Advice needed, 300 EXC or 450 EXC?

[Crisis management]

I'm thinking of replacing the 200 EXC with something easier to ride, I'm clearly getting old & slow! The 200 has been great but I'm over the "lets hit the power band" and the need for lots of momentum to get up hills, I rode a 525 for one lap of the last 2 man and despite being a bit heavier in the front it was nice to just trundle up any hill at will and loft the front over logs controllably.
I had always thought of buying a 300 EXC next but I'm now considering a 4 stroke, either a 400 or 450 EXC, my main concern with the 450 is that it seems to have a reputation as too fast & powerful for mere mortals. I'm an average rider on a good day and ride single track at Riverhead and Woodhill mainly but like the idea of some more linear power and torque without having to put up with a lot more weight.




I'm all ears, anyone with an opinion or advice is welcome to contribute!

[White trash]

I'm thinking of replacing the 200 EXC with something easier to ride, I'm clearly getting old & slow! The 200 has been great but I'm over the "lets hit the power band" and the need for lots of momentum to get up hills, I rode a 525 for one lap of the last 2 man and despite being a bit heavier in the front it was nice to just trundle up any hill at will and loft the front over logs controllably.
I had always thought of buying a 300 EXC next but I'm now considering a 4 stroke, either a 400 or 450 EXC, my main concern with the 450 is that it seems to have a reputation as too fast & powerful for mere mortals. I'm an average rider on a good day and ride single track at Riverhead and Woodhill mainly but like the idea of some more linear power and torque without having to put up with a lot more weight.




I'm all ears, anyone with an opinion or advice is welcome to contribute!

350 XC-F or EXC-F if you're after the lights. Phe-Fucken-Nominal. Nuff said.

Failing that, I've got a 2010 400 EXC (New) that you can have for $12300. Plus an extra $350 if you want all the Akrapovic exhaust, factory graphics, blah, blah.....

[motor_mayhem]

I had a 450 exc and it was really good though I only got it off road once, I have a 525 exc at the moment and I find it good but a bit on the tall side with a little bit more weight than the 450. The 450 also didn't have the hitting power that my rmz did but then not the horrific maintenance intervals either, I think it would probably make a really good trail bike. Have had a go on the 350's, they are as good as WT and many other reviewers say but my budget doesn't stretch that far.

[ktm84mxc]

TMG are having a demo day next sat20th at the Sandpit on hand will be KTM's 150-500 range off EXC & XC models, best to ring Blake and put your name down.
I'm down for the XC300 & XC350f.

[L Rider]

Cyclespot who have taken on the ktm's on the shore have a demo day tomorrow at Leightons Farm.

[Jay GTI]

This I did not know... bugger, would have gone out as I'm quite keen to try the other 350s. Reckon the SX-F makes a fine trail weapon out of the box, but it's a bit tall geared and flat off the bottom to do the tight stuff, would like to see how the EXC-F makes power with the different internals and 6 speed box.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm thinking of replacing the 200 EXC with something easier to ride, I'm clearly getting old & slow! The 200 has been great but I'm over the "lets hit the power band" and the need for lots of momentum to get up hills, I rode a 525 for one lap of the last 2 man and despite being a bit heavier in the front it was nice to just trundle up any hill at will and loft the front over logs controllably.
I had always thought of buying a 300 EXC next but I'm now considering a 4 stroke, either a 400 or 450 EXC, my main concern with the 450 is that it seems to have a reputation as too fast & powerful for mere mortals. I'm an average rider on a good day and ride single track at Riverhead and Woodhill mainly but like the idea of some more linear power and torque without having to put up with a lot more weight.




I'm all ears, anyone with an opinion or advice is welcome to contribute!

Why not the 250 EXC-F?

i was looking at this as my next bike after i flick off the XR250 i am currently on.
Or i was going to wait till 2012 for the new 350 EXC-F.

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news/2011/2012-ktm-350-excf-24858

[White trash]

Or i was going to wait till 2012 for the new 350 EXC-F.

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/news/2011/2012-ktm-350-excf-24858

Why wait? They're here now.

[Ktmboy]

Cyclespot who have taken on the ktm's on the shore have a demo day tomorrow at Leightons Farm.

I think the demo tomorrow is limited to 15 riders and by invite (what the bird told me).

If you rock up to The Sandpit on the 20th then you don't need to register. It may pay to as I suspect the XC350F (EXC350F but without the headlight, horn etc) will be fairly well booked out.
Me thinking I could steal it for a quick loop myself.

[White trash]

. It may pay to as I suspect the XC350F (EXC350F but without the headlight, horn etc) will be fairly well booked out.
.

Nope. More like a 350 SX-F with an extra gear than an EXC-F. But yeah, they're pretty hot property at the moment. All the 350s are actually.

[L Rider]

Below is what Cyclespot have on their FB page.


Announcing the KTM 2012 demo day - Sat Aug 13th @ Leighton's Farm, South Head. Strictly limited places, RSVP asap to secure a place. (Register with Fraser in our parts dept to confirm your place ph (09) 486-1136, ext 6)
- Morning session 9.30-11.30am
- Afternoon session 1-4pm

* 10 different KTM models to demo - full XC & EXC range

Be one of the 1st in the country to try these machines !!! Get in quick

[Crisis management]

TMG are having a demo day next sat20th at the Sandpit

Bollocks, I'm supposed to be helping my sister shift house that day, I'll see what I can "negotiate".


Thanks for the heads up about demo's, anyone got an opinion on the bikes?

[BoristheBiter]

Why wait? They're here now.

Are they? when I look at the line up for nz (ktm nz web site) it doesn't show it.

[White trash]

Are they? when I look at the line up for nz (ktm nz web site) it doesn't show it.

Sure are. Already delivered 4 x 350 XC-Fs this week. Got a 250 EXC-F going out tomorrow and 2 x 350 EXC-Fs next week.

It's a great time to be a KTM dealer :)

I'm going out for a play Sunday on the 250 XC-F again.

[ktm84mxc]

Yep the 012 models are here,
EXC- PDS non linkage, can rego, etc
XC- SX style linkage, no lights, side stand, larger fuel tank, some with elec start, sx type exhaust.

[mattnzl]

Yep the 012 models are here,
EXC- PDS non linkage, can rego, etc
XC- SX style linkage, no lights, side stand, larger fuel tank, some with elec start, sx type exhaust.

Hmmm, so http://ktm.co.nz/ is a bit of a shit website then <_<

[CRF119]

I ride a CRF450 they aren't to powerful, they are harder on the body. When you twist the gas in any gear or rev range it will go. Done 160 hours no probs

I rode a 300exc and found it had good bottom to mid but really lacked top end probably a great trail riding bike with the + side of less moving parts so less rebuilding cost. Also easier to start then my CRF450

Feed back ive had on the 350F from KTM is it lacks torque so in the slop or sand its going to be slower.

[BoristheBiter]

Sure are. Already delivered 4 x 350 XC-Fs this week. Got a 250 EXC-F going out tomorrow and 2 x 350 EXC-Fs next week.

It's a great time to be a KTM dealer :)

I'm going out for a play Sunday on the 250 XC-F again.

God dam it now i will have to go and buy one this year.
Anyone want to buy a 2000 XR250?

[BoristheBiter]

Hmmm, so http://ktm.co.nz/ is a bit of a shit website then <_<

Definitely looks that way.

[BoristheBiter]

Sure are. Already delivered 4 x 350 XC-Fs this week. Got a 250 EXC-F going out tomorrow and 2 x 350 EXC-Fs next week.

It's a great time to be a KTM dealer :)

I'm going out for a play Sunday on the 250 XC-F again.

So whats the basic differance between them all? excf, xcf and sxf?

[ktm84mxc]

Here we go boris
SXf motocross linkage, no side stand, 19inch rear, close ratio gear box, mx suspension
XCf mx linkage, side stand, larger fuel tank, mx exhaust, mx suspension, wide ratio gear box, no lights.
EXCf PDS no linkage, full lighting & can road reg, side stand, enduro spec suspension & exhaust
The XC models are an american model built up for there cross country races in the desert & prairies eg montana, texas, utah.
At last count KTM make 10 distinct 250cc models, some times it is to much choice.

[Jay GTI]

SX-F - Motocross bike, 5 speed, 19in rear wheel, black standard tank, linkage rear
XC-F - Cross country bike, based on SX-F, 6 speed, 18in rear wheel, clear larger tank, linkage rear
EXC-F - Enduro bike, enduro spec engines, 6 speed, 18 in rear wheel, clear larger tank, no linkage/PDS rear.

Or something close to that anyway.

[White trash]

God dam it now i will have to go and buy one this year.
Anyone want to buy a 2000 XR250?

Yup. I'll trade it no worries.

[White trash]

So whats the basic differance between them all? excf, xcf and sxf?


Here we go boris
SXf motocross linkage, no side stand, 19inch rear, close ratio gear box, mx suspension
XCf mx linkage, side stand, larger fuel tank, mx exhaust, mx suspension, wide ratio gear box, no lights.
EXCf PDS no linkage, full lighting & can road reg, side stand, enduro spec suspension & exhaust
The XC models are an american model built up for there cross country races in the desert & prairies eg montana, texas, utah.
At last count KTM make 10 distinct 250cc models, some times it is to much choice.


SX-F - Motocross bike, 5 speed, 19in rear wheel, black standard tank, linkage rear
XC-F - Cross country bike, based on SX-F, 6 speed, 18in rear wheel, clear larger tank, linkage rear
EXC-F - Enduro bike, enduro spec engines, 6 speed, 18 in rear wheel, clear larger tank, no linkage/PDS rear.

Or something close to that anyway.

What these two esteemed gentlemen have already pointed out.

[Mungatoke Mad]

So whats the basic differance between them all? excf, xcf and sxf?EXC Stands for Excellent Choice XCF stands for Xtraordinary cute Fucker & sxf's are for silly X fukers who would rather fuk around with a kick start rather than push a button

[Jay GTI]

EXC Stands for Excellent Choice XCF stands for Xtraordinary cute Fucker & sxf's are for silly X fukers who would rather fuk around with a kick start rather than push a button

Good luck finding the kickstart on my SX-F ;)

[barty5]

TMG are having a demo day next sat20th at the Sandpit on hand will be KTM's 150-500 range off EXC & XC models, best to ring Blake and put your name down.
I'm down for the XC300 & XC350f.


dont forget to take yah wallet you need to pay to test them over heard them talking about it last week when i was across the road at their store talking bout it.

[ktm84mxc]

Yep Barty is right it'll cost you $12.50 to demo ride the bikes, if you bring your own it'll be $25 charge to ride & the demos are free that way you can compare them to your steed. There's a BBQ & drinks to.
It's all to do with the insurance & related costs at the venue.

[barty5]

Yep Barty is right it'll cost you $12.50 to demo ride the bikes, if you bring your own it'll be $25 charge to ride & the demos are free that way you can compare them to your steed. There's a BBQ & drinks to.
It's all to do with the insurance & related costs at the venue.

might have to come have a look as it is just round the corner. if i dont go fishing

[rogerh]

Iain, I am pretty interested in your original question as well. Unlike most of these fellas, I cant afford to stump up for a nice new 350. I understand the not insignificant advantages of the new tech, but I am just not that serious or well off.

When I got my 450, I was actually looking for a 300, as I like the two stroke thing. Mostly ridden these off road in the past. Distant past. Before power valves etc. So I was very keen to get some new(er) tech in two strokes. I rode a couple briefly, and was pretty excited and awe struck with their awsome performance and potential compared to previous experience. Then I brought the berg (with a grenaded engine) without riding it (but rode a similar one).

I have to say I don't regret getting the 450, but it does not stop me missing some of the two stroke characteristics. I think it largely depends on the type of riding you prefer. For woodhill and the likes, I find the 450 fine, and possibly an advantage I would say. Grunt everywhere, and like you say, it just eats hills. But the disadvantage is weight. I don't feel this when riding, but when the going gets tough and really tight, I really miss the two stroke thing. The 450 is heavy when you have to carry it:laugh:

The two strokes are really much lighter, and you really notice this when the engines are out of the frame. To my mind this is what makes the biggest difference to the riding experience that you pointed out at the start. I think it just comes down to personal preference and the type of riding you do. But I have not spent a lot of time on a modern two stroke, so maybe just the grass is always greener on the other side......

Would love to hear from somone who has ridden both the bikes you mention in tight stuff particularly. Or maybe I should meet you up at woodhill one weekend, and we swap bikes for a while? Or should we go for the wires:innocent:

[BoristheBiter]

Here we go boris
SXf motocross linkage, no side stand, 19inch rear, close ratio gear box, mx suspension
XCf mx linkage, side stand, larger fuel tank, mx exhaust, mx suspension, wide ratio gear box, no lights.
EXCf PDS no linkage, full lighting & can road reg, side stand, enduro spec suspension & exhaust
The XC models are an american model built up for there cross country races in the desert & prairies eg montana, texas, utah.
At last count KTM make 10 distinct 250cc models, some times it is to much choice.


SX-F - Motocross bike, 5 speed, 19in rear wheel, black standard tank, linkage rear
XC-F - Cross country bike, based on SX-F, 6 speed, 18in rear wheel, clear larger tank, linkage rear
EXC-F - Enduro bike, enduro spec engines, 6 speed, 18 in rear wheel, clear larger tank, no linkage/PDS rear.

Or something close to that anyway.


What these two esteemed gentlemen have already pointed out.

Thanks all, EXC-F it looks like it will be.
Now WT if you give me 10k for my bike i can buy one now:facepalm:So it looks like i have some saving to do.


EXC Stands for Excellent Choice XCF stands for Xtraordinary cute Fucker & sxf's are for silly X fukers who would rather fuk around with a kick start rather than push a button

Very good:laugh:

[ktm84mxc]

Boris there will always be trade ins & run out models for sale, a 2yr old ktm with service history & low hours eg100 will be 3-5g under the current model.
Best to talk to KTM dealer as they may have trade ins to clear or sellers wanting a quick cash up, dealers don't like there cash tied up on floor stock.

[BoristheBiter]

Boris there will always be trade ins & run out models for sale, a 2yr old ktm with service history & low hours eg100 will be 3-5g under the current model.
Best to talk to KTM dealer as they may have trade ins to clear or sellers wanting a quick cash up, dealers don't like there cash tied up on floor stock.

:laugh: i was only dreaming. our two road bikes we got on run out specials.

I hadn't thought of changing until next year anyway, But if someone gives me a good deal then i could be persuaded to buy early.:innocent:
And i normally only buy new.

[Crisis management]

Would love to hear from somone who has ridden both the bikes you mention in tight stuff particularly. Or maybe I should meet you up at woodhill one weekend, and we swap bikes for a while? Or should we go for the wires:innocent:

Hi Roger, thanks for the feedback, it was this sort of stuff I was looking for, I'm hoping the demo day next weekend will answer most of these questions, if I can punt the bikes thru the Convict or Criminal trails that wll answer almost all my questions.
I'm also a bit cautious of the weight of a 4 stroke but if I buy the 450 I can use it on Brittons adventure trail rides as well so there's more than one agenda here.

Catch up with you some time (hopefully not in the too far distant future).



Thanks to the other 450 comments guys, anyone got a 300 to 450 comparison?

[Taz]

Ian, If I hadn't originally got my 525 for adventure riding and road duties I would probably have gotten a 400exc. BTW my 525 has done over 10,000 kms so far with no issues.

[Ktmboy]

might have to come have a look as it is just round the corner. if i dont go fishing

Its just another day at the Sandpit and entry is as per normal. So you bring your own bike and ride all day and then demo a bike as the need arises.

The Half price admission is still being discussed and is only if you turn up to demo the bike without your own. Its really only to discourage tyre kickers that could also be ghost riders (them that could steal the bike). This does happen.

I'm a 300 owner and I'm sorry CRF119 but it does have the legs over a stock 450. 140km/h of legs in fact. On the last two man I was coming out of the fenceline corner and just overtaking 450's in the Expert class by the end of the 500m straight.
They definately are not just a trail bike and on the other hand they handle like the Queen Mary on an MX track. Bloody awful.

[That Guy]

http://www.dirtrider.com/reviews/dirt_bike/141_0504_ktm_middleclass_comparison/index.html

[CRF119]

I'm a 300 owner and I'm sorry CRF119 but it does have the legs over a stock 450. 140km/h of legs in fact. On the last two man I was coming out of the fenceline corner and just overtaking 450's in the Expert class by the end of the 500m straight.

KTMBOY i wasn't talking top speed i was talking about it lacks top end power. If i wanted i could gear my 450 to do well over 140kmh but from the box they are geared for MX tracks and the KTM is geared for the trail. It has been a long time since ive ridden a stock 450 tho.

[ktm84mxc]

Yep you are correct crf119 top speed is not so important unless you're doing the Finke race etc, how you get there is.
My old 84mxc wud do ova 140kph on standard gearing but 1st was to low for mx & 5th well over geared unless the straits a kilometre long. Great for hare scrambles etc.

[Stylo]

I'd go for the 300 2T for sure , seems the word 'powerband' has'nt been mentioned in this thread ....?

I think it's called the 'Fun Factor' , nothing beats the buzz you get when the wheel lifts when you're shifting through the gears ....even in 4th and 5th , omg

[EXCDirt]

Really all this thread says is buy the 300 2t.
You won't regret it.

450 you might like it but will always hear the 2 strokes and then you'll wonder.

I went up that wires track once. Sure glad it was on the 300. I may have had a tanty if I was on a heavy 450.

[Jay GTI]

One thing I have to say in the 300's favour, everyone I've spoken to who owns one has a slightly unhinged look in their eyes and a passion about their bike that other riders never quite have... so there must be something very, very good about them that those who haven't ridden one don't know about...

[Ktmboy]

KTMBOY i wasn't talking top speed i was talking about it lacks top end power. If i wanted i could gear my 450 to do well over 140kmh but from the box they are geared for MX tracks and the KTM is geared for the trail. It has been a long time since ive ridden a stock 450 tho.

We've had a few tests on straight line speed and there is only a bike length in them until the 300 winds up. KX and CRF 450's stock.

What I have been told is that the 2012 300's have been fiddled with again. The 250 2t is now the best of the field. Freakin confusing if you ask me.

[That Guy]

I've not ridden a 300 2t but have ridden a 250 exc 2t against my 350SXF. If I don't do any more motocross (based on recent injuries this might be the case); I'd go for a 2t. The 250EXC is an awesome bike, and far more torque than any mx 250 2t I have evre riden. I loved it -and when you are an hour into the ride, it starts to rain and your dealing with snotty ruts, tree roots, slippery clay cliff faces and bush clad valleys of doom (as you do) the weight advantage of the 2t really shines. Or if you are on a stroker the weight really sucks.....If the 300 is the same weight as teh 250EXC 2t, and even more torquey, I'd get that. It has the electric leg too which also is a life saver when in said valleys of doom.

[Crisis management]

Definate leanings towards the stroker eh?

The reasons I'm considering the 4 stroke are based upon a ride on a Husaberg 390 I had a year ago, very smooth power and easier to ride more quickly than my current 200. I always find the 200 a bit of a handfull when it hits the power band and althought I could soften that by tuning the power valve it needs all it's power so that seemed a bit counterproductive. The 4 stroke with it's flat torque curve has a lot of appeal as I'm not out to win any races but want to be able to ride smoothly for longer and the 390 seemed to give me that ability.
My concern with the 450 is that it will be a stump puller and I will end up being cautious of it's throttle as well.

Why so much "extra weight " warnings, the 4 strokes are 10 to 15 kgs heavier but is that enough to go from "light" to "heavy"? The ride I had on a 525 didn't give me that impression, it felt heavier in the front but given the 200 spends most of it's life with the front in the air, anything would feel like that.

Any answers?

[rogerh]

The 4st is only heavy when you have to carry it :laugh:
Riding it, it just feels more planted. Does not feel heavy to ride at all.

I would have to say, I suspect I am quite a bit faster on the 4st, but I too have seen the glint in the eye of the 300 riders. If you find the 200 a handful on the pipe, I would imagine the 300 is better because it does not need to be on the pipe. But I bet it gets exciting when it does light up.

In my experience the only way to answer these questions is to ride the bikes in question. Kinda like a demo day for second hand bikes.

[CRF119]

Why so much "extra weight " warnings, the 4 strokes are 10 to 15 kgs heavier but is that enough to go from "light" to "heavy"? The ride I had on a 525 didn't give me that impression, it felt heavier in the front but given the 200 spends most of it's life with the front in the air, anything would feel like that.

5KG differance to a 450R from a 300exc.

[Rupe]

Any answers?

Yep, sounds like you need to ride a few bikes. Looking at figures and opinions on the net is bullshit, you need to go and ride a load of bikes to narrow down to what works for you. wmcc next weekend try to scap a couple of rides.

Also the glint in peoples eyes tends to be that everyone is in love with there own bike. If you had a kdx and went to a modern enduro 2t you be in love no matter what it was, if that makes sense.

[gwynfryn]

Yep, sounds like you need to ride a few bikes. Looking at figures and opinions on the net is bullshit, you need to go and ride a load of bikes to narrow down to what works for you. wmcc next weekend try to scap a couple of rides.

Also the glint in peoples eyes tends to be that everyone is in love with there own bike. If you had a kdx and went to a modern enduro 2t you be in love no matter what it was, if that makes sense.

Thats just not true. I've riddden modern orange bikes but I only have eyes for my kdx.

[Rupe]

Thats just not true. I've riddden modern orange bikes but I only have eyes for my kdx.

Love is blind

[Buddy L]

I know you didn't ask but

Don't rule out a 250 4stroke, KTM or any other brand.

The toqure spread is smooth on these machines, more so on the exc,wr,txc etc models, all electric starts. An the weight is only a few kg's more then your current stead.

just an idea

[rogerh]

This (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715895) has some interesting opinions as well.

But yep, you gotta ride them and see which you like. Each to their own. Love is blind. Etc, etc.

[Crisis management]

Don't rule out a 250 4stroke, KTM or any other brand.


I had ruled them out as I thought power would be down and maintenance up but your the second person to mention them so I will try and get a ride on one as well.
I'm a bit dubious tho, the 390 Husaberg I rode felt like it just had enough power (felt very comfortable at all throttle positions) and I'm not sure a 250 is going to be able to match that output.

[Jay GTI]

Also the glint in peoples eyes tends to be that everyone is in love with there own bike. If you had a kdx and went to a modern enduro 2t you be in love no matter what it was, if that makes sense.

Nah the 'glint' in 300 owners eyes is different. Mention my bike and I'll gladly talk your ear off and tell you about how it really is the perfect bike (for me anyway), but talk to a 300 owner and that glint has a spark of madness to it, like the bike taps into some deep-hidden lunacy that most people have inside them but don't go near for fear what it may release...



I had ruled them out as I thought power would be down and maintenance up but your the second person to mention them so I will try and get a ride on one as well.
I'm a bit dubious tho, the 390 Husaberg I rode felt like it just had enough power (felt very comfortable at all throttle positions) and I'm not sure a 250 is going to be able to match that output.

One of my regular riding buddies has a 2010 250EXC-F and even though he admits to being an average rider at best, he finds it frustrating at times, as it always needs to be kept on the boil to go anywhere. Climbing up some of the steeper parts of the Superbowl out at the Sandpit, he has to be in the right gear and reving it hard, otherwise it bogs down. I've also spent plenty of time on a couple of WR250Fs and they are great bikes, but again they need a fair handful of throttle to keep up the pace, effortless torque is not something these bikes have.

[BoristheBiter]

One of my regular riding buddies has a 2010 250EXC-F and even though he admits to being an average rider at best, he finds it frustrating at times, as it always needs to be kept on the boil to go anywhere. Climbing up some of the steeper parts of the Superbowl out at the Sandpit, he has to be in the right gear and reving it hard, otherwise it bogs down. I've also spent plenty of time on a couple of WR250Fs and they are great bikes, but again they need a fair handful of throttle to keep up the pace, effortless torque is not something these bikes have.

I know what you are meaning. I ride a XR250 and if you are not on your game you will lose it in some of the steeper sections. In saying that I have not come across any part of Woodhill where i have needed any more torque. It might help to go faster but it hasn't stopped it. If i have had problems it has been down to my riding and not the deficiency of my bike.

I would be disappointed if the 250EXC-F is not as good as a 11 year old XR as this was one of the 2 I am looking at getting.

[White trash]

Don't rule out a 250 4stroke, KTM or any other brand.

The toqure spread is smooth on these machines, more so on the exc,wr,txc etc models, all electric starts. An the weight is only a few kg's more then your current stead.

just an idea

Excellent advice. I spent a few more hours out on the 250 XC-F yesterday riding the snottiest, most horrible tracks we could find in Totara Park. The only thing that held the bike back was my severe lack of fitness towards the end of the day. If I had of been on anything bigger, I woulda been fucked earlier.

[Crisis management]

Climbing up some of the steeper parts of the Superbowl out at the Sandpit, he has to be in the right gear and reving it hard, otherwise it bogs down.

That's my fear of little 4 stroke engines, the 200 will tear over all parts of Woodhill and I'm not going to a 4 stroke for less than that ability, I will try one out if I get the chance, looks like a busy day next saturday!

[Jay GTI]

I would be disappointed if the 250EXC-F is not as good as a 11 year old XR as this was one of the 2 I am looking at getting.

I doubt you'll be disappointed, the suspension and handling will be light-years ahead and the engine is great as long as you're ontop of it, it's just that as my riding buddy finds, it doesn't allow lazy riding. On a 300 or 450 (or even my 350 for that matter), gear selection isn't critical and if you want to climb the hills faster, just give it more throttle. It's definitely not a case of his bike not being able to climbing the same hills, just he has to make the effort to do so, hit them at speed, in the right gear etc, whereas I can start at the bottom, pull away in 2nd and tractor on up.

[BoristheBiter]

I doubt you'll be disappointed, the suspension and handling will be light-years ahead and the engine is great as long as you're ontop of it, it's just that as my riding buddy finds, it doesn't allow lazy riding. On a 300 or 450 (or even my 350 for that matter), gear selection isn't critical and if you want to climb the hills faster, just give it more throttle. It's definitely not a case of his bike not being able to climbing the same hills, just he has to make the effort to do so, hit them at speed, in the right gear etc, whereas I can start at the bottom, pull away in 2nd and tractor on up.

That sounds very disappointing. I am a lazy rider when i get tired but i have none of those problems with my XR now. Take the new part of the big dipper, got stuck on a tree root half way up, pulled it free then rode it all the way to the top.

I would like to hear from other riders of the 250EXC-F to see if this is what they have found.

[Jay GTI]

Having thought about it, I'm probably being a little unfair to the 250, but my riding buddy and I sat at the entrance of the Superbowl and discussed this very thing last time he was there. He was blown away by how easily I could accelerate up the steep sections, even from low revs and low speed. He was moaning that if he wasn't hitting the bottom of the climb right, it was a lot of effort to get up to the top, where I could just wind on the power and fly up, even if I completely screwed it up at the bottom first.

If he did hit it right, he was getting up absolutely no problem, just he didn't have the luxury of being able to just use more throttle to make up for being in a gear too high or not having the initial momentum to carry him up.

[BoristheBiter]

Having thought about it, I'm probably being a little unfair to the 250, but my riding buddy and I sat at the entrance of the Superbowl and discussed this very thing last time he was there. He was blown away by how easily I could accelerate up the steep sections, even from low revs and low speed. He was moaning that if he wasn't hitting the bottom of the climb right, it was a lot of effort to get up to the top, where I could just wind on the power and fly up, even if I completely screwed it up at the bottom first.

If he did hit it right, he was getting up absolutely no problem, just he didn't have the luxury of being able to just use more throttle to make up for being in a gear too high or not having the initial momentum to carry him up.

After reading that yes i think you are. What you have said makes a lot more sense now.
Having to change gear does not make a bike crap.

[Jay GTI]

Having to change gear does not make a bike crap.

Exactly, it's not a crap bike at all, it just needs to be kept on top of to make decent progress when things get challenging. Should also point out that having that extra torque isn't always a good thing, I've picked up some pretty bad habits from riding bikes with way more power than I've known what to do with, I definitely regret not having done my riding apprenticeship on a 125 2T...

[Crisis management]

Having to change gear does not make a bike crap.

To echo Jay's comments, I have nothing against a 250 4 stroke, it just is not what I want at this stage of my riding "career", I'm getting lazy and don't want to have to throw 100% at the bike to punt it around the woods, lazy torque sounds good to me!
If nothing else this type of discussion illustrates the varied needs / desires of different riders and the solutions offered by the different types of bikes, it's a matter of interpreting the comments and seeing how well they fit with your riding style.

[BoristheBiter]

To echo Jay's comments, I have nothing against a 250 4 stroke, it just is not what I want at this stage of my riding "career", I'm getting lazy and don't want to have to throw 100% at the bike to punt it around the woods, lazy torque sounds good to me!
If nothing else this type of discussion illustrates the varied needs / desires of different riders and the solutions offered by the different types of bikes, it's a matter of interpreting the comments and seeing how well they fit with your riding style.

That is what i am trying to say.
On my XR250 i don't need to throw it around. I can sit down and have a nice easy putter around Woodhill whether that be the nice flat yellow trails, the tight blues or the OMFG steep/deep sand reds, Or i can go flat out.
If you need to do this on the 250EXC-F then it looks like it will be the 350 for me.

I was just meaning it seems strange that a 11 year old bike is easier to ride than a new one but then as i have only ridden XR's off road i don't know what other are like to ride.

I just wish that all these demo days where on a Sunday as I work most Saturdays so i can see what it is like on other bikes.

[Jay GTI]

I was just meaning it seems strange that a 11 year old bike is easier to ride than a new one but then as i have only ridden XR's off road i don't know what other are like to ride.



You have to remember that the XR makes somewhere in the region of 25-27hp, whereas the EXC-F is probably making another 10hp more. To get that extra power from the same engine capacity, you need revs, usually at the cost of low-down power, due to the aggressive cams, DOHC head etc. Which is why it needs to be kept on the boil much more than the XR. An XR won't have a hope in hades of keeping up with a well ridden EXC-F, but will potter about all day with much less affort.

[BoristheBiter]

, but will potter about all day with much less affort.

Thats me.:laugh:
Just look at my 2-man times.

[Stylo]

Thats me.:laugh:
Just look at my 2-man times.

Yaaawn ......

[browny]

go the 450,plenty of power when you need it and when you don't,just ease back on the throttle, its as easy as that.the ning nings need to be ridden harder or have a good supply of spark plugs if you do decide to putt around.they are a bit heavier but you hardly notice it when you're boosting past 300's:spanking:,just don't get it bogged cos then you notice it.

[Crabby]

A lot of people discount the newer 4 stroke 250's... I did until I had a ride last weekend. After owning 2 strokes most of my life ranging from 80cc - 465cc I did not think a 4 stroke 250 would satisfy my needs until I had a ride of a mates '09 CRF250X last weekend. What I can say is there is a fairly broad torque spread and it definitely gets along better than the KDX's I have owned and is way less effort to ride than a 2 stroke 250 or 4 stroke 450! I am extremely unfit and overweight at the moment (bout 20kgs over doh) and hadn't ridden a dirt bike for about 3.5 years and it was a breeze to ride and still does standup 3rd gear wheelies, the next day I didn't feel like the bike had been riding me.I was very close to buying a 4 stroke 250, but I got offered a 07 450 EXC at a price I couldn't refuse so its getting delivered on sunday. EDIT - 450 didn't go ahead, went and bought a KXF250 instead and I love it.

[That Guy]

There is a good reason why the 2t riders have a silly slightly unhinged grin. They're having more fun!

[BoristheBiter]

Why, if 2t's are suppose to be better, are they giving them more lower rev power?
Why not just get a 4T?