Revalving, misconceptions and food for thought

[Robert Taylor]

I get asked this several times a week and this week has been no exception. Can you revalve my suspension? The answers can be;


Yes we can based on previous experience with that model as it has suitable pistons that will flow enough oil over abrupt bumps
No we cannot based on previous experience with that model as it has pistons with tiny ports that cannot be modified to a suitable size to flow enough oil over abrupt bumps. Even if you removed the whole goddam compression stacks!
We really dont know until we pull apart and assess the stock pistons as we have not seen that model variation before....

Even doing research on the internet is less than foolproof. If you go to a number of the overseas search sites they will regardless want to sell you their pistons irrespective if the stock ones are totally suitable or not. They do not divulge details of the stock pistons.

Our approach at CKT is pragmatic and mindful that real incomes in NZ are not so flash and that we currently live in a very broken world. If we pull the cartridges apart and determine that 1/2 or all of the pistons are perfectly okay to give a very decent result then we wont spend your hard earned money needlessly on pistons that are going to loosen your wallet further. ALSO if the pistons clearly will not flow enough oil over abrupt bumps ( thereby failing to give decent compliance and over-stressing your tyres ) we will inform you of the very real need to replace them, at the best possible cost for you the customer but also not to send us broke so we are there for future backup.

BPF forks are a case in point, the port flow area is so minimal that no amount of revalving will yield a decent improvement, on road or track. If anyone tells you otherwise then they are fooling themselves, frankly

2 positive announcements that we have:


Race Tech pricing has by negotiation been reviewed downwards so that we as a Kiwi company can compete with the offshore companies who happily sell into our market due to current exchange rate distortions, but are not here with feet on the ground to provide any backup
Our new sophisticated shock and fork dyno is on its way from the States and will be especially valuable for verifying the success of revalve changes, it will also like an engine dyno be a BS detector! More on that to follow.

[ajturbo]

Hey Robert..

It was good to see you again on Sunday..! great to see how you are helping out young Ken...:Punk:


i must get my RG50 to you one day...:laugh:

[Robert Taylor]

Hey Robert..

It was good to see you again on Sunday..! great to see how you are helping out young Ken...:Punk:


i must get my RG50 to you one day...:laugh:

Ken has very admirable qualities including being extremely polite, he is well bred. Increasingly rare these days.

[ajturbo]

Ken has very admirable qualities including being extremely polite, he is well bred. Increasingly rare these days.


You have the nail on the head....(not too sure about the breeding).. hahahahah

but i did notice you by pasted my comment on the RG....:confused::laugh:

[F5 Dave]

So as not to waste the good Dr's time allow me to answer that. - I think the only pistons you will find in the humble RG are the front brake & a small one in the noisy hot bit in the middle. Can I thus suggest, say 30 weight oil in both ends. Having carefully assessed your stout manly form I would have preferred to suggest 40 or 50 weight but I'm not sure they make that so perhaps melt some (1 & 1/2 metric handfuls) of axle grease into the mix. No no, no need to thank me.


oh yeah & nice thread. I though you had a shock dyno? or is this an update?

[ajturbo]

Dave... your my savour... :laugh:

[Robert Taylor]

So as not to waste the good Dr's time allow me to answer that. - I think the only pistons you will find in the humble RG are the front brake & a small one in the noisy hot bit in the middle. Can I thus suggest, say 30 weight oil in both ends. Having carefully assessed your stout manly form I would have preferred to suggest 40 or 50 weight but I'm not sure they make that so perhaps melt some (1 & 1/2 metric handfuls) of axle grease into the mix. No no, no need to thank me.


oh yeah & nice thread. I though you had a shock dyno? or is this an update?

We have had an Italian made shock dyno for around 8 years but in true Italian fashion it has had an intermittent problem for the last 3 years or so. So we have ordered a state of the art Roehrig fork and shock dyno from the US. These are recognised as the industry best and the capabilities and what you can read are way beyond our existing dyno. When it arrives I will post up further info, photos and test results etc.
I hasten to add that this has not been funded by my massive profits ( yeah right ) but from a legacy.

[HQfiend]

We have had an Italian made shock dyno for around 8 years but in true Italian fashion it has had an intermittent problem for the last 3 years or so. So we have ordered a state of the art Roehrig fork and shock dyno from the US. These are recognised as the industry best and the capabilities and what you can read are way beyond our existing dyno. When it arrives I will post up further info, photos and test results etc.
I hasten to add that this has not been funded by my massive profits ( yeah right ) but from a legacy.


Well Robert, you know that Italian stuff, get it wet and the electrics play up!

Just out of curiosity, what is a ball park figure for doing an Ohlins cartridge conversion to the stock forks of a SV1000s K7?
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41536

[Robert Taylor]

Well Robert, you know that Italian stuff, get it wet and the electrics play up!

Just out of curiosity, what is a ball park figure for doing an Ohlins cartridge conversion to the stock forks of a SV1000s K7?
http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41536

There is no Ohlins cartridge kit specific for SV1000. The only way it would be in any way economically viable would be to pick up a good used 25mm set from somewhere. But you would also have to factor still buying some parts, machining and lots of labour. The end result would be like night and day but you'd have to be prepared for cost and downtime.

The stock cartridges are of course sealed for life units but it would be possible to bastardise ( maybe not the right word ) with servicable / strippable 20mm cartridge pieces and fit good pistons and valving. To that end I believe we have all the parts to do so. We also have a very good used set of Traxxion cartridges that could be used as the base components, married to the latest and greatest Race Tech pistons. Not as good as the end result with Ohlins but a huge improvement nonetheless.

[ajturbo]

Yeah.. if i had a legacy... i would sell it too..:shifty:

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah.. if i had a legacy... i would sell it too..:shifty:

Yeah AJ, worse than Italian stuff!

[jellywrestler]

I hasten to add that this has not been funded by my massive profits ( yeah right ) but from a legacy.
A Subaru Legacy by chance?

[Robert Taylor]

A Subaru Legacy by chance?

You're a brain surgeon! No, sorry to disappoint

[husaberg]

You're a brain surgeon! No, sorry to disappoint


I will post this here in the hope that you will see this Robert.

I have a NF4 Bucket i am currently building it will be around 75KG i will be er... closer to 90kg
the Chassis as far as i can ascertain is a 89 (I think) it has a Adjustable rebound and Comp rear shock.
But the forks appear to be air adjustable only. they are obviously in need of a rebuild.(Zero damping currently)
but is it worth it? what can be done with them.Gold valves etc what is in them just damper rods?
Or should i just hunt around for later model forks.
I was kind of surprised they weren't at least rebound adjustable to tell you the truth.

Oh i obviously haven't cracked them open yet either.

[Robert Taylor]

I will post this here in the hope that you will see this Robert.

I have a NF4 Bucket i am currently building it will be around 75KG i will be er... closer to 90kg
the Chassis as far as i can ascertain is a 89 (I think) it has a Adjustable rebound and Comp rear shock.
But the forks appear to be air adjustable only. they are obviously in need of a rebuild.(Zero damping currently)
but is it worth it? what can be done with them.Gold valves etc what is in them just damper rods?
Or should i just hunt around for later model forks.
I was kind of surprised they weren't at least rebound adjustable to tell you the truth.

Oh i obviously haven't cracked them open yet either.

Excuse my ignorance, what is an NF4?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Excuse my ignorance, what is an NF4?

It's the model right after the NF3

[husaberg]

Excuse my ignorance, what is an NF4?

Sorry Pardon for not being more specific Whoops.

Sorry for Chrasher er...well a case for not drinking while preggy?

Early cantilever RS125 Honda Pre 95
264177264178
Mine below is not so pretty

The rear is def an adjust comp rebound and ride height so may not be off the original bike? Could be later or original i don't know enough about them.

If they are indeed the same forks as in the parts Fiche wow they are basic for a privateer GP bike

Not much different than a 80's road bike inside. 35mm tube from memory

[Drew]

Emulators are your best bet for those forks. Cheap, and adequate bucket racing.

[F5 Dave]

It wasn't till the 91 where they got Hondas sort of first attempt at a cartridge.

The rear should have comp & rebound adjuster + ride height on the top collar, been that way since at least '89. The 91 & 89 rear units are different in that the top of the shock is bigger on the 91, whereas the 89 shrinks down a bit. Looks like the 90 is the same as 89 from schematic. First stripped picture is a 91 or later shock by the looks (squinting).

Robert revalved my 91 shock for a little less high speed compression which helped on bumpy tracks.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry for Chrasher er...well a case for not drinking while preggy?



I'm not pregnant.

[husaberg]

I'm not pregnant.

Not that surprised ........


It wasn't till the 91 where they got Hondas sort of first attempt at a cartridge.

The rear should have comp & rebound adjuster + ride height on the top collar, been that way since at least '89. The 91 & 89 rear units are different in that the top of the shock is bigger on the 91, whereas the 89 shrinks down a bit. Looks like the 90 is the same as 89 from schematic. First stripped picture is a 91 or later shock by the looks (squinting).

Robert revalved my 91 shock for a little less high speed compression which helped on bumpy tracks.

Thanks Dave. What did you do with the forks?

So the cartridge forks are fully adjustable? from 91 on?

And yes the schematic is 90.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not that surprised ........

Yeah. You don't strike me as being that bright.

[husaberg]

Yeah. You don't strike me as being that bright.

To be able to judge a book by it's cover. It would pay to be literate i guess.:niceone:

[Crasherfromwayback]

To be able to judge a book by it's cover. It would pay to be literate i guess.:niceone:

As I was saying. You don't have to be literate to like pictures.

[husaberg]

as i was saying. You don't have to be literate to like pictures.
ok........

264200

[Crasherfromwayback]

ok........



That I understand!

[F5 Dave]

Well, Robert will slap you for saying fully adjustable. but yes they have low speed bleed clickers.

With the 89 forks I removed the hydraulic bump stops & made some nolathyne like ones & then made some covers for the top of the damper rods that didn't impede flow, but did direct it sideways to try stop the oil being pumped to the top of the forks & sucking air. Along with stiffening the springs by super carefully cutting them down & readjusting preload.

When I swapped the 91 forks onto the bike for the better brake for a particular race I realised that they just weren't as good as the 91s.
Oil 10 W
for the 91: 210cc ea

106mm gap


Can't do much more with them, kind of a sealed unit, but take apart forks & flush several times with kero & again & drain & drain again.

Can't remember the 89s oil capacity, but I have the manual. Don't run more than 10w

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry, this thread was off the radar screen for a few days. To identify what size emulators are required in the first instance we merely need to know the outer diameter of 1 x fork spring, that will be indicative.
If you can e-mail me that info to robert@kss.net.nz and I will then respond. The devil is very much in the detail and its also for road / road race application very important that you dont follow some of the ( very generic ) self instal instructions to the letter. Also there are some very specific setting mods to do to the emulators for the application.
If in my haste I have missed anything please ask me in the e-mail

[husaberg]

Sorry, this thread was off the radar screen for a few days. To identify what size emulators are required in the first instance we merely need to know the outer diameter of 1 x fork spring, that will be indicative.
If you can e-mail me that info to robert@kss.net.nz and I will then respond. The devil is very much in the detail and its also for road / road race application very important that you dont follow some of the ( very generic ) self instal instructions to the letter. Also there are some very specific setting mods to do to the emulators for the application.
If in my haste I have missed anything please ask me in the e-mail


Thanks Robert i will do.