Motorcycles to use bike advanced stop zones - we hope

[cheshirecat]

Proposal here (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/bikers-to-use-advanced-stop-lines/5384.html) UK only unfortuneatley, but could it work here and would it benifit cycles to have a more 'weighty' read visible and symathetic vehicle next to them

[rastuscat]

Proposal here (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/bikers-to-use-advanced-stop-lines/5384.html) UK only unfortuneatley, but could it work here and would it benifit cycles to have a more 'weighty' read visible and symathetic vehicle next to them

Please repost this in English.

[cheshirecat]

Please repost this in English.
Oh English. I was still in 'confusing the ACC' mode.

Would using advanced bike stopping zones work here or would the PC cycle folk raise Hell?

[Berries]

I can't see any benefits to cyclists, they will just feel pressured by a vehicle in 'their' space. What do you mean by sympathetic anyway? Bloody freaks.

Does it mean that filtering is to be encouraged or motorbikes will be allowed to use cycle lanes? The only time I see it being an advantage is if you have more than two bikes filtering up to the front and they can spread out when they get there. Nothing worse than being in a queue three or four bikes back between two lanes of traffic when the lights go green. It happened once in Dunedin, honest.

[jaffaonajappa]

or motorbikes will be allowed to use cycle lanes?

wait a minute.
Are you saying I shouldnt use cycle lanes on my motorcycle?

[Berries]

It all depends on how much lycra you are wearing.

[jaffaonajappa]

It all depends on how much lycra you are wearing.

none... visible.....

[2wheeled Gasman]

Proposal here (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/bikers-to-use-advanced-stop-lines/5384.html) UK only unfortuneatley, but could it work here and would it benifit cycles to have a more 'weighty' read visible and symathetic vehicle next to them

This area at traffic lights is already in use in Hastings Hawkes Bay:innocent:

[Guided_monkey]

Won't work..... stupid cagers would just pull forward into the cycle box.

Was on a dual lane road today and BOTH the cagers in front were in the pedestrian cross area.:facepalm:

[Latte]

I currently use the green boxes all the time, I thought the sensors installed in those areas were better at picking up lighter vehicles.

[Scouse]

I currently use the green boxes all the time, I thought the sensors installed in those areas were better at picking up lighter vehicles.yep me too I use these but I dont see the sense in putting pushbikes (slow vunerable) at the front of a heap of cars trucks and motorbikes that are going to force their way past the pushbikes at the very first opertunity ya know it just seens so dumb

[kunoichi]

yep me too I use these but I dont see the sense in putting pushbikes (slow vunerable) at the front of a heap of cars trucks and motorbikes that are going to force their way past the pushbikes at the very first opertunity ya know it just seens so dumb

Point well made :clap:

I still think if your vehicle isn't registered or WOFed then it shouldn't b on the road

[GrayWolf]

Oh English. I was still in 'confusing the ACC' mode.

Would using advanced bike stopping zones work here or would the PC cycle folk raise Hell?

Probably raise hell, HOWEVER..... should the Govt. finaly grow some 'round ones'? They ARE vehicles on the public road, and about time they were at least 'registered' so as to pay some of the rehabilitation costs they also incour.

[Pixie]

I use them all the time.
I had a car driver inquire as to whether I was entitled to use one,once,
I invited him to go fuck himself.

[Clockwork]

Editted to spare my blushes


(Must engage brain before putting fingers into gear)

[mrchips]

Advanced stop boxes are now being installed in Wellytown, locations as per Yippee Ki-Yay, Mother Russia (http://maps.google.co.nz/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&source=embed&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103125032173607683706.00048bb2391cf4e91f633)

in short... "Wellington City Council has marked roads at traffic lights so cyclists can stop at lights ahead of other vehicles... Motorists need to stop further back and be prepared for cyclists moving forward to the front of the traffic queue."

Dom post Info here.. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8493112/New-traffic-markings-make-cyclists-more-prominent)

Would it be legal for motorcycles to position themselves inside these 'stop boxes'

Please discuss.

I think i'll give WCC a call tomorow.

[Berries]

Erm, no. They are cycle boxes.

[awayatc]

sidewalk....?
am pedestrian since birth

[GrayWolf]

Call me a bloody old Cynic, but,,,,
Can see how this is going to 'pan out' already..
1) cyclists lane filtering/splitting to get to the 'box'... we'll end up with them 'stuck between' the rows of cars, further impeding the traffic movement from the lights
2) of course the cars 'stuck' behind the slow moving cyclists in rush hour(s) will be patient, curteous :shutup: they wont tailgate, try to overtake, force said bikes towards the kerb, OR try to force their way into the outside lane(s)..
3) Said Cyclists of course will also be traffic minded, and not ride 2-3-4 abreast, perform the usual cyclist behaviour of just diving out around parked cars etc without any form of mirror, head check, or indication


it's going to end up with pissed off motorists, who are going to get aggressive, and snotty attitude cyclists who think they own the road??

OH bugger quick, get em to join KB, they'll fit right in here !!!! :stoogie:

[Icemaestro]

They have them already on the shore, I use them every day :-P I like to think I'm helping congestion, not taking up a car space, plus I take off faster than anything else in the queue

[90s]

There are many of these 'boxes' in Auckand, and I have been using them both as a cyclist and motorcyclist for years. I used them in London for years before that.

As a cyclist being at the front is an advantage, and I have never found it to be a problem with traffic. Unless a cage is trying to do a 5 sec 0-60 as a cyclist I am faster over the first 10m which is all I need to pull to the side. It always suprises me how many motorbikers dislike cyclists, when I have found being a cyclist has improved my biking a lot. Riding the same road on a cycle, motorbike and car lets you see all the issues from all the angles. At least I can see why everyone hates everyone else ...

As a motorbiker the stop zones are a great advantage, and I assumed that it was OK to be in this space. We can share bus lanes zoned for cycles in Auckland and also therefore the bus/cycle boxes. Or you would have a situarion when being in the 'green' lane would be legal util you got to a lights. I would have thought. Its in trafficks interest to have us in front, where we move faster than they move, and not making the queue longer.

[Hoon]

Same they've been on Lincoln Rd, West Auckland for sometime now and I use them everyday as well. Instead of filtering between lanes now I can just approach the intersection in the wrong lane and then cut in front of the correct lane using the box. I also cycle but the boxes haven't really been that beneficial for me as I usually stick to the kerb anyway instead of hogging the whole lane.

[Gremlin]

Don't forget that some cars are incapable of stopping before the green box, and park in it instead... much the same way they don't stop behind the normal white lines at intersections.... (bit of a pet hate)...

[kinger]

Its in trafficks interest to have us in front, where we move faster than they move, and not making the queue longer.

That's a wonderfully self deluded thought. Of course everyone will be delayed behind you, even slightly. You then have the same knock on effect of a crash on the M4 where the whole scene is cleared up and it stil concertinas back.

[Swoop]

If a car's brakes are that bad that they cannot stop before to green box, fuck em.
Happily filter to the front and still park in front of their bonnet. The knob-gobblers shouldn't try and run the effin' red light in the first place.

[Hoon]

That's a wonderfully self deluded thought. Of course everyone will be delayed behind you, even slightly. You then have the same knock on effect of a crash on the M4 where the whole scene is cleared up and it stil concertinas back.

Dude that is equally just as deluded. Unless it was your intention to propose a similarly fanciful scenario but from the extreme opposite side of the spectrum to illustrate your point.

[bogan]

As a cyclist being at the front is an advantage, and I have never found it to be a problem with traffic. Unless a cage is trying to do a 5 sec 0-60 as a cyclist I am faster over the first 10m which is all I need to pull to the side.

I still don't get why cycles can't just start on the side, are the boxes there for turning right or left or something? Seem stupid to put the slow vehicles in the front of the queue if all are just going straight ahead anyway...

[superjackal]

Won't work..... stupid cagers would just pull forward into the cycle box.

Was on a dual lane road today and BOTH the cagers in front were in the pedestrian cross area.:facepalm:

Coming to work this morning some knob-end cager in a suped-up Forrester sped up as I went to undertake him. What's with that? My bad?

Idiot. We just pass them later.

[Devil]

Coming to work this morning some knob-end cager in a suped-up Forrester sped up as I went to undertake him. What's with that? My bad?

Idiot. We just pass them later.

I think I found your problem.

[Hoon]

I still don't get why cycles can't just start on the side, are the boxes there for turning right or left or something?

Just having a stab here - this is based on my own experience as a cyclist and the close calls I've had.

1. Situations where the cyclist is going straight ahead but the adjacent vehicle is turning left. Common sense would have you believe that when the lights turn green the vehicle would wait until the cyclist has cleared the intersection before turning left but what often happens is that the vehicle will attempt to launch out in front and then turn left across the path of the cyclist.

2. When starting on the side of a vehicle (both parties going straight ahead), the driver of the vehicle sometimes doesn't notice the cyclist, or after moving into the intersection doesn't realise that a cyclist has entered the area to the left of their vehicle. That driver then fails to ensure there is adequate space for the cyclist (1.2m?) and inadvertantly sends them into the kerb and under their wheels.

So to me it seems the green box solution they've opted for solves the above by (1) dominating the lane until across the intersection and (2) ensure all vehicles are aware of the cyclist's presence while passing through the intersection.

Ohh and just to state the obvious (to most but maybe not all), the intention is that upon exiting the intersection the cyclist takes up their normal spot on the hard left of the lane.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Advanced stop boxes are now being installed in Wellytown, locations as per Yippee Ki-Yay, Mother Russia (http://maps.google.co.nz/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&source=embed&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=103125032173607683706.00048bb2391cf4e91f633)

in short... "Wellington City Council has marked roads at traffic lights so cyclists can stop at lights ahead of other vehicles... Motorists need to stop further back and be prepared for cyclists moving forward to the front of the traffic queue."

Dom post Info here.. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8493112/New-traffic-markings-make-cyclists-more-prominent)

Would it be legal for motorcycles to position themselves inside these 'stop boxes'

Please discuss.

I think i'll give WCC a call tomorow.

You are very exposed to traffic coming from your right: I dont feel that comfortable in them. I tend to filter and stop just in front of the lead car. I also dont really nail it coming off the lights because as we all know, red lights are optional. Move that head, people.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That's a wonderfully self deluded thought. Of course everyone will be delayed behind you, even slightly. You then have the same knock on effect of a crash on the M4 where the whole scene is cleared up and it stil concertinas back.

incorrect because the light phases are shorter in urban traffic. Its the cars that hold shit up not the bikes or motorbikes.

[Flip]

There are two groups I dislike on the road for the same reason. The boi racers and the cyclists. They both have the same snot nose, spoilt middle class winging attitude. They both need a good dose of the car crusher.

[superjackal]

I think I found your problem.

I'm not sure you did.

[not2slow]

So dragging up an old post, but thought I would share my experience with testing whether motorcycles can use these advance stop boxes (ASB) or cycle boxes.

Short answer is: motorcycles are not suppose to use these boxes. There is no law stating motorcycles can or cannot use these ASB. Therefore you default to the sign in the box. There is no motorcycle in the box only a bicycle.... seems pretty flimsy to me... but I have just been to a disputes tribunal and lost because there is no sign saying motorcycles can use these boxes..... so take care when using these things.

If anyone was had any experience with the law in regards to ASB and has come across an alternative opinion let me know....
J.

[FJRider]

/ There is no motorcycle in the box only a bicycle.... seems pretty flimsy to me... but I have just been to a disputes tribunal and lost because there is no sign saying motorcycles can use these boxes..... so take care when using these things.

If anyone was had any experience with the law in regards to ASB and has come across an alternative opinion let me know....
J.

There is a theory you can park anywhere except if a sign or law states you can't. Point to the sign or law that says you cant park in that box. Note ... normal overtaking laws to GET to that box WILL apply.

[Berries]

So dragging up an old post, but thought I would share my experience with testing whether motorcycles can use these advance stop boxes (ASB) or cycle boxes.

Short answer is: motorcycles are not suppose to use these boxes. There is no law stating motorcycles can or cannot use these ASB. Therefore you default to the sign in the box. There is no motorcycle in the box only a bicycle.... seems pretty flimsy to me... but I have just been to a disputes tribunal and lost because there is no sign saying motorcycles can use these boxes..... so take care when using these things.

If anyone was had any experience with the law in regards to ASB and has come across an alternative opinion let me know....
J.
See post 17. Advanced stop boxes were brought in to help cyclists get in front of other traffic when pulling off so they can be seen. Motorbikes don't need this because they have engines. The logical conclusion to your argument is that cars can use them as well. The clue is in the symbol painted in them.

See section 3.18.08 on this link. (htthttps://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/motsam/part-2/docs/motsam-2-section-3.pdfp://)

I just filter so I am level with the front of the cars either side. It would be far easier to just go up the empty cycle lane on the left to get to the front and sit in the ASB but I know there is a difference between a GSXR and a Raleigh 20 and I know that the cops know that as well. Asking for it really.

Having said that, there are a number of things that have been brought in over the last few years that have just appeared, with no real information behind them. A couple of these I bend the rules on and would be tempted to defend a ticket.

[90s]

See post 17. Advanced stop boxes were brought in to help cyclists get in front of other traffic when pulling off so they can be seen. Motorbikes don't need this because they have engines. The logical conclusion to your argument is that cars can use them as well. The clue is in the symbol painted in them.

In fact in many places part of the motorbike test includes filtering through traffic at light to guess where - the front, where there is often a cycle box. Roads are not designed with usually either cyclists or motorbikes in mind, and so we (and I am both) often find we are in grey (or green) areas. Court is not the place where you want to clarify how the legal system interprets these issues - especially as it is inconsistent and often cannot be worked out directly from the statues.

Currently Auckland Transport are circulating information about what lanes motorbikes can and cannot use and they are clearly saying in this motorbikes cannot use the cycle boxes at light. However if you legally filter through "parked" traffic in many Auckland junctions you will either end up in one or between two cars just short of one. Any basic common sense would indicate the motorbike should use the space if not already being used by cyclists but that is in pretty short supply.