Coroner wants HI-VIZ to be compulsory on bikes

[davereid]

The coroner wants cyclists to have to wear hi-viz gear, but cycling advocates dont want it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/5324738/High-visibility-gear-for-cyclists-unwanted

To the surprise of a coroner and the "Helmet Lady", a cycling advocacy network has spoken out against making it compulsory for cyclists to wear high-visibility clothing.

At a coroner's hearing in Palmerston North yesterday, Cycling Advocates Network project manager Patrick Morgan urged coroner Gordon Matenga not to recommend such clothing be mandatory for cyclists because it could put them off the pursuit.

The coroner is travelling around New Zealand investigating the recent deaths of cyclists.

"Some people have a personal preference that they don't want to dress in that manner, and we need to be really cautious about anything that makes it seem dorky or un-cool," Mr Morgan said. "It also sends a message that cycling is a lot more dangerous than it actually is."

Other countries where cycling was more common hadn't introduced such laws, nor had they made helmets compulsory, as New Zealand did in 1994, he said.

The coroner said he was surprised by those remarks, as was Palmerston North's Rebecca Oaten, whose son Aaron was severely brain-damaged when he was knocked off his bike in 1986. He was not wearing a helmet. She cared for him until he died last year, aged 37.

Between 1986 and 1992 she visited schools throughout New Zealand to advocate the importance of wearing cycle helmets.

Mrs Oaten had no problem if people weren't inclined to bike because they didn't like wearing helmets or high-visibility vests. "Probably, that would mean fewer people brain-damaged."

And if cyclists were more visible because of their clothing, it was more likely drivers would avoid them, she told the Manawatu Standard.

And while Mr Morgan said few countries were following New Zealand's lead for compulsion, Massey University resource and environmental planning lecturer Imran Muhammad said cycling conditions in New Zealand were different. In countries such as Denmark and Germany, cyclists weren't required to wear either helmets or high-visibility gear, but had dedicated lanes and priority traffic lights.

[oneofsix]

Mrs Oaten had no problem if people weren't inclined to bike because they didn't like wearing helmets or high-visibility vests. "Probably, that would mean fewer people brain-damaged."

Now doesn't that read like someone who has lost the view of the forest. She is so wrapped up in preventing the injury to her son via proxy that she has lost sight of cycling as a greater issue.

[bogan]

Now doesn't that read like someone who has lost the view of the forest. She is so wrapped up in preventing the injury to her son via proxy that she has lost sight of cycling as a greater issue.

Which is of course understandable, however the decision makers can't afford to be swayed by only their first hand experiences of what can go wrong.

It seems when it comes to high vis, people assume easier to see, equals more often seen. But if the person who should be doing the seeing, isn't bothering to look, it's not gonna do shit is it?
And pedlies don't often come out of nowhere...

[imdying]

Great, another retard wanting to tell us what to do. It was her fault her boy was brain damaged... maybe she should fuck off and get some parenting lessons.

[willytheekid]

Maybe cyclist should have compulsory "Road rider Training"?.

Everytime motorcycle accidents peek...we get targeted, everytime truck accidents peek...they get targeted, same for cars...but when bike riders start dying left & right...WE ALL get targeted! and told the blame is ours!....never the cyclists fault!

Even tho we all regulary see cyclists riding illegally (4 abreast, on the footpath, or just riding like tools!), if they are going to use the roads with the rest of us, shouldnt they have the training to do so safely?
Example, the cyclist in Auck that swerved to miss a car door opening, on one of the busiest roads in the area (And there where 3 other less congested road options to take), and ended up under a truck and dead!....and now the car driver is being done for manslaughter.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when im going past a parked car closely due to a narrow road etc...I check to see if theres someone inside, and either slow down or position myself properly...just in case!......and what do ya know...learnt to do so through a rider training course.

Firmly believe cyclist are there OWN worst enemys.

[avgas]

Mrs Oaten had no problem if people weren't inclined to bike because they didn't like wearing helmets or high-visibility vests. "Probably, that would mean fewer people brain-damaged."

Riding a couple of kg's of frame with super skinny tyres on a road (with lumbering vehicles that travel 100km/h) with no physical protection.

Sorry luv they are brain damaged before they even get on the bike.

[Thaeos]

I don't see why cyclists are allowed to ride on the road in the first place. Would there not be less danger for them and everyone else if they stuck to the footpath? What about pedestrians using the footpath.. well if a cyclist collides with a pedestrian it wouldn't be as bad as a car vs cyclist.

[maxlev]

I used to own an ex cop BMW, still painted white, headlight on.
Over the 160,000 km I did on it, people still pulled out in front of me, just as often as other bikes I've owned.
A Hi Viz jacket would have made no diff whatsoever.
If they don't look, they will see nowt.

[Woodman]

And they should not be able to have races on open, unclosed roads. Fuck me they were having one here the other night, yes night time in the dark with their crappy lights. I bloody near took one out when he pulled out into my lane to pass the bunch.

[Blackshear]

I used to own an ex cop BMW, still painted white, headlight on.
Over the 160,000 km I did on it, people still pulled out in front of me, just as often as other bikes I've owned.
A Hi Viz jacket would have made no diff whatsoever.
If they don't look, they will see nowt.

They can even look you in the eye and not see you a split second later.

Goes for everyone I guess though.

[Big Col]

Avgas has the correct answer.I can only agree.

[DrunkenMistake]

And they should not be able to have races on open, unclosed roads. Fuck me they were having one here the other night, yes night time in the dark with their crappy lights. I bloody near took one out when he pulled out into my lane to pass the bunch.

I almost killed one this morning, I live down a coastal road luckily in the morning its all one way traffic, To town, came round one of the blind bends (this is 6:30 this morning) in a 70 area, doing spot on 70, seen one cyclist with a light on the back of his bike and a hi vis vest, continued past him on the other lane and then pulled into the correct lane, and then the next thing I know, I almost boll into another fucking cunt wearing dark blue lycra with no lights and no hi vis, Didnt even see him, he was a little further a head of the first cyclist, he just blended in with the rock face and bush.

Edit: there are no street lights, and my high beams were on.

[tigertim20]

Im all for cyclists wearing High Vis, it means I can see the fuckers from further away, and line them up.

[DrunkenMistake]

Im all for cyclists wearing High Vis, it means I can see the fuckers from further away, and line them up.

Iv seen your cage driving.. youd hit them anyway..


In saying that my misses has almost killed a few, and you have seen how shocking her driving is.. :facepalm::facepalm: SHES NOT ALLOWED A BIKE haha

[jazfender]

Cycling doesn't need hi-vi's to be dorky and un-cool.

[dogsnbikes]

making it compulsory for cyclists to wear high-visibility clothing would cause emotional harm too the push bike fatties when they suddenly relise the resemble the back end of a Porter's heavy transport truck...oppps my mistake a truck takes up less lane lane space:innocent:

[marty]

I, and most of my Ironman training buddies would love to have a dedicated off-road training track. We are utilising the Karapiro cycleway at night - 6kms each way so 5 laps of that is 60k. Taupo's cycle track is a popular place to spend an afternoon. We're doing a lot more MTB work - the Hamilton river paths and Arapuni cycleway is seeing a lot of mileage, but at some stage we'll have to transit onto the road to do the big rides (hence the increase in deaths & accidents around Sept-Oct with the Round Taupo ride looming)

I often ride home from work at 9pm - 25k of country roads. Always wear hi-viz. And have 3 x rear lights, and ankle reflectors

Next toy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDjQr5IqBr4&feature=player_embedded#at=107

[george formby]

Riding a couple of kg's of frame with super skinny tyres on a road (with lumbering vehicles that travel 100km/h) with no physical protection.

Sorry luv they are brain damaged before they even get on the bike.

That is pretty much what was stated by one of the worlds leading road safety experts recently. It's physics, accidents will happen & as we all know, without a cage we are supremely vulnerable.
You ride, you take responsibility. End of story.

[scumdog]

Riding a couple of kg's of frame with super skinny tyres on a road (with lumbering vehicles that travel 100km/h) with no physical protection.

Sorry luv they are brain damaged before they even get on the bike.

Hmmm...wouldn't take too many changes to that comment to make it suit motorcyclists...<_<

[Kickaha]

Firmly believe cyclist are there OWN worst enemys.
That comment could equally apply to motorcyclists



Sorry luv they are brain damaged before they even get on the bike.

Heard the same said about Motorcyclists


You ride, you take responsibility. End of story.
Pity some motorcyclists wouldn't learn that lesson

Hi Viz for cyclists today and Motorcyclists tomorrow

[jazfender]

Motorcycles aren't dorky or un-cool though.

Nyah.

[scumdog]

Motorcycles aren't dorky or un-cool though.

Nyah.


Oh yes, there are throngs & hoards of members of the public lining the streets chanting just that... :yes:<_<:rolleyes:

[jazfender]

Oh yes, there are throngs & hoards of members of the public lining the streets chanting just that... :yes:<_<:rolleyes:

Nyah nyah.

[scissorhands]

Both donorcyclists.... need more spare parts anyways

At least the cyclists body parts will be in healthy condition, whats left of them

[george formby]

Every time the cyclists hit the news I feel we as bikers have more in common with them than not from a safety perspective. They also seem to be very good at lobbying & getting media attention. As stated with the hi viz issue, what affects them will ultimately affect us & vice versa.

[oldrider]

Earthquakes like in Christchurch are dangerous, people get killed and maimed, will it be "compulsory" for citizens to wear helmets and Hi-Viz clothing at all times when in Christchurch?

These bloody do gooders get sillier and sillier FFS! :yes:

[scumdog]

Earthquakes like in Christchurch are dangerous, people get killed and maimed, will it be "compulsory" for citizens to wear helmets and Hi-Viz clothing at all times when in Christchurch?

These bloody do gooders get sillier and sillier FFS! :yes:

Next thing 'they' will want us to drive on the one side of the road...

[george formby]

Next thing 'they' will want us to drive on the one side of the road...

:shit: Never happen.

[Berries]

Hi Viz for cyclists today and Motorcyclists tomorrow
+1. Be careful what you wish for.

They are still a bunch of lycra wearing twats though.

[Swoop]

Note to cyclists: Your little headlight does not put out too much of a beam. If you choose to cycle across a pedestrian crossing at night in a dark place with dark surroundings, (without any reflectors or additional lighting) then your little light is invisible whilst at 90 degrees to the traffic on the road. It is better to walk your bike across the crossing.

[JimO]

i would like them to stop at red lights and ride in the cycle lane if there is one there

[Kickaha]

i would like them to stop at red lights and ride in the cycle lane if there is one there

I would like World peace and an end to poverty but there's fuck all chance of that happening either

[nzspokes]

Note to cyclists: Your little headlight does not put out too much of a beam. If you choose to cycle across a pedestrian crossing at night in a dark place with dark surroundings, (without any reflectors or additional lighting) then your little light is invisible whilst at 90 degrees to the traffic on the road. It is better to walk your bike across the crossing.

My cycling headlight is more powerfull than my motorcycle one. And gets close to my cars headlights.

[nzspokes]

Example, the cyclist in Auck that swerved to miss a car door opening, on one of the busiest roads in the area (And there where 3 other less congested road options to take), and ended up under a truck and dead!....and now the car driver is being done for manslaughter.
I don't know about the rest of you, but when im going past a parked car closely due to a narrow road etc...I check to see if theres someone inside, and either slow down or position myself properly...just in case!......and what do ya know...learnt to do so through a rider training course.

Firmly believe cyclist are there OWN worst enemys.

I was there just after that incident. I had just bought my new car and was on the way home. There is way more to that than it being the cyclists fault.

Its funny how the council changed the lane marking the week following it. Week to late for the lady.

[Kickaha]

I was there just after that incident. I had just bought my new car and was on the way home. There is way more to that than it being the cyclists fault.

The cyclist wasn't at fault, the car driver opened the door without checking was, pity it wasn't a car or the truck taking the fucking thing off at the hinges

[Smifffy]

I don't see why cyclists are allowed to ride on the road in the first place. Would there not be less danger for them and everyone else if they stuck to the footpath? What about pedestrians using the footpath.. well if a cyclist collides with a pedestrian it wouldn't be as bad as a car vs cyclist.

Yeah!

Then when enough pedestrians get hit TPTB can press for mandatory hi-vis for pedestrians too.

We should all be wearing hi vis all the time for everything.

Then when we all have our standards compliant hi-vis on then the roadworkers and emergency services etc will need to get something else to stand out from the crowd.

[BMWST?]

in wellington pedestrians are more dangerous than cyclists

[nzspokes]

The cyclist wasn't at fault, the car driver opened the door without checking was, pity it was a car or the truck taking the fucking thing off at the hinges

Agreed. People go on about her not using the cycleway there. Its blocked most of the time there with tourists getting off parked busses on that side of the road. And there was very poorly placed parking to. Was very sad. Felt for the ladies family and the truck driver to.

[Berries]

We should all be wearing hi vis all the time for everything.Compulsory turmeric in our bread the same way they did iodine should get the result. Side affects would include no hiding in dark alleyways so less burglary, no need for lights on your bike, Auckland may just cope next time it has a power cut, less stubbing of toes when you are walking round the house in the dark, fuck, I might be on to something here..............who's the Minister ?

[avgas]

Heard the same said about Motorcyclists
Too true.
Put turns out we have had to pay for our crimes against safety.

The only way the cyclist seem to do this currently is by decreasing their numbers and improving the gene pool.

[Usarka]

Hmmm...wouldn't take too many changes to that comment to make it suit motorcyclists...<_<

A lot of comments about cyclists apply to us. I always find it amusing when KB gets all anti-cyclist.


i would like them to stop at red lights and

Why? The message about hi-vis being compulsory is that cyclists need to take responsibility for car drivers hitting them. It's often a lot safer to jump a red on a pushy than to be part of the race start from the lights especially on multi-lane roads.

[Usarka]

Hi-vis isn't appropriate all the time.

I failed to see a yellow ford falcon yesterday. There was some glare, I looked left, looked right, looked left again and fuck me I hadn't seen it the first time.

[Indiana_Jones]

The message about hi-vis being compulsory is that cyclists need to take responsibility for car drivers hitting them.

This is the part I hate. It's not the useless cage drivers fault, it's your fault cause they didn't see you.

If they wanna make one road user wear a hi-vi, make them all wear them, cage cunts included.

-Indy

[scumdog]

This is the part I hate. It's not the useless cage drivers fault, it's your fault cause they didn't see you.

If they wanna make one road user wear a hi-vi, make them all wear them, cage cunts included.

-Indy

Next thing some cop somewhere will tell women not to wear scanty-tarty clohting in case it makes them the target of some sexual attack.......<_<:shifty:

[FJRider]

This is the part I hate. It's not the useless cage drivers fault, it's your fault cause they didn't see you.

If they wanna make one road user wear a hi-vi, make them all wear them, cage cunts included.

-Indy

I would say it comes under the heading of personal responsibility ...

The assumption that people MUST see you is ... the mother of all fucked-up assumptions ...

The assumption that they Don't ... WON'T ... and AREN'T EVEN LOOKING ... is a good place to start your thinking ... you MAY live longer ...

It IS YOUR right to die being "in the right" ... fault in such cases is irrelevant ...

[Usarka]

I don't like that argument because it removes the responsibility from the guilty party.

Sure, take steps for keeping yourself safe, but legislation should be aimed at the offenders, not at the victims.

[marty]

BTW - if anyone wants a liteweight yellow zip-front vest, I have a few spare ones to give away (second hand) here - PM if you want one

[FJRider]

I don't like that argument because it removes the responsibility from the guilty party.

Sure, take steps for keeping yourself safe, but legislation should be aimed at the offenders, not at the victims.

AND ... POTENTIAL victims do no feature .... ??? the ONE life saved ... COULD be yours ...

IS WHO IS guilty ... more important than who has died ... ???

[Indiana_Jones]

The assumption that people MUST see you is ... the mother of all fucked-up assumptions ...


Agreed. Treat everyone else on the road as a tool. But having laws and the media blame the victim is another matter.

-Indy

[FJRider]

Agreed. Treat everyone else on the road as a tool. But having laws and the media blame the victim is another matter.

-Indy

POTENTIAL victim ...