It's happend again

[Bartman10]

Warning: Rant. This is the THRID time it's happend. A chap in Nelson privatetly advertised a bike that I'm interested in. It turns out hes also put it in a shop for sale. I made an offer through his private ad last night and this morning he accepted the deal. Now it turns out the shop want the commission anyway (understanable), but the guy wants me to pay another $500 over and above the offer that he has already accepted, so that the shop can take their cut. There are several issues here

1./ People should either sell their bike privately OR thorugh a dealer. NOT both. Of course the dealer will be more expensive so of course the consumer is going to go down the private route. This casues major arguments with the dealer and the seller. Meanwhile the buyer is stuck in the middle. And $500 bucks is tyre and rego.

2./ Once an offer has been accepted the seller should go ahead with that deal. It's not my problem that the shop and the owner have a contract. He's said yes to the deal. He should have considered that before accepting.

Sorry about the rant, but I hope you can understand why I'm pissed off :mad: . I thought I was going to get another bike next weekend but now I'm stuck in the middle of an argument about who should pay $500 to the shop keeper. All I can say is: it ain't gonna be me. A deal is a deal.

[Sparky Bills]

An understandable rant mate.

Shit you must be getting withdrawl symptoms now, how long has it been since youve been on a bike??

[_Gina_]

I am no paralegal......but I would say you have a verbal contract with him to purchase his bike for the verbally agreed amount, he can come back and try to negotiate with you, but at the end of the day the bike is yours for the price you both agreed on.

[Bartman10]

An understandable rant mate.

Shit you must be getting withdrawl symptoms now, how long has it been since youve been on a bike??


Yeah getting withdrawls something bad. I haven't even been into a bike shop for a few weeks. Ahhhhrrrhahha. Going to Manfeild for the KR track day on Janes ZXR250 next weekend though. Not exactly a gixxer 750, but better than nothing. I've got those braded lines to give back to you too.

Cheers man,

[zadok]

2./ Once an offer has been accepted the seller should go ahead with that deal. It's not my problem that the shop and the owner have a contract. He's said yes to the deal. He should have considered that before accepting.

Sorry about the rant, but I hope you can understand why I'm pissed off :mad: . I thought I was going to get another bike next weekend but now I'm stuck in the middle of an argument about who should pay $500 to the shop keeper. All I can say is: it ain't gonna be me. A deal is a deal.

Completely agree. :yes:

[Sparky Bills]

Yeah getting withdrawls something bad. I haven't even been into a bike shop for a few weeks. Ahhhhrrrhahha. Going to Manfeild for the KR track day on Janes ZXR250 next weekend though. Not exactly a gixxer 750, but better than nothing. I've got those braded lines to give back to you too.

Cheers man,


Hey, you will still have a ball on that bike on the track.
250's are great fun round the corners. Tyres so thin- can be flicked around real easy.
Did those lines not fit?

[unhingedlizard]

Couldnt agree more

[FEINT]

I can understand your frustration. You shouldn't be required to pay the extra $500 if you both have already agreed on the sum for the bike.

I had one case where the price was agreed on and pick up was a Saturday, the ****wit sold it to somebody else on the Friday for more money. Some of these sellers need a lesson or two.

[Jonty]

My advice is do not pay him the extra. he made a private offer of $x and you accepted the contract on $x. If he wants to privately advertise a bike that is for sale at a dealer all well and good but this need to be disclosed and it shoudl be advertised for the correct price. Tell him you will pay what he advertised or there is no deal. Unless off course you want to pay the extra $500 for protection under the consumer guarantees act (buying from a dealer) although this is arguable.

[Beemer]

That is his problem, not yours! If he says you can have the bike for this amount and then discovers the dealer wants a cut too, then it's up to him to negotiate with the dealer, and he shouldn't expect you to pay the $500.

I would have preferred to sell my bike through a dealer but they wanted $1500 to $2000 to sell it on my behalf and even more if they had to take a trade-in! So it's being sold privately, and if someone offers me a good price for it and I accept, that's a deal - unless the buyer doesn't come up with the money within a set timeframe. If I sell it for one price and then someone offers me more money before the buyer has picked it up - well, that's going to hurt but a deal's a deal.

That's like him saying "yes, you can have the bike for $???" and then trying to charge you extra when you collect it because "that price didn't include the tyres, or the wheels, or the engine!" Yeah right!

[Lou Girardin]

I find it strange that the dealer wants $500.00, did they have a sole agency? Did they spend money on the bike? What gives?
Bottom line is don't pay the $500 unless you absolutely must have THAT bike.

[Badcat]

if you pay the $500 you prove to him that screwing with a contract is ok.
i'd love to find out his trademe trading name.

[bear]

Bloody rude arse!
Seller should be the $500 out of pocket obviously for trying both methods at same time. Stick it to him.

[vifferman]

The arrangement he had with the dealer should not be your concern - that's between him and the dealer. You're not buying it from the dealer, otherwise you would've talked to them, not him, so your contract is with him alone.

[kerryg]

A deal is a deal.

It's a pretty awkward situation from your account of it, and some information is missing which makes it a bit harder to grasp the whole situation, but from what you've said this is how I'd view it:

1. If you had no dealings with the shop at all regarding the bike (e.g. inspecting it, riding it)and dealt only with owner of the bike privately, the issue of paying anything to the shop is the bike's owner's problem, pure and simple. I would have thought the shop has no right to claim anything from the owner in that instance anyway, but I guess it will come down to the fine print of the written contract/sale authority (if any) between the owner and the shop.
2.If you saw the bike at the shop first and the shop staff spent time and effort selling the bike to you, and you then by-passed the shop and made a private deal with the owner, the bike shop is probably at least morally, and possibly legally (again, depending on the terms they agreed with the owner to "OB" it) entitled to seek some fee from the owner. BUT NOT FROM YOU (they have no contractual relationship with you).
3. If you reached an agreement with the owner to buy the bike for $xxx, if (???) he's a decent guy he should keep his end of that agreement. A deal is a deal. That he subsequently gets stung by the dealer is not your problem except to this extent: if the owner will not honour the original deal and will only sell you the bike at $xxx + $500 you have bugger all chance of coming out on the winning end unless you had the original deal with him set out in writing and in a form that will stand up to legal scrutiny, and you are prepared to go down the path of getting a legal resolution (it means disputes tribunal or lawyers, time, effort, aggravation etc etc). Rather you than me.

Best to seek resolution by talking to the guy, setting out the case as you see it and appealing to his sense of decency if he has any. Failing that I'd walk away (there are other bikes).


World is full of arseholes, I've found.....

[pritch]

That is his problem, not yours!

Absolutely!

[Bartman10]

It's a pretty awkward situation from your account of it, and some information is missing which makes it a bit harder to grasp the whole situation, but from what you've said this is how I'd view it:

1. If you had no dealings with the shop at all regarding the bike (e.g. inspecting it, riding it)and dealt only with owner of the bike privately, the issue of paying anything to the shop is the bike's owner's problem, pure and simple. I would have thought the shop has no right to claim anything from the owner in that instance anyway, but I guess it will come down to the fine print of the written contract/sale authority (if any) between the owner and the shop.
2.If you saw the bike at the shop first and the shop staff spent time and effort selling the bike to you, and you then by-passed the shop and made a private deal with the owner, the bike shop is probably at least morally, and possibly legally (again, depending on the terms they agreed with the owner to "OB" it) entitled to seek some fee from the owner. BUT NOT FROM YOU (they have no contractual relationship with you).
3. If you reached an agreement with the owner to buy the bike for $xxx, if (???) he's a decent guy he should keep his end of that agreement. A deal is a deal. That he subsequently gets stung by the dealer is not your problem except to this extent: if the owner will not honour the original deal and will only sell you the bike at $xxx + $500 you have bugger all chance of coming out on the winning end unless you had the original deal with him set out in writing and in a form that will stand up to legal scrutiny, and you are prepared to go down the path of getting a legal resolution (it means disputes tribunal or lawyers, time, effort, aggravation etc etc). Rather you than me.

Best to seek resolution by talking to the guy, setting out the case as you see it and appealing to his sense of decency if he has any. Failing that I'd walk away (there are other bikes).


World is full of arseholes, I've found.....


I've had nothing to do with the shop. I only found out about the shop thing after I made the offer and he accepted it. I replyed to his private ad. The shop has not been involved in the negotiation or any other part of the deal. The shop has not improved or otherwise spent money on the bike to make it more valuble. The shop is not offering finance or a warranty. In fact the bike is still under factory warranty. I am paying in cash.

I'm not going down any legal route. It's a late model popular japanese bike. There are thousands others like it. If I don't get this one another will come along at some point in the future, although this is a particularly tidy example.
I offered what I thought was a fair amount for this bike on the private market, and by accepting my offer he obviously agreed with that sentiment.

My rant is that people should think about the consequences of making a deal before accepting, but on accepting they should have the integrity to continue with the deal even if it's going to cost them a few more dollars. My other rant is that if you want to sell a bike you should EITHER sell it though a dealer OR sell it privately. You can't do both.

[kerryg]

My rant is that people should think about the consequences of making a deal before accepting, but on accepting they should have the integrity to continue with the deal even if it's going to cost them a few more dollars. My other rant is that if you want to sell a bike you should EITHER sell it though a dealer OR sell it privately. You can't do both.


Entirely, emphatically agree with you regarding honouring the deal. Based on what you've said the guy who is just trying to stiff you for $500 more than was agreed when it'sa his problem, not yours. Tell him to stick it where the sun doesn't shine!

But you can safely offer for sale privately and OB it through a dealer at the same time if you're up-front with the dealer and they are comfortable with it (it means the owner gets the bike shop's agreement to it, and phones the shop when a private buyer is coming to view and tells the private buyer to inform the shop he is viewing it privately). It's a matter of being fair. It happens from time to time, especially if the shop has had it for a while and there's been no action. You wouldn't do it if the shop had a problem with it though, or if they'd only had it for 5 minutes, etc which sounds like your case.

[ManDownUnder]

I find it strange that the dealer wants $500.00, did they have a sole agency? Did they spend money on the bike? What gives?
Bottom line is don't pay the $500 unless you absolutely must have THAT bike.

Agreed - and beyond what Lou said... the shop clearly did NOT have sole agency as the guy was selling it directly.

Real easy guide to a contract (verbal, written, whatever).

1) Offer - you make an offer of money, they make an offer of goods. You did this - tick in the box
2) Acceptance, you both say yes to the offer of the other. Again - done
3) Exchange of consideration. You pay the dosh, they hand over the bike.

IF the bike shop has sole agency on selling it, then the contract is void - the guy wasn't entitled to sell it... he'd have given away that right.

If he IS entitled to sell it, the entitlement of the bike shop to be paid was decided (orally or in writing) between the guy offering it, and the bike shop... and forms another contract. You actually have NOTHING to do with it, are not party to it, and without your agreement, don't have to be.

I'd tell him - he stuffed up, hand him a cheque, and tell him he's not allowed to bank it till you have the keys (put it in writing). It's a done deal and he's in breach of contract if he changes his mind or the terms of the deal.

Not sure how this stands from the legal eagles point of view... but I understand it's right. ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE???

MDU

[Wolf]

ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE???
You expect them to admit it in a public forum? :devil2:

Sounds horrible, Bartman10. Hope it all gets sorted out to your satisfaction. Stick with the sage advice of others and refuse to part with any more than the originally agreed price. Part with nothing until you have the bike, keys and signed change of ownership papers and let him sort out with the bike shop.

[ManDownUnder]

You expect them to admit it in a public forum? :devil2:

Sounds horrible, Bartman10. Hope it all gets sorted out to your satisfaction. Stick with the sage advice of others and refuse to part with any more than the originally agreed price. Part with nothing until you have the bike, keys and signed change of ownership papers and let him sort out with the bike shop.

Or take it up with consumer institute... there must be guidance out there for this sort of crap!

[kerryg]

It's a done deal and he's in breach of contract if he changes his mind or the terms of the deal.

MDU


MDU: Yes, I agree, true and correct in principle ....but then you have to be prepared for him to say "well, too bad...sue me" and then be able to prove the existence of a valid contract and then be willing to go through a disputes process or otherwise litigate. And then have him settle on the steps of the Court. And all for $500. It's not necessary to be a lawyer to figure that one out. In civil matters you mostly only get the justice you can afford in terms of effort/time/stess/money invested. And usually the arsehole wins in the end anyway 'cos he's a bigger prick and/or richer than you are (BTW I don't mean you, MDU..the prick part I mean...not the rich part...oh, forget it!). Oh, sooooo many examples spring to mind.....but we won't go there, it'll just upset me....

[kerryg]

You expect them to admit it in a public forum? :devil2:




Heard that they started using lawyers instead of rats in their experiments at the medical school because lawyers are more plentiful than rats and will do stuff that the rats won't do..... :yes:

[Wolf]

Heard that they started using lawyers instead of rats in their experiments at the medical school because lawyers are more plentiful than rats and will do stuff that the rats won't do..... :yes:
Students less likely to be come emotionally attached to the lawyers, too...

[Bartman10]

We'll folks this thread is a wrap. After some careful telephone negotiation the guy has come clean and admited that a deal is a deal. I think this spleen venting rant on KB helped me calm down a bit before I rang him to explain what I thought of him

Thanks, and have a good weekend! :Punk: :Punk: :yes:

I'll finally be on a bike again. :love: :love:

[Drunken Monkey]

... ANY LAWYERS OUT THERE???

Plenty of self-proclaimed arm-chair lawyers here though. Funny how so many people know _their_ interpretation of the legal system is correct, yet we see so many differing, mutually exclusive, opinions.
Sorry, the amount of rubbish I see posted in the road law threads makes me puke...Rant over.
(Not directed at you in any way MDU, just something your comment sparked inside me!)

PS - Nice you got a result you were happy with Bartman.

PPS - 750Y's RoXoRz.

[Beemer]

It's a late model popular japanese bike. There are thousands others like it. If I don't get this one another will come along at some point in the future, although this is a particularly tidy example.
I offered what I thought was a fair amount for this bike on the private market, and by accepting my offer he obviously agreed with that sentiment.

I'd be pointing out to him that I was paying CASH and that he verbally agreed to the price and was thereby bound to honour the deal. I'd also point out that his bike is not a one-off, that you can find another. Say that you would be sorry to miss out on his one, but you cannot come up with the extra $500. See what he says, he may be prepared to accept this - but if he doesn't, you are either going to have to come up with the $500, walk away from the bike, or threaten him with legal action.

[Sparky Bills]

Quote", We'll folks this thread is a wrap. After some careful telephone negotiation the guy has come clean and admited that a deal is a deal. I think this spleen venting rant on KB helped me calm down a bit before I rang him to explain what I thought of him

Thanks, and have a good weekend!

I'll finally be on a bike again.",





Good stuff!
See ya on the road soon!

[kerryg]

Plenty of self-proclaimed arm-chair lawyers here though. Funny how so many people know _their_ interpretation of the legal system is correct, yet we see so many differing, mutually exclusive, opinions.
Sorry, the amount of rubbish I see posted in the road law threads makes me puke...Rant over.
.


Hey Drunken Monkey. I'll assume that your "self-proclaimed armchair-lawyers" comment includes me. I don't claim to be a lawyer. Nor did any else. Where's the self-proclamation here? And I think if you had sufficient attention span to read the opinions offered in this thread you would have seen that everyone was pretty much in consensus. I didn't notice the "many differing, mutually exclusive opinions" you did. I guess what "makes me puke" is the kind of mealy-mouthed gutless carping of turds like you, who hide behind a keyboard and anonymously broadcast insults at people. Get a life

[ManDownUnder]

MDU: Yes, I agree, true and correct in principle ....but then you have to be prepared for him to say "well, too bad...sue me" and then be able to prove the existence of a valid contract and then be willing to go through a disputes process or otherwise litigate. And then have him settle on the steps of the Court. And all for $500. It's not necessary to be a lawyer to figure that one out. In civil matters you mostly only get the justice you can afford in terms of effort/time/stess/money invested. And usually the arsehole wins in the end anyway 'cos he's a bigger prick and/or richer than you are (BTW I don't mean you, MDU..the prick part I mean...not the rich part...oh, forget it!). Oh, sooooo many examples spring to mind.....but we won't go there, it'll just upset me....

lemme see - how do I respond to that..

ummm yes yes and ... yes!

[ManDownUnder]

Plenty of self-proclaimed arm-chair lawyers here though. Funny how so many people know _their_ interpretation of the legal system is correct, yet we see so many differing, mutually exclusive, opinions.
Sorry, the amount of rubbish I see posted in the road law threads makes me puke...Rant over.
(Not directed at you in any way MDU, just something your comment sparked inside me!)

PS - Nice you got a result you were happy with Bartman.

PPS - 750Y's RoXoRz.

Dude if you're like me I think that spark comes from the lack of absolute law... and the plethora (not a bad word for beertime) of opinions...

Go to any lawyer and ask what the law is in this regard... you'll get a bill for $200/hour+ and an "opinion".

... nifty... but then the unfortunate fact is that you need those "opinions" prior to doing anything beacause they the most informed... most likely to be right (no guarantee of any sort of course)

No aggro taken from your post either...
MDU:drinkup:

[ManDownUnder]

Quote", We'll folks this thread is a wrap. After some careful telephone negotiation the guy has come clean and admited that a deal is a deal. I think this spleen venting rant on KB helped me calm down a bit before I rang him to explain what I thought of him

Thanks, and have a good weekend!

I'll finally be on a bike again.",





Good stuff!
See ya on the road soon!



YES! :Punk:

[White trash]

Bartman, you're a cheap prick. If I know you, you'd beat the guy severly to get to the price anyway. Then he goes home, sulking about it, sez to his missus what the price was, she's gone off her head and he's had to try and save face, bleeding from the anus the whole time.

Glad you got a bike though, mate.

It's not another of those gutless seven fiddys is it?

[DingDong]

Offer and acceptance?... yes
changing the terms of acceptance?... not allowed
Proof of acceptance?... not really unless you have a email/fax or a third party was a witness.
Getting the new bike? :no: unless you have a witness or pay $500

You'll have very hard time disputing the deal legally and it'll cost you more than $500
So... if you want the bike offer the guy $250, its your choice. :yes:

[Bartman10]

Bartman, you're a cheap prick. If I know you, you'd beat the guy severly to get to the price anyway. Then he goes home, sulking about it, sez to his missus what the price was, she's gone off her head and he's had to try and save face, bleeding from the anus the whole time.

Glad you got a bike though, mate.


Me? Cheap? Surely you don't mean that! :rofl:




It's not another of those gutless seven fiddys is it?

Yep :yes: A blue K3, 10,000 ks 1 owner.

[Beemer]

We'll folks this thread is a wrap. After some careful telephone negotiation the guy has come clean and admited that a deal is a deal. I think this spleen venting rant on KB helped me calm down a bit before I rang him to explain what I thought of him

Thanks, and have a good weekend! :Punk: :Punk: :yes:

I'll finally be on a bike again. :love: :love:

Excellent result, and proof that calmly (after ranting to us and getting some advice!) stating your case can sometimes be all it takes to get the other person to reconsider. Very pleased it worked in your case, $500 is a lot of pingers to be down...

[marty]

good to see it worked out. a little while ago i bought a $25000 item as part of an on-line advertise/purchase arrangement. spoke to the (private) vendor, and deposited a substantial deposit, pending the items arrival by transporter (from the south island) in about 7 days.

3 days later, i received an e-mail saying that the item would not be delivered, as it had been sold by the shop that it had been displayed at. now i knew that it was at the shop, but had no dealings at all with the shop, and it was my understanding that the shop owner had been advised that the item had been sold to me.

understandibly i was concerned for the safety of my $$$deposit.

after some pretty significant negotiations however, my deposit was transferred to the shop, and an almost identical item delivered to me, the original vendor paying the difference, and the transport fees.

i know that the shop was under no obligation to negotiate this outcome, but at the end of the day, as i made it quite clear, they were making 2 substantial sales in a week, when the original item could have been removed from their floor without any money coming their way, and then the second item may not have sold either. i think it 'cost' (by way of effecively reducing the sale price), the private vendor about $1000. it still cost me the same.

all in all, a good outcome for me.

[Beemer]

Hey Marty, next time I need to buy something, I'll give you a call! You have much better luck than most people I know who end up in similar situations!