Race numbers - a bitch... [Archive]

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 09:50

Transponders do not replace physical numbers.

On behalf of all the hard-working volunteers, especially the trackside marshals...
SORT YOUR FERKIN NUMBERS OUT

We know that many modern bikes do pose a problem when it comes to fitting numbers that comply with the rule book. Said rule book is proving to be impossible to download from MNZ's website, so I can't find the latest approved size. As I recall it, the numbers themselves are supposed to be 150mm high (but I can't find this on their .pdf anymore. What I can find is this -

Number Boards
Size: Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm, oval or
rectangular in shape.
Placement: 3 number boards to be affixed or placed upon the motorcycle,
in colours required for the class as follows:
Front: Facing forwards, with not more than 30 degrees forwards from
vertical.
Sides: One either side of the motorcycle in a position clearly visible
when the rider (and passenger for sidecars) is seated in their
usual riding position.
In a place on separate boards, a space of equivalent size and shape can be on
the bodywork or streamlining.
Figures all classes:
Figures must be clearly legible and both numbers and
backgrounds must be in a non-gloss finish
A plain form of figure shall be used.

Anyway, in recent times there is an increasing number of riders whose bikes are so far away from these requirements, and whose number style, size, position (if they even exist at all) are such that us poor bunnies trackside cannot identify some bikes when required. This can be to report a problem with a bike, or a particularly naughty infringement ontrack. For the start/finish peoples, it can be as simple as putting out the white flag FOR THE CORRECT BIKE! The electronic equipment might tell us who is in front, but not until they've gone past. Or the screen often goes dead for long periods, meaning the old manual system (eyes) is critical.

Some of you may even be having a laugh, at our expense (See attached. That does not 67 make, eh Luke?)

So come on, guys. Do us all a favour and sort it out. The time is rapidly approaching when the officials may refuse you entry to the track if your numbers can't be clearly read.

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 10:10

On a lighter note, the racing yesterday was superb. Under trying conditions, you guys and guyesses put on a great show.
And the sportsmanship shown by that rider in the Superlight/Streetstock race was gold medal. You allowed Mihi to finish her first race ever, and get a chequered flag.
WELL DONE, SIR!!!!

CHOPPA

20th June 2011, 11:40

Maybe a standardised font would be appropriate? Numbers on the bikes in oz look a bit gay but they are clearly visable

Deano

20th June 2011, 11:46

I told Luke it was a silly idea !!

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 12:05

Maybe a standardised font would be appropriate? Numbers on the bikes in oz look a bit gay but they are clearly visable

We-e-ll...

I don't think it needs to be too regimented. Just use some common sense and have a thought towards those that need to read a number at a distance and/or when it's moving at high speed.
The attached shows highly suitable on the left, not so much on the right.
Although it's plain block the style of the 1 on the top right means it could be mistaken for 723, the second one could be mistaken for 128, and the others are too ornate or thin or both.

Shaun

20th June 2011, 12:06

Maybe a standardised font would be appropriate? Numbers on the bikes in oz look a bit gay but they are clearly visable

What, you mean like Shirrifs bike no;s "GAY"

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 12:23

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 12:46

Yep. And no-one wants that.
Or god forbid....a return to actual number boards.

Tony.OK

20th June 2011, 13:05

If people don't watch out numbers will end up heavily regulated and enforced. Should MNZ etc get sufficiently pissed off I'm sure you'll see people not passing scrutineering because their numbers don't match the letter of the law.

If Scrutineers start using a tape measure on numbers and backgrounds racers will only have themselves to blame.

Wasn't there a thread or post about #'s being checked at the HD rnd of Nats?

Seems odd the rules have disappeared, it was stated when I got into it that figure font must be "Ariel" and figures must be 25mm thick. And the figures had to be a certain height too.....can't remember now though, 150mm or so.

The way the rules are now it only mentions the "number board" size, not the figures, only that figures must be legible.........thats open to differing opinions ain't it? At what distance, angle etc?

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 13:14

Wasn't there a thread or post about #'s being checked at the HD rnd of Nats?

Seems odd the rules have disappeared, it was stated when I got into it that figure font must be "Ariel" and figures must be 25mm thick. And the figures had to be a certain height too.....can't remember now though, 150mm or so.

The way the rules are now it only mentions the "number board" size, not the figures, only that figures must be legible.........thats open to differing opinions ain't it? At what distance, angle etc?

That's the one in my pic top right...not the best block font to use.
I think I'm like the other 'officials'...we don't mind what font/s are used, as long as it's easy to read.
And I'm sure we all want to keep it that way.

Shaun

20th June 2011, 13:19

Fixed it for ya

Marshalls, NO MORE MASTURBATION and Compulsory Carrot eating for a week prior :(

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 13:26

You do know that eating too many carrots turns you orange? Oh...wait...you already knew that...:nya:

Shaun

20th June 2011, 13:33

You do know that eating too many carrots turns you orange? Oh...wait...you already knew that...:nya:

Haha helps me see after the other hobbey though

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 13:38

So one is the antidote to the other?

Shaun

20th June 2011, 13:47

So one is the antidote to the other?

Kinda Like my meds really

I take Prozac and Viagra at the same time- WHY-- So I don;t give a fek when I don't get a fek:lol:

I thought it funny anyway

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 13:47

Seems odd the rules have disappeared, it was stated when I got into it that figure font must be "Ariel" and figures must be 25mm thick. And the figures had to be a certain height too.....can't remember now though, 150mm or so.

I've seen that in the rules. Looked it up when I had my bike repainted. But, of course, now when I have a look there's no mention of the font or height of the numbers so it must've been in the 2009 rule book??

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 13:54

Tony.OK

20th June 2011, 14:02

Maybe MNZ listened to rider complaints about not being able to comply with number regs - what with body styling being the way it is now, placing a 150mm high number on each side of a tailpiece would be impossible?
So MNZ removed that part of the regs without replacing it with something about using commonsense?

That rule changed a while ago, the 1000cc and 600cc classes have only needed 1 number on the tail piece for a while now, its still in the appendix's for those classes.

Side fairing #'s may be the go eh? MNZ has that option in the regs now but not compulsory.

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 14:12

Side fairing numbers would be good. Except if you don't have side fairings on :facepalm:

Kiwi Graham

20th June 2011, 14:30

241142241141241132

Side fairing is the way to go for fully faired bikes obviously.

The amount of noise being made now about poor number visability from Stewards, marshals, spectators and other race officials we shall be back to paint tin lids unless we (the riders) sort our shit out.

If its clearly visable MNZ will let you get away with a slight bend in the rules I would suspect. But if we do nothing then they will enforce the letter of the law simple as that really.

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 14:31

Side fairing numbers would be good. Except if you don't have side fairings on :facepalm:

I've often thought that numbers could go on the sides. But not only does that mean sponsors area/s are reduced - the simplest little lie down could mean requiring a constant supply of spare numbers in the kit.
I actually think that getting too specific is counterproductive, but leaving it 'loose' also carries it's own problems.
What to do, eh?

How about...
Race numbers.
Must be a plain font, easy to read with the naked eye at 100m distance.
Front - to be 150mm high
Sides - to be a minimum of 100mm high, to be placed on each side of either tail-piece or main fairing, and in such a position that it is not obscured by normal riding position.

There are a lot of bikes where the tail-piece is not suitable, but the belly blade under/behind the footpegs would be fine. The single number on the tail-piece that TonyOK referred to might be in the rules, but honestly - it's not that great for trackside. Bike may be leaning away from the observer, or the number is upside down...bike 99 becomes 66. Imagine the furore over a complaint for instance?

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 14:39

Sponsorship logo's that aren't in the prime spot are often impossible to see on a moving bike so I don't know if that's such a big issue. Moving the numbers to the side fairings instead of the tail leaves the entire tail for sponsorship, which is seen in the pits etc.

Marknz

20th June 2011, 14:40

Transponders do not replace physical numbers.

On behalf of all the hard-working volunteers, especially the trackside marshals...
SORT YOUR FERKIN NUMBERS OUT

I'm #67 in the Clubmans class... can you tell me what colour numbers, what font, and what colour background a Clubmans class racer should be using please? I'm advised that 99% of the attendees could see the four sets of numbers on my bike on the weekend, but I have to change mine because one person complained.

Please advise

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 14:44

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 14:52

I'm #67 in the Clubmans class... can you tell me what colour numbers, what font, and what colour background a Clubmans class racer should be using please? I'm advised that 99% of the attendees could see the four sets of numbers on my bike on the weekend, but I have to change mine because one person complained.

Please advise

I don't know about class/colours. That is not an issue for marshals etc. Besides, with all the cross-entering that goes on...:weep:
As for any particular bike, this weekend there were an awful lot that were awful. Either too small, or not there at all, or terrible style, for instance.
The 2 bikes that do jump to mind, were one with a too small/dull gold 67 on a black background - and Mister RomanNumerals/OldEnglishStoneMasonFont (took me awhile to figure out he wasn't from LEVIN...)

Ooops, just re-read your post. I don't know of any complaints as such about yours - but it certainly wasn't that easy to see.

Marknz

20th June 2011, 14:54

2010 Manual of Motorcycle Spor (http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/2010%20Manual%20of%20Motorcycle%20Sport%20-%20all%20chapters.pdf)t - 10.2.3 & 10.3

Thanks. Nothing for Clubmans is there... and there is nothing that says what size the numbers should be for any class, other than what size the number board should be... so in actual theory, if one was wanting to be awkward..... never mind. I'll just get the bloody things changed

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 15:01

Mental Trousers

20th June 2011, 15:16

Thanks. Nothing for Clubmans is there... and there is nothing that says what size the numbers should be for any class, other than what size the number board should be... so in actual theory, if one was wanting to be awkward..... never mind. I'll just get the bloody things changed

Good point. In that case the Club running the meeting should cover Clubmans in the Supplementary Rules that are printed on the entry form. However

No championship points will be awarded to riders. Engine size open.
At the Manfeild short circuit, the lower limit for Clubmans will be approximately 1:18. Crossing this threshold will be allowed 3 times only. After that the rider will be moved to an appropriate class if there is room.

Race Numbers:
Race Numbers must remain consistent throughout the series due to the timing system used. MNZ allocated Numbers are preferred; the organisers retain the right to change race numbers if required. Leave the Race Number field and the entry form blank if you want the organisers to allocate a series number (200 or above).

So it would seem there's no particular colour/background for Clubmans (that I can find anyway), although there is size of number board and width of numbers (MNZ regs covering all road racing).

MSTRS

20th June 2011, 15:16

There's some stunning photos in here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139138-VMCC-Round-2-Photos?p=1130090453#post1130090453)
And some that show exactly what I'm bitching about.

GirrlRacer

20th June 2011, 19:00

Kickaha

20th June 2011, 19:34

I don't think MNZ or the clubs have the balls to enforce the rule regarding numbers and they've let it slide to long

I can remember it being bought up at the MNZ AGM at Nelson which would be 4 years ago at least and still nothing has been done

daytona

20th June 2011, 20:38

Numbers and colours are to show the capacity of the machine not the class it races in. ie Clubmans classes (and others) could have several different colour numbers in the same race.

Clivoris

20th June 2011, 21:40

Kickaha

20th June 2011, 21:41

Numbers and colours are to show the capacity of the machine not the class it races in. ie Clubmans classes (and others) could have several different colour numbers in the same race.

Wrong, you can identify a class by the colour of the number board, they all have specific colours, some classes like post classic may also have different colours to differentiate cc limits within it

Clubmans generally have a mix of colours because there is a mix of "different classes" within it

yungatart

21st June 2011, 07:57

I don't know about class/colours. That is not an issue for marshals etc. Besides, with all the cross-entering that goes on...:weep:
As for any particular bike, this weekend there were an awful lot that were awful. Either too small, or not there at all, or terrible style, for instance.
The 2 bikes that do jump to mind, were one with a too small/dull gold 67 on a black background - and Mister RomanNumerals/OldEnglishStoneMasonFont (took me awhile to figure out he wasn't from LEVIN...)
Ooops, just re-read your post. I don't know of any complaints as such about yours - but it certainly wasn't that easy to see.

That rider needs to spend a weekend in the wet on point 6 on the extension track, with no lunch break. While he's out there, I will dream up a suitable punishment for him. I'm not sure if it was an attempt at taking the piss or if he genuinely believed he was being clever....

jellywrestler

21st June 2011, 08:23

I can remember it being bought up at the MNZ AGM at Nelson which would be 4 years ago at least and still nothing has been done
and at the nelson conference about 14 years ago too

driftn

21st June 2011, 09:50

There's some stunning photos in here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139138-VMCC-Round-2-Photos?p=1130090453#post1130090453)
And some that show exactly what I'm bitching about.

Looks awesome, So I understand why you need the numbers for incase they need to point something out to you. Heres an idea.... The guy with the funny numbers bikes shat it self wave a flag at him. Just throwing it out there.

White trash

21st June 2011, 10:08

Looks awesome, So I understand why you need the numbers for incase they need to point something out to you. Heres an idea.... The guy with the funny numbers bikes shat it self wave a flag at him. Just throwing it out there.

You fucking idiot. How are flaggies supposed to quickly communicate issues with a bike between flag points if they can't read the number? Or are you suggesting that they just let the bike continue for a whole lap back to the first point of attention and then wave a flag at the rider?

Sharpen up son.

jellywrestler

21st June 2011, 10:15

Heres an idea.... The guy with the funny numbers bikes shat it self wave a flag at him. Just throwing it out there.
can you convert this to english please?

I've had a look at the photos and would say these numbers need urgent attention.
This is by no means all that need them though and remember these are static shots, you've got time to look at them they're not on a track at speed.
167
67
398
51 although i will concede that this is the barrell 51 logo and sponsorship so there's some merit in that
124
83
& the one in swahili too
44 (not bob grover)
11
171
218
34

Ivan

21st June 2011, 12:25

so my graffitii design numbers will be no good then if i make a return

jellywrestler

21st June 2011, 12:29

so my graffitii design numbers will be no good then if i make a returndepends what you want out of racing. Do you want your mates to go along and follow you, if so make your numbers clear, do you want the commentators to notice you, make your numbers clear, once the commentators notice you, and they mention you others will be interested to see who you are etc, make your numbers clear.
that's aside from the safety angle; it's not rocket science really...

Tony.OK

21st June 2011, 12:37

malcy25

21st June 2011, 13:05

Yea - Clubmans is really an orphan class. There was at least one there yesterday that had no numbers at all. Think it was that old Guzzi that lost his side cover.
If you stand a good distance from your bike, and the number is too small or the colour contrast to the background isn't flash....:weep:

About 10 years ago I wrote the remit that became the basis of the number board rules now - there has been some variations, but much of what I wrote is still there (the single number on the seat I'm not responsible for.). The reason for the remit was the existing rules at the time said the numbers had to be in a specific location - behind the rider and were essentially bloody hard to implement on some bikes.

I specifically didnt include a specific font (which Aussie did a few years ago), and basically tried to constrauct a set of rules which allowed min required standards, but maximum flexibility taking into account reality Eg, replacing behind the rider with being visible when the rider is seated so that fairing surface area coud be used.

There have been adititions and changes, but the rules are pretty simple to read really and should be able to accomodate all bikes with a bit of thought and places the onus on the rider to sort their stuff out. As per usual, most issues arise because riders don't read the rule book, or perceive the rules don;t apply to them.

Clubmans colours. The MNZ rule book only deals with nationally recognised classes. Most bikes even when being used in Clubmans will fit into one of the classes listed. Use that colour.

Number board size: No brainer. The rule books does not provide variation of size based upon class.

As you were.

MSTRS

21st June 2011, 13:17

About 10 years ago I wrote the remit that became the basis of the number board rules now - there has been some variations, but much of what I wrote is still there (the single number on the seat I'm not responsible for.). The reason for the remit was the existing rules at the time said the numbers had to be in a specific location - behind the rider and were essentially bloody hard to implement on some bikes.

I specifically didnt include a specific font (which Aussie did a few years ago), and basically tried to constrauct a set of rules which allowed min required standards, but maximum flexibility taking into account reality Eg, replacing behind the rider with being visible when the rider is seated so that fairing surface area coud be used.

There have been adititions and changes, but the rules are pretty simple to read really and should be able to accomodate all bikes with a bit of thought and places the onus on the rider to sort their stuff out. As per usual, most issues arise because riders don't read the rule book, or perceive the rules don;t apply to them.

Clubmans colours. The MNZ rule book only deals with nationally recognised classes. Most bikes even when being used in Clubmans will fit into one of the classes listed. Use that colour.

Number board size: No brainer. The rule books does not provide variation of size based upon class.

As you were.

Thanks for your detailed reply.
However, I do think the time has come for the rules surrounding numbers to be re-written*. For example, the number board size (or the background equivalent on fairings) is again obselete on some bikes, and why specify that size in the rules but remove the lettering size?
Nobody wants it to be too regimented, but the whole issue needs to be addressed in a form that allows some variation, yet ensures legibility.

*and policed...

Shaun

21st June 2011, 13:57

yungatart

21st June 2011, 16:18

Looks awesome, So I understand why you need the numbers for incase they need to point something out to you. Heres an idea.... The guy with the funny numbers bikes shat it self wave a flag at him. Just throwing it out there.

Or, alternatively, throw a long poled flag between your spokes. I can do that on the dummy grid or the start grid...whaddya prefer?
Seeing as its a safety issue, I don't think I should do it whilst you are actually racing...

Ivan

21st June 2011, 16:39

depends what you want out of racing. Do you want your mates to go along and follow you, if so make your numbers clear, do you want the commentators to notice you, make your numbers clear, once the commentators notice you, and they mention you others will be interested to see who you are etc, make your numbers clear.
that's aside from the safety angle; it's not rocket science really...

I dont think you understood I was taking the piss, Everyone who knows me Ivan Juggins #59 for the last 8 years bar 1 season in pro twins as #159 has always had my numbers in the correct number board and colour and basic style, I was more or less taking the piss cause well every body else does on this site,

I have no problem with Ray noticing me in commentary even picked up i was on a 600 first ever time I rode one and continued to comment on it (have a video were I can hear his commentary)

Im pretty sure most people know who I am by now

Regarding numbers if this law gets inforced I dont think the barrel 51 logo should stay as a number sadly I think it looks cool but thats to hard to inforce if its sponsorship as my comment was kind of a joke the local graffiti king could design me up some mad graffiti designs and sponsor me by tagging my fence then can i say I want this number tho as its sponsorship

also Barrel 1 person I am not trying to pick on you if you are reading this just using your bike as a example well because as a spectator saturday your bike stood out in the crowd and I thought it was awsome, I dont actually look at bikes numbers when Im spectating just the racing and ifthat bike catches my fancy ill go look at in the pits by wandering around not by reading the program

so yeah your bike looks cool! as a spectator I liked it!!!

Ivan

21st June 2011, 16:46

also as a safety point of view I can understand this Ihave thought about this long and hard but never thought of "safety" aspect of it,

that since we are in a modern electronic age why we need numbers when we have transponders but now I can sort of see why,

Sad thing is I have a real basic font number easy to understand etc even from a distance but it is full of designs on the inside so will be illegal, I reckon that a common font should be picked but regarding the actual number colour etc you should allow that to be open,

See my one is 59 inside just common old Times new roman but the number itself is the new zealand flag inside

MSTRS

21st June 2011, 17:59

To me, you started the thread based on a SAFETY ISSUE, ie, cannot identify bike/rider if reqd too Urgently Correct?

If this is correct, the awnser i simple mate, " The road race commisioner can change rules based on Safety over night"

If you genuinely see this as a safety issue, email the commisioner and discuss with them.

###### Include in SUB REGS for next round what the requirements are for numbers and boards so NO EXSCUSE for anyone

Partly safety, but also because trackside 'officials' may have any number of reasons for needing to identify a bike at speed and at some distance.

Good idea to officially contact MNZ about this issue. Before I do that (or someone else does) I've put this together as possible wording for the number rule/s. Any suggestions? Yes yes - I know....

ROAD RACE NUMBERS

Font must be of a plain style, without excessive embellishment, such as but not limited to, Arial or Comic Sans.

One number is to be placed centrally on the front of the bike, on a mounted board OR on a fairing, in the position normally occupied by a headlight. Minimum size 150mm in height.

One number is to be placed on each side of the bike, as near to the rear as possible, on a mounted board OR on the tailpiece OR on the side fairing in such a place that a normal riding position does not obscure it. Minimum size 120mm in height.

Number board and/or background class colour may be rectangular or oval and is to be at least 20mm larger all round as any number upon it.

Mental Trousers

21st June 2011, 18:22

ROAD RACE NUMBERS

Font must be of a plain style, without excessive embellishment, such as but not limited to, Arial or Comic Sans and must be easily read from a minimum distance of 50m

One number is to be placed centrally on the front of the bike, on a mounted board OR on a fairing, in the position normally occupied by a headlight. Minimum size 150mm in height.

One number is to be placed on each side of the bike, as near to the rear as possible, on a mounted board OR on the tailpiece OR on the side fairing in such a place that a normal riding position does not obscure it. Minimum size 120mm in height.

Number board and/or background class colour may be rectangular or oval and is to be at least 20mm larger all round as any number upon it.

Something like that maybe??

RobGassit

21st June 2011, 18:39

At the risk of offending probably everybody, for anyone with a sense of humor, the Roman Numerals was pure genius, and the funniest thing I've seen on a front row for years. :rofl:

malcy25

21st June 2011, 22:46

Thanks for your detailed reply.
However, I do think the time has come for the rules surrounding numbers to be re-written*. For example, the number board size (or the background equivalent on fairings) is again obselete on some bikes, and why specify that size in the rules but remove the lettering size?
Nobody wants it to be too regimented, but the whole issue needs to be addressed in a form that allows some variation, yet ensures legibility.

*and policed...

Agree with the policing and in fact I know the AMCC has a test board now.

Font SIZE if I recall correctly WAS in the rule set I created. But 10 years is a long time for changes to be made.

I don't agree with the fact that the board / background size is obsolete because the bike style has changed. Over the same period I bet the average quality of sight hasn't. What you are intimating is making these smaller and thus harder to read - something that we are all moaning about now.

As I have said on previous posts on this subject, what did we all do before bikes and fairings and large seat units? The riders got their shit together still and had numbers on their bikes, and were readable.

I like the readable bit Mental Trousers added to MSTRS post requiring readibility from a distance - excellent idea. MSTRS changes are just facsimile of what I wrote 10 years ago being 1 in front, 1 each side visible with a rider in place. I still content they don't need to be as rearward as possible (I have multiple bikes with plenty of fairing space in front of my knee, well visible. All good stuff really as multiple people are now starting to see what may officials have been having issues with for a while. Long may it get to a point that riders take action.

MSTRS

22nd June 2011, 07:51

Font SIZE if I recall correctly WAS in the rule set I created. But 10 years is a long time for changes to be made.
I believe that font size has only just been removed from the rules. It was definitely in there at the time I did the thread about flags and their uses.

I don't agree with the fact that the board / background size is obsolete because the bike style has changed. Over the same period I bet the average quality of sight hasn't. What you are intimating is making these smaller and thus harder to read - something that we are all moaning about now.
What is the point of having a specified size of 285x235 when the number size isn't? And the fact that there is no way that size is even available on many tailpieces. That's what I meant.

As I have said on previous posts on this subject, what did we all do before bikes and fairings and large seat units? The riders got their shit together still and had numbers on their bikes, and were readable.
Maybe it was policed?
I like the readable bit Mental Trousers added to MSTRS post requiring readibility from a distance - excellent idea. MSTRS changes are just facsimile of what I wrote 10 years ago being 1 in front, 1 each side visible with a rider in place. I still content they don't need to be as rearward as possible (I have multiple bikes with plenty of fairing space in front of my knee, well visible.
I think the idea is that numbers are clearly visible with the bike either coming or going from the observer's pov and at an angle. It makes sense to have the numbers at each end of the bike.
<ggjhguygbgh>

lukemillar

22nd June 2011, 07:54

Can I ask a potentially stupid question? Just want to play devils advocate...

I was watching BSB and BSS last night and hardly any of the numbers conform to a standard regarding size (colour yes, but not size or font). Pretty much the same deal in WSB and WSS as well.

If safety is the main concern, then surely these series would be the leading example, no? Not looking to annoy anyone, I'm just curious.

White trash

22nd June 2011, 08:38

At the risk of offending probably everybody, for anyone with a sense of humor, the Roman Numerals was pure genius, and the funniest thing I've seen on a front row for years. :rofl:

No offence here Rob. However, knowing the offending rider as well as I do, I can assure you that genius played no part whatsoever in that decision.....

malcy25

22nd June 2011, 10:46

As I have said on previous posts on this subject, what did we all do before bikes and fairings and large seat units? The riders got their shit together still and had numbers on their bikes, and were readable.

Maybe it was policed?
1) probably was policed - as have many people in the last few years have tried and been told to bugger off by the riders
2) The point I was alluding to was they made number boards that did comply as the same issue was then as we have now - no suitable fairing space (ie no fairing) to fit it on so they had to come up with an alternative. I'm not proposing we all go back to separate number boards bolted on like in the 70's and 80's, but what I am saying is that riders got the stuff in one sock and got over it before. They just need to use a bit of lateral thinking this time. The rest of the world has.

White trash

22nd June 2011, 10:58

I think the reason they were so receptive to seperate number boards in the 70s/80s was that was the only way to distinguish a "real" race bike from a street bike.

RobGassit

22nd June 2011, 11:44

How about a fin shaped board attached to the top of the riders helmet?

malcy25

22nd June 2011, 12:07

How about a fin shaped board attached to the top of the riders helmet?

Just don't look at:
The guy passing you
your pit board
Your girl friend
etc etc
while riding!

RobGassit

22nd June 2011, 12:26

Just don't look at:
The guy passing you
your pit board
Your girl friend
etc etc
while riding!

Well yeah, sure, there is that, but you could have holes in it like the GP125 bikes do in their front fairings for cross winds.
And what about the safety advantages. There you are,, zippin along all fast like, and hey presto! you highside!! You're flyin thru the air thinkin?? I can see my truck parked in the pits from here,, when you realise you're heading for the fence. Well all you have to do is lower your helmet and the fin will cut a hole for you. I reakon it's worth lookin into,,

MSTRS

22nd June 2011, 17:09

1) probably was policed - as have many people in the last few years have tried and been told to bugger off by the riders

2) The point I was alluding to was they made number boards that did comply as the same issue was then as we have now - no suitable fairing space (ie no fairing) to fit it on so they had to come up with an alternative. I'm not proposing we all go back to separate number boards bolted on like in the 70's and 80's, but what I am saying is that riders got the stuff in one sock and got over it before. They just need to use a bit of lateral thinking this time. The rest of the world has.

I agree that returning to number boards is probably not a goer. Frame designs these days are not remotely friendly to extra attachments.
But as for riders telling race officials to 'bugger off'...who's in charge?
As one rider was told "We can run a race meeting without you. Can you run one without us?"

malcy25

22nd June 2011, 22:07

As one rider was told "We can run a race meeting without you. Can you run one without us?"

Love it!
10 chars...!

yungatart

23rd June 2011, 07:48

How about a fin shaped board attached to the top of the riders helmet?

A number needs to be able to be seen front on, as well as side on, so the start/finish line marshalls can flag the right bike.

driftn

23rd June 2011, 08:08

I have only read the last page of this as am rather quite lazy today. My tail section does not really have the room to facilitate numbers. Would a number on the front and some on the side of fairings be enough?.

yungatart

23rd June 2011, 08:14

MSTRS

23rd June 2011, 09:16

They just need to use a bit of lateral thinking this time.

Like this guy (http://stimpy.smugmug.com/Motorsport/Actrix-Winter-Series-R2/17617421_BfB5Fz#1342549756_JCmvnCr-A-LB)
The rules say that he can put a single number on the top of his tailpiece...but this rider obviously recognises how useless that would be.

RobGassit

23rd June 2011, 09:19

Eh? You managed to put 5 roman numerals there, how come it won't fit 2 numbers?

Make him wear the Helmet Fin. He's the trouble maker that started all this. Make an example of him I say.:yeah:

RobGassit

23rd June 2011, 09:23

A number needs to be able to be seen front on, as well as side on, so the start/finish line marshalls can flag the right bike.

Actually my bike needs a good flagging. Can i make a booking?

MSTRS

23rd June 2011, 09:26

Make him wear the Helmet Fin. He's the trouble maker that started all this. Make an example of him I say.:yeah:

Nah. The grumblings have been around for a while...
Whilst MrLXVII may have had us all scratching our heads, at least his characters were visible.

Actually my bike needs a good flagging. Can i make a booking?

Maybe the rider needs a good flogging? Mistress Yungatart could no doubt arrange that, too...:lol:

driftn

23rd June 2011, 10:17

Nah. The grumblings have been around for a while...
Whilst MrLXVII may have had us all scratching our heads, at least his characters were visible.
:

Does this mean I can keep them :2thumbsup

Mental Trousers

23rd June 2011, 10:38

Like this guy (http://stimpy.smugmug.com/Motorsport/Actrix-Winter-Series-R2/17617421_BfB5Fz#1342549756_JCmvnCr-A-LB)
The rules say that he can put a single number on the top of his tailpiece...but this rider obviously recognises how useless that would be.

An extremely unusual case of common sense. That's awesome.

Does this mean I can keep them :2thumbsup

Isn't being referred to as that fucken idiot with the unreadable shit numbers over the radios enough discouragement??

MSTRS

23rd June 2011, 10:47

Does this mean I can keep them :2thumbsup

I guess so. Until the rules are fixed. Afterall, you obviously haven't got room for the more sensible option...:drool:

yungatart

23rd June 2011, 16:10

Actually my bike needs a good flagging. Can i make a booking?

Sure! ...damm, thought that read flogging...

Maybe the rider needs a good flogging? Mistress Yungatart could no doubt arrange that, too...:lol:
Absolutely...

Does this mean I can keep them :2thumbsup
Sure..on your bedroom wall maybe, but, if I have my way, not on your bike.

Ronin

23rd June 2011, 16:42

Here is another way of looking at it. Should the timing gear go down then manual lap timing will happen and if they can't read your number from the tower then you are well and truly rooted.

RobGassit

23rd June 2011, 16:45

Here is another way of looking at it. Should the timing gear go down then manual lap timing will happen and if they can't read your number from the tower then you are well and truly rooted.

Exactly what I was saying. The Helmet fin is clearly the answer.

yungatart

23rd June 2011, 16:47

Exactly what I was saying. The Helmet fin is clearly the answer.

You are joking, aren't you?

RobGassit

23rd June 2011, 16:58

You are joking, aren't you?

Deadly serious. A: It complies with MNZ number Visibility, B: It frees up the bike for advertising, C: It's a fashion statement, D: Rider is still identifiable when he's in the pits, in the hotdog queue or on the john and of course, e: It acts as a spreader when he goes thru the fence at the end of the main straight! It's bloody genius!!!

p.s.. I bet you a dollar this thread goes on longer than the lunch break,,, I'm just sayin!

yungatart

23rd June 2011, 17:22

Deadly serious. A: It complies with MNZ number Visibility, B: It frees up the bike for advertising, C: It's a fashion statement, D: Rider is still identifiable when he's in the pits, in the hotdog queue or on the john and of course, e: It acts as a spreader when he goes thru the fence at the end of the main straight! It's bloody genius!!!

p.s.. I bet you a dollar this thread goes on longer than the lunch break,,, I'm just sayin!

And, pray tell, how the hell are the marshalls on the start/finish line supposed to read it as it comes through the Dunlop sweeper?
Actually, you are right, they are probably on a lunch break anyway....

RDjase

23rd June 2011, 18:12

Exactly what I was saying. The Helmet fin is clearly the answer.

It would only work on a Shark helmet;)

Kickaha

23rd June 2011, 18:58

I guess so. Until the rules are fixed.

Nothing wrong with the the rules the way they are it just needs the clubs to grow some balls and start enforcing them

Next meeting every bike with numbers that don't comply is told they can run this time but next meeting if the numbers don't comply don't bother getting it out of the van

pipson

23rd June 2011, 19:40

To fix the number problem it is easy:

If there is a problem with a bike or rider that needs to be reported to race control & the number on the bike can not be read by the marshals then RED FLAG the race, all bike return to the start line the bike & rider are removed in front of all the other rides & the then the race is started from the red flag lap. (1 lap to go then it is a 1 lap sprint.)
If the start/ finish can not read your number as you come up at 150+ km in time to get the chequered flag out in time or can’t read it at all then they give the chequered flag to the first bike they can read even if they third or forth.
If this was done for one race meeting I am sure that the next meeting a lot of bikes would have new easy to read numbers.

I am in the proses of going through 1100 photos from R2 even after cropping & zooming in I still can’t read some numbers.

MSTRS

24th June 2011, 07:47

Nothing wrong with the the rules the way they are it just needs the clubs to grow some balls and start enforcing them

Next meeting every bike with numbers that don't comply is told they can run this time but next meeting if the numbers don't comply don't bother getting it out of the van

There is, actually. The size of the number is no longer specified.

suzuki21

24th June 2011, 07:52

Exactly what I was saying. The Helmet fin is clearly the answer.

That wouldnt work for Craig Shirrifs, his number 56 would read 95 most of the time.

yungatart

24th June 2011, 07:55

To fix the number problem it is easy:

If there is a problem with a bike or rider that needs to be reported to race control & the number on the bike can not be read by the marshals then RED FLAG the race, all bike return to the start line the bike & rider are removed in front of all the other rides & the then the race is started from the red flag lap. (1 lap to go then it is a 1 lap sprint.)
If the start/ finish can not read your number as you come up at 150+ km in time to get the chequered flag out in time or can’t read it at all then they give the chequered flag to the first bike they can read even if they third or forth. If this was done for one race meeting I am sure that the next meeting a lot of bikes would have new easy to read numbers.

I am in the proses of going through 1100 photos from R2 even after cropping & zooming in I still can’t read some numbers.

I don't want to be on the start/finish line if that happens...can you imagine the tantrums when the prima donnas realise?

suzuki21

24th June 2011, 07:56

The manufacturers arent changing motorcycle design just so New Zealnders can read numbers easier. If the original rules were enforced number boards would - overheat motors, mufflers would melt side number boards, and we would be the laughing stock around the world.

NordieBoy

24th June 2011, 08:10

You need to take a leaf from the x-country book.
Numbers are good but have a nice little 1 lane chicane before the timing tent so they can zap the barcode on your helmet and once the light turns green, you're off.

Problem solved.

Also marshalls that know everything and everyone.

Eg. I found a rear alloy disc protector at the last race.
Marshall goes "that's off an xr400, Rob lost it about 2 years ago..."

driftn

24th June 2011, 08:27

Well my numbers actually do read 67, any body with an education could work it out. I sign in as 67. Qualify on pole (not every time i know) as Luke Mair #67 it has LXVII on the bike, we dont need Stephen Hawkins to work out what it says do we?...... Really?.
I am aware that this thread is not just about my attempt at trying some thing different, I am in the process of making things easier (and regulation) for people to read but I assure you of this people LXVIIis here to stay

Now, can we please get some :calm: on the farm.

driftn

24th June 2011, 08:32

Eg. I found a rear alloy disc protector at the last race.
Marshall goes "that's off an xr400, Rob lost it about 2 years ago..."

Is that the thing I belted with my knee on the big left entering back on to the old track.

jellywrestler

24th June 2011, 09:42

That wouldnt work for Craig Shirrifs, his number 56 would read 95 most of the time.
Yeah and Tony Rees at the hairpin,
11 most of the time but = at the hairpin!!

Shaun

24th June 2011, 12:57

Yeah and Tony Rees at the hairpin,
11 most of the time but = at the hairpin!!

Bit early to have ya bottle open man haha

MSTRS

24th June 2011, 14:59

At the end of the day, all we want is to be able to look at a bike as it approaches/goes past a point, and see the number clearly.
Flag points need to be able to identify a bike to Race Control if there is an issue, and Start/Finish need to be able to white/chequer flag the correct bike.
Riders at both round 1 and 2 got shown a white in error, because numbers were hard to see and there just isn't time to 'discuss' between exiting Dunlop and crossing the line.

MSTRS

25th June 2011, 11:09

Remind anyone of anything?

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wfmvkO5x6Ng" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

quickbuck

17th July 2011, 15:19

Okay,
After being told my numbers are not Legible from the track side, these are the issues I have:

IAW (in accordance with) the Rules on the MNZ Site, the only place I can actually fit a 285 x 235 mm number board is on the tail piece. And then only ONE, pointing to the Sky, and number read from the rear of the bike (not the side).

The front is too small to fit a 285 x 235 number board ANYWHERE!
So we have painted a Orange board 260 x 190 and the numbers are actually base colour.
That is as big as it can be.
I can not put the number across the middle, as the nose of the Ninja is very sharp, and one could think I am #2! Not #42.

I know it is on the Right hand side, and difficult to read at Manfeild.
The thing is, it is perfect for Taupo, Hampton Downs, Ruapuna and Levels.

IAW the MNZ Rules, I can put a number on the side of the bike, but there is no way I can get a 150mm high number on there anywhere, let alone any sort of number board that matches the regulation.

Now have a look through Pipsons Photos from round 2, and tell me how many I am in you can not read the number on my bike.
To save you a fruitless search, the answer is ZERO! You can see my number in every photo I feature in.

So, the only real way to get around this, and keep all happy is to actually run a different fairing for tracks where the Pit wall is on the wrong side....... It will never be big enough though.

So, Billy, how much for a Spare Top Fairing?

yungatart

17th July 2011, 15:26

You could put the number on both sides of the front fairing...

quickbuck

17th July 2011, 15:35

You could put the number on both sides of the front fairing...

Nope, Sorry youngatart I looked into that:
"d) Fairing, front of fairing one number board facing forward."

Kickaha

17th July 2011, 15:44

Rider briefing at Levels on Saturday riders were told if their numbers aren't up to scratch at the next event they won't be riding

yungatart

17th July 2011, 15:49

Rider briefing at Levels on Saturday riders were told if their numbers aren't up to scratch at the next event they won't be riding

I understand that riders were told that at Manfield too, but I'm sure someone will be along to correct me soon...

yungatart

17th July 2011, 15:50

Nope, Sorry youngatart I looked into that:
"d) Fairing, front of fairing one number board facing forward."

I believe that if the front of the bike is a severe 'v' shape then 1 number each side is allowed...I could be wrong tho...

Deano

17th July 2011, 16:48

Nope, Sorry youngatart I looked into that:
"d) Fairing, front of fairing one number board facing forward."

That's not to say that you can't or or shouldn't put your number there as well - just to make your bike more easily identifiable.

Roger Cathro has done this to his R1 #980 and I did it to my SV650 - do you have room on the side fairings for numbers ?

quickbuck

17th July 2011, 16:55

]
- do you have room on the side fairings for numbers ?

No, there isn't very much area at all on the 250R
243026

FROSTY

19th July 2011, 13:26

This discussion has been going round and round and round for a few years.
Isn't it about time rather than bickering about it that a COMMON SENSE solution is agreed on and then made into an MNZ rule?
Heck aint it simple guys --If the marshals can't read your numbers then your laps mightnt get scored and not being even a tiny bit melodramatic--SOMEONE MIGHT DIE.
IMO its been made WAAAY too complicated and confrontational.
-The rule I'd propose is simple
1x front number "board" be it painted on the fairing or a flat board with the numbers able to be read from DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the bike. Background to be 285x230 and numbers to be at least 75mm wide and 150mm high-stoke width to be no less than 20mm
2x number "boards" clearly visible from directly side on to the bike affixed to any part of the side of the bike or painted onto any part of the bike. Background to be Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm, and numbers to be at least 75mm wide and 150mm high and the stroke to be at least 25mm wide

This would mean the numbers could be of the fairing sides. There could be 75-100mm "extentions" affixed to the bottom/side of most tailpieces so they are big enough.

Quite frankly guys reading between the lines a bit I don't think the marshals/organisers give a fat rats arse about MNZ this or MNZ that (In this situation) -why not just put numbers/backgrounds on in visible places so you can just focus on racing rather than spending race time figuring out who's who?

Shaun

19th July 2011, 13:34

This discussion has been going round and round and round for a few years.
Isn't it about time rather than bickering about it that a COMMON SENSE solution is agreed on and then made into an MNZ rule?
Heck aint it simple guys --If the marshals can't read your numbers then your laps mightnt get scored and not being even a tiny bit melodramatic--SOMEONE MIGHT DIE.
IMO its been made WAAAY too complicated and confrontational.
-The rule I'd propose is simple
1x front number "board" be it painted on the fairing or a flat board with the numbers able to be read from DIRECTLY IN FRONT of the bike. Background to be 230x200 and numbers to be at least 20mm wide and 150mm high.
2x number "boards" clearly visible from directly side on to the bike affixed to any part of the side of the bike or painted onto any part of the bike. Background to be 230x200 and numbers to be at least 20mm wide and 150mm high.

This would mean the numbers could be of the fairing sides. There could be 75-100mm "extentions" affixed to the bottom/side of most tailpieces so they are big enough.

Quite frankly guys reading between the lines a bit I don't think the marshals/organisers give a fat rats arse about MNZ this or MNZ that (In this situation) -why not just put numbers/backgrounds on in visible places so you can just focus on racing rather than spending race time figuring out who's who?

And now you just joined in with keeping it going round an round mate. Our rules for this issue should be as per USA UK WSS DAM SIMPLE it works in all those 3 PROFESSIONAL ENVIROMENTS.

Now who is going to copy and post this entire thread to BUDDA at MNZ as he only gets on here when he can I guess and this is only play land guys

yungatart

19th July 2011, 15:28

MNZ are dealing with it.
If the number is not clear, visible and readable at next round, the bike won't be on the track. It is as simple as that.

RobGassit

19th July 2011, 16:04

MNZ are dealing with it.
If the number is not clear, visible and readable at next round, the bike won't be on the track. It is as simple as that.

Thank God for that! It's not phucken rocket science.:woohoo:

quickbuck

19th July 2011, 18:24

To keep the thread going round and round, it is fine to have a 285 x 235mm patch on a Superbike, but the little bikes don't have that sort of acreage on them anymore..... If I could I would, as I know first hand how hard it is to pick up a bike number at speed.... I used to learn to recognise bikes by the colour and the gear the rider was wearing. It was much easier to spot from the other end of the track.

Frostys 230 x 200 is closer to more practical, and 150 x 20 numbers are pretty clear. That is the size of mine.

Now, back to my solution, my front number board is as big as practical (Yup, about 230 x 190), and on the wrong side for 3 out of 10 tracks in the country, so for those tracks I have got a second top fairing on the way..... Thanks Billy.

Not sure what to do about the tail piece though....

Numbers on the side panels will upset the paint scheme.....

Skunk

19th July 2011, 20:08

140mm high.
No overlap.
Visible at a 20 metre ride-by.
Stewards call final.

Pretty simple - all riders at Actrix Winter Series Round 3 should know it - I read it out. Use the screen if the fairing isn't big enough.
The simple thing is it must be able to be read by the flag points as you approach them from as far away as possible.

NordieBoy

19th July 2011, 20:09

MNZ are dealing with it.
If the number is not clear, visible and readable at next round, the bike won't be on the track. It is as simple as that.

But it could be clear, visible and readable and not legal?

:blink:

MSTRS

20th July 2011, 07:45

But it could be clear, visible and readable and not legal?

That's the important bit. If it takes 'legal' to achieve it, then so be it.
The riders can moan all they like, but the rules are, and mostly always have been, clear. The skirting of the rules has got to the point where something had to be done.

FROSTY

20th July 2011, 08:15

Numbers on the side panels will upset the paint scheme.....
whoopdee dooo- The numbers need to be visible -and so far you have offered excuses

Shaun

20th July 2011, 08:42

Shaun

20th July 2011, 08:45

That's the important bit. If it takes 'legal' to achieve it, then so be it.
The riders can moan all they like, but the rules are, and mostly always have been, clear. The skirting of the rules has got to the point where something had to be done.

The skirting of the rules come down to all becoming fashion victims and NO SCRUITINEERING any more??????? Which in my opinion at CLUB racing is NOT safe!

A lot of the people ( NO INSULT INTENDED) Can NOT even operate a shovel let alone Spanners

RobGassit

20th July 2011, 09:57

whoopdee dooo

Is it just me, or is there a typo in your sig?

quickbuck

20th July 2011, 17:22

whoopdee dooo- The numbers need to be visible -and so far you have offered excusesFrosty, they are plenty big enough. The issue the Flaggies told me they had was the Numbers on the front could not be seen intime to give the flag to.
Pointless having visible numbers on the side if they can only read them when the bike has already gone past......

I had a mate take photos of me from the pit wall, and at 20 metres away you can clearly see the number on the RHS of my nose fairing, cery clearly.
At 120 metres you can still see my number, no problems..... And I bet the flaggies on start finish have a better view then he had.

My only beef is to get my numbers big enough I have to pick which side to put them on, as 140mm numbers will not fit nicely, but they do where I have them.

As for using the screen (as skunk suggested), well that would be an option IF my bike wasn't road registered. It also has to comply with a WOF. I don't think you are allowed to actually cover your screen with orange paint? Could be wrong though.... Oh, and I do actually look through it!

I have actually come up with a solution (if you wish to look in the post you quoted from), that should keep all happy.....

MSTRS

20th July 2011, 17:24

The skirting of the rules come down to all becoming fashion victims and NO SCRUTINEERING any more??????? Which in my opinion at CLUB racing is NOT safe!

I tend to agree with that.
And in my opinion, MNZ got it wrong when they allowed a single number on the top of a tail fairing, too. They need to go back to one each side, and it's up to the rider to ensure it is somewhere visible (either on the tail piece or on the main fairing).

Shaun

20th July 2011, 17:31

I tend to agree with that.
And in my opinion, MNZ got it wrong when they allowed a single number on the top of a tail fairing, too. They need to go back to one each side, and it's up to the rider to ensure it is somewhere visible (either on the tail piece or on the main fairing).

Cool to the first part, but the Single number on top is a practicall decision to the modern built styling of bikes by the manufacturers.

quickbuck

20th July 2011, 17:34

I tend to agree with that.
And in my opinion, MNZ got it wrong when they allowed a single number on the top of a tail fairing, too. They need to go back to one each side, and it's up to the rider to ensure it is somewhere visible (either on the tail piece or on the main fairing).
Holy Cow!

Better write to Kawasaki and tell them they have stuffed up the design of the 250R.

If I put on a tail piece big enough to hold 4 digets, then I could be accused of enharncing the aerodynamics, and having an advantage..... And believe me, I could ;)

Tony.OK

20th July 2011, 17:44

Holy Cow!

Better write to Kawasaki and tell them they have stuffed up the design of the 250R.

If I put on a tail piece big enough to hold 4 digets, then I could be accused of enharncing the aerodynamics, and having an advantage..... And believe me, I could ;)

If your # can be seen from a distance on the "other" side of the front from pit wall, then don't you think that centering it on the front would be better? Your argument that the nose is too sharp doesn't really hold water does it if it's visible from the wrong side.
Yup 2 #'s on a modern tail just ain't possible on alot of bikes, my 08 CBR1000rr hardly had room for one correct size set of 42's.
I think a clear # of any size you can fit on the sides of the main fairing would be helpful though, most bikes have a bit of room somewhere, just keep 'em plain.

quickbuck

20th July 2011, 18:10

If your # can be seen from a distance on the "other" side of the front from pit wall, then don't you think that centering it on the front would be better? Your argument that the nose is too sharp doesn't really hold water does it if it's visible from the wrong side.
.
Ah, Tony, I was TOLD it was Too sharp and the number couldn't be read.
I have no clue, as I can't see any numbers from the cockpit, so can only go off what people tell me....
I only found evidence to the contrary today, when I saw the photos.

The front is actually smaller than the sides.

I do notice there are some quite clear numbers on the bikes in the Ninja cup, BUT TV does lie a little at a guess.

MSTRS

21st July 2011, 07:46

Yup 2 #'s on a modern tail just ain't possible on a lot of bikes, my 08 CBR1000rr hardly had room for one correct size set of 42's.
I think a clear # of any size you can fit on the sides of the main fairing would be helpful though, most bikes have a bit of room somewhere, just keep 'em plain.

Which is the alternative position when a tailpiece aint big enough.
The whole point of numbers is to ensure that eyes on the ground can see them. Having one on top of the tailpiece just doesn't cut it, from a marshal's pov.

Please believe me...MNZ is getting serious about this issue (as are we, trackside)...who wants to go back to separate number boards like these days (http://kennyblake.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1977-6HR-4RACEB.jpg)

Shaun

21st July 2011, 07:49

Which is the alternative position when a tailpiece aint big enough.
The whole point of numbers is o ensure that eyes on the ground can see them. Having one on top of the tailpiece just doesn't cut it, from a marshal's pov.

So how does it work in the other countries around the world that use this system then?

Marshalls are NOT police man

MSTRS

21st July 2011, 07:52

So how does it work in the other countries around the world that use this system then?

Marshalls are NOT police man

I only know what 'we' want here.
And what if marshals get so pissed off with not being able to recognise bikes...and walk off in frustration?

yungatart

21st July 2011, 08:37

I only know what 'we' want here.
And what if marshals get so pissed off with not being able to recognise bikes...and walk off in frustration?

Or not give the chequered flag to the right bike, because they can't read its number?

Shaun

21st July 2011, 09:05

I only know what 'we' want here.
And what if marshals get so pissed off with not being able to recognise bikes...and walk off in frustration?

Well I guess that awnsers my question then sorry, it,s Starting to sound like a sidecar or a presidents vote thread now. WHAT WE WANT!

There is another part too why NZ racing has suffered over the last few years, WE ALL operate in our own little world here, even bikes class rules do NOT fit in with any other country.

I am NOT ATTACKING MAN, just pushing for REALITY to kick in:yes:

Shaun

21st July 2011, 09:07

Or not give the chequered flag to the right bike, because they can't read its number?

Mate, every one seems to have forgotten that ALL bikes use TRANSPONDERS NOW, who the fuk neads numbers for what apart from the programme and the punters

yungatart

21st July 2011, 09:28

Mate, every one seems to have forgotten that ALL bikes use TRANSPONDERS NOW, who the fuk neads numbers for what apart from the programme and the punters

Yeah, true that!
So how come they still need a chequered flag, or a white one either for that matter?

And on the start/finish line the transponder is only read as it crosses the line. Heaven help the marshall on point 7 (or any other point) that needs to call in a bike for what ever reason.eg "There's a bike dumping oil out here, its a blue one"

Marshalls need to read numbers, that's who! The reasons are numerous and have all been stated quite clearly, it's not rocket science.

Tony.OK

21st July 2011, 09:40

So something like .................. 243258

Just put 'em where ya can to help out? Would cost fek all. I think making a size rule for those could be tricky given the vastly differing bike shapes.

Shaun

21st July 2011, 09:43

Yeah, true that!
So how come they still need a chequered flag, or a white one either for that matter?

And on the start/finish line the transponder is only read as it crosses the line. Heaven help the marshall on point 7 (or any other point) that needs to call in a bike for what ever reason.eg "There's a bike dumping oil out here, its a blue one"

Marshalls need to read numbers, that's who! The reasons are numerous and have all been stated quite clearly, it's not rocket science.

It is NOT rocket science NO, but you clearly have a problem with understanding why I ask why it is required as there is NO problems else where, the ACTUALL TRUE problem is the club is so stretched to do what they do for us, ( AND THANKS TO ALL) that they had to STOP DOING SCRUITINEERING which HAS allowed this PROBLEM to grow for the last 3=5 years

ONE NUMBER BOARD ON THE FRONT

ONE NUMBER BOARD ON THE SEAT

WORKS in the rest of the world, So Now PLEASE explain the rocket science to that with out making this PERSONNEL

http://www.roadracingworld.com/magazine/current-issue/ THERES YA FRONT BOARD AND AS THEY SHOULD BE FOR THE MARSHALLS AND THE FANS

yungatart

21st July 2011, 09:46

It is NOT rocket science NO, but you clearly have a problem with understanding why I ask why it is required as there is NO problems else where, the ACTUALL TRUE problem is the club is so stretched to do what they do for us, ( AND THANKS TO ALL) that they had to STOP DOING SCRUITINEERING which HAS allowed this PROBLEM to grow for the last 3=5 years

ONE NUMBER BOARD ON THE FRONT

ONE NUMBER BOARD ON THE SEAT

WORKS in the rest of the world, So Now PLEASE explain the rocket science to that with out making this PERSONNEL

:facepalm: I give up...
Its too hard...maybe I'll just give up marshalling as well...

Shaun

21st July 2011, 09:53

:facepalm: I give up...
Its too hard...maybe I'll just give up marshalling as well...

O DEAR maybe you should then if you react this way to a discussion on the internet.

Please make sure you blaim me then for trying to discuss this issue with you on the INTERNET though

Tony.OK

21st July 2011, 10:03

nodrog

21st July 2011, 10:10

Shaun

21st July 2011, 10:15

yungatart

21st July 2011, 10:21

Fixed it for ya

Marshalls, NO MORE MASTURBATION and Compulsory Carrot eating for a week prior :(

Bit early to have ya bottle open man haha

So how does it work in the other countries around the world that use this system then?

Marshalls are NOT police man

Mate, every one seems to have forgotten that ALL bikes use TRANSPONDERS NOW, who the fuk neads numbers for what apart from the programme and the punters

O DEAR maybe you should then if you react this way to a discussion on the internet.

Please make sure you blaim me then for trying to discuss this issue with you on the INTERNET though

Discuss this? Yeah right. Read through some of your contributions to the discussion again. I have quoted some so you don't even need to go looking.

140mm high.
No overlap.
Visible at a 20 metre ride-by.
Stewards call final.

Pretty simple - all riders at Actrix Winter Series Round 3 should know it - I read it out. Use the screen if the fairing isn't big enough.
The simple thing is it must be able to be read by the flag points as you approach them from as far away as possible.

As I said, it is not rocket science.

Shaun

21st July 2011, 11:07

RobGassit

21st July 2011, 11:46

Oh no he didn't! :facepalm: On behalf of men everywhere I apologise for that last post..:innocent:

Ronin

21st July 2011, 12:24

You obviously have as much problem with the english langauge add a thing called a "Sence of Humour" and must be having a bad day or hanging onto or releasing some thing today

Carry on Driver and have a good day:sunny:

Arrogant much?

Spend as much time standing out in the rain marshalling your sport as 'tart has and then get back to us on the merits of race numbers.

MSTRS

21st July 2011, 17:32

I don't really understand why Shaun, or any other racer for that matter, should have a problem with what is a MNZ rule. The fact is that for a long time no-one has said much about race numbers, and 'liberties' have been increasingly taken with size/style etc. And now it's got to the point where eyes cannot identify some bikes by number.
Racing is a team effort...and the team includes the marshals.
Help us to help you.
Simple.

RobGassit

21st July 2011, 17:56

What ever happened to that great idea of having number fins on the riders helmets?

Skunk

22nd July 2011, 11:25

And right here is why I don't use KB much.

First I'd like to thank those that have argued with and dissed the very people that put the work in to give you a race meeting. Awesome.

Race number rules are in the rule book. Read it. Do it. It's been abused - get back on track. No excuses. Make your bike fit the rules. Very simple. What YOU have to do to achieve that is not a flaggies concern.

There is no reason for ANY discussion. Rules are rules. Turn up with unclear numbers and you can go home. Blame those that pushed it as far as they did. Blaming organises and everyone else is not helping ANYTHING.

Over and Out.

Tony.OK

22nd July 2011, 11:50

All other classes the following apply:
Number Boards
Size: Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm, oval or
rectangular in shape.
Placement: 3 number boards to be affixed or placed upon the motorcycle,
in colours required for the class as follows:
Front: Facing forwards, with not more than 30 degrees forwards from
vertical.
Sides: One either side of the motorcycle in a position clearly visible
when the rider (and passenger for sidecars) is seated in their
usual riding position.

In a place on separate boards, a space of equivalent size and shape can be on
the bodywork or streamlining.

Wrong Rule mate.............thats for all classes other than road racing.

140mm high.
No overlap.
Visible at a 20 metre ride-by.
Stewards call final.

Pretty simple - all riders at Actrix Winter Series Round 3 should know it - I read it out. Use the screen if the fairing isn't big enough.
The simple thing is it must be able to be read by the flag points as you approach them from as far away as possible.

Race number rules are in the rule book.

The correct road racing rules:

ROAD RACING

Appendix’s A, C, G and I the following rules apply:
Number Boards
Size: Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm, oval or
rectangular in shape.

Placement: Fairing, front of fairing one number board facing forward.
Numbers may also be placed on both sides of the fairing
Rear Tailpiece; minimum of one number on rear seat tailpiece.

Figures all classes:
Figures must be clearly legible and both numbers and
backgrounds must be in a non-gloss finish
A plain form of figure shall be used.

Not being picky but maybe to clarify it all the club either has their own supp rules on the website so no disputes can be had or follows MNZ rules which basically are fairly crap.
Is the steward from MNZ? If so then can he/she enforce a rule that is not an MNZ rule?
Just looking at it from all angles, not trying to be awkward. I think MNZ needs to have it defined as it used to be. No arguements to be had then.:yes:

MSTRS

22nd July 2011, 13:42

Wrong Rule mate.............thats for all classes other than road racing.

The .pdf rule book is not easy to follow (or download) but my quote from it was correct in that it was for bikes other than motocross/offroad...
The road-race only bikes have the proviso that only one number needs to be on the tailpiece. MNZ do not appear to have considered marshal's requirements wit that rule. There are also appendices which do not seem to be available online. I have no idea what they might say.

Is the steward from MNZ? If so then can he/she enforce a rule that is not an MNZ rule?

There is always an MNZ rep at racing. Complaints about poor adherence to the number rules had him checking each bike at Round 3. He does not apply rules that are not within MNZ's balliwick.

Just looking at it from all angles, not trying to be awkward. I think MNZ needs to have it defined as it used to be. No arguements to be had then.:yes:
The rules ARE defined. They are just not always easy to find...

Skunk is right. We marshals don't enforce the rules. MNZ and/or the organising club does.
But the fact remains that if marshals cannot readily identify any particular bike because of number issues, and racers going all prima donna about how no-one can make them change their bike etc, those marshals may just get to the frustrated point of saying fuck it and not turning up. Hands up, all those that want to keep pushing until that happens...

Look - it's really simple. There are rules about almost everything and the onus is on the rider/team to ensure their bike complies. Strangely enough, the vast majority of racers can and do comply. It is very few who are not doing this, but race officials have had enough.
Just because scrutineering doesn't happen anymore (at least at VMCC events) because of legal issues around liability, that is no excuse for fielding an unsafe or non-compliant bike.

We can go around in circles, arguing our different corners. But on race day there will be no argument. If the organisers or MNZ aren't happy with a bike, it will not be going on the track until the issue is fixed.

Deano

22nd July 2011, 14:53

Do I get a chokky fish ? :scooter:

Biggles08

22nd July 2011, 14:54

Skunk is right. We marshals don't enforce the rules. MNZ and/or the organising club does.
But the fact remains that if marshals cannot readily identify any particular bike because of number issues, and racers going all prima donna about how no-one can make them change their bike etc, those marshals may just get to the frustrated point of saying fuck it and not turning up. Hands up, all those that want to keep pushing until that happens...

Look - it's really simple. There are rules about almost everything and the onus is on the rider/team to ensure their bike complies. Strangely enough, the vast majority of racers can and do comply. It is very few who are not doing this, but race officials have had enough.
Just because scrutineering doesn't happen anymore (at least at VMCC events) because of legal issues around liability, that is no excuse for fielding an unsafe or non-compliant bike.

We can go around in circles, arguing our different corners. But on race day there will be no argument. If the organisers or MNZ aren't happy with a bike, it will not be going on the track until the issue is fixed.

I haven't read this whole thread as to me it seems pretty bloody simple...make your numbers as large and clear as possible.

I reckon my numbers are not 'legal' in the sense of the MNZ dimensions, but I ensure my numbers are as large as they can be for my bike (and in the correct colour). If someone told me off for not having clear enough numbers (as they tried once at a AMCC meeting ages ago - more to that story though :facepalm:) I would tell them they possibly should go see an optometrist about that.

Any racer that can't understand what you have just posted here MSTRS are nit picking and they should F$#k off.

Biggles08

22nd July 2011, 14:57

Do I get a chokky fish ? :scooter:

No cause I'm confused...are you number 46 or number 180?????:innocent:

Deano

22nd July 2011, 15:11

No cause I'm confused...are you number 46 or number 180?????:innocent:

Ah feck - back to the drawing board.:facepalm:

MSTRS

22nd July 2011, 15:49

Do I get a chokky fish ? :scooter:

Perhaps that explains why you were never given the white or chequered flags first at Manfeild....:facepalm:

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:00

Do I get a chokky fish ? :scooter:

Nope. You are supposed to have Black Numbers on an Orange back ground, being a production based bike.

Deano

22nd July 2011, 16:04

Nope. You are supposed to have Black Numbers on an Orange back ground, being a production based bike.

You're missing the point I think.

The other numbers on my bike I believe already meet the MNZ rules.

The orange ones on the sides are purely for the marshals benefit (and MC etc), not to meet any rules.

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:05

So something like .................. 243258

Just put 'em where ya can to help out? Would cost fek all. I think making a size rule for those could be tricky given the vastly differing bike shapes.

Yeah, all good apart from you have managed to photoshop on figures 60mm high and 8mm wide.... and missed out the orange back ground.
See my problem? The 250 is awfully small! The only number that fits in the regulations is the one on the tail piece, and that is bloody enormous compared to the rest of the bike... as in it takes up the WHOLE tail piece.

As for cost, yeah, it is only paint...... and TIME.
Why paint? The vinyl is bloody hard to apply over all the contours... Not impossible, and not my job, but bloody tricky.

Deano

22nd July 2011, 16:05

Perhaps that explains why you were never given the white or chequered flags first at Manfeild....:facepalm:

I don't think anyone reeeeaaaaally thought that it was Rossi out there on my SV.

Or are you saying that I eat too many chokky fish ?

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:13

You're missing the point I think.

The other numbers on my bike I believe already meet the MNZ rules.

The orange ones on the sides are purely for the marshals benefit (and MC etc), not to meet any rules.

Well, then are we arguing about the MNZ rules, or simply what the marshals want.
Yes, I do understand that bike Identification is important. I used to be one of the volunteers. Can't say I ever had an issue, but then it didn't matter in my roll on the paddock.

My point is I believe my bike fits in the rules better than many, yet I still get grief.
There is also the fact it is actually fowl of the rules in one aspect, but not that one would notice unless they got a tape measure out.... and actually checked the finish of the "numbers". Then almost every bike in the paddoch fails, as who makes Matt Black stickers? Or Matt Coloured Vinyl for number boards?
By their very nature they are Gloss!

Deano

22nd July 2011, 16:27

Well, then are we arguing about the MNZ rules, or simply what the marshals want.
Yes, I do understand that bike Identification is important. I used to be one of the volunteers. Can't say I ever had an issue, but then it didn't matter in my roll on the paddock.

My point is I believe my bike fits in the rules better than many, yet I still get grief.
There is also the fact it is actually fowl of the rules in one aspect, but not that one would notice unless they got a tape measure out.... and actually checked the finish of the "numbers". Then almost every bike in the paddoch fails, as who makes Matt Black stickers? Or Matt Coloured Vinyl for number boards?
By their very nature they are Gloss!

Well your bike has the front number on one side (like mine) - I only have 1 number across the tail piece and never had any official concerns raised. (Jellywrestler said the rear one was hopeless, but legal.) The numbers are also big enough to meet the rules, but admittedly, not as visible as they could be. TBH the numbers probably don't have enough gap between them.

So I put the orange numbers on the side fairings as well. It was just before the last round of the Nats so I was pretty keen to make sure I was as identifiable as possible.

I reckon you should just throw some numbers on as per Tony Ok's pic. Even orange ones would be very visible.

MSTRS

22nd July 2011, 16:33

I don't think anyone reeeeaaaaally thought that it was Rossi out there on my SV.

Or are you saying that I eat too many chokky fish ?
Nah mate. Your front number is on the right side, not the middle, so the Start/Finish guys at a clockwise track can't ID you on your way to a win...

Well, then are we arguing about the MNZ rules, or simply what the marshals want.

It's you guys that are arguing. We marshals just want to be able to see your numbers easily...which is what the MNZ number rule is designed to achieve.

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:36

Well your bike has the front number on one side (like mine) - I only have 1 number across the tail piece and never had any official concerns raised. (Jellywrestler said the rear one was hopeless, but legal.) The numbers are also big enough to meet the rules, but admittedly, not as visible as they could be. TBH the numbers probably don't have enough gap between them.

So I put the orange numbers on the side fairings as well. It was just before the last round of the Nats so I was pretty keen to make sure I was as identifiable as possible.

I reckon you should just throw some numbers on as per Tony Ok's pic. Even orange ones would be very visible.

Don't get me wrong Deano, I agree with you.
It was a little P/T that I mentioned your numbers were "inverted".

I fully agree there is more reasons to be identifyable, hence why we have gone for a pretty distinctive paint scheme, and custom made leathers.

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:37

...which is what the MNZ number rule is designed to achieve.
Ah-ha, between us all, we have proven the rule isn't designed very well then ;)

MSTRS

22nd July 2011, 16:41

Ah-ha, between us all, we have proven the rule isn't designed very well then ;)

If you are talking about the allowable single number on the (top of) tailpiece...then I agree.

Deano

22nd July 2011, 16:45

Nah mate. Your front number is on the right side, not the middle, so the Start/Finish guys at a clockwise track can't ID you on your way to a win...

LOL - depends which side of the track they are on but.... (Hampton Downs ?)

Come on John - Even at Manfeild they can see my front number easy as at 20m+ AND it's legal.

Pro twin champ 2011 Johhny Small had exactly the same.

I wave the flags on the start finish line for MottoTT bro so I have some experience also. I've never had an issue with numbers on the RHS.

[/QUOTE]

It's you guys that are arguing. We marshals just want to be able to see your numbers easily...which is what the MNZ number rule is designed to achieve.

I'm not arguing - trying to be constructive actually mate. I've gone over and above the legal requirments to make my bike visible by putting extra numbers on.

My numbers are already legal in terms of positioning, colours and number size. So, in your opinion the rule is not achieving what it should ?

quickbuck

22nd July 2011, 16:46

If you are talking about the allowable single number on the (top of) tailpiece...then I agree.

I'm glad you do.
Still, as I said, if I went to two numbers, they will be miniscule.

Now, would the marshels be happy if I had 42 stuck to the side of my helmet?
The numbers I can get on there are bigger than the ones Tony.Ok painted on for me.

Tony.OK

22nd July 2011, 23:34

I'm glad you do.
Still, as I said, if I went to two numbers, they will be miniscule.

Now, would the marshels be happy if I had 42 stuck to the side of my helmet?
The numbers I can get on there are biggee than the ones Tony.Ok painted on for me.
My pic was meant to just be an example to help with identifying and not as a rule. Obviously people are too sensitive and defensive to ideas, I think mnz should just reinstate the previous rules allowing for newer bikes. Then no one has any excuse or reason to complain........simple.
My posts were meant as ideas, not to raise hackles............I will refrain now as im not even in the scene anymore.

Shaun

23rd July 2011, 07:10

Oh no he didn't! :facepalm: On behalf of men everywhere I apologise for that last post..:innocent:

But but but, whos gunna apologise for the women every where Rob

Shaun

23rd July 2011, 07:22

Robgasit Yungatart READ MY POST #110 quoted below

Put it in the sub regs, bring Back SCRUITINEERING ( For other safety reasons also) and send any one back if they do not comply, simple

What where when was I argueing of causng trouble, or being ARROGANT ( According to some WANKER ice cream vender)

Engrish is engrish, and there is Nothing offensive non constructive in any of my post in this thread, ( Missed humour yes---- SEARCH MY THANKS AND PRAISE TO THE MARSHALLS WORLDWIDE) also folks, remember this is just the Internet, if you are going to have an opinion about some one/me, at least the balls to have your say face to face Please girls, very cowardly typing under a no name and being abbusive/insulting ( I had a HEAD INJURY HAHA) Whats your excuse

RobGassit

23rd July 2011, 10:06

But but but, whos gunna apologise for the women every where Rob

I was trying to save you from a lynching after you referred to the sacred monthly sequence who's name no man can mention.

Shaun

23rd July 2011, 10:27

I was trying to save you from a lynching after you referred to the sacred monthly sequence who's name no man can mention.

I Like Lynching----s, that;s why I come here and post stuff, must have some fun in life

yungatart

23rd July 2011, 10:41

Robgasit Yungatart READ MY POST #110 quoted below

What where when was I argueing of causng trouble, or being ARROGANT ( According to some WANKER ice cream vender)

Engrish is engrish, and there is Nothing offensive non constructive in any of my post in this thread, ( Missed humour yes---- SEARCH MY THANKS AND PRAISE TO THE MARSHALLS WORLDWIDE) also folks, remember this is just the Internet, if you are going to have an opinion about some one/me, at least the balls to have your say face to face Please girls, very cowardly typing under a no name and being abbusive/insulting ( I had a HEAD INJURY HAHA) Whats your excuse

Next time you are at a Vic or Pacific club event pop over to the start/finish line and I'll tell you in person what I think. I am not a coward.
And for the record, a head injury does not excuse you poor behaviour in my book.

Shaun

23rd July 2011, 10:49

Next time you are at a Vic or Pacific club event pop over to the start/finish line and I'll tell you in person what I think. I am not a coward.
And for the record, a head injury does not excuse you poor behaviour in my book.

I actually said " Had a head injury" I was wonderig what your exscuse was? and by this and your last reply, that shows you are NOT reading and UNDERSTANDING my ENGRISH

Anyway, wanking on and arguing with a Marshall on a public forum is NOT and has NEVER been my style, So I'm gone from this thread

Have a fantastic day:sunny:

quickbuck

24th July 2011, 12:51

My pic was meant to just be an example to help with identifying and not as a rule. Obviously people are too sensitive and defensive to ideas, I think mnz should just reinstate the previous rules allowing for newer bikes. Then no one has any excuse or reason to complain........simple.
My posts were meant as ideas, not to raise hackles............I will refrain now as im not even in the scene anymore.
Tony,
I wasn't trying to offend... Sheesh, seems this is a very touchy subject, and people are getting (or have got) very emotional over it all.
Yes, I have too, as I know how much work it involves to implement a "suggestion". It is more than pulling the roll of duct tape out of the tool box.

What I meant by the last bit, is I think that peole miss the point that the actual area available to put the numbers is quite a bit smaller than the MNZ rules require, nothing more, nothing less. You do have a good idea on where to put them, I agree, and it is a good thing to have your bike as identifyable as possible, as it is the punters in the stands and the pits that you are actually pitching the sponsership to.

Skunk

24th July 2011, 13:38

I agree, and it is a good thing to have your bike as identifiable as possible, as it is the punters in the stands and the pits that you are actually pitching the sponsorship to.If the flag marshall can't read it how can anyone in the stands read it? Remember that the sponsors are listed in the programme with your name and race number. That's the place the spectators find out who is backing you. (Does sponsorship work? I don't know... as an example how many of you have googled 'Alice' after it first appeared on the GP bikes? Just a rhetorical question - I honestly don't know.)

Anyway - enough of this. The rule I quoted is what's coming. The current rule says 'legible'. Vic Club is saying some are not and to fix it. The End.
The Steward can send you home without refund if you don't meet HIS/HER interpretation of the term 'legible'. Vic Club does not want this happening; nor do the flag marshals. We are not volunteering our time to piss you off or see you go home. It's not an 'us' vs 'you' situation. This started as a request to make it better before you missed racing.

Shaun: the word 'scrutineering' is 'banned'. It should never be used as the legal meaning is unenforceable at a race meeting. Machine Check is what we do. And to give more race time we do it by wandering the pits. Safety is our key interest at Club Level.

quickbuck

24th July 2011, 14:36

If the flag marshall can't read it how can anyone in the stands read it? Remember that the sponsors are listed in the programme with your name and race number. That's the place the spectators find out who is backing you. (Does sponsorship work? I don't know... as an example how many of you have googled 'Alice' after it first appeared on the GP bikes? Just a rhetorical question - I honestly don't know.)

Actually, I have had no problems myself of people not being able to read my number, apart from a few who stand on the Start Finish line.

As i said, a mate managed to take a photo on the front straight, and got all of the front number in the shot!

does it work?
Well, since getting the bike painted in the Air Force Livery, I have fielded plenty of questions about the Air Force from fellow riders, and people walking the pits.
None have joined, but some have considered it as a career option for their children.... and after all, that was the goal.

MSTRS

24th July 2011, 16:04

Who gives a toss where/how big sponsor's logos are? They are able to be seen up close and at one's leisure.
When a bike is out on the track, the NUMBERS are the important part.
The rules say one at the front, centred. Personally I don't care - if a front fairing design makes this difficult, then by all means have it off to the side BUT please...put one on both sides at the front!!
As for one number only on the tail piece...that's a crock and the rule needs to change. There needs to be one on EACH side of a bike.

Deano

24th July 2011, 17:59

The rules say one at the front, centred.

As for one number only on the tail piece...that's a crock and the rule needs to change. There needs to be one on EACH side of a bike.

They don't say they have to be centred John and several National Champs have had the number on one side facing forward.

In any case, if the rules aren't meeting marshals needs then how about discussing this with MNZ ?

I'll likely centre my number as a result of this thread, but when it is due for a paint. I've gone over and above the legal requirements and didn't expect to hear your 'one sided argument' (of the fairing) LOL. Peace out.

MSTRS

25th July 2011, 07:52

Hey - don't get me wrong. As a marshal I appreciate any and all efforts made to made numbers clear and easy to pick up. Mostly, we don't have any trouble with he off centre front numbers, but some bikes do have a very sharp nose which makes those ones hard to see when on the opposite side to the S/F cage. If the front number truly cannot be in the middle, then one on each side is best.

slowpoke

25th July 2011, 11:07

The rules say one at the front, centred. Personally I don't care - if a front fairing design makes this difficult, then by all means have it off to the side BUT please...put one on both sides at the front!!
As for one number only on the tail piece...that's a crock and the rule needs to change. There needs to be one on EACH side of a bike.

I think people tend to struggle with the front number positioning because the screen intrudes on the space available. But check out some of the WSBK bikes, they just paint/decal straight over the lower part of the screen: job done.

As for the arse end, that's a tough one. Consider say an '08 on CBR1000RR and it's gonna be tough to fit 2 x 150mm numbers on there, and even if you could, both of 'em would be pointing at the sky which isn't a lot of help. There are some better options (bottom corner of fairing as per BSB) but they just need to be made "legal".

Haha, I can't believe this has rolled on for 14 pages.....

wharfy

25th July 2011, 15:46

I think people tend to struggle with the front number positioning because the screen intrudes on the space available. But check out some of the WSBK bikes, they just paint/decal straight over the lower part of the screen: job done.

As for the arse end, that's a tough one. Consider say an '08 on CBR1000RR and it's gonna be tough to fit 2 x 150mm numbers on there, and even if you could, both of 'em would be pointing at the sky which isn't a lot of help. There are some better options (bottom corner of fairing as per BSB) but they just need to be made "legal".

Haha, I can't believe this has rolled on for 14 pages.....

The screen is a handy place, paint the inside the correct background colour and stick some appropriate coloured numbers purchased from you friendly local bike shop - they are "matt finish" vinyl. easy to read (well at the modest speeds I attain ) and come in packs of 3 of each number - pretty cheap :)

243485

MSTRS

25th July 2011, 16:55

They don't say they have to be centred John and several National Champs have had the number on one side facing forward.

My mistake...maybe. It is ambiguous.

Placement: Fairing, front of fairing one number board facing forward.
Numbers may also be placed on both sides of the fairing
Rear Tailpiece; minimum of one number on rear seat tailpiece.

Haha, I can't believe this has rolled on for 14 pages.....
Who'da thunk it?

Ivan

25th July 2011, 17:45

Just to rub salt in wounds I raced Motox meeting in weekend National event and there was all kinds of numbers designs etc didnt affect any marshells the winner was still easily picked. And after a hard day you get caked in mud numbers dissaper they still can pick the winner and give him correct flag,

I believe this thread is alot of bitching over something that is now the 21st century and we have transponders a quick call to the man in charge can say ok leader is entering sweeper now its not hard to pick out.

sorry but the 8 months i have been out of road racing it has gone bitchier and bitchier go motox!!!

FROSTY

25th July 2011, 18:53

well whatever happens I'd suggest it happes before we time warp back and everyone has to fit the nummber boards like we had in the old 250 broddie days -big ol chunks of 3 ply

jellywrestler

25th July 2011, 18:54

Just to rub salt in wounds I raced Motox meeting in weekend National event
Motocross are all in the same boat, shit all over them but they still seem to have some sort of common standard.
It's a different beast in road racing and it comes down to safety and recognition. Safety is obvious , recognition is something that varies a common standard is what is needed.
Simply put, as you are from Featherston- the Gore of the North island, people at the race track want to see whose out there.
Be it cause they're interested in someone they know, or they want to keep up with whose who via the commentary, and to maintain an interest in whats going on.
We're just trying to tighten things up here and make the whole game more professional.

Ivan

25th July 2011, 20:12

i fully understand that what im saying is this is becoming a bitch fest at who can moan the loudest

MSTRS

26th July 2011, 07:48

I believe this thread is a lot of bitching over something that is now the 21st century and we have transponders a quick call to the man in charge can say ok leader is entering sweeper now its not hard to pick out.

You must have missed the post/s that negate the transponder argument.
To save you thinking about it, I'll explain (again). Transponders are only good for telling the race order AFTER the Start/Finish line...when it's too late to put out the appropriate flag.
As for 'a quick call to the man in charge...' - those who work the radios know that doesn't always work, either.

I'm sorry if my tone is a little belligerent...but I make no apology for insisting improvement/s in the way bikes are numbered.

Ivan

26th July 2011, 12:19

I used to be involved in the committee so i know what goes on, also I am a fire fighter I know about radio use so please I may be young but im not stupid,

CHOPPA

26th July 2011, 19:18

i fully understand that what im saying is this is becoming a bitch fest at who can moan the loudest

Obviously you were not a member of the now abandoned holeshot forum???

RobGassit

27th July 2011, 08:20

Please,please,please, KILL THIS PHAARKIN THREAD ALREADY!!!!

MSTRS

27th July 2011, 08:57

If the message that numbers need to be easily seen/read by each and every marshal trackside has got through...then by all means.

Shaun

27th July 2011, 09:27

Please,please,please, KILL THIS PHAARKIN THREAD ALREADY!!!!

WHY, it is great reading that a piss up cannot be organised in a brewery, well done ONE man.

AH there I go again just trying to get my POST rate up so I am a hero with nothing positive or logical to say, O well, back to my meds as it is " TO EARLY TO OPEN A BEER"

MSTRS

27th July 2011, 09:46

Back away from the P pipe, Shaun. Don't you know that stuff can give you brain damage.

Shaun

27th July 2011, 12:17

Back away from the P pipe, Shaun. Don't you know that stuff can give you brain damage.

Test me for Drugs any time you like buddy, BIPOLAR PILLS ONLY and LARGER

crazzed

14th August 2011, 11:37

So now MNZ have changed the rules MSTRS have offered free new numbers to all affected by this. Changing all our three digits number boards to two digits aswell.
:done:

yungatart

14th August 2011, 12:24

So now MNZ have changed the rules MSTRS have offered free new numbers to all affected by this. Changing all our three digits number boards to two digits aswell.
:done:

Nah, not free...but you can have them at a reasonable price. The great service you get when you deal with Mstrs is free though!

Clivoris

14th August 2011, 13:13

Nah, not free...but you can have them at a reasonable price. The great service you get when you deal with Mstrs is free though!

I've never been serviced by better.

crazzed

14th August 2011, 13:30

I've never been serviced by better.

Not the point. MNZ have stated two digit race numbers as regulation.
Your staff have stated preiously that they will enforce MNZ number regs do you think it is fair to dis allow me to race due to having a three digit race number???244599
Can you honestly say that you cant read my F#$KN race number as it has three digits

Clivoris

14th August 2011, 13:34

Not the point. MNZ have stated two digit race numbers as regulation.
Your staff have stated preiously that they will enforce MNZ number regs do you think it is fair to dis allow me to race due to having a three digit race number???244599
Can you honestly say that you cant read my F#$KN race number as it has three digits

WTF? Are you taking the piss or have I just walked into some kind of personal attack here?

crazzed

14th August 2011, 13:37

WTF? Are you taking the piss or have I just walked into some kind of personal attack here?

Read the MNZ reg changes for race numbers TWO digits only so all of us with three digits arent in compliance with the new regs. Just pissed and it was one of your staff that started all this happening. I just did a search and found this thread and thought its worth dragging up.Thought MSTRS would offer free number changing as she was the insergator.

Clivoris

14th August 2011, 13:49

Read the MNZ reg changes for race numbers TWO digits only so all of us with three digits arent in compliance with the new regs. Just pissed and it was one of your staff that started all this happening. I just did a search and found this thread and thought its worth dragging up.Thought MSTRS would offer free number changing as she was the insergator.

Choice story bro. I have sweet FA to do with the issues raised in this thread. Get your facts right. None of these people are my staff. Take your pissed offedness out on someone else please. All I did was post a light-hearted but serious comment about how far MSTRS has gone in the past to help me with race numbers and end up feeling like I must have kicked you in the nuts.

MSTRS

14th August 2011, 13:49

Read the MNZ reg changes for race numbers TWO digits only so all of us with three digits arent in compliance with the new regs. Just pissed and it was one of your staff that started all this happening. I just did a search and found this thread and thought its worth dragging up.Thought MSTRS would offer free number changing as she was the insergator.

Fuck off. And I'm a HE.
If you read the regs properly, you will see the 2 digit rule is for Nationals only.
And as for 'staff' disallowing bikes to race...where did that come from?

I didn't start this as anything other than a moan about how hard it is for marshals and other trackside wallahs to read the numbers on some bikes. It has nothing to do with trying to get some 'work' free or otherwise.

crazzed

14th August 2011, 14:01

Choice story bro. I have sweet FA to do with the issues raised in this thread. Get your facts right. None of these people are my staff. Take your pissed offedness out on someone else please. All I did was post a light-hearted but serious comment about how far MSTRS has gone in the past to help me with race numbers and end up feeling like I must have kicked you in the nuts.

wasnt directed at you clive sorry just venting frustration on th whole subject but i believe the vic club could of enforced the rules better rather than get them changed.

crazzed

14th August 2011, 14:17

I agree that returning to number boards is probably not a goer. Frame designs these days are not remotely friendly to extra attachments.
But as for riders telling race officials to 'bugger off'...who's in charge?
As one rider was told "We can run a race meeting without you. Can you run one without us?"

Fuck off. And I'm a HE.
If you read the regs properly, you will see the 2 digit rule is for Nationals only.
And as for 'staff' disallowing bikes to race...where did that come from?

I didn't start this as anything other than a moan about how hard it is for marshals and other trackside wallahs to read the numbers on some bikes. It has nothing to do with trying to get some 'work' free or otherwise.

look at your first quote we can run a race .........

And dont you think the clubs could of enforced this better before it got to this.
Two dogits just for national rounds. But every entry form states running to mnz rules which includes the national rounds doesnt it. Were is the clear line drawn here. I can agree with sticking to the rules but the clubs really need to enforce it not bleet about it and try to get it changed as they cant enforce it or be bothered enforcing.

MSTRS

14th August 2011, 15:22

MSTRS

14th August 2011, 15:25

wasnt directed at you clive sorry just venting frustration on th whole subject but i believe the vic club could of enforced the rules better rather than get them changed.

Actually, this needs to be addressed...
It is my belief that MNZ were looking at the number issue, amongst other things, before this raised it's ugly head at a club meet. And I will absolutely guarantee that a bitch thread on KB had nought to do with it, either.

crazzed

14th August 2011, 15:30

A club official would probably still have to refer a matter of number legality to the MNZ rep on the day. My quote was of a race official reacting to a rider's attitude to something that rider had been spoken to about.
Hear what you say about the 'run to MNZ rules' though. And it's a fair point. It's not up to me (I'm 'just' a marshal) but I suspect that having 3 digits won't be a problem at VMCC or PMCC meets. Just as long as those numbers are clear, as yours are.

The real gutting part of all this is they can change rules around when they like/need to. No problem there. Why cant they change it to allow 3 digit numbers as long as they comply with the sizing regulations. They need rigid and clear rules and this one for National being differrant from local club racing is wrong. Keep it accross the board so its simple and clear as most clubs want to run to MNZ rules/regs.

Tony.OK

14th August 2011, 15:49

The real gutting part of all this is they can change rules around when they like/need to. No problem there. Why cant they change it to allow 3 digit numbers as long as they comply with the sizing regulations. They need rigid and clear rules and this one for National being differrant from local club racing is wrong. Keep it accross the board so its simple and clear as most clubs want to run to MNZ rules/regs.

Nothing has changed yet................its a proposal, go look again and you'll see that submissions can be made by email to Peter R re any objections etc.
As long as your #'s are clear I'm sure clubs won't worry. And Paeroa and Wanga's etc aren't Nat events so can't see any hassles there either.
:calm:

crazzed

14th August 2011, 15:55

Nothing has changed yet................its a proposal, go look again and you'll see that submissions can be made by email to Peter R re any objections etc.
As long as your #'s are clear I'm sure clubs won't worry. And Paeroa and Wanga's etc aren't Nat events so can't see any hassles there either.
:calm:

Already been in contact wuth peter and it will go through as it is not interested in anychanges. I cant see the issue with having a common rule for local and national events. How would you feel if your number was given out to jo blogs for the national rounds you did not attend??? Wouldnt it be simpler to allow 3 digits at national levels aswell.

Biggles08

14th August 2011, 16:41

Why cant they change it to allow 3 digit numbers as long as they comply with the sizing regulations. They need rigid and clear rules and this one for National being different from local club racing is wrong. Keep it across the board so its simple and clear as most clubs want to run to MNZ rules/regs.

got to agree with this.

Skunk

15th August 2011, 07:55

Dear Crazzed,

Time to fix a few of your strange facts:

Vic Club DID NOT change the rules, nor ask for the rules to be changed. FACT.

Riders 'took the piss' with their race numbers and Vic Club started asking the riders (at Vic Club events) to sort it out. FACT.

MNZ took it on themselves (as they can and often do) to CLARIFY the number rules. FACT.

Three digits are fine if you're not doing Nationals. FACT.

Not every racer does Nationals - why tie them to two digits? Why do Nationals riders need more than two, there's only a few of you in each class?

The actual rules have changed very little. Nationals have always been two digits AFAIK.

Can we get back to the racing yet?