we let people like dealers tell us what we should expect...... like 16k for a chinese bmw because we are soooooo far away and sooooo different to the rest of the world.
when we can at one click prove them wrong.... like 10k for a chinese bmw.
i know that there are costs and every other reason but its not good enough
bike shops a going broke and they think the way to trade out of it is to inflate the price and that means less riders, less riders means smaller voice which means the more we get fucked by "THE MAN" which means less buyers of new bikes and all we the public do is click and it arrives half price from over seas
(my brother got his new helmut from the uk in 5 days $250 local price $560 if it had have been $300 here he would have brought it here .. everones got a story like this)
how about this..... dealer sells one at 16k makes 5k profit, good or dealer sells 4 at 12k makes 5k profit then has an ongoing income from servicing and parts, better
maybe then bike shops will be what the should be places owned by bike riders who just wanna make a living doing what they like without the flash car and the flash building with the white tiles on the floor an big titted girl at the desk in leather pants ,,, maybe they can keep the girl
not places for wankers selling t shirts and coffee
these places do exist (refer dirt action saxon st chch) and they are cool


rant over hope i made sense if not don't write i'm a moron because i cant spell or a whinger because you don't agree just go and say something nice to someone else and think i'm an idiot to yourself

i bet the dealers would absolutley love to have a 5k margin on a 16 k bike..

[tigertim20]

serious question, why dont people open up specific, to-order motorcycle importing businesses, where a customer can pay a nominal fee to a company which imports excess overseas stock, landing the customer a new bike at a price substantially discounted from the standard NZ floor price?

Would covering manufacturer warranties be an issue if the bike is sourced overseas, or would the manufacturer still have to honour factory warranties via a local brand specific agent, even if that agent wasnt responsible for the sale?

[Metastable]

To answer your question.... the manufacturers can do what they want. Over here, some do not honour warranties if the bike was bought in the US, but some do. I don't think the warranties are a big deal anyway. Most of these products are pretty reliable. Plus if you could pay 3,000 less for something, you could probably fix a problem for less than that anyway.

Also, over here some OEMs do not let their dealers sell new bikes to Canadians.

I was actually amazed at how many motorcycle shops you guys have down there. Most of ours died in the last few years. Honda decided to introduce their "powerhouse" concept (all Honda products under 1 roof) and pulled bikes from the existing motorcycle shops. Now the whole industry here is a mess. The powerhouse concepts are not working and many of the motorcycle dealers that use to sell Hondas have since closed.

There is another variable too.... how much do the OEMs charge the dealers in New Zealand vs other countries? Part of the problem could be the OEMs themselves. Dunno. I wouldn't go blaming the dealers right away.... there are lots of variables here.

Also - what are your import duties on Motorcycles?

[SS90]

Mate, almost every other business in NZ would kill for terms like that. You're basically saying there's too many dealers for the number of bikes sold. It may be in the distributors interest to maintain that situation, but why should the market pay extra to bolster shops that aren't otherwise viable?

There's always a reason NZ prices are higher, but they usually smell mighty like excuses to me.

floor plans, plain and simple, are a necessary evil for the motorcycle industry.... in accounting terms, a business needs to be making a 20% return to be worthwhile..... I assure you, few bike shops achieve that.

If a bike shop was to have all the units in stock, paid for, the investment (in stock alone) would be unbelievable, quite simply, the director(s) of said bike shop would be better off investing the $400,000 it would cost to have even a basic model range in something that made a resonable return.... like property....or a hotdog stand.... or a bar.

The fact remains, floor plans are (almost) the only reason we have any dealers in NZ at all.... and the number of dealers in NZ is (still) too high.... like natural selection, the strong are surviving (strong meaning established), the weak are being devoured.

[sfordnz]

i bet the dealers would absolutley love to have a 5k margin on a 16 k bike..

what is the margin?

[SS90]

what is the margin?

A "good" dealer margin is something like 18%, but most of the time it is considerably less...... On a 20k bike expect something like $1500 - $2000 as a margin.... That's before you enter the "trade-in" in to the equation..... That's why many dealers are reluctant to do trade-ins at all..... Let alone what some (most) punters want/expect.

The majority of the new bike margins are well below the 20% mark, so "the whole package" is required to make a bike shop tick.... Workshop, parts department, accessories..... They all need to be operated profitability, just to "prop up" the sales departments..... This concept is worldwide by the way, which is why NZ bike shops charge quite high labour rates these days.... Even compared to 5 years ago.... They simply have to to cover the shortfall from the weak retail sales, and their puney margins..... Ever noticed the mark up on Beer in a pub..... We need a "kiwidrinker" website we can discuss that on.

[lakedaemonian]

To answer your question.... the manufacturers can do what they want. Over here, some do not honour warranties if the bike was bought in the US, but some do. I don't think the warranties are a big deal anyway. Most of these products are pretty reliable. Plus if you could pay 3,000 less for something, you could probably fix a problem for less than that anyway.

Also, over here some OEMs do not let their dealers sell new bikes to Canadians.

I was actually amazed at how many motorcycle shops you guys have down there. Most of ours died in the last few years. Honda decided to introduce their "powerhouse" concept (all Honda products under 1 roof) and pulled bikes from the existing motorcycle shops. Now the whole industry here is a mess. The powerhouse concepts are not working and many of the motorcycle dealers that use to sell Hondas have since closed.

There is another variable too.... how much do the OEMs charge the dealers in New Zealand vs other countries? Part of the problem could be the OEMs themselves. Dunno. I wouldn't go blaming the dealers right away.... there are lots of variables here.

Also - what are your import duties on Motorcycles?

Personally, I think the Honda Powerhouse concept COULD have worked had there simply been a limited number of Powerhouse Honda dealers(maybe manin dealer point running 1 or more associated minimal satellite points), and FORMER Honda(non Car) dealers....meaning sack a heap of dealer points.

The problem I see is that due to the number of independant dealer points.....a Honda dealer is competing more against his/her fellow Honda dealers, than against the other brands....same goes for Suzuki, etc.

A great example is what's been happening in the US.

While many would perceive US manufactured cars to be of inferior quality to Japanese the facts show that the differences are often quite negligible in terms of build quality and reliability.

The biggest differences I see are the fact that Toyota dealers in the US typically sell 3-6 times as many cars as the average Chevy dealer for example(based on figures from approx 2008-2009 when I last ran the maths).

So the average Toyota dealer was selling quite a few more cars than the average Chevy dealer, with increased likelihood of profitability and reduced likelihood of cannobalized sales between Totota dealers when compared with Chevy for example.

So Toyota dealers were/are competing against Chevy dealers.....while Chevy dealers were/are competing against OTHER Chevy dealers.....resulting in a downward spiral of competing on price, not quality.....and unable to compete on service....since they no longer have the profits to invest in a high level of service.

Having the right number of dealer points is key.......my opinion of the NZ motorcycle industry hasn't changed in the 10+ years I've been involved in it....too many dealer points.

As far as bike pricing goes....manufacturers/distributors are big supertankers trying to maneuver through a minefield of currency cross-rate volatility between 1st world nations that is simply insane.

Look at the relationship between the NZ Dollar and the US Dollar......in 2000 the Kiwi bought 0.40 US cents.........today it buys over 0.80 US cents...more than double....and it's been a rather crazy roller coaster ride up and down along the way.

It's hard to manage actual/perceived product value new and 2nd hand in such an environment.

It's like playing the game of monopoly when every roll of the dice to move your piece the value of your property AND currency changes unexpectedly with every 3rd roll.

We live in interesting times.......and the advent of the internet combined with the ability to quickly(and relatively cheaply) ships high value, small cube products around the world overnight really brings this currency volatility to the fore for enthusiasts of motorcycling, hunting, scuba-diving, photography, etc, etc, etc.

It's worth mentioning that it wasn't all that long ago that it simply wouldn't have been feasible for nearly everyone to import their own anything...not because of the lack of the internet or lack of overnight shipping, but the lack of foreign currency or legal financial freedom to do so.

What does the future hold?

Hopefully some reduced volatility and increased financial stability....but I suspect it will get crazier(meaning possibly better deals....or NO deals if you live in the next Argentina) before it improves.

The smart, agile, and lucky will survive....the stupid, slow, and unlucky will perish.

[Big Dave]

Suggested retail prices don't even fix it. They buy the business with the Trade in.

[lakedaemonian]

floor plans, plain and simple, are a necessary evil for the motorcycle industry.... in accounting terms, a business needs to be making a 20% return to be worthwhile..... I assure you, few bike shops achieve that.

If a bike shop was to have all the units in stock, paid for, the investment (in stock alone) would be unbelievable, quite simply, the director(s) of said bike shop would be better off investing the $400,000 it would cost to have even a basic model range in something that made a resonable return.... like property....or a hotdog stand.... or a bar.

The fact remains, floor plans are (almost) the only reason we have any dealers in NZ at all.... and the number of dealers in NZ is (still) too high.... like natural selection, the strong are surviving (strong meaning established), the weak are being devoured.

Yes and no......

I agree completely that if floorplans got pulled from NZ, much like they were in many dealer points in the US car/motorbike trade a couple years ago, many dealers would simply cease to exist...and that's what happened over there.

I distinctly recall being in a US airport terminal in 2008 where a certain European brand of motorcycles was being discussed by representative dealers(I knew a pair of them) who had just finished their dealer meeting and were flying home.....they were ALL(several dozen there) told they've lost their floorplan and retail finance, cold turkey, overnight. It was chaos.....a whole bun ch of them are gone now.

But some dealers don't use floorplan at all....and if you manage your floor stock well.....and turn it at a rate faster than your competition(who's probably using floorplan as you stated) you ultimately win because your carrying costs are potentially far, far lower.

[lakedaemonian]

Suggested retail prices don't even fix it. They buy the business with the Trade in.

For those paying attention. Suggested Retail Prices/RRPs are no longer constants for a model year...they are now changing through the Model Year, or at least reviewed....looking at the fine print on brand RRP pricing will point that fact out...and it's been spreading through the industry to be a little more obvious.

[Beren]

serious question, why dont people open up specific, to-order motorcycle importing businesses, where a customer can pay a nominal fee to a company which imports excess overseas stock, landing the customer a new bike at a price substantially discounted from the standard NZ floor price?

Would covering manufacturer warranties be an issue if the bike is sourced overseas, or would the manufacturer still have to honour factory warranties via a local brand specific agent, even if that agent wasnt responsible for the sale?

Not entirely certain - but I certainly intend to find out :) Sounds like there might be a tiny little baby hole in ze market.

[lakedaemonian]

Not entirely certain - but I certainly intend to find out :) Sounds like there might be a tiny little baby hole in ze market.

A couple folks are doing it and advertising for it now in bike magazines.

Although it would probably be best to look at it as a "pop up" business...much like those that are "popping up" on ultra short term leases in all the empty commercial real estate throughout the US and UK.

You would need to be careful in how it's organized....if you are deemed the importer/retailer you are on the hook for CGA.

If you are a facilitator? Probably not....but you'd be suprised at how things can go or be interpreted...and that can get expensive...since probably no distributor or retailer will want to know you.

In the last 10 years we've seen bikes/cars exported out of NZ when our currency was too low......and then we saw a GOOD bit imported in waves through parts of 2005-2008 timeframe...we could be seeing another wave now....but I suspect with purchasing power and retail sales down in NZ there will be fewer willing to take the punt to do it.

Retail arbitrage.

There's opportunity in it I'm sure...but could be fleeting.

[Big Dave]

For those paying attention. Suggested Retail Prices/RRPs are no longer constants for a model year...they are now changing through the Model Year, or at least reviewed....looking at the fine print on brand RRP pricing will point that fact out...and it's been spreading through the industry to be a little more obvious.

Doesn't make any difference on the floors though - they still cut the margin on deals to get them off competing dealers. Lots of ways to fiddle it. New hat sir?

[clint640]

i'm a geek because i like the look of the new bmw g650gs

but why is it...........

uk price 4920 British pounds = 9 876.80196 New Zealand dollars

us price 7900 U.S. dollars = 9 687.3084 New Zealand dollars

jeff gray bmw christchurch price = 16228 New Zealand dollars

W.T.F

Sounds like a fully excellent excuse to fly to the UK, buy the object of your geeky lust, ride it around scenic bits of Europe for a few weeks, ship it back, pay GST etc & still come out ahead :2thumbsup Don't get mad, get even.

I am amazed more people don't do this given the price differences. It's certainly something I'd consider if buying a new bike. A free overseas biking holiday is not to be sneezed at.

Clint

[Beren]

There's opportunity in it I'm sure...but could be fleeting.

I would guess that the best way to work would be as an agent for the NZ customer... So dealing with US/China/Japanese purchase, shipment and putting the bike together. So that the consumer doesn't have to. It would be trying to sort out potential warranty issues that would be tricky.

[Grubber]

And it still looks like a Yamaha SRV.

Na....the Yamaha doesn't look that bad.
My god it looks like a piece if turd to me!

[lakedaemonian]

Doesn't make any difference on the floors though - they still cut the margin on deals to get them off competing dealers. Lots of ways to fiddle it. New hat sir?

The funny thing is......even though the customer expectation is to see prices DROP...due to the high flying Kiwi.....my GUESS is that factory/distributor RRP "price reviews" or "2012 RRP prices good until XX/XX/XXXX" are to cushion blowback of future price INCREASES.

I don't have ANY idea of what prices are going to be for any brand for 2012.....but until two years ago prices set for the Model Year pretty much stayed that way throughout the year....bar the "runoff specials" and such.

I honestly believe from seeing behind the curtain the purpose for the re-pricing is not to obscure the truth, but to protect themselves a little better when the volatility swings back hard the other way through higher manufacturing cost inputs/lower currency/lower # dealer points giving some pricing control back to dealers/distributors.

I am definitely no sir...I work for a living(always wanted to say that) :)

[jaffaonajappa]

I am definitely no sir...I work for a living(always wanted to say that) :)

Hahahaha, R+ Staff.

[lakedaemonian]

I would guess that the best way to work would be as an agent for the NZ customer... So dealing with US/China/Japanese purchase, shipment and putting the bike together. So that the consumer doesn't have to. It would be trying to sort out potential warranty issues that would be tricky.

If you could be a "facilitator" rather than an "importer/retailer" you might be exempt from the CGA.

Just have to be careful, otherwise you could be caught in the CGA net...it's happened before...and is happening again now with Tenders by the looks of things.

Something to ponder might be some sort of bridge financing......since a rather substantial % of bike buyers do NOT actually pay cash...arranging finance and putting a finance "hook" on overseas property isn't easy....maybe the property's able to be borrowed against once ON the boat...meaning only bridge finance from purchase to boat, then maybe converts to normal loan...it widens the potential customer base that way....Jap car import to order folks would be the go to folks for something like that....same with freight/customs folks dealing with North America and Europe.

A couple years ago, here in NZ, factory warranties on parallel imports were still covered.....not so much anymore....distributors are pushing back hard....can't blame them with parallel importers trying to ride their back.....they have to try and differentiate apples from parallel imported apples.....best to make the parallel imported apples look like relative lemons in comparison. :)

Back in the 80's Mercedes has a popular program(due to favorable USD/DeutchMark exchange rate) of people buying Mercs from dealers in the US and taking delivery in Stuttgart and taking a tiki tour in their car before dropping it at the port and flying home.

Lifestyle option again for some well loved brands maybe, updated for the 21st century.

[Robert Taylor]

The funny thing is......even though the customer expectation is to see prices DROP...due to the high flying Kiwi.....my GUESS is that factory/distributor RRP "price reviews" or "2012 RRP prices good until XX/XX/XXXX" are to cushion blowback of future price INCREASES.

I don't have ANY idea of what prices are going to be for any brand for 2012.....but until two years ago prices set for the Model Year pretty much stayed that way throughout the year....bar the "runoff specials" and such.

I honestly believe from seeing behind the curtain the purpose for the re-pricing is not to obscure the truth, but to protect themselves a little better when the volatility swings back hard the other way through higher manufacturing cost inputs/lower currency/lower # dealer points giving some pricing control back to dealers/distributors.

I am definitely no sir...I work for a living(always wanted to say that) :)

Stock also has to be ordered many months in advance by distributors in line with production schedules. You just cannot order it any old time. Often the buy price is ''unfavourable'' when several months later the exchange rate shifts. Currency fluctuation has a habit of distorting prices significantly and if anyone thinks any of the distributors and dealers are making a killing they are VERY wrong.
What concerns me is how many ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying of many goods, not only motorcycles, parts and accessories. I think everyone should have that on their conscience.

[lakedaemonian]

Stock also has to be ordered many months in advance by distributors in line with production schedules. You just cannot order it any old time. Often the buy price is ''unfavourable'' when several months later the exchange rate shifts. Currency fluctuation has a habit of distorting prices significantly and if anyone thinks any of the distributors and dealers are making a killing they are VERY wrong.
What concerns me is how many ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying of many goods, not only motorcycles, parts and accessories. I think everyone should have that on their conscience.

I'm with you and agree 100%.

But I'm also a realist, and see that the majority of folks often buy on price/convenience...so we've got to up our game on price and/or convenience.....as well as become true subject matter experts people are willing to pay to access that hub of information and by offering a level of customer service that simply blows people away and hopefully earns their loyalty.

It's nearly impossible to compete apples for apples with the likes of a Warehouse, WalMart, or Amazon.com.....so we do our best to try and sell an Orange.

But I would be lying if I said it was easy to compete in an environment where the currency is going up and down like a roller coaster.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm with you and agree 100%.

But I'm also a realist, and see that the majority of folks often buy on price/convenience...so we've got to up our game on price and/or convenience.....as well as become true subject matter experts people are willing to pay to access that hub of information and by offering a level of customer service that simply blows people away and hopefully earns their loyalty.

It's nearly impossible to compete apples for apples with the likes of a Warehouse, WalMart, or Amazon.com.....so we do our best to try and sell an Orange.

But I would be lying if I said it was easy to compete in an environment where the currency is going up and down like a roller coaster.

Yes I understand all of that, the justifications and the non justifications and that retailing as we know it is changing rapidly. Hence the maxim ''adapt or die''. My business is in the former category of that maxim.
I do think though that armed with all of the information on the net buyers should at least give their local a chance to sell.
If we take it to a cynical extreme NZ businesses amongst many other sectors of society are doing their best in difficult times to help with natural disasters such as the Christchurch earthquake. Are our American cousins who are so keen to clip our credit cards for online purchases just as eager to put money back into our local economy for such worthy causes?
Im certain the unemployment figures have a significant percentage of people that have been laid off because of worldwide competition. Thats a very sad by-product that we all pay for.

[Woodman]

Why not a trans tasman motorcycle big box chain??

One or two per city depending on size/demand.

Sell any brand that wants to jump on the bandwagon.

Because its trans tasman e.g. lots of outlets they could leverage off their buying power and purchase direct bypassing distributors. Not just bikes but parts and accessories as well.

Attach a workshop and trye fitting bay to each store.

Its the way of the future.

[short-circuit]

Stock also has to be ordered many months in advance by distributors in line with production schedules. You just cannot order it any old time. Often the buy price is ''unfavourable'' when several months later the exchange rate shifts. Currency fluctuation has a habit of distorting prices significantly and if anyone thinks any of the distributors and dealers are making a killing they are VERY wrong.
What concerns me is how many ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying of many goods, not only motorcycles, parts and accessories. I think everyone should have that on their conscience.

I think those that support(ed) neo-liberal lunancy and freemarket policies need to take a good hard look in the mirror

[lakedaemonian]

Why not a trans tasman motorcycle big box chain??

One or two per city depending on size/demand.

Sell any brand that wants to jump on the bandwagon.

Because its trans tasman e.g. lots of outlets they could leverage off their buying power and purchase direct bypassing distributors. Not just bikes but parts and accessories as well.

Attach a workshop and trye fitting bay to each store.

Its the way of the future.

I thought the same way when I entered the industry a decade+ ago.

And for a time it WAS heading in that direction.

A couple of the bigger dealerships in NZ were accumulating a good number of brands....we maxed out at 5 for a brief bit.....one in Auckland got to about 10.

But from my perspective it seemed like FAR too many moving parts to do things really, really well.....jack of all trades and master of none and all that.

It still seems to work in places like the US with mega multibrand car yards.

I've also been to visit Bert's in the US(outside LA)...pretty much every brand but Harley.....easily 100,0000+ sq ft. I walked out when the only staff member to even acknowledge my presence was the one who told me I wasn't allowed to sit on or take a photo of a Honda Fury in the middle of the showroom(without any such signage on it). Big box retail selling motorbikes just doesn't seem to work well.

So my personal opinion has changed to laser sharp specialization and seems to be working well(in our case for the last 5 years).

[SS90]

serious question, why dont people open up specific, to-order motorcycle importing businesses, where a customer can pay a nominal fee to a company which imports excess overseas stock, landing the customer a new bike at a price substantially discounted from the standard NZ floor price?

Would covering manufacturer warranties be an issue if the bike is sourced overseas, or would the manufacturer still have to honour factory warranties via a local brand specific agent, even if that agent wasnt responsible for the sale?

Small "grey market" importers have been trying to do that for decades, and, the crux of it is that Kiwis don't really like "paying before you see it", as would be required with such concepts. You will have seen for at least the last 10 years Grey import based business's offering "import to order", the bottom line is, the majority of punters who enquire into the service, expect that they are going to get a major discount on the bike because they are paying up front, and the reality is that this just cannot happen.... Margins are tight in both new dealer sales AND Grey market.... Simply because of the massive amount of competition in NZ, even with recent closures of business in NZ, the market is still, in general, over subscribed.

I am not saying we should allow a return of the 70s and 80's when the "old boys club" based LMVD licensing system created a "jerk circle" whereby the punters where regularly shafted on trade ins, and, due to expensive car prices (even imports), where stuck with bikes as a mode of transport, and as such, dealers where ,making a killing, with no chance of new blood being able to source, let alone SELL a bike for a business, but we have to realise ghat NZ is, due to it's population,
Eternally stuck with paying high prices for luxury items, such as motorcycles.

For bike shops to exist in NZ, they have to make a profit. To make a profit, they have to be open 6 days a week, therefore, their Return of investment for the director(s) needs to be AT LEAST as good as any other High investment (over $400,000) operation. To achieve that, there mustvbe a reasonable margin in the products and services they sell.

Contrary to poular belief, Bike Shops and the Red Cross are two different things.

[oneofsix]

...

Contrary to poular belief, Bike Shops and the Red Cross are two different things.

that could have been fun had you compared bike shops to St Johns :shutup:

[lakedaemonian]

I think those that support(ed) neo-liberal lunancy and freemarket policies need to take a good hard look in the mirror

From what I've seen, it would look like a big chunk of the blame(but far from all of it) goes to the LACK of enforcement of existing regulation.

There were/are PLENTY of whistleblowers sticking their hands up to point out the financial malfeasance throughout the west....but for a lot of reasons it went largely ignored or far under resourced to gain any traction before the first waves of the calamity hit.

At the same time, many average Joe Bloggs contributed to the problems by believing their homes were a "bank" from the over-cheap credit wave which allowed their home equity to be "unlocked" because property prices "always go up"(until they don't) and how debt was such a good thing. :)

I think we all own this problem...individually and collectively(but some clearly more so than others).....but I also think that there's about eleventeen zillion opinions on this rather heated and complex topic. :)

But from our narrow NZ motorcycle industry perspective...all the distortions created that continue to cascade in waves include this opportunity to buy stuff cheap from overseas. And those that buy from there do so with the knowledge that it can(and probably will) continue to hurt the NZ motorcycle retail industry as Robert Taylor stated earlier.

And that's not laying blame...people are gonna do what people are gonna do...cause/effect and what not....we just want to try and be in a position that reduces the chance of a size 12 "effect" boot to OUR ass.

[YellowDog]

I do not agree with the assumption that every grey imported bike or accessory is business lost for a home dealer.

Busness owners can choose to whinge and bitch about their perceived loss, or they can get on with accurately profiling their potential customers and make some money. Why chase business that you have no chance of getting?

The dinosaurs that are unable to adapt to the new global marketplace will soon be extinct.

[Big Dave]

Take Kiwirider magazine for example. That magazine is better than any mag you can find in Canada or the US.... only the British magazines are similar in quality.

Thanks very much! - your comment has been circulated around writers and staff.

[SS90]

I do not agree with the assumption that every grey imported bike or accessory is business lost for a home dealer.

Busness owners can choose to whinge and bitch about their perceived loss, or they can get on with accurately profiling their potential customers and make some money. Why chase business that you have no chance of getting?

The dinosaurs that are unable to adapt to the new global marketplace will soon be extinct.

Erm, think of it this way....

What percentage of NZ owns a road going motorcycle..... I don't even know, but I would guess at 1% (it's possibly less than that)

So at the most, we have a total market pool of 40,000 punters.

Now say, (for tis example), the same 1% rule applies..... In a country like, say, Australia (with a population of 22 million, that gives a market pool of 220,000... And all of whom earn an average of 30% more than your average Kiwi)

When you break it down like this, it really does seem bleak huh?

[Zamiam]

I get a little sick of those that bleat because people such as myself choose to shop offshore. Latest example should make it really clear why people like I do so: Part ex USA $US116 + $US32 postage = $US148 = $NZ185 or so. Will take 8-10 days to get here. US supplier replied overnight. $NZ price 350+ - 5 days later I'm still waiting for the NZ dealer to respond to my email / provide a price.

The reason I shop offshore is that it is generally around half the price AND I get service which the NZ dealers (and I have had the same experience from 2 different HD dealerships) don't seem to understand the meaning of.

[PeeJay]

Stock also has to be ordered many months in advance by distributors in line with production schedules. You just cannot order it any old time. Often the buy price is ''unfavourable'' when several months later the exchange rate shifts. Currency fluctuation has a habit of distorting prices significantly and if anyone thinks any of the distributors and dealers are making a killing they are VERY wrong.
What concerns me is how many ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying of many goods, not only motorcycles, parts and accessories. I think everyone should have that on their conscience.

All of these "problems" exist in other parts of the world as well. NZ is not unique in this regard.
Your bleat
"ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying"
is a bit rich coming from someone who imports parts for sale. Wheres your conscience?

There is very little in the way of a domestic motorcycle parts manufacturing industry in NZ, so when people import their own exhaust or ohlins or carburettor, the loss of jobs you are talking about are restricted to P&A Engineer/ Executive (storeman to you old people). And not many of them at that.
What you are suggesting (from previous posts) amounts to
the consumer should pay higher prices to create a job?

How about this to salve our collective conscience
The government should restrict the import of suspension components with enormous taxes, and use whats left (after administration costs) to foster a domestic suspension manufacturing business and keep "ordinary everyday people" in a job. Yes?
And this will be so successful they can apply the same model to everything else that gets imported.
Commie or what?

I really dont see your problem with self imported Ohlins
Surely the more Ohlins in the country the more potential work for you?
Why not welcome it?
Offer your setup services etc (paid)?
You would probably make more money setting the shock up than you made from selling the shock and doing a "free" setup.
Not having capital sitting on the shelf has to save you a few bob surely?

Instead your constant bleating about imports, the invective you heap on anyone who imports their own parts, has probably scared a fair amount of business away because anyone wanting an ohlins setup that they didnt purchase from you will take it elsewhere.
Who would want to turn up at your shop knowing that you think of them as a parasite for not buying from you in the first place?

This applies to others as well, not just you, I use you as an example because you stuck your head up!!

The whole importer/distributor/retailer model which made some sense 50 yrs ago, makes less sense nowadays because of the great advances in transport and communications.
Because we live on an island we have been held captive to this model for a bit longer than most but not any more.
Business' in NZ need to get with the program
Instead of bleating and whining, think about it, look outward instead of inward and take advantage of the opportunity.
ciao

[Robert Taylor]

All of these "problems" exist in other parts of the world as well. NZ is not unique in this regard.
Your bleat
"ordinary everyday people are losing their jobs because of so much offshore buying"
is a bit rich coming from someone who imports parts for sale. Wheres your conscience?

There is very little in the way of a domestic motorcycle parts manufacturing industry in NZ, so when people import their own exhaust or ohlins or carburettor, the loss of jobs you are talking about are restricted to P&A Engineer/ Executive (storeman to you old people). And not many of them at that.
What you are suggesting (from previous posts) amounts to
the consumer should pay higher prices to create a job?

How about this to salve our collective conscience
The government should restrict the import of suspension components with enormous taxes, and use whats left (after administration costs) to foster a domestic suspension manufacturing business and keep "ordinary everyday people" in a job. Yes?
And this will be so successful they can apply the same model to everything else that gets imported.
Commie or what?

I really dont see your problem with self imported Ohlins
Surely the more Ohlins in the country the more potential work for you?
Why not welcome it?
Offer your setup services etc (paid)?
You would probably make more money setting the shock up than you made from selling the shock and doing a "free" setup.
Not having capital sitting on the shelf has to save you a few bob surely?

Instead your constant bleating about imports, the invective you heap on anyone who imports their own parts, has probably scared a fair amount of business away because anyone wanting an ohlins setup that they didnt purchase from you will take it elsewhere.
Who would want to turn up at your shop knowing that you think of them as a parasite for not buying from you in the first place?

This applies to others as well, not just you, I use you as an example because you stuck your head up!!

The whole importer/distributor/retailer model which made some sense 50 yrs ago, makes less sense nowadays because of the great advances in transport and communications.
Because we live on an island we have been held captive to this model for a bit longer than most but not any more.
Business' in NZ need to get with the program
Instead of bleating and whining, think about it, look outward instead of inward and take advantage of the opportunity.
ciao

Bleating? No.

Pointing out the negative by products ( and there are many ) Yes, guilty.

With the programme. Yes

Employing people and providing subcontractors with work. Guilty

Obligingly helping people sort out their ''box sale'' suspension imports because the US reseller has no idea of our roading conditions. Guilty

Charging fairly even if we didnt sell. Guilty

Having full facilities, training and equipment to fully back up our product. Guilty

I think youd better pick another example, also my comments within this thread were not there to incite emotive invective. They were to illustrate negative by-products. Like many people Im concerned that we have high levels of unemployment and people struggling. That is conscience

[short-circuit]

Bleating? No.

BLAH BLAH BLAH Guilty

I think youd better pick another example, also my comments within this thread were not there to incite emotive invective. They were to illustrate negative by-products. Like many people Im concerned that my business is struggling. That is self interest

There y'are fixed it for ya

[thepom]

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor
Bleating? No.

BLAH BLAH BLAH Guilty

I think youd better pick another example, also my comments within this thread were not there to incite emotive invective. They were to illustrate negative by-products. Like many people Im concerned that my business is struggling. That is self interest
There y'are fixed it for ya


+1:killingme

[Robert Taylor]

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor
Bleating? No.

BLAH BLAH BLAH Guilty

I think youd better pick another example, also my comments within this thread were not there to incite emotive invective. They were to illustrate negative by-products. Like many people Im concerned that my business is struggling. That is self interest
There y'are fixed it for ya


+1:killingme

Struggling, no. One months work backed up, because we work bloody hard at it and adapt to the new realities. Concerned about those that are struggling yes, even though there are those who mock those that think beyond their own self interest

[YellowDog]

Struggling, no. One months work backed up, because we work bloody hard at it and adapt to the new realities. Concerned about those that are struggling yes, even though there are those who mock those that think beyond their own self interest

I not sure why CKT would be botherd by all this.

The guys who import the gear themselves have cost and lost you nothing at all.

They were not ever going to be your customers.

CKT offer a value added service and money well spent/invested.

I wouldn't go anywhere else and only a complete fool would risk their lives by scrimping on the required expertise.

It is not like buying a standard accessory, which is no more than commodity item.

[Brian d marge]

Just a reminder Commodities are market driven
percieved value isnt , neither on service or the above commodities

RT sells a premium service and product to a niche market, SparesRUs-usa.com is commodity driven and worlds apart

What I would be worrying about is a changing market, For example if the Chinese ( remember it was the Japanese ), if the Chinese brought out a product near to the equivalent price point and quality as Ohlins ( showa?) Roberts market dries up unless he can adapt

IMHO the motorcycle shop business model has changed ( dramatically?) I think its now an entertainment focused model and anyone with good customer focus that facilitates that ( customer able to enjoy his or her pride and Joy) will be ok

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

The whole importer/distributor/retailer model which made some sense 50 yrs ago, makes less sense nowadays because of the great advances in transport and communications.
Because we live on an island we have been held captive to this model for a bit longer than most but not any more.
Business' in NZ need to get with the program
Instead of bleating and whining, think about it, look outward instead of inward and take advantage of the opportunity.
ciao

agreed
Honestly doing business with NZ companies can be,,, um frustrating to say the least
( the good ones are worth their weight in gold)
Stephen

[short-circuit]

I

I wouldn't go anywhere else and only a complete fool would risk their lives by scrimping on the required expertise.

It is not like buying a standard accessory, which is no more than commodity item.

I'd go to Norm Cobb at suspensiontech any day of the week over CKT, also an Ohlins distributer, highly knowledgeable and (point of difference), not a whinging Tory bastard.

[Robert Taylor]

I'd go to Norm Cobb at suspensiontech any day of the week over CKT, also an Ohlins distributer, highly knowledgeable and (point of difference), not a whinging Tory bastard.

Norm does do a very good job, good choice. He purchases his Ohlins suspension and rebuild parts off the official NZ distributor CKT. We in turn purchase bits and pieces off him because you reciprocate business with those who support you.
Take note that its the case in business terms worldwide that a distributor is a company that purchases directly off the manufacturer and is authorised to be the distributor for a country. Only one company in NZ can purchase direct off Ohlins racing AB Sweden.
Ask Norm what his political preference is, Ill give you a clue, theyre not red, pink, yellow or green.
Take note also that my posts are not whinging, Im just merely expressing what are the flipsides of widespread internet purchases, without recourse to getting all emotive or firing cheap shots.
As someone else said in all fairness he is having trouble understanding the ''rights and wrongs'' of overseas internet purchases. It is a conundrum, especially for many small businesses. As someone else also rightly said there are many companies that offer a product where there is no local distributor. Its a complex issue with some negative repercussions behind the thrill of purchase.
Certainly also I can understand the information at your fingertips and convenience factors. In my case I have bought the odd book off Amazon but I always check first that I can get it off a NZ retailer even if it costs more and takes a little more time to procure. Id rather support the employment security of Kiwi workers than some faceless Yank or Pom. And I make no apology for that, nor should I.
Irrespective, many businesses need to adapt or die and way too many employees need to get off their chuffs and show some interest other than collecting the weekly pay check.
Am I being condemned for expressing that I can see both sides of the story?

[PeeJay]

Well you would just be utterly ORGASMIC over Harley Davidson.

Because of the bleating whinging and whining from NZ, Aus, UK dealers, from 1 Aug US HD dealers will be VERBOTEN to sell online to non US customers.
NO accepting foreign creditcards
NO accepting foreign paypal payments
NO shipping to the various freight/mail forwarding companies
Hoggley Doggley owners will HAVE to buy their chrome from the AUTHORISED Dealers in their country. In the US they are even trying to stop interstate purchases.
A HD inspection at the Bombays to catch these criminial parasite Jaffas bringing parts back from Hamilton
Also mooted was the banning of parts sales to business' that werent a Harley dealership. They are still working on that one.

Business is business is business and kiwis, aussies and yanks wont let a little thing like this stop them.
Entrepreneurial minds will already be hard at work
Stick it to the Man!!

PS includes ebay

[Robert Taylor]

Well you would just be utterly ORGASMIC over Harley Davidson.

Because of the bleating whinging and whining from NZ, Aus, UK dealers, from 1 Aug US HD dealers will be VERBOTEN to sell online to non US customers.
NO accepting foreign creditcards
NO accepting foreign paypal payments
NO shipping to the various freight/mail forwarding companies
Hoggley Doggley owners will HAVE to buy their chrome from the AUTHORISED Dealers in their country. In the US they are even trying to stop interstate purchases.
A HD inspection at the Bombays to catch these criminial parasite Jaffas bringing parts back from Hamilton
Also mooted was the banning of parts sales to business' that werent a Harley dealership. They are still working on that one.

Business is business is business and kiwis, aussies and yanks wont let a little thing like this stop them.
Entrepreneurial minds will already be hard at work
Stick it to the Man!!

PS includes ebay

Well that/ those actions would be academic if the US dollar was significantly stronger than it is. Currency changes everything, including who purchasers ''bleat'' about.

[SS90]

Well you would just be utterly ORGASMIC over Harley Davidson.

Because of the bleating whinging and whining from NZ, Aus, UK dealers, from 1 Aug US HD dealers will be VERBOTEN to sell online to non US customers.
NO accepting foreign creditcards
NO accepting foreign paypal payments
NO shipping to the various freight/mail forwarding companies
Hoggley Doggley owners will HAVE to buy their chrome from the AUTHORISED Dealers in their country. In the US they are even trying to stop interstate purchases.
A HD inspection at the Bombays to catch these criminial parasite Jaffas bringing parts back from Hamilton
Also mooted was the banning of parts sales to business' that werent a Harley dealership. They are still working on that one.

Business is business is business and kiwis, aussies and yanks wont let a little thing like this stop them.
Entrepreneurial minds will already be hard at work
Stick it to the Man!!

PS includes ebay

How interesting that you take issue with such practices...

For years I have been dismayed at the amount of times I have seen "Dealer support" mean sweet F.A.

Brands (particularly H.D) put out the idea that "Authorised" means some type of exlusivity, but all the while letting more "opportunistic" dealers make sales in others areas.

I, for one, Applaud H.D in this move.... I hope others follow suit.

[PeeJay]

How interesting that you take issue with such practices...

For years I have been dismayed at the amount of times I have seen "Dealer support" mean sweet F.A.

Brands (particularly H.D) put out the idea that "Authorised" means some type of exlusivity, but all the while letting more "opportunistic" dealers make sales in others areas.

I, for one, Applaud H.D in this move.... I hope others follow suit.

Be careful what you wish for, it may come true
In the US HD also wish to restrict interstate sales.
Apply that here, Amps wont be allowed to take a phone order from someone in Thames because that area "belongs" to Road and Sport
And you want others to follow suit?
You want to be told what shop you are permitted to purchase from?
Pathetic

[Zamiam]

This is plain wrong. The only person that will get screwed is the consumer. I'm looking to buy some bits for my HD - still waiting a response from AMPS (nearly a week has gone by). Two US dealers responded overnight. One custom bike company from down south responded in a couple of hours, nothing non HD to suit and genuine HD part $NZ370 + courier. Ex USA around $NZ200 delivered to my door.

While I sympathise with NZ companies it is a global market. If HD follows this path which they appear to be as the usual crowd I deal with in the USA will no longer ship internationally they'll loose in the long run as they will push people to no-HD parts which are readily available and usually much cheaper

[imdying]

Because of the bleating whinging and whining from NZ, Aus, UK dealers, from 1 Aug US HD dealers will be VERBOTEN to sell online to non US customers.Ahhh, just the angle into the market the Chinese need. You can bet they won't be stupid enough to put those sort of caveats over doing business on themselves. Basically, they're just not that stupid.

[SS90]

Apply that here, Amps wont be allowed to take a phone order from someone in Thames because that area "belongs" to Road and Sport


Considering the financial outlay it takes to be a H.D dealer, if I was one,I would welcome it, yes.

[SS90]

Ahhh, just the angle into the market the Chinese need. You can bet they won't be stupid enough to put those sort of caveats over doing business on themselves. Basically, they're just not that stupid.

On that note, and a wee aside, did anyone else notice that when the first quake hit Chch, while some governments donated millions, China donated $10,000...... makes you think twice about that umbrella eh?

[PeeJay]

Considering the financial outlay it takes to be a H.D dealer, if I was one,I would welcome it, yes.
If replacing customer service with coercion is your idea of how to run a retail business, not only would you welcome it, you would need it.

[Brian d marge]

I picked up a bike on the K rd , twas pretty reasonable

Stephen

[old git]

i'm a geek because i like the look of the new bmw g650gs

but why is it...........

uk price 4920 British pounds = 9 876.80196 New Zealand dollars

us price 7900 U.S. dollars = 9 687.3084 New Zealand dollars

jeff gray bmw christchurch price = 16228 New Zealand dollars

W.T.F Send me the dosh in the uk where i am at present , and i box it up and send it back as scrap..........which under 100 bucks doesnt get caught by impory tax, and shipping costs will be about 1200 NZ for the boxes and take 5 weeks ish.

Sorted.............Easy

Old git

[Robert Taylor]

Send me the dosh in the uk where i am at present , and i box it up and send it back as scrap..........which under 100 bucks doesnt get caught by impory tax, and shipping costs will be about 1200 NZ for the boxes and take 5 weeks ish.

Sorted.............Easy

Old git

Thats fraud, technically. Recognised distributors import goods to the letter of the law and pay the correct amount of duty and gst. Why should a private individual circumvent that?

[Ocean1]

Why should a private individual circumvent that?

The same reason a prisoner of war has a duty to attempt to escape.

Yer actual cash carrying end-user has a duty to attempt to thwart those who would clip the ticket without actually contributing anything to the purchase value.

OK, so not exactly the same reason, valid nonetheless.

[Robert Taylor]

The same reason a prisoner of war has a duty to attempt to escape.

Yer actual cash carrying end-user has a duty to attempt to thwart those who would clip the ticket without actually contributing anything to the purchase value.

OK, so not exactly the same reason, valid nonetheless.

No thats totally flawed reasoning. To put it another way if the business is paying gst why shouldnt a private individual? Increasingly it is like the cards are firmly stacked against businesses.

[Ocean1]

No thats totally flawed reasoning. To put it another way if the business is paying gst why shouldnt a private individual? Increasingly it is like the cards are firmly stacked against businesses.

But business don't pay GST on stock. And private individuals do.

And by your reasoning both should be encumbered with the same range of tax liabilities. When you know full well that the rationale driving who pays what is twofold. Can they pay, and can we make them? Which, by the way, explains your last point.

[Robert Taylor]

But business don't pay GST on stock. And private individuals do.

And by your reasoning both should be encumbered with the same range of tax liabilities. When you know full well that the rationale driving who pays what is twofold. Can they pay, and can we make them? Which, by the way, explains your last point.

Let me rephrase it, your reasoning is brazenly selfish. Distributors pay clearance charges and gst on all charges. We accept that. We also accept that those tax revenues go into the Government coffers to pay for the services we ALL take for granted, and god knows the Government needs as much revenue as it can get at present. Why shouldnt someone who privately imports also pay clearance and gst?. BTW Customs have tightened up on this considerably in the last year or so.

[Ocean1]

Let me rephrase it, your reasoning is brazenly selfish. Distributors pay clearance charges and gst on all charges. We accept that. We also accept that those tax revenues go into the Government coffers to pay for the services we ALL take for granted, and god knows the Government needs as much revenue as it can get at present. Why shouldnt someone who privately imports also pay clearance and gst?. BTW Customs have tightened up on this considerably in the last year or so.

Self serving, rather. A result of having been brazenly extorted by succesive governments that see me as a cash cow, while providing minimal help to maintain the revenue stream they siphon from.

So while I'd have once agreed with you I'd now ask why on earth a private individual who's paid rather a large quantity of tax over the years shouldn't take advantage of the somewhat novel opportunity of avoiding doing so if the chance arrises.

If the government or the relivant distributor actually provided value for their associated costs they wouldn't have to resort to heavy handed preventitive measures.

[SS90]

Distributors pay clearance charges and gst on all charges. .

This is somwthing that your average punter does not get.... Importers pay GST on goods, and, this is non refundable.... in effect a duty, just by another name.

One of the main reasons privately imported parts come in cheaper.

[PeeJay]

No thats totally flawed reasoning. To put it another way if the business is paying gst why shouldnt a private individual? Increasingly it is like the cards are firmly stacked against businesses.

Gee Robert I thought you would be a bit more on to it.

Dont you know that any gst a business pays can be claimed back from IRD?

If you havent been claiming your gst back it might pay to get in touch with IRD.
They probably have 1000's sitting there waiting for you

[PeeJay]

This is somwthing that your average punter does not get.... Importers pay GST on goods, and, this is non refundable.... in effect a duty, just by another name.

One of the main reasons privately imported parts come in cheaper.
I guess you dont import goods for a business. Or if you do you wont be very good at your job.

The gst is refundable, you just have to claim it on your gst return

[Quasievil]

I guess you dont import goods for a business. Or if you do you wont be very good at your job.

The gst is refundable, you just have to claim it on your gst return

Really, so ALL the GST I pay in business I get back LOL ..............yeah right.

fuck this place is full of muppets

[PeeJay]

Let me rephrase it, your reasoning is brazenly selfish. Distributors pay clearance charges and gst on all charges. We accept that. We also accept that those tax revenues go into the Government coffers to pay for the services we ALL take for granted, and god knows the Government needs as much revenue as it can get at present. Why shouldnt someone who privately imports also pay clearance and gst?. BTW Customs have tightened up on this considerably in the last year or so.

Gee Robert you arent up with the rules and regulations around importing as well.
The exact same rules regarding gst, clearance charges, thresholds for gst etc
apply to both business and private individuals

Or maybe you do know this but are not above spreading a little misinformation to bolster your argument?
No you wouldnt do that would you?

[PeeJay]

Really, so ALL the GST I pay in business I get back LOL ..............yeah right.

fuck this place is full of muppets

Why not tell us what gst your business doesnt get back?
so the muppets can be better informed

[Quasievil]

Why not tell us what gst your business doesnt get back?
so the muppets can be better informedwhen did you last do a gst return?

[PeeJay]

when did you last do a gst return?
I dont personally do the gst returns anymore. But our last one was done 1st week of June.
Still interested to know which business gst charges you cant/dont claim

[Quasievil]

I dont personally do the gst returns anymore. But our last one was done 1st week of June.
Still interested to know which business gst charges you cant/dont claim

My Interpretation of your previous comment "GST is refundable all you have to do is claim" was you get it all back, this isnt the case, you may get a refund you may have to pay GST, it depends of course on GST spent and GST received and the difference

so we have no argument I suspect

[clint640]

Bickering about GST is amusing, same as with 'ol Harvey in Oz recently. People aren't buying stuff from overseas to save 15% GST, it's more like 30%+ on any stuff I've bothered to bring in. Dodging the GST now & then is just a nice bonus.

Cheers
Clint

[imdying]

Bickering about GST is amusing, same as with 'ol Harvey in Oz recently. People aren't buying stuff from overseas to save 15% GST, it's more like 30%+ on any stuff I've bothered to bring in. Dodging the GST now & then is just a nice bonus. Basically.... yeah. It does show us that the industry chooses not understand the real problem.

[Quasievil]

Basically.... yeah. It does show us that the industry chooses not understand the real problem.

Whats that?
The only problem in the industry is computers, and the world online buying environment which makes it very diffulcult for NZ retailers to compete in.

We have a small market, we have low product turn over, we have high import costs and with that we are expected to compete with countries who have the opposite ? and of course when we cant compete many bitch and moan about the prices in NZ to justify their off shore purchases which worsen the situation for the NZ retailer.

Its a diffulcult situation and as a "retailer" one that wont go away, so its a case of refining, developing your market offer and frankly getting over it as this situation is permanent ..............either that or go under.

From my perspective and my business Im refining it and changing the product offer that we market, Im lucky that we got rid of the warehouse a few years back and stripped out costs so we can run on the smell of an oily rag otherwise we would have gone ages ago.

[imdying]

Whats that?That people don't buy overseas to dodge a little GST, they do it do pay a lot less for the item itself.

I've looked at the Handroids on your site, and I'd wager you sell a few of them? Partially because they're awesome, and partially because you haven't priced yourself out of the market. In other words, I'd rather buy them from you as the local distributor (so I can get the right size without fuss... that's you, adding value) and given you're not a million miles away from the price I can get them from overseas, why wouldn't I!

[Quasievil]

That people don't buy overseas to dodge a little GST, they do it do pay a lot less for the item itself.

Yes thats a fact and who can blame them for it, its sad tho as it does hurt the industry, but thats the way of the jungle, nothing will change it.


I've looked at the Handroids on your site, and I'd wager you sell a few of them? Partially because they're awesome, and partially because you haven't priced yourself out of the market. In other words, I'd rather buy them from you as the local distributor (so I can get the right size without fuss... that's you, adding value) and given you're not a million miles away from the price I can get them from overseas, why wouldn't I!

We priced them to compete with the international Market price...... ish there isnt a gain buying KNOX offshore (not much anyway)
so what size do you want ?:yes:

[Robert Taylor]

My Interpretation of your previous comment "GST is refundable all you have to do is claim" was you get it all back, this isnt the case, you may get a refund you may have to pay GST, it depends of course on GST spent and GST received and the difference

so we have no argument I suspect

Plus of course the cost of claiming some of it back.

[Robert Taylor]

Gee Robert you arent up with the rules and regulations around importing as well.
The exact same rules regarding gst, clearance charges, thresholds for gst etc
apply to both business and private individuals

Or maybe you do know this but are not above spreading a little misinformation to bolster your argument?
No you wouldnt do that would you?

The reality in practice is often quite different. If you are a bonafide businees your overseas purchasing transactions will almost always go through a customs broker so you will pay clearance charges, port fees and gst on all transactions including the fob value of the goods. You dont try and avoid it.
As for the assertion that I might be trying to spread misinformation I think you need to go back to the startline and rethink. Ive only been guilty of having the temerity to look at the flipside of internet buying. If at one day in the future YOUR employment and the nice comfortable world you live in is threatened by the ramifications of the internet DONT come bleating to me.
Please understand that Im not bleating as such, Im pointing out inequities that are occuring. My business works around that, we have adapted

[Robert Taylor]

Bickering about GST is amusing, same as with 'ol Harvey in Oz recently. People aren't buying stuff from overseas to save 15% GST, it's more like 30%+ on any stuff I've bothered to bring in. Dodging the GST now & then is just a nice bonus.

Cheers
Clint

Note that not all NZ businesses have prices that are hugely different to those currently distorted by currency rates. I think it would be wrong to tar all NZ businesses with the same brush.

[SS90]

I guess you dont import goods for a business. Or if you do you wont be very good at your job.

The gst is refundable, you just have to claim it on your gst return

To put this into context... The thread started as a question as to why bike prices are higher in NZ.
Vehicles Imported into NZ are not subject to a duty, they are however, subject G.S.T, which, in the case of imported vehicles, is not recoverable.... In effect, a duty, but by another name.

[PeeJay]

To put this into context... The thread started as a question as to why bike prices are higher in NZ.
Vehicles Imported into NZ are not subject to a duty, they are however, subject G.S.T, which, in the case of imported vehicles, is not recoverable.... In effect, a duty, but by another name.

Your original post regarding business and gst


This is somwthing that your average punter does not get.... Importers pay GST on goods, and, this is non refundable.... in effect a duty, just by another name.

One of the main reasons privately imported parts come in cheaper.


You dont really know how gst works do you

From NZ customs website

Should I have you clear the vehicle in my own
name or under a company name?
If you use a GST registered company name, you
may be able to claim back any GST paid from Inland Revenue.

Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund.
If its for personal use and you are just trying it on, and IRD thinks this, you wont be getting the gst back

[PeeJay]

The reality in practice is often quite different. If you are a bonafide businees your overseas purchasing transactions will almost always go through a customs broker so you will pay clearance charges, port fees and gst on all transactions including the fob value of the goods. You dont try and avoid it.
As for the assertion that I might be trying to spread misinformation I think you need to go back to the startline and rethink. Ive only been guilty of having the temerity to look at the flipside of internet buying. If at one day in the future YOUR employment and the nice comfortable world you live in is threatened by the ramifications of the internet DONT come bleating to me.
Please understand that Im not bleating as such, Im pointing out inequities that are occuring. My business works around that, we have adapted

Your whole argument seems to be based around the false assertion that private imports have some sort of advantage over business imports.
In fact the opposite is true.
All import charges your business incurs are tax deductible, no such luck for a private importer
All gst your business pays is refunded, no such luck for a private importer

Are these examples of the inequities that are occuring?

Misinformation? because you dont tell the whole story
eg business' have to pay gst is one of your favourites
True, but after paying it IRD will give it back. Slip your mind?
"Plus of course the cost of claiming some of it back"
Care to share with the great unwashed the "costs" involved with claiming?
Electricity to run your computer? or another half truth?

Your emotive plug for everyday kiwis and their jobs, more BS with no facts to back anything back.

If your "reality in practice is often quite different" perhaps you should get hold of your broker and customs and make sure your imports are being correctly assessed. The regulations are all straightforward, exactly the same for you and your business as they are for me and my business.
Our "reality" isnt different
We have no problem claiming back gst we have been charged.

Instead of getting to the nub of the problem, its easier to blame
the "internet"
the government
parasite NZ'ers who dare to shop around
cost of doing business in NZ
people on the dole
gst
overseas business' selling to anyone
believing that being an "authorised" importer/dealer, confers some sort of right to control the market in "your" area.

In typical kiwi fashion, its always someone elses fault.
Do you and lots of other retailers want to know why 1000's of NZers' shop online?
Look in the mirror

[Quasievil]

PeeJay you are coming across a tad agro to RT dude, what are you implying here ?

private people dont pay GST for goods under $400 a business would have rocks in their head to import such small volumes and therefore pay a higher freight rate per unit. that might be the argument?

[Blackflagged]

Far more likely to get stop at customs if addressed to a business name.And if stopped on ems, business pay an extra customs clearance charge around $100 that private people don`t.

But there`s many threads on here with the same thing whinging.Wasting your breath.
Tax Tax Tax is hidden every were.

[imdying]

Far more likely to get stop at customs if addressed to a business.I used to believe that also, but I get everything sent to work now because it never attracts customs charges. Weird I know, but good to know in any case.

[Blackflagged]

Ok, my experience has been opposite.

[Blackflagged]

Bickering about GST is amusing, same as with 'ol Harvey in Oz recently. People aren't buying stuff from overseas to save 15% GST, it's more like 30%+ on any stuff I've bothered to bring in. Dodging the GST now & then is just a nice bonus.

Cheers
Clint

Seems the Warehouse nz here has joined in with same complaint. What would they know, there just saying that ;-)

[imdying]

Ok, my experience has been opposite.That's completely what I expected also. I'm not in a related trade, and I always have them marked as "Attention xxxxx". I also expected that to change when their new computer system came in, and still expect it to at some stage.

[Robert Taylor]

PeeJay you are coming across a tad agro to RT dude, what are you implying here ?

private people dont pay GST for goods under $400 a business would have rocks in their head to import such small volumes and therefore pay a higher freight rate per unit. that might be the argument?

Yeah I cant believe the agro attitude either. It just seems that there are some people that really get off on arguing.
Like Ive also said Ive adapted to the realities. In particular currency is distorting everything. And Im more than abundantly aware of the money go round and the cost of doing business.
Grizzling? No. Just stating the flipside.
''Authorised distributors'' like my business spend more than a little time sorting out the box sales of parallell importers / fly by night operators. Or everyday customers who were led to believe that ''its straight bolt in and is optimised for you''. A tui moment there!
Maybe its because we have all the equipment, training and experience. No apologies for having an old world attitude about after sales service.

[ukusa]

I found this interesting reading, taken from an Australian bike guide mag, part of the editorial.

Better believe it: retail is changing, and it will be beyond recognition before the rate of change even slows down. No matter how low the cuttoff for GST on private imports, they won't be stopped. Retailers all over the world will need to adapt, or they will find their margins evaporating and their businesses becoming less viable.
Of course, it's hard to believe the way of selling goods that's served humanity since well before the time of jesus is coming to an end. But incredulity, like ignorance of the law, is not a defence. For retailers it's change, or be changed by forces beyond your control.
The belief common among riders that things can just go on the way they are, only with cheaper goods for all from the net, is simply naive. Buy your spares, accessories, clothes - and even bikes, now - over the net and you will find that eventually there will simply be no bike shops as we know them left in this country, because nobody can make a living from a bit of servicing and repair. Especially when the customer has bought the parts from overseas and just wants you to fit them! Sounds unlikely? I've heard of it happening already. Incredible but true.

[SS90]

You dont really know how gst works do you

From NZ customs website

Should I have you clear the vehicle in my own
name or under a company name?
If you use a GST registered company name, you
may be able to claim back any GST paid from Inland Revenue.

Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund.
If its for personal use and you are just trying it on, and IRD thinks this, you wont be getting the gst back

PeeJay,

I think you are commenting outside your pay grade here.
The discussion started on difference between bike prices overseas and prices in NZ.

I assure you, if a company imports a motor vehicles (or vehicles) into NZ, they are subject to GST, this GST is not refundable.... if the company imports a motor vehicle for THE PURPOSE OF USING IT AS A COMPANY VEHICLE, then the GST exponent can be refunded.

Like I said, the is no tarrif on imported vehicles into NZ, but there is GST, and that GST is not refundable (in the case of vehicles that have been imported for on selling)

This is one reason why businesses importing bikes into NZ have costs others (private people who simply misrepresent the situation for example) simply don't.

This is the difference between a company operating as an importer, where they import bikes (for example) with the express purpose of selling them (either wholesale, or retail).

If you import ONE bike, ( for your company use), then you can indeed claim the GST back.... if you import 25 to on sell, then you cannot.

It's that simple.

Its a Tarrif, by another name.

There is no Tarrifs on imported vehicles to NZ, but there is GST, and if the vehicle has been imported to on sell, then the GST is not refundable.

[PeeJay]

PeeJay,

I think you are commenting outside your pay grade here.
The discussion started on difference between bike prices overseas and prices in NZ.

I assure you, if a company imports a motor vehicles (or vehicles) into NZ, they are subject to GST, this GST is not refundable.... if the company imports a motor vehicle for THE PURPOSE OF USING IT AS A COMPANY VEHICLE, then the GST exponent can be refunded.

Like I said, the is no tarrif on imported vehicles into NZ, but there is GST, and that GST is not refundable (in the case of vehicles that have been imported for on selling)

This is one reason why businesses importing bikes into NZ have costs others (private people who simply misrepresent the situation for example) simply don't.

This is the difference between a company operating as an importer, where they import bikes (for example) with the express purpose of selling them (either wholesale, or retail).

If you import ONE bike, ( for your company use), then you can indeed claim the GST back.... if you import 25 to on sell, then you cannot.

It's that simple.

Its a Tarrif, by another name.

There is no Tarrifs on imported vehicles to NZ, but there is GST, and if the vehicle has been imported to on sell, then the GST is not refundable.

Hmm I'm so far down the ladder I dont have a pay grade
When you did your course on obfuscation you should have taken remedial reading as well.
You obviously didnt understand this
"Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund"
I suppose I should have qualified it with "your business has to be gst registered"

Where did you get your information regarding vehicle imports and gst?
Obviously not from IRD, sounds like it came from a salesman in a shop trying to justify higher prices by blaming the govt.
Almost every line is factually inaccurate
Have a good read of gst guide IR375, available on the ird website. Send IRD an email and ask them.

[PeeJay]

Yeah I cant believe the agro attitude either. It just seems that there are some people that really get off on arguing.
Like Ive also said Ive adapted to the realities. In particular currency is distorting everything. And Im more than abundantly aware of the money go round and the cost of doing business.
Grizzling? No. Just stating the flipside.
''Authorised distributors'' like my business spend more than a little time sorting out the box sales of parallell importers / fly by night operators. Or everyday customers who were led to believe that ''its straight bolt in and is optimised for you''. A tui moment there!
Maybe its because we have all the equipment, training and experience. No apologies for having an old world attitude about after sales service.

Well considering you haven't refuted any of my points regarding the business expenses you use as examples of the advantages private importers have, and when it is shown that that your so called business disadvantages are actually advantages you are silent on the subject.
I can only assume you have been deliberately using these half-truths and misinformation to bolster your point of view.
Because I am sure you would claim all the gst you are entitled to, and you would enter all the customs charges etc as non taxable expenses.

If I am wrong I would apologise profusely, and suggest you get a new accountant.

[Robert Taylor]

Well considering you haven't refuted any of my points regarding the business expenses you use as examples of the advantages private importers have, and when it is shown that that your so called business disadvantages are actually advantages you are silent on the subject.
I can only assume you have been deliberately using these half-truths and misinformation to bolster your point of view.
Because I am sure you would claim all the gst you are entitled to, and you would enter all the customs charges etc as non taxable expenses.

If I am wrong I would apologise profusely, and suggest you get a new accountant.

I think that its got a lot more to do with having time to be predisposed to having an argumentative disposition. The costs and money go round that occurs with tax are very complex, as any businessman or accountant would tell you. Im not going to waste 2000 or more words when sorry I can make better use of my time than trying to convince the unconvincable. If youve got all of the answers why dont you start a retail motorcycle shop? There are plenty for sale at present.............

[SS90]

Hmm I'm so far down the ladder I dont have a pay grade
When you did your course on obfuscation you should have taken remedial reading as well.
You obviously didnt understand this
"Provided the purchase is business related you will be entitled to a gst refund"
I suppose I should have qualified it with "your business has to be gst registered"

Where did you get your information regarding vehicle imports and gst?
Obviously not from IRD, sounds like it came from a salesman in a shop trying to justify higher prices by blaming the govt.
Almost every line is factually inaccurate
Have a good read of gst guide IR375, available on the ird website. Send IRD an email and ask them.

Tell ya what Sonny..... why don't you start importing a few bikes, and see what happens..... I have been doing it a while now.

[PeeJay]

Tell ya what Sonny..... why don't you start importing a few bikes, and see what happens..... I have been doing it a while now.

Tell ya what Sonny, you need to start paying for good advice
If your claim is being denied there will be a reason.
Ask for it.

A little side business I am involved in, we import vans and light trucks.
We have no problems claiming the gst.

Without stating the obvious you are gst registered arent you?

[PeeJay]

I think that its got a lot more to do with having time to be predisposed to having an argumentative disposition. The costs and money go round that occurs with tax are very complex, as any businessman or accountant would tell you. Im not going to waste 2000 or more words when sorry I can make better use of my time than trying to convince the unconvincable. If youve got all of the answers why dont you start a retail motorcycle shop? There are plenty for sale at present.............

All I have done is point out some anomalies in your argument
Rather than address those points you try to ignore them and hope no-one notices.

As an aside, our business imports and exports. We deal with gst, customs, IRD, on a regular basis.
The NZ tax system is one of the least complex systems I have worked in, and that includes Australia UK and the USA

You might call me aggro but what irks me is your deliberate attempt to mislead regarding business expenses relating to gst and importing charges.

Business is tough in NZ, especially if you are in a domestic service industry.
By and large motorcycles are toys and when money gets tight people have to prioritise their spending. They also look more closely at the $$ they are spending. If a $$ saving can be be made by shopping in another town, city, or country, then thats what will happen.

I certainly dont have all the answers and even if I did I would be unlikely to put money into a motorcycle retail shop.

Have a good day

[Quasievil]

I certainly dont have all the answers

Interesting comment given your apparent expertise dude





if I did I would be unlikely to put money into a motorcycle retail shop.


Is that because you would be under the scrutiny of KB plonkers with opinions and arseholes

[SS90]

A little side business I am involved in, we import vans and light trucks.
We have no problems claiming the gst.

Without stating the obvious you are gst registered arent you?

GST, not currently, I am cuurently MWst registered though, so I have experience in NZ, and Europe...... iun Europe you can claim back the VAT, but not the duty.....

I would be suspect of your business..... because I have been doing this the better part of 15 years.

Actually, going by your accounting, I must be owed serious money from I.R, I will be sure tyo tell them that according to someone on Kiwibiker, they have to refund me all my GST payments on imported motor vehicles that I have sold....... I'll teach those theiving bastards..... Grrrrr!

[johan]

How does this import GST stuff work?

Say I have a business, GST registered.
I import a bike and I pay $500 GST on the import.
I sell the bike, add my margin, the customer pay me $600 in GST.

That's all this business do for this GST period.

In the end I owe IRD $100?
Or is the import GST a special case that can't be balanced against what I'm selling for, so I owe them $600?

Please educate me.

[PeeJay]

How does this import GST stuff work?

Say I have a business, GST registered.
I import a bike and I pay $500 GST on the import.
I sell the bike, add my margin, the customer pay me $600 in GST.

That's all this business do for this GST period.

In the end I owe IRD $100?
Or is the import GST a special case that can't be balanced against what I'm selling for, so I owe them $600?


Please educate me.

$100 .

[PeeJay]

GST, not currently, I am cuurently MWst registered though, so I have experience in NZ, and Europe...... iun Europe you can claim back the VAT, but not the duty.....

I would be suspect of your business..... because I have been doing this the better part of 15 years.

Actually, going by your accounting, I must be owed serious money from I.R, I will be sure tyo tell them that according to someone on Kiwibiker, they have to refund me all my GST payments on imported motor vehicles that I have sold....... I'll teach those theiving bastards..... Grrrrr!

And they will want 15 yrs of gst you havent been collecting for them. + penalties

[Quasievil]

And they will want 15 yrs of gst you havent been collecting for them. + penalties

You think they go back that far?

[SS90]

And they will want 15 yrs of gst you havent been collecting for them. + penalties

Ah, the internet... what would we do with out it?

[PeeJay]

You think they go back that far?

If SS90 wanted to claim 15yrs worth of gst payments I would imagine IRD would reciprocate.

[Quasievil]

If SS90 wanted to claim 15yrs worth of gst payments I would imagine IRD would reciprocate.

I dont think so dude

[SS90]

If SS90 wanted to claim 15yrs worth of gst payments I would imagine IRD would reciprocate.

Whike it seems a little like someone is trying ti get the last word in, can you please show me Peejay, where my assertations regarding vehicles imported for sale are eligible for GST refunds are wrong..... So far you have failed to do so.

[Morcs]

Of course when you buy a bike from overseas, undercutting the NZ dealers, youll still expect to be able to rock into a dealership for warranty claims and such. i think personally imported bikes shouldnt have factory warranties.

[ukusa]

Of course when you buy a bike from overseas, undercutting the NZ dealers, youll still expect to be able to rock into a dealership for warranty claims and such. i think personally imported bikes shouldnt have factory warranties.

While I agree a fault on a new imported bike is not the local dealers problem, I do believe it should still be covered globally by the parent company. After all, it's still their product. The dealer gets paid to fix it by the parent company on any warranty job don't they? What does it matter where it came from?
I bought a Tissot watch in Germany a couple of years ago, it has a global warranty & it is covered in no matter what country I live in. All I do is take it into the local agent.

[avgas]

I bought a Tissot watch in Germany a couple of years ago, it has a global warranty & it is covered in no matter what country I live in. All I do is take it into the local agent.
On a side note......
You can't buy anything but official Tissot product. They don't manufacture in China, Spain.... and are in a price bracket that is too low to make it worth while copying.
Fun exercise in China is to ask the "Watch Smugglers" if they have a Tissot. They will search desperately for one.

You can however buy as many TAG and Rolex's as you want. And the quality is actually fantastic if you pay a bit more than "normal" for them.

With knowledge we learn!

[johan]

How to spot a fake Tissot PRC-200:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f62/how-spot-fake-tissot-prc-200-a-339622.html

[PeeJay]

Whike it seems a little like someone is trying ti get the last word in, can you please show me Peejay, where my assertations regarding vehicles imported for sale are eligible for GST refunds are wrong..... So far you have failed to do so.

A few posts ago I suggested you have a good read of IR375 and to also contact IRD.
In your case you cant claim gst refunds because you aren't gst registered.
On the the other hand the bikes you have been selling will be gst free so your customers should be getting a real good deal.

[PeeJay]

Of course when you buy a bike from overseas, undercutting the NZ dealers, youll still expect to be able to rock into a dealership for warranty claims and such. i think personally imported bikes shouldnt have factory warranties.

So if you lived in Auckland but bought your bike from a Christchurch dealer because he gave you a better deal, would you still expect the Auckland dealer to handle warranty work?

[nzspokes]

So if you lived in Auckland but bought your bike from a Christchurch dealer because he gave you a better deal, would you still expect the Auckland dealer to handle warranty work?

Yes. That is part of being a dealership and having an exclusive product in your area.

But I would ask the Auck dealer to match the price first.

[SS90]

A few posts ago I suggested you have a good read of IR375 and to also contact IRD.
In your case you cant claim gst refunds because you aren't gst registered.
On the the other hand the bikes you have been selling will be gst free so your customers should be getting a real good deal.

You don't a flippin clue mate, when I was in New Zealand, I was indeed GST registered. I currently live and work in central Europe, importing classic bikes from Japan... I have more knowledge about this industry in my little finger that you have in your whole body.

Flippin Internet, now any tit with a keyboard is a bloody expert!:facepalm:

Directing me to an irrelevant IRD link does not change the fact that in NZ, GST is not refundable on vehicles imported for sale (if you bring in a container of bikes, then you are unable to "claim back" the GST.....

However, if you have a Japanese based company, and you export an IMPORTED bike (for example, a Ducati), then since this bike was subject to an IMPORT TARRIF, the you may actually claim a percentage of that Tarrif back form the Japanese government....

These are all things the internet does not teach you PeeJay.......

But, since YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THE REST OF US, Go on, import a container load of bikes, and the claim the GST back, then, post a scan of your GST return, and show me how wrong I am.:innocent:

[Robert Taylor]

Yes. That is part of being a dealership and having an exclusive product in your area.

But I would ask the Auck dealer to match the price first.

Ok, let me explain how almost all manufacturers warranties work. The dealer makes a LOSS doing warranty work. The bigger the job and the more labour intensive it is the BIGGER the LOSS.
There are two predominant reasons for this;

1) Manufacturers flat rate times are notoriously stingy. For example its not uncommon to have a maximum of 6 hours allowable to do a frame change, when all too often it can be a minimum of 12 hours and sometimes up to 16. Farmbikes can be the worst with lots or rusty and seized bolts / fasteners because of the environment they work in. Many farmers are notorious for not cleaning their bikes or not cleaning them properly so they can be easily worked on. Its not uncommon to spend an hour or even longer pre-cleaning them and then its ''Im not paying for that as I bought the bike in to be fixed under warranty''

2) Further compounding 1) above the hourly rate that is reimbursed is usually subsistence rate only, there is no profit in that hourly rate

But also diagnostic time is not paid for and some bikes can have nasty intermittent problems that defy quick and accurate diagnosis.

Its a road to nowhere arguing with the manufacturers about abysmal flat rate times and rates, its been this way for decades. Were the reimbursement rates far more liberal ( across the board ) it would inevitably reflect in higher bike prices.

So if you rock up to your ''local'' dealer who didnt sell the bike to you and therefore made no profit on it then he has no buffer to offset the huge loss he will make for a warranty claim that is intensive in parts and labour. Given that percentage margins on bike sales are very poor its then quite understandable why your local will direct you back to the dealer many hundreds of kiolometres south who sold you the bike.

In view that people are now highly mobile to get the best possible price I would then question the validity of the word exclusive? But at least its honourable to give the local dealer a chance to price. If he cannot match the price of a dealer out of the area then its not because he is a ''stealership'' ( an emotive term often deridingly used ) Its likely because he is more in control of knowing what the bottom line is and just how tenuously perched it is above non viable. There are in fact a lot of sales being made that defy business logic and that is one reason many dealers fail.

[PeeJay]

You don't a flippin clue mate, when I was in New Zealand, I was indeed GST registered. I currently live and work in central Europe, importing classic bikes from Japan... I have more knowledge about this industry in my little finger that you have in your whole body.

Flippin Internet, now any tit with a keyboard is a bloody expert!:facepalm:

Directing me to an irrelevant IRD link does not change the fact that in NZ, GST is not refundable on vehicles imported for sale (if you bring in a container of bikes, then you are unable to "claim back" the GST.....

However, if you have a Japanese based company, and you export an IMPORTED bike (for example, a Ducati), then since this bike was subject to an IMPORT TARRIF, the you may actually claim a percentage of that Tarrif back form the Japanese government....

These are all things the internet does not teach you PeeJay.......

But, since YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THE REST OF US, Go on, import a container load of bikes, and the claim the GST back, then, post a scan of your GST return, and show me how wrong I am.:innocent:

Well they dont call me Clueless Paul for nothing.
Being GST registered just makes it worse doesnt it. It has actually cost you money.
If you think IRD is irrelevant in matters GST you are a plonker of the highest order.
All you had to do is ask them, but no, you know better.
Considering your tirade against "the internet" thats where you probably got your gst information from instead of the IRD
Some internet expert said you couldnt claim the gst because its actually a tarrif, and you believed him
Over the last week or so I have asked 4 business acquaintances, not as expert as you mind, one brings in Harleys from the USA, another pickup trucks and Harleys from the USA, another Harleys from Japan, another Japanese and European sports type bikes from Japan.
To the simple question "do you claim the gst customs charges you on your imports?

YES YES YES YES YES YEAS YES YES YES YES YES

In case you missed it first time around?
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

I even asked IRD and guess what the guy there said

YES YES YES YES YES YEAS YES YES YES YES YES

you have done all that dough because you were too up yourself to ask IRD
If you couldnt sort GST out, one of the simplest and straightforward systems in the world, God only knows what a shambles you are making of the all the VAT, sales taxes, tarriffs etc in Europe.

And just to make it better for you
gst you pay isnt a tax deductible expense
This means that the actual cost to you is 30-50% higher than what you didnt claim.
So instead of just missing out on say $20,000 you kindly left with the IRD
it actually cost you up to $30000
$30000 in the hole because you think the IRD is irrelevant.

Maybe you should talk to your little finger a bit more
it probably knows more than the rest of your body put together
You keep telling yourself
"Importers pay GST on goods, and, this is non refundable.... in effect a duty"
"Vehicles Imported into NZ are not subject to a duty, they are however, subject G.S.T, which, in the case of imported vehicles, is not recoverable.... In effect, a duty"

If you say it to yourself often enough it will become the "truth" and you wont feel like such a fool.

I may be clueless but at least I know I am and I know enough to ask questions of the right people.
When we first decided to import a few vans , Customs, IRD, LTSA, were all on the list to talk to.
Made sense to me but then I'm not a 15 yr expert like you
You obviously dont need to do anything like that
Way below your pay grade

And I suppose you paid GST on your sales as well
Dagnabit Wilbur, enough to drive a man to drink

PS rather than me import a container load of bikes just to prove you are an idiot, why dont you ring IRD and prove it yourself?

BTW the IR375 you dismiss as irrelevant? IRD give you a copy when you become gst registerd.
Maybe if you read it back then you wouldnt be in the pickle you are in now

[Robert Taylor]

I think a little civility wouldnt go amiss.

[PeeJay]

I think a little civility wouldnt go amiss.
You are right of course.

To SS90
An unreserved apology for my uncivil and confrontational reply to your post.
I apologise for any offence you may have taken from any of my belittling comments directed at you.
I should have made my points and left it at that.

I think we can agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I hope your business is going well and you haven't been hit too hard by the financial ructions in that part of the world.
All the best
Regards
Paul

[SS90]

You are right of course.


Paul

Then prove me wrong.

Start importing container loads of bikes into New Zealand, then, post your GST return on here.

Show us all just How cheap it is to bring bikes into NZ.

Actually, you previously told me that " you had a small side business"...... "Importing second hand cars into New Zealand"....... So let's do away with all the nonsense, and PROVE it to me..........

[short-circuit]

Well my dad is bigger than any of your dads so suck ma nuts bitches