I agree with Alasdair Thompson

[aprilia_RS250]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10734009


Tend to agree with this guy because at my work, women generally leave work a lot earlier, take longer lunches, tend to take more holiday leave and they do tend to take more sick leave too. Don't get me wrong, there are 2 or three that work as hard but a large majority is out the door once clock strikes 5.

What you fullas think?

[Paul in NZ]

I think that in a democracy you are free to express any opinion you want as long as it does not criticise or in anyway diminish women, jewish folks or people of colour...

plus maybe baby seals

[James Deuce]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10734009


Tend to agree with this guy because at my work, women generally leave work a lot earlier, take longer lunches, tend to take more holiday leave and they do tend to take more sick leave too. Don't get me wrong, there are 2 or three that work as hard but a large majority is out the door once clock strikes 5.

What you fullas think?

I think that what you're describing is a society that doesn't encourage men to take parenting seriously, instead relying on predefined gender roles to dictate who gets to walk in the door after work and put their feet up and who sacrifices career aspirations to make sure the kids are looked after.

[Banditbandit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10734009


Tend to agree with this guy because at my work, women generally leave work a lot earlier, take longer lunches, tend to take more holiday leave and they do tend to take more sick leave too. Don't get me wrong, there are 2 or three that work as hard but a large majority is out the door once clock strikes 5.

What you fullas think?

I think you are wrong .. and I think Alisdair Thompson is full of shit ...

[bogan]

What you fullas think?

I think surely the fullettes (sorry hitcher) deserve a say too!

[spajohn]

I think the reporting on that article is a great example of the shite quality of journalism out there. Trying to see past the dramatic headline the guy does say that the facts prove that this is the case...however does that mean they should get paid less? Isn't that what leave (including sick leave) is for?

And +1 to the posters re gender roles for parenting...narrow view indeed, and although there may be more females that take this role in our household it is simply that I earn more. If there was better pay parity....

[Str8 Jacket]

I get paid to work 40 hours per week while doing the job of 3 people. I also get paid about 15% less than the guy who sits next to me DOING THE SAME JOB.

So, I work 6.30-3, I refuse, simply refuse to work longer than that UNLESS it effects a project directly then I will work late. BUT I will go home early the next day.

When I get home from work I do the housework, washing, preperation for dinner, put out the rubbish, feed the cat then cook, then clean up after dinner. If I had children I would be doing 10x as much - as soon as I get home from my paid job. But that's OK cause Joe Bloggs in next cubicle works the same hours as me, uses me to help him out with recommendations etc cause he's to lazy to learn how to multi task and gets paid more.

[Scuba_Steve]

They never fully specify what they mean??? I know most of these "women get paid less" is because women tend to work lower paid jobs so when all avg out yes they do get "paid less". But if this is about same job, same position, same work then they should get same pay but to be honest I don't know of any place that doesn't do that already, does anyone???

[James Deuce]

They never fully specify what they mean??? I know most of these "women get paid less" is because women tend to work lower paid jobs so when all avg out yes they do get "paid less". But if this is about same job, same position, same work then they should get same pay but to be honest I don't know of any place that doesn't do that already, does anyone???

Yes. Many examples where I work over the last 10 years where women have left the private sector for public sector roles and equivalent wages to male co-workers. One woman doing the same job as me was earning 30% less than me. People forget that in the private sector there is NO guarantee that you are being paid a like wage or salary for a job that is comparable to other people in your team. Apparently it is up to the employee to set expectations. So that will skew results for private sector survey results as well as the gender issue.

You'll note in the document below that the public sector pays women slightly less than the private sector.

The wage gap is literally that. Women get paid less for doing the same job.

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEkQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mwa.govt.nz%2Fnews-and-pubs%2Fpublications%2Ftowards-pay-equity-backgroud.doc&rct=j&q=Comparative%20Wages%20Male%20and%20Female%20NZ&ei=V6ECTvf8L8borQfinqiGAw&usg=AFQjCNH6DLF6xCdAiVmFjzp1LAi3-3OLBA&sig2=dxq3UCAbAsXru_TjaOedug&cad=rja

[oneofsix]

Yes. Many examples where I work over the last 10 years where women have left the private sector for public sector roles and equivalent wages to male co-workers. One woman doing the same job as me was earning 30% less than me. People forget that in the private sector there is NO guarantee that you are being paid a like wage or salary for a job that is comparable to other people in your team. Apparently it is up to the employee to set expectations. So that will skew results for private sector survey results as well as the gender issue.

You'll note in the document below that the public sector pays women slightly less than the private sector.

The wage gap is literally that. Women get paid less for doing the same job.

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEkQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mwa.govt.nz%2Fnews-and-pubs%2Fpublications%2Ftowards-pay-equity-backgroud.doc&rct=j&q=Comparative%20Wages%20Male%20and%20Female%20NZ&ei=V6ECTvf8L8borQfinqiGAw&usg=AFQjCNH6DLF6xCdAiVmFjzp1LAi3-3OLBA&sig2=dxq3UCAbAsXru_TjaOedug&cad=rja

Bring back unions and collectives with wage scales then the employer doesn't get to play games with how much they pay for the same job.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes. Many examples where I work over the last 10 years where women have left the private sector for public sector roles and equivalent wages to male co-workers. One woman doing the same job as me was earning 30% less than me. People forget that in the private sector there is NO guarantee that you are being paid a like wage or salary for a job that is comparable to other people in your team. Apparently it is up to the employee to set expectations. So that will skew results for private sector survey results as well as the gender issue.

You'll note in the document below that the public sector pays women slightly less than the private sector.

The wage gap is literally that. Women get paid less for doing the same job.

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEkQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mwa.govt.nz%2Fnews-and-pubs%2Fpublications%2Ftowards-pay-equity-backgroud.doc&rct=j&q=Comparative%20Wages%20Male%20and%20Female%20NZ&ei=V6ECTvf8L8borQfinqiGAw&usg=AFQjCNH6DLF6xCdAiVmFjzp1LAi3-3OLBA&sig2=dxq3UCAbAsXru_TjaOedug&cad=rja

Alot of that went on about what I mentioned, women are just in lower paid jobs so of course they're "avg pay" will be lower it's stupid to think it wouldn't be. But the comparable job thing I can kinda see.
I haven't been round many work places but the ones I have & do know about if the guy & chick are in the same position they're getting paid the same (relatively speaking) I find it surprising there are places where they're not.

[Str8 Jacket]

I haven't been round many work places but the ones I have & do know about if the guy & chick are in the same position they're getting paid the same (relatively speaking) I find it surprising there are places where they're not.

Mate, there are many instances like this happening everywhere!

[Scuba_Steve]

Mate, there are many instances like this happening everywhere!

hey I'm sure they're are I have just never encountered them in any of the jobs I've worked for, nor any I know about.

[jasonu]

I think the reporting on that article is a great example of the shite quality of journalism out there. Trying to see past the dramatic headline the guy does say that the facts prove that this is the case...however does that mean they should get paid less? Isn't that what leave (including sick leave) is for?

And +1 to the posters re gender roles for parenting...narrow view indeed, and although there may be more females that take this role in our household it is simply that I earn more. If there was better pay parity....

Yep shitty reporting. 4 out of the 5 MP quotes were from female MP's. Lopsided reporting in my opinion.

[mashman]

it's business. Not personal.

Don't complain about it, just take 2 Evening Primrose Oil pills, and I'll see you next week...



I think that what you're describing is a society that doesn't encourage men to take parenting seriously, instead relying on predefined gender roles to dictate who gets to walk in the door after work and put their feet up and who sacrifices career aspirations to make sure the kids are looked after.

Oh... I wish it were as easy as that :)... I'd switch in a heartbeat.

[meteor]

hey I'm sure they're are I have just never encountered them in any of the jobs I've worked for, nor any I know about.

Totally agree, I've never seen a job where two people who are similarly qualified, similar roles, similar hours and have the same longevity of service don't get similar pay. The reporting never says what the sample variables are which skew the results. But if they did, it wouldn't be a good story would it!

Actually what I've noticed is that a lot of positions are filled with people whom the organisation wants so it represents the societal demographic... women, dark skin, whatever, certainly the best person for the job is not always the wone that gets it... what a naive sole to think the world is fair and just.

[ac3_snow]

I'm a firm believer of workplace equality, thats why I let the woman work more so they can earn the same as the men!
..........

[Str8 Jacket]

Totally agree, I've never seen a job where two people who are similarly qualified, similar roles, similar hours and have the same longevity of service don't get similar pay. The reporting never says what the sample variables are which skew the results. But if they did, it wouldn't be a good story would it!

Well now you both have..... I work in Procurement which has always been quite 'male-driven' times have changed now.


. what a naive sole to think the world is fair and just.

EXACTLY - Which is why I am looking for another job....

[ducatilover]

I'm off to women's refuge to get a job.




Interesting topic though. I have yet to see an example of it myself, but, it doesn't surprise me at all.

[Scuba_Steve]

EXACTLY - Which is why I am looking for another job....

well if you want a female controlled industry, and a HEAVY bias to the chick there's always pornographic movies. In that industry the male gets shit all compared to the chick in both pay & control. If I remember right (in USD) the chick starts at $2k/movie and can progress upto $24k/movie for the big stars whereas guys start $400/movie and max out at $1.2k/movie for the big stars with most maxing out at $800/movie and all-the-while the chick pretty much has complete control too.

[Grubber]

I think the reporting on that article is a great example of the shite quality of journalism out there. Trying to see past the dramatic headline the guy does say that the facts prove that this is the case...however does that mean they should get paid less? Isn't that what leave (including sick leave) is for?

And +1 to the posters re gender roles for parenting...narrow view indeed, and although there may be more females that take this role in our household it is simply that I earn more. If there was better pay parity....

It appears that in the same job with same qualifications they actually get paid the same.
As for stay at home with the kids bit, i know of 3 friends that the male stays at home with the kids while mum works. Her pay was so high it was the obvious solution. All seem to really enjoy it too.
I myself did 4 years at home with my kids when i was self employed and i would have to say it was the best time of my life ever.:2thumbsup

[jaffaonajappa]

Bwahahahaaa, funny. I think the EMA is about to look for a new Boss....this guy has done a Paul Henry to himself :)

It doesnt really matter what the guy believes....voicing that opinion is the same as him promoting tat opinion....and as the EMA Boss, thats wayyyy out of line.

[Str8 Jacket]

well if you want a female controlled industry, and a HEAVY bias to the chick there's always pornographic movies. In that industry the male gets shit all compared to the chick in both pay & control. If I remember right (in USD) the chick starts at $2k/movie and can progress upto $24k/movie for the big stars whereas guys start $400/movie and max out at $1.2k/movie for the big stars with most maxing out at $800/movie and all-the-while the chick pretty much has complete control too.

Awesome! Sounds like just what I am looking for! :D

[jaffaonajappa]

Awesome! Sounds like just what I am looking for! :D

Auditions close Sunday...

[Indiana_Jones]

I think that in a democracy you are free to express any opinion you want as long as it does not criticise or in anyway diminish women, jewish folks or people of colour...

plus maybe baby seals

As I've said many a time before,

'You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it!'

-Indy

[short-circuit]

Amusing coverage on 3 news - what an absolute tit

[oldrider]

Freedom of choice, freedom of speech all in tact, he chose, he spoke, right or wrong, he takes the consequence of "his" action!

Did he expect the women's wanker brigade to applaud him? FFS! IMHO his bad judgement call! :mellow:

[MadDuck]

Amusing coverage on 3 news - what an absolute tit

Good summation!

Women tend to not apply for or get accepted for the higher paying roles. That skews the average. What a silly little man for suggesting its because women bleed once a month and breed....:lol:

[onearmedbandit]

He was simply relaying what had been reported to him by employers throughout NZ, no doubt both male and female employers.

I don't believe women should be paid a lower hourly rate or salary for any job they are employed for. However, and I don't give a fuck if I upset anyone by saying this, but I've worked with women who have taken 1-2 days off every month because of their period, just because they 'don't feel like coming in', and I've also worked with women who will jump at the chance to leave work early or not come in because they have to pick up their children or look after them. Most blokes I've worked with are quite happy for someone else to pick them up. Of course there are exceptions, but women (in my experience) seem to have the stronger bond to their offspring then men and so therefore feel that only they can take care of them, not an aunty/uncle/neighbour/grandparent.

So yes I believe what the employers of NZ have said, that women do take more time off as a general rule. Would I have said it if I was him on the radio? Not if I wanted to keep my job lol.

[short-circuit]

Good summation!

Women tend to not apply for or get accepted for the higher paying roles. That skews the average. What a silly little man for suggesting its because women bleed once a month and breed....:lol:

He was even funnier on Campbell Live seemingly - perhaps more a knob end this time (?)

The short version is good:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Alasdair-Thompson-and-the-monthly-sickness/tabid/367/articleID/216240/Default.aspx


The long version is possibly worse:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Alasdair-Thompson---full-interview-with-Campbell-Live/tabid/367/articleID/216251/Default.aspx

[trustme]

My daughter [24] came home fuming. I sat her down to listen to the whole interview, some of you should do the same, you might moderate your opinions as the reporting is extremely biased & self serving. Like they say never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

When I listened to the interview this morning, I knew he was painting himself into a corner, the argument has some validity but he made an absolute balls of it.

[ellipsis]

...bit of modern thinking and conceptualism of societal events are actually taking place in a horse before the cart type of scenario....when we all, globally, embrace the fact that we are all equal and the world is a planet that is run by a benevolent council of wise elders and we were at one with the universe, all this shit would be relevant......but when the shit hits the fan and the levy breaks and its all hands to the pumps, or its do or die, or theres big, big shit happening , its usually very normal BLOKES who are out there fixing shit or killing fucks or dieing so it all keeps working....its just the way it is and the way its been....in the natural order of things it seems in the homo sapiens order of things, the bloke and his mates jumped on things and killed them,,,the girls cooked the thing and as they probably had some water and a cave and it was all as good as it could get...unless some big fucking animal killed you or you fell in the raging river, etc...we have advanced our technologies to the point where we are at this , fucked up, point know.....but the societal bit has lagged somewhat...it seems to tarry around some point that existed a good few thousands of years back....i wonder why....hmmmmmmm....../

[jazfender]

This paragraph formed my opinion of the man:

"Thompson stormed off in mid-interview twice during the programme, taking offense to the reporter's questions about his comments. He also refused to provide documentation of his claims that women's menstruation is affecting their productivity."

[superman]

American study in 08 says women take 50% more short term sick leave than their male counterparts.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080204212846.htm

Who knows, who cares. It would be like complaining about women receiving maternity leave and men not getting equal opportunity when a child is born. "Equality" is not really a possibility, both sides will always find inequality due to the simple point of differences.

[jaffaonajappa]

This paragraph formed my opinion of the man:

"Thompson stormed off in mid-interview twice during the programme, taking offense to the reporter's questions about his comments. He also refused to provide documentation of his claims that women's menstruation is affecting their productivity."

Sounds like HE was the one suffering from some kind of regular issue..... :P

[Scouse]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10734009


Tend to agree with this guy because at my work, women generally leave work a lot earlier, take longer lunches, tend to take more holiday leave and they do tend to take more sick leave too. Don't get me wrong, there are 2 or three that work as hard but a large majority is out the door once clock strikes 5.

What you fullas think?Then you are just as big of a tit as he is

[trustme]

For those with an attention span longer than a knat

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/audio/23095556.mp3

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/audio/23104557.mp3

[short-circuit]

For those with an attention span longer than a knat

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/audio/23095556.mp3

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/audio/23104557.mp3

I posted a 30 minute interview with Mihingarangi Forbes - he made a cunt of himself from start to finish. He is incompetent. Maybe his brain bleeds once a month? Next.

[aprilia_RS250]

Then you are just as big of a tit as he is

I am tit because i know women in my office work less than men?

[Str8 Jacket]

I am tit because i know women in my office work less than men?

That makes YOU the stupid one, duh!

[oneofsix]

That makes YOU the stupid one, duh!

awl goodie the claws are out :girlfight:

[imdying]

That makes YOU the stupid one, duh!Oh really....


I get paid to work 40 hours per week while doing the job of 3 people. I also get paid about 15% less than the guy who sits next to me DOING THE SAME JOB.Seems like you're the stupid one.

[Str8 Jacket]

Oh really....

Seems like you're the stupid one.

I only just found out what he was being paid (literally yesterday) and I am looking for a new job as per my post.

I trust you're working on those reading skills though, eh.

[imdying]

I only just found out what he was being paidUnder paid and ignorant. GG :nya:

[Str8 Jacket]

Under paid and ignorant. GG :nya:

Better than being an ignorant cock such as yourself though.

[imdying]

Better than being an ignorant cock such as yourself though.Oh I don't know, being well paid and knowing it has advantages that out weight that :laugh:

[Gone Burger]

Must admit this interview got my back up too.

When I was living back in Auckland, I would often work 90 hour weeks, and even cracked 120 hours a week two weeks in a row.

I my last job in Wellington I got paid for 40 hour week, and it never fell shy on 52 hours. There was just work that needed to be done, and I made sure it got done. I was there for 5 yearsand was on the lowest pay as I was the only female. The monkey we had assisting in the workshop got higher pay than myself, and was never there.

After 5 years, I had the full 20 days sick leave owing to me, as I rarely took a dayoff sick. I was in a position where I simply couldn't just up and leave for a day and would only do so if I was at risk of getting everyone in my workplace sick.

I lost my job after my accident and am now on the hunt for a new one. This time I'll be focussing on never working for a bunch of dick heads like that again, who throw chairs at you in the office, and shove you if you say good morning to them. Bring it on - that interview was a joke.

[Scuba_Steve]

Must admit this interview got my back up too.

When I was living back in Auckland, I would often work 90 hour weeks, and even cracked 120 hours a week two weeks in a row.

I my last job in Wellington I got paid for 40 hour week, and it never fell shy on 52 hours. There was just work that needed to be done, and I made sure it got done. I was there for 5 yearsand was on the lowest pay as I was the only female. The monkey we had assisting in the workshop got higher pay than myself, and was never there.

After 5 years, I had the full 20 days sick leave owing to me, as I rarely took a dayoff sick. I was in a position where I simply couldn't just up and leave for a day and would only do so if I was at risk of getting everyone in my workplace sick.

I lost my job after my accident and am now on the hunt for a new one. This time I'll be focussing on never working for a bunch of dick heads like that again, who throw chairs at you in the office, and shove you if you say good morning to them. Bring it on - that interview was a joke.

why da hell do you people work so much??? & for free (I'm assuming?). that to me is :weird:.
If I aint getting paid I aint working simple!, It aint my company.

[Gone Burger]

why da hell do you people work so much??? & for free (I'm assuming?). that to me is :weird:.
If I aint getting paid I aint working simple!, It aint my company.

Because I have so much pride in my work, and know I am not of a skill level where I can demand more money successfully. I am realistic there. But the industry I have been in for 10 years simply demands big hours, and when I was freelancing you had to take all of the work when it was there. Thats when I was doing those huge hours.

The rest of the time, I work hard for what I get paid, and make sure all of my work is done, and done well. Sometimes that means putting in the time for free. If it means I am better at my job then I do it.

[oneofsix]

Because I have so much pride in my work, and know I am not of a skill level where I can demand more money successfully. I am realistic there. But the industry I have been in for 10 years simply demands big hours, and when I was freelancing you had to take all of the work when it was there. Thats when I was doing those huge hours.

The rest of the time, I work hard for what I get paid, and make sure all of my work is done, and done well. Sometimes that means putting in the time for free. If it means I am better at my job then I do it.

This is liable to be a bit out of the box for most but I wonder if this is part of why Aussie earn more than Kiwis and men more than woman. The employer has to pay them for the work, they will not do it for free, the Aussies because they still have powerful unions, men because they tend to take a longer view of being at work (its a life sentence).

[Clockwork]

What bothers me about this whole issue is that once again, rather than debate the content or merit of the opinion modern society seems rather to want to condemn the person for expressing it in the first place.

Whether you like it or not the issues that he has raised will at least affect some businesses perceptions of women's productivity and in some case those perceptions will be borne out.

I agree that at an individual level this is often hideously unfair but isn't it somewhat like the way Insurance companies will discriminate against policy holder's based upon their perception of a statistical group. (ACC anyone?)

I accept that statistically women are paid less than men but is there also not laws to ensure wage discrimination based upon gender is illegal, once you take that out of the equation the remaining differences must surely be environmental and based upon work history or just petty cronyism.

Incidentally, I have reason to believe that I too am paid less than some of my colleagues and I'm probably paid more than others but since I'm a male I can't assume its gender discrimination, I guess I'll just have to look for other reasons.

[oneofsix]

What bothers me about this whole issue is that once again, rather than debate the content or merit of the opinion modern society seems rather to want to condemn the person for expressing it in the first place.

Whether you like it or not the issues that he has raised will at least affect some businesses perceptions of women's productivity and in some case those perceptions will be borne out.

I agree that at an individual level this is often hideously unfair but isn't it somewhat like the way Insurance companies will discriminate against policy holder's based upon their perception of a statistical group. (ACC anyone?)

I accept that statistically women are paid less than men but is there also not laws to ensure wage discrimination based upon gender is illegal, once you take that out of the equation the remaining differences must surely be environmental and based upon work history or just petty cronyism.

Incidentally, I have reason to believe that I too am paid less than some of my colleagues and I'm probably paid more than others but since I'm a male I can't assume its gender discrimination, I guess I'll just have to look for other reasons.

I think you meant to say there ARE also laws to ensure wage discrimination based upon gender is illegal. There are. Do they work? According to the woman who have responded, no. Why not? here I think you have made a good point or two.

[Str8 Jacket]

Oh I don't know, being well paid and knowing it has advantages that out weight that :laugh:

OK, you win! :rolleyes:

[imdying]

OK, you win! :rolleyes:I already knew that... and if you weren't so grumpy from being on your rag you would've too :banana:

[Str8 Jacket]

Because I have so much pride in my work, and know I am not of a skill level where I can demand more money successfully. I am realistic there.

I hear ya - I was in the same position but now that I have some experience I aint putting up with that crap anymore!

[Str8 Jacket]

I already knew that... and if you weren't so grumpy from being on your rag you would've too :banana:

Buggar - if I'd known I would've taken the day off work!

[imdying]

Hey why not! They're docking your wages for it apparently so you might as well get your moneys worth!

[rachprice]

Being one of these women that 'just takes a day off at that time of the month' I would challenge any of you dudes not to if you experienced what I and many other women do

I would happily get them to cut my dam uterus out but they won't let me

I have to take 2 naproxen 2 paracetamol at the very start of any pain sometimes that doesn't do shit so I take a tramadol which will take the edge off but often I'm still incapacitated on my couch

I don't claim to be the toughest person in the world but I'm no softie either and have a relatively high pain threshold

I did not chose to be a women or have this, unfortunately endometriosis runs in the family and surgery has proven to have little effect

I can understand people getting mad but for some people it is a very genuine reason, though I'm sure there are plenty that milk it

[Indiana_Jones]

What bothers me about this whole issue is that once again, rather than debate the content or merit of the opinion modern society seems rather to want to condemn the person for expressing it in the first place.



This is the issue that bothers me too.

Imagine if someone got sacked for being a national or labour fan. For having an opinion. The media would be screaming blue murder....

But when someone makes a point of view about women, maoris or dole takers then all of a sudden it's 'My lord you can't have an opinion there! how dare you! resign at once for fucking speaking your mind....'

Ok so he reckons women take more leave cause they're on the rag or need to look after their sick kids. I know our secretary was away on Tuesday to look after her sick child....

-Indy

[rustyrobot]

This is the issue that bothers me too.

Imagine if someone got sacked for being a national or labour fan. For having an opinion. The media would be screaming blue murder....

But when someone makes a point of view about women, maoris or dole takers then all of a sudden it's 'My lord you can't have an opinion there! how dare you! resign at once for fucking speaking your mind....'

Ok so he reckons women take more leave cause they're on the rag or need to look after their sick kids. I know our secretary was away on Tuesday to look after her sick child....

-Indy

Wow her husband must be a selfish prick.

You are neglecting the context of his position. He would NOT be allowed to make a statement about his feelings on Labour or National in that position in an election year. He is the figurehead for the Employers Association and he speaks as such. His views are outdated and he needs to move on to sitting on his porch listening to golden oldies and moaning about the youth of today.

[Indiana_Jones]

Wow her husband must be a selfish prick.

You are neglecting the context of his position. He would NOT be allowed to make a statement about his feelings on Labour or National in that position in an election year. He is the figurehead for the Employers Association and he speaks as such. His views are outdated and he needs to move on to sitting on his porch listening to golden oldies and moaning about the youth of today.

That is true, he position does make things a bit different, but it is his opinion/view. He's not making policy based on this etc, he's just giving his thought on a matter.

-Indy

[Oscar]

What bothers me about this whole issue is that once again, rather than debate the content or merit of the opinion modern society seems rather to want to condemn the person for expressing it in the first place.

Whether you like it or not the issues that he has raised will at least affect some businesses perceptions of women's productivity and in some case those perceptions will be borne out.




How very true.‎
I don't support the way he said it, or some of the conclusions that he came to, but his ‎underlying premise is correct.‎

Female morbidity in the workforce is much worse than male morbidity, to the extent ‎that, before the age of sixty-five a woman is fifty percent more like to have a long ‎term disability (and these figures exclude childbirth). Women are typically rated fifty ‎percent higher for income protection insurance as a result (as opposed to life ‎insurance where they are typically rated as three years younger than a male).‎

‎(and to turn the argument on its head) This means that men are discriminated against ‎in terms of the number of days sick leave they take compared to women. That is, women are ‎more likely to have sick days, so in a situation where everything else is equal, they ‎use more of this part of their employment benefit and effectively get paid more. ‎

Whilst were dwelling on unpalatable social facts – both men and women who have ‎children are effectively paid more than those who don’t. To have benefits like ‎corporate child care, maternity/paternity leave and childcare tax breaks is effectively ‎offering a benefit to one part of society at the cost of the rest. Procreation has been a ‎lifestyle choice for a few generations now, so why are childless men and women ‎forced to subsidise those who breed?‎

[oneofsix]

....
Whilst were dwelling on unpalatable social facts – both men and women who have ‎children are effectively paid more than those who don’t. To have benefits like ‎corporate child care, maternity/paternity leave and childcare tax breaks is effectively ‎offering a benefit to one part of society at the cost of the rest. Procreation has been a ‎lifestyle choice for a few generations now, so why are childless men and women ‎forced to subsidise those who breed?‎

Because corporation want to continue into the next generation. Because more people procreate than don't. Because employees with kids are less likely to upset things and more likely to eat shit to retain employment. Because the long term benefits to the corporation out weigh the short term costs.

[avgas]

I get paid to work 40 hours per week while doing the job of 3 people. I also get paid about 15% less than the guy who sits next to me DOING THE SAME JOB.
Oi stop undercutting us guys and stealing jobs. Surely 1 job is enough for you - no need to steal another 2. Bloody thief.
:killingme

[avgas]

Being one of these women that 'just takes a day off at that time of the month' I would challenge any of you dudes not to if you experienced what I and many other women do
I accept your challenge and I will from now on take 12 sick days a year.

[rachprice]

I accept your challenge and I will from now on take 12 sick days a year.

If only I could give you my uterus, cunting fucking thing!!

Trust me you wouldn't want 50 sick days if it meant you got it!!

[Brett]

I imagine it would be similar to a kick in the balls that you have to endure for a few days. Doesn't exactly sound like a whole lot of fun to me...

[Scuba_Steve]

I imagine it would be similar to a kick in the balls that you have to endure for a few days. Doesn't exactly sound like a whole lot of fun to me...

well I'd hope it be worse than that, that wouldn't keep me from work. I wouldn't want it ever (let alone monthly) but it wouldn't stop me going to work nor would it start me popping pills

[mashman]

Said in the in the same vein as, War and Famine keeps the population down?... the total number of people that is :shifty:

[jaffaonajappa]

Let me get this straight.

People think women take time off as they have medical issues and are the primary caregivers to kids...so they should be paid less?

LOL.

Primary caregivers to our kids and workers too - pay them more I say. Their attitude seems better adjusted.

I supervise a large group of guys and gals daily. All on Equal pay....well actually, all on various paysclaes that have Nothing to do with their Sex or family status. Its fucking excellent....this topic would never ever even get a mention in my workplace.

And just as many guys take parental leave to look after kids as the girls do. But when the Flu comes around....the guys take time off, the girls save up their sick leave for when their kids are sick....and 'Man Flu' starts to get some meaning.

[blue rider]

wow, excusing discrimination based on a natural occurrence!

females often start 'bleeding' at 11 years and or younger, they often don't stop before they are well in their forties. so we are talking of 30 years of monthly menstruation lasting anything from 3 - 10 days depending on the female. the bleeding can be severe, i.e. pissing blood, or very mild, again depending on the female.
and then these females start "breeding" and gasp, they insist in looking after the child. (what was that thing about the welfare refom/thread?)

how dare they expect same pay for same work. and how dare they take a day of when they feel unwell.......and still expect same pay....

Kinder, Kueche, Kirche.....in the 21st century

[Mort]

yes they should be paid the same as men....


But..... ever go in to a busy bar/restaurant/cafe/shop staffed by several women ? And compare the situation to a bar staffed by men...? generally the women do anything but serve the customer and the men act as a team to get what is important done first.....

This hypothesis is completely annulled if the women are topless of course. (I don't frequent establishments where the male staff are topless so I cannot testify on that but I am sure Katman can)

[jaffaonajappa]

yes they should be paid the same as men....


But..... ever go in to a busy bar/restaurant/cafe/shop staffed by several women ? And compare the situation to a bar staffed by men...? generally the women do anything but serve the customer and the men act as a team to get what is important done first.....


Bwahahahah. Sorry mate....but this is Sooo OFF balance its just not funny. The biggest and best bars usually have male and female mixed bar staff. And the better bars...dont hire staff that are not efficient. Unless they are deliberately slowing down sales during a Happy hour etc.

And i could almost Guarantee I have had more exposure to different bars than...95% of anyone here.

[Indiana_Jones]

Let me get this straight.

People think women take time off as they have medical issues and are the primary caregivers to kids...so they should be paid less?


No one said pay them a rate less than a man. If that were the case I'd be against that, the pay rate should be and is based on skill, not sex. Hours put in on the other hand...

Are you suggesting women should get more sick days because they're on the rag? Sure, but only if men get the same, I mean it's only fair....

-Indy

[jazfender]

Sure, but only if men get the same, I mean it's only fair....

-Indy

It's not fair enough that we don't get the rag?

[jaffaonajappa]

No one said pay them a rate less than a man. If that were the case I'd be against that, the pay rate should be and is based on skill, not sex. Hours put in on the other hand...

Are you suggesting women should get more sick days because they're on the rag? Sure, but only if men get the same, I mean it's only fair....

-Indy


Hehehe. Ok, assuming you arent trolling.....
Yes. The crux of the argument, and the background to the new legislation, is based on Exactly that. Paying women the same per hour as men receive....
Whilst this is already a requirement of our laws (Human Rights Act - discrimination..), I understand the Stats are showing that 'for some reason' women are earning less (per hour etc).

The taking leave / sick leave / childcare leave can be treated seperately to a large extent, for a majority of jobs.

And yeah. Men should get leave too....if theyre on the rag and its Baaaaad.

[Hitcher]

What bothers me about this whole issue is that once again, rather than debate the content or merit of the opinion modern society seems rather to want to condemn the person for expressing it in the first place.

Whether you like it or not the issues that he has raised will at least affect some businesses perceptions of women's productivity and in some case those perceptions will be borne out.


What Alisdair Thompson said wasn't "factually correct". He has admitted that himself in what was supposed to be an apology for his stone age, misogynistic comments.

This man is supposed to be a 21st century industry leader, attuned to a group of people whose interests he is paid to advance. The Employers and Manufacturers Association isn't some sort of freemasons fraternity. Many of its members and employees of its members are women. They deserve better.

His lack of basic public relations skills should remove him from the shortlist for any senior management role. One wonders what attracted the board of the EMA to hire him in the first place. Arrogant pillocks only ever succeed when they are hired by other arrogant pillocks.

As well as significantly devaluing his own currency, Mr Thompson has also significantly diminished the credibility of the EMA -- it's a lobby group, for heaven's sake. His apology was too late and significantly weakened by his earlier lame attempts to defend his position.

If I was a member of the EMA, I would be asking hard questions about what value Mr Thompson adds to the role for which he is well paid to deliver. He clearly has attitude problems and lives in an alternate universe. If he had any self respect, he should resign. He doesn't and he won't. It remains to be seen as to whether his board sacks him.

[Ocean1]

I understand the Stats are showing that 'for some reason' women are earning less (per hour etc).

I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. If I took a decade out from my career I expect my mean hourly rate would suffer too.

[Indiana_Jones]

It's not fair enough that we don't get the rag?

Good call lol. But if you were to give women more leave then you're basing discriminating against men, as they're not getting the same.


Hehehe. Ok, assuming you arent trolling.....
Yes. The crux of the argument, and the background to the new legislation, is based on Exactly that. Paying women the same per hour as men receive....
Whilst this is already a requirement of our laws (Human Rights Act - discrimination..), I understand the Stats are showing that 'for some reason' women are earning less (per hour etc).

The taking leave / sick leave / childcare leave can be treated seperately to a large extent, for a majority of jobs.

And yeah. Men should get leave too....if theyre on the rag and its Baaaaad.

No troll and I couldn't agree more, women should be paid the same per hour/salary as men for the same job (provided of course they at the same skill level, vice versa)

-Indy

[mashman]

yes they should be paid the same as men....


But..... ever go in to a busy bar/restaurant/cafe/shop staffed by several women ? And compare the situation to a bar staffed by men...? generally the women do anything but serve the customer and the men act as a team to get what is important done first.....

This hypothesis is completely annulled if the women are topless of course. (I don't frequent establishments where the male staff are topless so I cannot testify on that but I am sure Katman can)

There are attitudes out there that would disagree.

probably miserable because their male counterparts were paid more than them :)

Liverpudlian myth? In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store.

[jazfender]

Good call lol. But if you were to give women more leave then you're basing discriminating against men, as they're not getting the same.

Nah. Disagree.

If men had a debilitating "sickness" as that idiot puts it and were not given the leave to accommodate it then yeah, it would be.

It's unjust to punish women for the cards they were dealt and to ignore the issues surrounding it.

[FJRider]

It's unjust to punish women for the cards they were dealt and to ignore the issues surrounding it.

So ... equal rights ... aren't equal then ... ???

[jaffaonajappa]

So ... equal rights ... aren't equal then ... ???

Upset that you get looked at funny if you ask a shop assistant if you can try on a Bra?
Equality -/- Equally. Different stuff for different things...

Anyway - wheres the chicks gone. They can jump in here...im tired of talking up for them. Some people just arent getting it.

[jazfender]

So ... equal rights ... aren't equal then ... ???

Of course they're not.

No sane person can tell me that a man and a woman are equal in all ways. There are similarities, there are differences but they are not the same. We're not even equal within our own genders!

"Equal rights" is the media's tag for it but essentially what we should be striving for is an understanding of everyone involved and meeting the demands of those people.

[jazfender]

Further to this, what is important is equal treatment.

Thus, a man should be given the capacity to share his issues or demands in the same way that a woman should.

Equality is understanding that there are differences and catering to them. Equality is not saying that one rule should apply to all.

[FJRider]

Upset that you get looked at funny if you ask a shop assistant if you can try on a Bra?
Equality -/- Equally. Different stuff for different things...



I've never asked ... so I didn't know ... but if you have ... I'll take your word for it ...

[rustyrobot]

A slightly obscure metaphor I have heard to illustrate 'equal rights' or 'equality' is that of disabled people and access to toilet facilities. To have equal access to the facilities, we need different things. There is a dude in a wheelchair at my work, to have the same ability to go to the toilet as me he needs a totally different facility (wider doors, handles, etc). We need different things to have an equal outcome. Equality is not sameness, it is about equal access and equal opportunity.

[Indiana_Jones]

Further to this, what is important is equal treatment.

Thus, a man should be given the capacity to share his issues or demands in the same way that a woman should.

Equality is understanding that there are differences and catering to them. Equality is not saying that one rule should apply to all.

Fair enough, you raise a valid point. Everyone has different issues from sex to health to religious beliefs.

Now what if an employer didn't want to hire someone as they'd have to cater to said 'issues', then they get told they can't do that. Hardly fair on the employer.

-Indy

[FJRider]

Of course they're not.

No sane person can tell me that a man and a woman are equal in all ways. There are similarities, there are differences but they are not the same. We're not even equal within our own genders!



So why is equal pay expected then ... ????

[jazfender]

Now what if an employer didn't want to hire someone as they'd have to cater to said 'issues', then they get told they can't do that. Hardly fair on the employer.

-Indy

I personally think that if there is a job listed that requires certain attributes to fulfil it, then the employer should be able to hire whoever the fuck he wants based on THAT criteria only.

No discrimination on sex, race, sexual orientation, just what is required to fulfil the role.

Therefore, if someone is unable to fulfil the requirements of the job due to said "issues", they should not get the job.

[blue rider]

I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. If I took a decade out from my career I expect my mean hourly rate would suffer too.

would you take a decade out from your career to raise your kids, to look after you family?

we still live in a world with defined gender roles, and for some reason instead of promoting women for raising children, being primary caregiver, managing the family, volunteering in schools n'stuff, and still being cheerful and pretty and such, society rewards them with
low pay, crap part time jobs, minimal career option, reduced unemployment benefits, reduced retirement benefits, welfare reform etc. etc. all based on such a silly statements as the one above.

as the chinese say: women hold up one half of the sky

as my mother said, no man was ever born by a man - and they just can't get over it.

[Indiana_Jones]

So why is equal pay expected then ... ????

This is it, I can understand getting the same pay rate per hour, but are people seriously suggesting that women get paid more for less hours?

-Indy

[jazfender]

So why is equal pay expected then ... ????

Because if two people are doing the same job, they should be paid the same regardless of who they are, what sex they are, who they fuck on weekends etc.

[Indiana_Jones]

Because if two people are doing the same job, they should be paid the same regardless of who they are, what sex they are, who they fuck on weekends etc.

So if Bob comes to work and Sally doesn't as she's having a bad period, they both get paid?

Assuming they had used there how many sick days you get, already

-Indy

[FJRider]

Because if two people are doing the same job, they should be paid the same regardless of who they are, what sex they are, who they fuck on weekends etc.

If they have the same qualifications, and ability ... to do the job they are employed to do ... yes ...

With equal amounts of holidays ...

With thje advent of the Employment act in force at the moment .. all parties have a "right" to negotiate their wage/time off prior to employment beginning ...

The conditions of which ... they (male or female) can accept ... or reject ...

[blue rider]

This is it, I can understand getting the same pay rate per hour, but are people seriously suggesting that women get paid more for less hours?

-Indy



the outrage is about the generalization of the statement made. . I.e. women have a monthly sickness (I MEAN REALLY?)..... IT IS NOT A disease, it is part of our genetic make up - unpleasant and sometimes painful, very painful even. We have children, its what a lot of us do and as far as I know men participate and even enjoy the making of little ones.

Are we as a society ok for wifes , ladyfriends, daughters and/or mothers to be short changed pay BECAUSE OF who she physically is....and what she can not change?

this just makes me sad :weep: and well :brick:

[Indiana_Jones]

the outrage is about the generalization of the statement made. . I.e. women have a monthly sickness (I MEAN REALLY?)..... IT IS NOT A disease, it is part of our genetic make up - unpleasant and sometimes painful, very painful even. We have children, its what a lot of us do and as far as I know men participate and even enjoy the making of little ones.

Are we as a society ok for wifes , ladyfriends, daughters and/or mothers to be short changed pay BECAUSE OF who she physically is....and what she can not change?

this just makes me sad :weep: and well :brick:

Well a spade is a spade.

The sky is blue, black people are black and women have periods.

I just think he chose his words poorly, I don't think he was suggesting it was a disease. More so he was trying to aviod using the word period or menstral cycle I reckon.

-Indy

[jaffaonajappa]

the outrage is about the generalization of the statement made. . I.e. women have a monthly sickness (I MEAN REALLY?)..... IT IS NOT A disease, it is part of our genetic make up - unpleasant and sometimes painful, very painful even. We have children, its what a lot of us do and as far as I know men participate and even enjoy the making of little ones.

Are we as a society ok for wifes , ladyfriends, daughters and/or mothers to be short changed pay BECAUSE OF who she physically is....and what she can not change?



I like this - you have put this message across in an interesting light. Maybe people will read it and think before they go round in circles?

Or maybe thats a dumb thought..

[blue rider]

Well a spade is a spade.

The sky is blue, black people are black and women have periods.

I just think he chose his words poorly, I don't think he was suggesting it was a disease. More so he was trying to aviod using the word period or menstral cycle I reckon.

-Indy

and when he does the naughty with the lady he turns of the lights.


the insult lies in the trying to be polite - polite to Whom?



It is called MENSTRUATION!

[Ocean1]

would you take a decade out from your career to raise your kids, to look after you family?

Yes.

And if/when I returned to the workforce I wouldn't expect my employer to pay me as if I hadn't missed that decade of experience.


we still live in a world with defined gender roles, and for some reason instead of promoting women for raising children, being primary caregiver, managing the family, volunteering in schools n'stuff, and still being cheerful and pretty and such, society rewards them with
low pay, crap part time jobs, minimal career option, reduced unemployment benefits, reduced retirement benefits, welfare reform etc. etc. all based on such a silly statements as the one above.

as the chinese say: women hold up one half of the sky

as my mother said, no man was ever born by a man - and they just can't get over it.

There's a reason the real world identifies certain roles with one gender or the other. We're good at different things. Or hadn't you noticed.

You might have also failed to notice that those women who chose a career over kids are rewarded for the most part with remuneration more closely aligned with their male contemporaries. Women who choose to have kids tend to claim their rewards are superior. Your choice, nobody else’s.

When you've developed a few ideas on which to base your own statements instead of parroting either your mother or a completely different culture you might have earned the credibility to have them taken seriously.

[rachprice]

So if Bob comes to work and Sally doesn't as she's having a bad period, they both get paid?

Assuming they had used there how many sick days you get, already

-Indy

I would accept taking days without pay if I had run out, though I don't get flu or much else so man flu vs my health + period wouldn't be so bad

[jaffaonajappa]

I've never asked ... so I didn't know ... but if you have ... I'll take your word for it ...

yeah sorry man. Didnt mean to have a personal Dig...just used a poor example.

But for what its worth - yeah, I once went to a bra shop and bought myself a bra. Convinced the chick that helped me (had to try it on, over the top of a tee shirt tho lol) to meet me at the local club that night too....and she was Hawt. :P
And yes, I wasnt the first single (straight!) guy to get a bra.

The local club has $2 drinks all night for guys that wore a bra....and hell it used to be fun. If ya couldnt pick-up in there - may as well join the priesthood.
Then the bar down the road had skirt nights....but thats a different story.

[jaffaonajappa]

When you've developed a few ideas on which to base your own statements instead of parroting either your mother or a completely different culture you might have earned the credibility to have them taken seriously.

wow.
Rag time.
okies....in my parents day, it was about 50/50, women staying at home and being the wife/mother/cook/cleaner. and 50% of men not earning enough for this luxury so the women have to work.

Nowadays, its like 80/20 or so yes? I know heaps of middle income families where the kids as young as 12 months old are being put in day care, or arrangements with extended family care, so the mum can race back to work. Usually to pay the bills and make ends meet.

After say 15 months out of work, and not talking about a cutting-edge top flight profession here, but middle class normal stuff. Shouldnt the woman be entitled to the same, or very very similar, pay to what she had been on before childbirth?

Lots of cases pointing out that this isnt occuring. Probably part of the reason for the new parental leave laws?

[Indiana_Jones]

and when he does the naughty with the lady he turns of the lights.


the insult lies in the trying to be polite - polite to Whom?



It is called MENSTRUATION!

Talking to the wrong guy there, I'd be calling it a cunt on air, hence why I'm not on the radio/TV lol :D

-Indy

[blue rider]

Yes.

And if/when I returned to the workforce I wouldn't expect my employer to pay me as if I hadn't missed that decade of experience.



There's a reason the real world identifies certain roles with one gender or the other. We're good at different things. Or hadn't you noticed.

You might have also failed to notice that those women who chose a career over kids are rewarded for the most part with remuneration more closely aligned with their male contemporaries. Women who choose to have kids tend to claim their rewards are superior. Your choice, nobody else’s.

When you've developed a few ideas on which to base your own statements instead of parroting either your mother or a completely different culture you might have earned the credibility to have them taken seriously.


You do not know me at all, yet you are below the line.
You are right in one thing I don't have kids, I don't bleed either, in fact i miss vital parts of the machinery necessary to incubate kids.

I never made that choice, nature did for me. But one thing is for sure, I am a women - and as such I believe I can comment on issues that affect females.

you however are only an engineer.

[Ocean1]

After say 15 months out of work, and not talking about a cutting-edge top flight profession here, but middle class normal stuff. Shouldnt the woman be entitled to the same, or very very similar, pay to what she had been on before childbirth?

Lots of cases pointing out that this isnt occuring. Probably part of the reason for the new parental leave laws?

Returning to the same position and employer I'd expect to attract the same rate. Unless the companies' structure had since fundamentaly changed. At 15 months you're more than likely talking a new employer, there's possibly little relativity to previous remuneration, I'd expect to have to negotiate accordingly.

[Indiana_Jones]

you however are only an engineer.

What's wrong with ginger beers? lol

-Indy

[jaffaonajappa]

Took how many thousands of years before women were able to vote as equals to men in an election?
How long till Apartheid was understood to be what it was? Legalised Hatred and Fear.
Once apon a century, babies with disabilities were abandoned.
Yeah, some countries are still trying to control the birth sexes. ie Indians generally prefer Boy babies than girls.
Holy Wars were declared on people that prayed to a different God. (we do this less often nowadays ok?)
Homosexuality was illegal at different times in many cultures.

Seems human kind has developed since the Good Ole Days. Yet we are ever reluctant to shake off the last of our old fashioned discriminations....the Gender one.

Funny shit really. And surprised none of the old school fellas have bought up Jessica Lynch yet...

[Ocean1]

Seems human kind has developed since the Good Ole Days. Yet we are ever reluctant to shake off the last of our old fashioned discriminations....the Gender one.

Discrimination based on sex isn't restricted to men. Nor is it restricted to any particular era, and I don't see any change on the horizon.

Women who demand equality in eveything fail to recognise that in many cases that's a step backwards for them.

[Indiana_Jones]

Discrimination based on sex isn't restricted to men. Nor is it restricted to any particular era, and I don't see any change on the horizon.

Women who demand equality in eveything fail to recognise that in many cases that's a step backwards for them.

Funny you say that.

They want things to be equal, yet if a man suggests going 'dutch' on a date they consider him cheap..... or they expect doors to be opened for them or the bog seat put down....

Can't have your cake and eat it...

-Indy

[trustme]

For those of you who clearly do indeed have an attention span shorter than a knat.
Unequal pay for the same work was never advocated in the interview. He was strongly pro equal pay for equal work based on productivity not gender. He added that 2 of the highest paid people he employed were women, they earned more because their productivity was higher & consequently there billing hours & revenue produced was higher.

This is a total beat up, he made a balls of the interview , no question of that. But many of the assertions made here bare no resemblance to the intent of what was actually said.

[Scuba_Steve]

Funny you say that.

They want things to be equal, yet if a man suggests going 'dutch' on a date they consider him cheap..... or they expect doors to be opened for them or the bog seat put down....

Can't have your cake and eat it...

-Indy

Yea "equal rights" as long as it's to their advantage :yes:.

[FJRider]

Unequal pay for the same work was never advocated in the interview. He was strongly pro equal pay for equal work based on productivity not gender. He added that 2 of the highest paid people he employed were women, they earned more because their productivity was higher & consequently there billing hours & revenue produced was higher.



Therein lies the crux of the "equal pay for both genders" debate ...

[jazfender]

So if Bob comes to work and Sally doesn't as she's having a bad period, they both get paid?

Sure.

As an isolated incident it doesn't seem fair but you gotta look at the whole picture with these things.

[imdying]

I never made that choice, nature did for me. But one thing is for sure, I am a womenYeah.... can't have kids? Not really a women then. Or maybe just not a useful one?

[jazfender]

Yeah.... can't have kids? Not really a women then. Or maybe just not a useful one?

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[PrincessBandit]

Funny you say that.

They want things to be equal, yet if a man suggests going 'dutch' on a date they consider him cheap..... or they expect doors to be opened for them or the bog seat put down....

Can't have your cake and eat it...

-Indy
Yup, self-absorbed and self-interest chasing members of both genders. I personally never had any problem with "paying my own way" (going Dutch as you say, as opposed to "payment for services rendered" type of thing); and I make a point of saying thank you to any man or woman, or student (male or female) who does something such as holding a door open for me etc.



Yea "equal rights" as long as it's to their advantage :yes:.

See first sentence in above post. these people come in both the male and female variety (and possible some others...iykwim ;) )


Oh, and for the record, my 19 y o son holds the door open for his gf, opens the car door for her etc., but he never does it for his dear old mum... :no:

[imdying]

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.We make a great team then. It's a bit like saying that gays can be parents... ahhh sorry sunshine, nature has ruled you the fuck out (and probably for a reason).

[Indiana_Jones]

Oh, and for the record, my 19 y o son holds the door open for his gf, opens the car door for her etc., but he never does it for his dear old mum... :no:

Ah but she's doing something else to time when they're alone in return lol

-Indy

[Mom]

Any idea how I can get involved with this action?

Bloody funny and could not happen to a nicer bloke.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10734481

Apparently his wife is ok, but his daughter is totally different!

FFS, this is his wife defending him by telling eveyone her daughter has bad periods? He has got to go, if that is his attitude, fucken appalling!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10734147


Last night, Mr Thompson's wife, Joan, stood by her husband of 40 years, saying he was "absolutely not sexist, not a dinosaur, he absolutely believes in equal pay for equal work".

Mrs Thompson said she had never taken sick leave for menstruation, but their daughter was "totally different".

Bet their daughter is well pleased with the pair of them :pinch:

[oldrider]

Ah but she's doing something else to time when they're alone in return lol

-Indy

Ah a man with a plan .... if you don't know where you are going, how do you know when you get there! Good on him, he will get there! :yes:

[Smifffy]

What scares me is the number of employers in the country for reasons of compliance and liability take a lot of advice and get training from the EMA, and this is the calibre of their leadership....

[jaffaonajappa]

What scares me is the number of employers in the country for reasons of compliance and liability take a lot of advice and get training from the EMA, and this is the calibre of their leadership....

"Was" the quality of their leadership. Hes replaced tomorrow...im sure.
Just wondering tho....would the Board get some fresh blood to replace him, or just another old stodgy crony?

Edit. Replaced on 'Monday'...im sure. (EMA Board summoned him already, to appear on Monday.)

[Scuba_Steve]

Yup, self-absorbed and self-interest chasing members of both genders.

See first sentence in above post. these people come in both the male and female variety (and possible some others...iykwim ;) )


yes, it was directed more at the groups/feminists (which really are no better than people are complaining about with this guy) not the individual

[Smifffy]

Fuck.

Why are the threads on this getting merged into this one with the retarded cryptic title? I posted to the thread Mom started because it had a snappy title that tied in well with the topic at hand. I wasn't even remotely interested in a thread title "I tend to agree with this guy"

For all I know it could have been another Ken Ring thread FFS.

[Hitcher]

Fuck.

Why are the threads on this getting merged into this one with the retarded cryptic title?

For all I know it could have been another Ken Ring thread FFS.

I've fixed the thread title for you.

[Smifffy]

I've fixed the thread title for you.

Thank you very much.

[Berries]

Edit. Replaced on 'Monday'...im sure. (EMA Board summoned him already, to appear on Monday.)
What's the money on his replacement being a bird ?

[Maha]

I hope Mr Thompson doesn't cotton on to my work ethics..I always leave work early, lunch break is 5-10 mins (if at all) and I never get sick....period!

[oldrider]

What's the money on his replacement being a bird ?

True!


I hope Mr Thompson doesn't cotton on to my work ethics..I always leave work early, lunch break is 5-10 mins (if at all) and I never get sick....period!

Work ethics? ..... check your wrist action, you might be turning gay! :banana: (Poor mom, she wont know which way to turn!)

[Usarka]

Strapon....

[aprilia_RS250]

I was having a discussion about this with my very intellectual flat mates on Saturday night, 3 girls (i know very lucky).

Conclusion of the night was old men are discriminating, assholes (especially old Mr Thompson) and need a good spank and once women take the throne of power, become CEO's, our employers (yes even while they're on maternity leave) we (us men) will be their slaves and at their disposal. So fullas, enjoy it while it lasts.

[jaffaonajappa]

I was having a discussion about this with my very intellectual flat mates on Saturday night, 3 girls (i know very lucky).

Conclusion of the night was old men are discriminating, assholes (especially old Mr Thompson) and need a good spank and once women take the throne of power, become CEO's, our employers (yes even while they're on maternity leave) we (us men) will be their slaves and at their disposal. So fullas, enjoy it while it lasts.

Thank god we will never have a female Chief Justice or Prime Minister.....oh wait.

[imdying]

once women take the throne of power, become CEO's, our employers (yes even while they're on maternity leave) we (us men) will be their slaves and at their disposal. So fullas, enjoy it while it lasts.Tell those silly bitches they're dreaming :killingme

Why? Cause I've no problem killing any of them to get my way, unlike them. And that's why they'll always fail against men... death is permanent.

[Pussy]

I'm getting stomach cramps reading all this.
I might have to have a few days off work.....

[jazfender]

And that's why they'll always fail against men... death is permanent.

that's deep bro, you been reading lately?

[superman]

Pop a nut pop a tit.

It's not sexual harassment, it's fair.

[jasonu]

I watched the full interview and in my view the reporter baited Mr Thompson and he took the bait. She harped on about the pms thing numerous times even after Mr Thompson has already answered the same or similar questions. It was no wonder he spat the dummy.
Reporters such as this are only looking for something controversial to put on the TV and couldn't care less about the actual story.

[PrincessBandit]

I'm getting stomach cramps reading all this.
I might have to have a few days off work.....

Can tell you from experience they're excruciating. Fortunately never suffered from them again after having the kids. In all seriousness I think its unfortunate that things like this that you have no control over (yeah, womanly thingies are often gross, painful and can be very debilitating) should impact on your ability to earn the same as a man doing the same job.
Most of the women I know just suck the lemon and get on with it, take pain killers and soldier on. Guys on the other hand get a few sniffles and.....well, we all know about the manflu don't we...

[oldrider]

Due to the higher male intelligence and therefore their higher sensitivity, men are of course hit harder by flues etc! :doctor:
(common knowledge in this day and age surely! Try to keep up woman.)

[scumdog]

I haven't been round many work places but the ones I have & do know about if the guy & chick are in the same position they're getting paid the same (relatively speaking) I find it surprising there are places where they're not.

Kinda sums up my experiences.

Having said that, how do people know about the pay-rates, do you openly discuss it?

Or what do the lower-pay-for-female outfits do - have two pay agreements, one for males and one for males?

Or a single agreement but with two columns, one headed male and the other female, outlining the pay rates and conditions for each?

[scumdog]

Because corporation want to continue into the next generation. Because more people procreate than don't. Because employees with kids are less likely to upset things and more likely to eat shit to retain employment. Because the long term benefits to the corporation out weigh the short term costs.

So in effect the non-breeders of both genders get the short end of the stick...sorta like the thing women complain about...

[nudemetalz]

I think that what you're describing is a society that doesn't encourage men to take parenting seriously, instead relying on predefined gender roles to dictate who gets to walk in the door after work and put their feet up and who sacrifices career aspirations to make sure the kids are looked after.

Well put, Jim.

[avgas]

you however are only an engineer.
I have pissed puddles that are deeper than you.

[jazfender]

241474

Ten characters.

[jaffaonajappa]

-pay-for-female outfits

This isnt a discussion about knockshops, or copshops.

[scumdog]

This isnt a discussion about knockshops, or copshops.


So feeling left out eh?:shifty:

[jaffaonajappa]

So feeling left out eh?:shifty:

Meh, you know fireies put on the best doos anyway. Even without the ring-ins :)

[The Lone Rider]

I've seen a Facebook page being passed around that states "CEO Alasdair Thompson on Campbell Live tonight (Thursday). He explained to Mihi Forbes that the gender pay equity gap it due to women having monthly sick problems."

Well actually women... he didnt say it WAS the reason. He used it as an example.


I'd hope in the same manner, it doesn't go on record that I sometimes don't make it to work because my bike won't start, rather than one of the reasons I sometimes don't make it to work is because my bike won't start.


Doesn't change the fact I also think Alasdair is a stuttering jackass, and with an ego not suited to his position.

[jazfender]

Well actually women... he didnt say it WAS the reason. He used it as an example.


Weakest argument evaaah.

[The Lone Rider]

Weakest argument evaaah.

Well if you want to be accurate about what was said during the PeriodGate interview... it's not an argument at all. It's fact.


I don't recall him saying women take more time off because of having a period.
However, he has listed that as a possible reason.

Then went on stuttering nonsense.


There is a big difference between saying the reason for something is because, and saying part of the reason for something is....

I'm not even sure he said part of the reason is; didn't he just suggest that as a possible reason?

[jazfender]

I don't recall him saying women take more time off because of having a period.
However, he has listed that as a possible reason.

So you're saying that he isn't stating it as fact, just throwing it out there.

My question to you is - so?

I don't really get why you think that should reduce the heat on this clown.

[The Lone Rider]

I don't really get why you think that should reduce the heat on this clown.

I dont think it should be reduced, increased or even exist. I don't really think I care enough about the matter beyond watching the various interviews, and thinking Facebook pages that keep showing up about it is kind of stupid (and thus this will also be my last post about it).

[Virago]

Lol - it's just been reported on the news that Alasdair Thompson is off on sick leave.

That time of month, Alasdair...? :facepalm:

[SPman]

Air New Zealand pull out of the EMA http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/5220792/Air-NZ-pulls-out-of-EMA-report

it's what happens when your association suddenly becomes toxic!

[short-circuit]

it's what happens when your association suddenly becomes toxic!

Eeeeew - toxic shock syndrome. Alasdair wouldn't dare.

[jazfender]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10736695

Later dickhead.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yes, how dare he have an opinion of his own!

Will they cunt up now and get back to being 'productive'?

-Indy

[Oscar]

Essentially he's getting the sack for telling the truth in an unacceptable way.:facepalm:

Pretty rich when you see liars profiting from their misdeeds.

[007XX]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10736695

Later dickhead.

*Forms up a conga line*:drinkup::woohoo::sunny::Punk::wings:

[Usarka]

*Forms up a conga line*:drinkup::woohoo::sunny::Punk::wings:

You on the rag?

:innocent:

[007XX]

You on the rag?

:innocent:

Te he... Not even au!

Actually, I'm just about to ovulate... would you like me to teach you about that instead? *sweet smile*

[jaffaonajappa]

Essentially he's getting the sack for telling the truth in an unacceptable way.:facepalm:

Pretty rich when you see liars profiting from their misdeeds.

Hes getting the sack for being a total tosspot. Failing to understand the people his association represents. And failing to wake up to the post 1970's. And doing so on Tape = unforgivable :)

[aprilia_RS250]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-358454/Period-pain-cripples-womens-careers.html

I'm a bit lost... Big mouth AT said women don't get paid as much because of periods.. Big huuu haaah everywhere. I do a search and this article pops up saying women are affected by period pains.... So did Alasdair get fired for telling the the truth???

[YellowDog]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-358454/Period-pain-cripples-womens-careers.html

I'm a bit lost... Big mouth AT said women don't get paid as much because of periods.. Big huuu haaah everywhere. I do a search and this article pops up saying women are affected by period pains.... So did Alasdair get fired for telling the the truth???

Some women do get affected by periods, some women don't.

Many male workers are seemingly a premenstral waste of space and they don't have periods to blame as the cause.

This guy got kicked out because of his inappropriate views regarding female workers.

Seems like a good ting to me :yes:

[Maha]

....they should have just made him join WIMA....:scooter:

[oldrider]

When the Christians claim the meek will inherit the world bet they didn't think they could ever get as meek as those cunts that sacked Thompson! :mellow:
(Sigh, friggen unbelievable BS!)

[jaffaonajappa]

When the Christians claim the meek will inherit the world bet they didn't think they could ever get as meek as those cunts that sacked Thompson! :mellow:
(Sigh, friggen unbelievable BS!)

You do realise they faced a dilemna yeah? Lose their clientele, or their CEO.
Air NZ Quit.....guess they decided their women deserved the same pay as their men.

/Sigh.

[eelracing]

You do realise they faced a dilemna yeah? Lose their clientele, or their CEO.
Air NZ Quit.....guess they decided their women deserved the same pay as their men.

/Sigh.

Well theres no need to get all menstrual about it ya poof.

[imdying]

You do realise they faced a dilemna yeah? Lose their clientele, or their CEO.
Air NZ Quit.....guess they decided their women deserved the same pay as their men.Interesting, for a company that doesn't think twice about hiring foreigners to lower their wage bill.

[Big Dave]

It was a stupid thing to say, from someone who obviously didn't understand the repercussions of saying it.

[oldrider]

It was a stupid thing to say, from someone who obviously didn't understand the repercussions of saying it.

True! Not a good look at all but not good judgement taking a howitzer to shoot a sparrow either! ???? :facepalm:

[Big Dave]

True! Not a good look at all but not good judgement taking a howitzer to shoot a sparrow either! ???? :facepalm:

He might even be right in some circumstances, but he turned himself into 'foo was here'.

[shrub]

It was a stupid thing to say, from someone who obviously didn't understand the repercussions of saying it.

Or how he conducted himself afterwards. The way he carried on in the TV3 interview made him look lie an arrogant cock smoker who got his way through bullying people. My first thought was that he had never had any media training, but he has been a local body politician and in a high profile senior role, so he had to have had some at some stage.

Which suggests he's either an idiot (unlikely), lacks the ability to keep his feelings to himself (again unlikely, he's a politician) or has ended up thinking he is far more powerful and important than he really is. Failing that he has had a brain meltdown from too many liquid lunches and is on the slippery slope to sitting in a room rocking backwards and forwards while he advises God on how to run the universe.

[007XX]

Statistics, schmatistics...

Segregation of any individual because of their biological differences is wrong, full stop...

Whether silly tarts around the country are taking advantage of it? Different question altogether...If they are TRULY the cause for hardworking, smart chicks out there who work their arses off to make a decent living, without abusing the system and who still get paid less than men, then I'd love to personally smack them.

Example: When smokers supposedly (or truly) take more breaks than non smokers, there was an uproar... but no lowering of pay to smokers for their lesser performance right?

So can anybody explain to me, sensibly and logically, why would women (given even criterions of employment ie: qualifications, hours of work completed, etc) still be paid less than men?

One would think that it would be affecting a minority on a case by case basis, based upon individual performance appraisal...Not a whole nation!!

[Banditbandit]

Example: When smokers supposedly (or truly) take more breaks than non smokers, there was an uproar... but no lowering of pay to smokers for their lesser performance right?



Don't even go there you naughty girl ...

[007XX]

Don't even go there you naughty girl ...

:innocent: Whatever might you mean?

But I'm still looking forward to someone answering my question...

[Indiana_Jones]

Example: When smokers supposedly (or truly) take more breaks than non smokers, there was an uproar... but no lowering of pay to smokers for their lesser performance right?

So can anybody explain to me, sensibly and logically, why would women (given even criterions of employment ie: qualifications, hours of work completed, etc) still be paid less than men?

One would think that it would be affecting a minority on a case by case basis, based upon individual performance appraisal...Not a whole nation!!

No one has said women should be paid less for doing the same job and given your example of the same skill base etc. I fully agree that they should be paid the same and in most cases are.

If a woman or bloke is in bed sick then they are not productive. Regardless of what cause them to get into bed. And once your sick days are up then you don't get paid. So if Bob takes 10 sick days over his allowance then he's not gonna get paid for them is he, hence he takes home less money.

This is all the useless cunt was trying to say, but he pussyfooted about it and chose the wrong words.

-Indy

[007XX]

"All the above"

This is all the useless cunt was trying to say, but he pussyfooted about it and chose the wrong words.

-Indy

I knew you were not just a pretty face :)

[Indiana_Jones]

I knew you were not just a pretty face :)

lol :woohoo:

So yeah, all he was trying to say, from what I can tell, was "I think women take more sick days and I think that's because they're on the rag"

But yeah, doesn't really matter tbh lol

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

This is all the useless cunt was trying to say, but he pussyfooted about it and chose the wrong words.

-Indy

So .. he's a useless cunt - whichever way you cut it .. and he needed to go ...

[Indiana_Jones]

So .. he's a useless cunt - whichever way you cut it .. and he needed to go ...

It's just easier to give the people (no matter how small the demand) what they want sometimes :yes:

-Indy

[oldrider]

He might even be right in some circumstances, but he turned himself into 'foo was here'.

Doesn't that tell us more about the people that hired and fired him!

Had he been a woman of course there would have been considerably less money involved.

Well, wouldn't there be? :blink:

[The Lone Rider]

Doesn't that tell us more about the people that hired and fired him!

Had he been a woman of course there would have been considerably less money involved.

Well, wouldn't there be? :blink:

And probably wouldn't have fired "her."

[007XX]

Well, wouldn't there be? :blink:

Why you....C'mere! :chase::spanking:

[Big Dave]

Doesn't that tell us more about the people that hired and fired him!

I thinks it's more failure to understand the sistas and politics.

[dirtridergirl]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10734009


Tend to agree with this guy because at my work, women generally leave work a lot earlier, take longer lunches, tend to take more holiday leave and they do tend to take more sick leave too. Don't get me wrong, there are 2 or three that work as hard but a large majority is out the door once clock strikes 5.

What you fullas think?
I think the woman at your work probably leave work earlier because they are going home to cook your tea and look after the kids, I think your comment is sexist.

[jaffaonajappa]

I think the woman at your work probably leave work earlier because they are going home to cook your tea and look after the kids, I think your comment is sexist.

Quiiiite unlike your comment...not sexist whatsoever....
But. I too have noticed no difference in amount of sick days taken between males and females.....except women save them for looking after their kids, and some men get man-flu. Crap. Did I shoot my foot just now?

[Clockwork]

Seriously, how would you know what any colleagues sick leave was taken for, male or female? Generally speaking, what business is it of a colleagues anyway?

I don't recall ever having to advise my employer of the nature of my illness whenever I've taken it in the past. I guess within a certain threshold they just don't see it as any business of theirs either.

[Banditbandit]

Doesn't that tell us more about the people that hired and fired him!

Had he been a woman of course there would have been considerably less money involved.

Well, wouldn't there be? :blink:

:facepalm: Had "he" been a "woman" "he" would not have made such a dickhead comment ...