Getting into racing Part 2: More questions...

[sharp2183]

So just about to have my new NSR250 up an running this coming week after much anguish. I'm going to spend until november toying round with it until I finish uni, but from then I am dead keen to race the thing. So....

Can anyone confirm details for a summer series for F3/Clubmans/another class? I.e. what I could plan for? I know what I need to do bike wise, now just need to know what I have to do to get involved.

And yep I contacted AMCC, but it's the weekend now and Kbers never sleep so I might get more info here!

[sharky]

So just about to have my new NSR250 up an running this coming week after much anguish. I'm going to spend until november toying round with it until I finish uni, but from then I am dead keen to race the thing. So....

Can anyone confirm details for a summer series for F3/Clubmans/another class? I.e. what I could plan for? I know what I need to do bike wise, now just need to know what I have to do to get involved.

And yep I contacted AMCC, but it's the weekend now and Kbers never sleep so I might get more info here!


First round of AMCC is Oct 16 at Hampton Downs. There is an ART day at Pukekohe 2 weeks prior to get your eye in. On an NSR I would just enter F3 and flag Clubmans if I was you. The speed differential between you and a Superbike would not be ideal. PMCC also run their summer series at Taupo/Manfeild. It is a good fun, low key place to start. Dunno about dates for that just yet...

[sharp2183]

First round of AMCC is Oct 16 at Hampton Downs. There is an ART day at Pukekohe 2 weeks prior to get your eye in. On an NSR I would just enter F3 and flag Clubmans if I was you. The speed differential between you and a Superbike would not be ideal. PMCC also run their summer series at Taupo/Manfeild. It is a good fun, low key place to start. Dunno about dates for that just yet...

Gotcha. Is it possible to enter later in the season? I won't be back up to Auckland until November so that could scuttle things straight away...

[steveyb]

The NSR250 is a fantastic place to start racing. It is a shame so few people understand the value of those bikes (NSR, RGV, KR1, TZR, Aprilia RS) anymore for beginner racers.
Ridden and tuned well they are capable of running 1:17 or better around Manfeild, which makes them a really good value way of learning to ride fast on a GP replica bike.

You can enter any race series for only one meeting at a time if you want to.
Check out the clubs websites for dates and entry requirements.

I agree about going the Sportbike(F3) route. Clubmans is a bit of a difficult place to be sometimes with plenty of riders who should really be in Superbike or Supersport classes but don't like getting beaten.

There are more RGV's and NSR's and KR1's coming out of the woodwork at Vic Club meetings this year which is great to see, so you would be in good company. If it is an '89 MC18R5K you can enter in Post Classic junior. You would have to compete against my RS250, but hey that's life ay? I see from your previous post that it is an MC21, so not eligible for Posties, but get into F3 and/Junior racing. Bridgestone do the tyres that you will need, the R003RS. They have the 150-17 rear for the 4.5" rear wheel, which can be hard to find. You can fit a VFR400 front 3.5" wheel straight in there and use the 120-17 tyre, I am not up to speed with who has 110-17 tyres for the 3.0" wheel.

Make sure, and it seems that your are, that you fit new brake pads (racing compounds, I choose SBS dual carbons), chain, and all fluids. You can take the oil pump drive out and block up the oil-feed tubes to the carbs) and run pre-mix which is better on the track. There are heaps of things you can do to the engine and other parts, so this makes the NSR a good bike that can grow with you as your experience and skill levels grow over time and you want more performance. Right now, the best performance mod you can do is BUY TRACK TIME and get out and ride ride ride.

Your next stop should be the suspension shop. The engines are good enough for good laptimes, but the suspensions were all pretty basic at the best of times.

Get into it!!!

[kiwi cowboy]

The NSR250 is a fantastic place to start racing. It is a shame so few people understand the value of those bikes (NSR, RGV, KR1, TZR, Aprilia RS) anymore for beginner racers.
Ridden and tuned well they are capable of running 1:17 or better around Manfeild, which makes them a really good value way of learning to ride fast on a GP replica bike.

You can enter any race series for only one meeting at a time if you want to.
Check out the clubs websites for dates and entry requirements.

I agree about going the Sportbike(F3) route. Clubmans is a bit of a difficult place to be sometimes with plenty of riders who should really be in Superbike or Supersport classes but don't like getting beaten.

There are more RGV's and NSR's and KR1's coming out of the woodwork at Vic Club meetings this year which is great to see, so you would be in good company. If it is an '89 MC18R5K you can enter in Post Classic junior. You would have to compete against my RS250, but hey that's life ay? I see from your previous post that it is an MC21, so not eligible for Posties, but get into F3 and/Junior racing. Bridgestone do the tyres that you will need, the R003RS. They have the 150-17 rear for the 4.5" rear wheel, which can be hard to find. You can fit a VFR400 front 3.5" wheel straight in there and use the 120-17 tyre, I am not up to speed with who has 110-17 tyres for the 3.0" wheel.

Make sure, and it seems that your are, that you fit new brake pads (racing compounds, I choose SBS dual carbons), chain, and all fluids. You can take the oil pump drive out and block up the oil-feed tubes to the carbs) and run pre-mix which is better on the track. There are heaps of things you can do to the engine and other parts, so this makes the NSR a good bike that can grow with you as your experience and skill levels grow over time and you want more performance. Right now, the best performance mod you can do is BUY TRACK TIME and get out and ride ride ride.

Your next stop should be the suspension shop. The engines are good enough for good laptimes, but the suspensions were all pretty basic at the best of times.

Get into it!!!

Bridgestone do the 150-60-17 rear and 110-70-17 front that are for 4.5 rear and 3 inch front BT003RS.
Good sticky tyres too but realy need warmers.

[Shaun]

So just about to have my new NSR250 up an running this coming week after much anguish. I'm going to spend until november toying round with it until I finish uni, but from then I am dead keen to race the thing. So....

Can anyone confirm details for a summer series for F3/Clubmans/another class? I.e. what I could plan for? I know what I need to do bike wise, now just need to know what I have to do to get involved.

And yep I contacted AMCC, but it's the weekend now and Kbers never sleep so I might get more info here!


It sounds like you have thought this through well and actually want to be a fast rider, rather than just ( NO INSULTS INTENDED) a fun race rider? If my interpratation is correct here, I would advise that you enter in the hardest possible level class you can to start, NO point in practising how to go SLOW mate as well as some times in clubmans there really are some clubman who do NOT think for others on the track at times

Good on ya for coming out to play and good luck and enjoy

[sharp2183]

The NSR250 is a fantastic place to start racing. It is a shame so few people understand the value of those bikes (NSR, RGV, KR1, TZR, Aprilia RS) anymore for beginner racers.
Ridden and tuned well they are capable of running 1:17 or better around Manfeild, which makes them a really good value way of learning to ride fast on a GP replica bike.

You can enter any race series for only one meeting at a time if you want to.
Check out the clubs websites for dates and entry requirements.

I agree about going the Sportbike(F3) route. Clubmans is a bit of a difficult place to be sometimes with plenty of riders who should really be in Superbike or Supersport classes but don't like getting beaten.

There are more RGV's and NSR's and KR1's coming out of the woodwork at Vic Club meetings this year which is great to see, so you would be in good company. If it is an '89 MC18R5K you can enter in Post Classic junior. You would have to compete against my RS250, but hey that's life ay? I see from your previous post that it is an MC21, so not eligible for Posties, but get into F3 and/Junior racing. Bridgestone do the tyres that you will need, the R003RS. They have the 150-17 rear for the 4.5" rear wheel, which can be hard to find. You can fit a VFR400 front 3.5" wheel straight in there and use the 120-17 tyre, I am not up to speed with who has 110-17 tyres for the 3.0" wheel.

Make sure, and it seems that your are, that you fit new brake pads (racing compounds, I choose SBS dual carbons), chain, and all fluids. You can take the oil pump drive out and block up the oil-feed tubes to the carbs) and run pre-mix which is better on the track. There are heaps of things you can do to the engine and other parts, so this makes the NSR a good bike that can grow with you as your experience and skill levels grow over time and you want more performance. Right now, the best performance mod you can do is BUY TRACK TIME and get out and ride ride ride.

Your next stop should be the suspension shop. The engines are good enough for good laptimes, but the suspensions were all pretty basic at the best of times.

Get into it!!!

Cheers for the info, thats the kinda stuff I want to know. Yep it is a MC21. Considered an MC18 but on advice went for the newer model. Got myself a spare engine/wheels etc as well so have backup gears for when needed. Also have a spare set of ZXR400 forks that I can have tuned for my bike when I get it set up - good idea or no?

Re. the tyres, can you choose whatever you like? I have some experience with Dunlop GPR-A12s and love them. But if the 003s are better then that would be the way to go...

F3 sounds like the go for me. From all accounts it sounds like a pretty sweet class so I should be suited to it after I pick up some skills. Will have to find out when the classes are being run over this summer. Any track in the mid north island is possible so there should be some options.

Anything else I should know?

[eelracing]

you can enter in Post Classic junior. You would have to compete against my RS250, but hey that's life ay?

Get into it!!!

Don't let Steveyb put you off Sharp...he's bloody crap in the corners,so he needs a GP bike for the straights:shifty:

Check out the pic of him (in typical gusset stretching pose)running wide.
Takes some mug on an RGV to show him the proper line.

Thanks to Pipson for the picture Rd 2 VMCC 2011

[steveyb]

Don't let Steveyb put you off Sharp...he's bloody crap in the corners,so he needs a GP bike for the straights:shifty:

Check out the pic of him (in typical gusset stretching pose)running wide.
Takes some mug on an RGV to show him the proper line.

Thanks to Pipson for the picture Rd 2 VMCC 2011

Oh, you so gonna get the jandal for that!!!

As I recall, very clearly now, I was giving some other old bugger extra room incase his old arms gave up on him while he was trying in vain to outbrake me into the hairpin.
As I also recall, it was the last time you saw me that race!!!!
heheheheheehehehehhe
GP bike helps you go 4 sec a lap faster than the winning FZR1000, but ex team Toth MotoGP 250 Dunlop rain tyres also helps!! Starting from 13th cos the rider is a woussy on Saturday mornings does not help.
But still smoked yo asses!!
Take that.........................

But cereal now....
I have no experience with the recent Dunlop proddy tyres, but I have been using the Bridgestone racing slicks on my RS125s and on the 250 for a couple of years now and the R003RS rear on the 250 and they are all awesome.
If you choose F3 racing class tyres are open, so that means any tyres you like. Later on in the life of 250 proddy riders chose to use slicks, but it can be argued that the bikes suspensions were not really designed for slicks. Modern proddy tyres such as the R003RS are getting very close to the customer slick tyres that we can buy. They are not as good, but are very close. You will need tyrewarmers to make the most of these tyres.

There is really very little difference between the MC18 and the MC21 except for the swingarm and the rear wheel (18" on the MC18). EDIT: Actually after some research there are quite a few differences, but not much in ultimate performance. But as mentioned, MC18 parts might be hard to get now.

There are a few NSR riders on here, so they should be up for some info.

And I totally agree with what Gremlin (Shaun) said. Enter the hardest class you can for your bike and you will progress faster. As he and I said, Clubmans can be a bit of a graveyard sometimes as most of the bikes there are Superbikes and Supersport bikes which go fast down the straights and slow round corners, or are fast everywhere but don't have the balls to enter a race class.

Entering F3 also allows you to modify the bike as you grow. Eventually you can put the 300cc kit in it and have a pretty competitive bike.

Make sure you check the length of the ZXR forks, they might actually be too short, I'm not sure about that. But if they are the right length, it would be good. The brakes are larger dia, the wheel is wider and the forks should be a bit better. But if you do do that, save some money and get a good rear shock and get the forks re-valved by CKT, or even better, buy the valve kit and do it yourself, it is deceptively not difficult. Just bunging stock stuff on is a bit of a waste of time.

[Billy]

There is really very little difference between the MC18 and the MC21 except for the swingarm and the rear wheel (18" on the MC18)

Err,Wrong there Stevey,About the only things the same between the 2 models are,Front wheel and discs and the rear shock.

Do not buy an MC18 unless you know somebody that can rebuild the crank,They seize the mainbearings at an alarming rate and you cant by the parts to rebuild them or even buy a new crank complete,MC21 crank and cases are different.

[sharp2183]

Make sure you check the length of the ZXR forks, they might actually be too short, I'm not sure about that. But if they are the right length, it would be good. The brakes are larger dia, the wheel is wider and the forks should be a bit better. But if you do do that, save some money and get a good rear shock and get the forks re-valved by CKT, or even better, buy the valve kit and do it yourself, it is deceptively not difficult. Just bunging stock stuff on is a bit of a waste of time.

I had thought of getting Robert or Kerry (I'm not biased either way btw, though I do find the competition between the two interesting) to do the forks. But any ideas where I would source a good shock for one of these bikes? Suspension setup is something I have experimented with very little. Mostly because I buy big old heavy Dukes that have a pretty sticker that says 'Ohlins', which must mean perfect suspension straight out of the box right? <_<

But in all seriousness, cost is a major issue so suspension will be done once I have a few more skills. But knowing what steps to take is a good place to start.

Thanks for the push in the F3 direction, the more I hear of it the better it sounds. What is the field like in this class? All pretty close or a massive variation in bike and rider capabilities?

[codgyoleracer]

Thanks for the push in the F3 direction, the more I hear of it the better it sounds. What is the field like in this class? All pretty close or a massive variation in bike and rider capabilities?

There is a big range of machine types and rider skills in F3, but sorta depends on what meeting you plan to attend - the quicker rider/machines tend to be floating around and playing by Tri-Series & nats time. This is not unique to F3 and applies to all the classes in fact.
As Shaun says though - unless you mix it up with the quicker riders , its hard to "learn or entrench" an acceptable / achievable corner speed.
There were some new riders in F3 this year at national level - and the differences in their corner speed/lap times from the start of the season compared to seasons end showed this to be true.
Cheers & see ya out there soon ! Glen

[Dodgy]

Buy an Ohlins shock from Robert Taylor for your MC21 (still a current list item) and while you are there, get him to fix up your forks.

[Sarah311]

Don't let Steveyb put you off Sharp...he's bloody crap in the corners,so he needs a GP bike for the straights:shifty:

Check out the pic of him (in typical gusset stretching pose)running wide.
Takes some mug on an RGV to show him the proper line.

Thanks to Pipson for the picture Rd 2 VMCC 2011

I noticed some mention about suspension, and I'm sure it's all unfortunate camera angle and all - but someone's bike looks just a tiny bit sagged to the tarmac lol!!
:shutup::shutup:

[Sarah311]

So just about to have my new NSR250 up an running this coming week after much anguish. I'm going to spend until november toying round with it until I finish uni, but from then I am dead keen to race the thing. So....

Can anyone confirm details for a summer series for F3/Clubmans/another class? I.e. what I could plan for? I know what I need to do bike wise, now just need to know what I have to do to get involved.

And yep I contacted AMCC, but it's the weekend now and Kbers never sleep so I might get more info here!

Just a note to say - Yay another racer!! Enter what you can, when you can (full or part race series). Go to track days and get some miles under your belt, and have fun!!! Nothing compares...:wings:

[satchriossi]

You can go a long way with the MC21 in terms of making it faster - Steve mentioned the Tyga 300 kit - and if you can find them there are HRC 'TT F3' kit parts available specifically for the MC21. Its all money though. Lots and lots of money...

There's a few fellas running MC21s in the winter series at the moment: Patrick Doohan, Albert Saunders and Jason Daws. Jason's bike definitely runs on slicks and i think Patrick's does too. Jason will most likely race the tri-series again this year so try to find him and check his bike out. It was originally put together by Glenn Mason and is a good example of what modifications to do to your MC21 to make a reliable, quick race bike. I'm pretty sure Dukic did his suspension.

[jellywrestler]

I had thought of getting Robert or Kerry (I'm not biased either way btw, though I do find the competition between the two interesting) to do the forks.
Why don't you get one to do each fork??

[SWERVE]

Why don't you get one to do each fork??

Classic..Spyda...classic:shutup:

[sharp2183]

Thanks for the advice guys. Will definately implement most of it! Not the 'have one do each fork' though sorry!

HOWEVER... had the bike out at the track today for its first run after various work being done etc. Got two sessions in (one at slow pace, one at fairly reasonable revs), and coming out of a corner the bike bogged down and wouldn't accelerate, then proceeded to die.

I can get it running but only on one cylinder (the rear one). The other pops and fires every now and then but pretty much just doesnt go. I suspect it may have partially seized but would like to hear any opinions as to what it could be... And what could have caused it?

Any ideas?

[Shaun]

Thanks for the advice guys. Will definately implement most of it! Not the 'have one do each fork' though sorry!

HOWEVER... had the bike out at the track today for its first run after various work being done etc. Got two sessions in (one at slow pace, one at fairly reasonable revs), and coming out of a corner the bike bogged down and wouldn't accelerate, then proceeded to die.

I can get it running but only on one cylinder (the rear one). The other pops and fires every now and then but pretty much just doesnt go. I suspect it may have partially seized but would like to hear any opinions as to what it could be... And what could have caused it?

Any ideas?



Spark plug CAPS are renound for failure buddy

[Latte]

Start simple, pull the plugs, swap them over (or use new ones if you have). Inspect them 1st for condition etc.

Then pull the exhausts and take a gander at the piston. Easier than carbs at this stage on the nsr (in my opinion),

[Mental Trousers]

... and Jason Daws. Jason's bike definitely runs on slicks and i think Patrick's does too. Jason will most likely race the tri-series again this year so try to find him and check his bike out. It was originally put together by Glenn Mason and is a good example of what modifications to do to your MC21 to make a reliable, quick race bike. I'm pretty sure Dukic did his suspension.

Has he ditched the RS with the RGV motor in it?? (I know the RS is based on the RGV but it isn't exactly the same and the RGV is much more reliable)

[sharp2183]

Spark plug CAPS are renound for failure buddy

Caps are new, as are the plugs. Swapped the plugs and both have spark. Will have to check the piston in daylight.

I'm starting to suspect I have some damage, which would be a real kick in the guts. Partial seizure perhaps?

[Shaun]

Caps are new, as are the plugs. Swapped the plugs and both have spark. Will have to check the piston in daylight.

I'm starting to suspect I have some damage, which would be a real kick in the guts. Partial seizure perhaps?


deffinately a possibility sad to say

[koba]

Caps are new, as are the plugs. Swapped the plugs and both have spark. Will have to check the piston in daylight.

I'm starting to suspect I have some damage, which would be a real kick in the guts. Partial seizure perhaps?

Have a really close look at both plugs. Remember what you see, file it away in your brain and keep doing it. Keep notes, lots of notes.
You will gradually build a knowledge of plug reading among other things.
If it has seized you will likely see signs of it on the plug, but to know what you are looking for it is best to have seen it before.
Best way to check for now is as said above, peer up the exhaust ports and down the plug holes.

You are embarking on a huge learning curve, if you are smart about things and a wee bit lucky it will be hugely rewarding.

[sharp2183]

Have a really close look at both plugs. Remember what you see, file it away in your brain and keep doing it. Keep notes, lots of notes.
You will gradually build a knowledge of plug reading among other things.
If it has seized you will likely see signs of it on the plug, but to know what you are looking for it is best to have seen it before.
Best way to check for now is as said above, peer up the exhaust ports and down the plug holes.

You are embarking on a huge learning curve, if you are smart about things and a wee bit lucky it will be hugely rewarding.

When I first pulled them out both plugs were fairly dry (the front cyl. more than the rear) but yes you're right, I don't know what to look for.

As for the learning experience part, it may sound dumb but that is exactly why I got an old two stoke. Everyone keeps giving me shit but I know so much more now than I did two months ago! Might just continue...

[koba]

When I first pulled them out both plugs were fairly dry (the front cyl. more than the rear) but yes you're right, I don't know what to look for.

As for the learning experience part, it may sound dumb but that is exactly why I got an old two stoke. Everyone keeps giving me shit but I know so much more now than I did two months ago! Might just continue...

Look for a buildup of powdery kind of stuff (I'ts hard to describe).

[sharp2183]

Look for a buildup of powdery kind of stuff (I'ts hard to describe).

Yeah I know what you mean, but no it was fairly clean. They were literally brand new though, run only 40 mins...

[racefactory]

When I first pulled them out both plugs were fairly dry (the front cyl. more than the rear) but yes you're right, I don't know what to look for.

As for the learning experience part, it may sound dumb but that is exactly why I got an old two stoke. Everyone keeps giving me shit but I know so much more now than I did two months ago! Might just continue...

Know what you mean, all those haters and shit stirrers, fuck 'em all. Anyone who is willing to put in the learning and effort to keep a 2 stroke performance machine ticking is to be respected!

[Shaun]

Look for a buildup of powdery kind of stuff (I'ts hard to describe).


with the fuel we have now, it is near on impossible to read plugs as per the old days. As you know reading a plug accurately involves the depth of the ring around the electrode its more than just the colour on them. To teach him how to read them with out more engine failures is near on impossible without showing and explaining first hand what is good and what is bad.

I would focus on finding some one in your area who is prepared to give you some pointers face to face ( THE POSTER not you Koba)

[speights_bud]

You can go a long way with the MC21 in terms of making it faster - Steve mentioned the Tyga 300 kit - and if you can find them there are HRC 'TT F3' kit parts available specifically for the MC21. Its all money though. Lots and lots of money...

There's a few fellas running MC21s in the winter series at the moment: Patrick Doohan, Albert Saunders and Jason Daws. Jason's bike definitely runs on slicks and i think Patrick's does too. Jason will most likely race the tri-series again this year so try to find him and check his bike out. It was originally put together by Glenn Mason and is a good example of what modifications to do to your MC21 to make a reliable, quick race bike. I'm pretty sure Dukic did his suspension.

(Paddy Doohan here) Yep we are running Slicks on the NSR, Michelin's mostly because there were some 2nd hand going cheap and we are too poor to buy dunlops... run in the wet on Michelin's too, about to try out an awesome looking Conti front wet next time it rains thanks to Sketchy (way better cond than the nearly poked one we have!). Suspension is stock as far as i know, although looking into stealing the USD's off the VJ22 parked in the shed. if anyone thinks this is a step backwards im all ears... :)

The NSR's are a great bike to go out and have a spin on, great to see someone else getting 2-stroke fever :D. First time on the bike at taupo i managed to take out 3rd for F3 at the spectacular for the weekend.
Tyler Firn's giving the NSR a ride over the winter series and managed to get a 3rd, 4th and 5th this weekend just gone in F3 at manfeild.

Before we sorted out the gearing which was miles too short for Manfeild, topping out halfway down the straights, but the bike was good for just inside top 10 in F3. It's taken a lot of hours just to get the bike to where it is now, although its totally worth it in the end.

If i were you, i wouldn't worry about spending $$ shock upgrades just yet, i'd swap over the forks you already have to begin with, (check the geometry matches up & give the oils etc a birthday of course) get it running reliably (test days are great for working on this) and get out there in F3 and get a feel for whats going on. then as you progress as a rider (and your bank account does too) you will find the things that need improving most. I know that good suspension etc makes a huge difference to how quick you can lap, but if you don't have a baseline to start on you won't feel how much of a difference the upgrades will make

The biggest set back for us is the Cranks, unless you buy the new MC21 crank out of Aussie (about Aus$900 i think) the only other re-build option is to bring in the main bearings from Greece at about NZ$300 landed i think. This is the reason why we are running MC-21 barrels on a 2nd hand MC16 bottom end. Because we managed to find a spare crank and are broke. However i am looking into the MC21 crank bearing features to see if i can machine the appropriate features into the bearing casings myself. I modified one main bearing for the MC16 last week and it seems to have held up over the weekends racing no problems.

This guy has done a far bit of importing and stuff for his bike (and spending lots of $$ too) you/someone here probably knows who he is.

http://edetuckracing.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00%2B13%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00%2B13%3A00&max-results=12

I believe the last round of the **edit** winter series is at Taupo which is and awesome track for the 250's. We'll be there and feel free to come and chat :woohoo:

[nsrpaul]

. Suspension is stock as far as i know, although looking into stealing the USD's off the VJ22 parked in the shed. if anyone thinks this is a step backwards im all ears... :)

:

it is a backward step unless you are running r model (preload adustable only) nsr forks

the biggest issue tho is the offset on the tripple clamps, the nsr has 35mm, cant remember what the rgv is but its heaps less, so will slow the steering up

unless you get clamps made, but then that money would be better spent with dukic

cheers

paul

[speights_bud]

it is a backward step unless you are running r model (preload adustable only) nsr forks

the biggest issue tho is the offset on the tripple clamps, the nsr has 35mm, cant remember what the rgv is but its heaps less, so will slow the steering up

unless you get clamps made, but then that money would be better spent with dukic

cheers

paul

Yea, figured i'd need to do something like that, haven't even put a measuring stick to the idea of changing. I could make the new clamps myself but can't really be bothered going to the effort at the moment. Although if anyone wants clamps billet machined, or anything else custom machined like that let me know, made some at work for a tz125 Ohlins upgrade a while ago, came out pretty choice.

[steveyb]

Yep, just service the standard suspension and then when $ allow get the forks revalved with an emulator and have a good shock put in the back. Don't go for the Suzuki forks, too much trouble for very little gain.
The NSR 250 in pretty much stock trim is capable of running in the 1:16 or better bracket around Manfeild (in good conditions), so until your rider (who is doing really well by the way) can do that consistently, don't go getting hop-up stuff. Just buy decent rubber, oil etc with the money and get out on the track.
The NSR already has capable suspension, but clearly it is not the best, but as Paddy says, find your baseline first by optimising what you have, then get the good stuff.
Having said that, servicing the forks and putting an emulator and revalve in there is not all that dear. (I am assuming they are damper-rod forks, am I right, I can't remember. If cartidge forks it is even easier to do).
Robbity Bob at CKT has all the info for this.

Oh and by the way, those old codgers at EdeTuck racing are washed up drunks and all they are building are their bald spots and beer guts. Well, maybe not Dave, but Wynton most definitely.
Like myself, 250 Production protagonists from days gone by.
Tuck had one of the scariest moments I have seen on old RGV250: Front straight at Pukekohe, full noise, hit bump, tank slapper, people could hear the tyre screeching as it hit the track on each side of the slapper. He made it round turn 1.
I would have wasted Dave at Paeroa except for a buggered 3rd gear!!!
We were all in the 30min warm-up race at World Superbikes at Manfeild back in the day (along with many of our past champion riders).

[steveyb]

It sounds very much, unfortunately, that you have seized a piston, or at the very least, have stuck or broken rings.
As pointed out, there is no 'no-work' way to diagnose and fix it.
First step, pull the exhaust pipes off and have a look up the hole with a torch. Seized piston will be obvious.
Second step, drain coolant and pull cylinder heads off. Damaged piston will be obvious. If no obvious damage, you then need to pull cylinders to inspect rings.
All of this will require some replacement parts (cylinder head gaskets, base gaskets, piston, rings, maybe cylinder repair and replating).

While being a fan of these bikes, there are stumbling blocks, but this is the case for any bike.

The biggest test needed after reassembly is a leak-down test where you pump up the engine with air to check if there are any leaks. Air leaks kill 2-strokes.

[koba]

We were all in the 30min warm-up race at World Superbikes at Manfeild back in the day (along with many of our past champion riders).
I think I may have been in kindy then, and I thought I was old...

Air leaks kill 2-strokes.
Very True.

[sharp2183]

It sounds very much, unfortunately, that you have seized a piston, or at the very least, have stuck or broken rings.
As pointed out, there is no 'no-work' way to diagnose and fix it.
First step, pull the exhaust pipes off and have a look up the hole with a torch. Seized piston will be obvious.
Second step, drain coolant and pull cylinder heads off. Damaged piston will be obvious. If no obvious damage, you then need to pull cylinders to inspect rings.
All of this will require some replacement parts (cylinder head gaskets, base gaskets, piston, rings, maybe cylinder repair and replating).

While being a fan of these bikes, there are stumbling blocks, but this is the case for any bike.

The biggest test needed after reassembly is a leak-down test where you pump up the engine with air to check if there are any leaks. Air leaks kill 2-strokes.

Have just stripped the cylinder off and the piston is indeed munted. Thought it was all managable until I saw a decent sized crack in the exhaust bridge. So the engine is coming out for the time being, until I can find a replacement front cyl.

On that note, if anyone has such a cylinder I would be interested! Unless anyone knows who repairs these things?

In other newa, can anyone confirrm the type of rear shock that came out standard on the MC21? I suspect I may have inherited a different setup on this bike.

[Deano]

Make sure your numbers are legal and very visible !! :innocent::shutup:

[Latte]

Have just stripped the cylinder off and the piston is indeed munted. Thought it was all managable until I saw a decent sized crack in the exhaust bridge. So the engine is coming out for the time being, until I can find a replacement front cyl.

On that note, if anyone has such a cylinder I would be interested! Unless anyone knows who repairs these things?

In other newa, can anyone confirrm the type of rear shock that came out standard on the MC21? I suspect I may have inherited a different setup on this bike.

Depending on R vs SE/SP you'll either have a showa with no remote reservoir, or a showa with a remote reservoir

[Dodgy]

I have some good barrels and pistons if you are interested - please pm me and I will get in touch

[steveyb]

Only pay him half what he is asking!!! :yes:

www.nzcylinders.com in Ashburton are the local cylinder repairers.
A good job for a reasonable price and using the leading international technology. You need to send a new piston with the cylinder for repair so they get the clearance correct.

Always handy to have a back up cylinder or two.

Now, the hard part, figuring out what went wrong.

Take some good photos of the piston and cylinder and post/send them. Diagnosis maybe possible therefrom.

[sharp2183]

Only pay him half what he is asking!!! :yes:

www.nzcylinders.com in Ashburton are the local cylinder repairers.
A good job for a reasonable price and using the leading international technology. You need to send a new piston with the cylinder for repair so they get the clearance correct.

Always handy to have a back up cylinder or two.

Now, the hard part, figuring out what went wrong.

Take some good photos of the piston and cylinder and post/send them. Diagnosis maybe possible therefrom.


Will do, have got the new gear so just have to get the damn pin out so I can get the piston off (it warped over the pin so it doesn't come out freely). Any ideas there?

Will post pics up as soon as I get it off.

Any ideas how much it will cost to fix?

[eelracing]

Now, the hard part, figuring out what went wrong.



When I first pulled them out both plugs were fairly dry (the front cyl. more than the rear)

That's where i'd be first investigating.





Will do, have got the new gear so just have to get the damn pin out so I can get the piston off (it warped over the pin so it doesn't come out freely). Any ideas there?

Any ideas how much it will cost to fix?

Heat is your friend.

[steveyb]

No heat needed. No hammers either.
You need to build a tool. It consists of a long bolt (or threaded rod is better) that fits through the pin and is about 3 pins long.
A piece of tube that is slightly smaller OD than the pin, but still allows the bolt to pass through, about one pin long.
A piece of tube that has ID larger than the pin to allow it to slide through. about one pin long.
Washer to fit over the larger diameter tube to hold the bolt in place, smaller washer over the end of the smaller diameter tube.
Assemble all this through the pin and then screw the nut onto the bolt pushing the small tube and then the pin out of the piston into the larger tube.
When the pin is out, the whole can be disassembled.
Clear as mud?

Cylinder repairs are $500 + GST as far as I can recall. Welding and reshaping is extra. Remember, you need to send the new piston along with the cylinder and you must remove all of the steel parts: studs, water pipes, RC valve and shaft bearings (which can be a real pain in the ass), dowels.

[cowpoos]

Why don't you get one to do each fork??

because one with work with purpose, with excellent function....and the other one will tell you it will...and then go on to tell you it can drive trains....fly jet aircraft....fight wars in secret armed services...on far away planets...looks good in womans dresses....can grow dope on its pubes....and invented beer!! :drinkup: