Collected some revenue today

[rastuscat]

Set some signs up. Variable message signs.

244419244420244421

Collected revenue from 14 errant motorists.

It's all about raising money for the gubbermint, nothing about penalising bad driving.

Gonna collect some more tomorrow. Unless everyone drives better. Don't think that'll happen.

The driver of this one lectured us about revenue collecting, how unfair it was. Ho hum.

[FJRider]

He was only "a bit over" ... <_<

[rastuscat]

It wasn't his fault, of course. The white line was painted in the wrong place.

The damn road markers had put it in the MIDDLE of the road.

Can't believe I was mean enough to actually write him a ticket. What a nasty, mean Popo I wuz.

[FJRider]

Attitude test "fail" ... huh ... $150 and 20 demerits ... ???

[TimeOut]

:shit:Oh come on he wasn't that far over, at least 6" left

[98tls]

Nice work,should have doubled the fine for the 4wd looking so clean n tidy,not like its fucking Auckland eh.

[rastuscat]

Attitude test "fail" ... huh ... $150 and 20 demerits ... ???

Yup.

All but our friend above just sucked it up. Not our man. Cried like a baby.

[riffer]

Jeebus.

What a complete muppet.

How the hell you can keep your cool around such idiots is beyond me.

[rastuscat]

Jeebus.

What a complete muppet.

How the hell you can keep your cool around such idiots is beyond me.

One of my guys dealt with it. Humanity got the better of him, and I heard him tell the bloke that we have to get our quota somehow.

My personal favourite is two more and I get a free toaster

[riffer]

One of my guys dealt with it. Humanity got the better of him, and I heard him tell the bloke that we have to get our quota somehow.

My personal favourite is two more and I get a free toaster


you must spread some reputation around before giving it to rastuscat again...

[Berries]

Isn't that 4WD out of Cars?

[rastuscat]

Sometimes we sit around the office eating donuts and swap stories about what we'd like to say to people but value our careers too much to actually do it.

Favourites include

You want a warning? If I catch you doing this again, I'll write you another ticket.

Warning? Keep medicines in a high cabinet away from children.

Warning? Don't play on the motorway.

Quota? There used to be a quota, now we can write as many as we want.

Two more and I get a free toaster. (A free bike also works here).

Yes, so just when you think we don't think about it, we think about it. Then mostly keep our mouths shut, as we value or careers.

Harumph.

[steve_t]

So that guy was over on the wrong side of the road even after the signs were put up? :facepalm: Did you ask them if they saw the signs?

How about whether or not you look like a cat, meow? :innocent:

[Dodgy_Matt]

That sure is some crap driving... I wonder if he was originally from Wellington? :brick:

[Hitcher]

From the photos in the original post, it's hard to tell whether a crime is actually being committed or whether the Police are merely being pedantic.

There are many places in New Zealand where it is entirely safe to cut a corner, as one has complete and unobstructed line of sight for the safe duration of the manoeuvre in question. Overtaking is a classic example of a failure to keep left. I suppose the cops will be going after that next, particularly if a speed in excess of 101kmh is achieved during the execution thereof? It is, after all, technically illegal and not Mandriving(TM).

Another classic stretch of road where the Police often have apoplexy is the Manawatu Gorge. They even set up cameras there from time to time. It is double yellow lined for its complete length. However there are many sections where although the road twists and turns, there is no impediment whatsoever to a driver's line of sight (provided they're not following a truck) and where, in the absence of oncoming traffic, corners and double yellow lines can be cut in complete safety.

[TOTO]

I think I can see the officer flipping the bordie in the first picture. Am I right ?

[DrunkenMistake]

You didnt state which left,
His left or your left!

Mannnn :Police:

[ukusa]

That sure is some crap driving... I wonder if he was originally from Wellington? :brick:

awww, maybe he wuz from 'Merica, damned tourists

[Latte]

So that guy was over on the wrong side of the road even after the signs were put up? :facepalm: Did you ask them if they saw the signs?

How about whether or not you look like a cat, meow? :innocent:

Do I hop around, from tree to tree, looking all nimbly bimbly? Huh, do I? Meow!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yXZRdeGHEo

[fokky]

how terribly professional of you:no:

[kiwi cowboy]

Set some signs up. Variable message signs.

244419244420244421

Collected revenue from 14 errant motorists.

It's all about raising money for the gubbermint, nothing about penalising bad driving.

Gonna collect some more tomorrow. Unless everyone drives better. Don't think that'll happen.

The driver of this one lectured us about revenue collecting, how unfair it was. Ho hum.

Na hes got ta be a greeny,-he was driving an as straight a line as possible and with a steedy foot on throttle thereby saving were on tyres and assosiated gear and was more econmical on gas so shoulda been let go cos he was beeing kind to the enviroment:laugh:Bit like carbon tradeing realy<_<

[Berries]

Hitcher!!!!!!

Oh, you've been here-

Another classic stretch of road where the Police often have apoplexy is the Manawatu Gorge. They even set up cameras there from time to time. It is double yellow lined for its complete length. However there are many sections where although the road twists and turns, there is no impediment whatsoever to a driver's line of sight (provided they're not following a truck) and where, in the absence of oncoming traffic, corners and double yellow lines can be cut in complete safety.
The Kawarau Gorge is the same. Perfect visibility through many of the curves, quite obvious if there is any oncoming traffic, but if you cross the centreline while the Police are hiding there you'll get a ticket. A crash promoting offence maybe, but not at this location.

[Jantar]

Hitcher!!!!!!

Oh, you've been here-

The Kawarau Gorge is the same. Perfect visibility through many of the curves, quite obvious if there is any oncoming traffic, but if you cross the centreline while the Police are hiding there you'll get a ticket. ....

Unfortunately I have had more than a few near misses in the Kawerau Gorge with vehicles coming around the bend on the wrong side of the road. A few on blind corners, but also a couple where there was good visibility and still those bloody busses take the wrong side of the road. Good on the cops for enforcing the keep left rule on that piece of road.

[rastuscat]

From the photos in the original post, it's hard to tell whether a crime is actually being committed or whether the Police are merely being pedantic..........there are many sections where although the road twists and turns, there is no impediment whatsoever to a driver's line of sight (provided they're not following a truck) and where, in the absence of oncoming traffic, corners and double yellow lines can be cut in complete safety.

Can't speak for the Manawatu Gorge, never been there.

I started a big long reply, but then deleted it. I'm sorry, but we disagree. We'll keep enforcing the keep left rule. Keep left.

The reason being that every day in New Zillin people collide with things that they didn't see. God forbid that someone should cut a corner, having mistakenly looked and thought the way was clear, only to collect a biker they hadn't seen coming the other way. Sorry Hitch, just trying to keep all those drivers who aren't as good as you on their own side of the road.

I'm not even sure I know why I had to write that. Thought it was that old thing called common sense. Keep on your own side of the road.

Harumph.

[rastuscat]

I think I can see the officer flipping the bordie in the first picture. Am I right ?

Nope. Sign guy is a great guy, unqualified to be abused.

[Maha]

There are many places in New Zealand where it is entirely safe to cut a corner, as one has complete and unobstructed line of sight for the safe duration of the manoeuvre in question.


Would just like to comment on this ...
Be that as it may, a driver of a vehicle would not use the corner cutting manoeuvre on just a few selected corners. I would suggest that its a part of said drivers repertoire and that he/she will attempt it at every favourable combination of circumstances....yes even whilst texting.

[riffer]

I can see both users points.

It's tough - on one hand you DO have good drivers. But you also have some absolutely shocking ones.

I've discussed this very subject with Jim Furneaux of NZTA - and although they do recognise that some better drivers do shake their heads at the sheer bloody mindedness of some of the road markings and rules, at the end of the day they have to work to the lowest common (mouth breathing) denominator.

Another case in point is my daily ride, which includes Paremata Road, which around a year ago was double yellowed throughout its entire length. I've been riding that road for years, and I know all the good passing points. Plus I have a large amount of torque at my disposal so can pass quite safely at many places. However, if I am observed doing it by one of NZ's finest, I'll have to wear the infringement. That's my tough bikkies. Too many idiots came to grief on that road because they had no situation awareness or ability to look where they were going.

Policing on that road is, however, thankfully low enough to accommodate both my need to not be infringed in my travels and hold back the idiots on their side of the road.

[rastuscat]

Another case in point is my daily ride, which includes Paremata Road, which around a year ago was double yellowed throughout its entire length. I've been riding that road for years, and I know all the good passing points. Plus I have a large amount of torque at my disposal so can pass quite safely at many places.

Is that the one around the estuary? We use that one heaps when doing our Popo motorcycle officers qualification. We used it specifically because you can extend the bike and your skillset without extending the speed limit i.e. you can wring it out at relatively low speeds. Loved that road.

I also got to know the places to overtake, and the instructor expected us to overtake when an opportunity arose. Thing is, bikes CAN overtake easily, quickly and mostly safely. Trouble is, we have to apply the same rules to pretty much everyone, so expect everyone to keep left unless overtaking. Each individual cop has discretion, but this is an offence we are pretty unlikely to use our discretion on.

Gotta love Twisties. Not the ones in the blue bag, I prefer Burger Rings.

[Dodgy_Matt]

I can see both users points.

It's tough - on one hand you DO have good drivers. But you also have some absolutely shocking ones.

I've discussed this very subject with Jim Furneaux of NZTA - and although they do recognise that some better drivers do shake their heads at the sheer bloody mindedness of some of the road markings and rules, at the end of the day they have to work to the lowest common (mouth breathing) denominator.

Another case in point is my daily ride, which includes Paremata Road, which around a year ago was double yellowed throughout its entire length. I've been riding that road for years, and I know all the good passing points. Plus I have a large amount of torque at my disposal so can pass quite safely at many places. However, if I am observed doing it by one of NZ's finest, I'll have to wear the infringement. That's my tough bikkies. Too many idiots came to grief on that road because they had no situation awareness or ability to look where they were going.

Policing on that road is, however, thankfully low enough to accommodate both my need to not be infringed in my travels and hold back the idiots on their side of the road.

I can understand overtaking like this on a bike... but would you even think about doing it an a 4X4?
:shit:
Some of the things I do on a bike I would never ever do in my car...... :scooter:
Its too hard to get the front wheels in the air :facepalm:

[nodrog]

What was the fine for driving with a plastic bag on their head?

[nadroj]

The pissing off part on those roads is the centreline hugging of vehicles when "if" they kept left there would be room for a motorcycle to pass without crossing the centreline.

[Paul in NZ]

All I can say is good on ya!

If I fuck up and slide off the bike there a decent chance my gear will help minimise the hurt. If I hit that 4wd thing front and centre I'd be in a world of hurt.... at best...

How it could be justified once caught, after a warning is beyond me....

[MSTRS]

Would just like to comment on this ...
Be that as it may, a driver of a vehicle would not use the corner cutting manoeuvre on just a few selected corners. I would suggest that its a part of said drivers repertoire and that he/she will attempt it at every favourable combination of circumstances....yes even whilst texting.

Practice makes perfect...to the point where they'll do it everywhere. 'Suitable' or not.
Crossing the centreline (straightening out the corner) is simply lazy driving/riding and should have no place in a motorist's repertoire.

[Ronin]

One of my guys dealt with it. Humanity got the better of him, and I heard him tell the bloke that we have to get our quota somehow.

My personal favourite is two more and I get a free toaster

*snort* There goes my coffee.

[willytheekid]

:wings:..Great to see rastuscat.

Even better....it was a 4x4! (there shocking lately!)

...if only the one that punched me & PhatGirl off the highway a few weeks back had "kept left" :no:


Keep up the great work ras :niceone:

[gijoe1313]

To quote the classic KB refrain : "Burn them!" :stupid: Too often I ride left of the left in preparation for this sort of scenario - more often than not, vehicle rolls around said blind corner with wheels over the painted line ... :no:

[White trash]

While it's to be commended that you're actively ticketing and searching for drivers using the road in a dangerous manner, I can't help but wonder at the professionalism in posting photos and details of your charges on a public forum. Details obscured or not, it seems to be a bit of a thin line you're walking right now. Perhaps you're fairly new to road saftey policing and want others to share in your enthusiasm, or maybe a well seasoned campaigner pissed off with the "FTP" atitude displayed by motorists, I'm unsure.

Reminds of me a scenario a few years back in which a sensible, VERY well respected KBer faced disciplinary action and almost lost his career within the emergency services for his online condemnation of the constant harrasment towards motorcyclists from one particular highway patrol officer. Comments made in his own time, posted from his own computer.

If the driver of that red Hilux was, for instance, pointed in the direction of this thread. I'm fairly sure he'd have good reason to lay complaint.

Just saying is all...

[avgas]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01290/zombie_1290011c.jpg

[steve_t]

If the driver of that red Hilux was, for instance, pointed in the direction of this thread. I'm fairly sure he'd have good reason to lay complaint.

Just saying is all...

But that could be any red hilux with a canopy. As long as there's nothing that could used to identify the people in the picture, I'm fairly sure there's no problem ;)

[george formby]

Would just like to comment on this ...
Be that as it may, a driver of a vehicle would not use the corner cutting manoeuvre on just a few selected corners. I would suggest that its a part of said drivers repertoire and that he/she will attempt it at every favourable combination of circumstances....yes even whilst texting.

Indicitive of lazy, thoughtless driving. No doubt executed turning into t-junctions, obviously on corners, blind & otherwise, super market carparks to get to the disabled bay etc. I think it must be compulsory up here, must check the by-laws....
Nice to think the federales are drawing drivers attention to how inept they are & it is getting close to Christmas...

sorry, I'm stereotyping. (that's using 2 fingers on the keyboard)

[rastuscat]

While it's to be commended that you're actively ticketing and searching for drivers using the road in a dangerous manner, I can't help but wonder at the professionalism in posting photos..............Details obscured or not, it seems to be a bit of a thin line you're walking right now. Perhaps you're fairly new to road saftey policing....................Just saying is all...

Yes I'm new. I've only been at it for 23 years.

I post things here at times in order to try to educate about the sort of things we do. I get sick of reading threads about how all we do is wait in bushes with lasers to catch those blistering along at 61. I'm also over threads about how totally innocent people get picked on by Popos.

I guess it's frustration. I'm a fairly open minded, common sensical person who loves bikes. I guess I'm just venting at times.

I also worry that posting might be bad for my career, and have stopped at times. I have to be very careful what I post, hence the blanked ID of the vehicle.

I guess part of the point was to advise that we do this sort of enforcement, and to try to gain force multiplication by publicising that fact. Writing the tickets effects those ticketed. Telling people we are doing it broadens that effect. Better bang for the limited manpower we have.

Just IMHO.

[White trash]

Yes I'm new. I've only been at it for 23 years.

I post things here at times in order to try to educate about the sort of things we do. I get sick of reading threads about how all we do is wait in bushes with lasers to catch those blistering along at 61. I'm also over threads about how totally innocent people get picked on by Popos.

I guess it's frustration. I'm a fairly open minded, common sensical person who loves bikes. I guess I'm just venting at times.

I also worry that posting might be bad for my career, and have stopped at times. I have to be very careful what I post, hence the blanked ID of the vehicle.

I guess part of the point was to advise that we do this sort of enforcement, and to try to gain force multiplication by publicising that fact. Writing the tickets effects those ticketed. Telling people we are doing it broadens that effect. Better bang for the limited manpower we have.

Just IMHO.

Fair enough. Keep catching them baddies then.

[slofox]

I had a cat called Rastus once...you're not him, are ya RC?

As far as ticketing 4x4's on the wrong side of the line goes, you have my full support anyway. I've had more than enough arse-clenching moments as a result of such practices.

[riffer]

Nah rastus cat was this cool as cat that used to ride on a guy called Max Corkill's motorcycle.

He became quite the star did that cat (http://www.petsonthenet.co.nz/maxandrastus.htm).

<img src=http://rottnest.home.xs4all.nl/rastus.jpg>

IIRC Max and Rastus were taken out by a driver on the wrong side head-on crashing into them.

I may be wrong but if that is the case, it's kinda ironic isn't it?

And yes rastuscat, Paremata Rd is around the estuary. Lovely sweeping corners you can really exercise the tyres on without getting pinged for going too fast. I imagine you will (like me) be gutted to know that they've now double-yellowed THE ENTIRE ROAD so no overtaking can be done whatsoever.

I have, however, mastered the art of overtaking on that road without once going over the yellow line on my side. I bet there'll be one policeman one day who'll disagree I have full control when I do this and give me the 20 demerits and $150 fine for my troubles for it. You know, I should probably just overtake over the yellows shouldn't I?

You can't win rastuscat. We're either oxygen stealing mouth-breathers or skilled but overly arrogant motherfuckers.

[Toaster]

two more and I get a free toaster

I may be free but I do incur demerits.

[riffer]

<center> Rastus the cat and his owner Max Corkill,

Celebrity duo killed on the road

</center> <img src=http://rottnest.home.xs4all.nl/rastus.jpg>

PHOTOS: DON SCOTT Rastus the cat and his owner, Max Corkill, approach Christchurch during their fundraising tour of New Zealand in October 1995.



Januari 20, 1998, New Zealand, National biker-cat celebrity Rastus, his owner, Max Corkill, and pillion passenger Gaynor Martin have been killed in a head-on crash in North Taranaki.
At 9.30am Mr Corkill, 58, Ms Martin, 48, and Rastus, all from New Plymouth, died instantly in a collision with a car on State Highway 3 just north of Urenui, 32km north-east of New Plymouth.
Rastus and Mr Corkill were media and charity stars, most recently featuring in a prize-winning Bell Tea television advertisement.
Rastus and Mr Corkill had clocked up many thousands of kilometres on Canadian and New Zealand roads together since Mr Corkill befriended the tiny kitten dumped at a bikers' swap-meet in Canada.
Rastus had his own fan club of more than 200 and was a major fundraiser for the Royal New Zealand Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
The duo had their own company which sold Rastus collectables such as T-shirts, posters, and badges, and even had a joint cheque account. Rastus signed with a paw print.
After more than 30 years in Canada Inglewood-born Mr Corkill returned to live with his elderly mother in New Plymouth in 1994.The pair were often seen on the roads, Rastus perched on the petrol tank of Mr Corkill's motorcycle leaning into the wind.
Rastus had special helmets to suit the occasion. He wore a red hat with antlers for Christmas and Mr Corkill dressed up as Santa Claus.
RNZSPCA committee chairwoman Jackie Poles Smith said: "He and Rastus were one out of the box, completely irreplaceable. There's never going to be another Max and Rastus." -- NZPA

<img src=http://rottnest.home.xs4all.nl/maxras.jpg>

Hundreds of bikers escorted Max and Rastus on their last tour.

[MD]

From the photos in the original post, it's hard to tell whether a crime is actually being committed or whether the Police are merely being pedantic.



I'm surprised you don't find that photo offensive Hitcher?

If you backtrack his line 1, 2 ,3 or so seconds before picture was taken, he would still be completely on the wrong side of the road. But worse, now hidden from oncoming sight by the bushes on the left side of pic. Now place an opposing rider about adcacent to the 4x4 and probably hanging close to the centreline for a good drop into the lefthander..SMASH!

I may speed on winding roads and must confess I rely upon surviving so long as I remain on my side of the centreline. The basic flaw in that plan is assuming we all drive on the left in NZ

Book em Dano!

[FJRider]

From the photos in the original post, it's hard to tell whether a crime is actually being committed or whether the Police are merely being pedantic.

As I understand ... no crime is being committed ... it is a Traffic infringement ... or am I being pedantic ... ???


There are many places in New Zealand where it is entirely safe to cut a corner, as one has complete and unobstructed line of sight for the safe duration of the manoeuvre in question. Overtaking is a classic example of a failure to keep left. I suppose the cops will be going after that next, particularly if a speed in excess of 101kmh is achieved during the execution thereof? It is, after all, technically illegal and not Mandriving(TM).

Overtaking requires (by law) 100 metres of clear visibility throughout the manouver ... not as some assume ... 100 metres of visibility at the start ... The toyota pictured ... would not have had that ... and I would have thought driving dangerously would not be out of the question ... only getting a failing to keep left is a lucky result ...


Another classic stretch of road where the Police often have apoplexy is the Manawatu Gorge. They even set up cameras there from time to time. It is double yellow lined for its complete length. However there are many sections where although the road twists and turns, there is no impediment whatsoever to a driver's line of sight (provided they're not following a truck) and where, in the absence of oncoming traffic, corners and double yellow lines can be cut in complete safety.

With a fair degree of skill and common sense ... this may be true ... but far too many lack these two elements ...

End result ... double yellows and lots of "enforcement" ...

[Blackbird]

Rastuscat,
Please come up to the Coromandel Peninsula and do the same as the local cops don't seem interested. It doesn't matter when or exactly where as there's someone trying to wipe me out from cutting blind bends every 10 minutes or so. It's SERIOUSLY bad up here. :no:

[RDJ]

As I understand ... no crime is being committed ... it is a Traffic infringement ... or am I being pedantic ... ???

I think there is a sound principle being written about in your post. We have increasingly as a society defined most crime as transgressions which a normally law-abiding middle-class person can be stopped for, interrogated for, prosecuted for, fined for - with the expectation that he or she will pay up like a good 'un - and then occasionally jailed for. The more egregious crimes such as murder rape and violent assault are of course still prosecuted, but there are many apologists out there seeking to excuse such bad behaviour in the name of lack of privilege, post colonialism, diversity, cultural differences, lack of job opportunities, and so forth.... But no one apologises and excuses the speeding middle-class citizen. Traffic rule infringement is not crime. Much as various people would have it so. YMMV...

[scumdog]

I may speed on winding roads and must confess I rely upon surviving so long as I remain on my side of the centreline. The basic flaw in that plan is assuming we all drive on the left in NZ

Book em Dano!

Some don't know what ikut kiri means.

Book 'em for sure, I've got no time for piss-poor or incompetents that NEED to cut corners just to stay on the road.

EDIT: And such a ticket shold incur 50 demerits, bugger the fine - take their licence quicker.

[st00ji]

rastus, my 2c

i think what you are doing (in posting) is fantastic, as you say a multiplicative effect. maybe if the police did more of this sort of thing it would go a long way to dispelling some of the persistent myths around their behaviour.

i myself am guilty of thinking to myself when witnessing such a mindless act of driving, 'where are the cops now, probably busy with someone caught doing 112 in the middle of nowhere humph' so its great to see other types of bad behavior do get targeted.

god i hate people that cant / wont stay in their lane.

to be perfectly frank, i've always quite liked your sense of humor - but the last few posts of yours i've read have honestly helped to restore some of my respect for the NZ police. if the public got to vote, you'd have mine for commissioner. or something. not that you'd probably want such a thankless job.

ok man love moment over, carry on.

[pete376403]

How about a campaign on car drivers doing 3 point turns in inappropriate places - not much revenue in it though

[FJRider]

How about a campaign on car drivers doing 3 point turns in inappropriate places - not much revenue in it though

At $250 a head ... more than failing to keep left ... <_<

[scumdog]

How about a campaign on car drivers doing 3 point turns in inappropriate places - not much revenue in it though


Really?

$250 will buy nearly 9 boxes of 440ml 5% Woodstocks...

[FJRider]

Really?

$250 will buy nearly 9 boxes of 440ml 5% Woodstocks...

Buy ... dont you fella's confiscate it anymore ... ??? :confused:

[oldrider]

Set some signs up. Variable message signs.

244419244420244421

Collected revenue from 14 errant motorists.

It's all about raising money for the gubbermint, nothing about penalising bad driving.

Gonna collect some more tomorrow. Unless everyone drives better. Don't think that'll happen.

The driver of this one lectured us about revenue collecting, how unfair it was. Ho hum.

IMHO failing to keep left is the most "consistently practised bad driving" on New Zealand roads!

Fucking good job that you guy's are policing it .... no complaints from me on that one! :Police: :no:

[rastuscat]

to be perfectly frank, i've always quite liked your sense of humor - but the last few posts of yours i've read have honestly helped to restore some of my respect for the NZ police. if the public got to vote, you'd have mine for commissioner. or something. not that you'd probably want such a thankless job.

ok man love moment over, carry on.

Awwwww shucks.............

[Berries]

Nah, I think it is a crock. If you have a nice open curve where you have more than 100m clear visibility then you can legally move out of your lane to overtake another vehicle, yet if there is no vehicle ahead of you and you cross the same centre line you can get fined?

On corners where you don't have sufficient visibility then sure, throw the fuckers in jail. But to assume that just because someone cuts a corner where there is plenty of visibility they will cut a corner where there is zero visibility is a bit much IMHO.

[Jack Miller]

Thing is, bikes CAN overtake easily, quickly and mostly safely. Trouble is, we have to apply the same rules to pretty much everyone, so expect everyone to keep left unless overtaking. Each individual cop has discretion, but this is an offence we are pretty unlikely to use our discretion on.

Gotta love Twisties. Not the ones in the blue bag, I prefer Burger Rings.

Bikes sure can overtake easily, quickly and safely. But you'll probably exceed the speed limit in doing so. Is that OK?

[Brian d marge]

mate.....have NO problem with you collecting revenue ...I support you 100℅ .....I do however have a massive problem with ....4 km over on an empty straight road .....

you can either justify it or toe the gubber mentioned line

Stephen

[nadroj]

When a biker straight lines some twisties: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/22756-Went-all-wrong-today

[oldrider]

mate.....have NO problem with you collecting revenue ...I support you 100℅ .....I do however have a massive problem with ....4 km over on an empty straight road .....

you can either justify it or toe the gubber mentioned line

Stephen

+1 ..... No make that +10! :yes:

[Berries]

When a biker straight lines some twisties: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/22756-Went-all-wrong-today
Shouldn't that be when a biker straight lines some twisties at high speed without being able to see that the road ahead is clear?

Or did I miss something?

[rastuscat]

Bikes sure can overtake easily, quickly and safely. But you'll probably exceed the speed limit in doing so. Is that OK?

You'd be surprised at how many Popos allow people to exceed the tolerance when overtaking, just because it's common sense. Having said that, if you have to do 120 to get past someone, you probably didn't need to overtake.

Remember though, that the speed limit is the speed limit, so if you get caught and get ticketed, it's a legal ticket. There are Popos who write tickets to the letter of the law. Doing what I do, it's fair to say that most don't, but some do.

[Jack Miller]

You'd be surprised at how many Popos allow people to exceed the tolerance when overtaking, just because it's common sense. Having said that, if you have to do 120 to get past someone, you probably didn't need to overtake.
Unless the person you're overtaking speeds up, which most do (intentionally or not.)

[MSTRS]

Nah, I think it is a crock. If you have a nice open curve where you have more than 100m clear visibility then you can legally move out of your lane to overtake another vehicle, yet if there is no vehicle ahead of you and you cross the same centre line you can get fined?

On corners where you don't have sufficient visibility then sure, throw the fuckers in jail. But to assume that just because someone cuts a corner where there is plenty of visibility they will cut a corner where there is zero visibility is a bit much IMHO.

Sounds OK in theory. The reality is that if one isn't passing another vehicle or perhaps avoiding something on the road, then the law says one must stay in one's lane. Make a habit of straight-lining open corners, and it's only a matter of time before it creeps into happening in less forgiving corners.

[MSTRS]

You'd be surprised at how many Popos allow people to exceed the tolerance when overtaking, just because it's common sense. Having said that, if you have to do 120 to get past someone, you probably didn't need to overtake.

Remember though, that the speed limit is the speed limit, so if you get caught and get ticketed, it's a legal ticket. There are Popos who write tickets to the letter of the law. Doing what I do, it's fair to say that most don't, but some do.

That's the old passing lane quandary.
"I've been stuck for 20kms behind this prat doing 80kph, and now there is room to finally overtake the prick has sped up to 110km. Shall I risk it?"

[Taz]

So that guy was over on the wrong side of the road even after the signs were put up? :facepalm: Did you ask them if they saw the signs?

How about whether or not you look like a cat, meow? :innocent:

What you can't see around the corner is that the sign is in the middle of his lane forcing him to swerve around it to get by. Police don't play by fair rules ya know. It's entrapment.

[Shadows]

The driver of this one lectured us about revenue collecting, how unfair it was. Ho hum.

Yep. Bloody revenue collectors.

If you really cared about public safety on the roads then you should have done us all a favour and simply shot the whiney little fucker and pushed his vehicle over the bank.

[scumdog]

Make a habit of straight-lining open corners, and it's only a matter of time before it creeps into happening in less forgiving corners.

Very true, I posted on that before.

Nobody overtakes knowingly into the face of an oncoming vehicle that is using up its whole lane.

But somehow we have heaps of head-on crashes - SOMEBODY has to be on the wrong side of the road for that to happen - and I bet bugger-all thought "Ah, I can see that Nissan Patrol coming towards me but I'll overtake this camper-van anyway"

[Taz]

Bloody slow campervans. Ban them!

[slofox]

...if you have to do 120 to get past someone, you probably didn't need to overtake.

There are many times when I do just this. It's usually when overtaking truck and trailer units that are adhering to their legal limit of 90km/hr on roads that have limited overtaking opportunities - SH39 and SH23 being two local roads that spring to mind.

In general, these units build up a wolf pack behind them. And I am not happy in wolf packs - not on a bike. Cars creep up really close behind and put me at more risk than is necessary. So I feel safer getting by the truck and into clear space. I try to ride in clear space at all times.

So, if I were to hang on to 100km/hr to pass these units, I'd use more than the visible clear road ahead to get by. If I blast up to 120 for a couple of seconds, I am well clear with full visibility ahead and the knowledge that I am back on my side of the road and safe much sooner. Which seems to me what I should be doing. I don't like being on the other side of the road for any longer than I have to be.

Now I'm not talking screaming past a line of traffic at warp factor nine here. I'm talking about being briefly in breach of the speed limit even if it is by 20 or even 30 km/hr. And then getting back onto my side of the road and back down to legal speed with as much alacrity as possible.

If that is an offense then OK, it's the letter of the law. But I doubt that it is the spirit of the law. I'd rather be momentarily in breach of the letter of the law than permanently splattered up against an oncoming vehicle. Wouldn't you?

[rastuscat]

If that is an offense then OK, it's the letter of the law. But I doubt that it is the spirit of the law. I'd rather be momentarily in breach of the letter of the law than permanently splattered up against an oncoming vehicle. Wouldn't you?

I guess the point is that the only way to ensure no ticket is to keep witin the speed limit.

I know that that's a girlie swat thing to say, but it's fact. If you exceed the speed limit, you are relying on the discretion of the Popo who catches you. Maybe you'll get the benefit, maybe not. If you don't want to leave your fate to the mind of a Popo, stick to the limit, and you'll not have to worry.

This didn't start out as a post on speed, but it actually was. The reason said chap was straightening the corners out was that he was travelling quicker than his 4WD was able to take the bends properly at. Oddly, he had a radar detector. Coincidence? I think not. His choice of speed was more important to him than staying on his own side of the road.

Some people cut corners because they are lazy drivers, some incompetent. Some because they are going a bit quick in the twisties to take the corners while staying on their own side of the road.

[Number One]

My personal favourite is two more and I get a free toaster


YOu just made my blood run cold with that statement....is this an embedded fav saying amongst NZ Police?

I ask because the lead investigator we had to deal with recently used exactly the same phrase when askling us to confirm that we did want to push ahead and with getting my father spoken to/charged for messing with my son. This 'used car salesman styled investigator' told us..."It's not like a get a free toaster for everyone of these guys I put behind bars"

Seriously the way he said made us think firstly - this ain't a fucking joke for us ya know and Secondly - he probably bloody does get a free toaster!

Anyway that's off topic but I couldn't help asking.

Well done for getting the clown on the wrong side of the bloody road...the number of times I've seen this kind of shit driving and there isn't a man in blue around to nick them it's nice to know that now and then they DO get busted.

[slofox]

I guess the point is that the only way to ensure no ticket is to keep witin the speed limit.


Quite right. I accept that. And if I see a HP car, I'll wait until it's gone before I overtake as outlined in my post. If I get pinged for doing it that's my problem.

Incidentally, the use of a radar detector doesn't always mean the user is a hoon. I use one on the bike and in the car. I don't use it in my partner's car because it has cruise control and it's easy to stay within the limits. But without cruise control, it is easy to drift up into infringement territory. Especially on a bike where very minor throttle variation can mean an extra 10 - 15km/hr.

For me, the RD is a reminder to keep an eye on the speedo. I leave all bands open and use any signal as a cue to check speed. In the car, it has modified my driving to the extent that I almost never see the speedo over about 105 - 108km/hr (it overreads about 4%) any more whereas once upon a time 115 was not uncommon.

Doesn't seem to have been as effective on the bike though, dammit...:angry:

[scumdog]

You'd be surprised at how many Popos allow people to exceed the tolerance when overtaking, just because it's common sense. .

But nobody rants about THAT on KB...:confused::corn:<_<

[Little Miss Trouble]

But nobody rants about THAT on KB...:confused::corn:<_<

Nope, after being pulled up and warned about my behaviour I didn't jump straight on KB to post about it, but you can be damn sure I have been a much better behaved little girl since then.. whilst riding my bike anyway... :spanking::devil2:

[rastuscat]

YOu just made my blood run cold with that statement....is this an embedded fav saying amongst NZ Police?

I ask because the lead investigator we had to deal with recently used exactly the same phrase when askling us to confirm that we did want to push ahead and with getting my father spoken to/charged for messing with my son. This 'used car salesman styled investigator' told us..."It's not like a get a free toaster for everyone of these guys I put behind bars"

After a few years of being told its revenue collecting, when you personally know that its not, you just give up trying to defend it, and have a laugh about it. Fair to say that we have a few laughs at work, as do most kiwis.

The only place I've ever heard it is in road policing, and in relation to the quota issue. As a laugh. Obviously, we don't get a free toaster. Other minor appliances either.

Did I really have to explain that? Certainly I've never heard any of the 'real' Popos saying it.

[Number One]

Did I really have to explain that? Certainly I've never heard any of the 'real' Popos saying it.

I wouldn't in hindsight call him a 'real cop' to be frank.

[Ocean1]

The Kawarau Gorge is the same.

My favouritest bit of road. And yes, a rigid adherence to one's own side of the road is not necessarily the best approach.

And man it’s a long way down on the other side of those low, hard walls.

[Ocean1]

Be that as it may, a driver of a vehicle would not use the corner cutting manoeuvre on just a few selected corners.

Why not?

I do.

[Ocean1]

Practice makes perfect...to the point where they'll do it everywhere. 'Suitable' or not.
Crossing the centreline (straightening out the corner) is simply lazy driving/riding and should have no place in a motorist's repertoire.

Bollox. My lines are driven solely by what's safer for me, and there's plenty of specific instances where using the other side is simply safer.

[Dodgy_Matt]

Bollox. My lines are driven solely by what's safer for me, and there's plenty of specific instances where using the other side is simply safer.

So basically what you are saying is you can’t drive and have to use the whole road?

[FJRider]

Bollox. My lines are driven solely by what's safer for me, and there's plenty of specific instances where using the other side is simply safer.

So slowing down is not as safe ... as crossing to the wrong side of the road ... ???

[FJRider]

My favouritest bit of road. And yes, a rigid adherence to one's own side of the road is not necessarily the best approach.

And man it’s a long way down on the other side of those low, hard walls.

It must be a while since you traveled that road then ... The tourist traffic, ranging from bicycles to bus's ... makes staying on your side recommended ...

[Ocean1]

So basically what you are saying is you can’t drive and have to use the whole road?

Nothing like it. Try reading it slowly.


So slowing down is not as safe ... as crossing to the wrong side of the road ... ???

Actually yes. You don't have to think very hard to come up with a situation where that's exactly the case. I've seen a drift of pine needles across the shaded LH side of a RH curve late enough to make further braking more risky than simply dropping over the line where the surface is more predictable. But far more common is the situation where crossing the line is simply safer at any speed. I don't find myself in that position all that often, but there's two corners on the paekak hill that I'll cut every time if the road's clear.

Before you shoot your load remember the rules are simply an approximation of the safest behaviour for most situations. If you blindly follow the rules you'll eventually find yourself in a position where you have to choose to either obey the law or take a safer option that breaks the rules. My safety is more important to me than any given rule, if occasionally breaking one costs me a bit of cash, (and it occasionally does) that's fine, I'm still alive.

[Ocean1]

It must be a while since you traveled that road then ... The tourist traffic, ranging from bicycles to bus's ... makes staying on your side recommended ...

About 8 months ago. Turned around and did it again. And twice again the next day on the way out. On the last run I drifted towards the centreline at a point where there's an access road on the west side. I missed a Transfield ute coming out of there by about a metre. Like I said, my position on the road tends to be dictated by active risk assesment and avoidance more than any currently fashionable regulation.

[Dodgy_Matt]

Nothing like it. Try reading it slowly..
Hahaahha no matter how you want me to read it, I would still come to the same conclusion…
Maybe you should re-read what you wrote?

[FJRider]

About 8 months ago. Turned around and did it again. And twice again the next day on the way out. On the last run I drifted towards the centreline at a point where there's an access road on the west side. I missed a Transfield ute coming out of there by about a metre. Like I said, my position on the road tends to be dictated by active risk assesment and avoidance more than any currently fashionable regulation.

I drive a truck through there three or four times a week ... trucks, cars AND motorbikes coming the other way cut the corners in front of me OFTEN ...

I stay on MY side ALL the time ...

[Jantar]

I drive a truck through there three or four times a week ... trucks, cars AND motorbikes coming the other way cut the corners in front of me OFTEN ...

I stay on MY side ALL the time ...

i ride a motorcycle through there 3 or 4 times a month .... busses, cars AND motorbikes coming the other way cut the corners in front of me OFTEN ... Strange that for me its busses that cut the corners, but only a few trucks.

Like FJRider, I stay on MY side ALL the time.

[Ocean1]

I drive a truck through there three or four times a week ... trucks, cars AND motorbikes coming the other way cut the corners in front of me OFTEN ...


i ride a motorcycle through there 3 or 4 times a month .... busses, cars AND motorbikes coming the other way cut the corners in front of me OFTEN ...

I only ride through there a couple of times a year. I've noticed what seems to me a significant increase in poeple appearing on my side of the road on blind corners everywhere. I have no problem with pinging the living shit out of these guys. I have no problem at all, however distinguishing between blind corners and those I can see not only through but well down the following streach of road. I can't recall ever having found myself on the same piece of road as on-coming traffic. Ever.

[FJRider]

I only ride through there a couple of times a year. I've noticed what seems to me a significant increase in poeple appearing on my side of the road on blind corners everywhere. I have no problem with pinging the living shit out of these guys. I have no problem at all, however distinguishing between blind corners and those I can see not only through but well down the following streach of road. I can't recall ever having found myself on the same piece of road as on-coming traffic. Ever.

Long may your luck continue ...

[Ocean1]

Long may your luck continue ...

I'll continue to rely on my eyes thanks.

[Berries]

Done two return trips this week, one on the bike one in the work ute. The only problems I encountered was a car in front of me slowing, swerving and then coming to a complete stop, presumably for some small animal, and the usual doddery old farts who won't go above 70 and won't pull over when they get the chance.

No problems on the bike, other than trying not to cut corners where I could see it was safe to do so. And that's only because every now and again they show some photos in the ODT of people being snapped by the Police hidden on a hill in the gorge.

[scumdog]

cut corners where I could see it was safe to do so.

Famous last words of a corner cutter...

You would think NOBODY cut corners where it is not safe to do so - yet we still have head-on crashes.

And not ALL of them can be attributed to bad overtaking.

[oldrider]

I make it a personal practice of trying to only ride/drive in my own space. (the "left" or designated/directed lane)

It just gives me one less thing to think about when the shit hits the fan, I always think in terms of where I am and where is best escape route!

Not just on the roads but in every day life, it's a habit that has helped me get through 71 years of sometimes very tricky life.

If everyone "paid attention" and "drove in their own space", perhaps the roads might be a little bit safer!

Yeah yeah yeah, too easy .... lets not worry about other road users, lets just kick arse and show em who's boss out there!

How do you think all those dead cunt's would vote .... "if" they were were given another chance to make a comment? :mellow:

[Berries]

Famous last words of a corner cutter...
With respect, you would say that.


You would think NOBODY cut corners where it is not safe to do so - yet we still have head-on crashes.
Isn't this thread (apparently) about cutting corners where it is not safe to do so? If you cut a corner and have a head on then quite clearly it wasn't safe to cut the corner.

You can't tell me that there aren't any curves down your way that have such good visibility that you can see that there won't be any oncoming traffic?

[Woodman]

With all this talk of corner straightening it sounds like a lot of you guys should lobby TNZ to re-align a whole lot of roads. The Harley dealers will back you.

[Shadows]

You can't tell me that there aren't any curves down your way that have such good visibility that you can see that there won't be any oncoming traffic?

I've said it before and I'll say it again... there are so few corners down here it should be a capital offence to waste them by straightening them out.

[nadroj]

The real issue seems to be the habit which is formed from cutting or straight lining corners where there is sufficient visibility.
We rave on about enjoying the twisties yet seem unable to resist straight lining them when offered a choice.
We also seem to ignore the danger of entering a corner at a speed we anticipate we will be able to take it at without the visibility to allow for the unforseen.
A mirror is the best place to find an answer!

[scumdog]

The real issue seems to be the habit which is formed from cutting or straight lining corners where there is sufficient visibility.
We rave on about enjoying the twisties yet seem unable to resist straight lining them when offered a choice.
We also seem to ignore the danger of entering a corner at a speed we anticipate we will be able to take it at without the visibility to allow for the unforseen.
A mirror is the best place to find an answer!

Wot 'e sed!!:Punk:

No corner cutter does so with the knowledge they are about to have a head-on, "But I din't know/see the other cars coming" is the response from the at-fault driver in 99% of cases.

Well from the ones that could still talk that is..

[Jack Miller]

Admittedly I take a racing line through tight twisties for fun sometimes. However, the imaginary "track" is limited to my own lane. I just pretend the tarmac right of centre isn't there. Sometimes on right handers this means my head and shoulders might be in the oncoming lane but my wheels & footpegs will be left of the centreline and then only when I can see there's nothing coming. Would you have ticketed me rastuscat?

[FJRider]

Wot 'e sed!!:Punk:

No corner cutter does so with the knowledge they are about to have a head-on, "But I din't know/see the other cars coming" is the response from the at-fault driver in 99% of cases.

Well from the ones that could still talk that is..

And it wasn't their fault ... cause that other vehicle came out of a side road they didn't know was there ... and THEY didn't look to see if the road was clear ...

[scumdog]

Isn't this thread (apparently) about cutting corners where it is not safe to do so? If you cut a corner and have a head on then quite clearly it wasn't safe to cut the corner.

You can't tell me that there aren't any curves down your way that have such good visibility that you can see that there won't be any oncoming traffic?

The whole point I'm trying to make is that EVERYBODY who causes a head-on (or even a near miss) started their corner cutting manoeuvre with the clear thought "It looks safe to do this, I can't see anything coming"

Few cut corners with the thought "I can't really see far enough ahead but I'll cut this corner anyway" - invariably it's the oncoming car/bike/bus/truck that they DIDN'T see approaching that gets them.

Also, some might see nothing's coming for sure - but that's because they could only see 40 metres ahead around the corner...

Simply put, in cave-man days that line of thought would have you straight into the jaws of the sabre-tooth you couldn't see around the corner...no ambo, chopper etc then to bail you out.:no: - end of that dumb-arse gene.

Makes you wonder how we have so many cretins these days sharing the roads with us...how come the idiot gene survived through to this day:confused:

[Kickaha]

Makes you wonder how we have so many cretins these days sharing the roads with us...how come the idiot gene survived through to this day:confused:

I blame OSH and safety related legislation, it lets the dumb ones live to breed

[FJRider]

And ... then there's the ...

I can see something coming ... but I'll be through by the time it gets near me ...

SHIT ... he was going faster than I thought ...

HE must have been speeding ... it's HIS fault ...

[nadroj]

And ... then there's the ...

I can see something coming ... but I'll be through by the time it gets near me ...

SHIT ... he was going faster than I thought ...

HE must have been speeding ... it's HIS fault ...

And scubbing some speed off & getting on your own side in time becomes a problem....

[MSTRS]

....Obviously, we don't get a free toaster. Other minor appliances either.


Hmmm...I find that...interesting...

[Berg]

I guess the point is that the only way to ensure no ticket is to keep witin the speed limit.


This didn't start out as a post on speed, but it actually was. The reason said chap was straightening the corners out was that he was travelling quicker than his 4WD was able to take the bends properly at. Oddly, he had a radar detector. Coincidence? I think not. His choice of speed was more important to him than staying on his own side of the road.

Some people cut corners because they are lazy drivers, some incompetent. Some because they are going a bit quick in the twisties to take the corners while staying on their own side of the road.
I'm obviously a nasty bastard then. The moment he admitted he was going too fast to safely execute the corner I would have charged him with careless.
I'm not scared of dragging people through court

[rastuscat]

Sometimes on right handers this means my head and shoulders might be in the oncoming lane but my wheels & footpegs will be left of the centreline and then only when I can see there's nothing coming. Would you have ticketed me rastuscat?

Hi Jack

(No, I'm not on an airplane with a bomb.)

Funny, I had exactly that discussion with my boss the other day. He wants us to ticket bikers who hang their heads over the centreline, even with the bike to the left of the line. I'm unlikely to do that. I do accept that bikers risk having their heads knocked off by putting them on the other side of the road, but I have to draw the line somewhere. I draw it on the centreline, where the rubber meets the road.

I put it down to discretion. Other Popos exercise more or less discretion. The only way to guarantee that a Popo won't tag you for failing to keep left is to keep the whole of your bike and being on your own side. Odd, I feel as if I'm being too harsh some days, when in fact, objectively, I'm a lot mellower than a lot of our troops.

I remember attending a crash a very long time back on Riddell Road, in Glendowie. There are concrete retaining walls there immediately at the roadside. There are concrete protrusions sticking out that the fence posts for the top mounted fence sit in. A biker was hanging it out on a left hand bend, got too close to the retaining wall on the left, and smacked his head on one of the concrete projections. Bugger. The bike was totally on the road, but his bonce was in contact with the wall to his left. Only one outcome there, I'm afraid.

It's one of the dangers I see in track days. They teach people to use the whole road. I guess it's not too much of an issue as long as said rider remembers that the right hand side of the track ends at the centreline.

Jack, I do the same. I use assertive lines, normally with late apexes, in twisties. But I always stay on my own side. I also allow for the bloody grit that they throw around down here to make the road "safer" in winter.

Safer? Yeah right.

[Metastable]

IMO that's awesome police work. I wish our cops did more of that.

I completely agree that there is NO REASON to cut a corner. It is just a safe practice never to do it. However, what's your take on swinging a little wide before corner entry on a tight left, so that you can get a better look through the corner?

[FJRider]

I completely agree that there is NO REASON to cut a corner. It is just a safe practice never to do it. However, what's your take on swinging a little wide before corner entry on a tight left, so that you can get a better look through the corner?

Be wary of doing that ... anybody exiting those corners (coming the other way) are likely to be on ... or over ... the centreline ... then things get a bit crowded ...

[rastuscat]

However, what's your take on swinging a little wide before corner entry on a tight left, so that you can get a better look through the corner?

Hell no. The plonker in the red Hilux might just be coming the other way. If you want a good view of the corner be as wide as you can on the entry but without crossing the line, and leave some margin for error. If that means not having a good view around the corner, slow down to a point where your speed matches your view.

Alternately, park your bike up, approach the corner on foot, have a look at whats around the bend, walk back to your bike then ride around the corner hoping nothing has changed since you looked. Probably better to just ride a little more conservatively.

Donuts.

[Brian d marge]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gF0Ec7AWE9c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


watch the white line ..... even the loons are careful

Stephen

[oldrider]

watch the white line ..... even the loons are careful Stephen

Can't work out whether you condoning or condemning that behaviour Stephen?

That sort of riding on "the public roads" is what gives motorcycling at large a bad reputation!

The same sort of riding and attitude on a race track would probably have them banned from the track!

Track racing that I have seen is more skilful and disciplined, something to be admired and appreciated!

Revenue collecting from cunts like that?

Bring it on, 100% behind the police on that! :Police: . :niceone:

[rastuscat]

Mmmmmm. Open public roads.

We always bang on about how people pull out in front of us. And yet these guys ride around like there is no risk of it happening. Lots of crashes happen when inattentional blindness happens, both by the riders and other vehicle users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inattentional_blindness

These guys need to go get some track time, and treat the roads with a little more respect. Get dressed up like a racer, ride a sports bike, and chill out a bit.

I guess the bulletproof feeling probably disappeared when he low sided.

Harumph.

[Ntoxcated]

watch the white line ..... even the loons are careful

Stephen

Check out the left hander at 53s :shit: He should have been able to see that car coming as well.

[Maha]

Check out the left hander at 53s :shit: He should have been able to see that car coming as well.

Indeed, stop it at 53s and you can clearly see the car...from the third bike!

[SPman]

If you can't get through a set of corners at pace, without having to cut corners or cross the centreline, it's about time to rethink your on-road attitude! Ultimately, it's a public highway, not a racetrack!

[Brian d marge]

Can't work out whether you condoning or condemning that behaviour Stephen?

That sort of riding on "the public roads" is what gives motorcycling at large a bad reputation!

The same sort of riding and attitude on a race track would probably have them banned from the track!

Track racing that I have seen is more skilful and disciplined, something to be admired and appreciated!

Revenue collecting from cunts like that?

Bring it on, 100% behind the police on that! :Police: . :niceone:

Condemning , stupidity ... even those loony , who are in fact professional racers , hardly ever cross the centre line , and look at the other traffics behavior , they move over , ,,,
ah hhh bolloox to it
Kiwi drivers are just plain crap drivers ,,, right up there with the Italians, the Indian and the Maldives Island

Stephen

Called a spade a spade since Adam was a boy

[Brian d marge]

Check out the left hander at 53s :shit: He should have been able to see that car coming as well.
he did and flicked back to his side of the road
Stephen

[Dodgy_Matt]

watch the white line ..... even the loons are careful

Stephen
I must has been watching a different clip, coz these guys are crap and stupid.

[sinned]

watch the white line ..... even the loons are careful

Stephen

Even the loons are careful? - you are joking of course.

There were numerous incidents in that ride where I would expect a popo to issue a licence losing ticket.

[JMemonic]

Surprising no one local has identified that stretch of road, if its where I think it is there is township very near the bottom of that hill, well there is an intersection first, but that aside, its also a nice wee jaunt for bikes on a lazy Sunday, or silly buggers taking the long way to work. A couple of years back a bike went over the side near there on a weekly ride as well, enough said about that. Oh and If I am right its a 50Kph zone about 20 meters after the photo was taken.

Well done, as the silly biker taking the long way to work could have been me.

[Mad-V2]

I agree with ticketing the idiots crossing the centreline as even when its safe it's really not.
I use the centreline as an edgeline and try not to cross it but will say I have crossed it more than I'd like to admit.
The other dangers are the slippery lines you are crossing and the catseyes that are predictably at 20m spacings, but more often than not there is 2 or 3 catseyes in one spot, and sometimes there's old ones between the good ones at 10m spacings.
Those things are no fun at all to hit at full lean, even at half lean you can wash out the front hitting them at speed.
Catseyes are near the top of my list of biggest enemies on the road, cyclists topping it at number 1 :shutup:

[Metastable]

These guys need to go get some track time, and treat the roads with a little more respect. Get dressed up like a racer, ride a sports bike, and chill out a bit.


I'm not disagreeing with you, but just an FYI.... the one dude is ex-motogp and current BSB rider:
http://www.shakey.com/

.... not sure about the other two.

[Brian d marge]

I must has been watching a different clip, coz these guys are crap and stupid.

oh dear ----- I think the point was lost ----never mind there may be others.....

Stephen

[Dodgy_Matt]

oh dear ----- I think the point was lost ----never mind there may be others.....

Stephen
What was your point? :blink:

[scumdog]

he did and flicked back to his side of the road
Stephen


THIS time..<_<

[oldrider]

If you can't get through a set of corners at pace, without having to cut corners or cross the centreline, it's about time to rethink your on-road attitude! Ultimately, it's a public highway, not a racetrack!

True!

Any rider who thinks they have a "full lane" to ride into on right-hander bends is deluding themselves.

Most NZ drivers hug the centre lane so any oncoming traffic will almost certainly be on the centre line, if not, over it!

That means the rider will have to use their head as their keep left compliance gage!

I.E. If you bang your head on the oncoming vehicle, one of you (or both) have got it wrong!

Don't you just hate it when that happens! :mellow:

Still, when you get out of hospital, you can always contest and claim that "you" were on the correct side of the road at the time!

That's what lawyers and the court system are there for and you do have your rights, don't you?

(Lawyers just love a person with a principal to prove! $$$$$)

The other alternative is to ride defensively and try to avoid becoming involved as a casualty or a victim in the first place. :ride:

[Jack Miller]

True!

Any rider who thinks they have a "full lane" to ride into on right-hander bends is deluding themselves.

Most NZ drivers hug the centre lane so any oncoming traffic will almost certainly be on the centre line, if not, over it!

If you're taking a right hander the oncoming vehicle is taking a left hander. I thought most NZ drivers cut corners so the oncoming vehicle would be close to the left, not the centreline. Still, point made - if you hit an oncoming vehicle with your head on their side of the centreline it's not the oncoming vehicle's fault.

[Brian d marge]

THIS time..<_<

no you are comparing them with new Zealand ......a pissed indian in a Wolsey has more road craft than the average kiwi

already in this thread we have seen justification for cutting corners....anyone d before the unthinking reach for keyboards have a look again as to what was going on in that video

Stephen

[nadroj]

If you're taking a right hander the oncoming vehicle is taking a left hander. I thought most NZ drivers cut corners so the oncoming vehicle would be close to the left, not the centreline. Still, point made - if you hit an oncoming vehicle with your head on their side of the centreline it's not the oncoming vehicle's fault.

But there's only one who feels it!

[SPman]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but just an FYI.... the one dude is ex-motogp and current BSB rider:
http://www.shakey.com/

.... not sure about the other two.
Not an indicator of a skilled ROAD rider with a survival instinct.

[Metastable]

Not an indicator of a skilled ROAD rider with a survival instinct.

Heck he was the worst offender in that video.

[ExpertoCrede]

Set some signs up. Variable message signs.

244419244420244421

Collected revenue from 14 errant motorists.

It's all about raising money for the gubbermint, nothing about penalising bad driving.

Gonna collect some more tomorrow. Unless everyone drives better. Don't think that'll happen.

The driver of this one lectured us about revenue collecting, how unfair it was. Ho hum.

Well you're a published photographer now:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/5474867/Swerve-danger-on-Kiwi-roads

Keep 'em left.

[rastuscat]

Well you're a published photographer now:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/5474867/Swerve-danger-on-Kiwi-roads

Keep 'em left.

Shucks, I'm flattered. The Popo quoted is my boss.

Have a safe weekend dudes and dudettes. Weather permitting, I'm taking Mrs Cat to the Hermitage at Mt Cook village for an overnight chill out. Hope the baby beemer likes the cold !!

Stay upright.

Popo Cat 007

[scumdog]

Weather permitting, I'm taking Mrs Cat to the Hermitage at Mt Cook village for an overnight chill out. Hope the baby beemer likes the cold !!

Stay upright.

Popo Cat 007

A magic ride, me an' mrs Scummy (normajeane) did that trip one summer on a whim (A fancy type of Harley...:whistle:) and it was a blast, such roads, such scenery....:woohoo:

[Milts]

I was pretty damn happy to see that article on Stuff after reading this thread. Maybe a few more people will take notice now.

One of my most terrifying moments was pulling out to pass a van on a very gentle right hand bend (with a good view for about the next 400 meters up the road). The van driver hadn't seen my 3 seconds of indicating and cut the corner.... right as I was passing. I ended up on the right hand shoulder of the road to avoid a collision.. Pulled over a bit further on and he was so very very sorry that he nearly killled me.... I wonder how sorry he would have been if he'd really pushed me off the road?

Elminating bad habits like cutting even clear corners would avoid so many dangers on the roads. Good police work there.

[FJRider]

Elminating bad habits like cutting even clear corners would avoid so many dangers on the roads. Good police work there.

If the guy had checked his mirrors before cutting the corner ... would have been a good idea ...

[MD]

Shucks, I'm flattered. The Popo quoted is my boss.

Have a safe weekend dudes and dudettes. Weather permitting, I'm taking Mrs Cat to the Hermitage at Mt Cook village for an overnight chill out. Hope the baby beemer likes the cold !!

Stay upright.

Popo Cat 007
You are not riding there are you! Apparently the South Island has had a bit of snow last week.

Last time I was at the Hermitage it looked like downtown Tokyo..a sea of yellow faces. Road in may be beautiful but a tad boring to ride = straight

[Milts]

If the guy had checked his mirrors before cutting the corner ... would have been a good idea ...

Yes, I told him so myself.

But to be honest convinving people not to cross the centerline is probably easier than convinving them to do a mirror and shoulder check every time they do cut a corner.

[rastuscat]

Just FYI.

Write a ticket for someone, and it might change their behaviour.

Write that ticket and publish the photo in the paper, and you might change the behaviour of thousands. Maybe not, but maybe so.

Do nothing and nothing changes.

It's the force multiplication I mentioned earlier in the thread. As often as we can we send stuff to the media, and very occasionally they pick up on it. Normally sending them as good photo helps.

All good stuff.

[liljegren]

So cruising off again to Kerikeri tday, almost taken out by motorist coming the other way, swerving WAAAAy over the yellow line to avoid a bloody cyclist, all on a bend. Some fuckwit in Wellington has now decided to have motorists leave them 1.5m of space to wobble around in, whilst putting ALL oncoming traffic in danger. Ban cyclists from our rural roads please!!!!!

[Kickaha]

So cruising off again to Kerikeri tday, almost taken out by motorist coming the other way, swerving WAAAAy over the yellow line to avoid a bloody cyclist, all on a bend. Some fuckwit in Wellington has now decided to have motorists leave them 1.5m of space to wobble around in, whilst putting ALL oncoming traffic in danger. Ban cyclists from our rural roads please!!!!!

The cyclist wasn't at fault, the fuckwit swerving around him was

[Latte]

The cyclist wasn't at fault, the fuckwit swerving around him was

+1 - wait 15 seconds or so (or heaven forbid a minute or 2) for a straight piece of road.

[Jantar]

So cruising off again to Kerikeri tday, almost taken out by motorist coming the other way, swerving WAAAAy over the yellow line to avoid a bloody cyclist, all on a bend. Some fuckwit in Wellington has now decided to have motorists leave them 1.5m of space to wobble around in, whilst putting ALL oncoming traffic in danger. Ban cyclists from our rural roads please!!!!!

With road lanes being 4.5 m wide, there is plenty of room for the cyclist to take up 1.5 meters on the left and still leave 3 meters width to pass without swerving onto the wrong side of the road. The cyclist is only in the wrong if he is in the middle of the lane and obstructing traffic.

[liljegren]

Well Jantar, you've never actually been to Northland have you? People never follow until theres clear road, and there are plenty of roads narrower than 4.5m!!

[Kickaha]

People never follow until there's clear road,

That still doesn't make it the cyclists fault

[oldrider]

The roadside signs say "Share the road"! (showing stick sketch of cyclists with cage)

Well, sure but why not "share the ACC as well then"!? .. :brick:

[FJRider]

That still doesn't make it the cyclists fault

But he has more rights than a cyclist ... to use the road ... right ... ???

[Jantar]

Well Jantar, you've never actually been to Northland have you? People never follow until theres clear road, and there are plenty of roads narrower than 4.5m!!

Northland? Where's that? :no: :laugh:

[Kickaha]

Northland? Where's that? :no: :laugh:

Sounds like it's where the narrowest roads and crappiest drivers are:laugh:

[FJRider]

Northland? Where's that? :no: :laugh:

Somewhere near Taupo ... ????

[Mad-V2]

The standard road width on most N.Z roads is 3.5m with a minimum width on two laned roads of 3m. That goes for all state highways aswell.
If a cyclist wants training he can go to the gym, racetrack or use the many cycle lanes we have all payed for.
Just the same as if we want to go fast on our motorcycles, we have to go to a track at our own expense.
If we want to drive to work, home or anywhere else for that matter we have to use the road. We pay to use that road (through our teeth) and cyclists don't, maybe for their cars they do but not for their pedley bike.
If cyclists want to use the road they should have flashing lights and a pilot vehicle following on behind to warn traffic like every other slow moving vehicle on the road that pays to use it.
Cyclist are a menace on our roads and should be banned!!! BANNED I SAY!!!!!
And here you all are crying about slow drivers being dangerous on our roads :no:
Also ACC pays them out if they have an accident when all they're wearing is their shitty cycle gear for protection. I've seen some going over 70kph down hills :shit: Squids?
Would I be pulled over and ticketed for going 30kph on my motorcycle on SH1? Yes I fucken well would :angry2:

[Jantar]

The standard road width on most N.Z roads is 3.5m with a minimum width on two laned roads of 3m. That goes for all state highways aswell....

Have a look at http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-traffic-standards/docs/rts-15.pdf

It is 3.25 m PLUS 1.2 m allowance for cyclists, making 4.45 m. Ok so I was out by 5 cm. Where no allowance is made for cyclists it is 3.25 m for the marked lane PLUS 0.5 m clearway giving 3.75 m.

[Mad-V2]

I'm talking about the driving lanes, where 99% of cyclists travel. Not the side of the road
Also those guidelines are mostly urban and utilise a cycle lane.
The actual lane width of most roads from the centre of the centreline, to the centre of the edgeline is 3.5m or a minimum of 3m
Check it with a tape measure next time your out and about.
I have painted most of the roads in almost every district in the country over the last 14 years, including the urban ares.

[Berries]

Have a look at http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-traffic-standards/docs/rts-15.pdf

It is 3.25 m PLUS 1.2 m allowance for cyclists, making 4.45 m. Ok so I was out by 5 cm. Where no allowance is made for cyclists it is 3.25 m for the marked lane PLUS 0.5 m clearway giving 3.75 m.
Nah, those widths are through pinch points, like when you leave Alex for Clyde. In general they will try to get a 3.5m lane width or wider and then leave whatever is left as a shoulder between the edge line and edge of seal. Where cyclists position themselves is related to the total seal width - narrow road and they will be in the lane, wide road you'd expect them to be the other side of the edge line. But then that is where all the crap is as well which is why they get in the lane and piss people off.

[pritch]

Ignoring the cycling hijack...

I used to routinely straightline bends but Nick Ienatch is adamant in his book that this is dangerous. Even to the extent that he advises not riding with people who do.

After reading his comments I thought about it and now try to stay on my own side of the road. Besides, seems a shame to come across a nice bend only to turn it into another straight.

[Kickaha]

I see pic three made it into the Saturday press with a paragraph or two about centre line crossers

[JMemonic]

I see pic three made it into the Saturday press with a paragraph or two about centre line crossers

Yeh then in the comments a load of whiners complaining about tourists being the culprits and how safe it as the road just wiggles.

Keep giving out the tickets and some might realise they are not the drivers they believe themselves to be.

[Gixxer peter]

Nah, I think it is a crock. If you have a nice open curve where you have more than 100m clear visibility then you can legally move out of your lane to overtake another vehicle, yet if there is no vehicle ahead of you and you cross the same centre line you can get fined?

On corners where you don't have sufficient visibility then sure, throw the fuckers in jail. But to assume that just because someone cuts a corner where there is plenty of visibility they will cut a corner where there is zero visibility is a bit much IMHO.
i have no problem with this as long as the driver has indicated, for3 seconds, his intention to cross the center line and has checked in his rear vision mirror and blind spot to make sure i am not coming up beside him on the busa, passing him legitamatly (speeling), this has happened a few times with large trucks as i pass, they cut the corner leaving no lane to get by.

[Swoop]

Some fuckwit in Wellington has now decided to have motorists leave them 1.5m of space to wobble around in, whilst putting ALL oncoming traffic in danger. Ban cyclists from our rural roads please!!!!!
There was a misprint. It is "give the lycra-clad-toss-pots 1.5mm".
When they pay ACC levies they are entitled to representation on the roads. Until then they can stay on the fucking footpaths.

[scumdog]

There was a misprint. It is "give the lycra-clad-toss-pots 1.5mm".
When they pay ACC levies they are entitled to representation on the roads. Until then they can stay on the fucking footpaths.

Just like them skiers and joggers and rugby players and ocean-going fishermen and off=raod racers and trail-bike riders and pissed pub-goers and...

[FJRider]

Just like them skiers and joggers and rugby players and ocean-going fishermen and off=raod racers and trail-bike riders and pissed pub-goers and...

Looks like those footpaths are going to get quite crowded ... :innocent:

[riffer]

Just like them skiers and joggers and rugby players and ocean-going fishermen and off=raod racers and trail-bike riders and pissed pub-goers and...

When I was on the Committee for Upper Hutt Junior Rugby I seem to recall a bit of complaint about the amount of money we had to pay ACC for each player. So rugby players do pay their share.

[scumdog]

When I was on the Committee for Upper Hutt Junior Rugby I seem to recall a bit of complaint about the amount of money we had to pay ACC for each player. So rugby players do pay their share.

OK, strike them off!

[Metastable]

I have painted most of the roads in almost every district in the country over the last 14 years, including the urban ares.

I'll give you big props, because I found the lane markings in New Zealand excellent! BTW, being a tourist I found some of the other tourist driving a bit .... shall we say... lacking. Most locals were pretty decent and moved over appropriately, or made passing fairly simple. There must have been a few slow and selfish lane hogs from elsewhere.... like probably Canada. :D

[rastuscat]

+1 - wait 15 seconds or so (or heaven forbid a minute or 2) for a straight piece of road.

Wait? Did you say wait?

Harumph. You must be joking. I pay my road taxes, cyclists don't, it's my road, not his.

(Tongue being removed from cheek)

[FJRider]

I'll give you big props, because I found the lane markings in New Zealand excellent! BTW, being a tourist I found some of the other tourist driving a bit .... shall we say... lacking. Most locals were pretty decent and moved over appropriately, or made passing fairly simple. There must have been a few slow and selfish lane hogs from elsewhere.... like probably Canada. :D

They are mostly fine .. in fine weather ..


but if it rains ... slip sliding away ...

[FJRider]

OK, strike them off!

I bet it's NOT $500 a year ... EACH ... :no:!!!

[Metastable]

They are mostly fine .. in fine weather ..


but if it rains ... slip sliding away ...

But that's the same anywhere. Over here some sections of road use a tape from 3M that actually has great grip levels in the wet, but in needs to be applied to a very smooth surface.

Most of your roads have a very coarse aggregate, there is a huge benefit to that which is less misting and increased visibility. Plus, you do get better traction as a result even in the wet. Now I was driving down there as opposed to riding, so I didn't notice the slipperiness, but that's what happens with paint.

What I really liked about the lane markings is that they were CLEAR and easy to see. Over here they keep changing the lines and will sometimes have 2 or 3 sets and you don't know which one is the new one, or they will take out one, and in daylight it is fine, but if raining, because of the glare/reflection going on at night, you actually can't tell which one is the current line or the one that was taken out.

[Jack Miller]

I've seen some going over 70kph down hills :shit: Squids?
Would I be pulled over and ticketed for going 30kph on my motorcycle on SH1? Yes I fucken well would :angry2:

So you complain when cyclists go slow and you complain when they go fast.

Best I've managed is 89kph down Hatepe hill.

[wysper]

Best I've managed is 89kph down Hatepe hill.

Fark, I got just over 60kph on my treadly once, I was not feeling all that safe!

[scumdog]

Fark, I got just over 60kph on my treadly once, I was not feeling all that safe!

I do that most mornings on my mtb - even have people come into work saying "Dya know ya should give yerself a speeding ticket with the speed I followed ya at onto the bridge..haw-haw-haw"

[Mad-V2]

So you complain when cyclists go slow and you complain when they go fast.

Best I've managed is 89kph down Hatepe hill.

Na their always going too slow, by too fast I mean if ya fall off with ya lycra cycle outfit on at 89kph you get skinned alive and cost the system.
If ya like to cycle as a hobbies, go to a cycle track or race track. Just as we have to if we want to go fast.
The road is for people using Motorvehicles, why the hell anyone would want to play on the road with all those trucks is beyond me anyway

[oneofsix]

Na their always going too slow, by too fast I mean if ya fall off with ya lycra cycle outfit on at 89kph you get skinned alive and cost the system.
If ya like to cycle as a hobbies, go to a cycle track or race track. Just as we have to if we want to go fast.
The road is for people using Motorvehicles, why the hell anyone would want to play on the road with all those trucks is beyond me anyway

agreed. Saw one splitting down the gorge this morning, he wouldn't have had a hope if one of the cages had changed lanes and the driver wouldn't have had time to see him. Perhaps 'speed kills' only applies to motorised transport, another Tui ad.

[rastuscat]

So you complain when cyclists go slow and you complain when they go fast.

Best I've managed is 89kph down Hatepe hill.

Did 92 at the end of Le Race heading down into Akaroa. It's okay though, I had a helmet on.

:laugh:

[FJRider]

... It's okay though, I had a helmet on.

:laugh:

Just as well ... that could have been dangerous NOT to have one ... :innocent:

[skinman]

when I was young & keen used to achieve those sorts of speeds slipstreaming trucks :Punk: & yes I have the scars to proof road riding is dangerous.

[Mad-V2]

And yet if I was cruising through town at 50 wearing shorts and a singlet on the TL, people would stare and say I was just another statistic/madman raising the rego fee's for everyone else.
I wouldn't ride in shorts though coz my Legs are too white and I'd distract other drivers.

[Dodgy_Matt]

so it pays to stay on your side of the road then...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5572128/Two-dead-in-crash-after-car-on-wrong-side-of-road

[oneofsix]

so it pays to stay on your side of the road then...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5572128/Two-dead-in-crash-after-car-on-wrong-side-of-road

It was the WRB that prevented them getting back to the correct two lanes. :drinkup:

[scumdog]

It was the WRB that prevented them getting back to the correct two lanes. :drinkup:

:clap::rofl:

Sounds like a 21st century explanation as to how its not the drivers fault..(lets just quietly gloss over how we came to be on the wrong side of the barrier and complain how we would have been OK if it hadn't been for that persky wrb..:blink:)

[Edbear]

:clap::rofl:

Sounds like a 21st century explanation as to how its not the drivers fault..(lets just quietly gloss over how we came to be on the wrong side of the barrier and complain how we would have been OK if it hadn't been for that persky wrb..:blink:)

It also prevented them from realising they were on the wrong side of the road and therefore stopping and turning around. It prevented them realising cars were coming towards them on "their" lane and it actually caused them to take the right instead of the left as they came up to the expressway... :yes:

[scumdog]

It also prevented them from realising they were on the wrong side of the road and therefore stopping and turning around. It prevented them realising cars were coming towards them on "their" lane and it actually caused them to take the right instead of the left as they came up to the expressway... :yes:

Gadzooks!

Then tear down WRBs!

And tear down the concrete centre-dividers

Tear down the Armco barriers also

And let us be FREEEEEeeeeeee.....

[Edbear]

Gadzooks!

Then tear down WRBs!

And tear down the concrete centre-dividers

Tear down the Armco barriers also

And let us be FREEEEEeeeeeee.....

Certainly! All barriers to 'progress' should be eliminated as they restrict freedom of thought and expression! They create worse drivers by attempting to keep vehicles on the road and facing the right way!

[rastuscat]

Back on topic, one of my guys wrote another 'holding up traffic' ticket today. Bloke was doing 74 in a 100 k area, with 12 cars strung out behind.

In his notes on the rear of his copy of the ticket the cop had written that the driver had argued long and hard, and was in summary, a 'crap driver'.

Yup, hard to argue with that assessment.

[nzspokes]

Back on topic, one of my guys wrote another 'holding up traffic' ticket today. Bloke was doing 74 in a 100 k area, with 12 cars strung out behind.

In his notes on the rear of his copy of the ticket the cop had written that the driver had argued long and hard, and was in summary, a 'crap driver'.

Yup, hard to argue with that assessment.

But some of us are restricted to 70kph by law.

[Shadows]

But some of us are restricted to 70kph by law.

If on the open road you tried to own the lane at 70k without moving over to let traffic travelling at the posted limit pass, then you would deserve a ticket as well.

[FJRider]

But some of us are restricted to 70kph by law.

But you're NOT restricted to the center of the road ...

[Brian d marge]

Back on topic, one of my guys wrote another 'holding up traffic' ticket today. Bloke was doing 74 in a 100 k area, with 12 cars strung out behind.

In his notes on the rear of his copy of the ticket the cop had written that the driver had argued long and hard, and was in summary, a 'crap driver'.

Yup, hard to argue with that assessment.

Hold the offender down , then using , a small , oyster knife , RIP the fkers skin off, the hack out his still beating heart , and feed it to the dogs ,

and just as his pleading eyes ask you why , show him the picture of the 12 cars

then urinate on his lifeless corpse


If I can be off assistance in any of your questioned judgments please don't hesitate to ask

Kind regards

Stephen

[rastuscat]

Hold the offender down , then using , a small , oyster knife , RIP the fkers skin off, the hack out his still beating heart , and feed it to the dogs ,

and just as his pleading eyes ask you why , show him the picture of the 12 cars

then urinate on his lifeless corpse


If I can be off assistance in any of your questioned judgments please don't hesitate to ask

Kind regards

Stephen

Um, not sure how that fits with the Bill of Rights Act 1990. :shit:

Still, I'll keep your note on file, and consider it when we consider alternative resolution for such offences.

Thanks Stephen.

[oneofsix]

Back on topic, one of my guys wrote another 'holding up traffic' ticket today. Bloke was doing 74 in a 100 k area, with 12 cars strung out behind.

In his notes on the rear of his copy of the ticket the cop had written that the driver had argued long and hard, and was in summary, a 'crap driver'.

Yup, hard to argue with that assessment.

Good for your guy.
Trouble is the crap driver probably felt justified with all the "speed kills", "the faster you go the bigger the mess" and there are no excuses for speed advertising. Being a crap driver they had probably never considered their affect on other drivers.

Talking of crap drivers, just observed a two bike indicating trying to move to the left lane approaching lights, gap to move to but as they move towards the left lane a van noses them out only to both miss the lights anyhow. Poor bigger on the little bike got the wobbles trying to avoid the van but held it together. All this in the wet on a rather nasty down hill. Pity i didn't get the van's reg.

[Scuba_Steve]

Um, not sure how that fits with the Bill of Rights Act 1990. :shit:


Doesn't have to does it?
last I checked this law was ignored unless it benefited the Govt gangs.

[Max Preload]

But some of us are restricted to 70kph by law.That's no defense!

[NighthawkNZ]

My 2cents

246680

that is all...

[oneofsix]

My 2cents

246680

that is all...

ahhh the memories :love:

[Jack Miller]

Back on topic, one of my guys wrote another 'holding up traffic' ticket today. Bloke was doing 74 in a 100 k area, with 12 cars strung out behind.

In his notes on the rear of his copy of the ticket the cop had written that the driver had argued long and hard, and was in summary, a 'crap driver'.

Yup, hard to argue with that assessment.

As a matter of interest, what is the ratio of impeding vs speeding tickets your guys issue?

[rastuscat]

As a matter of interest, what is the ratio of impeding vs speeding tickets your guys issue?

Yeah, bugger all, we should do more of them.

I've already posted why so few get written. But it's not enough. I had that chat with my HP troops a month or so ago, and the reasons are many. Basically it's a difficult offence to police, as the defences are many.

One interesting thing was the response that it is often the second car that is the problem, not the first. The first one goes slow, but if the second one would just get off it's arse and overtake the third fourth and fifth could also get past.

Now, that's a hard one to enforce, making the second in queue overtake.

[Geeen]

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to rastuscat again...

wot he said

[Berries]

One interesting thing was the response that it is often the second car that is the problem, not the first. The first one goes slow, but if the second one would just get off it's arse and overtake the third fourth and fifth could also get past.

Now, that's a hard one to enforce, making the second in queue overtake.
You could always do them for following too close and preventing vehicle number three from overtaking vehicle number two before overtaking vehicle number one. It's the number two vehicle that sits right up the chuff of the slow vehicle that causes all the problems.

If there is a queue of five vehicles behind someone going slow, could you not lift the speed limit tolerance by 40%?

[RUSS]

[QUOTE=Hitcher;1130128005]From the photos in the original post, it's hard to tell whether a crime is actually being committed or whether the Police are merely being pedantic.


DON BRASH!!!!!!! Don't think you can hide your identity with a bad self photo, there is no mistaking it, we know your face. This is going to be the sequel to the drugs are OK and so is cutting the corner because to have laws against it restricts personal freedom of choice yes?

[Jack Miller]

Now, that's a hard one to enforce, making the second in queue overtake.

Legally he doesn't have to overtake. But if he's not going to overtake he has to leave enough gap so that anyone coming up behind doesn't have to pass both, just him then the one in front.

[rastuscat]

You could always do them for following too close and preventing vehicle number three from overtaking.......

Yeah, it happens.

Imagine yourself as the guy in the second vehicle. You get up close in order that when a chance to pass arrives, you're in a better position to do so. Then a cop sees you following too close, and pings you for same.

''OH YOU REVENUE COLLECTING BASTARD, I'M GOING TO GET ON KB AND RAVE ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE A QUOTA AND HAVE TO GET MORE TICKETS OR YOU'LL BE SHAFTED TO...............UM..................TRAFFIC DUTY...................''

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Harumph. :bs:

[Mad-V2]

Yeah, it happens.

Imagine yourself as the guy in the second vehicle. You get up close in order that when a chance to pass arrives, you're in a better position to do so. Then a cop sees you following too close, and pings you for same.

''OH YOU REVENUE COLLECTING BASTARD, I'M GOING TO GET ON KB AND RAVE ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE A QUOTA AND HAVE TO GET MORE TICKETS OR YOU'LL BE SHAFTED TO...............UM..................TRAFFIC DUTY...................''

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Harumph. :bs:

And here I thought it was the people getting tickets that complained the most......

[DMNTD]

Yeah fecking pigs! One gave me a ticket for doing 120kmph last Monday...instead of the 157kmph one he could have given me :facepalm:

Very 'professional' cop, great attitude and took into account that I was over taking a vehicle at the time, I was on a WOF/Reg'd bike and that I passed the attitude test.
I actually shook his hand as he continued on until he found a safe place to do a u-turn :yes:

There are gooduns out there, it's just a pity he was a part of a minority imo



Ooops my bad! Fuck the (cunty) Police!

[rastuscat]

And here I thought it was the people getting tickets that complained the most......

Nope, the bitching at the donut shop is hard to beat :yes:

[Edbear]

Yeah, bugger all, we should do more of them.

I've already posted why so few get written. But it's not enough. I had that chat with my HP troops a month or so ago, and the reasons are many. Basically it's a difficult offence to police, as the defences are many.

One interesting thing was the response that it is often the second car that is the problem, not the first. The first one goes slow, but if the second one would just get off it's arse and overtake the third fourth and fifth could also get past.

Now, that's a hard one to enforce, making the second in queue overtake.

And Murphy's law says you will always be the third or fifth in the queue and can't do anything about it! :bye:

[davereid]

[B]One gave me a ticket for doing 120kmph last Monday...instead of the 157kmph one he could have given me :facepalm:


Where do you get your GN125 tuned. ? I need to go there.

[DMNTD]

Where do you get your GN125 tuned. ? I need to go there.

Oh yes...pure intimidation on 2 wheels eh! :sunny:

[steve_t]

Thread dredge. LOL and facepalm at the same time

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858933

276280

[Zedder]

Not just over, waaay over! The common or garden species arseholius driverificus.

[pzkpfw]

Thread dredge. LOL and facepalm at the same time

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858933

While those look way past reasonable, the pics don't show the corners nor what view the drivers had - so I'd want opinions from someone who knows the road before condemning them.

(On my bike, I will occasionally choose to cross certain yellows to pass. I've even done it in my car. So I'm not going to point fingers at others without knowing a little more.)

Again, I'm not saying the cars in the pics are doing anything "good". I just don't think the drivers ought to be hanged without more information.

[Zedder]

While those look way past reasonable, the pics don't show the corners nor what view the drivers had - so I'd want opinions from someone who knows the road before condemning them.

(On my bike, I will occasionally choose to cross certain yellows to pass. I've even done it in my car. So I'm not going to point fingers at others without knowing a little more.)

Again, I'm not saying the cars in the pics are doing anything "good". I just don't think the drivers ought to be hanged without more information.

Who said anything about hanging? They got ticketed for being clearly over the lines. If there was some mitigating circumstances don't you think they wouldn't have got done?

[Jantar]

I know that road well, and being on the wrong side of the road at Devils Staircase isn't just careless, its downright dangerous. Just ask Hayd3n what happens on that piece of road when there is a car on the wrong side.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123677-95-yzf-600r-frame-running-engine-now-1150?p=1129759295#post1129759295

[Dragon]

In regards to riding as far left as possible

I ride and always have ridden/been taught to ride in the centre of your lane and have found whenever I stick to the left I have people come up my ass and then try and pass me by pushing me over further

Also riding to the far left there is always a lot of crap on the road :s

Am I in the wrong I mean I stick to the speed limit or about 5km over depending on the flow of traffic

I am happy to pull over where safe to let people pass if there is a queue behind me

Example 1

I rode Paekoriki hill the other weekend and had one bike pass me ( I was doing 60km on my speedo ( have since discovered my speedo is 5km out) and tbh I slowed down for every corner I also pulled over for a guy in a bmw who gave me space but I knew wanted to pass me and go faster

I just get pissed off when Im doing the speed limit or slightly over and other people think they own the road

Example 2

Riding in this morning in heavy rain I was behind a car that had no rear view mirror visablity (his whole rear windscreen was covered as he had filled his station wagon up) I rode to the right near the centre of the road (there was a median strip next to me) so that he could see me clearly in my side mirror

I rode in this position as a. Im not confident enough to lane split down the left hand side and also there was a large amount of water pooling and I thought it would be dangerous to do so.

b. as the car was driving to the left I had space that had I needed to stop quickly could have gone into as the guy behind me was pretty close I had left a good distance infront of me as well consider we where doing 5-50km but im alittle paranoid

Was I in the wrong for doing this ??

[Zedder]

In regards to riding as far left as possible

I ride and always have ridden/been taught to ride in the centre of your lane and have found whenever I stick to the left I have people come up my ass and then try and pass me by pushing me over further

Also riding to the far left there is always a lot of crap on the road :s

Am I in the wrong I mean I stick to the speed limit or about 5km over depending on the flow of traffic

I am happy to pull over where safe to let people pass if there is a queue behind me

Example 1

I rode Paekoriki hill the other weekend and had one bike pass me ( I was doing 60km on my speedo ( have since discovered my speedo is 5km out) and tbh I slowed down for every corner I also pulled over for a guy in a bmw who gave me space but I knew wanted to pass me and go faster

I just get pissed off when Im doing the speed limit or slightly over and other people think they own the road

Example 2

Riding in this morning in heavy rain I was behind a car that had no rear view mirror visablity (his whole rear windscreen was covered as he had filled his station wagon up) I rode to the right near the centre of the road (there was a median strip next to me) so that he could see me clearly in my side mirror

I rode in this position as a. Im not confident enough to lane split down the left hand side and also there was a large amount of water pooling and I thought it would be dangerous to do so.

b. as the car was driving to the left I had space that had I needed to stop quickly could have gone into as the guy behind me was pretty close I had left a good distance infront of me as well consider we where doing 5-50km but im alittle paranoid

Was I in the wrong for doing this ??

Read the two pages in this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/you-and-your-motorcycle/being-seen-on-the-road.html

[Dragon]

Read the two pages in this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/you-and-your-motorcycle/being-seen-on-the-road.html

Cheers for that I thought I was in the right but I had honsetly forgotten about what you pointed out :)

its good to be reminded

In regards to the visiblity thing I always assume im invisiable even with the fact im on a bright blue bike and this morning I had a big bright orange pack liner on my pack rack

[arcane12]

In regards to riding as far left as possible

I ride and always have ridden/been taught to ride in the centre of your lane and have found whenever I stick to the left I have people come up my ass and then try and pass me by pushing me over further

Also riding to the far left there is always a lot of crap on the road :s

Am I in the wrong I mean I stick to the speed limit or about 5km over depending on the flow of traffic

I am happy to pull over where safe to let people pass if there is a queue behind me

Example 1

I rode Paekoriki hill the other weekend and had one bike pass me ( I was doing 60km on my speedo ( have since discovered my speedo is 5km out) and tbh I slowed down for every corner I also pulled over for a guy in a bmw who gave me space but I knew wanted to pass me and go faster

I just get pissed off when Im doing the speed limit or slightly over and other people think they own the road

Example 2

Riding in this morning in heavy rain I was behind a car that had no rear view mirror visablity (his whole rear windscreen was covered as he had filled his station wagon up) I rode to the right near the centre of the road (there was a median strip next to me) so that he could see me clearly in my side mirror

I rode in this position as a. Im not confident enough to lane split down the left hand side and also there was a large amount of water pooling and I thought it would be dangerous to do so.

b. as the car was driving to the left I had space that had I needed to stop quickly could have gone into as the guy behind me was pretty close I had left a good distance infront of me as well consider we where doing 5-50km but im alittle paranoid

Was I in the wrong for doing this ??


In my personal opinion if you are doing the SPEED LIMIT (or a little over) other road users have no recourse to complain. Maybe you might be a little slow on corners, but it sounds like you are considerate enough to make allowances where possible.

The recommended lane position is in line with the right hand wheels of where a car would be. This is for better visibility - yours and theirs.

I personally would ride somewhere nearish the middle, if there is no traffic on my side of the road, the right when there is, and obviously right or left depending on how I plan on taking a corner. If I see someone behind me looking to overtake I might give him room. If it's a straight and it's a bike I will pull over to the left If it's a car I don't like to go more than the middle - as you say a car will not always give you the space you need, so you have to make allowances.

The most important thing to remember is to do what ever is best to keep yourself safe. Sometimes this could be to pull over and let an aggressive car pass - not my first reaction when a turd like that turns up, but we all want to go home at the end of the day, and smallest guy loses.

[Dragon]

In my personal opinion if you are doing the SPEED LIMIT (or a little over) other road users have no recourse to complain. Maybe you might be a little slow on corners, but it sounds like you are considerate enough to make allowances where possible.

The recommended lane position is in line with the right hand wheels of where a car would be. This is for better visibility - yours and theirs.

I personally would ride somewhere nearish the middle, if there is no traffic on my side of the road, the right when there is, and obviously right or left depending on how I plan on taking a corner. If I see someone behind me looking to overtake I might give him room. If it's a straight and it's a bike I will pull over to the left If it's a car I don't like to go more than the middle - as you say a car will not always give you the space you need, so you have to make allowances.

The most important thing to remember is to do what ever is best to keep yourself safe. Sometimes this could be to pull over and let an aggressive car pass - not my first reaction when a turd like that turns up, but we all want to go home at the end of the day, and smallest guy loses.

Its good to see I am on the right track then its been ages since Ive been out riding so just wanted some clarification

As much as I want to slow down to 45 to teach the fker a leason I know what its like to be fustrated by slow drivers and if its safe for me to pull over I will and I always get a toot of thanks

Another pet peeve of mine is people tooting at me when im stopping for a stop sign or give way espically when they cant see what I can or realize that ill go when im bloody well ready and if I dont think its safe to go I wont because if a car hits me my chances of dying are higher then the guy in his car tooting at me even if it is alittle daunting

I do change my position on the road to match the best line for the corner (staying on my side of the road) if I go over the center line its because Ive fked up and not gotten the bike over enough hence why I tend to be alittle slow as I tend to reduce speed instead of using the whole road

However if I can see 100m ahead and know the road I have used both lanes but I havent done this on the bike as Im way to paranoid about being hit

[Zedder]

Cheers for that I thought I was in the right but I had honsetly forgotten about what you pointed out :)

its good to be reminded

In regards to the visiblity thing I always assume im invisiable even with the fact im on a bright blue bike and this morning I had a big bright orange pack liner on my pack rack

No problem, saved me a bit of writing. Yep, revision is always good.

[scumdog]

However if I can see 100m ahead and know the road I have used both lanes but I havent done this on the bike as Im way to paranoid about being hit

Don't do it at all, in a car or a bike.

You might be OK all the time - but there's a good chance one day a car will pop up well within that 100m that you 'could see was clear'.

And it might not go well at that point...

[steve_t]

I guess I'm just a puppet to the system but when I see yellows, there's no crossing them regardless of visibility (which is generally poor and the reason they're there anyway). Luckily, most of the time, the bike can squeeze up without crossing the yellows if there is good visibility

[Edbear]

There is a reason for putting double yellow lines on a road...

[Scuba_Steve]

There used to be a reason for putting double yellow lines on a road...

Fixed that for ya Ed :msn-wink: Ever since the crazy with the yellow paint got released, yellow lines have lost their absolute.

[Edbear]

Fixed that for ya Ed :msn-wink: Ever since the crazy with the yellow paint got released, yellow lines have lost their absolute.

Like many road rules, if it weren't for the incompetent drivers we allow behind the wheel we wouldn't need so many.

The sooner TPTB start making idiots re-sit their licences after being ticketed the sooner we will see an overall improvement in the standard of driving!

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fixed that for ya Ed :msn-wink: Ever since the crazy with the yellow paint got released, yellow lines have lost their absolute.


Yeah! After seeing how they have been abused by our traffic managers I can't take them seriously any more.

Ultimately this type of abuse is likely to see the intent rewarded with the exact opposite result.

If they want to make straight flat sections of road no passing (as opposed to genuinely dangerous and/or deceptive sections) then they should use an alternative method.

[Scuba_Steve]

Like many road rules, if it weren't for the incompetent drivers we allow behind the wheel we wouldn't need so many.

The sooner TPTB start making idiots re-sit their licences after being ticketed the sooner we will see an overall improvement in the standard of driving!

dumbing down the roads dumbs down the drivers.
& wrong, sooner TPTB start treating the licence as proof of ability to drive is the sooner we'll see an overall improvement of the standard of driving (& a lovely side-effect of an overall drop in driver numbers)

[flyingcrocodile46]

Like many road rules, if it weren't for the incompetent drivers we allow behind the wheel we wouldn't need so many.

The sooner TPTB start making idiots re-sit their licences after being ticketed the sooner we will see an overall improvement in the standard of driving!


And the more rules/restrictions (many seemingly pointless) the more likely it is that people will not be able to find any logic in their structure that they can link with common sense and then they will reason that there isn't any reliable logic to using common sense when it doesn't equate to the rules/law/regulations etc. Then they start thinking (or not) that as long as there isn't a rule that explicitly says that something shouldn't be done, it must be ok to do it. Then we will need even more rules and pretty soon we won't be able to pick our nose or sratch our arse without a permit.

[FJRider]

Don't do it at all, in a car or a bike.

You might be OK all the time - but there's a good chance one day a car will pop up well within that 100m that you 'could see was clear'.

And it might not go well at that point...

By my calculator ... at 100 km/hr ... it takes 2.6666 seconds to travel that 100 metres. <_<

What could go wrong in that space of time ... :scratch:

[flyingcrocodile46]

By my calculator ... at 100 km/hr ... it takes 2.6666 seconds to travel that 100 metres. <_<

What could go wrong in that space of time ... :scratch:


You are allowed to exceed the speed limit when overtaking to reduce unnecessary time on the wrong side of the road. Re-calculate at 160kph :msn-wink:

[FJRider]

You are allowed to exceed the speed limit when overtaking to reduce unnecessary time on the wrong side of the road. Re-calculate at 160kph :msn-wink:

Speed kills ... so you can't survive to reach those speeds.

Unless you are doing the secret KB wave as you pass that vehicle.

[scumdog]

dumbing down the roads dumbs down the drivers.
& wrong, sooner TPTB start treating the licence as proof of ability to drive is the sooner we'll see an overall improvement of the standard of driving (& a lovely side-effect of an overall drop in driver numbers)

That would work Steve - as soon as the drivers test was meaningful.
At the moment you can only treat it as proof that at some time the owner of the licence knew the minimum required to pass said test...<_<

[Zedder]

I guess I'm just a puppet to the system but when I see yellows, there's no crossing them regardless of visibility (which is generally poor and the reason they're there anyway). Luckily, most of the time, the bike can squeeze up without crossing the yellows if there is good visibility

No, I think you're being a safe rider/driver who is proud of keeping to a skill set and laws as opposed to other idiots who think it's ok to endanger themselves and others.

I was utterly gobsmacked to read a post about actually choosing to cross the double yellow lines both on a bike and in a car. Get the fuck off the road if you can't be bothered to do it properly and safely.

[Jantar]

You are allowed to exceed the speed limit when overtaking to reduce unnecessary time on the wrong side of the road. .......
I do wish this was true. it would have saved me $120 last September.:rolleyes:

[scumdog]

You are allowed to exceed the speed limit when overtaking to reduce unnecessary time on the wrong side of the road.

And if the cop ain't wearing his hat he can't give you a ticket anyway...:msn-wink:

[flyingcrocodile46]

And if the cop ain't wearing his hat he can't give you a ticket anyway...:msn-wink:

Heh! Gotta put the seat down first eh:msn-wink:

[Gremlin]

I rode in this position as a. Im not confident enough to lane split down the left hand side and also there was a large amount of water pooling and I thought it would be dangerous to do so.
Don't ever pass on the left...


There is a reason for putting double yellow lines on a road...
There actually isn't double yellow lines. The yellow line on the other side of the road has absolutely no relevance to you at all. All you can have is a single yellow line. The other side can then also have a single yellow line for them...

[pzkpfw]

...

I was utterly gobsmacked to read a post about actually choosing to cross the double yellow lines both on a bike and in a car. Get the fuck off the road if you can't be bothered to do it properly and safely.

You are making quite an assumption about what is safe when and where. Unless the yellow line is itself made of extra slippery paint, it's mere existence doesn't always mean "unsafe" in all situations in all cases.

(P.S. Crossing yellow is crossing yellow, double yellow doesn't make it super-extra yellow.)

[FJRider]

There actually isn't double yellow lines. The yellow line on the other side of the road has absolutely no relevance to you at all. All you can have is a single yellow line. The other side can then also have a single yellow line for them...

Looks like double yellows to me ... :laugh:

<iframe width="425" height="240" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.co.nz/?ie=UTF8&amp;t=h&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=-45.393072,169.292889&amp;panoid=kS7mrg-uGqjln_-pH6hGHg&amp;cbp=13,199.05,,0,0&amp;ll=-45.408574,169.303179&amp;spn=0.028923,0.072956&amp;z=13&amp;so urce=embed&amp;output=svembed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.co.nz/?ie=UTF8&amp;t=h&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=-45.393072,169.292889&amp;panoid=kS7mrg-uGqjln_-pH6hGHg&amp;cbp=13,199.05,,0,0&amp;ll=-45.408574,169.303179&amp;spn=0.028923,0.072956&amp;z=13&amp;so urce=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

[pzkpfw]

Looks like double yellows to me ... :laugh:

...

I think you missed the point.

(Or were you joking and I missed your point? Now I've confused myself.)

[FJRider]

You are making quite an assumption about what is safe when and where. Unless the yellow line is itself made of extra slippery paint, it's mere existence doesn't always mean "unsafe" in all situations in all cases.

(P.S. Crossing yellow is crossing yellow, double yellow doesn't make it super-extra yellow.)

But at least when YOU cross the double yellow lines ... you nothing will be coming the other way on your side of the road ... eh .. !!! Because It is against the rules ... right ... ???

[Coolz]

Yeah! After seeing how they have been abused by our traffic managers I can't take them seriously any more.

Ultimately this type of abuse is likely to see the intent rewarded with the exact opposite result.

If they want to make straight flat sections of road no passing (as opposed to genuinely dangerous and/or deceptive sections) then they should use an alternative method.

In sport, work, some leisure activities, or anything else governed by a set of rules, people will follow them without a second thought. They realise if everyone plays to the same set of rules the system must be fair to all. Yet when it comes to the road, the most deadly game of all, people think they have the right to analyse the rules and only follow those which they agree with.

[FJRider]

I think you missed the point.

(Or were you joking and I missed your point? Now I've confused myself.)

Maybe ... you missed mine ... :msn-wink:

[Zedder]

You are making quite an assumption about what is safe when and where. Unless the yellow line is itself made of extra slippery paint, it's mere existence doesn't always mean "unsafe" in all situations in all cases.

(P.S. Crossing yellow is crossing yellow, double yellow doesn't make it super-extra yellow.)

I suppose you treat red traffic lights the same way. Forget about the legality and being safe, it's only a red colour.

[Scuba_Steve]

And if the cop ain't wearing his hat he can't give you a ticket anyway...:msn-wink:

It's doubly true, cause not only did a cop tell me but he did it on teh interwebs

[Ocean1]

Looks like double yellows to me ... :laugh:

It does eh?

Is there some reason they're there that's not obvious in teh pic?

[pzkpfw]

I suppose you treat red traffic lights the same way. Forget about the legality and being safe, it's only a red colour.

Never happened to me, but go read some of the stories of folk who have bikes that don't trigger some of the sensors. Most normal people will eventually just (after checking very very carefully that nothing is coming) go.

And you still equate legal with safe as though they mean the exact same thing. Sure, blasting through a red is illegal and unsafe. But carefully going through a red, in certain circumstances, may still be illegal - but might not be unsafe (in certain circumstances).

(Though again, never done it myself in a car or on a bike. Though I did get laughed at once, when I was 14 years old, sitting at a red on my bicycle one night with no cars for miles around. Can't win, can I?)