Curiosity about the use of personal photos

[Blackbird]

I was in Auckland on Tuesday having new tyres fitted. The whole tale is here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-tyres-difficult-replacement-choices.html, but here is the relevant part pertaining to this bit of the tale.

Whilst I was waiting for the tyres to be changed, I was flicking through Motorcycle Trader. It's not a magazine I buy and I started reading an article about tyres. In the article, there was a photo of a Street Triple with a laser alignment rig - bloody heck, it was my bike and the rig I built! :shit: (and I took the photo).

I've never had any contact with Motorcycle Trader so it was rather a surprise to see a photo I'd taken! The only way it could have got to them was for it to have been copied from my bike blog. Now I have to say that I was more surprised and curious than annoyed so wrote a neutrally-worded email to the editor as soon as I got back, asking where it came from, but not mentioning the blog. To date I've had no response whatsoever.

If he replies showing a bit of contrition, that will be the end of the matter - I'm not going to make a mountain out of a molehill. I do, however, think it's lazy journalism and discourteous at the least. If there's no reply or an inappropriate one, I may take it further; simply to wind them up a bit.

Does anyone have an informed legal opinion (as opposed to the normal KB uninformed opinions) with respect to their actions - copyright infringement perhaps? A bit cheeky at the very least, given they're a profit-making entity.

Watch this space :shifty:

Cheers,

Geoff

[Bikemad]

im no lawyer mate but i guess if you already had the info up on a blog then its pretty much in the public domain/knowledge catagory........so not sure you could argue copywright issues but good luck.........

[Big Dave]

Miss Luana is on here or Shane the Editor is a good man.

Tell 'em you want a subscription to keep schtummm.:laugh:

[Blackbird]

Miss Luana is on here or Shane the Editor is a good man.

Tell 'em you want a subscription to keep schtummm.:laugh:

Cheers Dave!
I'll wait and see if Shane gets off his arse and replies - he may be away from the office. As I said, I'm not out for blood or anything, maybe just a bit of sport. I have more than enough reading without adding anything else to the list :laugh:

Best wishes for the return to Aussie :Punk:

[ellipsis]

....one of the coolest pics my son took of a line-up on the start line at Ruapuna also ended up on another website...doesn't worry us in the least...but the mystery of how it ended up there is baffling...just shows that nothing goes unnoticed out there in the ether...

[Blackbird]

....one of the coolest pics my son took of a line-up on the start line at Ruapuna also ended up on another website...doesn't worry us in the least...but the mystery of how it ended up there is baffling...just shows that nothing goes unnoticed out there in the ether...

Yep, I've found photos of my old drag bike from the late 60's on several international websites but it's interesting that in all cases, it's been referenced with respect to source. You're certainly right about nothing going unnoticed. I've even had an old school friend track me down recently and I'm 63!

[Big Dave]

You should have paid him the sixpence you owed him back then.

[Big Dave]

Oh - Several of my portfolio have turned up in UK magazine ads too.

Call it a compliment.

[Blackbird]

You should have paid him the sixpence you owed him back then.

Hahahaha! Interestingly enough, he had to do another year at school because he pissed about so much and we lost touch. He ended up as a Wing Commander in the RAF and an advisor to the UK Cabinet in the Falklands conflict. Dunno whether the moral is that dicking about will get you anywhere, or that there's hope for any late developer :laugh:

[The Lone Rider]

There are a few things to be noted, from what my knowledge is -

1. Does your blog have a copyright written anywhere, with all rights reserved (or any of the various CC reservations.

While in NZ, copyright is instantaneous the moment you create something, records need to be kept and property needs to be labeled as such

2. Last time I went through the NZ copyrights laws, there is a clause stating a form of free to use, when copyrighted material is being used for the purpose of reporting on current events. Providing the source and copyright holder is attributed.

3. I wonder if this falls into the domain of illegally downloading and "sharing" of copyrighted material?

[Blackbird]

Thanks for that Lone Rider - great background. It'll never come to that though - purely curiosity as I said but it does have potential repercussions for other people in other circumstances, particularly if people plagiarise or misuse commercial material (maybe like Dave's photos).

[george formby]

3. I wonder if this falls into the domain of illegally downloading and "sharing" of copyrighted material?


That was my first thought too.

[Virago]

I think The Lone Rider has it pretty well right.

Any information, images etc posted on the internet without a copyright declaration, can usually be regarded as fair game, although courtesy would generally require that the source is acknowledged. But that's almost impossible to enforce.

The ultimate irony is that a magazine usually declares its own copyright, which would presumably include your material.

You need to put a copyright statement on your blog, which details the copyright status - eg no use of material without written authorisation, or free use with source acknowledgement, blah blah.

[nadroj]

Generally I'm happy for others to use my images privately without acknowledgement, however if they are published in advertising material or in a profit making publication I insist on acknowledgement unless money changes hands.

[The Lone Rider]

Generally I'm happy for others to use my images privately without acknowledgement, however if they are published in advertising material or in a profit making publication I insist on acknowledgement unless money changes hands.

Find the one that best suits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons

[pritch]

"Lazy journalism" is over egging the pudding. It's just lazy. It has nothing much to do with journalism.

Bloggers and others are complaining that the papers and TV networks are now routinely using 'Net sourced stories without credit.

Recently I understand the Harold used a catchy major headline which they "borrowed" from a talkback radio caller.

I have twice in recent months seen stories on the TV3 News which I had read previously on blogs. No mention of the source. It is understandable that at least one blogger refers to "repeaters" rather than reporters.

[Big Dave]

It is understandable that at least one blogger refers to "repeaters" rather than reporters.

Because he's narked that he can't get a gig at a real publication?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was in Auckland on Tuesday having new tyres fitted. The whole tale is here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-tyres-difficult-replacement-choices.html, but here is the relevant part pertaining to this bit of the tale.

Whilst I was waiting for the tyres to be changed, I was flicking through Motorcycle Trader. It's not a magazine I buy and I started reading an article about tyres. In the article, there was a photo of a Street Triple with a laser alignment rig - bloody heck, it was my bike and the rig I built! :shit: (and I took the photo).

I've never had any contact with Motorcycle Trader so it was rather a surprise to see a photo I'd taken! The only way it could have got to them was for it to have been copied from my bike blog. Now I have to say that I was more surprised and curious than annoyed so wrote a neutrally-worded email to the editor as soon as I got back, asking where it came from, but not mentioning the blog. To date I've had no response whatsoever.

If he replies showing a bit of contrition, that will be the end of the matter - I'm not going to make a mountain out of a molehill. I do, however, think it's lazy journalism and discourteous at the least. If there's no reply or an inappropriate one, I may take it further; simply to wind them up a bit.

Does anyone have an informed legal opinion (as opposed to the normal KB uninformed opinions) with respect to their actions - copyright infringement perhaps? A bit cheeky at the very least, given they're a profit-making entity.

Watch this space :shifty:

Cheers,

Geoff

no idea about that copyright stuff, but tell us more about your street triple and the laser alignment rig. Photo too. please.

[HenryDorsetCase]

"Lazy journalism" is over egging the pudding. It's just lazy. It has nothing much to do with journalism.

Bloggers and others are complaining that the papers and TV networks are now routinely using 'Net sourced stories without credit.

Recently I understand the Harold used a catchy major headline which they "borrowed" from a talkback radio caller.

I have twice in recent months seen stories on the TV3 News which I had read previously on blogs. No mention of the source. It is understandable that at least one blogger refers to "repeaters" rather than reporters.

aren't they "reporting" what they find to other, less well informed folk?

[pritch]

aren't they "reporting" what they find to other, less well informed folk?

Not really. If they research and write their own story, yes. If they just plagiarise somebody else's work, no.

[Blackbird]

no idea about that copyright stuff, but tell us more about your street triple and the laser alignment rig. Photo too. please.

HDC:
The first laser rig was for my Blackbird in 2004 or thereabouts. It was a non-adjustable prototype for a 180 rear section, 120 front section tyre combination. It worked so well that I didn't bother to refine it. The original article is here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2010/03/wheel-alignment-improve-your-handling.html. When I bought the Striple, the height of the rig was wrong for it because I now used a rear paddock stand so I just raised the height a bit. The tyres were the same sections as for the 'bird. There's a photo here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/02/street-triple-paddock-stand-and-wheel.html. That's the photo which Motorcycle Trader used.

BTW, just click on any of the photos to enlarge. Hope it's of interest.

Geoff

[Blackbird]

Not really. If they research and write their own story, yes. If they just plagiarise somebody else's work, no.

Ron:
I think that "Reporters" is a more accurate word than "Journalist" judging by most TV and print media these days. I personally think you can only be called a true journo if you're capable of doing some digging, interpreting the facts and presenting them in a concise manner - most aren't. I know it's getting away from the topic a bit but I listened to an English investigative journalist the other morning on the radio talking about the global financial crisis. His ability to get to the root causes without cliches and his candour was breathtaking. Learned more in 10 minutes than anything I'd picked up in the last year. Oh to have had him as a lecturer....

[scumdog]

Not really. If they research and write their own story, yes. If they just plagiarise somebody else's work, no.

I wonder who they turn to and blame when they have inaccuaries in a story they paigerised?

More if they've been threatened with court action for defamation when they've used somebody elses 'info' and not checked it for accuracy/truth?

[oneofsix]

I wonder who they turn to and blame when they have inaccuaries in a story they paigerised?

More if they've been threatened with court action for defamation when they've used somebody elses 'info' and not checked it for accuracy/truth?

Isn't that part of the reason they do it? Laziness and cheapness are the prime movers but after that comes observation of source. If they are sued they deny ultimate responsibility and confuse and prolong any case making it too costly to sue them and limiting their liability.

[Spearfish]

Lots of maggots crawled out of the News of the World once that turd was busted open so I guess there is a limit to what a wordsmith can get away with. I think some news channels in NZ look like they have some wrigglers just under the skin

[Big Dave]

I've worked in a few news rooms as an Artist. You can't tar them all with the same brush. The standards are set by the Publisher and Editor.

[Maha]

Can you draw Mickey Mouse?

[Big Dave]

Can you draw Mickey Mouse?

I can draw a wage. Literally.

[scumdog]

I can draw a wage. Literally.

I can draw a rabbit in less than 15 seconds on a good day.

Just don't stand behind me when I'm doing so....:shifty:

[Big Dave]

I can draw a rabbit in less than 15 seconds on a good day.

Just don't stand behind me when I'm doing so....:shifty:

You should see where he sticks the carrot.

[Swoop]

I wonder who they turn to and blame when they have inaccuaries in a story they paigerised?
They probably blame their spell checker or Rupert Murdoch.

[Oakie]

I don't think I'm good enough to demand money for my photos but I do ask for an acknowledgement when used in a publication. I have scored a bottle of whisky (...sorry 'whiskey', it was Canadian Club) for doing some wedding photos though. :)

[Hitcher]

Does anyone have an informed legal opinion (as opposed to the normal KB uninformed opinions) with respect to their actions - copyright infringement perhaps? A bit cheeky at the very least, given they're a profit-making entity.

Copyright has been breached. Copyright exists even when it isn't stated. Just because something has been published doesn't make it fair game, as people who up until recently used to be able to voraciously devour bitstream torrent movies can attest.

At the very least the publishers owe you and their readers a big apology. I'd hit them up for a 10-year free subscription as well.

[Blackbird]

Copyright has been breached. Copyright exists even when it isn't stated. Just because something has been published doesn't make it fair game, as people who up until recently used to be able to voraciously devour bitstream torrent movies can attest.

At the very least the publishers owe you and their readers a big apology. I'd hit them up for a 10-year free subscription as well.

Cheers Brett - a single bottle of Glemorangie will be sufficient :shifty:

[Spearfish]

Its a damn good read that blog I'm not surprised it was used, but a little surprised no acknowledgement was included.
Kids at uni have to put their reference details in or fail the paper.

[Blackbird]

Thanks for the kind words Spearfish. Started it to fill in some time whilst I was around the house looking after my wife after hip surgery. Only thought it would have a few weeks' life, but it sort of got a life of its own:laugh::laugh:

[Blackbird]

Had an email from the Editor of Motorcycle Trader this morning. He thinks that their image handler (whatever/whoever that is!) may have got my photo from Getty Images but will check. In any event, they're graciously providing a free subscription to their magazine and one of those flash carabiner-type combination helmet locks.

Always pays to be courteous first time up :rockon:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Thanks for the kind words Spearfish. Started it to fill in some time whilst I was around the house looking after my wife after hip surgery. Only thought it would have a few weeks' life, but it sort of got a life of its own:laugh::laugh:

that wheel alignment rig is very clever. I am sure I have all the shit in my garage I need to build it. Our cat will be pissed when the laser pointer disappears though.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Had an email from the Editor of Motorcycle Trader this morning. He thinks that their image handler (whatever/whoever that is!) may have got my photo from Getty Images but will check. In any event, they're graciously providing a free subscription to their magazine and one of those flash carabiner-type combination helmet locks.

Always pays to be courteous first time up :rockon:

win! excellent.

You should write a column for them, they'e always looking for a few inches. (heh heh)

[Blackbird]

that wheel alignment rig is very clever. I am sure I have all the shit in my garage I need to build it. Our cat will be pissed when the laser pointer disappears though.

Cheers! Yeah, my laser was an old laser and biro combination which was mainly used for amusing the cats too :laugh:



win! excellent.

You should write a column for them, they'e always looking for a few inches. (heh heh)

Oh haha! (Actually, it must have been several years since I read Bike Trader until the chance encounter with my own bike!)

[pritch]

On Radio NZ National News today, a complaint from Martin Devlin has been partially upheld against the NZ Herald. One of their sources in the story at issue was an unverifiable post on Twitter.

Fail!

[The Lone Rider]

Had an email from the Editor of Motorcycle Trader this morning. He thinks that their image handler (whatever/whoever that is!) may have got my photo from Getty Images but will check. In any event, they're graciously providing a free subscription to their magazine and one of those flash carabiner-type combination helmet locks.

Always pays to be courteous first time up :rockon:

And they should be posting a note in an issue stating their stuff up, and that the source of the photo was you.

How the fuck do they get a photo you took, from a commercial enterprise that sells stock photos under various licenses? If that was the case, Getty Images or a user is stealin off photos and making cash off it.

At least you got something for though.

[Blackbird]

They did actually offer to state source in the next issue, which I declined.

If it was Getty Images at fault, it's a different matter, not that I'm going to do anything about it.

[The Lone Rider]

If it was Getty Images at fault, it's a different matter, not that I'm going to do anything about it.

You should. Getty images price ranges go up to around $900 USD for one image, in a high resolution and size.

[Bad Biker]

Gidday Blackbird,

As you say it is no biggy them using the picture but they are using it for magazine for which they are getting monetary gain.

Like you I would wind them up for sport.

The least they should do when using pictures from other sources is acknowledge where they got it from and not from their own hard work.

:Police::drinkup::Police:

[blackdog]

Would they have been so easy going if you had taken their article and published it on your blog with the pic, and claimed you had written it?

[Blackbird]

Would they have been so easy going if you had taken their article and published it on your blog with the pic, and claimed you had written it?

They would have almost certainly wanted my head but after working at a fairly high level in the corporate world until I retired, it doesn't mean that I have to behave like a vindictive twat. My choice to opt out of that sort of behaviour and do what I think is appropriate in this instance.

[Big Dave]

When I told him about this, The Ed said he would like some more of your stuff for KR.

[slowpoke]

Bugger! Here's me seeing the words "personal photo's" and I was thinking of.........
...oh never mind....

Nice wheel alignment rig though, top marks mate!

[Jantar]

Cheers Brett - a single bottle of Glemorangie will be sufficient :shifty:

Hear hear..... Now Paulette and I just may be up your way in a few weeks to help you drink it. :laugh:

[Jantar]

Had an email from the Editor of Motorcycle Trader this morning. He thinks that their image handler (whatever/whoever that is!) may have got my photo from Getty Images but will check. In any event, they're graciously providing a free subscription to their magazine and one of those flash carabiner-type combination helmet locks.

Always pays to be courteous first time up :rockon:
Damn. The Glenmorangie would have been a much better choice. :innocent:

[Blackbird]

Damn. The Glenmorangie would have been a much better choice. :innocent:

Don't fret Malcolm, we have 2 bottles of Glenmorangie and 1 bottle of Glenlivet from our recent Thailand trip if you get up this far :laugh:

[The Lone Rider]

it doesn't mean that I have to behave like a vindictive twat. My choice to opt out of that sort of behaviour and do what I think is appropriate in this instance.

I'm not sure being properly credited, and appropriately paid is being vindictive. Or a twat.

Some of the bands that have taken fans to court however... well they've been a bit vindictive.

For shits and giggles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6udST6lbE

Although I am a fan of theirs.

[scumdog]

Don't fret Malcolm, we have 2 bottles of Glenmorangie and 1 bottle of Glenlivet from our recent Thailand trip if you get up this far :laugh:
You try to lure ME up there too??

[Blackbird]

You try to lure ME up there too??

Any time you like Tom, so long as you leave your banjo at home :shifty: