Moto Academy NZ - Red Bull MotoGP Rookies Cup selection spot

[steveyb]

Moto Academy NZ has available a postition for a young NZ rider at the Rookies Cup selection 2012 to be held in Spain in early October.

Follow in the footsteps of Nick Cain, Luke Jameson, Avalon Biddle, Jake Lewis and Dan Mettam and go one step further!!

Our position means that the rider does not need to proceed through the regular 'Road to Rookies Cup' pre-selection, although we do complete all of the forms and follow the process.

Riders must be 13-16 but rider who will turn 13 and 17 during the Rookies Cup season will also be considered.

If anyone is interested, visit www.redbullrookiescup.com to check it out and then contact me via here or check out our website www.motoacademy.co.nz.

Steve Bagshaw
Moto Academy NZ

[Matchless-G80]

so if i am 18 in october am i too old? :D

[steveyb]

so if i am 18 in october am i too old? :D

You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too old already :yes:

And unfortunately, even if you were the right age, you are too big. They have quite strict criteria on rider size too as they have neither time nor budget to put together different sized bikes.:shit:

[steveyb]

Bump.

Is there no one interested in this opportunity?

[oyster]

There are hundreds potentially interested in this. The problem is the lack of interest
of our sport's national and club leadership to follow the right steps. For NZ to succeed is simple. Match the Europeans at their own game. This means we need Junior Road Racing at 10-13 years old. We have the rules, bikes and infrastructure all set to go, but no one will get off their butts and support /promote it.
And why doen't anyone get interested? Probably cos it takes hard work, patience and time to take a 10 year old thru to a top racer at 14. It's a fact, at 16 you're "old" in the world context. I think most of what little support in NZ comes from people who want instant results and/or association with someone winning (makes them look good)
Fix that and we'll have plenty of young kiwis on the world stage.

[White trash]

Bump.

Is there no one interested in this opportunity?

I'm keen as a bean mate, just my boy is only three so has a couple of years to go yet.............

[Shaun]

I'm keen as a bean mate, just my boy is only three so has a couple of years to go yet.............



Just tie him down and Stretch him mt

[White trash]

Just tie him down and Stretch him mt

Well he already weighs as much as most of the 125 Jockeys I've seen, so maybe that's a plan.

[oyster]

Yep WT, your young one is a bit young. But seriously, I bet there are a heap of KB'rs out there with 10 / 11 year olds who'd love to give it a go around Taupo, Hampton or Manfeild on a 50. There are 100's if not 1000's doing it off road, with horrendous cost to wallet and bodies. Get them over into Road Racing. You'd only need six and a letter to your club asking for a Training/Young Junior Road Race class. Surely they have as much right as a handful of sidecar riders, and an infinitely better investment for the sport's future. Easy.
This is the South Island way, and all the names Steve mentioned above have benefitted from it.

[Billy]

There are hundreds potentially interested in this. The problem is the lack of interest
of our sport's national and club leadership to follow the right steps. For NZ to succeed is simple. Match the Europeans at their own game. This means we need Junior Road Racing at 10-13 years old. We have the rules, bikes and infrastructure all set to go, but no one will get off their butts and support /promote it.
And why doen't anyone get interested? Probably cos it takes hard work, patience and time to take a 10 year old thru to a top racer at 14. It's a fact, at 16 you're "old" in the world context. I think most of what little support in NZ comes from people who want instant results and/or association with someone winning (makes them look good)
Fix that and we'll have plenty of young kiwis on the world stage.

Couldnt agree more,However its a two way street and for the past 5 years Ive had a number of 150s available for people to dip their toe in so to speak with very limited success,So far this year the only takers have been Tyler Lincoln at the National round at Manfeild and Conor London at rd 3 of the Actrix series,The 8 150s I have are now all for sale as are the Prolite machines as Im sick of banging my head against a brick wall.

[GirrlRacer]

$$$$$costs ??

[steveyb]

Complete sentences work better.

[steveyb]

Ok, so Oyster makes valid points and in our small ways various people are trying to make a difference. Demographics and geographics make things different and difficult for different groups. But the overall point is valid.

But for this opportunity I/we have one spot available, now. It costs money to get to Europe for a few days, about $5k each person all up realistically, less if one can skimp a bit here and there. I hear that Air Asia fares are good. No other costs are involved.
But that aside, the rider that gets selected needs to be a good rider. Riders of the quality and better of Dan Mettam, Avalon Biddle, Jake Lewis etc.
So, what about readers here talking to your local junior coordinators/trainers of road and MX riders to see if the best of them are interested?
We must send a good rider with potential, not necessarily an NZ champion, or no one at all. The latter is looking likely at the moment.

The reason why this is now in the market is that the young rider (and family) we had selected has decided for their own reasons, to pull out. This is disappointing for me of course as I really think he is the type of rider they will be looking for. But it would be them doing it and paying for it, not me, so it is fair enough and of course, their call. Like most NZ families, they do not have a money tree growing in the yard and want to focus instead on racing locally for now.

But Rookies Cup are not looking for national champion riders with 10 years experience, those riders often have bad habits that are hard to break. That is why they look for young riders who just exhibit raw talent.

Anyone who saw Hafiq ride here last summer will know what level of raw speed they are looking for. But even though he had never raced 125GP before, he had already developed really bad habits at only 14 years old from racing step-troughs. Habits that he is finding really difficult to break. This is another reason why getting riders onto real race bikes (125GP) and off streetbikes as soon as possible is very important.

Anyway, I am sort of at a loss to understand why I am not innundated with enquiries really. Not committments necessarily, but enquiries at least, because like it not, the Rookies Cup (and maybe the Junior Development Cup for the WSBK side) is the ONLY way that an NZ rider from NZ will make it to the world championships of this sport at the present time. All the talent in the world will get you nowhere beyond NZ in this sport these days. It has moved on along way from the days of chucking a bike in a van with a mate and hitting the GP circus.

If someone takes the punt to set up a race team in Moto3 or even Moto2 (emminently doable with the new bikes I would now think) or someone moves to Europe to follow the Stoner path, then other avenues will open up. But for now, most of the top riders in 125GP this year and also in Moto2 have come through either Rookies Cup or CEV (Campionato de Espanol de Velocidad) and almost all of the 125 riders have been a part of Rookies Cup in the past 3 years or so.

And if you are selected for Rookies Cup you are almost racing in the Word Championships, for free!!! Same circuits, race days, same crowds, same team managers, same sponsors. It is no coincidence that the riders in 125GP have almost all come through Rookies Cup, RedBull Academy or CEV.

Anyway, it is one of my attempts to do something for the future of the sport. I got off my arse (ample though it is) and dragged myself away from the TV (as hard as that was) to negotiate this with Rookies Cup. It isn't the same as having an actual spot in Rookies Cup itself, but sidesteps the first hurdle. Imagine if a rider did get selected, what milage that would get in NZ and how sweet you would feel. It would be a shame for this to go unused, but I won't suggest a rider who is not up to it.

As you were.

[gixerracer]

Ok, so Oyster makes valid points and in our small ways various people are trying to make a difference. Demographics and geographics make things different and difficult for different groups. But the overall point is valid.

But for this opportunity I/we have one spot available, now. It costs money to get to Europe for a few days, about $5k each person all up realistically, less if one can skimp a bit here and there. I hear that Air Asia fares are good. No other costs are involved.
But that aside, the rider that gets selected needs to be a good rider. Riders of the quality and better of Dan Mettam, Avalon Biddle, Jake Lewis etc.
So, what about readers here talking to your local junior coordinators/trainers of road and MX riders to see if the best of them are interested?
We must send a good rider with potential, not necessarily an NZ champion, or no one at all. The latter is looking likely at the moment.

The reason why this is now in the market is that the young rider (and family) we had selected has decided for their own reasons, to pull out. This is disappointing for me of course as I really think he is the type of rider they will be looking for. But it would be them doing it and paying for it, not me, so it is fair enough and of course, their call. Like most NZ families, they do not have a money tree growing in the yard and want to focus instead on racing locally for now.

But Rookies Cup are not looking for national champion riders with 10 years experience, those riders often have bad habits that are hard to break. That is why they look for young riders who just exhibit raw talent.

Anyone who saw Hafiq ride here last summer will know what level of raw speed they are looking for. But even though he had never raced 125GP before, he had already developed really bad habits at only 14 years old from racing step-troughs. Habits that he is finding really difficult to break. This is another reason why getting riders onto real race bikes (125GP) and off streetbikes as soon as possible is very important.

Anyway, I am sort of at a loss to understand why I am not innundated with enquiries really. Not committments necessarily, but enquiries at least, because like it not, the Rookies Cup (and maybe the Junior Development Cup for the WSBK side) is the ONLY way that an NZ rider from NZ will make it to the world championships of this sport at the present time. All the talent in the world will get you nowhere beyond NZ in this sport these days. It has moved on along way from the days of chucking a bike in a van with a mate and hitting the GP circus.

If someone takes the punt to set up a race team in Moto3 or even Moto2 (emminently doable with the new bikes I would now think) or someone moves to Europe to follow the Stoner path, then other avenues will open up. But for now, most of the top riders in 125GP this year and also in Moto2 have come through either Rookies Cup or CEV (Campionato de Espanol de Velocidad) and almost all of the 125 riders have been a part of Rookies Cup in the past 3 years or so.

And if you are selected for Rookies Cup you are almost racing in the Word Championships, for free!!! Same circuits, race days, same crowds, same team managers, same sponsors. It is no coincidence that the riders in 125GP have almost all come through Rookies Cup, RedBull Academy or CEV.

Anyway, it is one of my attempts to do something for the future of the sport. I got off my arse (ample though it is) and dragged myself away from the TV (as hard as that was) to negotiate this with Rookies Cup. It isn't the same as having an actual spot in Rookies Cup itself, but sidesteps the first hurdle. Imagine if a rider did get selected, what milage that would get in NZ and how sweet you would feel. It would be a shame for this to go unused, but I won't suggest a rider who is not up to it.

As you were.

Probably because you you put it on kiwibiker which is just full of dickheads and wanabees i suspect:innocent::facepalm:

[Dutchee]

Probably because you you put it on kiwibiker which is just full of dickheads and wanabees i suspect:innocent::facepalm:
That sounds so wrong.
If there's so many wanabees on here (can't argue with the dickheads part of it), why the hell aren't they enquiring about the offer?

Put another post in the offroad forum, possibly a lot of those guys don't come in here as road racing ain't their scene.

I know there are some good young dirt riders out there, if you're looking for raw road-riding talent. (yeah, mixing up yours and Choppa's threads a bit). Speedway probably has as well.

It seems dumb to me that you're crying out to help some youngsters, and then they bitch they can't get "sponsorship". Guess it depends on what they consider sponsorship (free bikes, free gear, free everything, plus a $1m payment - dreamers, that's not reality at the level they're riding at).

Hmm, ask Birchy to have a go when he comes home next (Xmas time), he's great with the kids and a lot of the Waitemata kids have grown up idolising him. The Neild boys are great as well. (Just too old and big to be contenders on the world circuit). Damn, those riders are tiny. (Rogan and Tyler, you two need to not grow lol).

Anyway, good luck and I hope your offer doesn't go to waste :)

[steveyb]

Probably because you you put it on kiwibiker which is just full of dickheads and wanabees i suspect:innocent::facepalm:

Yep probably, but the dickheads and wannabees tell two friends and they tell two friends etc etc
I thought the grapevine would get things moving at least.

[oyster]

To get a youngster ready for Red Bull would take a couple of years of good hard close racing with their peers in Streetstock or similar. Dan Mettam made a massive improvement over the SI national ('10) rounds under guidance of Wolf Pack. I have seen this pattern many times with young NZ riders in recent years. The problem is they are starting too late, so this competency comes thru at about age 16 /17.
Yes, maybe convert some little hard charging motocrossers, but I've seen plenty of them as well, and they take about a year. And all this is based on riding around 10 - 15 times a year as a minimum.

The idea they get bad habits in Streetstock is rubbish. They only get bad habits if their is no leadership / coaching

Hafiq coming to NZ was a disgrace. He was a dangerous rider with no idea on what was right. It was sad he crashed out so fast, but in a way it was fortunate he did as he would have inevitably wiped out some other innocent rider. The idea of taking
habitual crashers and taming them is completely wrong. Let's remember two children have died in the USA in recent years on 125's. The risk is too great

The reason there are no takers for Steve's offer is simple, there is no developed feeder group for this elite opportunity. Just plucking an unknown rider out the "cabbage patch" at short notice will never work.

[Billy]

To get a youngster ready for Red Bull would take a couple of years of good hard close racing with their peers in Streetstock or similar. Dan Mettam made a massive improvement over the SI national ('10) rounds under guidance of Wolf Pack. I have seen this pattern many times with young NZ riders in recent years. The problem is they are starting too late, so this competency comes thru at about age 16 /17.
Yes, maybe convert some little hard charging motocrossers, but I've seen plenty of them as well, and they take about a year. And all this is based on riding around 10 - 15 times a year as a minimum.

The idea they get bad habits in Streetstock is rubbish. They only get bad habits if their is no leadership / coaching

Hafiq coming to NZ was a disgrace. He was a dangerous rider with no idea on what was right. It was sad he crashed out so fast, but in a way it was fortunate he did as he would have inevitably wiped out some other innocent rider. The idea of taking
habitual crashers and taming them is completely wrong. Let's remember two children have died in the USA in recent years on 125's. The risk is too great

The reason there are no takers for Steve's offer is simple, there is no developed feeder group for this elite opportunity. Just plucking an unknown rider out the "cabbage patch" at short notice will never work.

Here here,Couldnt have put it better myself,ATLEAST one season at National level in the streetstock class,Anything else is just a waste of everybodys time and money.

[SWERVE]

To get a youngster ready for Red Bull would take a couple of years of good hard close racing with their peers in Streetstock or similar. Dan Mettam made a massive improvement over the SI national ('10) rounds under guidance of Wolf Pack. I have seen this pattern many times with young NZ riders in recent years. The problem is they are starting too late, so this competency comes thru at about age 16 /17.
Yes, maybe convert some little hard charging motocrossers, but I've seen plenty of them as well, and they take about a year. And all this is based on riding around 10 - 15 times a year as a minimum.

The idea they get bad habits in Streetstock is rubbish. They only get bad habits if their is no leadership / coaching

Hafiq coming to NZ was a disgrace. He was a dangerous rider with no idea on what was right. It was sad he crashed out so fast, but in a way it was fortunate he did as he would have inevitably wiped out some other innocent rider. The idea of taking
habitual crashers and taming them is completely wrong. Let's remember two children have died in the USA in recent years on 125's. The risk is too great

The reason there are no takers for Steve's offer is simple, there is no developed feeder group for this elite opportunity. Just plucking an unknown rider out the "cabbage patch" at short notice will never work.

+1 Agree with ya Pete (and i quite often dont):shutup:

[steveyb]

qwerty qwerty

[RobGassit]

There are more than a few legends who haven't even ridden a GP bike Steve. You make it sound like you think racers with only Production Bike experience are unskilled. How about giving an example of a bad habit that a production rider will have according to Mr Clifford?

[steveyb]

qwerty qwerty

[RobGassit]

Fair enough, but perhaps name some of them, from the modern era even from the past eras for that matter.

Slight springs to mind. But he tested at GP and wasn't able to make the step for whatever reason, and some of those were not down to his abilities, which I think personally, were up to it.

The Irish/British road racers also spring to mind, but many of them have ridden 500's around the TT and they are specialists who wouldn't go to GP even if they had the opportunity.

Consider if those names wanted to race at the highest levels and didn't quite make it. Most of the legends that I can think of have raced at the highest level.

Two of the worst habits that racing Production only breeds are poor throttle control and not so great bike set up skills as Production bikes have a wider operational range than GP bikes do.

A great number of the current and past top riders from NZ have raced 250 Production (which is production, but a bit different to the bikes we have now), 125GP, 250GP and 500GP.

No, GP is not the be all and end all, but it is not call the Big Prize for nothing.

I wonder what riders are leading the World Superbike Champs at the moment?
Checa, Biaggi, Melandri, Laverty, Haslam, Guintoli, Haga, Smrz, Corser, Hopkins (not leading, but flying) etc have all raced GP at the highest level. The other current riders are hardly "legends".

Even, God forbid, Foggarty, rode GP bikes!

Oh, and I am not Peters mouthpiece, but he runs Rookies Cup, is part of the selection process, and has a pretty fair record as a GP team manager, don't you agree?

You asked......:yes:


Well I can see how throttle control is not as well learn't on a Proddy with little power. Fair enough. Hence the Flat track/ Dirt riding experience of top racers,Stoner/Hayden. Kenny Roberts can teach you that on an XR100 in a flat paddock though.
Troy Bayliss and Mick Doohan did ok!

[steveyb]

azerty azerty

[RobGassit]

Happy to have convinced you of the virtue of my arguement.
:yes:
Can't imagine Kenny Roberts teaching me or anyone else around here though. It is a pretty exclusive club that gets that treatment, and certainly not on an XR100.
And last time I looked Troy Bayliss learned his road art on 250 Proddy and 250GP bikes and Doohan stepped up to 500GP really quickly.

Yes, but the whole point is they started on Production bikes and developed on larger Production bikes. I can only presume that with some divine intervention they overcame their bad habits. They know how to set up a bike too. And don't look now, but 2 stroke GP bikes are dead and buried, and Diesel pilots unfortunately are the future. You're in danger of being extinct dude. Claiming rule in MOTOGP proddy 1000 engines, MOTO2 600 proddy engines, MOTO3 250 dirt bike engines. It's a whole new world.

And Kenny Roberts snr used Honda XR100's on his training camps. I shit you not.

[steveyb]

azerty azerty

[RobGassit]

I never have argued 2-stroke GP bikes.
I have argued GP bikes.

If you think Rob, that a 1000cc MotoGP bike or a Moto 2 bike is in any way the same (other than having two wheels and the same capacity engine) as a production race bike then you are gravely mistaken. They are NOT proddy engines, based maybe, but it is the bike as a whole that makes the package. Don't see many people racing an engine around the track.

Listen to the comments made by all of the riders who come from Superbike/Supersport onto GP bikes. It is completely another world.

You stirrer, over and out.:blink:

Wooden spoon put away. I apologise for any offence taken by mad ramblings made late at night.

[oyster]

Great thread and a big ups to Steve. I admire your commitment and effort.
The reply was so long Robert Taylor would be proud of it! I won't go on too long, but a few things might be misunderstood..

I spoke to Peter Clifford at Teretonga, He wanted to talk more at Ruapuna but he didn't show. I didn't get the same feedback re Streetstock that you portray. He lives in a world of elite and has a salary (employment contract!) the revolves around sales of an international energy drink. His thinking is sincere re what we are doing, but he can't escape his focus. (Which is not the same as ours)

My comment about Dan is nothing about the bike he sat on, it's all about the 9 days over 3 weeks on 3 circuits being pushed to the limit by 20 other kids on the same gear. Plus proper support / coaching. When I met him in the NI he was getting none of this so that's why I convinced them to come down.

I've ridden, raced and coached on 150's for nearly 10 years, plus seen 100, maybe 200 learn their competencies on them. Many have gone on to NZ title status. They are very good! I stand by my statements! Similar to 20yrs ago when 250Proddy spawned a whole generation of high acheivers, their bikes were just a bit faster and the riders on average a bit older.

Re Hafiq. To say a stepthru is a Streetstock is a bad habit disaster is not quite right....
Read his current Red Bull blogs, he's still crashing like crazy and getting nowhere. Sadly, soon an injury will finish it all. Crazy. I've coached a few like this and they can be "fixed" He was only fleetingly fast because of the "monkey see monkey do " effect where they copy others and ride well beyond the safe boundaries. I've fixed a few of them in my time too.
I spent plenty of time on the Levels banks and on top of the dunnies at Teretonga watching him. I know what I was seeing
Maybe he's following the Marc Marquez bin it or win route. And it's working for Marc for sure. But it's hell of risk and I sure wouldn't be comfortable with encouraging it. See my earlier statement about the two children killed in the USA. I met one of these in New Hampshire and he impressed me so much. So it shocked me

You are right, I am wrong. Yes you might find another Arthur Sissis in NZ but it needs proper promotion and recruitment

[gav]

I never have argued 2-stroke GP bikes.
I have argued GP bikes.

You can read into what I write whatever you want. Bayliss raced 250GP in Australia before anyone had heard of him on Superbike Doohan learned most of his skill on the 500, his superbike career was very short.

Huh? Troy Bayliss rode 1 250GP race as a wild card, when he was a Suzuki Superbike rider in Aus. He started racing on a ZXR750, before getting onto a 250 Proddy then a 600.
Mick Doohan started out on Proddy bikes, TZR250 and a RZ500 before riding a four stroke Superbike in Oz, he raced as a wildcard in some WSBK rounds and these results got him a ride on a GP500.
John Hopkins (who you mention) went from racing four stroke proddy based bikes in the States onto a RedBull YZR500.
The thing all these guys had in common is they grew up riding on dirt, and learnt throttle control, balance etc there.
And yes Kenny Roberts has always used XR100's in his training camps, including Jorge Lorenzo not so long ago.
Alot of the young Italians etc started out on minimotos, probably alot less tuning etc available on them than a Streetstock bike?
Hmmm, wonder how many laps Ben Spies has done on a 125GP bike? :shutup: