Ricardo S
3rd July 2011, 14:55
found it on: http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?36196-Lets-talk-about-sliding%21
and thought i'd share :msn-wink:
Lets talk about sliding!
I got a request from a user at apriliaforum to do a guide to sliding and I thought I'd post it here too if someone else wants to read it
Okay, here it goes, I have probably missed some bits but theres alot around sliding and I'd be parked by the computer for a week if I'd write it all down
First off all I like to say that sliding is a extension of riding fast, not a part of riding fast. You wont benefit from sliding unless you have all racing basics right. For me its a way of feeling secure and its also my way of having the most fun on the bike!
I usually dont talk about sliding when I teach racing. It is related to soo much natural reactions and starting with sliding the bike will delay you in your way to the top of the field.
Anyhow, you've been warned
Why do we slide the bike into the corner? One reason is that as the front wheel is straight along the straightway you can brake harder further into the corner. The main reason tho is that you can steer the bike around the corner more, that when you are going to throttle on in the same point of the corner as one who doesnt slide, you will be pointing further ahead towards the exit.
Why do we slide the bike out of the corner? On gravel you can do it to get better drive but on asphalt you only loose drive. Sliding out of a corner has in most cases no point except being fun The same thing happens on a exit slide as on a entry slide, you steer the bike even more than possible without sliding. The best place to do a power slide is when you take for example a right corner and the next one is a left corner which is quite close to the first corner. Powersliding the bike gives you a drive (not a great one tho) AND it puts you where you want to be for the next corner.
Another legitimate powerslide is when you have made a bad call and are going to run off track, powerslide the bike and it will stay on track but you will have lower speed out of the corner compared to the other racers.
The third positive powerslide is when you go thru a double apex (apex is where you are closest to the curbs) turn or a very late apex turn. If you are confident you can go faster into a double apex and just powerslide it in the middle to get put you in the right spot for the second apex and the acceleration. Heres a good example, I had to do this to keep up with the guys with tricked out aprilias, mine wouldnt hook up or let me have the same lean angles as they had: http://www.mortec.se/e107_plugins/au...from_spain.wmv . In the right hander I start a powerslide early (this is also the most difficult powerslide) and I let it grip again for the drive out.
Generally about sliding, its easier to control the HIGHER speed you have and its easier to live thru the hook up (when the rear wheel finds grip again) if you do it in LOW speed.
So how do you entry slide?
First of all go out there and find a spot where you can practice, it should be a space where you can do it safe, either a closed road or a very long straighway (unless you have access to a track). You will benefit from having a field where you can accelerate to 50mph(90km/h) and have time to brake if you are going to begin on asphalt. I recomend trying it out on fine gravel to start with as its easier to get the rear end loose.
Start with braking in a straight line, use front brake! First apply front brake, clutch, then apply rear brake in a calm way. When you start loosing grip try to steer the rear end out to one side. DO NOT let it go out too far. Its okay with just a couple of centimeters to start with. Steer it back so that the wheels get in line and then gently release the brakes, starting with the rear. Do this a couple of times and then go home, lie down on your sofa and think about what you've just done. Try to remember what you felt.
You should repeat step one untill you feel safe doing it. Next step is to continue doing the same thing, but before you go out this time try just sitting on the bike while its off and put the handlebars to stop in each direction. If you would slide the rear end to the steering stops you will by 90% chance take a good flight. Go out there again, this time you do the same but you try to go a little bit wider. This time you are not allowed to stop the wheel from spinning, you are supposed to just get the rear wheel to spin slower than the front wheel. Do it untill you can get it to slide without locking the rear wheel, then go home and think about it, feel it.
Repeat untill confident. Now, go out there, pull in the clutch, go down at first one gear (and then two), apply front brake, release clutch and feel the rear wheel hopping. Do this again but this time you release the clutch as much as you can without getting the rear wheel to "bounce". Do this untill you got both the rear wheel to loose grip and keep the rear wheel from hopping. If you like you could try out applying some rear brake too.
(Racers can start reading here)
Repeat last step untill you feel confident. Now you have built confidence and skill to keep the rear end loose. Next step is to take it into a corner. Find a spot where you can crash at and where you can turn the bike 180 degrees at atleast 10mph(15km/h), a parking lot would be good if you havent got access to a track. Theres two ways to do this. Some like to let the rear end out before starting to turn the bike in, I like to let the rear end out as I turn the bike. The first one takes up more space (if you're at a track) but it also makes the best pictures when you're new at sliding Normally when I teach racing I speak of only one turning point, where you turn and open the throttle, and even if you are sliding - one turning point is still the way to go fast. In the case of sliding you have one point where you turn to initiate the slide, I dont count this as a turning point. (just haveto write it down in case someone who reads it will learn racing from me in the future)...
...In the earlier exercises you've lined the wheels while straight up, now you should do the same but you are going to line them up in the lean. From here its just practice. You haveto be very very smooth with the clutch, rear brake and the front brake. DO NOT stress, do it calmly and its better to lowside than to get stressed. You haveto make up your mind to crash in a lowsider before you try to take the slide into the corner. Why? Because the more you stress the more you get influenced by your natural reactions. Your natural reactions tells you to let go if somethings about to be screwed up. Letting go means that you release all levers and the tyre will hook up in a brutal way that will send you off in a highsider. Even if you dont stress your natural reactions WILL try to force you to "just release". My tip is if you feel like it takes too much time to do the transition (from loose to grip) just lowside untill you can do it quick enough to keep you on the wheels.
Try taking it further and further into the corner up untill you slide past your normal apex. More lean means that you haveto have smoother and quicker transitions, in other words more precision. The earlier you can get to max lean the faster you go thru the corner and this is the factor that decides wether its quicker to slide or not slide into a corner. If you can steer the bike real quick without sliding you wont gain any speed from sliding untill you can steer the bike in at the same speed as without the slide.
I havent spoken anything about how you should sit on the bike yet, and I do that on purpose because it doesnt matter much anyways. You sit the way you feel that you can use the controls in the best way. Having a elbow up keeps you from leaning over to that side, holding the bike with your knees makes you feel safer etc etc. You haveto reach world class before moving around on the bike will make you faster in cornering. One thing tho, some people keep their right foot on the peg as the brake with the rear brake. I for one does not (shown in picture below). I think you should try out using the tip of you foot and your whole leg to brake and choose what you think is best.
Sliding is all about feeling. If you know how to ride a wheelie you know what the balance point feels like. It is a very similiar feeling when you reach the limit of a slide. Look at the pic shown below, it shows how much feeling I use.
So how do you exit slide?
First of all dont try to do this (with normal tyre pressures) untill you are a advanced racer, it will just make you crash. The exit slide is probably the most natural reaction triggering technique you can do. If you want to show off theres a couple of ways to do it safer tho. The first is to use realy high tyre pressures like 3,5 bar (50psi). But if you are going to use this trick you should practice alot on gravel first. The second is to use the front brake, its a more risky techinique that I never use except for rolling burnouts, but its a common way of doing drifting (yes it changes name from powerslide to drifting if you use this trick) by stuntmen and stunt riders.
Exit slides are easier than entry slides because you only use the throttle, but it is way harder because it triggers alot of natural reactions and it has to be done with good lean angles and precision. Third rule for riding fast is the most important one for exit slides - "Once the throttle is opened, it can only go in one direction". That doesnt mean you dont get to pause, you do, but you can never open the throttle and then close it. Closing the throttle makes the rear grip brutally and send you off into the skies. When I do powerslides I lean and open the throttle, then open the throttle a little more and if it doesnt loose grip I lean it a little more. When it looses grip I open the throttle untill I feel the limit where I'm gonna fall in and then I decrease my lean angle and open the throttle more to keep it on the limit. I constantly open the throttle more and more in baby steps and when I want to start my drive I pause the throttle and decrease lean untill it hooks up in a smooth way, then I start opening the throttle once again but this time much more agressively untill I feel that I get to the point where the rear end is going to loose grip again.
All of this happends in a very short time, if its a small corner it could be in just half a second. It takes alot of practice and its not something that will just go right if you put all your effort into it one time, you need to practice it in tiny steps with alot of confidence. As with entry slides (but reverse) you need better and better precision with more lean and the earlier you want to start the slide.
Some comments I once thought was bullshit:
Gary McCoy: "I sometimes highside the bike to change direction faster" - I just laughed when I heard this the first time... Had to take those laughs back tho, on the Honda I did use highsiding to go from left to right in some situations. You haveto be realy realy realy secure and confident on your bike to do this tho.
Johan Ejdehage (has won several swe championships): "I came into that corner with both the front and the rear sliding" - When I heard this the first time I thought it was pure bullshit! Both wheels loose SHOULD make you crash! Never did this on the Honda but on the Aprilia I've done it several times since I got the Alice Racing setup. If you have great grip balance you can loose both wheels at the same time and get them to grip again when you release the brakes. I dont think you will benefit from this unless you've got the calmness to do it when you have turned the bike in too much. Im sure I havent got curage to do that.
About my way of teaching racing.
I dont like to do it the same way as most that teaches racing, to go out there and tell someone where they should start braking, touch the clutch and so on in a specific part of the track. I do usually use one corner as a example but I focus on trying to teach what you should do in every corner, why you should open the throttle in that part of the corner, what keeps you from doing it and so on. I can in difference to other mx/sm/enduro teachers (that Ive listened to) promise you that when you've learned what I have to say you will ride the gocart faster than ever before! Why am I telling you this? Because I one day want to be able to go around the world and teach without spending my own money and maybe even make some money doing it
We have talked alot about confidence. In Spain trainging camp 2007 I was on the side of the track with Matt Winstanley (which I think had won the last heat of the WC 2006) and we were watching the swe champ riders practicing. I asked him "what do you think differs WC riders and those practicing here?". I got the answer "mostly confidence". Simple as that!
Feel free to ask questions and post pics/clips of you sliding and I'll do my best to help you out (clips are the best!)
Feel free to copy to other forums/sites, just state who wrote it (Olof "Olle" Eriksson) and please post link to where its posted in this forum. I like to see what people think/posts about it!
First picture taken by Henq (havent got your real name yet!), Second photo taken by Johan Söderström - www.jsfoto.com and then photographed by me for digital format)
and thought i'd share :msn-wink:
Lets talk about sliding!
I got a request from a user at apriliaforum to do a guide to sliding and I thought I'd post it here too if someone else wants to read it
Okay, here it goes, I have probably missed some bits but theres alot around sliding and I'd be parked by the computer for a week if I'd write it all down
First off all I like to say that sliding is a extension of riding fast, not a part of riding fast. You wont benefit from sliding unless you have all racing basics right. For me its a way of feeling secure and its also my way of having the most fun on the bike!
I usually dont talk about sliding when I teach racing. It is related to soo much natural reactions and starting with sliding the bike will delay you in your way to the top of the field.
Anyhow, you've been warned
Why do we slide the bike into the corner? One reason is that as the front wheel is straight along the straightway you can brake harder further into the corner. The main reason tho is that you can steer the bike around the corner more, that when you are going to throttle on in the same point of the corner as one who doesnt slide, you will be pointing further ahead towards the exit.
Why do we slide the bike out of the corner? On gravel you can do it to get better drive but on asphalt you only loose drive. Sliding out of a corner has in most cases no point except being fun The same thing happens on a exit slide as on a entry slide, you steer the bike even more than possible without sliding. The best place to do a power slide is when you take for example a right corner and the next one is a left corner which is quite close to the first corner. Powersliding the bike gives you a drive (not a great one tho) AND it puts you where you want to be for the next corner.
Another legitimate powerslide is when you have made a bad call and are going to run off track, powerslide the bike and it will stay on track but you will have lower speed out of the corner compared to the other racers.
The third positive powerslide is when you go thru a double apex (apex is where you are closest to the curbs) turn or a very late apex turn. If you are confident you can go faster into a double apex and just powerslide it in the middle to get put you in the right spot for the second apex and the acceleration. Heres a good example, I had to do this to keep up with the guys with tricked out aprilias, mine wouldnt hook up or let me have the same lean angles as they had: http://www.mortec.se/e107_plugins/au...from_spain.wmv . In the right hander I start a powerslide early (this is also the most difficult powerslide) and I let it grip again for the drive out.
Generally about sliding, its easier to control the HIGHER speed you have and its easier to live thru the hook up (when the rear wheel finds grip again) if you do it in LOW speed.
So how do you entry slide?
First of all go out there and find a spot where you can practice, it should be a space where you can do it safe, either a closed road or a very long straighway (unless you have access to a track). You will benefit from having a field where you can accelerate to 50mph(90km/h) and have time to brake if you are going to begin on asphalt. I recomend trying it out on fine gravel to start with as its easier to get the rear end loose.
Start with braking in a straight line, use front brake! First apply front brake, clutch, then apply rear brake in a calm way. When you start loosing grip try to steer the rear end out to one side. DO NOT let it go out too far. Its okay with just a couple of centimeters to start with. Steer it back so that the wheels get in line and then gently release the brakes, starting with the rear. Do this a couple of times and then go home, lie down on your sofa and think about what you've just done. Try to remember what you felt.
You should repeat step one untill you feel safe doing it. Next step is to continue doing the same thing, but before you go out this time try just sitting on the bike while its off and put the handlebars to stop in each direction. If you would slide the rear end to the steering stops you will by 90% chance take a good flight. Go out there again, this time you do the same but you try to go a little bit wider. This time you are not allowed to stop the wheel from spinning, you are supposed to just get the rear wheel to spin slower than the front wheel. Do it untill you can get it to slide without locking the rear wheel, then go home and think about it, feel it.
Repeat untill confident. Now, go out there, pull in the clutch, go down at first one gear (and then two), apply front brake, release clutch and feel the rear wheel hopping. Do this again but this time you release the clutch as much as you can without getting the rear wheel to "bounce". Do this untill you got both the rear wheel to loose grip and keep the rear wheel from hopping. If you like you could try out applying some rear brake too.
(Racers can start reading here)
Repeat last step untill you feel confident. Now you have built confidence and skill to keep the rear end loose. Next step is to take it into a corner. Find a spot where you can crash at and where you can turn the bike 180 degrees at atleast 10mph(15km/h), a parking lot would be good if you havent got access to a track. Theres two ways to do this. Some like to let the rear end out before starting to turn the bike in, I like to let the rear end out as I turn the bike. The first one takes up more space (if you're at a track) but it also makes the best pictures when you're new at sliding Normally when I teach racing I speak of only one turning point, where you turn and open the throttle, and even if you are sliding - one turning point is still the way to go fast. In the case of sliding you have one point where you turn to initiate the slide, I dont count this as a turning point. (just haveto write it down in case someone who reads it will learn racing from me in the future)...
...In the earlier exercises you've lined the wheels while straight up, now you should do the same but you are going to line them up in the lean. From here its just practice. You haveto be very very smooth with the clutch, rear brake and the front brake. DO NOT stress, do it calmly and its better to lowside than to get stressed. You haveto make up your mind to crash in a lowsider before you try to take the slide into the corner. Why? Because the more you stress the more you get influenced by your natural reactions. Your natural reactions tells you to let go if somethings about to be screwed up. Letting go means that you release all levers and the tyre will hook up in a brutal way that will send you off in a highsider. Even if you dont stress your natural reactions WILL try to force you to "just release". My tip is if you feel like it takes too much time to do the transition (from loose to grip) just lowside untill you can do it quick enough to keep you on the wheels.
Try taking it further and further into the corner up untill you slide past your normal apex. More lean means that you haveto have smoother and quicker transitions, in other words more precision. The earlier you can get to max lean the faster you go thru the corner and this is the factor that decides wether its quicker to slide or not slide into a corner. If you can steer the bike real quick without sliding you wont gain any speed from sliding untill you can steer the bike in at the same speed as without the slide.
I havent spoken anything about how you should sit on the bike yet, and I do that on purpose because it doesnt matter much anyways. You sit the way you feel that you can use the controls in the best way. Having a elbow up keeps you from leaning over to that side, holding the bike with your knees makes you feel safer etc etc. You haveto reach world class before moving around on the bike will make you faster in cornering. One thing tho, some people keep their right foot on the peg as the brake with the rear brake. I for one does not (shown in picture below). I think you should try out using the tip of you foot and your whole leg to brake and choose what you think is best.
Sliding is all about feeling. If you know how to ride a wheelie you know what the balance point feels like. It is a very similiar feeling when you reach the limit of a slide. Look at the pic shown below, it shows how much feeling I use.
So how do you exit slide?
First of all dont try to do this (with normal tyre pressures) untill you are a advanced racer, it will just make you crash. The exit slide is probably the most natural reaction triggering technique you can do. If you want to show off theres a couple of ways to do it safer tho. The first is to use realy high tyre pressures like 3,5 bar (50psi). But if you are going to use this trick you should practice alot on gravel first. The second is to use the front brake, its a more risky techinique that I never use except for rolling burnouts, but its a common way of doing drifting (yes it changes name from powerslide to drifting if you use this trick) by stuntmen and stunt riders.
Exit slides are easier than entry slides because you only use the throttle, but it is way harder because it triggers alot of natural reactions and it has to be done with good lean angles and precision. Third rule for riding fast is the most important one for exit slides - "Once the throttle is opened, it can only go in one direction". That doesnt mean you dont get to pause, you do, but you can never open the throttle and then close it. Closing the throttle makes the rear grip brutally and send you off into the skies. When I do powerslides I lean and open the throttle, then open the throttle a little more and if it doesnt loose grip I lean it a little more. When it looses grip I open the throttle untill I feel the limit where I'm gonna fall in and then I decrease my lean angle and open the throttle more to keep it on the limit. I constantly open the throttle more and more in baby steps and when I want to start my drive I pause the throttle and decrease lean untill it hooks up in a smooth way, then I start opening the throttle once again but this time much more agressively untill I feel that I get to the point where the rear end is going to loose grip again.
All of this happends in a very short time, if its a small corner it could be in just half a second. It takes alot of practice and its not something that will just go right if you put all your effort into it one time, you need to practice it in tiny steps with alot of confidence. As with entry slides (but reverse) you need better and better precision with more lean and the earlier you want to start the slide.
Some comments I once thought was bullshit:
Gary McCoy: "I sometimes highside the bike to change direction faster" - I just laughed when I heard this the first time... Had to take those laughs back tho, on the Honda I did use highsiding to go from left to right in some situations. You haveto be realy realy realy secure and confident on your bike to do this tho.
Johan Ejdehage (has won several swe championships): "I came into that corner with both the front and the rear sliding" - When I heard this the first time I thought it was pure bullshit! Both wheels loose SHOULD make you crash! Never did this on the Honda but on the Aprilia I've done it several times since I got the Alice Racing setup. If you have great grip balance you can loose both wheels at the same time and get them to grip again when you release the brakes. I dont think you will benefit from this unless you've got the calmness to do it when you have turned the bike in too much. Im sure I havent got curage to do that.
About my way of teaching racing.
I dont like to do it the same way as most that teaches racing, to go out there and tell someone where they should start braking, touch the clutch and so on in a specific part of the track. I do usually use one corner as a example but I focus on trying to teach what you should do in every corner, why you should open the throttle in that part of the corner, what keeps you from doing it and so on. I can in difference to other mx/sm/enduro teachers (that Ive listened to) promise you that when you've learned what I have to say you will ride the gocart faster than ever before! Why am I telling you this? Because I one day want to be able to go around the world and teach without spending my own money and maybe even make some money doing it
We have talked alot about confidence. In Spain trainging camp 2007 I was on the side of the track with Matt Winstanley (which I think had won the last heat of the WC 2006) and we were watching the swe champ riders practicing. I asked him "what do you think differs WC riders and those practicing here?". I got the answer "mostly confidence". Simple as that!
Feel free to ask questions and post pics/clips of you sliding and I'll do my best to help you out (clips are the best!)
Feel free to copy to other forums/sites, just state who wrote it (Olof "Olle" Eriksson) and please post link to where its posted in this forum. I like to see what people think/posts about it!
First picture taken by Henq (havent got your real name yet!), Second photo taken by Johan Söderström - www.jsfoto.com and then photographed by me for digital format)