Maori Licence

[John]

Who is watching this, who noticed that Maori fellow...

Now sorry to step on toes (I am part Maori) but bloody hell some of these greedy new age Maori just keep stirring the pot:nono:<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:16.5pt; height:14.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\JOHNMI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/nono.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:nono:<!--[endif]-->

Lets not get into issues of sovereignty and such but Jesus!

[sels1]

He had a Maori Licence +Maori Wof + Maori Rego but was quite happy to drive a non Maori car on the non Maori motorway.......
I wasnt sure whether to laugh or give him points for trying!

[rfc85]

Who is watching this, who noticed that Maori fellow...

Now sorry to step on toes (I am part Maori) but bloody hell some of these greedy new age Maori just keep stirring the pot:nono:<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:16.5pt; height:14.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\JOHNMI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\cli p_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/smilies/nono.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:nono:<!--[endif]-->

Lets not get into issues of sovereignty and such but Jesus!

Who u ? some skinney little white boy given da bros shit ?
can I take dat to winz for a advance ?

[John]

Who u ? some skinney little white boy given da bros shit ?
can I take dat to winz for a advance ?
lmao...

very accurate. Just dont beat up the winz officers

[bugjuice]

must be issued in Manuaku somewhere.. lol..
tis a bit of a joke tho, so can't be serious. The law is the law, and I bet none of the 'Maori' stuff goes into the roads and ACC....
tis funny, give 'im that. He should have claimed the hard shoulder, and charged the cop with trespass

[John]

must be issued in Manuaku somewhere.. lol..
tis a bit of a joke tho, so can't be serious. The law is the law, and I bet none of the 'Maori' stuff goes into the roads and ACC....
tis funny, give 'im that. He should have claimed the hard shoulder, and charged the cop with trespass
No but he said he was going to take it to the high court and put it on the europeans rent, funny I thought he was maori? maori dont give or rent land the land is a provider a god as such and cannot charge people for it - it can only be 'lent' as a gift and such..

[WINJA]

must be issued in Manuaku somewhere.. lol..
tis a bit of a joke tho, so can't be serious. The law is the law, and I bet none of the 'Maori' stuff goes into the roads and ACC....
tis funny, give 'im that. He should have claimed the hard shoulder, and charged the cop with trespass
BIT OF A LAUGH IS ALL , YOU CANT BLAME HIM FOR TRYING ESPECIALLY AT THE PRICE OF A REGO, I WONDER IF I CAN GET A MAORI RUC FOR OUR TRUCK

[RiderInBlack]

Fu*k'em. This "Moari Government" crap is taking things too far. Would have been shot for treasion once upon a time. They need to stop their fu*ken whinging, and shit sturring and get on with life. They are thick if they think ruleing NZ will make this country any better to live in.

[T.I.E]

They are thick if they think ruleing NZ will make this country any better to live in.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]


ha ha ha ha i don't know about that.

but being part maori its hard.
i can everyone's point of view and understand.

one thing i do know is that i am a kiwi.

scrap them both and start a new. but keep the history and recongise the maori ways and culture.

fuck that wil never happen, and it's all for one and one for all.
no one will look after me so fuck em.

i'm starting a new cult "andrewism" who's joining me?

[SixPackBack]

They are thick if they think ruleing NZ will make this country any better to live in.[/color][/font]


ha ha ha ha i don't know about that.

but being part maori its hard.
i can everyone's point of view and understand.

one thing i do know is that i am a kiwi.

scrap them both and start a new. but keep the history and recongise the maori ways and culture.

fuck that wil never happen, and it's all for one and one for all.
no one will look after me so fuck em.

i'm starting a new cult "andrewism" who's joining me?[/QUOTE]

I'm an Andrew can i join......like pakeha, maori and......fuck i like everyone!

[John]

I'm an Andrew can i join......like pakeha, maori and......fuck i like everyone!

Do you like me ? :love:

[SixPackBack]

Do you like me ? :love:

I may be cheap but i'm not easy, fuck off feltcher

[John]

I may be cheap but i'm not easy, fuck off feltcher
hey none of that you tight ass, oh well all this speights is all mine - then when I am toasted I can take advantage of myself :lol:

[SixPackBack]

hey none of that you tight ass, oh well all this speights is all mine - then when I am toasted I can take advantage of myself :lol:


Always wondered about those speights ads, if that chick behind the bar had given me the green light i'd jump the bar [ and her] [don't tell missus spb, or it'll be no jiggy for me]

[Keystone19]

[don't tell missus spb, or it'll be no jiggy for me]

Oh, can I tell her, can I, pleeeease... :devil2:

[SixPackBack]

Oh, can I tell her, can I, pleeeease... :devil2:

I'll tell mister keystone about the man you'd like to hold with your thighs [thats right sweety i hav'nt forgotten]

[Keystone19]

I'll tell mister keystone about the man you'd like to hold with your thighs [thats right sweety i hav'nt forgotten]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:grouphug: Ok, I won't tell if you won't...

[SixPackBack]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:grouphug: Ok, I won't tell if you won't...

WE are naughty

[boomer]

:rofl: Being 'european other' these claims crack me up.. shores and sea beds.. wofs ... what next.. ??? they'll be claiming my 'part moari mrs' next and charging me for the pleasure ( or pain ) :devil2:


feck it, im gonna start my own laws ( sorry andrews and fellow andrewers ) .. pommie claim the land 'BACK'.. we put the first civilised flags on this fair land therfore i claim you all owe me back rent since..... since..... 1842.. so that makes me a very very happy white boy !
:drinkup:

[Patch]

What a fuckin tosser. Maori this, maori that. Get sick of hearing it.

Funny how they think they own the land, :weird: and yet they ate the Moreore's . . . . before 1842.


Its now 2005, fuckin get over it.

[GROOMER]

:rofl: Being 'european other' these claims crack me up.. shores and sea beds.. wofs ... what next.. ??? they'll be claiming my 'part moari mrs' next and charging me for the pleasure ( or pain ) :devil2:


feck it, im gonna start my own laws ( sorry andrews and fellow andrewers ) .. pommie claim the land 'BACK'.. we put the first civilised flags on this fair land therfore i claim you all owe me back rent since..... since..... 1842.. so that makes me a very very happy white boy !
:drinkup:

Fuckers! Still, its good for a laugh :)
Whats your account number...I'll put my rent money in first thing tomorrow..hate to get eviction notice!

[boomer]

Fuckers! Still, its good for a laugh :)
Whats your account number...I'll put my rent money in first thing tomorrow..hate to get eviction notice!


indeed.. the thought of living in ozzie is enough to scare anyone into payment



ps..
01-19932822-33 Mr & Mrs Boomer

[Toast]

Funny how they think they own the land, :weird: and yet they ate the Moreore's . . . . before 1842.


Ok now, history has never been a strong point of mine, always been a future visionary sort :whistle: ...anyway, one thing I never understood, is that given that the Moreores (sp?) were infact here first, and were the pre-colonial KFC...why the #@$$!!!? do the MPs keep calling them the indigenous people of the land, and not just calling them lucky to be spared and hypocritial?

I'm quite sure the Moreores aren't just an urban myth, but can't understand they're seemingly ignored by all those who bow to the demands of that sad sect of the Maori community who continually look back upon the past and don't make use of their free schooling to be damn good people and contributors to society like many other Maoris.

WTF is up?

[Big Dave]

Why do your conversations always end up ghey lately?

But 'scuse my aussie ignorance, but I thought everyone was only 'part Maori'?

[Big Dave]

indeed.. the thought of living in ozzie is enough to scare anyone into payment



ps..
01-19932822-33 Mr & Mrs Boomer


I heard that. (And I deleted my joke - bad taste in light of other conversations.)

[Ghost Lemur]

Didn't hear about this one, but heard about the guys going around as "Maori Police" extorting money out of business.

Got to give it to them for trying.

This playing the victim that the Maori community is doing and teaching their children is getting a bit old. If they think they've got it bad here they should go live with the Aboriginal tribe in Australia, of the natives tribes (those which still exist) in the US, or the Anu in Japan, etc, etc. Bet they'd come back here appreciating what they have and can have, more.

As for rewriting history with modern "values". It's bollocks. No one alive today suffered in 1840. I can't go over to Europe and claim my ancestors Chataux, villa's and land that they had to abandon during one of the many revolutions.

[sAsLEX]

Funny how they think they own the land, :weird: and yet they ate the Moreore's . . . . before 1842.


funny how they go on about their culture not believing in owning land but in gaurdianship or something similar, we* are the gaurdians now fuck off, you can have it back when we are finished.

*kiwis with a democratically voted government, which contains a whole bunch of MPs to represent euopeans,islanders, indians, chinese, korean, american, irish, scottish et al. And then we have some special MPs to represent a tiny fraction of the population, who force the whole nation to be plastered in signs of their language even though piss all of them speak it, to represent them.

[750Y]

i wonder if You have to be 'of maori descent' to get one, or anyone can get one.
The following is what I have been told recently, the 'maori government organisation'(?) is based in Otahuhu & it is there that these documents are issued. some of the island nations accept the 'maori passport', apparently that is How Tame Iti was able to enter Fiji at the time of the coup. anyway that's my useless information for today...

[scumdog]

I wonder how much fuel he bought with his 'maori' dollars??? (He wouldn't steal fuel, - would he?)

I'm sick of this 'I'm doing nothing but hold my hand out because you whities stole my great-grand-dads land about 150 years ago' shit.

Get over it and get a life and get a job and EARN your place in society!!!



(Shuffles off back to Scotland to put a claim in at London for all the Scots women the English stole and the cattle they raped and the land they took about 300 years ago).

[Lou Girardin]

What puzzles me is, why did the Maoris leave the tropical paradise of Hawaiiki to come to this climate. It wouldn't be because they were societal rejects there and forced to leave would it?
But seeing they are here and claim to be the rightful Govt, shouldn't we be demanding they fix all the infrasructural problems and give us taxpayers a break.

[vifferman]

I'm sick of this 'I'm doing nothing but hold my hand out because you whities stole my great-grand-dads land about 150 years ago' shit.
The best comment I heard was, "Hmmmm... wonder how much I'll have to pay myself for what my European ancestors did to my Maori ancestors..."

But 'scuse my aussie ignorance, but I thought everyone was only 'part Maori'?
I'm just plucking this figure out of the air, or my arse, or summat, but I think there are less than 10% Maori who are full-blooded. However, the way it works for censuses and suchlike is that even if you are 1/64th, or "identify with a particular hapu or iwi", then that counts. How you work that out beats me ...

Yes, the Moriori were real, not an urban legend. While they are 'extinct', there are a few part-Moriori left, not many (if any) because the Maori tended to kill or enslave them, not breed with them. Check here: http://www.zealand.org.nz/moriori.htm

But seeing they are here and claim to be the rightful Govt, shouldn't we be demanding they fix all the infrasructural problems and give us taxpayers a break.
Fairy Nuff. As long as they don't resurrect more "cultural and traditional rights", such as cannibalism...

[vifferman]

Hmmmm...

Jus started reading that link to Moriori stuff. It seems that the Europeans did a pretty good job of stuffing things up for the Moriori before the Maori came and finished the job.
Not a pretty history.

[placidfemme]

Fairy Nuff. As long as they don't resurrect more "cultural and traditional rights", such as cannibalism...

Wanna come over for dinner? Please make sure you marinate yourself first... we prefer garlic... but any other spices would be fine...

[MSTRS]

Can I be the one to write the Bill Of Rights when the Republic of New Zealand is announced? I guarantee that no-one will be disavantaged except those that deserve it. Watch this space.....

[vifferman]

Can I be the one to write the Bill Of Rights when the Republic of New Zealand is announced? I guarantee that no-one will be disavantaged except those that deserve it. Watch this space.....
When I am God (cue neg rep from Zed) I will abolish nearly all laws, as there are far too many. There will be no need for a Bill of Rights.

[MSTRS]

When I am God (cue neg rep from Zed) I will abolish nearly all laws, as there are far too many. There will be no need for a Bill of Rights.
Due to the Connelly tape you narrowly avoid going to #1 on my list of ThoseThatDeserveIt

[ManDownUnder]

What puzzles me is, why did the Maoris leave the tropical paradise of Hawaiiki to come to this climate. It wouldn't be because they were societal rejects there and forced to leave would it?
Their travel agent lied to them, the photos on the brochure were photoshopped, and they were knackered by the time they got here. Not enough energy to get home (and no surprise... credit where it's due that's a HELL of a long way to paddle..!)


But seeing they are here and claim to be the rightful Govt, shouldn't we be demanding they fix all the infrasructural problems and give us taxpayers a break.

Isn't that the Maori party agenda?

[ManDownUnder]

Wanna come over for dinner? Please make sure you marinate yourself first... we prefer garlic... but any other spices would be fine...
Sure happy to help... but there's only one place I can think of to put the garlic.:buggerd:

Surely you don't want it up THERE?!?

[Big Dave]

Sure happy to help... but there's only one place I can think of to put the garlic.:buggerd:

Surely you don't want it up THERE?!?


never stuffed a chook?

[ManDownUnder]

never stuffed a chook?

With garlic up the rectum? Thanks but no...

:rofl:

[Paul in NZ]

never stuffed a chook?

Ah! You artistic types with your amusing foibles.....

But no.. seriously, I just don't look at poultry 'that' way!

:no:

[ManDownUnder]

Ah! You artistic types with your amusing foibles.....

But no.. seriously, I just don't look at poultry 'that' way!

:no:

Me either =- I was worried about the sharp edge on the bloody garlic bulb. It weren't me that suggested the damned thing be stuck in a chicken... (not that I discouraged that conversation too much either).

Why do I get that "I've just hijacked a thread" feeling?

[Big Dave]

Why do I get that "I've just hijacked a thread" feeling?

It deserved it.

[Big Dave]

Ah! You artistic types with your amusing foibles.....

But no.. seriously, I just don't look at poultry 'that' way!

:no:


(feigns pretentious) - I was speaking from a culinary - not recreational - perspective.

erotic is when you use a feather.....

[Paul in NZ]

Wanna come over for dinner? Please make sure you marinate yourself first... we prefer garlic... but any other spices would be fine...

There is a B movie in this....

"The Revenge of the Lesbian Cannibal Bikers That Ate the Spice Girls"

or something

[ManDownUnder]

There is a B movie in this....

"The Revenge of the Lesbian Cannibal Bikers That Ate the Spice Girls"

or something

Cheers for that Paul... not very often I get the "I wish this thread had NOT been hijacked" feeling... but you did it for me... :rofl:

MDU

[Jackrat]

What puzzles me is, why did the Maoris leave the tropical paradise of Hawaiiki to come to this climate. It wouldn't be because they were societal rejects there and forced to leave would it?
But seeing they are here and claim to be the rightful Govt, shouldn't we be demanding they fix all the infrasructural problems and give us taxpayers a break.

Well puzzle no more fella.
Legend has it that some dude ate some other dudes dog.
This started a war that the dog eaters backers lost.
So Dog eater an backers all jumped into a Waka an hit the road looking for a place to get away from EX dog owners backers.

There's a thingie explaining it in the AK musem.
The musem version is just a little more PC than mine.

[DingDong]

The (so called) Maori Govt did not hold refferendum(sp?) that I know about?
I am Ngai Tama, from the east coast (not far from Gizzy), I think they are going about things the wrong way.

We already have a Govt and they could win their vote in the usual manner and change laws they want to change not just invent new ones.

They are projecting themselves with an image of "we represent all maori" when they only Rep their members... most Gizzy Maori or Maori in general do not hold them in the highest regard.

They will be seen as hipocrits (spelling again?) because they have started this new Govt... to counter a crown Govt that has wrongly imposed rule over them... this new Maori Govt will wrongly impose ruling over over all Maori should they be a success.

If they try to tell me what to do... I will go freaky on them! :devil2:

Representation of Maori needs to be done through the current Govt system, but maybe a crown lead Govt is not the best thing anymore...globalisation has complicated things far too much for us as a nation to step backward but we cant forget and must always respect Tino Rangatiratanga.

[Phurrball]

The (so called) Maori Govt did not hold refferendum(sp?) that I know about?
I am Ngai Tama, from the east coast (not far from Gizzy), I think they are going about things the wrong way.

We already have a Govt and they could win their vote in the usual manner and change laws they want to change not just invent new ones.

They are projecting themselves with an image of "we represent all maori" when they only Rep their members... most Gizzy Maori or Maori in general do not hold them in the highest regard.

They will be seen as hipocrits (spelling again?) because they have started this new Govt... to counter a crown Govt that has wrongly imposed rule over them... this new Maori Govt will wrongly impose ruling over over all Maori should they be a success.

If they try to tell me what to do... I will go freaky on them! :devil2:

Representation of Maori needs to be done through the current Govt system, but maybe a crown lead Govt is not the best thing anymore...globalisation has complicated things far too much for us as a nation to step backward but we cant forget and must always respect Tino Rangatiratanga.

Well said WK -

Now, might I humbly suggest that those who authored the more vitrolic posts in this thread trot off to the bookstore/library and buy/borrow Michael King's History of New Zealand to get a little general background. It's an interesting and accessable read. Please do this. Lower levels of ignorance help keep everyone on a more even keel.

[Clockwork]

Well said WK -

Now, might I humbly suggest that those who authored the more vitrolic posts in this thread trot off to the bookstore/library and buy/borrow Michael King's History of New Zealand to get a little general background. It's an interesting and accessable read. Please do this. Lower levels of ignorance help keep everyone on a more even keel.

I'm curious. What makes you believe Michael King's version of history is any more accurate than any of his predecessors? And how does expressing an opinion that you do not agree with constitute ignorance?

[John]

Would be amazed to find any full blooded Maori around these days, in fact I will pay you to find me one, remember the mass prostitution and such, another thing the Europeans didn’t cause as much shit as has being said I think those scummy Dutch (or French to early to be thinking) did some dodgy shit in the lower south and tried to colonize NZ before the brits, but no because the Maori loved the brits.
There is no real established truths to the Moriori remember they just hung out in the lower south bays, the thing is the Maori welcomed us onto the land and offered it as a gift, sure it was taken advantage of and such, BUT the Maori themselves asked for help in governing there own people due to the introduction of alcohol and such which lead to some unruly little shits, so they asked the British council it for help they got it a few key words were lost in translation between the two races, but the thing is after a while they didn’t really care, they just wanted more of the European stuff, so when I hear all this other shit about "reclaiming" land it thoroughly fucks me off, And I can safely say that it was the most boring subject I studied, although I respect the far superior fighting ability of the Maori, which was light years beyond everyone else.

This is in no order and if you want me to actually go into detail I can :\

[RiderInBlack]

Well said WK -

Now, might I humbly suggest that those who authored the more vitrolic posts in this thread trot off to the bookstore/library and buy/borrow Michael King's History of New Zealand to get a little general background. It's an interesting and accessable read. Please do this. Lower levels of ignorance help keep everyone on a more even keel.While I agree with a lot of what WK was saying, your assumation that we have not read-up on Treaty Of Waitangi related issues is miss guided. As part of me Nursing training I had over a year of having TOW and Moari issues crammed down my throat. The Tutors even allowed us an "open" decussion on. We were pressurised into only saying things that supported their views. The one student who claimed her right not to comment on it got hammered by the Tutors.
I well aware that The New Zealand Declairation of Independance (it's up at the TOW grounds) pre-dates the Tow and reconises Northern Moari Sovereignty.
I'v have been taught that the poor health stats for Moari is because their ancestor got land taken from them.
I suggest that you read early Scotish and Irish histroy and then try to explain why their health stats are not as bad as the Moari.

Although I have no issue with the general Moari populance, I do have an Issue with the Radicals. In fact I have an Issue with most Radicals of any race. That includes KKK and any other White Supremist.

[Jackrat]

Well said WK -

Now, might I humbly suggest that those who authored the more vitrolic posts in this thread trot off to the bookstore/library and buy/borrow Michael King's History of New Zealand to get a little general background. It's an interesting and accessable read. Please do this. Lower levels of ignorance help keep everyone on a more even keel.

I've read it several times.
I also have my own family tree,Wha hua Ngapuhi and Pakeha.
So what ? it's history.
Knowing about it changes nothing.
We can't change history.

[John]

I've read it several times.
I also have my own family tree,Maori and Pakeha.
So what,it's history.
We can't change history.
Yea but we can bitch and procrastinate its what we do, and we do it really well it would seem...

[Ixion]

I'm curious. What makes you believe Michael King's version of history is any more accurate than any of his predecessors? And how does expressing an opinion that you do not agree with constitute ignorance?

Ah, indeed. There are lies, and damned lies, and then there's history books. Nothing better than a history book for a good bit of light fiction reading.

[Phurrball]

[H]ow does expressing an opinion that you do not agree with constitute ignorance?

I'd be the first to put my hand up for being ignorant; I apologise for any linguistic imprecision on my part that may have led to your perception of my comment [I appreciate it could be seen this way: check the post time; I clearly ain't sleeping or thinking too 'good' at that hour]. I don't resile from the general thrust of my comment, as background and context is all important. My personal lightning rod in the sickly pre-dawn monitor light was the mention of that oft used concept of convenience in debates such as this: 'Moriori'. People who think the Moriori are in any way relevant to a debate of this kind, and in the same breath have a go at Mäori for 'whinging' based on the events of the past are making hypocrites of themselves. I do believe that background is critical in debate such as this, so that simplistic soundbites do not get slung back and forth with no real progress. Certain political parties are cynically exploiting a lack of background of this type at present for their own gain using simplistic soundbites and billboards. [I don't want to talk politics BTW, we all have our own, thank f**k for democracy in all its imperfect glory - I take issue with the way the message is presented on occasion]


I'm curious. What makes you believe Michael King's version of history is any more accurate than any of his predecessors?

Ah, indeed. There are lies, and damned lies, and then there's history books. Nothing better than a history book for a good bit of light fiction reading.

No history will ever be complete, and totally unbiased - there will always be issues of approach, be it top-down, bottom up or tainted by a presentist viewpoint. Consider for example that most history is the history of the 'victor', not the 'vanquished'. All one can do is read and consider the material in a broader sense WRT its purpose and origin in addition to its substantive content. Michael King's History is a good one IMHO as it is essentially a macroscopic review that draws upon a lifetime of scholarship whilst being easily accessible.


While I agree with a lot of what WK was saying, your assumation that we have not read-up on Treaty Of Waitangi related issues is miss guided. As part of me Nursing training I had over a year of having TOW and Moari issues crammed down my throat. The Tutors even allowed us an "open" decussion on. We were pressurised into only saying things that supported their views. The one student who claimed her right not to comment on it got hammered by the Tutors. I agree, this style of 'education' is not helpful at all.

I'v have been taught that the poor health stats for Moari is because their ancestor got land taken from them.[/color][/font]
I suggest that you read early Scotish and Irish histroy and then try to explain why their health stats are not as bad as the Moari. I don't think that early Scotish and Irish health is a relevant comparison to Mäori health issues of the past and present. Land being alienated from Mäori [in a number of ways] during early European colonisation would have an effect, but societal factors and novel bacterial and viral diseases being introduced to an immunogically naïve population probably account better for the differences in health between these geographically isolated populations.


Although I have no issue with the general Moari populance, I do have an Issue with the Radicals. In fact I have an Issue with most Radicals of any race. That includes KKK and any other White Supremist. Theose on the extremes often lack a broader outlook, and can't see past their own prejudices. ON this we agree.



So what ? it's history.
Knowing about it changes nothing.
We can't change history.

Knowing about history gives us the foresight to avoid the mistakes of the past [Crikey that sounded idealistic...something like that anyway...:msn-wink:]

BTW I am not a historian so I can't claim any high ground of scholarship.

[Brian d marge]

linguistic imprecision

I cant even say that let alone spell it ,,,,, Must stop this drinking lark ,,,its me hobby so I might pass a motion at the next meeting :drinkup:

Any hoo that chap, ,,,I dont reconise your laws we have our own ! He definatly gets a beer from me for trying it on!!!

( hey I bounced off a diplomat once ,,and the old bill behing me said he could do nought ,,,because of the D on the plate !!! )

Worth a try!!???? next time you cop a Ticket ,,,Sorry yrLudd but ... I am !/54 appalatian so therefore cannot bheld to the laws defined by another athority ( Please........I beg you bring back fone etic spelling !!)

:rofl: I like that man already ,!! no ...MOT cos ..ForSalee here dont need one""""\:rofl:

Love it
Nite all
Stephen

[Clockwork]

For the record, I haven't read Michael King's book, or any other work on New Zealand history to be honest (yes, I really do speak from ignorance).

I used to think history was factual, then I learned that no, history too is a "living document". While I agree with the sentiment that... if we don't learn from history we are doomed to make the same mistakes, I don't think its helpfull to re-evalutate history in the light of modern morality. Nor do I think its helpfull to attempt to make redress for its inequities beyond an individual's lifetime, after all, where do you stop?

General questions for all. Can anyone see a logical end to the Grievance Industry, by attempting to meet all its demands can it ever be satisfied? Does continuing to focus on our past drain energies better directed to our future?

[inlinefour]

Hmmmm...

Jus started reading that link to Moriori stuff. It seems that the Europeans did a pretty good job of stuffing things up for the Moriori before the Maori came and finished the job.
Not a pretty history.

Aint that the truth. However some of us reckon we'll blame everyone else? WTF, get over it and move on! Life is what yer make of it, not all about bloody hand outs. As for the crap liciece/rego/wof things. Give them ALL tickets, that should sort the BS out. :weird:

[Jackrat]

For the record, I haven't read Michael King's book, or any other work on New Zealand history to be honest (yes, I really do speak from ignorance).

I used to think history was factual, then I learned that no, history too is a "living document". While I agree with the sentiment that... if we don't learn from history we are doomed to make the same mistakes, I don't think its helpfull to re-evalutate history in the light of modern morality. Nor do I think its helpfull to attempt to make redress for its inequities beyond an individual's lifetime, after all, where do you stop?

General questions for all. Can anyone see a logical end to the Grievance Industry, by attempting to meet all its demands can it ever be satisfied? Does continuing to focus on our past drain energies better directed to our future?

General Question ??wow better ask Mr Peters and Brash,they seem to think they have the answer :msn-wink:
Personaly I don't belive an end is any place close.
I once asked my Gt grandmother to tell me about life when she was a child.
She wouldn't talk much of those days, but I did know she was a child in Gisborne/Opotiki area when Te Kooti was on his main campains.
Although she and her family were Maori they were teriffied of the guy and his followers.She was the last of my family that could of given a first hand account of life back then an it always bothered me that she wouldn't.As a result,in resent times a neice and I have traced our family history right back to when William Gough first arrived in NZ,his marriage to the eldest dauther of "Wharepapa of Nga Puhi" and the resulting violence that followed.
With the help of a local "so called Maori activist" we found out why an how things were done in those times.We had a pretty hard time coming to grips with just where we had come from.
It involved murders,kidnaping,the exchange of fire arms for women ect ect.
We ended up wondering just who we should be the most disgusted and ashamed of,Wharepapas people who were willing to prostitute their own women for personal gain or William Goughs people who were willing to exchange guns for anything they could lay their hands on.
Times were just different aye!!
Goughs marriage to Wharepapas dauther was a business arrangement that went sour.Wharepapas people tryed to take her back.they failed an Gough was called "Tomohawk Gough" by Wharepapas people ever after.
You work it out!!
So we now know why my Gt grandmother didn't want to talk about it.
We also know why some Maori radicals won't/can't let it go.
The Maori lady that helped me trace my family history warned me I probably wouldn't like a lot of what I found.
I didn't understand what she was on about at the time,I certainly do now.
Kings book is an interesting over view but it doesn't really address Maori culture,their intertribal reationships or their relationships with early settlers on a personal level.
As such, I think it's pretty irelivent to the greivence industry,because that does operate on a very personal level.

[DingDong]

The Maori people were not united and never have been (as Jackrat said) each tribe had their own agenda and priorities.
This is why the Crown could play as middleman between tribes and "play on" overseas threats like the French to persuade negotiation.

The TOW was not signed by all tribes at one meeting and some signatures were gathered in retrospect... this has obvious translation issues where different explanations of the treaty could have been presented and/or pressure to follow the precieved majority of tribes.
I have read the treaty over & over again and can see clearly see where tranlation and choice of words were not the best, however at the time... (none of us were there) it may have been perfectly clear... but now its not, and we have a problem.

The GOVT has got their shit together, now the Maori people by tribal speakers need to collectively negotiate the problem, gun-ho activists jumping in, presenting their own agendas as Maori agenders will recieve no respect from anyone... what ever the outcome, it wont be soon and we'll all be dead or well on our way.

[RiderInBlack]

I don't think that early Scotish and Irish health is a relevant comparison to Mäori health issues of the past and present. Land being alienated from Mäori [in a number of ways] during early European colonisation would have an effect, but societal factors and novel bacterial and viral diseases being introduced to an immunogically naïve population probably account better for the differences in health between these geographically isolated populations.Sorry I should have been more clear with my statement. The poorer Health stats for Maori I was refuring to are present day ones. The lost of land was being claimed as a contribuing cause, which in my humble oppion is a lot of bull shit. Scot and Irish have been alienated from their land. This most likely cause major ill health for them at that time, but surely they could not claim that this still effecting the health of their desendants now (hence the relevance). Yet this is exectly what was being claimed as a contribuing cause for the higher poor healt stats in Maori desendants now.
This varsily different from the major lost of lives amongst the Maori when the Europeans and English first settle here accidently bringing they dieases with them, which was tragic.