Burqa

[Usarka]

I smell an un-jumped on bandwagon.

I personally believe the burqa is a traditional item rather than a religious one (ever seen an indonesian islamic in a burqa?). But I'm self confesseed religiously ignorant.

It's all about tolerance people.

So, Brian Tamkai if you're reading this I challenge you to find a religious reason for males of your church to wear balaclavas in public. Let's see how long the feminists tolerate that.....

[wysper]

That would actually be very interesting.

Especially if it happened NOW, as in the same time this current debate is at the front of peoples mind.

[Maha]

I dont care, either way.
Its a non-issue (unless thay are made wear Hi-Viz Burqas)

[oneofsix]

I dont care, either way.
Its a non-issue (unless thay are made wear Hi-Viz Burqas)

Of course it is :yes: so let the fun begin

You have to expect people to react to the way you dress. If you dress like an office worker people react to you like you are an office worker. Same if you dress like a construction worker. If you dress out of the norm for the society you are apart of then I suggest heading for your local hardware store, buying a bag of cement and harden the F u, cause people are going to react to you like you don't belong.




Burqa
I smell an un-jumped on bandwagon.

I personally believe the burqa is a traditional item rather than a religious one (ever seen an indonesian islamic in a burqa?). But I'm self confesseed religiously ignorant.

It's all about tolerance people.

So, Brian Tamkai if you're reading this I challenge you to find a religious reason for males of your church to wear balaclavas in public. Let's see how long the feminists tolerate that.....

The Burqa was originally traditional amongst a nomadic tribe but has been turned into a religious item, like the head scarfs some Christian woman wear, neither has a basis in the original religious teachings. Ok some use the tenuous justification of modesty which both quoted religions do refer to but modesty, which is all that is required, evolves and has never been about totally hiding.

Yeah good luck with the balaclava thing. I heard of a guy getting arrested for wear a motorcycle helmet walking down a shopping street.

[Paul in NZ]

The whole thing is a bloody stupid beat up. 2 dumb as fuck bus drivers act like arses (I'm sorry - but we all know what some akl bus drivers are like) and the whole place stops and the Saudi Consulate General writes to the govt?

FFS. Go ANYWHERE in Saudi and european women are required to meet some pretty strict local laws and customs and are faced with 'difficulties every day. And this is one of the good countries in the region?

Now Muslim women are worried they might not get jobs here because of the way they dress? Well duh! Theres a lot of jobs I wouldnt get because of the way I dress and look too ffs... Its called reality!

Sigh...

[Indiana_Jones]

Yeah good luck with the balaclava thing. I heard of a guy getting arrested for wear a motorcycle helmet walking down a shopping street.

This is the issue I have with it. I can't walk into a bank with a bike lid on, but if a camel jockey wears their tent that's fine?

-Indy

[oneofsix]

This is the issue I have with it. I can't walk into a bank with a bike lid on, but if a camel jockey wears their tent that's fine?

-Indy

Is it? I often wondered about that, and its more than banks. I suspect these chicks are some dominated by their religion that they probably aren't allowed their own bank accounts anyhow.

[Sable]

They're illegal in France, where it is not an example of intolerance so much as secularism. You're not allowed to wear religious symbols at public schools or in government jobs, not even a cross. And I agree with this. Fuck traditional being a good enough reason for anything, they're just devices for opressing women.

[oneofsix]

The whole thing is a bloody stupid beat up. 2 dumb as fuck bus drivers act like arses (I'm sorry - but we all know what some akl bus drivers are like) and the whole place stops and the Saudi Consulate General writes to the govt?

FFS. Go ANYWHERE in Saudi and european women are required to meet some pretty strict local laws and customs and are faced with 'difficulties every day. And this is one of the good countries in the region?

Now Muslim women are worried they might not get jobs here because of the way they dress? Well duh! Theres a lot of jobs I wouldnt get because of the way I dress and look too ffs... Its called reality!

Sigh...

just read that article Paul. They seem to have a funny idea of corporate NZ


"I know I'm going to have a hard time just being in my veil and applying to a corporate role ... I can't wait to work but sometimes I'm worried how I'm going to fit into a corporate environment where I'm not wearing a miniskirt."

I wish they all wore mini skirts :drool:

One of the amusing sights I've seen around town, and it might have been one of the woman quoted, was a chick in the head scarf, hijab, thing but very sexy nice looking legs encased in tight jeans encrusted with bling. Hmmm modest I wonder :scratch:

[Paul in NZ]

just read that article Paul. They seem to have a funny idea of corporate NZ :

Ha.... They wear 8 acres of cloth wrapped around themselves - corporate NZ aint the ONLY funny idea they have...

But for that matter - corporate NZ has a few funny ideas too...

[Maha]

Of course it is :yes: so let the fun begin



Anything/subject only becomes an issue if you allow it...frankly, this Burqa thing does not bother me at all.

If i wanna walk down the road or into a shop wearing Supreman undies pulled over neon green tights then I will do it and fuck what any member of the public thinks of me for doing so.
If the sight of someone upsets you to the point of being a arse about it, you need to step back at take a longer look at yourself.
This is a real case of...people caring what other people think when most will say that they dont.

[Paul in NZ]

I went for a run last night wearing tights, a skin tight thermal top and a rain jacket, cap with torch thingy and a giant belt with bottles n shit to last a thirsty athelete 4 months crossing the sahara....

If I was a bus driver I wouldnt have picked me up....

[Maha]

I went for a run last night wearing tights, a skin tight thermal top and a rain jacket, cap with torch thingy and a giant belt with bottles n shit to last a thirsty athelete 4 months crossing the sahara....

If I was a bus driver I wouldnt have picked me up....

........cos' clearly you had no visable place for cash Paul...:corn:

[george formby]

Meh, an incident on the box last night from Austarlia detailed a court case where a Burqa wearing woman had been pulled over by the feds, she accused the officer of ripping off her Burqa but the dash cam in his car showed otherwise. She was prosecuted for giving false evidence BUT the case was thrown out because they had no idea who was in the Burqa, either in court or at the time of the offence.

This for me is where the law has to out weigh any religious or traditional protocols. If people need to be identified, in banks, on video in buses or for legal reasons then it is a black & white case of get them off. No argument whatsoever IMHO.

[insane1]

you want to wear that in your country fine enough but come here and try the same fuck off ,makes you look like osama whats his face.

[oneofsix]

Meh, an incident on the box last night from Austarlia detailed a court case where a Burqa wearing woman had been pulled over by the feds, she accused the officer of ripping off her Burqa but the dash cam in his car showed otherwise. She was prosecuted for giving false evidence BUT the case was thrown out because they had no idea who was in the Burqa, either in court or at the time of the offence.

This for me is where the law has to out weigh any religious or traditional protocols. If people need to be identified, in banks, on video in buses or for legal reasons then it is a black & white case of get them off. No argument whatsoever IMHO.

that cop was on a lose lose. If he had of ripped the mask of as accused then they could have identified the witch but she would have got away anyhow due to :crybaby: 'you can't do that' attitude.
When you need to be identified you have to remove the covering should be end of story. If you want ot wear it don't go or do thing where someone will need to identify you.
Hate to say it but perhaps the French have it right. Rather than religious freedom they have more a religious equality and secular government so no matter what your believes you all have to behave the same.

[Big Dave]

I just think 'birk-er' is an apt description and leave it at that.

[oneofsix]

I just think 'birk-er' is an apt description and leave it at that.

guess we are all ready well down that track as it appears we don't care if it is a Hijab or a niqab or whatever if you wear it you and it are a birk-er

[Paul in NZ]

........cos' clearly you had no visable place for cash Paul...:corn:

Mate - these tights make it look like I've got a wad of hundred dollar bills and two sacks of change stuffed down there. Vicki made me wear shorts (I never thought I'd hear her tell me 'you can't go out like THAT - I'm quite new to this running lark, it appears to be insane)

[Bounce001]

I thought I might start wearing one under the helmet when riding. Then the cops can take my photo whenever they want!

[Paul in NZ]

guess we are all ready well down that track as it appears we don't care if it is a Hijab or a niqab or whatever if you wear it you and it are a birk-er

Since when are them bikers putting hiabs on their bikes? shifty lot - cant trust em.

Anyway - If I have to take me helmet off in the bank so should they...

[MSTRS]

Tolerance Shmolerance. Ban the fkn things, like France did..

The burqa is not a religious requirement per the Koran. It is up to the individual woman whether they wear it or just a head scarf.

[Big Dave]

I thought I might start wearing one under the helmet when riding. Then the cops can take my photo whenever they want!

I'd prefer to see your old man in one.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I smell an un-jumped on bandwagon.

I personally believe the burqa is a traditional item rather than a religious one (ever seen an indonesian islamic in a burqa?). But I'm self confesseed religiously ignorant.

It's all about tolerance people.

So, Brian Tamkai if you're reading this I challenge you to find a religious reason for males of your church to wear balaclavas in public. Let's see how long the feminists tolerate that.....


I've got the solution. People worry about the burka and the facemask thing for a couple of reasons: OTOH they are

security: who is this person? All I can see is eyes? (and of course there are versions where even they are covered.)

is this a male or female, or terrorist of either gender?

how can I post an envelope in that tiny slot? when will it be cleared?

So my answer is yes, they can wear the mask and the ugly ones HAVE to.

if you wear the mask though, you have to wear a bikini. thats so we can see they arent wearing an explosive vest. easy peasy.

[Paul in NZ]

I thought I might start wearing one under the helmet when riding. Then the cops can take my photo whenever they want!

We should form a religion - blessed church of the balaclava. I want to be the low priest...

[Big Dave]

We should form a religion - blessed church of the balaclava. I want to be the low priest...

Blessed Order of the Henchmen. And their savior - Ronald Biggs.

[Bounce001]

I'd prefer to see your old man in one.

He's not that ugly...

[bogan]

I've got the solution. People worry about the burka and the facemask thing for a couple of reasons: OTOH they are

security: who is this person? All I can see is eyes? (and of course there are versions where even they are covered.)

is this a male or female, or terrorist of either gender?

how can I post an envelope in that tiny slot? when will it be cleared?

So my answer is yes, they can wear the mask and the ugly ones HAVE to.

if you wear the mask though, you have to wear a bikini. thats so we can see they arent wearing an explosive vest. easy peasy.

I like this solution.

Another one could be to put registration numbers on each burqa so you know who's in it!

[Voltaire]

I asked the Security Guard who is from Pakistan what would happen if a woman wearing Burqa wanted to enter the building. He said he would ask her to remove it for identification purposes and went on to say its not a religious requirement but tradition.

[nudemetalz]

How much C4 can you get under a Burqa?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I asked the Security Guard who is from Pakistan what would happen if a woman wearing Burqa wanted to enter the building. He said he would ask her to remove it for identification purposes and went on to say its not a religious requirement but tradition.


a tool of oppression.

[avgas]

Even Ninja's gotta take the bus
http://wa1.www.radiolive.co.nz/Portals/0/AM/2011/7/5/21483/burka_bus.jpg?width=170&height=112
Ninja's - They everywhere!!

[Big Dave]

He's not that ugly...

But the beard would work.

[HenryDorsetCase]

How much C4 can you get under a Burqa?

a fair amount. theres pictures on the web. gross pictures. but the women suicide bomber is a common enough thing.

[meteor]

This is the issue I have with it. I can't walk into a bank with a bike lid on, but if a camel jockey wears their tent that's fine?

-Indy

That's so fuckn rude... I can't stop laughing

[ynot slow]

The idea is if I want to go to a country which for religious reasons bans alcohol,and I want to bring my beer,then it won't happen legally.So I must conform to that lands laws and beliefs(here in lies the problem with imports),but when they come here to live they want to impose their ideals on us,I can't go into bank,servo with balaclava on,anyone see a similarity.

[Berries]

I wonder if they get served at Shell ?

[Kickaha]

,I can't go into bank,servo with balaclava on,anyone see a similarity.

Depends, has your family,ethnic or religious group traditionally worn balaclavas for centuries?

If not then no I don't see any similarity

[jazfender]

In public, people should be able to wear whatever the fuck they want.

[Usarka]

Depends, has your family,ethnic or religious group traditionally worn balaclavas for centuries?

If not then no I don't see any similarity

Time is an invalid argument. People have been smoking opium around the world for centuries but it's illegal in most western countries.

The burqa is an interpretation of the koran talking about modesty. If the pope (or brian tamaki) interpreted Jesus' beard as meaning we should wear balaclavas today then the same principle stands.


In public, people should be able to wear whatever the fuck they want.

Mongrel Mob members in balaclavas hanging out outside the bank...?

[jazfender]

I have heard that the Burqa is a custom imposed by men on women so that other men aren't as likely to fall into...temptation.

That's fucked up but I'm not sure if it's true.

[jazfender]

Mongrel Mob members in balaclavas hanging out outside the bank...?

No crime, no problem.

That would make it very easy for cops to target anyway.

[Usarka]

The problem is that any one of us can walk down the road in a turban, or a skull cap thing, or hell even a dress. We'd offend people sure, but we wouldn't be taking a ride in cop car as a result - unless it was to the loony bin.

A bunch of mob'ers (or even some skinny white guys) wearing balaclavas would have the armed offenders squad jizzing over their carbines in the back of the paddy wagon.

[Berries]

Depends, has your family,ethnic or religious group traditionally worn balaclavas for centuries?

If not then no I don't see any similarity
For generations my family have quenched their thirst with beer after a hard days toil. I can't see that as acceptable in a number of countries. So I either don't go there or I accept their customs when I do go there. This goes for appropriate clothing just the same.

I would love to see the NZ consulate phone the King of Saudi and complain because I couldn't have a pint or the wife couldn't wear her mini skirt. It wouldn't happen would it?

Good idea for a new smiley though.242395

EDIT - Woops - http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/fatwa-bans-emoticons.html

[FJRider]

For generations my family have quenched their thirst with beer after a hard days toil. I can't see that as acceptable in a number of countries. So I either don't go there or I accept their customs when I do go there. This goes for appropriate clothing just the same.

I would love to see the NZ consulate phone the King of Saudi and complain because I couldn't have a pint or the wife couldn't wear her mini skirt. It wouldn't happen would it?

New Zealand is a free country ... those that reside here ... are free to dress in any manner that is legally acceptable ...

THEY ... as I do ...care little for YOUR devient customs ... regardless, if they are within the bounds of NZ legality .... or not ...

[awayatc]

Some Saudi ragtop commenting about how far away we were as a country, and therefor we were portrayed as somewhat backwards............

bit ripe coming from a place where they still stone people to death....

If it werent for oil nobody would piss in their sandpit
Ban burqua's..............

[Shadows]

I know.

How about we don't let the fuckers in in the first place.

[Berries]

New Zealand is a free country ... those that reside here ... are free to dress in any manner that is legally acceptable ...

THEY ... as I do ...care little for YOUR devient customs ... regardless, if they are within the bounds of NZ legality .... or not ...
Is that a yes then ?

[ducatilover]

So are we talking about burqa or niqāb? There's a difference, a burqa (To my pathetic knowledge) covers the eyes.

I reckon I'll crotchet myself a knob sock and wear that around.

It won't be very big :facepalm:

[Berries]

You'll get the same response if you show it to a bus driver.

[ducatilover]

I suppose I would. Good for a giggle though.

[Indiana_Jones]

You know he really hates it.....

-Indy

[007XX]

........cos' clearly you had no visable place for cash Paul...:corn:

Bahahahahaha..."you must spread yourself more, yadyayay..."


you want to wear that in your country fine enough but come here and try the same fuck off ,makes you look like osama whats his face.

Although we are becoming a more multi nationality country, I do believe that "when in Rome, do as the romans do"...

Respecting the culture of the country you emigrate to is, as far as I'm concerned, an integral part of being a good immigrant and it should be made law I reckon.

[Maha]

Although we are becoming a more multi nationality country, I do believe that "when in Rome, do as the romans do"....

Wear sandels?....:blink:

[Maha]

To flip the coin...
I do contract work for some Bretherens.
They have religous protocol that they abide by...I will never question that.
I wear shorts and never once have they questioned that.

[007XX]

Wear sandels?....:blink:

Nah mate... have slaves and organise "civilised jousts" between them and some cute, furry animals.

[ducatilover]

Although we are becoming a more multi nationality country, I do believe that "when in Rome, do as the romans do"...

Respecting the culture of the country you emigrate to is, as far as I'm concerned, an integral part of being a good immigrant and it should be made law I reckon.

So what do we call our culture and what cultural etiquette do the have to follow? Maori? Or perhaps some bastardised British, Scottish or Irish thing?

[ducatilover]

To flip the coin...
I do contract work for some Bretherens.
They have religous protocol that they abide by...I will never question that.
I wear shorts and never once have they questioned that.

You probably have sexy calves :yes:

[Maha]

You probably have sexy calves :yes:

I do but that beside the point....:rockon:

Its a weird situation at times though...I find that I dont eat in front of them (when working on the same job) not that it should bother me to do so, I even watch my swearing...:innocent:

[Swoop]

Another one could be to put registration numbers on each burqa so you know who's in it!
Good plan. A number plate fixed on with a ramset gun.

[ducatilover]

I do but that beside the point....:rockon:

Its a weird situation at times though...I find that I dont eat in front of them (when working on the same job) not that it should bother me to do so, I even watch my swearing...:innocent:

I do the same :yes: I was brought up as a crazy christian, very similar to the brethren, so I just tone it down instinctively.
Unless i get door knockers, did you know, they don't come back when you answer naked? :innocent:

[007XX]

So what do we call our culture and what cultural etiquette do the have to follow? Maori? Or perhaps some bastardised British, Scottish or Irish thing?

A very good point :yes:

My post was a little too generic, you're quite right. And as much as I don't think we can make a "to the letter" bulletpoint etiquette, we can still have a few criterias of identity, right?

For example, I am enclined to find people from other countries who have been here for some time, and who are still incapable of talking english, more than a little insulting.

I don't really have too big a problem with whatever accoutrement anyone wants to wear, as long as it doesn't go against a law of our country. France made Burqas illegal for that very reason: the French were fed up of having their laws "adapted" to suit immigrants' religious requirements. Maybe there is some lesson here for all nations allowing other nationalities in?

[ducatilover]

A very good point :yes:

My post was a little too generic, you're quite right. And as much as I don't think we can make a "to the letter" bulletpoint etiquette, we can still have a few criterias of identity, right?

For example, I am enclined to find people from other countries who have been here for some time, and who are still incapable of talking english, more than a little insulting.

I don't really have too big a problem with whatever accoutrement anyone wants to wear, as long as it doesn't go against a law of our country. France made Burqas illegal for that very reason: the French were fed up of having their laws "adapted" to suit immigrants' religious requirements. Maybe there is some lesson here for all nations allowing other nationalities in?

Nicely written, I was just hoping to wind someone up :facepalm: I think being able to speak English is very handy, I also get irritated by those who cannot, but, that's their problem. What pisses me off more though is the disgusting vernacular of people my age....the majority of foreigners I have met who speak english have a far better grasp of it than so many young twits. Are they not taught anything in the way of eloquence, let alone grammar these days?
Rant rant rant :crybaby:

[007XX]

Nicely written, I was just hoping to wind someone up :facepalm:

Oups, my bad...Maybe try again? I'll give a running start :bleh:


I think being able to speak English is very handy, I also get irritated by those who cannot, but, that's their problem. What pisses me off more though is the disgusting vernacular of people my age....the majority of foreigners I have met who speak english have a far better grasp of it than so many young twits. Are they not taught anything in the way of eloquence, let alone grammar these days?
Rant rant rant :crybaby:

It's alright...Being born French and having emigrated here 15 years ago, without any command of the english language to start with, I know exactly what you mean.

Guess it may account for why I am such a pedant about it ... BDGOTNZA for the win!!! Lol

[ducatilover]

Oups, my bad...Maybe try again? I'll give a running start :bleh:



It's alright...Being born French and having emigrated here 15 years ago, without any command of the english language to start with, I know exactly what you mean.

Guess it may account for why I am such a pedant about it ... BDGOTNZA for the win!!! Lol
You seem to type it more than well enough, better than the majority of people my age (How is this possible? What's the schooling system doing?)

Anyway we must get back on subject http://www.jtrue.com/cartoons/art/low/burqa.jpg

[007XX]

You seem to type it more than well enough, better than the majority of people my age (How is this possible? What's the schooling system doing?)

The most popular answer is that I'm just a freak... who knows? I like to live in hope that I am just a cunning linguist :shifty:


Anyway we must get back on subject

Yes, yes, indeed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPU6VEYLNKs&feature=related

[ducatilover]

The most popular answer is that I'm just a freak... who knows? I like to live in hope that I am just a cunning linguist :shifty: I like how I always see "cunning linguist" as a double entendre...




Yes, yes, indeed...
That's my day made :rockon: Laughing like a twat now!

[007XX]

I like how I always see "cunning linguist" as a double entendre...


Please don't tell me you *seriously* thought that was a coincidence? I'm hurt...



That's my day made :rockon: Laughing like a twat now!

*takes a bow*...You're welcome! :)

There is a surprising amount of nice tidbits on Youtube if you punch in Burqa.

[ducatilover]

Please don't tell me you *seriously* thought that was a coincidence? I'm hurt... Of course not :innocent:





*takes a bow*...You're welcome! :)

There is a surprising amount of nice tidbits on Youtube if you punch in Burqa.
I might just go destroy my broadband allowance looking at silly rubbish.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The most popular answer is that I'm just a freak... who knows? I like to live in hope that I am just a cunning linguist :shifty:




us too. mmmmhmmmmm

[HenryDorsetCase]

Of course not :innocent:




I might just go destroy my broadband allowance looking at silly rubbish.

Get on it stat! That internet's not going to surf itself you know.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I don't really have too big a problem with whatever accoutrement anyone wants to wear, as long as it doesn't go against a law of our country. France made Burqas illegal for that very reason: the French were fed up of having their laws "adapted" to suit immigrants' religious requirements. Maybe there is some lesson here for all nations allowing other nationalities in?

indded. Not only freedom OF religion, but separation of Church and State, and freedom FROM religion as well.

I do have a dearly held view that all religion is oppression, however.

[Usarka]

Wearing shorts etc, who cares it's not illegal and you can wear what you want as far as I'm concerned. There are no bank rules stating you must not wear shorts (though you're probably not allowed in wearing a gang patch).

The acid test for me is "would you, me, or rangi be allowed to walk around in public in the same attire". I suspect not.



Youtube.....under the burqa

Stink I thought that was going to be pr0n.

[imdying]

The acid test for me is "would you, me, or rangi be allowed to walk around in public in the same attire". I suspect not.Sure you would... that's the great thing about a burqa, nobody knows if it's a muslim woman, you, me, rangi, or all of us at once, underneath it :D

If you tell me you haven't got one (http://www.alhannah.com/islamic_clothing_womens/niqab.html) in your box of tricks, and that you've not used to fuck with people, either you're dead boring, or lying :laugh:

[ducatilover]

Sure you would... that's the great thing about a burqa, nobody knows if it's a muslim woman, you, me, rangi, or all of us at once, underneath it :D

If you tell me you haven't got one (http://www.alhannah.com/islamic_clothing_womens/niqab.html) in your box of tricks, and that you've not used to fuck with people, either you're dead boring, or lying :laugh:

I might have to buy one. What do you think it's like to ride in?

[007XX]

Of course not :innocent:
I might just go destroy my broadband allowance looking at silly rubbish.

At your age, I was too busy chasing live game ;)


us too. mmmmhmmmmm

My, mr HDC... you might make a girl blush, be careful!


indded. Not only freedom OF religion, but separation of Church and State, and freedom FROM religion as well.


I do have a dearly held view that all religion is oppression, however.


Bravo!! Very well said.


Wearing shorts etc, who cares it's not illegal and you can wear what you want as far as I'm concerned. There are no bank rules stating you must not wear shorts (though you're probably not allowed in wearing a gang patch).

The acid test for me is "would you, me, or rangi be allowed to walk around in public in the same attire". I suspect not.




Stink I thought that was going to be pr0n.

[Elysium]

As far as I know, the Burqa is not traditional Islamic custom, in fact they wore less centries ago. Like some people have said, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" Funny how Western customs are not tolorated over there.

[superman]

As far as I know, the Burqa is not traditional Islamic custom, in fact they wore less centries ago. Like some people have said, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" Funny how Western customs are not tolorated over there.

So you think we should behave the same to other cultures as an archaic middle-eastern country?

The Islamic texts tell people to dress modestly.

Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed. [...] (Qur'an 33:58–59)

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimar over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to [...] (Qur'an 24:31)

The Burqa nicely follows these verses... just like not having women priests follows biblical verses for the Catholics.

So pretty much everyone is stupid... but we should allow people to be stupid if it doesn't directly affect us. Seeing a women in a burqa (150 in 45,000 Muslim women in NZ wear one) is rare, and hardly offensive. There are far more pressing matters to worry about than someone's clothing. Should I be offended at Hindu's headgear which could hide a bomb... or Hindu's knives that they carry... or that Hindu's can ride motorcycles without helmets?

[Virago]

...So pretty much everyone is stupid... but we should allow people to be stupid if it doesn't directly affect us. Seeing a women in a burqa (150 in 45,000 Muslim women in NZ wear one) is rare, and hardly offensive. There are far more pressing matters to worry about than someone's clothing...

That's it. Right there.

[Usarka]

So am I allowed to wear a ski mask then?

[Kickaha]

So am I allowed to wear a ski mask then?

Go for it, let us know how you get on with your first visit to a bank

[superman]

So am I allowed to wear a ski mask then?

Start a ski mask wearing religion that has over a billion followers and go for it. :eek:

[MSTRS]

Seeing a women in a burqa (150 in 45,000 Muslim women in NZ wear one) is rare, and hardly offensive.

10 years ago, there were none. How many in another 10 years?
Muslims are not backward about demanding their rights. That is the problem. We all paid for a special chapel (or something) to be built at a ChCh school so they would have somewhere just for their kids to attend a mosque during school. And this in a country that deems it offensive to teach Christian-type stuff in school. Try wearing a symbol of your faith (should you have one), like a cross on a chain, in school and see how long you'll be allowed to keep wearing it. But Muslims are accommodated.
This is already changing how our society operates (and looks). And it's just early days yet.

[superman]

10 years ago, there were none. How many in another 10 years?
Muslims are not backward about demanding their rights. That is the problem. We all paid for a special chapel (or something) to be built at a ChCh school so they would have somewhere just for their kids to attend a mosque during school. And this in a country that deems it offensive to teach Christian-type stuff in school. Try wearing a symbol of your faith (should you have one), like a cross on a chain, in school and see how long you'll be allowed to keep wearing it. But Muslims are accommodated.
This is already changing how our society operates (and looks). And it's just early days yet.

Are you scared that there will be more? Why does it matter if there will be more? :confused:

You are allowed to wear cross on a chain here if it is your religious belief, most schools don't allow jewellery anyway so they don't even have to worry about it. Not being allowed to pray at school? <_< would that be better? And it's a schools decision to build a mosque, universities just have a tiny prayer room which is enough. That school obviously was trying to get in all that Islamic moolah! :laugh: If an Islamic had the choice between the school with a mosque and without you are sorted.

[007XX]

10 years ago, there were none. How many in another 10 years?
Muslims are not backward about demanding their rights. That is the problem. We all paid for a special chapel (or something) to be built at a ChCh school so they would have somewhere just for their kids to attend a mosque during school. And this in a country that deems it offensive to teach Christian-type stuff in school. Try wearing a symbol of your faith (should you have one), like a cross on a chain, in school and see how long you'll be allowed to keep wearing it. But Muslims are accommodated.
This is already changing how our society operates (and looks). And it's just early days yet.

Ok, I'm not hellbent on being the Devil's advocate here, but can only base my view on what I have seen so far in the three different schools my 13 y old has attended in Auckland:

1- Pastoral care is available with parental permission. It is neither offensive nor forced upon anyone. I personally chose to sign my son out of that option, but other parents I know took that option freely and were satisfied with the service provided. An area of the school is adapted for such teachings, with a separate couple of hours a week alloted, over and above the usual curriculum assigned to the whole student body.

2- ANY jewellery other than a watch is not allowed, be it a cross or the star of David or a crescent moon. I'm not sure how you see muslims more accomodated in this situation, sorry. I can link you through to the rules and regulations of those three schools if you wish?

Maybe the school in Napier have a slight mismanagement in that area? :shifty:

[MSTRS]

I am saying that it is early days yet. But the signs are there. And it won't be long before there are demands for laws that 'suit' these people.
NZ does not have the balls to say "If you come here to live, THIS is how it is and will be. If you don't like it, then fuck off back to where you came from".

[MSTRS]

Maybe the school in Napier have a slight mismanagement in that area?

I don't know about that. But there are quite few high schools that have Muslim students and the girls all wear head scarves. That is a visual sign of their faith/culture and I am saying that Christian signs are not allowed. It is a double standard in that respect.

[Usarka]

It is a double standard in that respect.
I completely agree.

Is there any one in the church that has some balls that aren't being sucked by an altar boy that could stir up some shit about this?

[superman]

I am saying that it is early days yet. But the signs are there. And it won't be long before there are demands for laws that 'suit' these people.
NZ does not have the balls to say "If you come here to live, THIS is how it is and will be. If you don't like it, then fuck off back to where you came from".

Because they come from such nice places...

And lots of them are born here New Zealanders now, why encroach upon them? Where will they "fuck off" back to?

[superman]

I don't know about that. But there are quite few high schools that have Muslim students and the girls all wear head scarves. That is a visual sign of their faith/culture and I am saying that Christian signs are not allowed. It is a double standard in that respect.

Their faith requires it though... No Christian thinks that they should be wearing something and if they aren't they are committing sin?

[MSTRS]

Their faith requires it though... No Christian thinks that they should be wearing something and if they aren't they are committing sin?

So? <yguyuguyjg>

[superman]

So? <yguyuguyjg>

So saying they cannot wear them would be like telling Christian kids they have to take lying classes. Or that they must come into school on a Sunday for detention...

[MSTRS]

No. Telling them they can't wear such clothing would be the same as telling a Christian they can't wear a cross.
Allowing one without the other is a double standard, and pandering to a minority. And we know where that leads...

[bogan]

I don't know about that. But there are quite few high schools that have Muslim students and the girls all wear head scarves. That is a visual sign of their faith/culture and I am saying that Christian signs are not allowed. It is a double standard in that respect.

Is that the case in a lot of schools? I always thought Christian signs etc were all good.

[superman]

No. Telling them they can't wear such clothing would be the same as telling a Christian they can't wear a cross.
Allowing one without the other is a double standard, and pandering to a minority. And we know where that leads...

You really don't get it. :no:

Christians do not think they will be in eternal hell fire for not wearing a cross.

Muslims think they will be in eternal hell fire for not wearing modest clothing.

It's very simple...

[superman]

Is that the case in a lot of schools? I always thought Christian signs etc were all good.

I've never heard of Jewish kids being told they cannot wear Kippah's even though lots of schools have their "no hats inside" rule.

[Usarka]

Their faith requires it though... No Christian thinks that they should be wearing something and if they aren't they are committing sin?

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

[superman]

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

That's like saying Christianity doesn't require women not to teach. Anglicans allow it, protestants allow it, Catholics haven't for a long time and are only now beginning to adjust, Jehovah Witnesses definitely don't allow women to become elders..

The verse... 1 Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission: 12. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.

And I have posted previously the verses from the Qur'an that say "modest" dress is required. By far the majority of Islamic women wear a hijab. However some might believe that to still not be modest enough... Religions are very subjective... Just like Jehovah's Witnesses say the bible tells them not to allow blood transfusions, Jews like to mutilate their boys genitals a few days after they are born etc etc.

Again... absolutely stupid things to follow... but it is their right to do so within this country for now. :eek:

[mashman]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

[Usarka]

Again... absolutely stupid things to follow... but it is their right to do so within this country for now. :eek:

I disagree, they are allowed the same rights as me, and i wouldn't get away with it. The "tolerance" is against the law and breaches my human rights.

[superman]

I disagree, they are allowed the same rights as me, and i wouldn't get away with it. The "tolerance" is against the law and breaches my human rights.

You are allowed to believe what you like... How is a women wearing a burqa a breach of your human rights?

Would you say the same seeing one of these which are perfectly legal to wear most public places...242756

[James Deuce]

Five pages in and no one's even tried to point out that a burqa leaves the face uncovered? Those Muslim women have a point about us being ignorant.

You're all talking about a niqab which is the head scarf with the letterbox slot for the eyes. Useful for keeping sand out of your nose and mouth and for shading your eyes while herding goats in a sandstorm.

Not so clever in a bank. Which is one of our customs that the majority are forced to follow. No hoodies, hats, sunglasses, or helmets on in banks. Hoodies are traditional garb so there's precedent for asking a person to remove their niqab.

[Swoop]

Did anyone else see this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10737262) article?

Mask wearers want no part of the West except our privileges.

Even the most reasonable Kiwi will tell you they hate the full-face covering. To hell with the burqa. It has no place here. This is my considered opinion after giving the matter extensive thought. It really is an offensive piece of medieval kit that speaks of medievalism and religious extremism.

Actually, I use the word burqa loosely. Everyone does. The burqa is actually the entire - generally black - covering enshrouding the clothes a woman has underneath it.

And in fact, in the countries where Islam reigns, they tend to have stalled in their development several hundreds of years ago so the general cleanliness of their communities - and by that I mean the dust flying round and the rubbish people discard - and the burqa helps keeps your clothes cleaner for longer. This was my observation in Yemen.

But in this country the burqa seems to be an imprisonment of women. It just seems mad. You know it's about women having to hide themselves. It's nothing to do with Allah, either. It predates the Koran. It just suited the men who adopted the teachings of the Prophet to keep the woman subjugated.

So I'm not actually bothered too much by the burqa. It just looks silly, antiquated, foreign. What bothers people in New Zealand, and what bothered our two bus drivers, was the face mask or niqab.

I don't think we mind too much the head scarf, the hijab, though I'm sure most of us think it silly, in the same way we think Exclusive Brethren women silly with their inevitable covering of the hair. You see head scarf and you know you're looking at bigotry.

No, it's the mask. The scarf wrapped round the head and underneath it, just below the eyes, the niqab. What's more, it is intimidating.

It says: "I am not part of your filthy heathen community. I'm here enjoying all of the privileges the enlightened West can provide, but I don't really approve of you all and have no desire to be part of you. I am happy to be a long way from the atrocities, monstrosities and medievalism of the country I fled, but still, I cannot be part of you."

Culturalism, schmulteralism. Muslim women in this country have to get real. This is where you live, and as the timeless saying puts it, "When in Rome..."

Look, if one of us is going to a Middle Eastern or Muslim country we make sure we take suitable clothes. So New Zealand women will take clothes that cover their body and they'll take a headscarf. We know it. Wear a pair of cut-off jeans in Morocco, for example, and get spat on and mauled by the men. That's what happens. I've seen it.

In our communities, we expect to see the face of the person we are meeting or trading or interacting with. We don't like seeing a face covered. Simple as that. To us it seems deceitful, weird, untrustworthy. Want to get ahead in New Zealand and Australia? Take off your stupid niqabs.

I venture to suggest that even the most reasonable New Zealander - even the most pro-immigration as I am - will tell you they hate the Muslim face mask.

The French, in overwhelming numbers right through their legislative process, banned them in April.

Said Nicolas Sarkozy, "In our country we cannot accept that women can be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity." That says it all, really. And the legislation simply "forbids the concealment of one's face in public". Which is the objection most of us would have here. It ain't right to cover your face. And it ain't right to try and get on a bus with your face covered up because of some old medieval claptrap. It ain't how we do things. It is, as Sarkozy says, all about imprisonment.

By Paul Holmes

[HenryDorsetCase]

So saying they cannot wear them would be like telling Christian kids they have to take lying classes. Or that they must come into school on a Sunday for detention...

bit harsh innit? the poor bastards are already trapped in church by their misguided parents.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?

[Usarka]

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?

To me the criteria for these things is simple:


Is it their free choice?
Does it not hurt anyone else?
Would I or any other NZ'er be allowed to do it?


If yes to all the above (sorry for the double negative) then go for gold.

[Banditbandit]

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

Hmmm ... that's a doubtful position. Islam is no more unified than Christianity .. so the teachings of different schools and sects of Islam varies considerably ...

Here's the most referred to verse from the Koran (Qur'an) to support burqa's ...

"O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle."

Qur'an Surah/Chapter Al-Ahzab Ayah/Verse 59

But it's not a matter of what tghe Koran says - it's a matter of what people belive it says - just as the Christian Bible is interpretable, so is the Koran.

[mashman]

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?

If it was the woman that chose to have it, yes.

[James Deuce]

If it was the woman that chose to have it, yes.

They don't. It's done to children.

[Usarka]

But it's not a matter of what tghe Koran says - it's a matter of what people belive it says - just as the Christian Bible is interpretable, so is the Koran.

Yep agreed. Which takes me back to my OP - Brian Tamaki could interpret the bible as saying people should wear balaclavas.

Would a bunch of Maori's be allowed to walk around town like that?



They don't. It's done to children.

So it's not ok.

Ah I see what you're doing there! But what about circumcisian!!

[James Deuce]

Ah I see what you're doing there! But what about circumcisian!!
Fallen largely out of favour in Western medicine. Usually only done as a medical procedure because the foreskin is restrictive and usually at a much later age than birth.

[mashman]

They don't. It's done to children.

I know. Fuckin disgusting practice.

[Banditbandit]

Yep agreed. Which takes me back to my OP - Brian Tamaki could interpret the bible as saying people should wear balaclavas.

Would a bunch of Maori's be allowed to walk around town like that?



Hmm ... could be an interesting argument ... Can you convince Bishop Tamaki (:facepalm:) to try it?

And if they were in balaclavas how would you know they are Māori ???

[MD]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

Really? Maybe it doesn't threaten you if you have lived such a peaceful sheltered life. Nowadays most of us are aware that the world is full of madmen, mass killers and terrorists. Incidentally the most common garden variety terrorist we hear about these days seems to be of middle eastern origins/beliefs/appearance.

I was living in London in the early 80s when the IRA were active, as in blowing British people up active. I saw first hand bomb damage where people had died weeks earlier. Later I was nearby the burger bar in Oxford Street when a bomb disposal soldier died. I heard the blast, I felt the percussion while sitting in my car. Londoners at that time were SCARED. Warnings all over town, on the tubes to be alert to suspect parcels & people. You looked carefully at strangers. I genuinely was nervous walking near those UK mail boxes because they had been blown up before. The idea of a stanger near you hiding their face, hiding their identity, hiding their expression and any clue as to the nature of the person was unacceptable. You need to see someone to truly judge their character and intent and mood etc. That's a freedom of right we all deserve.

NZers have grown up being able to see each others faces. It's a simple way to tell their mood, tempers, friendliness etc. and makes for a far better interaction. Imagine having a business negotiation where the other person is hiding behind a mask. Unacceptable and yes, intimidating.



...
No, it's the mask. The scarf wrapped round the head and underneath it, just below the eyes, the niqab. What's more, it is intimidating.

It says: "I am not part of your filthy heathen community. I'm here enjoying all of the privileges the enlightened West can provide, but I don't really approve of you all and have no desire to be part of you. I am happy to be a long way from the atrocities, monstrosities and medievalism of the country I fled, but still, I cannot be part of you."

Culturalism, schmulteralism. Muslim women in this country have to get real. This is where you live, and as the timeless saying puts it, "When in Rome..."

Look, if one of us is going to a Middle Eastern or Muslim country we make sure we take suitable clothes. So New Zealand women will take clothes that cover their body and they'll take a headscarf. We know it. Wear a pair of cut-off jeans in Morocco, for example, and get spat on and mauled by the men. That's what happens. I've seen it.

In our communities, we expect to see the face of the person we are meeting or trading or interacting with. We don't like seeing a face covered. Simple as that. To us it seems deceitful, weird, untrustworthy. Want to get ahead in New Zealand and Australia? Take off your stupid niqabs.

I venture to suggest that even the most reasonable New Zealander - even the most pro-

Well said that man.
When I see woman in town covered behind burgas or niqabs it screams "we don't want to associate with you western scum" Oh but we want to live in your western scum society because it's way better than ours at home

[Berries]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

[superman]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

Lol shall we all wolf whistle at them? Doing exactly the opposite of what they are trying to achieve by objectifying them :yes: KEEEEN.

Read Paul Holmes article in the paper... I think he nails it pretty well.

[Brian d marge]

Really? Maybe it doesn't threaten you if you have lived such a peaceful sheltered life. Nowadays most of us are aware that the world is full of madmen, mass killers and terrorists. Incidentally the most common garden variety terrorist we hear about these days seems to be of middle eastern origins/beliefs/appearance.

I was living in London in the early 80s when the IRA were active, as in blowing British people up active. I saw first hand bomb damage where people had died weeks earlier. Later I was nearby the burger bar in Oxford Street when a bomb disposal soldier died. I heard the blast, I felt the percussion while sitting in my car. Londoners at that time were SCARED. Warnings all over town, on the tubes to be alert to suspect parcels & people. You looked carefully at strangers. I genuinely was nervous walking near those UK mail boxes because they had been blown up before. The idea of a stanger near you hiding their face, hiding their identity, hiding their expression and any clue as to the nature of the person was unacceptable. You need to see someone to truly judge their character and intent and mood etc. That's a freedom of right we all deserve.

NZers have grown up being able to see each others faces. It's a simple way to tell their mood, tempers, friendliness etc. and makes for a far better interaction. Imagine having a business negotiation where the other person is hiding behind a mask. Unacceptable and yes, intimidating.



Well said that man.



When I see woman in town covered behind burgas or niqabs it screams "we don't want to associate with you western scum" Oh but we want to live in your western scum society because it's way better than ours at home:facepalm: try living down the road from st Marys Axe , and having half the family from Belfast ,,, ( Rathcoole , for those that know )

and the ones that haven't a clue are white Protestant males ,,,,,,,,, now them I don't want to be associated with , do my head in Big style

Stephen

[Swoop]

Well said that man.
I was surprised to read that from paul holmes. I simply cannot stand the obnoxious little prick. But he has hit the nail quite nicely on the head.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was surprised to read that from paul holmes. I simply cannot stand the obnoxious little prick. But he has hit the nail quite nicely on the head.

exactly what I thought too. I fuckin' hate Paul Holmes (also Paul Henry) but he definitely made sense in that piece.

[HenryDorsetCase]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

Middle eastern women are hot: that olive skin, curvy, long dark hair (only on their heads too: at least on the internets) and the big brown eyes.

Hmmmm. might have to do some more, um, "research" on that topic myself....

[mashman]

Really? Maybe it doesn't threaten you if you have lived such a peaceful sheltered life. Nowadays most of us are aware that the world is full of madmen, mass killers and terrorists. Incidentally the most common garden variety terrorist we hear about these days seems to be of middle eastern origins/beliefs/appearance.


It doesn't threaten me because madmen, mass killers and terrorists don't always wear masks :facepalm:. I've seen the results of war first hand and hope NEVER to see it again thanks. Most of the terrorists I see and hear about these days wear suits and live in the west.

so yes, really. It doesn't mean I won't be wary of people around me wearing masks, but not to the point where I freak out and start to demand that they remove it... I thought stoners were meant to be the paranoid ones :shifty: :lol:... but it isn't gonna make a blind bit of difference if they've got semtex strapped to their waste. So their face being covered really doesn't concern me

[HenryDorsetCase]

It doesn't threaten me because madmen, mass killers and terrorists don't always wear masks :facepalm:. I've seen the results of war first hand and hope NEVER to see it again thanks. Most of the terrorists I see and hear about these days wear suits and live in the west.

so yes, really. It doesn't mean I won't be wary of people around me wearing masks, but not to the point where I freak out and start to demand that they remove it... I thought stoners were meant to be the paranoid ones :shifty: :lol:... but it isn't gonna make a blind bit of difference if they've got semtex strapped to their waste. So their face being covered really doesn't concern me

Niqab plus bikini for the win.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef0120a95b45f1970b-500wi

[Usarka]

Forget the semtex.

http://www.webinapage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cylon-burqa.gif

[HenryDorsetCase]

Forget the semtex.

http://www.webinapage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cylon-burqa.gif

I want that as an avatar!

no idea how though.

[bogan]

I want that as an avatar!

no idea how though.

this one should fit the size requirements....

[mashman]

Niqab plus bikini for the win.

head torch on for the semtex check :shifty:

[MIXONE]

head torch on for the semtex check :shifty:

She must be carrying a bomb, I can see the wick hanging out.:gob:

[Berries]

Now we're talking. This is me and Henry DC on Saturday night.
242859

[Scouse]

I think we should start a "Ban the burqa" march down Queen Street

[superman]

I think we should start a "Ban the burqa" march down Queen Street

I'd be far more willing to go on a "Ban infant genital mutilation" march.

[mashman]

She must be carrying a bomb, I can see the wick hanging out.:gob:

:killingme... I thought that was the pull cable for the light... and it looks like one of the bombs must have gone off too... what a bloody mess :eek5:

[Murray]

"A Saudi Arabian woman reported missing in Auckland yesterday has been found.

Police were concerned for the safety of 18-year-old Malak Faisal Alanaza who has only been in New Zealand for a short time.

The teenager is a recent visitor to New Zealand and speaks little English. According to family members she would have had difficulties in asking for help.

Police had said she was wearing a full veil Muslim veil at the time of her disappearance, with only her eyes showing, and a full black dress.

They appealed for anyone seeing her to contact police.":facepalm::facepalm:

I wonder how many people recognised her and called the police??????