Freedom of speech website NZ version?

[Spyke]

Freedom of speech website NZ version???
Hey guys, since we can't do much for america, we could start with our country that is far away at the bottom of the world.

Freedom of speech NZ

Lets make a website that all enrolled nzers can use to vote on political decisions big and small. A polling site with a difference in that basically all of nz could have their say on the matters that effect us!
Login in with your electoral number and password to a protected site where you can have your say on time on each bill,law, everything that comes up in the running of nz?

A forum to raise ideas that can be heard by the people that count?
Moderators to stop bad grammer lol.


I'm no website designer but i think this could change the way the world works, we the people of nz could have our say from the comfort of our key boards. now is the time of the key board warrior to stand up and be counted on!!!

I love NZ and don't want us to be run by the big companies but by all of us, lets make a change. Our generation needs all the more experienced to help, as you guys know the history behind all this, have had true protests and all the good living so we can learn a thing or two!

Peace, may as well say legalise pot to take the bottom of the drug market out aswell

Any ideas of bringing New Zealand forward to a place we can all enjoy better are welcomed.

[ellipsis]

....serious que....do you have the time to run such a site...?...

[nathanwhite]

So the end idea is that the entire population votes on laws instead of the politicians?
Could work, have to get decent servers to handle the load of 4 million users.

Only problem is sorting all the comments and statements that people leave. Voting is easy enough, and the general idea could be felt, but I get the feeling that it would be like trying to police 4chan.

[imdying]

Lets make a website that all enrolled nzers can use to vote on political decisions big and small. A polling site with a difference in that basically all of nz could have their say on the matters that effect us!
Login in with your electoral number and password to a protected site where you can have your say on time on each bill,law, everything that comes up in the running of nz?Sure. You build it. I'll hack it. Every time a coconut. For fun. In my sleep. Because I can.

Top idea, but never going to fly :(

As an alternative, how about an mini electoral office (booth in malls etc, etc) that has half a dozen PCs where you can effectively do the same thing (but not exposed on the internet). You could go there for all your electoral services (change of address, change of roll, voting, referendums, etc). Of course, you could hack that too given enough thought....

[Scuba_Steve]

Sure. You build it. I'll hack it. Every time a coconut. For fun. In my sleep. Because I can.

Top idea, but never going to fly :(


the only reason it wouldn't fly is because the dictators would lose all their power & backhanders, as for hacking it I don't think it'd be as easy as one might think

[imdying]

as for hacking it I don't think it'd be as easy as one might thinkThey would have to have some pretty magical pixies protecting it then :laugh:

Hackers from around the world would fucking plunder that beyatch for all it was worth :D

[nathanwhite]

Of course. the govt wouldn't want to lose their power, so why would they bring in a system that does exactly that? For it to be official, the Govt would have to bring it in.

You could build and launch the website yourself, (or get it done) but it would never take off without a)a massive advertising campaign. b)some sort of official stamp on the paperwork. People would just think that someone was trying to get their details.

[Spyke]

I have the time to run the site (probably not qualified to though), but was thinking more along the lines of the government should be running such a task as they effectively work for us and this is an idea for them to get a lot more votes on different subjects.

Fibre optics have been layed down the country, i'm sure a server that can handle really high flow wouldn't be to hard. could make the current govt websites more user frindly.


How do banks get around hacking online accounts?
why would you hack something that gives you the right to vote on polls that can help the future of the country? ok thats naive, is there a way around this?

[Scuba_Steve]

They would have to have some pretty magical pixies protecting it then :laugh:

Hackers from around the world would fucking plunder that beyatch for all it was worth :D

Why would people from other countries be interested in hacking it???
I'm not saying it'd be any harder than the militaries system to hack, but if the system detected 2 or more votes from the same person it would red flag it etc
at best I could only see hacks as a delay to the system so I wouldn't really get why people would bother? there wouldn't be any useful info there no credit card details or valuable info


Of course. the govt wouldn't want to lose their power, so why would they bring in a system that does exactly that? For it to be official, the Govt would have to bring it in.

You could build and launch the website yourself, (or get it done) but it would never take off without a)a massive advertising campaign. b)some sort of official stamp on the paperwork. People would just think that someone was trying to get their details.

If it helps I was thinking of starting a political party based round this idea tho, if I ever get my A into G as they say I will do just that too

[Spyke]

Of course. the govt wouldn't want to lose their power.


This is where a idea like this can gain traction, if they just turn down a idea to give everyone an easy way to vote this could be seen as stopping the rights of nzers as its your right to be heard and vote on matters that concern us?

they work for us and thats why they are there, this would make their job easier would it not?

[imdying]

Why would people from other countries be interested in hacking it???Heh, because it's there. An extension of an electoral system to mess with, how could you resist?

[Spyke]

If it helps I was thinking of starting a political party based round this idea tho, if I ever get my A into G as they say I will do just that too

i hope you really do, would love to see a party i could vote for and possibly help

[davereid]

Democracy is just mob rule.

Lowest common denominator gets to decide ?

Yeah right.

If you want a voice get involved in the select committee process, make submissions etc.

Otherwise, the idiots will just vote for the pretty option.

[Big Dave]

A lot of folks don't use the internet.

[pzkpfw]

... Otherwise, the idiots will just vote for the pretty option.

Totally.

e.g. How many people would "vote" for a tax increase?

What if it was to pay for a good cause, like "X". Would only people who care about "X" vote for the tax increase?

In general, people are mostly motivated by self-interest. (No different to most politicians.) And geez, people are stupid.

So I actually think the current system where we get to vote for the party we like, then that party just gets on with (more or less) doing its job for a few years, works better than an "everybody gets to vote on everything" system would.

[Scuba_Steve]

So I actually think the current system where we get to vote against the party we like the least, then that party just gets on with (more or less) fucking up the country for a few years.

made that slightly more accurate for you :D

But my question is why shouldn't a country be able to rule itself??? Sure we may fuck it up but hey thats nothing that isn't happening now anyways & at-least it'd be the people fucking up their own country not some dictatorship doing it for you getting your money & backhanders while doing so. I actually do think the people would do better at ruling the country then these dictatorship parties I also think Govt's know they would too & will do anything to stop it

[Winston001]

Yes, it's a good idea and I have long thought the government should establish such a forum.



Non-binding vote
Careful neutral wording of the questions being voted on
Background resources to explain the issues
Lots of scope for discussion
Would be biased towards those who are comfortable using computers or smart phones

[Hitcher]

It will never work.

1. You can't get rid of politicians. Ever.

2. Most people don't give a fuck and won't vote. That means the fucking tree hugging Trotski-ists end up running the joint in the way that best suits them. Just like student associations but on a bigger scale.

3. Representative democracy, while imperfect and fundamentally flawed, is better than any other form of government.

4. Under a system as outlined above, who writes the questions that people get polled on? Rhetorical question, because the answer is that paid government officials would. They already have too much say in how the country gets run. Please don't create a system that gives them all the say.

[Woodman]

Democracy is just mob rule.

Lowest common denominator gets to decide ?

Yeah right.

If you want a voice get involved in the select committee process, make submissions etc.

Otherwise, the idiots will just vote for the pretty option.

Exactly where it would fail. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean its right.

[Scuba_Steve]

Well this is where my system can help

It will never work.

1. You can't get rid of politicians. Ever.

Wouldn't need to, I'd just make them powerless


2. Most people don't give a fuck and won't vote. That means the fucking tree hugging Trotski-ists end up running the joint in the way that best suits them. Just like student associations but on a bigger scale.

People don't give a fuck because of the system, make their vote actually count & people will care


3. Representative democracy, while imperfect and fundamentally flawed, is better than any other form of government.

Nope


4. Under a system as outlined above, who writes the questions that people get polled on? Rhetorical question, because the answer is that paid government officials would. They already have too much say in how the country gets run. Please don't create a system that gives them all the say.
under my system the people decide, the Govt would just be powerless figureheads they would have the same say as everyone else no more no less

[Hitcher]

under my system the people decide, the Govt would just be powerless figureheads they would have the same say as everyone else no more no less

No they wouldn't. This would only work if the Parliament mandated it. I can't see any responsible government allowing a country to be run by Stuff polls.

[Scuba_Steve]

No they wouldn't. This would only work if the Parliament mandated it. I can't see any responsible government allowing a country to be run by Stuff polls.

my system does rely on me getting my A into G starting a party, gaining control & making myself powerless. I'm not talking about the current bunch of useless twats implementing it

[Hitcher]

my system does rely on me getting my A into G starting a party, gaining control & making myself powerless.

Good luck with that. I can't for a moment envisage you or any other elected politician giving up your taxpayer funded salary and perks package to let a rabble decide things for themselves.

[Big Dave]

let a rabble decide things

AKA Parliament.

[Hitcher]

AKA Parliament.

A democratically elected rabble. By people who think they favour a mixed member proportional system of representation made up of a whole bunch of people that they, the electors, don't even get a chance to pick.

[mashman]

You'd need a sympathetic government. Smacking Vote?

[jazfender]

Top idea, but never going to fly :(


A lot of folks don't use the internet.


It will never work.

Fuck these haters. Do it anyway, bro.

[Hitcher]

Fuck these haters. Do it anyway, bro.

Indeed. Go ahead. If largely unmoderated discourse on Kiwi Biker is any guide, it will only end in tears. The Pointless Drivel section will be an entertaining read.

[mashman]

It could work if the political party leaders backed it.

As for the internet. Not everyone votes, computer or ney.

Perhaps you could publish peoples votes. Why do we feel the need to hide them? You can check your own. :shifty:

[slowpoke]

No farkin' way! I don't trust politicians to always make the right decisions but I trust lazy, ignorant, self serving Joe Public even less....and the media, who write sensationalist crap which Joe Public falls for every time, even less than that.

Our current system isn't perfect but until I see something better, which this definitely isn't, it'll have to do.

[Winston001]

If the internet voting was non-binding that would overcome the danger of special interest groups dominating an issue.

Parliamentary referenda are already non-binding for good reason, but they do serve a purpose in letting the politicians know what people are bothered about.

[Hitcher]

Parliamentary referenda are already non-binding for good reason, but they do serve a purpose in letting the politicians know what people are bothered about.

Politicians only allow referendums if they can dictate the outcome. Remember the smacking referendum? Who the fuck wrote that question?

[Winston001]

Remember the smacking referendum? Who the fuck wrote that question?

Yeaahhh. :Punk: Bit of a giveaway about the organisers. ;)

[Marmoot]

Freedom of speech
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Freedom of speech NZ
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Login in
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protected
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Moderators to stop bad grammer
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10 characters

[xen]

Cool idea man, I had a similar one awhile ago, but has been said, it would need massive support to go anywhere.

I was thinking of having a blank slate and asking what would we like in a political-economic system if we started from scratch. Build it with a solid foundation like the USA's republic with a constituation & bill of rights, but also taking into account our human traits such as self interest & greed - we are corruptable lets make the system not able to be.

Non-binding referendums, don't think politicans would give it any value, wasn't about 80% of the country against GST when it was first bought in? Might work to show how out of touch they are with the public though, if they kept voting against what the new system's voters were proposing.

[-df-]

I've been contemplating something like this for a long time now ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/64929-Forming-a-political-party... ) but never found time to go any further with it.

Let me know if you are serious about something like this, I'd be very interested in it.

[Big Dave]

All the OP is describing now is an opinion poll. TV stations and newspapers already run them.

[Winston001]

True Dave, as far as it goes. But newspaper and television polls are not conducted on well-considered questions. They tend to be far more of the vox pop variety, asking for knee-jerk reactions to simplistic issues.

[Big Dave]

True Dave, as far as it goes. But newspaper and television polls are not conducted on well-considered questions. They tend to be far more of the vox pop variety, asking for knee-jerk reactions to simplistic issues.

True too - but that's also how Politics works - all sizzle - no sausage.

[Spyke]

Why did i start this thread? To see if their were people not happy with how we get a say in what is happening, as one person we get one vote if we want to make a difference. We have to basically change our whole career to go into politics to get anywhere then you will get pumped full of so much paper work you wonder if it will be all worth it?

Most people don't want a lifestyle like that so if all the ants work together so to speak, our voices can be heard by the queen key. if said queen doesn't like what he hears the ants kick out the queen and elect a new one.

I personally believe nz needs a kick up the butt, we have over 4 million people and so few actually get their voices heard. At this point in time in my life I get to vote in the elections and make submissions that most likely won't be heard.
I'm all for making a system where instead of 1000 people getting polled for the view of the nation we have the nation connected and the whole nation has the chance to put their hand up for all decisions. If it gets to a point where this can happen most people won't abuse the system as it will benefit them. why snap the wooden spoon you get fed with?

I wouldn't mind seeing whether the country agrees with off shore oil/ gas drilling, solar/wind power, more cycle ways, work and income, retirement age, what the average working week should be, minimum wages, whether the govt is doing its best with social infustructure and the list goes on. We could revolusionise nz by letting the majority speak as we know what we want.

Compromises can be made by giant surveys that actually mean something. the govt can't turn a blind eye to even half the population voting on a subject.

I bet you could even have a cellphone app that lets you vote on the move.

I don't have the money to fund this but i can sure try drum up support, give ideas and give our nation hope that we can become a better country!

How can the govt refuse an idea like this? turn a blind eye? get enough support and nz could make a holiday that isn't on the map. NZ freedom day then they may listen. I'd sugest doing something with friends or family on a day like this.

[slowpoke]

Why did i start this thread? To see if their were people not happy with how we get a say in what is happening, as one person we get one vote if we want to make a difference. We have to basically change our whole career to go into politics to get anywhere then you will get pumped full of so much paper work you wonder if it will be all worth it?

Most people don't want a lifestyle like that so if all the ants work together so to speak, our voices can be heard by the queen key. if said queen doesn't like what he hears the ants kick out the queen and elect a new one.

I personally believe nz needs a kick up the butt, we have over 4 million people and so few actually get their voices heard. At this point in time in my life I get to vote in the elections and make submissions that most likely won't be heard.
I'm all for making a system where instead of 1000 people getting polled for the view of the nation we have the nation connected and the whole nation has the chance to put their hand up for all decisions. If it gets to a point where this can happen most people won't abuse the system as it will benefit them. why snap the wooden spoon you get fed with?

I wouldn't mind seeing whether the country agrees with off shore oil/ gas drilling, solar/wind power, more cycle ways, work and income, retirement age, what the average working week should be, minimum wages, whether the govt is doing its best with social infustructure and the list goes on. We could revolusionise nz by letting the majority speak as we know what we want.

Compromises can be made by giant surveys that actually mean something. the govt can't turn a blind eye to even half the population voting on a subject.

I bet you could even have a cellphone app that lets you vote on the move.

I don't have the money to fund this but i can sure try drum up support, give ideas and give our nation hope that we can become a better country!

How can the govt refuse an idea like this? turn a blind eye? get enough support and nz could make a holiday that isn't on the map. NZ freedom day then they may listen. I'd sugest doing something with friends or family on a day like this.

So what you are actually saying is that you are tired (after how many elections exactly?) of nobody doing what you want to do. What's to say this will change under your "everybody works less, gets paid more, imports everything, gimme more facilites without paying for it" utopian society?

For the record:
Yes to oil/gas/mineral exporation everywhere including National Parks. If we're gonna use it we should be prepared to produce it. Set stringent standards and lead the way in clean oil/gas/mineral recovery, the tech can then be exported around the world.
No to cycleways unless cyclists are prepared to pay for them. ACC levies should be applied to cyclists.
I'm currently in the middle of 28 straight 12 hour nightshifts. 9-5 5 days a weeks sounds pretty damn good right about now.
No idea what "social infrastructure" is..........pub's? You want the government to build pub's? WTF?
Minimum wage I'm not sure about: more people off the dole but working for less, or equal minimum standard for all. Convince me.......
Solar power should be encouraged, but wind power is fucking over some small communites and needs to be handled better.
Retirement age? The way I piss my missus off I doubt I'll live that long....combined with the fact I'm worth more dead than alive, the odds aren't good.

So all in all pretty much what you're happy to go along with? Good, glad we got that sorted.

[Spyke]

So what you are actually saying is that you are tired (after how many elections exactly?) of nobody doing what you want to do. What's to say this will change under your "everybody works less, gets paid more, imports everything, gimme more facilites without paying for it" utopian society?

For the record:
Yes to oil/gas/mineral exporation everywhere including National Parks. If we're gonna use it we should be prepared to produce it. Set stringent standards and lead the way in clean oil/gas/mineral recovery, the tech can then be exported around the world.
No to cycleways unless cyclists are prepared to pay for them. ACC levies should be applied to cyclists.
I'm currently in the middle of 28 straight 12 hour nightshifts. 9-5 5 days a weeks sounds pretty damn good right about now.
No idea what "social infrastructure" is..........pub's? You want the government to build pub's? WTF?
Minimum wage I'm not sure about: more people off the dole but working for less, or equal minimum standard for all. Convince me.......
Solar power should be encouraged, but wind power is fucking over some small communites and needs to be handled better.
Retirement age? The way I piss my missus off I doubt I'll live that long....combined with the fact I'm worth more dead than alive, the odds aren't good.

So all in all pretty much what you're happy to go along with? Good, glad we got that sorted.

i'm happy to go along with what ever new zealand decides is right, I have strong beliefs and i think that is fine to have. If this idea ever takes off I wouldn't want to be the one to ask the questions as i am not qualified to make those decisions. All i want to do is give more people as a whole, more opportunity to make a decision for the country. if people don't like that it won't go anywhere as it is only an idea.

thank you for sharing your views on my post, that is why i wrote it cruedly so if people wanted to add they could.
I don't want a utopia, i want a place that people can live more and work less. money spent more wisely in places that everyone wants. money spent where it is needed? money isn't everything but using it wisely helps. education not qualification?

No one in this world is worth more dead than alive, everyone can turn their lives around even if they are convicted criminals (if they change their ways some take longer than others).

social infastructure like more youth centres where teens can get off the streets and have a place that is safe and a friendly environment. more community centres where people can do night courses and programes that get more people invovled in the community?

the pub, drinking isn't the end of the world is it? life don't revolve around it. Well my experience is it degrades life as it is easy to over indulge, but being a responsible drinker and going to the pub with a few mates or family is nice.

[Woodman]

Have you ever watched parliament TV?? The amount of reading of submissions and all that kind of shit just to get a law passed is phenomonal. It seems every decision is drilled right down to its core and any objections are worked through/debated etc before any votes are cast.
Admittedly I don't fully understand how it all works, but can you imagine every NZer reading the fine print and becoming fully informed before they vote?? Not on your life would that happen. Some would of course and would object or ask for more info or get on a soapbox and have the whole decision looked into again for a vote later on. These people would form lobby groups and would affiliate themselves with certain ways of thinking and try to influence others to think like they do so the individual voters just have to log on and vote like their favourite lobby group. Pretty much what we have now.

The rest would watch campbell live and moan like fuck about non-issues and not vote at all.

[Big Dave]

"Some modern representative democracies very heavily rely upon forms of political action that are directly democratic. Examples include Switzerland and some U.S. states, where frequent use is made of referendums and initiatives. Although managed by a representative legislative body, Switzerland allows for initiatives and referendums at both the local and federal levels. In the past 120 years more than 240 initiatives have been put to referendum. The populace has been conservative, approving only about 10% of the initiatives put before them; in addition, they have often opted for a version of the initiative rewritten by government" - Wiki.

Remember that almost 50% of the population are below Mr J Average.