Norway tragedy

[jazfender]

The news coming out of Norway right now is unreal.

Such horrific, terrible stuff.

Rest in peace, young Norwegians.

[nadroj]

and Kiwi........

[Paul in NZ]

Freakin nutbags everywhere wanting to kill everyone for what????

[short-circuit]

Freakin nutbags everywhere wanting to kill everyone for what????

Usually always right wing extremists - not sure what their buzz is

[mashman]

Freakin nutbags everywhere wanting to kill everyone for what????

probably something trivial like leaving the toilet seat up. Can't imagine that a group of people would go to such lengths for any sane reason :shifty:

[scumdog]

Bizarre this one, killed way more than your average nutso shooter does and was taken into custody.:wacko::weird:

[Paul in NZ]

Bizarre this one, killed way more than your average nutso shooter does and was taken into custody.:wacko::weird:

Shit yes, I was thinking that too.... Thats going to provide a bit of a problem for their judicial system.

[Hans]

Usually always right wing extremists - not sure what their buzz is

You want to ask the Red Brigades about that. As usual. Typical fucking communist distorting reality to suit agendas...

[short-circuit]

You want to ask the Red Brigades about that. As usual. Typical fucking communist distorting reality to suit agendas...

It's a fact - these types of attcks are almost always carried out by lone, white, hard right wing losers. Unsurprisingly the news media immediately made the assumption that it was a Muslim terrorist attack.

Not sure what you think my "agenda" might be - it was just an observation :innocent:

[short-circuit]

Interesting:

http://mondediplo.com/openpage/extremist-killing-is-as-american-as-apple-pie

[blue rider]

Bizarre this one, killed way more than your average nutso shooter does and was taken into custody.:wacko::weird:

according to the news from friends in europe, he ran out of bullets, and did not put up much of a fight after that when the police came to take him away.
Suicide by cop is not what he is after, in neo-nazi/fascist/white supremacists groups in europe he is currently DA MAN....

supposedly the shooter is also responsible for the bombing of the offices of the prime minister - Labour Party and the summer camp was a gathering of Labour Party youth.
it appears that the killer did not approve of his current government.
he did identify himself as a conservative christian.

Most likely he will receive somewhere up to 20- 27 years, which in my opinion is not enough. They should hand him over to the parents of the killed youngsters....

89 dead, and 4 still missing, they are searching the lake, some got killed while trying to swim to the mainland

[scumdog]

Interesting:

http://mondediplo.com/openpage/extremist-killing-is-as-american-as-apple-pie

Propaganda?

And possibly the reason the honky nutsos aren't labelled 'terrorists' is because they are individuals in most cases and not part of a group.

A quote from 'about' on that site...
"the real stories, reliable research and an independent viewpoint"

I don't think so..:nono:

[HenryDorsetCase]

He was described as a Christian Fundamentalist in something I read or heard.

Mentalist is right. Terrible terrible thing.

This is why I am in favour of it not only being allowed, but everyone over the age of 18 being required to open carry a firearm. One person with a ballsack and a gun could have reduced the death toll considerably.

[short-circuit]

Propaganda?

And possibly the reason the honky nutsos aren't labelled 'terrorists' is because they are individuals in most cases and not part of a group.

A quote from 'about' on that site...
"the real stories, reliable research and an independent viewpoint"

I don't think so..:nono:

I think you need to revise the definition of terrorism. In most of these types of scenarios the motivation is ideological....albeit fucked up ideology.

Besides the point really though - just another right wing piece of shit

[Crasherfromwayback]

.

This is why I am in favour of it not only being allowed, but everyone over the age of 18 being required to open carry a firearm. One person with a ballsack and a gun could have reduced the death toll considerably.

That's no good. Then when he gets all jealous about his GF flirting with another guy in a pub someone gets shot.

[scumdog]

That's no good. Then when he gets all jealous about his GF flirting with another guy in a pub someone gets shot.

Yeah, maybe 25+ but not 18

Have you seen how irrational, moody and emotional that lot are?


(Just look at their posts on KB...:blink:)

[HenryDorsetCase]

That's no good. Then when he gets all jealous about his GF flirting with another guy in a pub someone gets shot.

how is that a problem? Provided they havent yet bred. Natural selection in action, I'm all for it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, maybe 25+ but not 18



Maybe 30+. Most males don't know the meaning of the word consequence until then.

[Crasherfromwayback]

how is that a problem? Provided they havent yet bred. Natural selection in action, I'm all for it.

Because being pissed, he's likely to miss and shoot your son/daughter by mistake.

[scumdog]

how is that a problem? Provided they havent yet bred. Natural selection in action, I'm all for it.

Until one day it's you or a family member wanting to hit on the chick that somebody else 'owns' - but I guess ya knew that eh...eh?

[Oakie]

Hmm. Apparantly was a 'Fundementalist Christian'. So Muslims who do this are 'Islamic Extremists' but Christians get to be called 'Fundamentalists'.

[short-circuit]

Hmm. Apparantly was a 'Fundementalist Christian'. So Muslims who do this are 'Islamic Extremists' but Christians get to be called 'Fundamentalists'.

Fundamentalist=Extremist. One and the same.

[scumdog]

Fundamentalist=Extremist. One and the same.

Both mean potentially dangerous fuckwit imho...:yes:

[Latte]

Both mean potentially dangerous fuckwit imho...:yes:

yho be right :yes:

[Banditbandit]

Hang about .. Some of you judge Islam by the violent crazies it has produced .. Why not judge Christianity by the violent crazies it has produced?

Like this guy - a Christian Fundamentalist ...

[oldrider]

No one person or group holds a monopoly on stupidity!

[jazfender]

No one person or group holds a monopoly on stupidity!

Yeah, but there's several with hotels on Park Lane.

[Latte]

Yeah, but there's several with hotels on Park Lane.

Love it. </10Chars>

[slofox]

I have just been talking to a lady in Norway - she lives up in the Arctic circle. She was telling me that the guy has a 1500 page manifesto - that he has been planning this for nine years - that he is very lucid and very persuasive and that he has generated quite a lot of support in certain circles because of this...

She expects that he will get "life" imprisonment - which is about equivalent to our "life" imprisonment - ie, he will be out in several years. But they also have something akin to our "preventative detention" which he might also be subject to.

Sounds like the whole country has been turned upside down by all this. Hardly surprising...:blink:

[short-circuit]

Scary. Quite a few who hang out in these forums seem to see the world through a similar lense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwp2FnRmsE&skipcontrinter=1

[oldrider]

Scary. Quite a few who hang out in these forums seem to see the world through a similar lense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwp2FnRmsE&skipcontrinter=1

Political Left, right, North South East or West, the whole 360 degree spectrum of ism's etc, you name it, religious this, religious that, they all become dangerous the further you go from centre! :facepalm:

Fanatics of all sorts lurk out there in society, occasionally some of them seep through to the surface and impose themselves upon the rest of society, such is life I suppose! :shit:

It all begins with the man/woman in the mirror! :blip:

[Katman]

Well that was interesting viewing - and explains why the gunman always planned to be taken alive.

He wants his opportunity to present his ideology on a worldwide stage.

[Katman]

And quite frankly, anyone who thinks that it isn't the intention of Islam to take over the world is deluding themselves.

Islam doesn't care whether it takes 100 years or 1000 years.

Thankfully it's highly unlikely to occur in my lifetime.

[short-circuit]

It all begins with the man/woman in the mirror! :blip:

I'm glad you've had a bite cause you were one of those here I was referring to.

Did you agree with more of his maniacal ramblings than you feel comfortable with oldrider?

[placidfemme]

Ok... I don't understand.

He is anti-muslim or whatever. Why go out and shoot mostly white kids? Where is the logic? Wouldn't you go out and shoot a bunch of muslims?

[Katman]

Wouldn't you go out and shoot a bunch of muslims?

And make those Muslims martyrs for their cause?

He obviously thinks that Norway's Labour Party's embracing of multi-culturism is fundamental in the spread of Islam.

[placidfemme]

And make those Muslims martyrs for their cause?

He obviously thinks that Norway's Labour Party's embracing of multi-culturism is fundamental in the spread of Islam.

Good point I guess. Still makes sense to me to shoot the people you don't like and leave the ones you do like alone.

[oneofsix]

Good point I guess. Still makes sense to me to shoot the people you don't like and leave the ones you do like alone.

Look at it this way. He was shooting the people he blamed for being too liberal and allowing the people he didn't like into his country. Presumably once he got rid of those then it would only leave supporters and enemies

[cold comfort]

Futile exercise IMO. Hardly going to win any converts to his f#*%d viewpoint. The anti- immigration advocates will be keeping a low profile to distance themselves and i imagine this senseless slaughter would only engender public sympathy for further immigration. Ironically he is relying on the PC society he despises to air his sick agenda. Find some way to label the scum a terrorist and send him to Guantanamo!

[Banditbandit]

And quite frankly, anyone who thinks that it isn't the intention of Islam to take over the world is deluding themselves.

Islam doesn't care whether it takes 100 years or 1000 years.

Thankfully it's highly unlikely to occur in my lifetime.

And you think Christianity does not have exactly that objective? They've done pretty damm well at it so far ..


Look at it this way. He was shooting the people he blamed for being too liberal and allowing the people he didn't like into his country. Presumably once he got rid of those then it would only leave supporters and enemies


Kids? He blames KIDS for letting immigrants into his country ??? He's sicker than any Islamic fundamentalist ..

[scissorhands]

I originally thought he was aspergian, but some of his behaviour hints more at NPD

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Narcissistic personality disorder NPD


The cause of this disorder is unknown, according to Groopman and Cooper. However, they list the following factors identified by various researchers as possibilities.[3]

An oversensitive temperament at birth is the main symptomatic chronic form
Being praised for perceived exceptional looks or talents by adults
Excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback
Excessive praise for good behaviors or excessive criticism for poor behaviors in childhood
Overindulgence and overvaluation by parents
Severe emotional abuse in childhood
Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
Valued by parents as a means to regulate their own self-esteem

Some narcissistic traits are common and a normal developmental phase. When these traits are compounded by a failure of the interpersonal environment and continue into adulthood, they may intensify to the point where NPD is diagnosed.[4] Some psychotherapists believe that the etiology of the disorder is, in Freudian terms, the result of fixation to early childhood development.[5] If a child does not receive sufficient recognition for their talents during about ages 3–7 they will never mature and continue to be in the narcissistic early development stage.[6][dubious – discuss]

A 1994 study by Gabbard and Twemlow[7] reports that histories of incest, especially mother-son incest, are associated with NPD in some male patients.
[edit] Theories

Pathological narcissism occurs in a spectrum of severity. In its more extreme forms, it is narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). NPD is considered to result from a person's belief that they are flawed in a way that makes them fundamentally unacceptable to others.[8] This belief is held below the person's conscious awareness; such a person would, if questioned, typically deny thinking such a thing. In order to protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and isolation that (they imagine) would follow if others recognised their (perceived) defective nature, such people make strong attempts to control others’ views of them and behavior towards them.

Pathological narcissism can develop from an impairment in the quality of the person's relationship with their primary caregivers, usually their parents, in that the parents were unable to form a healthy and empathic attachment to them.[citation needed] This results in the child's perception of himself/herself as unimportant and unconnected to others. The child typically comes to believe they have some personality defect that makes them unvalued and unwanted.[9]

Narcissistic personality disorder is isolating, disenfranchising, painful, and formidable for those living with it and often those who are in a relationship with them. Distinctions need to be made among those who have NPD because not every person with NPD is the same. Even with similar core issues, the way in which one's individual narcissism manifests itself in his or her relationships varies.[citation needed]

To the extent that people are pathologically narcissistic, they can be controlling, blaming, self-absorbed, intolerant of others’ views, unaware of others' needs and of the effects of their behavior on others, and insistent that others see them as they wish to be seen.[6]

People who are overly narcissistic commonly feel rejected, humiliated and threatened when criticised. To protect themselves from these dangers, they often react with disdain, rage, and/or defiance to any slight criticism, real or imagined.[10] To avoid such situations, some narcissistic people withdraw socially and may feign modesty or humility. In cases where the narcissistic personality-disordered individual feels a lack of admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation, he/she may also manifest wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply).

Although individuals with NPD are often ambitious and capable, the inability to tolerate setbacks, disagreements or criticism, along with lack of empathy, make it difficult for such individuals to work cooperatively with others or to maintain long-term professional achievements.[11] With narcissistic personality disorder, the individual's self-perceived fantastic grandiosity, often coupled with a hypomanic mood, is typically not commensurate with his or her real accomplishments.

The exploitativeness, sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, disregard for others, and constant need for attention inherent in NPD adversely affect interpersonal relationships.
[edit] Splitting
Main article: Splitting (psychology)

People who are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder use splitting (black and white thinking) as a central defense mechanism. They do this to preserve their self-esteem, by seeing the self as purely good and the others as purely bad. The use of splitting also implies the use of other defense mechanisms, namely devaluation, idealization and denial.[12]
[edit] Relationship to shame

It has been suggested that narcissistic personality disorder may be related to defenses against shame.[13]

Psychiatrist Glen Gabbard suggested NPD could be broken down into two subtypes.[14] He saw the "oblivious" subtype as being grandiose, arrogant, and thick-skinned and the "hypervigilant" subtype as being easily hurt, oversensitive, and ashamed. In his view, the oblivious subtype presents for admiration, envy, and appreciation a powerful, grandiose self that is the antithesis of a weak internalized self, which hides in shame, while the hypervigilant subtype neutralizes devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers.

Dr. Jeffrey Young, who coined the term "Schema Therapy", a technique originally developed by psychiatrist Aaron T. Beck (1979), also links NPD and shame. He sees the so-called Defectiveness Schema as a core schema of NPD, along with the Emotional Deprivation and Entitlement Schemas.[

[short-circuit]

I originally thought he was aspergian, but some of his behaviour hints more at NPD

Narcissistic personality disorder NPD...etc

Everyone's a psychiatrist - all ya need is wikipedia apparently

[Banditbandit]

Whatever .. aspergers ... NPD .. fucked in the head ...

Shoot the prick ...

[Paul in NZ]

Increasing pressure on western societies, increase in social media allowing disaffected loners to quickly find others of a similar mindset coupled with easy access to dangerous weapons are potential concerns for us peaceful types.

Basically this guy was hoping to take out the next generation of Labour Party leaders or cause their parents to over react and kick off a ‘rebellion’. Which is kinda nutty as Norwegians are really quite a wealthy society and functional so are unlikely to want to rock that boat too much….

If you take a wider view of the state of the whole western world it is arguable that we are coming to the end of a period of growth and stability. Several European states are pretty well bankrupted and thus unstable and even the USA is getting the speed wobbles. It can also be argued that the great ‘globalisation’ experiment of the last few decades has caused this as well as creating an unwanted underclass in many countries but regardless of that – its reasonable to suggest that there is likely to be a lot more pressure on 'western' societies in the short term.

Pressure – change – loss. All triggers for the borderline nutcase to pull on his uniform, dust of his semi auto and head for the middle of town to start his revolution. Sad…. Anyway – lets always remember that WE are good people and WE can stop this but not getting swept up in the hatred.

[Banditbandit]

Sad…. Anyway – lets always remember that WE are good people and WE can stop this but not getting swept up in the hatred.

Yeah .. sad ... I don't hate him .. shooting the prick is purely survival ... he can't kill others if he's dead ..

[Katman]

And you think Christianity does not have exactly that objective? They've done pretty damm well at it so far ..


Christians aren't quite as scary though.

[slofox]

And you think Christianity does not have exactly that objective? They've done pretty damm well at it so far ..




Kids? He blames KIDS for letting immigrants into his country ??? He's sicker than any Islamic fundamentalist ..

According to some of those who study religions, if you compare the relative ages of Christianity and Islam, age for age, they have both acted in pretty much the same way. At about the age Islam is now, Christianity was doing the Crusade thing - trying to push the infidel back into oblivion. Which is exactly what militant Islam is currently up to.
If the theory holds true, then Islam may become less militant in time. Although I am not sure, personally, that Christianity is not still militant. Certain areas of the US of A give pause for thought, no? As does this dude in Norway...

A lot of killing has been in the name of God in human history...that god bugger has a lot to answer for. :angry:

[Paul in NZ]

Yeah .. sad ... I don't hate him .. shooting the prick is purely survival ... he can't kill others if he's dead ..

Unfortunately - if he becomes some kind of right wing martyr - yes he can...

[Banditbandit]

Christians aren't quite as scary though.

Oh??? Single-handedly one of them just took out more than 90 people with a bomb and slaughter with guns ... that looks pretty scarey to me ... I bet Anders Breivik would love Brian Tamaki and destiny Church ..

[slofox]

Christians aren't quite as scary though.

I dunno about that, Katman. I saw some pretty fucking scary "christians" when I was sent to a convent primary school...:eek5: Fuckin' hooded black critters with tempers like premenstrual feminists...(actually, maybe they were..?)

[scissorhands]

Whatever .. aspergers ... NPD .. fucked in the head ...

Shoot the prick ...

Shoot the parents too? Shoot the peps who disliked his autism and ostracised him all his life, driving him to lonely despair and extremism? Shoot the society that made him what he is? oh wait Shoot me the messenger? Shoot everyone whos autistic and fucked in the head? That sounds a lot like him

meh

[Banditbandit]

Shoot the parents too? Shoot the peps who disliked his autism and ostracised him all his life, driving him to lonely despair and extremism? Shoot the society that made him what he is? oh waitShoot me the messenger? Shoot everyone whos autistic and fucked in the head? That sounds a lot like him

meh

You missunderstand. It is not necessary to shoot all them for survival reasons .. Yes, I agree ... there are reasosn he is what he is and did what he did - reasons are not excuses and by the time he's done it all -TOO LATE shoot him ...

I also believe in shooting paranoid psychotics .. even if they are found not guility of murder on the grounds of insanity ... Too late - they are too dangerous - remove them ..

Deal with the reasons - but remove the immediate and present danger ..

[Dodgy_Matt]

According to some of those who study religions, if you compare the relative ages of Christianity and Islam, age for age, they have both acted in pretty much the same way. At about the age Islam is now, Christianity was doing the Crusade thing - trying to push the infidel back into oblivion. Which is exactly what militant Islam is currently up to.
If the theory holds true, then Islam may become less militant in time. Although I am not sure, personally, that Christianity is not still militant. Certain areas of the US of A give pause for thought, no? As does this dude in Norway...

A lot of killing has been in the name of God in human history...that god bugger has a lot to answer for. :angry:

So its a "Imaginary friend is better than your Imaginary friend" thing? :facepalm:

[scissorhands]

When do we lynch those Destiny Church hate breeders?


just to protect society....

[Banditbandit]

When do we lynch those Destiny Church hate breeders?

Bwhahahaha ... why? Who did they kill? I don't mind killing someone .. but you'd better give me a better reason than that ...

[slofox]

So its a "Imaginary friend is better than your Imaginary friend" thing? :facepalm:

That would appear to be about it...

[Indiana_Jones]

This guy has about as much guts as an IRA cunt blowing up Tommies in a pub.

-Indy

[Scuba_Steve]

A lot of killing has been in the name of God in human history...that god bugger has a lot to answer for. :angry:

:oi-grr: your not one of these people that also like to go after Manson, Eminem, Rockstar Games (GTA) & the like are you???

[Banditbandit]

This guy has about as much guts as an IRA cunt blowing up Tommies in a pub.

-Indy

Which one? God or the jerk in Norway?

[Indiana_Jones]

Which one? God or the jerk in Norway?

I don't think the big guy hates politicians that much....

-Indy

[slofox]

:oi-grr: your not one of these people that also like to go after Manson, Eminem, Rockstar Games (GTA) & the like are you???

Nah...not at all. Too lazy...

Besides, GTA was one of the funniest games I ever played.

[schrodingers cat]

According to some of those who study religions, if you compare the relative ages of Christianity and Islam, age for age, they have both acted in pretty much the same way. At about the age Islam is now, Christianity was doing the Crusade thing - trying to push the infidel back into oblivion. Which is exactly what militant Islam is currently up to.
If the theory holds true, then Islam may become less militant in time. Although I am not sure, personally, that Christianity is not still militant. Certain areas of the US of A give pause for thought, no? As does this dude in Norway...

A lot of killing has been in the name of God in human history...that god bugger has a lot to answer for. :angry:

Careful with all this highbrow reasoned thought stuff...

PS Don't Jews, Muslims and Christians believe in the same God? Its only the prophet that differs

[Katman]

I dunno about that, Katman. I saw some pretty fucking scary "christians" when I was sent to a convent primary school...:eek5: Fuckin' hooded black critters with tempers like premenstrual feminists...(actually, maybe they were..?)

Pound for pound, I'd rather piss off a room full of Christians than Muslims.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Do we think that SKINS are going to change their logo and branding as a result of the fact this lunatic was posing withthe assault rifle, webbing, and a SKINS logo prominently displayed?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Pound for pound, I'd rather piss off a room full of Christians than Muslims.

[insert joke about pound for pound C4 is far more explosive than other religious nutters here]

[Crasherfromwayback]

Do we think that SKINS are going to change their logo and branding as a result of the fact this lunatic was posing withthe assault rifle, webbing, and a SKINS logo prominently displayed?

Probably come up with an advertising slogan along the likes of 'Skins can keep the coldest cunt in the world warm...'

[cold comfort]

Pound for pound, I'd rather piss off a room full of Christians than Muslims.

Speaking of which. Even though Anders Breivik is an unhinged lunatic he interestingly fingers a NZ Labour candidate here (Ashram Choundry) who has gone on record as saying stoning people to death is "correct", but just not in NZ. (Sunday Star Times today). What the hell is this PC country coming to when that is acceptable from an MP.

[jazfender]

A decent read comparing the US and Norwegian reactions to tragedies.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/28/norway/index.html