Escape routes -or how to avoid a crash.

[FROSTY]

Ok --so ya have an idea where to put ya bike on the road.You have practiced how to haul ya steed up as fast as possible.
But how are ya gonna avoid it all turning pear shaped??
Planning escape routes is how.
OK lets see how this discussion goes

[Sensei]

"Ride Smart" In that every car will turn & everything may run out in front of you . Skill comes with age & age comes with years .Respect these rules & learn & live long :yes:

[Ixion]

I think this is THE most important survival skill. The one advantage a bike has when it comes to avoiding the hurty experiences is that we can get out of the way.

"Go where the danger ain't" is my philosophy.

I will always try to steer my way out of danger rather than brake. I very very rarely brake hard.

Keep a running list in your head (I actually verbalise mine) ALL THE TIME of where you can go.

"Room to move off to the left. I could go into that driveway. Theres room on my right. No, it's closed up. I'll drop back a bit cos then theres a gap again on my right.If that idiot DOES pull out in front of me I can go behind him on that gravel etc etc etc "

Even if it's not a GOOD escape hole, list it anyway , it may be better than taking a smash. Driving into the ditch is bad, but better than hitting something head on.

Prioritising evasion over braking has saved my life on more occasions than I want to remember .

Thing is , it's not instinctive for someone who learned to drive a car before a bike. I learned first on a bike, and the bikes I learned on, might as well have had no brakes. 5 inch single leading shoe, you'd stop quicker scraping your shoe soles. So I learned by default to try to avoid hitting things by dodging them. I tend not to think of braking when something goes wrong, it's something that I think of only after trying to evade.

So often something's gone lavender in front of me, and instead of trying to brake it out, I've dodged. And watched the car behind me slide past me and smash into whatever I was avoiding.

Always keep a running updated picture of where you can go if you have to. Visualise yourself heading for that shelter, so that if it suddenly blows up in front of you, you instinctively dodge.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, maybe just dodging between lines of traffic. Just anything that gets you where the danger ain't.

This really is a survival technique.

[bugjuice]

good stuff..

one thing I have found myself very wary of, is braking hard behind cars. In heavy traffic, people still do not leave enough room when following. Someone isn't looking, and brakes hard. The car behind brakes a bit harder, the one behind, harder still and so on, til they smack together. You don't want to be in the middle of that. Leave that to the cages.

What I find works is, when you see it happening, brake hard, as normal. The cage behind needs to know that things aren't quite right. Give them all the warning, but move to one of the tyre trenches if poss (in the dry, this will grip more. In the wet, the centre grips more), that way, the car behind isn't totally in the dark about this.

Then when you come up behind the car in front, before you stop, run down the side of the car, as if you're filtering. This way, if the car behind still hasn't got their act together, they aren't going to squash you between the two cars. This also means that you're braking isn't going to out-do the person behind (remember bikes can out-brake most cars with ease).

Then, since the traffic has stopped, you can just slowly continue down the traffic..

I know this isn't directly in line of the thread, but it's always thinking 2 cars ahead in traffic..

As for any other time, don't let it out of your head, and constantly be looking for the 'what if' sinario, cos one day, you might just need it..

[FROSTY]

well we are getting feedback -woohoo

[SixPackBack]

don't really know how i avoid trouble, a sixth sense maybe. have'nt had an accident for fifteen years, but it has to be said i'm a slow rider.

i suppose i have one main rule , i'm invisible on the road

[Motu]

I plan escape routes continously,if there is no possibility of an escape route I'll back off..Overshoot a down hill gravel corner with a 100 metre drop and no guard rail and you are in serious trouble,that's the time I have no escape route planned...and I know I have nothing up my sleeve.Sometimes I ride like a complete idiot - that's not one of them.I've done a few in my time - up driveways,picked it up and gone the otherside of a dividing strip on the wrong side of the road,that very precarious strip of gravel on the edge of the road...up a curb and through a rock garden on a side car.....you can find them,just keep lookin'....

[Motu]

If all is lost - I've been there too...

Here's couple where bailing out saved the day,but I didn't think so at the time.

In our area we had a new road layout,a nice new corner,smooth new tarmac...just inviting you in.I'd been tempted and found this perfect corner tightened dangerously.So a few days later I'm pillion on a mates bike and we are coming into this beautiful corner - and I can tell he's sucked in and going to take it as fast as he can!,I yell in his ear ''it tightens!,it tightens!'' But he just nods his head and pours on the gas! Mid corner and we are in trouble,I can feel him stiffen as he realises he's way too fast and we'll never make it - I feel the Avon GP slip onto the last side rib,I know these tyres well,and that's as far as you can go - so I decide to bail out before we take out the curb,and as I put my weight on the pillion pegs,and the left one is scraping the road,the weight shift somehow turns the bike and we are through! ''How did we do that!'' he yells,I dunno,but I reckon me half pie bailing out did it.

On my XR200 on a wide overgrown fire break I am really honking along in 5th gear,dunno what speed that is,but it's bloody fast off road - under the new growth is a single cow trail rut I can't see...and in a corner I get locked into it,the front wheel can't climb out,I flap the bars both ways,but it's just sliding in the groove.I'm in big trouble,it's going to take me down...and it's going to be messy,and I decide I want to part company with the bike at this stage,go my own way in this little drama.Same again,as I shift my weight to the inside peg to step off...hey,I'm out of the groove and on my way.

Sometimes even giving up is the right move.

[Posh Tourer :P]

I second Ixion's comment. Always look for new ways of getting yourself out of a situation. Literally run through them as you ride. I.e., if he pulls out on me, I can turn into that road/go round the front/back/brake hard etc etc. Make sure you have thought about all these options, including braking, and when and why they would work.

Example, a car pulls out infront of me going straight across the road. Too close to brake, car not far out enough to go behind, and if he panics and stops, I'm into the back of him. Road to the left is a bit tight, with gravel on it. Only option left is to go round the front, and gas it hard to get out of the way, hope he sees me (I'll be in front of him).

I know that sounds like a lot of thinking, and that is the reason why you have to 'practice' your mental responses. If you verbalise all those options when it isnt an emergency (everyday riding - just consider the possibilities), you will have the options to hand, and almost instinctive, when it does come down to it. 'Practice' first, and you will make it automatic to consider all that. And keep looking for new escape routes - try and think laterally. Perhaps a sideswipe onto a rock wall is better than a head-on, or decking the bike better than riding off a cliff....

[placidfemme]

I second Ixion's comment. Always look for new ways of getting yourself out of a situation. Literally run through them as you ride. I.e., if he pulls out on me, I can turn into that road/go round the front/back/brake hard etc etc. Make sure you have thought about all these options, including braking, and when and why they would work.

Example, a car pulls out infront of me going straight across the road. Too close to brake, car not far out enough to go behind, and if he panics and stops, I'm into the back of him. Road to the left is a bit tight, with gravel on it. Only option left is to go round the front, and gas it hard to get out of the way, hope he sees me (I'll be in front of him).

I know that sounds like a lot of thinking, and that is the reason why you have to 'practice' your mental responses. If you verbalise all those options when it isnt an emergency (everyday riding - just consider the possibilities), you will have the options to hand, and almost instinctive, when it does come down to it. 'Practice' first, and you will make it automatic to consider all that. And keep looking for new escape routes - try and think laterally. Perhaps a sideswipe onto a rock wall is better than a head-on, or decking the bike better than riding off a cliff....

So far a lot of great responses from the more experienced riders... which is awesome... As some of you know my partner was hit from behind at a giveway and I will DEFFINATLY be printing this out for her to read...

I try to verbalise my ride and note all the dangers and possible escape routes... but I need a LOT more practice... last week I stopped behind a cage at the traffic lights, was dead in the middle of my lane behind the cage, looked at the lights, changed into nuetral, looked in my mirrors and saw a white holden coming up fast behind with the driver looking to the side and not ahead to where I was... I freaked out and thought "oh shit... what now?" even though I know exactly what to do I froze... luckily he stopped in time...

Now I don't change in nuetral when at the lights... can't make a get-away if your not even in gear...

So thats my tips... when stationary, stay in gear!

[XP@]

If you verbalise all those options when it isnt an emergency (everyday riding - just consider the possibilities), you will have the options to hand, and almost instinctive, when it does come down to it. 'Practice' first, and you will make it automatic to consider all that. And keep looking for new escape routes - try and think laterally. Perhaps a sideswipe onto a rock wall is better than a head-on, or decking the bike better than riding off a cliff....

Verbalising works real well! It seems to help concentrate on possible problems, cornering style and finding escape routes.

Apart from that i try and keep as much space around myself as i can. The less space I have the more I prepare for an emergency (active scan for escape routes and fingers on the levers).

What amazes me is just how many riders sit right up the ass of the car in front, centered on the numberplate. Talk about cutting off your options! if your going to tailgate then at least move to one side and open one escape route.

Just thought... does braking count as an escape route?

[Ixion]

I ... And keep looking for new escape routes - try and think laterally. Perhaps a sideswipe onto a rock wall is better than a head-on, or decking the bike better than riding off a cliff....

Yes, the "lateral" bit is important. You are looking for ESCAPE routes. They may not be "normal". Most bikes can survive an off road excusion without major damage. I once avoided a crash by riding down onto a beach. Another time by riding through a school gate . Remember a bike can usually manage to get up a curb. You may damage your rims, but that's better than being killed.

Hiding behind something else is good. As someone said below , duck between lines of traffic.

I "classify" the options - "Good route, no problems; OK if I have to; Don't want to have to go there but better than a head on". Though not so verbious, just in my mind ticking them off.

And, although it is dangerous (and I accept no responsibility for anyone who plays silly buggers with it) there can be times when the wrong side of the road is a good escape route.Note I did say that one was dangerous. Use with caution.

[mikey]

i try to stay in between the two yellow lines, no car will dare go over the yellow lines.

an cuase im peter pan im not goign to die anyway.

[Lou Girardin]

Escape routes also include the 'path of least pain'. i.e. It's preferable to take to a paddock to escape a head-on. Takes big balls though. Most people tend to freeze with the brakes locked and wait for the bang.

[FROSTY]

planning escape routes as already suggested should be planned well in advance.Even before anything has happened you need to cover eventualities.
Sounds like a lot of work but it actuallly gets to the point you are doin it automaticly.

[Jackrat]

Escape routes also include the 'path of least pain'. i.e. It's preferable to take to a paddock to escape a head-on. Takes big balls though. Most people tend to freeze with the brakes locked and wait for the bang.

That's my main plan of escape as well.
Don't really matter weather I'm on the bike,car,truck,I'm always prepared to go cross country.I reckon just about anything,even the ditch or dirt bank is gonn'a hurt a lot less that the grill of an on coming car.
I've got to the stage that if something goes bad I always look for the gap,an if that gap happens to lead me into the paddock,so be it.

[Jackrat]

he he he,just read Motu's post.Yeah yeah I know!!
Was heading south along Cobham Dr in Hamilton several years ago.
A car full of young drunks come out of one of the side roads,I'm gonn'a hit em' if I don't go somewhere else NOW.
I see a gap in the center strip so go straight through there.Yay I missed them,bummer I'm now on the wrong side of the road looking at on coming traffic.So I just carry on off the road onto the grass an then make my only real mistake,I touch the front brake.
The mate riding behind me reckoned the shower of grass an dirt went ten meters in the air.I had no damage an the bike was pretty typical of me,so a couple of extra bent bits weren't really noticable.
Look for the gap aye!!!

[Racey Rider]

Yes, Escape routes saved my bacon once when early on the learning path.

Just crusing up the Kaimai's on my VF750 one lovely day. 110 odd km/h, a car a fair way ahead of me doing the same speed. I'm enjoying the day,, looking around at the country side (as ya do when your not doing the Ton!), When I look back to the road, we have come up on this milk tanker grinding along at about 50km/h. The car that was a long ways in front of me is now slowed right behind this tanker, and me doing 110 is about to plow into Both of them! :no:

So I hit both brakes, lock up the rear,, but instead of bracsing for impact, my mind is already conditioned to look at the escape route, Not the back of the car. Riding in a good position on the road allowed a crucial second to steer down the side of the car. By the time I slowed to their pace, my front wheel was alongside the cars rear wheel. :shutup: (Good thing I didn't lock up the front or I wouldn't have been able to steer it out of trouble.)

Leason learnt: Ride fast to keep your mind on the road! :yes:

[Posh Tourer :P]

Just thought... does braking count as an escape route?

Of course it does, and it should be considered just as much as everything else. If there is enough distance, then brake, for god's (goodness's??) sake!!


Make sure you have thought about all these options, including braking, and when and why they would work.

Braking should be the second resort, after riding in such a way that you dont have to brake or worse. Only after you consider those, should you consider escape routes, as they are often more dangerous or difficult than staying in your lane and braking.

In an emergency then, the first check is can I stop in time and safely, without (for example) getting hit from behind. Second check, is what we have been discussing. That is the point of Frosty's series of threads.

1. Positioning on the road

2. Brake, brake or maybe break

3. Escape routes

[justsomeguy]

That is the point of Frosty's series of threads.

1. Positioning on the road

2. Brake, brake or maybe break

3. Escape routes

Ah haa......... Can mods please make all these stickies:yes:

That Frosty is a wise fella isn't he :not:

I've always considered escape routes - but never in so much detail... great info here.

[Ixion]

..
Braking should be the second resort, after riding in such a way that you dont have to brake or worse. Only after you consider those, should you consider escape routes, as they are often more dangerous or difficult than staying in your lane and braking.
..

I'm always a bit iffy about hard braking - it can go wrong too.

I think you have to weigh up the hierarchy of braking versus dodging

Braking
Normal braking - just slow down and let the hazard clear
Moderate braking - They're on hardish, but you know that you'll stop in time
Full on braking . You're giving the brakes everything they've got, but you'll probably (you hope) stop in time
Emergency braking. Wheel juddering, back stepping out braking, and you're probably not going to stop before you hit - though at least you'll hit at a low speed
No chance - too close for braking to be worth much


Dodging
Good escape route- just change into the empty lane beside you
OK escape route - Easy turn into a drive or side road, road shoulder etc
Poor escape route - wrong side of road, paddock, over the kerb etc
Lousy escape route - Ditch, bank , still better than a head on
No escape route. Over a cliff, just nowhere to go.

So you compare what braking you'll need versus what dodging you can do

Moderate braking versus poor escape route - go for the brakes
Emergency braking versus OK escape route - dodge

And , of course it may sometimes be both. Brake , then observe that the hazard's opened out and you can dodge behind it.

It's really just a metter of saying all the time "If it turns to shit right now, how do I get out of it in one piece?" : braking, dodging , combination, so long as you can answer the question you'll be OK.

[FROSTY]

Ixion--dude do you NEED to do a track day. Mate Im far from mr rainey or that sorta guy but even braking really really hard Im not doing the judder judder ohh fuck the backs stepping out thing.
I'd suggest that if thats the case you need to get some practice in using all ya brakes. I'd suggest that its best to find out in a practice session under controlled conditions what happens than when the shit hits the fan.
An intersesting point though--My XJ900 has a rear caliper just as big/powerfull as either of the front calipers -actually Its the same as the front. Makes sense from a production line point of view-less parts to supply same pistons etc. but the result is always a rear brake thats really feirce.
My solution to that problem is changing pad compound and reducing the contact area of the pads. (fortunately I have a mate who makes pads for cars.) Net result is a rear brake that holds the bike well on a slope and when stamoped on real hard will lock the rear wheel

[Ixion]

Ixion--dude do you NEED to do a track day. Mate Im far from mr rainey or that sorta guy but even braking really really hard Im not doing the judder judder ohh fuck the backs stepping out thing.
I'd suggest that if thats the case you need to get some practice in using all ya brakes. I'd suggest that its best to find out in a practice session under controlled conditions what happens than when the shit hits the fan.
An intersesting point though--My XJ900 has a rear caliper just as big/powerfull as either of the front calipers -actually Its the same as the front. Makes sense from a production line point of view-less parts to supply same pistons etc. but the result is always a rear brake thats really feirce.
My solution to that problem is changing pad compound and reducing the contact area of the pads. (fortunately I have a mate who makes pads for cars.) Net result is a rear brake that holds the bike well on a slope and when stamoped on real hard will lock the rear wheel

Actually, I don't worry about the back stepping out under braking . In my experience it doesn't really do any harm. Scarey when you're not used to it I suppose, but it seldom has any ill effect. And by that point the weights all on the front and the backs going to provide naff all braking anyway.So I just let it waggle about if it wants too,only gonna happen on a wet or slippery road, anyway. Or on gravel, but that's another matter again.

I concentrate on the front and keep that just below locking point.The judder is from the front wheel, signalling the need to let off a bit. The rear I'll get round to easing off once things have quietened down a bit. In fact I have a bit of a theory (that I would NOT be prepared to defend though) that a sliding rear seems to help keep the front straight.

(All academic on the Whale of course, since they won't lock . It has the back brake the same as the front, too, though only one disk as against two at the front.)

I very rarely have to brake to the max on the road , but a few times a year (or when I get a new bike, or change to a new brand of tyre) I find a deserted factory car park and check out braking (dry and wet) . Mainly just to be sure that everything's still working OK, in case I do need it.

[Pixie]

I'm always a bit iffy about hard braking - it can go wrong too.

I think you have to weigh up the hierarchy of braking versus dodging

Braking
Normal braking - just slow down and let the hazard clear
Moderate braking - They're on hardish, but you know that you'll stop in time
Full on braking . You're giving the brakes everything they've got, but you'll probably (you hope) stop in time
Emergency braking. Wheel juddering, back stepping out braking, and you're probably not going to stop before you hit - though at least you'll hit at a low speed
No chance - too close for braking to be worth much


Dodging
Good escape route- just change into the empty lane beside you
OK escape route - Easy turn into a drive or side road, road shoulder etc
Poor escape route - wrong side of road, paddock, over the kerb etc
Lousy escape route - Ditch, bank , still better than a head on
No escape route. Over a cliff, just nowhere to go.

So you compare what braking you'll need versus what dodging you can do

Moderate braking versus poor escape route - go for the brakes
Emergency braking versus OK escape route - dodge

And , of course it may sometimes be both. Brake , then observe that the hazard's opened out and you can dodge behind it.

It's really just a metter of saying all the time "If it turns to shit right now, how do I get out of it in one piece?" : braking, dodging , combination, so long as you can answer the question you'll be OK.
Too many choices,my brain hurts,I just wanna die :devil2:

[Ixion]

Too many choices,my brain hurts,I just wanna die :devil2:

Actually, I'd take a wager you do it all the time. Any biker who's stayed alive for a number of years does it without thinking about it.

[Deano]

If all else fails and an impact is unavoidable, stand up on the pegs as you hit - pretty hard to do a millisecond before an impact but if you can pull it off it is generally better to go over the object (usually a car) than slam into it.

Similar to Motu's comments about bailing out.

[avgas]

I always ride imagining i have no breaks (or i have lost them), if there isnt an excape route at the speed i ride, i slow down until there is.
The trick is never to rely ON ANYTHING, this includes your own bike and riding skills - not just other drivers.
Ive found from experience that if you trust in something too much - its bound to fail at the most in appropriate time.
But then again, im an engineer who only follows murphy's law.

[XP@]

If all else fails and an impact is unavoidable, stand up on the pegs as you hit - pretty hard to do a millisecond before an impact but if you can pull it off it is generally better to go over the object (usually a car) than slam into it.

Similar to Motu's comments about bailing out.
I was under the imperssion that continuing to stop was perferable to trying to jump.

But there again i have never been in that situation. any more info?

[Deano]

I was under the imperssion that continuing to stop was perferable to trying to jump.

But there again i have never been in that situation. any more info?

Not if you can't stop in time. I'd rather take my chances with a freefall and then hit the ground and roll than hit the side of a car, and come to a 'dead? 'stop.

I read it in a motorcycle beginners pamphlet. Might have been the road code, dunno, too long ago now.