Taxes - what are the best ideas?

[Winston001]

Sod it, gotta go out and its cold as a widows teat. Been chewing over the Capital Gains Tax so any excuse for delay... :D

Ideally we are all born with equal opportunity and make the best of life.

One significant swerve in that ideal is some families are financially better off than others. So even from the womb some children get out of the starting blocks healthier and with better opportunities.

I don't think we can or should try and change that. The best our society can do is raise the chances for children in poorer families.

However beyond that, children grow up and if the family is well off they can - and do - expect a substantial inheiritance. The result is wealth becomes locked up in the hands of people who did not originally create it, but who believe they are entitled.

So...is it time to reintroduce Death Duties? When you die say 30% of your estate is taken in tax. Let your children forge their own paths in life.

[Bald Eagle]

I was never afflicted with the expectation of an inheritance as a right, and thankfully neither are my children.

The most sensible thing to do to encourage effort and growth is to reverse the idiotic secondary tax rate. If you are prepared to work another part time job you should be rewarded with a lower tax rate not a higher one.

This would also mean people on a benefit ( primary income) wouldn't get a tax dis insentive on their part time job ( secodnary tax)

[Big Dave]

So...is it time to reintroduce Death Duties?

A wholesale societal disincentive.
Or you fiddle it so they get it all before you kark it.

[Usarka]

Genetic science fullas have predicted that the first person to live to 1000 could be born in the next 20 years.

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/scientist-sees-aging-cured-4289472

Might be a short term solution lol.

[bogan]

Large hole in the death duties idea would be corporations or trust funds, another loophole for the rich.

The trouble is, other countries have those sort of loopholes too, so while NZ can make things fairer nationally, it may just cause the rich buggers to take it international!

I reckon tax re-distribution is a band-aid solution, creating a stronger economy offers far more benefits. However, the later is a long term plan, and with MMP and me-me-me voters, not one that buys as many votes.

I do very much like the idea of getting rid of the secondary tax.

[mashman]

Ideally we are all born with equal opportunity and make the best of life.

One significant swerve in that ideal is some families are financially better off than others. So even from the womb some children get out of the starting blocks healthier and with better opportunities.

I don't think we can or should try and change that. The best our society can do is raise the chances for children in poorer families.


BULLSHIT! (see below)



Taxes - What Are The Best Ideas?


100% flat tax rate. Everything in the country is free. Sorts the lot out!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Roger Douglas proposed a flat tax rate. IIRC 20% or 25%.

sounds like a plan to me.

[imdying]

100% flat tax rate. Everything in the country is free. Sorts the lot out!Tie it to a productivity index? Don't make the grade, you get culled.

[Latte]

I was never afflicted with the expectation of an inheritance as a right, and thankfully neither are my children.

The most sensible thing to do to encourage effort and growth is to reverse the idiotic secondary tax rate. If you are prepared to work another part time job you should be rewarded with a lower tax rate not a higher one.

This would also mean people on a benefit ( primary income) wouldn't get a tax dis insentive on their part time job ( secodnary tax)

Unfortunately that would lead to people fiddling the system and getting 2 20 hour jobs working in the same place (sitting at the same desk, doing an exceedingly similar job etc).

The idea of secondary tax income being higher is to keep your total tax bill as close as possible to what you should have paid - neither employer knows what the other is paying, so one has to be paying the "higher" tax bracket.

If you end up paying too much tax you can claim it back at the end of the year etc.

[mashman]

Tie it to a productivity index? Don't make the grade, you get culled.

heh, tying it to some form of "index" may not be necessary iffen the education system works properly... Work for a year, take a year off perhaps?

[JimO]

why work hard all your life for your efforts to go to the people who dont work, poor people and uneducated dumb fucks tend to have more children they cant afford, smoke, drink, gamble etc, fuck the poor people

[steve_t]

100% flat tax rate. Everything in the country is free. Sorts the lot out!

Isn't that called Communism? If this comes into effect, I'm gonna stop working :wings:

[Latte]

Isn't that called Communism? If this comes into effect, I'm gonna stop working :wings:

And pick up a couple of free Lambo's and MV Augustas =D

[popelli]

So...is it time to reintroduce Death Duties? When you die say 30% of your estate is taken in tax. Let your children forge their own paths in life.

NO

Taxes are a punishment for hard work enterprise and thrift

Government expenditure is a reward for idleness and laziness

Increasing taxes and govt expenditure is sending the wrong message out, it does not encourage or reward enterprise, it punishes it, conversely lower taxes and less govt spending encourage a vibrant economy that provides more opportunity for everybody

[Gremlin]

why work hard all your life for your efforts to go to the people who dont work, poor people and uneducated dumb fucks tend to have more children they cant afford, smoke, drink, gamble etc, fuck the poor people
wot e sed...

[Oblivion]

why work hard all your life for your efforts to go to the people who dont work, poor people and uneducated dumb fucks tend to have more children they cant afford, smoke, drink, gamble etc, fuck the poor people

Some Arsehats dont deserve the benefit but we end up giving it to them anyway. :bash:

[Winston001]

Increasing taxes and govt expenditure is sending the wrong message out, it does not encourage or reward enterprise, it punishes it, conversely lower taxes and less govt spending encourage a vibrant economy that provides more opportunity for everybody

Of course. You've stated the standard objection to taxation. With which I agree.

Still, taxes have been around for at least 3000 years so you and I just have to suck it up. :confused:

[Winston001]

Large hole in the death duties idea would be corporations or trust funds, another loophole for the rich.



No.

Changes in share ownership of a company are already caught by IRD rules. It would take very little to tighten that even further.

Family Trusts - easy. Tax all distributions of capital at the death duty rate. I can hear the screams of rage but I'm told they already do this in Australia.

[JimO]

how would no income tax but say a 25%gst work??

[Ocean1]

Still, taxes have been around for at least 3000 years so you and I just have to suck it up. :confused:

Go read some on the topic. Taxes as we know them today are a reasonably recent innovation. A mere century ago the vast majority of citizens of the western world paid no tax at all, only the very wealthy contributed.

The British tax act of 1798 applied a progressive rates to income. The rates were 0.08% on income above 60 pounds and 10% on income above 200 pounds.

The American Tax act of 1862 had rates of 3% on income over $600 and 5% on income over $10,000.

In both cases the upper limit applied to very very few people...

It's hardly endemic, in fact most taxes started out as urgent temporary funding, usually to fund wartime excesses.

Lookie: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/history/index.htm


Edit: New Zealand tax as a percentage of GDP in 1880 was 5%.
In 1940 it was 17%.
In 2000 it was 34%.
I believe we're now well over 50%.

[mashman]

Isn't that called Communism? If this comes into effect, I'm gonna stop working :wings:

Oh... is that all it takes to be Communistic? I thought there'd be more to it than that :bleh:

[lb99]

they should flag the gst on locally produced fresh food and hygene products (include meat, seasonal veg, dairy, baking needs, as well as soaps and stuff.

no gst on petrol

all vehicle rego should be by ruc, including acc, so that you only pay for the kms/risk that you use.

Double the gst on imported and unhealthy foods.

put heavy tarrifs on luxury goods, like tvs and stuff to discourage uneccissary financing. (if you only buy a fridge every 10 years then it doesn't matter if you have to pay more for it, say 50%. but it will stop people from buying a new 65" plasma just cause they have finally paid the old one off)

heavy tarrifs on the finance industry, except for first mortgage holders.
(will stop people ticking up stuff they don't need, as well as harvey norman and all tricking people into financing stuff just cause they bored)

flat tax rate for all (say 18%) that way you can choose how much extra tax you pay by deciding what you spend your money on.

Regulate the mortgage model less in favor of the big banks (say if you borrow 200k at 20% then you have to pay back 240k over the set period.) so we can get freehold sooner.

drug testing for beneficiarys.

councils should only concentrate on core services, not property development and stuff (should help keep our rates down)

anything in packaging should have a weight based tax added to cover the cost of disposal

taxes should mostly be based on spending rather than income, that way you can choose how much tax you pay by how you spend.

oh and fonterra an stuff should be nationalised, we are a primary producer but we cant afford to eat properly, thats bullshit.
if the big food exporters like fonterra were forced to supply the domestic market at cost plus a small margin they would hardly notice the difference in profit globally, let them rape the rest of the world after feeding their workers properly.

thats it so far.......

[Winston001]

Go read some on the topic. Taxes as we know them today are a reasonably recent innovation.

C'mon mate, you know me I always source what I say. :D The earliest taxes we know of were in Egypt collected by scribes. Before that, there were "contributions" strong-armed by village leaders and tribal chiefs.

http://www.taxinformation.org/article/tax-basics/tax-history.html

What you mean is income tax on wages which is a modern invention dating from the late 1870s. Prior to that, tolls, stamp duty, import duty, window tax etc ad infinitum was used by kings and parliaments to run the country and take overseas trips to the Holy Land...

[Ocean1]

C'mon mate, you know me I always source what I say.

So you'll know about the many peasant uprisings when taxes historically rose above a few percent.

I'm sharpening my pitchfork as we speak.

[Winston001]

Edit: New Zealand tax as a percentage of GDP in 1880 was 5%.
In 1940 it was 17%.
In 2000 it was 34%.
I believe we're now well over 50%.

Farg, you added stuff.

NZ's total tax take according to the OECD is still at 34.5%. Surprised me too, thought it was much higher. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/the-tax-burden-around-the-developed-world/

[Winston001]

how would no income tax but say a 25%gst work??

Don't know, wondered the same but I suspect it wouldn't be enough.

The Scandinavian countries are usually comparable to us - good standard of living with moderate populations.

Denmark: GST = 25% Company tax = 25% Personal tax 25-60%.

Even Norway which has a ton of oil has similar taxes.

On that basis we are low tax.

[Winston001]

I'm sharpening my pitchfork as we speak.


Double FARG!


A WITCH A WITCH

[Spearfish]

I would add more tax and I would also put a ceiling on the amount that can be earned, in fact if that amount was exceeded by the greedy bastards they should made to publicly apologise, undergo social humiliation by being fingered as an over achiever and be forced to personally hand the money to the most lethargic non participant in life you would ever have the misfortune to meet and apologise profusely for temporarily raising the standard of personal determination to a point that could have created a feeling of inequality.

[oldrider]

Sod it, gotta go out and its cold as a widows teat. Been chewing over the Capital Gains Tax so any excuse for delay... :D

Ideally we are all born with equal opportunity and make the best of life.

One significant swerve in that ideal is some families are financially better off than others. So even from the womb some children get out of the starting blocks healthier and with better opportunities.

I don't think we can or should try and change that. The best our society can do is raise the chances for children in poorer families.

However beyond that, children grow up and if the family is well off they can - and do - expect a substantial inheiritance. The result is wealth becomes locked up in the hands of people who did not originally create it, but who believe they are entitled.

So...is it time to reintroduce Death Duties? When you die say 30% of your estate is taken in tax. Let your children forge their own paths in life.

You know how much tax has increased in this country?

I never had to pay any income tax until I got married in 1964, aged 24!

Taxation has just continued to escalate in every which way possible faster than everything else except the cost of keeping politicians in a job!

Fucking thieves! :2guns:

[Ocean1]

NZ's total tax take according to the OECD is still at 34.5%.

I may be wrong <_< but I think you'll find that's just central government, and probably just income tax based revenue. The correct method of determining how far 'Er Magesties servant's pricks are up your arse is to ask yourself how much of the country's hard-earned passes through their hands.


You know how much tax has increased in this country?

I never had to pay any income tax until I got married in 1964, aged 24!

Taxation has just continued to escalate in every which way possible faster than everything else except the cost of keeping politicians in a job!

Fucking thieves! :2guns:

I found a pay slip a year or so ago, from when I were a nipper. The total deductions were less than 4%. My father paid about the same when he was married, and he had, (as you may well have) access to a government funded interest free loan for his first house.

Social welfare hadn't been invented, see?

[tigertim20]

Sod it, gotta go out and its cold as a widows teat. Been chewing over the Capital Gains Tax so any excuse for delay... :D

Ideally we are all born with equal opportunity and make the best of life.

One significant swerve in that ideal is some families are financially better off than others. So even from the womb some children get out of the starting blocks healthier and with better opportunities.

I don't think we can or should try and change that. The best our society can do is raise the chances for children in poorer families.

However beyond that, children grow up and if the family is well off they can - and do - expect a substantial inheiritance. The result is wealth becomes locked up in the hands of people who did not originally create it, but who believe they are entitled.

So...is it time to reintroduce Death Duties? When you die say 30% of your estate is taken in tax. Let your children forge their own paths in life.

if you could gaurantee that the tax would go towards something usefull, and not toward stuffing the salaries of fucking cunts like nick smith, Id be for it. but we all know that it simply wouldnt go down how the theiving arseholes in Govt promise it will . . .

[Winston001]

I may be wrong <_< but I think you'll find that's just central government, and probably just income tax based revenue. The correct method of determining how far 'Er Magesties servant's pricks are up your arse is to ask yourself how much of the country's hard-earned passes through their hands.



Yeah I wondered about that too but its a question I've been looking at recently and so far all the reports seem to include total tax in the calculations. Income tax, VAT, GST, sales tax, stamp duty etc. Happy to be corrected.




if you could gaurantee that the tax would go towards something usefull, and not toward stuffing the salaries of fucking cunts like nick smith, Id be for it. but we all know that it simply wouldnt go down how the theiving arseholes in Govt promise it will . . .

I agree. Government organisations build in obsolescence and inefficiencies.

However places like Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Norway have far higher taxes than us - and better standards of living. Denmark ranks as the happiest country in the world. With the highest taxes.

Makes ya think...:blink::blink:






Edit: Australia ranked 16, New Zealand 17. Not so bad.

[FJRider]

I can't complain about the current tax system at the moment ... I just got a $1200 refund ... :laugh:

[JimO]

I can't complain about the current tax system at the moment ... I just got a $1200 refund ... :laugh:

hate to break it to ya but thats your money you just got back

[FJRider]

hate to break it to ya but thats your money you just got back

true ... but I got it back ...

[oldrider]

true ... but I got it back ...

Yeh but you only got some of it back, they stole the rest and you are "grateful" FFS .... nothing less than "legalised extortion"!

[FJRider]

Yeh but you only got some of it back, they stole the rest and you are "grateful" FFS .... nothing less than "legalised extortion"!

Nothing more certain than death and taxes ... I guess they felt guilty about taking it off me in the first place ... and gave some back ...

[oldrider]

Nothing more certain than death and taxes ... I guess they felt guilty about taking it off me in the first place ... and gave some back ...

A politician or public servant feeling guilty? ..... :oi-grr: .... never ever in a million years! :no: It's not part of their make up! :shit:

[FJRider]

A politician or public servant feeling guilty? ..... :oi-grr: .... never ever in a million years! :no: It's not part of their make up! :shit:

At least the goverment decided not to waste it ALL on the welfare system ...

[shrub]

I personally think capital gains tax is long overdue - in Australia if you earn a buck you get taxed on it, whereas over here if you earn a buck through working you get taxed, but if you earn a buck through owning something you don't. With capital gains you don't actualy add anything that wasn't there yet you get richer.

As for tax rates, I would rather pay high taxes while earning good money and live in a safe, productive country with a future than pay low taxes in a country where the economy is collapsing, incomes are stagnating or even dropping and social services are degenerating. Earning $100,000 a year and paying 40% tax is better than earning $70,000 a year and paying 15% tax, especially if your 40% tax means roads are better cared for, hospital waiting lists are shorter, unemployment is lower, crime is lower etc (like in the Scandanavian countries).

We have been fed a mantra of tax cuts since the days of Rapernomics and told that the only way to lift productivity is to cut taxes, and tax cuts are best funded by cuts to civil services (called bureaucracy) and to benefits. I'm a little different in that I believe the best way to lift productivity is to make it easier to be more productive. Increase R&D funding so we can develop high value exports instead of relying on milk powder. Encourage private investment in industry instead of rental houses, increase skills by putting more apprentices on the payroll and get the growing 40+ population to gain new and more contemporary skills so we can continue to be a productive part of society for longer (and deal with agism) and subsidise engineering and technology degrees because they're the ones that will be worth big money. And invest in protecting the value of our clean green brand and find better ways to capitalise on it than jetboating or bungy jumping.

I heard an economist on the National radio a while ago who said it was actually cheaper to have tens of thousands of people working for the Ministry of Works and Railways etc doing bugger all for a reasonably low wage than having the same people doing nothing on the dole when you factor in the costs drug and alcohol probllems, crime, mental health etc. Probably some truth there.

[Winston001]

Ok, if we must eventually move to capital taxation, then I don't believe there should be exceptions. That means the sales of our homes are taxed.

The best types of taxation come from simplicity. No exemptions. That way people do not spend time and money constructing ways to avoid the tax.

That is why the NZ GST regime works so well. It is simple - and difficult to avoid.