Junior Road Racing needs to be more attractive

[CHOPPA]

There is always lots of discussion about how to encourage Jnr road racing.

Apart from the fact the kids are not allowed to race too early, there is ways to get on track like buckets etc.

The people that are spending the money on motorcycling are spending it racing Motocross because its cool, bright, there bikes are fast and new.

The whole road race image is really dull, black leather and dirty old slow bikes, there is no way the kids from MX are gonna choose an old falling apart 150 street stock over there new CRF150 MX bike.

In Australia the young fast guys come from a dirt track backround, it bridges the gap between MX and Road Racing.

If there is to be more young talent there needs to be an avenue for them to take that includes cool fast bikes. MX riders like 600s, 1000s, Supermoto and Dirt Track. 600s and 1000s are out of the question but jnr supermoto would be such an easy step. Id also love to see flat track racing.

No disrespect to those who do ride those bikes mentioned and those of you that are doing everything you can for the young guys, good on you! Its easy for me to sit on the fence, but I still stand by my opinion

If I had more time id try to help, its certainly one of my long term goals.

If you have a street stock bike im by no means knocking you or your bike, there is nothing at all wrong with them my point is that mx riders have to have flat peak caps, custom graphix, 22" wheels on there van and the latest fox gear so the 150 doesnt fit the image

[Robert Taylor]

There is always lots of discussion about how to encourage Jnr road racing.

Apart from the fact the kids are not allowed to race too early, there is ways to get on track like buckets etc.

The people that are spending the money on motorcycling are spending it racing Motocross because its cool, bright, there bikes are fast and new.

The whole road race image is really dull, black leather and dirty old slow bikes, there is no way the kids from MX are gonna choose an old falling apart 150 street stock over there new CRF150 MX bike.

In Australia the young fast guys come from a dirt track backround, it bridges the gap between MX and Road Racing.

If there is to be more young talent there needs to be an avenue for them to take that includes cool fast bikes. MX riders like 600s, 1000s, Supermoto and Dirt Track. 600s and 1000s are out of the question but jnr supermoto would be such an easy step. Id also love to see flat track racing.

No disrespect to those who do ride those bikes mentioned, good on you! But I doubt you have the same mentality as most of the quick mx riders.

If I had more time id try to help, its certainly one of my long term goals.

Certainly Ive evidenced that those riders that have come from a solid MX background have often done very well in road racing and we should encourage more puddle jumpers to convert to tarmac.
Sloan Frost, Scotty Moir being two great examples. And Johny Burkhart had he been able to continue

[CHOPPA]

I reckon we need BT or Coops to jump on a road race bike, that would be a great way to steal MX riders haha

[steveyb]

Yes this is true.
This very point has been made several times on this site by this member.
But in our Kiwi, "fastest route to the bottom please", way we continue to insist that building our own pieces of shit and supplying the cheapest piles of stinking crap we can is how we will do it and anyone that says anything else can fcuk off.

Having fast well handing, good looking bikes that the off road kids actually want to ride (as opposed to "is that all there is, oh ok then") and gear they can buy (for example; Crown Kiwi does not import any of the Alpinestars youth range except on special order) would make a huge difference.

But the biggest competitors are the parents of the MX kids. It is really difficult to convince them, in any numbers, that road racing can be cheaper and safer than MX. Tony Rees knows this personally as he has tried many times to talk MX parents into roadracing. So the upshot of it is that we never end up with enough young riders in the one place (except in Chch) and then nationally to make it possible from any stand point (financially, logistically, organisationally) to import the bikes or the gear or have races for youth riders only. This is a very important point. It is important if not vital that the kids are able to race against kids, and not against adults.

As Oyster points out, this sort of system works, but he also points out that road racing starts too late and really should be starting at similar ages to MX. Really, there is no reason why other than organisationally. Getting the Mini MX kids onto the kart track on their MX bikes with road tyres would be something ay?

My feeling is that the Australian situation where dirt track racing is a reasonably big scene makes the transition into roadracing just that bit easier. Setting up some dirt tracks here would be a hoot, but probably far too difficult and expensive.
Remember, dirt track is not speedway or MX.

Sloan who?

As you were, again.

[steveyb]

I reckon we need BT or Coops to jump on a road race bike, that would be a great way to steal MX riders haha

Agree with that, but maybe it would be better if we were able to attract the younger ones. Katherine, Levi, etc

[CHOPPA]

Agree with that, but maybe it would be better if we were able to attract the younger ones. Katherine, Levis, etc

Yup I reckon with one of there heros like those boys doing some road racing it would make them want to follow...

Id agree also that the safety thing is a big aspect, trying to convince then MX is far more dangerous is pretty hard.

[CHOPPA]

Yes this is true.
This very point has been made several times on this site by this member.

It always seems to get overlooked but it is the major reason

we will do it and anyone that says anything else can fcuk off.

Its great that a few guys like yourself are making such a big effort and your bikes even though they are sorta old dont fall into the same category because they are "cool"

Having fast well handing, good looking bikes that the off road kids actually want to ride would make a huge difference.

Yeah there is nothing on the market thats why the best bet would be to encourage junior motard so they can just put wheels on there current bikes and get the best of both worlds


Getting the Mini MX kids onto the kart track on their MX bikes with road tyres would be something ay?

Sure would!

Sloan who?

I think he started racing about the same time as Moto Academy started

As you were, again.

As above................

[merv]

I reckon we need BT or Coops to jump on a road race bike, that would be a great way to steal MX riders haha

BT did some laps a while back, wasn't that on Casey Stoner's KTM back in the day?

If BT had gone road racing, who knows he may not have suffered the injuries he has had.

[CHOPPA]

BT did some laps a while back, wasn't that on Casey Stoner's KTM back in the day?

If BT had gone road racing, who knows he may not have suffered the injuries he has had.

Yeah it was part of a red bull thing, Casey rode his and he rode Caseys KTM 125 GP bike. Imagine that for your first ride!!

He also did a track day at HDs on MR Motorcycles zx6r

[CHOPPA]

Id be keen to write an article on road racing for say DRD or Kiwirider, it would prob be better if I could write but ill give it a go. Something that just shows an insiders view to road racing.

Another idea would be to offer a ride on one of the Moto Academy bikes to whoever wins the 125cc jnr nationals as a prize or maybe a ride at one round of the nats for each class winner?

How much would we have to raise Steve?

I guess the Superbike School would be good to attend for each rider as well, if it was marketed right then the School may be able to provide training free as its good advertising etc???

[RDjase]

There is always lots of discussion about how to encourage Jnr road racing.

Apart from the fact the kids are not allowed to race too early, there is ways to get on track like buckets etc.



The "Young Junior Road race" Class is for 10 to 13yr olds, but the specs (unless they have been changed) for the bikes sound like a JR or PW50 with road tyres. Not much fun for a kid that has been racing a 65cc 2 stroke MX bike.

At the MNZ conference Budda mentioned about opening up the 10 to 13 yr old class and has some bikes that sound alot more fun for young riders than a learner dirt bike for a 5 yr old with scooter tyres. I cant find the regs on the MNZ site. Will have a look and post it when I find it. In the old rules they were in 2 or 3 differnet places

My son Tyler did lots of riding at Kart tracks on his JR50 with scooter tyres at Bucket meeting lunchtimes. Would have been great to have a whole bunch of youngsters out there together

[scott411]

BT has done some laps of Hampton Downs on a ZX6R a couple of years ago and loved it, (i know it was my bike)

Choppa what you say is true, but what has been proved in christchurch with the junior 150's is it does work, but you need someone to run it, and put there time and passion into it, like the mx clubs do,

I have had a few people say to me that we need dirt track here to, and junior super motard,

I would love to have a go dirt track, but whos going to build the track and run the race day, organise the flags etc,

I had a Super Motard Bike, and loved the dual dirt/sealed tracks, but did not really enjoy the full out road circuits (and how fucken long you sat around at road race meetings for 3 sometimes 2 really short races), so i sold my gear as the 2-3 meetings a year did not justify my time and money tied up in the gear, I think a junior sportman class which was put into the rules that were written would go off once you got some numbers racing it

both have the same problem, no one to run these meetings, until you solve that problem, you will always only have the idea's.

[Billy]

BT has done some laps of Hampton Downs on a ZX6R a couple of years ago and loved it, (i know it was my bike)

Choppa what you say is true, but what has been proved in christchurch with the junior 150's is it does work, but you need someone to run it, and put there time and passion into it, like the mx clubs do,

I have had a few people say to me that we need dirt track here to, and junior super motard,

I would love to have a go dirt track, but whos going to build the track and run the race day, organise the flags etc,

I had a Super Motard Bike, and loved the dual dirt/sealed tracks, but did not really enjoy the full out road circuits (and how fucken long you sat around at road race meetings for 3 sometimes 2 really short races), so i sold my gear as the 2-3 meetings a year did not justify my time and money tied up in the gear, I think a junior sportman class which was put into the rules that were written would go off once you got some numbers racing it

both have the same problem, no one to run these meetings, until you solve that problem, you will always only have the idea's.

Spot on Scott,Motorcycling Canterbury have as you stated already proven that a low cost entry level class is successful,All the talk about grand prix machines and metrakit 125s is just hearsay in our community,What works in the bigger economies,Wont necessarily work here,The introduction of the Prolite 250 class at National level will be the biggest shot in the arm the sport will recieve and the foresight of the people at Hyosung NZ with the Hyosung cup will further enhance the class,The biggest asset the guys in Christchurch have is the huge amount of support from the parents involved,With both their time and whatever money than can afford,In the North Island it appears that very few will put anything in without being rewarded financially.I wouldnt be panicking at this stage,Just wait til the Hyosung cup and National series rolls around and see how big the feilds are in the Prolite class.

[oyster]

Prolite is not the answer. So far it's attracting only old riders. I'll be very surprised when I see a grid full of 13 year olds as we've seen for many years in Streetstock (South Island)
And MNZ have even set up the rules for it as a senior class IE no age category as Pro Twin has.
Young Junior Road race IS the answer and is proven as workable, successful and hugely attractive to a youngster. This idea the bikes /scene has to be all bling bling is bullshit. I've coached probably a hundred kids from 10 years and up. The ones that were obsessed with image (very few I might add) never lasted the proverbial 5 minutes. The ones who've toughed it out and had focussed make the list of our current teenage "greats"
People who think otherwise have no idea what's in the head of these kids. Try it, we have and it WORKS.
The biggest issue is the inability of clubs to provide the environment. If they do that, it thrives. This is not a theory, it's well proven

[Shaun]

Chopa, Brilliant post an awsome to see you being as pro active as you are in the game. Personally ( Haha) I wreckon if you were to focus your support energy commitment on trying to bring MX riders over to the Road scene it would be a huge boost for the sport mate.



* There is some OLD cleaver bar-stewards on here that need to sit down togther and agree to dis agree and build a plan and together direct it- PISS easy really hahahah- Here it comes

With your pit set up fallities presentation it will smoke mum and dads tyres:yes:

Carry on Driver

[oyster]

Big respect to you Billy, but you're not quite right about Christchurch
Why it works here is because the club, Motorcycling Canterbury is committed to making junior development part of it's business. This is not charity, it's just good sense for any enterprise or business to look out into the future. After all, every other sport does it, and consequently reaps the benefit of it's investment in future years.
It's a cliche I know, but youth IS the future.

And besides, our leaders at MNZ tell us in the first page of the rule book "fostering the sport"
Clubs are told to do it!

[Deano]

And MNZ have even set up the rules for it as a senior class IE no age category as Pro Twin has.


Say what ?

Can you please provide a link to that rule ?

(Edit - sorry, the pro twin age rule.)

[Str8 Jacket]

Say what ?

Can you please provide a link to that rule ?

Worried that you're getting to old??

[Deano]

Worried that you're getting to old??

:facepalm:

If I am it might be time to build an F3 hot rod.

I'm just a young fella compared to Glen and Terry :shutup:

Shit, by the time I'm their age I might even be as fast !!

[Shaun]

:facepalm:

If I am it might be time to build an F3 hot rod.

I'm be just a young fella compared to Glen and Terry :shutup:

Shit, by the time I'm their age I might even be as fast !!



Apart from the fact that Glen sits down to PISS:yes: they are similar --- :scooter:

so if they can do it so can you

[codgyoleracer]

Terry & My secret is that we are so old now that we dont care if we die anyway......:yes:

[Ivan]

Choppa your bang on the money see im doing the dead opposite of what you did come from motox to road im going road to motox and I see what you mean the kids there who are probably 10 have all the flashest new riding gear like Alpinestars etc there pits usally have someone they know parked there with Bling as chromes on a Hiace slammed out, there bikes have awsome custom graphics kits and there bikes are new, if htey were to look into streetstock and see a 10 year old 150 been thrashed and probably a lil scuffed on the edges they wont be keen,

I think its cool you trying to do something and hope it works, theres some good potential in the jr mx series at the mo whocould bring some pretty good bike skills they have learnt at a young age over and adapt

[CHOPPA]

Its a shame im not really in the position to be able to put any time into a project because im a little bit tied up with my own racing atm.

If I had more time specially around the nationals, I reckon the "scholarship" idea would be easy to do and it would put road racing in front of the mx riders.

The trick would be to get this bike....
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/other/auction-380148527.htm

Offer the prize to 5 of the fastest jnrs at the MX nats.

Get Pirelli or the like to supply 5 sets of tyres
Get CSS on board to borrow gear and give them training.
Someone to run the bike at the track, M1 could probably.

Get a bike magazine behind it to give it momentum and it would certainly open some eyes.

BTW If you choose to disregard what I say about the flashy and the cool, your not gonna tap into the real talent.

I havnt seen any real talent in road racing that I have seen in MX. There is 14 year old kids that could match the lap times on a smooth track that a top world class mx rider could lay down. That is the talent we need coming over to road racing.

Its hard not to take what I say as in insult for those of you who are out there putting in the hard yards, I have only been around a few years and I can see the the growth in the youth racing so obviously you are doing a great job

Im putting thought into whatever it may take to steal some MX riders, they will love it!

[FROSTY]

Ya know oyster can say what he wants but the reason JRR took off in Christchurch is the dedication and drive of ONE person. That person made it happen by putting in the time and effort untill now its become a bit of a juggernaught.
No Im not ass kissing here Oyster.
The point being quite often thats all it takes to get things off the ground -ONE person with drive and determination.( helps to be a bit of a masacist)
Oyster and I agreed to disagree on the subject of NZ's biggest population base -dauckland and JRR opertunities here.
I believe that in auckland the 50cc two stroke F5 class is a fantastic place for racers to start out. Why?
Simple accessability of the track is the key. I could see an entire day of junior road racers eventually. Full on F5 50's and F4 150's -which with the FXR150's being allowed means some sexy looking bikes could be built.
I know we are a pimple on the words backside but look at how Rossi started out. Look at countries with a booming junior race culture. Gosh even look to malasia.
ONE person can make it happen

[ellipsis]

...bang on...as soon as one mans idea is filtered, washed, turned around and the original idea is given to a group(committee) to action...it invariably turns out to be no change...just like before...but leading from the front takes a bit of balls and commitment and is often seen as a good reason for being set upon by the pack...for no apparent sensible reason it seems, in good 'ol kiwi...

[cowpoos]

Sloan Frost, Scotty Moir being two great examples. And Johny Burkhart had he been able to continue

Simon crafar, Aaron Slight, apparently Pie Boi Shirriffs chased a few chooks in his time too :yes:

[cowpoos]

Yeah it was part of a red bull thing, Casey rode his and he rode Caseys KTM 125 GP bike. Imagine that for your first ride!!

He also did a track day at HDs on MR Motorcycles zx6r

my mind boogles How BT would fit on caseys 125 KTM !!

[FROSTY]

...bang on...as soon as one mans idea is filtered, washed, turned around and the original idea is given to a group(committee) to action...it invariably turns out to be no change...just like before...but leading from the front takes a bit of balls and commitment and is often seen as a good reason for being set upon by the pack...for no apparent sensible reason it seems, in good 'ol kiwi...
Yea but Im told when it comes off its pretty darn satisfying.

[racefactory]

Good post man. Junior motarding does sound like the way to go. What needs to be done is to get a body together organizing more access to kart tracks or improvise some supermotard tracks (seriously, once a month is far from enough... these guys can hit woodhill any day of the week). If this was the case then all they would need is 1000 bucks for some 17 inch rims and tyres to take their KTM 125's and CR125's road racing. It's very true what you say about the grotty, ageing and uncool small bikes- fuck that I'll have a 125 mx bike any day.

[Kickaha]

Simon crafar, Aaron Slight, apparently Pie Boi Shirriffs chased a few chooks in his time too :yes:

I thought Pie Boi Shirrifs downgraded from Buckets which is where most of the fast guys come from

[cowpoos]

I thought Pie Boi Shirrifs downgraded from Buckets which is where most of the fast guys come from

who has won a nz championship that has raced buckets?

[gixerracer]

who has won a nz championship that has raced buckets?

I do beleive I have four of them 2xNZ 600 championships plus 2xNZ Endurance and it all started at buckets :scooter:
Plus all them stupid street race series if they count?

[gixerracer]

I do beleive I have four of them 2xNZ 600 championships plus 2xNZ Endurance and it all started at buckets :scooter:
Plus all them stupid street race series if they count?

I guess it started at dirt bike riding when I was 3 years old and wentr through motocross for a while with some sucsess at club level, we never raced Nationals as we had no money. Didnt do much bike racing at all for a few of my teenaged years then got in the bucket scene at maybe 16-17years old and that got me hooked on tarmac racing fo sure:love:

[wharfy]

I
Plus all them stupid street race series if they count?

They count

[jellywrestler]

look at how Rossi started out.
some sense in there but Rossi's Daddy was a GP rider, think that helped a bit, bit like Kenny Roberts Junior...

[Kickaha]

I do beleive I have four of them 2xNZ 600 championships plus 2xNZ Endurance and it all started at buckets :scooter:
Plus all them stupid street race series if they count?

Does that answer your question cowpoos you dickhead :finger:

plus Dennis Charlett and If I can find a list of previous winners to confirm a few things I think can probably add another 2-3 at least

[Buddha#81]

the last three or four 125 champs all still have and currently race buckets! theres even a guy thats raced in the AMA that still climbs on a bucket.

[cowpoos]

the last three or four 125 champs all still have and currently race buckets! theres even a guy thats raced in the AMA that still climbs on a bucket.

125 ain't a race bike, its a cross dressing chainsaw...so dont count.


Does that answer your question cowpoos you dickhead :finger:



Read below Bakery Burglar!!


I guess it started at dirt bike riding when I was 3 years old and wentr through motocross for a while with some sucsess at club level, we never raced Nationals as we had no money. Didnt do much bike racing at all for a few of my teenaged years then got in the bucket scene at maybe 16-17years old and that got me hooked on tarmac racing fo sure:love:

and thats what I ment....started out racing....you start on MXer's :yes:

[Kickaha]

125 ain't a race bike, its a cross dressing chainsaw...so dont count.

The only reason you say they don't count is you're to much of a fat cunt to fit on one

They're the only proper race bikes that are still currently racing in this country

[gixerracer]

The only reason you say they don't count is you're to much of a fat cunt to fit on one

They're the only proper race bikes that are still currently racing in this country

Proper race bike please explain?
You are living in the 80's still man, proper race bikes have valves and cams and shit like that and dont sound like mums sewing machine

[eelracing]

Proper race bike please explain?
You are living in the 80's still man, proper race bikes have valves and cams and shit like that and dont sound like mums sewing machine

I remember a couple of years back your old man turning up at one of our VMX meets with a trailer full of what I thought at the time was old junk for sale.
He pulled off the back of the trailer what looked like an XR framed Suzuki engined KX'd suspended rat bike that was ready for the tip.
He then proceeded to whip the arse off of all of us and then packed up early saying he had to get home before the missus found out coz he was under doctors orders not to ride.

If that's true then your mum must weild one mean fucken sewing machine.

[jellywrestler]

and dont sound like mums sewing machine
You've got a Mum??

[oyster]

South Island bucket racers that are NZ champions
Cam Horgan, Cam Jones, Andy Evans, Johnny Small, Dennis Charlett, Alastair Hoogenboezem, Jake Lewis, Tim McArthur, Andy Bolwell, Seth Devereux.
If you added NZ titles (includes TT GP etc) there would be a heap more.
And add a few few honorary Southerners, Sam Smith, Karl morgan

[Billy]

South Island bucket racers that are NZ champions
Cam Horgan, Cam Jones, Andy Evans, Johnny Small, Dennis Charlett, Alastair Hoogenboezem, Jake Lewis, Tim McArthur, Andy Bolwell, Seth Devereux.
If you added NZ titles (includes TT GP etc) there would be a heap more.
And add a few few honorary Southerners, Sam Smith, Karl morgan

Exactly and most if not all progressed through streetstock 150 as well,Where was Peter Clifford when all this was happening,Not to mention Aaron Slight,Andrew Stroud,Brian Bernard,Eddie Kattenberg,Chris Haldane,Tony Rees,Johnny Hepburn,Simon Crafar,Bruce Anstey,Blair Degerholm and many more top flight international riders all started their careers on 250 proddy bikes,Not 125gp,Go figure

[gixerracer]

South Island bucket racers that are NZ champions
Cam Horgan, Cam Jones, Andy Evans, Johnny Small, Dennis Charlett, Alastair Hoogenboezem, Jake Lewis, Tim McArthur, Andy Bolwell, Seth Devereux.
If you added NZ titles (includes TT GP etc) there would be a heap more.
And add a few few honorary Southerners, Sam Smith, Karl morgan

I was once made an official member of littleton in chch so I can be in there 2 ae:love:
I like the south island better than the north

[gixerracer]

I remember a couple of years back your old man turning up at one of our VMX meets with a trailer full of what I thought at the time was old junk for sale.
He pulled off the back of the trailer what looked like an XR framed Suzuki engined KX'd suspended rat bike that was ready for the tip.
He then proceeded to whip the arse off of all of us and then packed up early saying he had to get home before the missus found out coz he was under doctors orders not to ride.

If that's true then your mum must weild one mean fucken sewing machine.

Lets get 2 things clear. Morleys missis sure as fuck aint my mother:shit::facepalm:
And I denie him being my father on days like that and also many other days aswell

[steveyb]

:killingme:killingme:killingme

[merv]

And I denie him being my father on days like that and also many other days aswell

How come? Does he still whip your arse too?

[jellywrestler]

I was once made an official member of littleton in chch so I can be in there 2 ae:love:
I like the south island better than the north


I remember it wasn't the town Lyttelton ya clown, it was another Littleton and you were invited cause of your ridiculously little cock...

[Kickaha]

Proper race bike please explain?
You are living in the 80's still man, proper race bikes have valves and cams and shit like that and dont sound like mums sewing machine

Proper factory built GP race bike not some converted four stroke diesel pile of crap street bike like you ride


I like the south island better than the north

That's probably because we're much nicer people than those cunts that live up North

[oyster]

Sorry Deano, I'm not to good on the quote stuff, hopefully you see this

Nup, it wont "paste" for me either!

In the MNZ rules, appendix "D" lists the chamipnship classes. It says pro twin has
2 age categories. In the first few years they were awarded as such (separately) but not recently for some reason. (prob not enough numbers)
Note the wee typo. Literally it means a 19 year old or younger can't compete! I tried for years to get that fixed but gave up...

My point is Pro Lite should be the same, better still with a lower age cap, say up to 16 then over 16 for the old timers. Very simple and costs nothing but would encourage the junior theme.

[Deano]

Thanks oyster.

If that rule had been applied at the last Round of the Nats this year, I would have got 1st as Johnny Small was only 19 :violin:

[Moooools]

There is a nine year old who races against buckets up in Hawkes Bay.
He is racing on an NSR 50 (or maybe bored out to 80), starts off the dummy grid behind after all of the B graders have taken off, and then proceeds to whip them. Comprehensively.

Could be worth a look at him. Don't know a name but someone will. Maybe NSR143?

[cowpoos]

That's probably because we're much nicer people than those cunts that live up North

I resemble that comment!

[merv]

I resemble that comment!

Which comment, not the nicer one, you mean that other one seeing you're up North eh?

[slowpoke]

Good post Chop. I've gotta admit my mates kids over the road (8 and 10) would be pretty unimpressed with a road race meeting and the bikes a beginner is supposed to ride. After their regular Honda Kid's Club outings with Dad they'd probably think they were being punished with just 3 short races a day. They are country kids not really into the bling (yet) but still want something with a bit of fizz in a fun location. They'd be bored stupid riding a bucket type thingo around Manfeild or Hampton Downs.

Which is another reason why I reckon the SI scene is so strong: Ruapuna, next to NZ's second largest city, is a lot more challenging and fun to ride, especially compared to Manfeild.

[racefactory]

Is there any reason why there can't be more access to kart tracks for kids to motard and race their kx and cr125's when they want?

It's quite a drag and hassle to have only 1 day of the month at a kart track that they won't even get much riding time at... these kids can hit Woodhill any day of the week with their mates and be constantly on the bike ripping it up. It's a no brainer really, I know what I'd choose...

[oyster]

Sorry Slowpoke but I have to dismantle the myth (yet again)
"In the South Island it works because of... blah blah lots of irelevant matters."

It works in the South because Motorcycling Canterbury has committed to the task of junior development (as most other sports already do) No other reason.

In fact the south is quite disadvantaged in that there is very little short circuit / small bike stuff here. Outside of Motorcycling Canterbury events the only bucket racing is at BEARS meetings who are anti junior. And thats only about 5 per year max
The north in contrast has extremely well developed mini moto and bucket racing with numerous event, series and venues. What an opportunity!
Did you see a large group of school kids turned up at Manfeild for a mini moto "build and ride" project? See mylaps. I spoke to the organiser and he said it's a huge success. He also said he tried to cross connect this to the mainstream clubs in this area and they turned him down. He thought this interest could be nurtured through into club level Streetstock / Buckets.
So the kids are there, the interest is there, the bikes, rules, events and circuits are all go.
I'll say it again. What's missing is the club commitment and leadership. It's the key factor in Canterbury. That's a fact.

Now just my opinion on other things coming through in this thread. I've trained and sat down talking to heaps of 10 -13 year olds that have whizzed around big tracks on the little 50's. None of them tell me it's boring. So I'm guessing the opinions here are just an adults out of touch guess at what an 11 year old thinks is exciting or not.

[oyster]

And interesting to read of the 9 year old racing in the Hawkes Bay.
Imagine if there was a whole grid full of them and they had their own racing!
That's the good news

The bad news is that he's too young to race on tarmac via MNZ rules. If there was a serious accident whoever is organising this is in very hot water. I checked this many years ago with my solicitor when I was running junior training on kart tracks.
The answer is to comply to MNZ rules. Easy

When he's 10 they just need to add "young junior RR" to the permit and have him/her on a complying bike. Easier than easy

And if they run specific training events for juniors, all they need is a permit which is free, a grade 2 steward, and basic first aid. Easy again

What's the hold up?????

[Shorty_925]

And interesting to read of the 9 year old racing in the Hawkes Bay.

I think he's almost 13.

[oyster]

just add his class to the permit and it's done

[Shorty_925]

Was just clearing it up.

In some ways the rules hold a junior class back for the 10-13 bracket, being that limited to 50cc's, not too many of those bikes(not scooters) around.

I agree that creating a 85cc supermotard class might work at the kart tracks to get people hooked, build it and they will come maybe.

[SWERVE]

Sorry Slowpoke but I have to dismantle the myth (yet again)
"In the South Island it works because of... blah blah lots of irelevant matters."

It works in the South because Motorcycling Canterbury has committed to the task of junior development (as most other sports already do) No other reason.

In fact the south is quite disadvantaged in that there is very little short circuit / small bike stuff here. Outside of Motorcycling Canterbury events the only bucket racing is at BEARS meetings who are anti junior. And thats only about 5 per year max
The north in contrast has extremely well developed mini moto and bucket racing with numerous event, series and venues. What an opportunity!
Did you see a large group of school kids turned up at Manfeild for a mini moto "build and ride" project? See mylaps. I spoke to the organiser and he said it's a huge success. He also said he tried to cross connect this to the mainstream clubs in this area and they turned him down. He thought this interest could be nurtured through into club level Streetstock / Buckets.
So the kids are there, the interest is there, the bikes, rules, events and circuits are all go.
I'll say it again. What's missing is the club commitment and leadership. It's the key factor in Canterbury. That's a fact.

Now just my opinion on other things coming through in this thread. I've trained and sat down talking to heaps of 10 -13 year olds that have whizzed around big tracks on the little 50's. None of them tell me it's boring. So I'm guessing the opinions here are just an adults out of touch guess at what an 11 year old thinks is exciting or not.
Yeah Pete
That mino moto build/race challange is an event between schools which chose to enroll (usually thru their tech studies courses) It is headed by Fielding high school (i know the headmaster there) I tried to get Anthonys school signed up last year (Ellesmere Collage) but they said it was too far to take the kids etc (even when i mentioned poss financial help) It wasnt RUGBY so they werent interested.
I believe a couple of ChCh schools did go and did pretty well.
I believe Arron Slight was at the race day in the previous year.
But it would have been a great opportunity for Suzuki NZ/or other pro teams & clubs to promote at a target/captive organisation.
Could run it at Ruapuna ...........! But most participating schools are up North......................oh the irony of it all eh:facepalm:

[Shaun]

Yeah Pete
That mino moto build/race challange is an event between schools which chose to enroll (usually thru their tech studies courses) It is headed by Fielding high school (i know the headmaster there) I tried to get Anthonys school signed up last year (Ellesmere Collage) but they said it was too far to take the kids etc (even when i mentioned poss financial help) It wasnt RUGBY so they werent interested.
I believe a couple of ChCh schools did go and did pretty well.
I believe Arron Slight was at the race day in the previous year.
But it would have been a great opportunity for Suzuki NZ/or other pro teams & clubs to promote at a target/captive organisation.
Could run it at Ruapuna ...........! But most participating schools are up North......................oh the irony of it all eh:facepalm:



I went to the mini moto show at Manfeild this year and it was cool, some of the bikes and stuff used to build them was cool. The Enthusiasm and racing was awsome to see

[oyster]

But did these clubs take this opportunity? I was told they were well advised but turned it down. Crazy eh, a huge pool of interest and talent right on the doorstep
(Feilding)
Can these clubs really say they're "Fostering the sport"?
Mind you, I've always been convinced there's no shortage of keen youngsters. I had a lady teacher I was coaching in Streetstock a year or two back and she said that what we offered would be great for the 14 year olds she was teaching, and offered to promote it. I said we'd have to be careful as we might get overwhelmed by the response. But we went ahead and sure enough, a heap of interest and we were quite busy for while getting these youngsters from Shirley Boys under way.
That's only one class from one school!

I hope you agree Merv that Canterbury is successful owing largely to the leadership decision to make Junior development a way of it's business. Other clubs need to know this so they can discard the "we can't do it here" bullshit

[Moooools]

And interesting to read of the 9 year old racing in the Hawkes Bay.
Imagine if there was a whole grid full of them and they had their own racing!
That's the good news

The bad news is that he's too young to race on tarmac via MNZ rules. If there was a serious accident whoever is organising this is in very hot water. I checked this many years ago with my solicitor when I was running junior training on kart tracks.
The answer is to comply to MNZ rules. Easy

When he's 10 they just need to add "young junior RR" to the permit and have him/her on a complying bike. Easier than easy

And if they run specific training events for juniors, all they need is a permit which is free, a grade 2 steward, and basic first aid. Easy again

What's the hold up?????

Don't quote me on the nine years old. That is just what someone told me...

[slowpoke]

Sorry Slowpoke but I have to dismantle the myth (yet again)
"In the South Island it works because of... blah blah lots of irelevant matters."

It works in the South because Motorcycling Canterbury has committed to the task of junior development (as most other sports already do) No other reason.

In fact the south is quite disadvantaged in that there is very little short circuit / small bike stuff here. Outside of Motorcycling Canterbury events the only bucket racing is at BEARS meetings who are anti junior. And thats only about 5 per year max
The north in contrast has extremely well developed mini moto and bucket racing with numerous event, series and venues. What an opportunity!
Did you see a large group of school kids turned up at Manfeild for a mini moto "build and ride" project? See mylaps. I spoke to the organiser and he said it's a huge success. He also said he tried to cross connect this to the mainstream clubs in this area and they turned him down. He thought this interest could be nurtured through into club level Streetstock / Buckets.
So the kids are there, the interest is there, the bikes, rules, events and circuits are all go.
I'll say it again. What's missing is the club commitment and leadership. It's the key factor in Canterbury. That's a fact.

Now just my opinion on other things coming through in this thread. I've trained and sat down talking to heaps of 10 -13 year olds that have whizzed around big tracks on the little 50's. None of them tell me it's boring. So I'm guessing the opinions here are just an adults out of touch guess at what an 11 year old thinks is exciting or not.

Haha, there's only one "adult" here and it certainly ain't me! I've got 12 months living to fit into the 6 months a year I'm home so there's no time for that growing up shit.

But it's obvious you've got your very set ideas and nobody's gonna change 'em so I'll happily leave ya to it.

[Shaun]

What I am seeing in this thread is there are ALL the people and Knoledge here write NOW TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!!! accept NO ONE is bending in the mddle and putting a committee of passion and knoledge together to work as a TEAM to MAKE this happen?

Carry on the debate boys

[slowpoke]

What I am seeing in this thread is there are ALL the people and Knoledge here write NOW TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!!! accept NO ONE is bending in the mddle and putting a committee of passion and knoledge together to work as a TEAM to MAKE this happen?


For a bloke who likes to head butt dry stone walls you're a scarily smart fella sometimes Mr Harris.

[gixerracer]

I went to the mini moto show at Manfeild this year and it was cool, some of the bikes and stuff used to build them was cool. The Enthusiasm and racing was awsome to see

And the young shirriffs girl kicked arse ae:love:

[Shaun]

And the young shirriffs girl kicked arse ae:love:



I forgot her name. But man did she smoke em, just like a younger Craig I once new

[FROSTY]

Actually nail on the head stuff I like others perhaps am living in the 80's/90's
So why not create a race class for bikes that are currently available and used in NZ
It would be cool to see the kids fitting road tyres to their KX80's etc and having a Junior road race type event. I wonder how many JUNIOR MX events have MNZ permits

[oyster]

Sorry if I'm gettin up your nose Slowpoke. But for ten years I've got pissed off with the all the experts crapping on about how it can't be done, when, if they opened their eyes they'd see it is actually BEING DONE. Sorry if a can't change my ideas, but they're forged by experience, observations and facts. Enlighten me where you think I've got it wrong.

[Billy]

Sorry if I'm gettin up your nose Slowpoke. But for ten years I've got pissed off with the all the experts crapping on about how it can't be done, when, if they opened their eyes they'd see it is actually BEING DONE. Sorry if a can't change my ideas, but they're forged by experience, observations and facts. Enlighten me where you think I've got it wrong.

No mate,Dont apologise for being right,The sad fact is the North Island clubs are just happier to sit back and hope like fuck that things happen by themselves,I have approached 3 North Island clubs and tried to get something happening and the sad fact is they think theyre already cracking it and dont need any help.Much easier too blame somebody else for their piss poor attempts,Ive resigned myself to just sending anybody that looks like theyve got the attitude down to you guys,Hopefully Jason's been in touch with you about Tyler,Spoke too him last night and he seemed keen enough

[Billy]

Actually nail on the head stuff I like others perhaps am living in the 80's/90's
So why not create a race class for bikes that are currently available and used in NZ
It would be cool to see the kids fitting road tyres to their KX80's etc and having a Junior road race type event. I wonder how many JUNIOR MX events have MNZ permits

Sod MNZ ???Oh so its MNZs fault now that the clubs cant be arsed fostering the sport like MCC do???WTF!!!

[FROSTY]

Sod MNZ ???Oh so its MNZs fault now that the clubs cant be arsed fostering the sport like MCC do???WTF!!!
Well actually to a degree yes and the reason I say sod MNZ.
The kids to grab IMO are the 8-12 year olds who currently are on KX65's and the likes.
Show them and their parents that road racing can be and is just as much fun.
BUT-How can you get an 8 year old onto even a kart track for a race? Licence wise that is.
Yet the same 8 year old could be on the self same track in a 100cc kart or getting about 15 feet of air on a Full race MX bike.
THAT is the issue I refer to and I genuinely feel that the age rule needs to be addressed as a matter of some importance.
Don't get me wrong Billy I hear your frustration because the issue of clubs not "feeding the funnel" and encourageing/fostering the young blood is a very real one. I know you feel like you are banging your head on a brick wall.
I don't know the answer and right now I'm not in a position to physically be "that guy" like oyster was.

SO Billy --serious question mate -what can I and others possibly interested actually do to help? What things need to be done?

[FROSTY]

Billy just something maybee to concider--the three "clubs" you aproached.
Realiity is you spoke to three race committees or club representatives.
The thing with those "jobs" though is they are not set in stone.
As the people in clubs comittees change so also can attitudes within the commitees.
Sorry if this seems like total waffle but the point is that you might have heard NO or worse -ahh we can't be bothered 20 times. If you capture the imagination of ONE person on a race comittee in the NI then things may start to change

[Billy]

Well actually to a degree yes and the reason I say sod MNZ.
The kids to grab IMO are the 8-12 year olds who currently are on KX65's and the likes.
Show them and their parents that road racing can be and is just as much fun.
BUT-How can you get an 8 year old onto even a kart track for a race? Licence wise that is.
Yet the same 8 year old could be on the self same track in a 100cc kart or getting about 15 feet of air on a Full race MX bike.
THAT is the issue I refer to and I genuinely feel that the age rule needs to be addressed as a matter of some importance.
Don't get me wrong Billy I hear your frustration because the issue of clubs not "feeding the funnel" and encourageing/fostering the young blood is a very real one. I know you feel like you are banging your head on a brick wall.
I don't know the answer and right now I'm not in a position to physically be "that guy" like oyster was.

SO Billy --serious question mate -what can I and others possibly interested actually do to help? What things need to be done?

MNZ are currently working on an entry level junior class,Unfortunately the costs in my opinion are going to kill it,Its all very well for the keyboard experts to climb on an internet website and make outrageous claims without any research or any idea how its going to work,Ideas with the backing of the likes of Peter Clifford have achieved nothing in NZ,The idea of Johnny down the street putting road tyres on his KX85 and giving it a go holds a small amount of merit,But tell me whos going to run these meetings???Surely not the NI clubs who dont promote the classes available too them now!!!MNZ through the foresight of Paul Stewart and with input from Oyster and a number of others came up with the Prolite 250 class over 2 years ago,Now that the class has National recognition due to mine and a handful of others efforts its set to balloon at the Nationals this year,Add that to the effort put in by Hyosung NZ with their Hyosung GT250 cup with a rumored 30 plus entrants for the AMCC series and your starting to make progress,Sure its not even close to the accomplishments at MCC but its a fucking good start,Oh and which club instigated all this,Thats right NONE.

What can you and others do to help?Listen to Oyster and the guys at MCC and back them up,DON'T call me Im done!!!

[Wingnut]

I don't believe you will ever truely be able to compete against the Dirtbike scene.

Road Racing is only really available on specific race/training/track days - At nearly any given time you can throw a dirtbike on the trailer and head out for a fang on it. Not only access - there is no significant fee to pay for a ride on "Joe Farmers" track etc.

At top level racing the $$ are no doubt spent in the dirt scene, but initially, its just sooo much easier to stick to dirt. Hard to compete on a "bang for ya buck" front.

If NZ only had a Casey Stoner........... But then again it probably wouldn't get the coverage or recognition it deserves.

[Buddha#81]

I've been watching this with interest, my oldest turns 10 early next month and thats when he hopefully will be starting in MCI's training class. He will have a good three years going though their well proven training system.

[Robert Taylor]

I don't believe you will ever truely be able to compete against the Dirtbike scene.

Road Racing is only really available on specific race/training/track days - At nearly any given time you can throw a dirtbike on the trailer and head out for a fang on it. Not only access - there is no significant fee to pay for a ride on "Joe Farmers" track etc.

At top level racing the $$ are no doubt spent in the dirt scene, but initially, its just sooo much easier to stick to dirt. Hard to compete on a "bang for ya buck" front.

If NZ only had a Casey Stoner........... But then again it probably wouldn't get the coverage or recognition it deserves.

We dont need a pompous brat like stoner, we need a Lorenzo

[cowpoos]

We dont need a pompous brat like stoner, we need a Lorenzo

I'd rather have a stoner than a Lorenzo...he's as fast as they come...can ride around a crap bike and set up...obviously smarter and more talented than Lorenzo!

[oyster]

Consider this.

An average family has a couple of youngsters.

A boy aged 11 who has a little RG 50,
his dad has prepped it up to MNZ RR rules for Young Junior Road Race. They've bought his riding gear and MNZ licence. He has very little experience in riding all all,
but idolises Valentino Rossi

His big sister is 14 and same again, except she has an RG 150 and her hero is Avalon Biddle

So they contact their local club running road racing and get the entry form for their club event, looking forward to getting underway. Just where in new Zealand will they be welcolmed, safely cared for and appreciated? Will they get the requisite training stipulated in MNZ rules?
22-12-2 2
"Where the rider does not have a current driving licence, that rider shall receive motorcycle riding lessons and a minimum of one day's full coaching of road racing with an approved (MNZ qualified) coach prior to racing"

Avalon Biddle travelled to Christchurch to get this as did Dam Mettam and many other North Island youngsters

Would the hypethetical brother and sister I describe above get what they need anywhere else in NZ
And if the can't get it, why not?

[cowpoos]

Consider this.

An average family has a couple of youngsters.

A boy aged 11 who has a little RG 50,
his dad has prepped it up to MNZ RR rules for Young Junior Road Race. They've bought his riding gear and MNZ licence. He has very little experience in riding all all,
but idolises Valentino Rossi

His big sister is 14 and same again, except she has an RG 150 and her hero is Avalon Biddle

So they contact their local club running road racing and get the entry form for their club event, looking forward to getting underway. Just where in new Zealand will they be welcolmed, safely cared for and appreciated? Will they get the requisite training stipulated in MNZ rules?
22-12-2 2
"Where the rider does not have a current driving licence, that rider shall receive motorcycle riding lessons and a minimum of one day's full coaching of road racing with an approved (MNZ qualified) coach prior to racing"

Avalon Biddle travelled to Christchurch to get this as did Dam Mettam and many other North Island youngsters

Would the hypethetical brother and sister I describe above get what they need anywhere else in NZ
And if the can't get it, why not?

That is a hell of an obvious point....and a hell of a good point. I was completely unaware of those rules.

[CHOPPA]

Well if theres anything I can do to help let me know

[CHOPPA]

My boy is 10 months, he prob wont wanna ride bikes my luck! But if he does he will have the opportunity....

ATM he has an LT50 and a QR50

When he is 4 he will have a KTM 50SX

6 years - KTM 65 and a Polini Mini Moto

8 years - KTM 85 and a Metrakit or a faster Polini

13 years he can make the decision to road race on a Moto 3 style bike, MX race or join the royal NZ ballet

[oyster]

Hi chop
I've only spoken to you a couple of times, but I'm convinced you're for real on this matter. I've not had much to do with recruiting young motox riders over to RR, my hands have been too full with the numbers coming from any source!
But given your background, you might well be the guy who can scout this community and introduce some 13/14 year olds to RR. Just remember at this age they're hugely self conscious so they need a patient and supportive approach.
They'll worry like hell it'll end up them looking like real dick. So "buddy" them, guide them along every step till they're underway. Not hard at all, and immensely satisfying. You'll have a few moments of doubt, that's the curved ball of teenage behaviour that'll be thrown at ya!

It's that crucial "recruit / support" stage you have to help them through.

[CHOPPA]

Consider this.

An average family has a couple of youngsters.

A boy aged 11 who has a little RG 50,
his dad has prepped it up to MNZ RR rules for Young Junior Road Race. They've bought his riding gear and MNZ licence. He has very little experience in riding all all,
but idolises Valentino Rossi

His big sister is 14 and same again, except she has an RG 150 and her hero is Avalon Biddle

So they contact their local club running road racing and get the entry form for their club event, looking forward to getting underway. Just where in new Zealand will they be welcolmed, safely cared for and appreciated? Will they get the requisite training stipulated in MNZ rules?
22-12-2 2
"Where the rider does not have a current driving licence, that rider shall receive motorcycle riding lessons and a minimum of one day's full coaching of road racing with an approved (MNZ qualified) coach prior to racing"

Avalon Biddle travelled to Christchurch to get this as did Dam Mettam and many other North Island youngsters

Would the hypethetical brother and sister I describe above get what they need anywhere else in NZ
And if the can't get it, why not?

How do I become a MNZ qualified coach?

[oyster]

That's a question for MNZ. I note they're making a real effort to train new stewards and other roles in the sport, but nothing I'm aware of re coaching.
It would be about 7 years ago MNZ (Trevor Gill was the boss) arranged a "Coach the Coaches" course which had two seminars, one south and the other north. I travelled up from Invercargill for the Chch one which had about 30 people there from all over the SI, all clubs and codes under MNZ. It was outstanding, run by Nick Reader who now is fully committed to other work (Epic Events) A few years ago Motorcycling Canterbury contacted MNZ repeatedly for repeat, but gave up and decided to arrange/fund it independently. Unfortunately Nick Reader could not do it owing to his new work, so we engaged Anthony Sproull. He is very good and has run a lot of workshops for club members who were interested. It's made a big difference to give members the confidence to go out and be coaches. That's why we can have so many new young riders moving forward with a safe watchful eye over them from regular club members.
As I understand it the "MNZ approved coach" is one with the cert from this Nick Reader course. Maybe a comment here from MNZ to confirm /clarify?

Just adding a note. I stress these courses are about coaching, not riding bikes. Having Nick and Anthony both heavily involved in bikes is big help tho, as they tailor the coursework to specific bike coaching relevance
I imagine Brian Bernard, Karel Pavich and the ART program people at Puke are up with this stuff, but their experience is more along the lines of 1 day training. Sports coaching is a much more long term relationship with the rider, maybe of years duration.

[gixerracer]

That's a question for MNZ. I note they're making a real effort to train new stewards and other roles in the sport, but nothing I'm aware of re coaching.
It would be about 7 years ago MNZ (Trevor Gill was the boss) arranged a "Coach the Coaches" course which had two seminars, one south and the other north. I travelled up from Invercargill for the Chch one which had about 30 people there from all over the SI, all clubs and codes under MNZ. It was outstanding, run by Nick Reader who now is fully committed to other work (Epic Events) A few years ago Motorcycling Canterbury contacted MNZ repeatedly for repeat, but gave up and decided to arrange/fund it independently. Unfortunately Nick Reader could not do it owing to his new work, so we engaged Anthony Sproull. He is very good and has run a lot of workshops for club members who were interested. It's made a big difference to give members the confidence to go out and be coaches. That's why we can have so many new young riders moving forward with a safe watchful eye over them from regular club members.
As I understand it the "MNZ approved coach" is one with the cert from this Nick Reader course. Maybe a comment here from MNZ to confirm /clarify?

Just adding a note. I stress these courses are about coaching, not riding bikes. Having Nick and Anthony both heavily involved in bikes is big help tho, as they tailor the coursework to specific bike coaching relevance
I imagine Brian Bernard, Karel Pavich and the ART program people at Puke are up with this stuff, but their experience is more along the lines of 1 day training. Sports coaching is a much more long term relationship with the rider, maybe of years duration.

Wasnt Andrew Hardisty a coach also?? He was a great Road Racer and no noeed to go in to his MX credentials.
He works/owns MotoGB in Taurunga may be worth asking him> Just a thought

[White trash]

13 years he can make the decision to road race on a Moto 3 style bike, MX race or join the royal NZ ballet

I had a mate that was a member of the Royal NZ Ballet. LIttle bastard had hot chicks waiting for him in every fricken international city they travelled to.

[oyster]

And coaching is not important just for the safety and welfare of new inductions. In recent years good coaching relationships have put many teenagers on the top spot, winning New Zealand championships
Sam Smith coached by Dave Cole, Hugh Anderson
Karl Morgan, by John Connor, Brian Bernard, Ray Clee
Alistair Hoogenboezem, by Steve Ward
Johnny Small, by Johnny Hepburn
Cam Jones, by Steve Ward, Dom Jones
Tim Mc Arthur and Jake lewis, by Kev Goddard

Not to mention a heap of other high acheivers and club riders helped out by the likes of Dennis Charlett, Merv Orford, Hamish Laing, Shaun Harris, Jamie and Wes Rajek, Steve Bagshaw, Grant Ramage, John Ross, Andy Evans, Graeme Billington. Too many to remember actually, especially here in Canterbury. Probably quite a few up north too.

A year or two back I was unpacking a trailer load of bikes at Levels when a van pulled up. Out popped Glen Sneesby, who I'd been coaching since he was 11.
He said straight away. "Hi Pete, what can I do to help with coaching today? I'm all set to go." And he did an outstanding job all day, and even tho he still at school, he didn't accept any payment from me for his expenses.
As they say "Feed a man a fish, he's fed for a day, teach him how to fish, he's fed for a lifetime..."

They are the heros of our sport! Please respect them!

[FROSTY]

Consider this.

An average family has a couple of youngsters.

A boy aged 11 who has a little RG 50,
his dad has prepped it up to MNZ RR rules for Young Junior Road Race. They've bought his riding gear and MNZ licence. He has very little experience in riding all all,
but idolises Valentino Rossi

His big sister is 14 and same again, except she has an RG 150 and her hero is Avalon Biddle

So they contact their local club running road racing and get the entry form for their club event, looking forward to getting underway. Just where in new Zealand will they be welcolmed, safely cared for and appreciated? Will they get the requisite training stipulated in MNZ rules?
22-12-2 2
"Where the rider does not have a current driving licence, that rider shall receive motorcycle riding lessons and a minimum of one day's full coaching of road racing with an approved (MNZ qualified) coach prior to racing"

Avalon Biddle travelled to Christchurch to get this as did Dam Mettam and many other North Island youngsters

Would the hypethetical brother and sister I describe above get what they need anywhere else in NZ
And if the can't get it, why not?
Oyster In dauckland you have hit nail firmly on the head.
Lets talk "real" tracks for a moment. Pukiehole- an hour out of auckland. $3000 a day to hire. Hampton downs 1.5 hours out and $4500 plus to hire.
Ok then Wellington-- Nearest track -Minefeild -1.5/2 hours out
Tauranga -nearest track -1.5 hours away.
I know you feel this is "excuses excuses" but we just don't have the ready access to tracks like you do at ruapuna.
Which is why before I became involved in this 7 day a week buisiness I was talking to you so much about F5 and F4.
"Bucket" tracks ARE available -In dauckland theres mt wellington. In wellington theres from memory 2 tracks slipway and ????
In tauranga I thought there was a kart track that had been bought back to life.
So litle johhny has his RG/tzr/nzr 50 or maybee even his drz110/PW80/
His big sister has a cbr125/yzf125/suzuki 150.
Break the "bucket" mentality and you have a full on feeder race class -the kid goes from a 50 to an 80 maybee to a 125/150 then with some racecraft under their belt can move if they choose to a 250 prolite or if on a smaller budget a 150ss
Then its also feasable to organise training afternoons/days for these kids. Its then dooable like it is/was for you at ruapuna.

[FROSTY]

entrants for the AMCC series and your starting to make progress,Sure its not even close to the accomplishments at MCC but its a fucking good start,Oh and which club instigated all this,Thats right NONE.
Again Billy I get you being pissed off with not being listened to.
I felt the exact same way regarding track days.
When I was floating the idea of trackdays being a great way to bridge the gap between racing and road riding the then management of AMCC were downright scathing. I went ahead anyway and others followed a year or so later using the same formula of trackdays run like race meetings.(and in fairness did a better job)
NOW 7 years later the very people who were at the very first KB trackdays are running full on AMCC trackdays/training days.
Your efforts with the 250 class might have been just the match needed to create the jugernaught we knew in the heyday of the 250 proddy days.

[Kickaha]

Break the "bucket" mentality .

The only Bucket mentality is held by those who don't race them and can't get over what they were 15-20+ years ago

However it is a proper Formula class with it's own club championships and even NZ titles and even when I raced my first meetings 15 years or so ago it was a very competitive class

[gixerracer]

The only Bucket mentality is held by those who don't race them and can't get over what they were 15-20+ years ago

However it is a proper Formula class with it's own club championships and even NZ titles and even when I raced my first meetings 15 years or so ago it was a very competitive class

If I never went bucket racing I can guarantee I would not have gone road racing. I taught me the basics of racing on tarmac and how to be aggressive, I may have had that from the start from my MX days but you would have to ask my fellow competitors:innocent:

[Shaun]

If I never went bucket racing I can guarantee I would not have gone road racing. I taught me the basics of racing on tarmac and how to be aggressive, I may have had that from the start from my MX days but you would have to ask my fellow competitors:innocent:



I did, and they all say you were and are a Prick

[cowpoos]

I did, and they all say you were and are a Prick

and he ate their lunch!

[FROSTY]

The only Bucket mentality is held by those who don't race them and can't get over what they were 15-20+ years ago

However it is a proper Formula class with it's own club championships and even NZ titles and even when I raced my first meetings 15 years or so ago it was a very competitive class
There is a general association with the word bucket in the racing fraternity.
They are as you say a formula class so should be refered to as such. F4 and F5
thus disconnecting the association with 15 years ago.

[Kickaha]

There is a general association with the word bucket in the racing fraternity.
They are as you say a formula class so should be refered to as such. F4 and F5
thus disconnecting the association with 15 years ago.

There is only a general association in the racing fraternity with the word bucket being used as a negative by the truly ignorant

I don't ever believe they should be referred to as F4/F5 alone as they have a class history as Buckets which is probably longer than any other class currently racing except for maybe the Sidecars

[Shaun]

There is only a general association in the racing fraternity with the word bucket being used as a negative by the truly ignorant

I don't ever believe they should be referred to as F4/F5 alone as they have a class history as Buckets which is probably longer than any other class currently racing except for maybe the Sidecars

Trendy snob

[slowpoke]

Again Billy I get you being pissed off with not being listened to.


Not at you Billy, but the following is more for those passionate people (me included) who get dispirited and shat off when the ducks refuse to refuse to line up, the cats refuse to be herded, and the jelly won't stay nailed to the ceiling:

1. Everyone has their different opinions and everyone thinks they're right. Stay open minded, things aren't always as they seem.
2. Everyone's priorities are different, and saying someone elses priorities are wrong doesn't necessarily make it so.
3. Everyone has their own ideas of how to improve the sport and quite often they are all absolutely right, (see 1 and 2 above)
4. Trying to get someone who is already overwhelmed/pissed off/broke to listen, let alone act is a big ask, but is ultimately better achieved with the aid of sugar rather than salt.
5. People try to win too many arguments instead of agreeing to disagree.
6. This isn't life and death, it's sport. It's supposed to be fun, both on and off the track. Enjoy yourselves, goddamnit!

Not meaning to be patronisng with the above, I'm as guilty as anybody with not following my own advice. Thank fuck for an understanding doctor and a medicinal alcohol prescription.

[slowpoke]

bloody sausage fingers = double post

[Shaun]

This thread was started by a genuine man wanting to help or sport and it;s future, and there has been some healthy things said so far, DO NOT STOP posting folks, it is all being watched from above and WILL help the future given time:yes:

[oyster]

I hear what you're saying Frosty about track access and cost. But I'm sorry to say this is one of one of the common northern myths about why we can do it here and you guys can't up there. Apart from a few twilight training sessions in summer (and yep, you guys don't get twilight) 90% of junior development is done thru bone fide classes within regular race meetings. Same opportunity as any big or small circuit meeting around NZ. Better still we have (for many years) used the inevitable time gaps during meetings that are paid for, are covered by first aid, stewardship and a permit. These are the little "gaps" ideal for training of the brand new and very young riders. The beauty of this too is the ready availability bikes and coaches to go out with them. This is how it's been done down here for many many years. And it works.
More crucially, having these newcomers and very young riders at a regular meeting
gives them a sense of inclusion, and ambition to press on to the top. Ditto for having Streetstock at the Nationals. The excitement and motivation these young ones derived from being involved in the championship meetings is one of the big drivers of their own future championship ambitions. Look at the stats, it's a well
proven connection. Then look at the clubs whose support classes at nats are a parade of old guys riding old bikes. These clubs produce very little, if any youth at national level.

[scott411]

This thread was started by a genuine man wanting to help or sport and it;s future, and there has been some healthy things said so far, DO NOT STOP posting folks, it is all being watched from above and WILL help the future given time:yes:

there needs to be more than talking to get this to happen, Choppa has already said that he does not have the time to do it, but as what happened with Streetstock in Canterbury is that a group of people stopped talking, and went and did it, the people currently give up a heap of there own time running the meetings are not interested in doing it, then someone else will have to, but until that one person or a group steps up it will be only talk,

and if you are not willing to do it yourself, i do not think it is fair to bag others who will not as well,


1. Everyone has their different opinions and everyone thinks they're right. Stay open minded, things aren't always as they seem.
2. Everyone's priorities are different, and saying someone elses priorities are wrong doesn't necessarily make it so.
3. Everyone has their own ideas of how to improve the sport and quite often they are all absolutely right, (see 1 and 2 above)
4. Trying to get someone who is already overwhelmed/pissed off/broke to listen, let alone act is a big ask, but is ultimately better achieved with the aid of sugar rather than salt.
5. People try to win too many arguments instead of agreeing to disagree.
6. This isn't life and death, it's sport. It's supposed to be fun, both on and off the track. Enjoy yourselves, goddamnit!


this is the best thing i have ever read in this forum, great post

[Shaun]

there needs to be more than talking to get this to happen, Choppa has already said that he does not have the time to do it, but as what happened with Streetstock in Canterbury is that a group of people stopped talking, and went and did it, the people currently give up a heap of there own time running the meetings are not interested in doing it, then someone else will have to, but until that one person or a group steps up it will be only talk,

and if you are not willing to do it yourself, i do not think it is fair to bag others who will not as well,





this is the best thing i have ever read in this forum, great post


All I was meaning from my post is what you have said in a nicer choice of words mate, I was NOT bagging any one

[oyster]

There's a bit of work involved, but bugger all. The big step is the culture change at club leadership level.
A couple of years ago at the MNZ AGM in Nelson the room was full at the RR workshop. Geoff Cain, Motorcycling Canterbury president, stood up and gave quite a good speech about the huge benefits the club has derived by committing to junior development. More riders, more money, elite results, more people involved in club and meeting management. Winning in every quarter. A round of applause and few other commented. Then Chris Costello of Auckland stood up and said "We could never have Streetstock here, they're so slow it would be as boring as watching paint dry" Fair enough, he was honest about his club's stand on this. And it was true, about this time I bought a 150 from a family up there who'd got all set to go and even went to meeting only to be turned away. So they sold the bike and went Karting instead
Fast forward. Very soon the Hyosung Cup will be underway. I don't doubt it'll be a big success. And yet these bikes are even slower and less "racey" that the bike Chris talked about. Why will it succeed? Cos the the club said "YES". They made a new class (not even MNZ! ) Then a commercial enterprise got stuck with the basics I've been talking about for years and years. Promote, Recruit, Train, Support and Recognise. All easy stuff.

That's all that's needed, the leaders to push the "go" button

[jellywrestler]

13 years he can make the decision to road race on a Moto 3 style bike, MX race and join the royal NZ ballet
Fixed it for ya.
Asphalt is for racing on, dirt is for house-training kittens...

[scott411]

Asphalt is for getting there, dirt is racing

thats better

[puddytat]

Well I reckon you just need to look at buckets & Streetstock & see the folk racing them ....most of them would own a faster bike, but choose to race a bucket....Why?
Because they are way cheaper to race & the Streetstock would be faster still,& as someone once said "race the bike you can afford to crash"...perfect for learning on.
I started as a "senior' on my R6 in Clubmans & soon realised that I was running before I could walk so to speak & then got a prolite which Ive enjoyed much more & more importantly, it taught me way more about racing than the R6 which was way quicker than I was:yes:
Man, you should see the pit wall at Ruapuna at a club day...full with all sorts watching the SS & Buckets going at it. And even as a self confessed "old fart" I try my hardest to take it to the young fellas....just need that extra 4 secs or so to stick with Seth, Johnny et al:yes:
Oyster raises many good points about the youngsters & the fragility of thier ego...encourage them & they bloom.:yes:Good on ya MCC, thats why 2 of them are trying out in Europe for the Rookie Cup
I'd love a crack on a quick bike again 'cause I reckon what I ve learnt in Prolite would've possibly gained me up to 10 secs on my P.B on the R6.:yes:

[J_Buell]

I've only just got into the road racing thing in the past year, and its awesome im hooked for life. Previous to racing I was trail riding for 10 years, and its only within the last two years that I found out about the winter series came to watch some racing and then decided to compete in Streetstock.

To be honest I think it has less to do with how attractive the bikes are to race, and more to do with the fact that nobody knows it exists. From what I can see the sport has too low a profile especially compared to motocross or karting, which in all reality is the market in which road racing is competing.

How to raise the profile of the sport I don't know (should have studied marketing at uni instead of engineering) but if you can get more people to attend events, show them how enjoyable it is then you will get more youth involved.

I also don't think you necessarily have to drag young guys out of motocross, you just need them to be keen, willing to learn/give anything a go, and some experience on a bike so they understand a bit about brake/throttle/clutch control.

[slowpoke]

I also don't think you necessarily have to drag young guys out of motocross, you just need them to be keen, willing to learn/give anything a go, and some experience on a bike so they understand a bit about brake/throttle/clutch control.

I think Choppa's point was that there is a ready made crop of often highly skilled young riders on sexy wee bikes that could well be on the fast track to road racing success if we can just find some way of enticng them over. Given how well he's doing, and how well other dirt converts have gone it's hard to disagree.

[Kickaha]

Well I reckon you just need to look at buckets & Streetstock & see the folk racing them ....most of them would own a faster bike, but choose to race a bucket....Why?
Because they are way cheaper to race & the Streetstock would be faster still,& as someone once said "race the bike you can afford to crash"...perfect for learning on.

A lot of the bucket guys have two or three bikes and race different classes they race buckets because it's very competitive racing and a lot more fun not because it's cheaper

That same level of competitiveness also means it isn't a good class for learning in and the good buckets will beat most of the S/S field


Given how well he's doing, and how well other dirt converts have gone it's hard to disagree.

Given how well the Juniors and S/S have done at MCC it hard to see why you would need them

[Henk]

A lot of the bucket guys have two or three bikes and race different classes they race buckets because it's very competitive racing and a lot more fun not because it's cheaper


What he said.

I'm a confirmed bucket guy and the main reason is that I can get a lot more racing in with buckets than I would with a "real bike"
On the bright side we have had quite a few young guys start up here recently so that shows some promise.
Interstingly enough one of the newer guys here got into buckets because it was cheaper than track days, not as a cheap form of racing, he has quite a bit of talent and I wouldn't be suprised to see him go to a bigger class given time and budget.

[budda]

That's a question for MNZ. I note they're making a real effort to train new stewards and other roles in the sport, but nothing I'm aware of re coaching.
.

Pete : sorry for the delay in getting back to you, havent been on here for quite a while ....... MNZ's Junior Development Standing Committee has this well in hand, they have made excellent strides in getting their new Coaching system streamlined and practical, so that when it is released it will hit the ground running.

Having already been through part of it as a "crash test Dummy", can see that once the initial formalities are dealt with, those who buy into it will certainly gain from the experience - and this will certainly have a positive flow-on effect ..........

As in most cases, lack of visible progress doesnt mean there has been none - these guys have been working long and hard on this - be prepared to support it and reap the benefits in the near future

Yours in Motorcycling
Peter R

[slowpoke]

Given how well the Juniors and S/S have done at MCC it hard to see why you would need them

Because I haven't seen a young Kiwi road racing overseas on the telly for 10 years now and I'd like to see that change. Attracting skilled young riders from a different code would help bridge the skill gap to the young overseas riders who are years ahead of our young kids. For whatever reason our dirt scene is great at producing world class riders, why not snaffle a few young guns if we can? Why limit ourselves?

[ellipsis]

.attracting kids from one code is cool...if they wanna be attracted...whats the attractant...starts there, doesn't it ?...

[slowpoke]

.attracting kids from one code is cool...if they wanna be attracted...whats the attractant...starts there, doesn't it ?...

I think that's what Choppa was getting at. I agree with him, but others don't, that's life.

[CHOPPA]

I think that's what Choppa was getting at. I agree with him, but others don't, that's life.

Yup spot on Spud, the classes that are there atm are great and I wasnt suggesting they should change but a rider that starts road racing at say 16 is never gonna be moto gp material. A kid that is a national MX champion that starts road racing at 15 or 16 could quite possibly get there.

I have been talking to a couple of current champions and they have no interest in Road Racing because it doesnt have the flair but I know if they tried it they would love it. If Kiwirider or BRM print the article im writing it might get some young minds thinking.

The other ideas I had was like a scholarship idea to offer as a prize to a MX rider if they choose to accept it that would do good things for promotion.

Maybe the whole idea im getting at is that the MNZ jnr road race commitee should maybe be looking at promoting Road Racing to young MX riders because thats where I see the talent and the already keen riders to come from

[ellipsis]

...its pretty easy for us lot down here to crack on about how easy it is to get kids in...thats because the hard work has been done... over the years, watching Pete Jones and his helpers do their stuff with the young riders has been fantastic...there were detractors down here too...dont get it wrong...older moaners worried about losing their track time to bloody kids...bloody Streetstock,like watching paint dry...I'm not paying an entry fee to come to kindergarten...etc, etc...times have changed and so have the attitudes towards our younger riders.

...I cant imagine a day at Ruapuna without our young racers being there...seems desolate without them...and to have watched them grow from little learners to complete racers over the years, has been a bit like watching your own kids grow up...to see the numbers who have made it to the top in NZ road racing is just wonderful...suits us one eyed cantabrians, also...

...Scout Fletcher , to name just one, and there are many, is just about 16...has recruited and trained other young riders...rides around a lot of older, been there done that riders, me being one of them, races classics and post classics on the track and on the street circuits and is in my eyes, one of my peers....

....only a couple of handsfull of seasons ago, they weren't there....it took a man with an idea and the love of what he was doing to get it going...the rest just follows...and the young riders keep turning up to give it a go...

[FROSTY]

A round of applause and few other commented. Then Chris Costello of Auckland stood up and said "We could never have Streetstock here, they're so slow it would be as boring as watching paint dry" Fair enough, he was honest about his club's stand on this. And it was true, about this time I bought a 150 from a family up there who'd got all set to go and even went to meeting only to be turned away. So they sold the bike and went Karting instead

Which is why Chris has stepped back I suspect.There is a more open minded RR comittee at amcc. Which is the point I was making to Billy. I genuinely feel there has been a MAJOR culture change at AMCC.
ON THAT FRONT --One BIG issue is that AMCC run bloody fantastic training days at Pukekohe. (ART) They would be totally perfect for training these kids.
BUT the current rules means that they need to have attended/competed a race meeting or hold a road licence before they can attend. In my mind that is totally arse about face. In my mind they should need to attend an ART day before a race meeting