Insurance claim question

[The Pastor]

I dont like insurance.

BUT, this has been on my mind for a while.

If someone crashes into my $2,000 bike, and dose $7,000 damage. Can I force their insurance to repair rather than replace it?

[Shaun]

Not sure to be honest. All I know Is Shaun Harris Motorcycles at 742 Beach Rd Browns bay Auckland Repair crashed bikes:yes:

[Oscar]

I dont like insurance.

BUT, this has been on my mind for a while.

If someone crashes into my $2,000 bike, and dose $7,000 damage. Can I force their insurance to repair rather than replace it?

If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one has a gun to your head.

To answer the question:


The Company may, at its option repair, reinstate or replace any lost or damaged Insured Vehicle or any part ‎of it, or may pay the amount of the Loss. The payment will not exceed the reasonable Market Value of the ‎Insured Vehicle at the time of the Loss or the Agreed Value of the Insured Vehicle declared to the Company ‎‎(if insured on this basis) and the Special Limits of Liability specified in the Schedule and any other limits ‎specified in the Policy.‎

[2Seat_Terror]

At that point, wouldn't they be almost the same result?

Getting money from insurance can be hard at the best of times, good luck achieving this!

My 10c...

[The Pastor]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. No one has a gun to your head.

To answer the question:

yeah, buts that's an agreement between the dickheads insurance company and the dickhead. No agreement with me.

I should ring up a company and ask.

[Flip]

No they will only pay out the market value of the bike.

[The Pastor]

No they will only pay out the market value of the bike.

but its my bike, and I want it repaired.

[Scuba_Steve]

I dont like insurance.

BUT, this has been on my mind for a while.

If someone crashes into my $2,000 bike, and dose $7,000 damage. Can I force their insurance to repair rather than replace it?

My guess would be you can only make them pay out the replacement value.

I had the same situation recently which I ended up with 1300$ & my bike (which only ended up having cosmetic damage :woohoo:)

[English Kiwi]

but its my bike, and I want it repaired.

If the cost of the damage is more than the value of the bike the Insurance company will write it off.

If you want it repaired more than likely you'd have to try and buy the bike back off the company, but possibly won't be able to Insure it again!

Best bet would be to repair it outside of Insurance companies if you really want to keep the bike!

[Oscar]

yeah, buts that's an agreement between the dickheads insurance company and the dickhead. No agreement with me.

I should ring up a company and ask.

So you're an uninsured party?

Get a lawyer.

[imdying]

but its my bike, and I want it repaired.How about the replacement value and you get to keep your old bike for a dollar? I assume they're going to be willing to negotiate a little to get rid of you? Oscar?

[Oscar]

How about the replacement value and you get to keep your old bike for a dollar? I assume they're going to be willing to negotiate a little to get rid of you? Oscar?

This is one occasion where his personality might work for him.‎
Make a pest of yourself (have a go at them for loss of use, for example) and they’ll ‎probably sell you the wreck for next to nowt. ‎

[baffa]

Why would the insurance company spend more repairing your bike than what it is currently worth? Insurance companies arent there to be a charity.

Alternatively, dont ride a $2000 bike.

[The Pastor]

So i just rang NAC, and they said they would only pay out market rates. and that i would have to settle this through court. Which is what i thought.

[The Pastor]

Why would the insurance company spend more repairing your bike than what it is currently worth? Insurance companies arent there to be a charity.

Alternatively, dont ride a $2000 bike.

noooo, its not about the insurance company being a charity. Its about me being out of pocket due to someone else.

Lets put it this way, you have a bike worth 4k, you spend 10k on modifications. Dickhead crashes into you. Not your fault. Who pays.

[The Pastor]

So you're an uninsured party?

Get a lawyer.

yep thats what I would think, but you would take the dickhead, NOT the insurance company to court?

then he would be like WTF, I pay insurance to cover me for 3rd party wtf am i doing in court?

Its pretty scary how im at risk due to other people.

[baffa]

That's not entirely true. Before going through the drama of court, you have a few other steps you can follow.

If you are unhappy with a claim, first you should complain to the claims manager, and if not resolved from there, you should seek the help of an Insurance Ombudsman.

They are a neutral party who will hear both sides (you and NAC) and decide an outcome. Ps: The insurance company has to pay for their services.

Although in your case there is a big disparity between what you want and what the Insurance company seems realistic, this is the best option.

[English Kiwi]

Why would the insurance company spend more repairing your bike than what it is currently worth? Insurance companies arent there to be a charity.

Alternatively, dont ride a $2000 bike.

+1

I work for an Insurance company, unless he arranges a Buy Back clause in his contract...it'll go to the wreckers!

[Oscar]

yep thats what I would think, but you would take the dickhead, NOT the insurance company to court?

then he would be like WTF, I pay insurance to cover me for 3rd party wtf am i doing in court?

Its pretty scary how im at risk due to other people.

You have a go at Mr. Head, and he runs screaming to his insurers.
He subrugates his rights to the insurer.

[Oscar]

That's not entirely true. Before going through the drama of court, you have a few other steps you can follow.

If you are unhappy with a claim, first you should complain to the claims manager, and if not resolved from there, you should seek the help of an Insurance Ombudsman.

They are a neutral party who will hear both sides (you and NAC) and decide an outcome. Ps: The insurance company has to pay for their services.

Although in your case there is a big disparity between what you want and what the Insurance company seems realistic, this is the best option.

He's not insured.
He doesn't have to do what the insurer says, he can sue them directly if he wants.

[The Pastor]

That's not entirely true. Before going through the drama of court, you have a few other steps you can follow.

If you are unhappy with a claim, first you should complain to the claims manager, and if not resolved from there, you should seek the help of an Insurance Ombudsman.

They are a neutral party who will hear both sides (you and NAC) and decide an outcome. Ps: The insurance company has to pay for their services.

Although in your case there is a big disparity between what you want and what the Insurance company seems realistic, this is the best option.

All i want is my vehicle repaired, don't want money/pay out. and if they do pay out, why do I have to buy back my vehicle just cos someone crashed into it.

and i'm aware of the different steps, but i'm picking that this scenario would easily end up in court.

[baffa]

Modifications make it tricker.

A $2000 bike with a $1000 exhaust doesnt make it worth $3000. But the insurance company should be able to prove your bike is only worth $2000.

Maybe you'll have to let them write it off then buy back the wreck and strip the parts?

[The Pastor]

You have a go at Mr. Head, and he runs screaming to his insurers.
He subrugates his rights to the insurer.

I'm not sure what you are saying here, are you saying I should or should not take the mr head to court?

[The Pastor]

Modifications make it tricker.

A $2000 bike with a $1000 exhaust doesnt make it worth $3000. But the insurance company should be able to prove your bike is only worth $2000.

Maybe you'll have to let them write it off then buy back the wreck and strip the parts?

Why should I have to do that, I don't want to do the work on repairing the bike, It was perfectly fine until dickhead crashed into it.

is it unreasonable to want ur bike repaired?

[Oscar]

I'm not sure what you are saying here, are you saying I should or should not take the mr head to court?

If you want to put maximum pressure on the insurer in question, pester Mr. head, who will scream blue murder to his insurers.

Ring him, e-mail and write to him saying you consider him responsible for the damage and you are not happy with what you're being offered.

I'm not sure using a lawyer for an amount of this size is economical, so consider using the disputes tribunal.

[dogsnbikes]

All very well if the one who crash's into you is insured.....but what if they have no insurance??? Then its off too the courts and could cost more than you expected...

personally if you don't have insurance,you should have enough funds in reserve too repair your bike back too orignal or find and identical replacement...

But what if its you thats in the wrong and have too pay for someone else's property?? then what are you going too do???

[Maha]

I dont like insurance.

BUT, this has been on my mind for a while.

If someone crashes into my $2,000 bike, and dose $7,000 damage. Can I force their insurance to repair rather than replace it?

$7,000? thats a big dose of anything which ever way you look at it...:corn:

[The Pastor]

If you want to put maximum pressure on the insurer in question, pester Mr. head, who will scream blue murder to his insurers.

Ring him, e-mail and write to him saying you consider him responsible for the damage and you are not happy with what you're being offered.

I'm not sure using a lawyer for an amount of this size is economical, so consider using the disputes tribunal.

tbh, i hope i'm never in this situation, but i'm thinking about my unfinished project bike.

if I did lawyer up, surely i could claim this cost as well?

the big problem is, I cant have insurance. If i did get insurance, they would write the bike off (as per my contract with them), and i'm down my bike, well i would have to buy it back and do the work myself, but why would I have to? if i want it repaired to the same standard i'd be out of pocket!

[Indiana_Jones]

It'd be you and the insurance company in court rather than the other party.

Otherwise what's the point of him paying for bloody insurance?

-Indy

[The Pastor]

All very well if the one who crash's into you is insured.....but what if they have no insurance??? Then its off too the courts and could cost more than you expected...

personally if you don't have insurance,you should have enough funds in reserve too repair your bike back too orignal or find and identical replacement...

But what if its you thats in the wrong and have too pay for someone else's property?? then what are you going too do???

3rd party only. or just pay for the repairs.

[The Pastor]

It'd be you and the insurance company in court rather than the other party.

Otherwise what's the point of him paying for bloody insurance?

-Indy

I have no contract with the insurance company?

[Indiana_Jones]

But what if its you thats in the wrong and have too pay for someone else's property?? then what are you going too do???

+1

See too many kids driving/riding without insurance and when asked what happens if you crash into a $100,000 Jag, they reply "oh but if he can afford that he'll have insurance too, duh". Of course they fail to remember that his insurance is gonna want their cash back.....

3rd party isn't that much really.

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

I have no contract with the insurance company?

No, but you want to take him to court. The insurance company represents him.

The idea being he's off-loaded the problem from himself to the insurance company.

-Indy

[baffa]

You need to insure your bike for full cover, and arrange an agreed value that includes the modifications. This is possible with cars, so I imagine they can do it with bikes, but your premiums would be reasonably high.

Then if someone hits you, you can claim with your insurer, and they will deal with the other party's insurer.

And once again, court should only be considered after using an Ombudsman.

[The Pastor]

No, but you want to take him to court. The insurance company represents him.

The idea being he's off-loaded the problem from himself to the insurance company.

-Indy

How can I take someone I have no contract with to court?

[The Pastor]

You need to insure your bike for full cover, and arrange an agreed value that includes the modifications. This is possible with cars, so I imagine they can do it with bikes, but your premiums would be reasonably high.

Then if someone hits you, you can claim with your insurer, and they will deal with the other party's insurer.

And once again, court should only be considered after using an Ombudsman.

you don't understand, i don't want money, i want repaired bike. NO insurance company will have a repair only contract with a customer.

[baffa]

you don't understand, i don't want money, i want repaired bike. NO insurance company will have a repair only contract with a customer.

I do understand. What you're asking for will not happen.

Unless you are have insurance yourself that matches the terms you expect.

Lets say I am insured with Company A, and you have no cover.
If I hit you, Company A will repair your bike as long as the repairs arent worth more than roughly 80% the value of the bike, whereupon they will write it off.

Second option, you have full cover with Company B, and they have agreed to insure your bike your way. So lets say it was a $2000 bike with $8000 modifications, and you and them have agreed to insure it for a total of let's say $8000.
I crash into you, and instead of Company A writing off your bike, you claim with your company B, and the bike is repaired, and they claim the costs from Company A.

My insurance company has no responsibility to you other than torepair your bike if it is near or over the market value for your model. Their priority is to look after me, their customer.

As far as im concerned, unless you have insurance yourself, at fault or not, you dont really have a leg to stand on.

Hope this helps

[The Pastor]

I do understand. What you're asking for will not happen.

Unless you are have insurance yourself that matches the terms you expect.

Lets say I am insured with Company A, and you have no cover.
If I hit you, Company A will repair your bike as long as the repairs arent worth more than roughly 80% the value of the bike, whereupon they will write it off.

Second option, you have full cover with Company B, and they have agreed to insure your bike your way. So lets say it was a $2000 bike with $8000 modifications, and you and them have agreed to insure it for a total of let's say $8000.
I crash into you, and instead of Company A writing off your bike, you claim with your company B, and the bike is repaired, and they claim the costs from Company A.

My insurance company has no responsibility to you other than torepair your bike if it is near or over the market value for your model. Their priority is to look after me, their customer.

As far as im concerned, unless you have insurance yourself, at fault or not, you dont really have a leg to stand on.

Hope this helps

so i'd be out of pocket due to your actions?

[Indiana_Jones]

How can I take someone I have no contract with to court?

It's not about contracts between you and the other parties insurance.

He has paid his insurance and claim to his company. In effect they have brought the problem off him. So you now deal with them instead of him.

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

so i'd be out of pocket due to your actions?

Pretty much

I got left with nothing after a drunk hit me as I only had 3rd party and his insurance wouldn't pay as he was pissed.

I didn't chase the matter up as I had sold the bike on, so can't comment if I had any course of action to follow.

-Indy

[Ender EnZed]

How can I take someone I have no contract with to court?

You have no contract with Mr. Dickhead either.

I'm no insurance expert but I would imagine your best bet would be to go apeshit at the insurance company (saying that replacement would cost $7k not $2k) and hope you meet someone up their foodchain who just wants rid of you.

[The Pastor]

You have no contract with Mr. Dickhead either.

I'm no insurance expert but I would imagine your best bet would be to go apeshit at the insurance company (saying that replacement would cost $7k not $2k) and hope you meet someone up their foodchain who just wants rid of you.

you dont get it, I dont want replacement.

and no I don't have a contract with mr dickhead, but the accident was mr dickheads fault, there for its up to HIM to pay it. How he pays is 100% up to him. (i.e., try and get his insurance to pay)

[Ender EnZed]

you dont get it, I dont want replacement.


You want a bike that's the same as you had before it got hit, not just the same year and model. Use a different word if you want. Maybe argue that it can't be replaced and as such it needs to be repaired.

[Scuba_Steve]

you dont get it, I dont want replacement.



Maybe argue that it can't be replaced and as such it needs to be repaired.

I have a feeling that can & has been done? but I would have a feeling it is no small fight, be prepared for a decent court battle.
Maybee search it out I do have a feeling a women in NZ did just that??? but it took a High court and a long time to achieve.

Of course I could be imagining it all too, insanity does that to you...

[DEATH_INC.]

I get what you are saying. How can his insurance company write off your bike? They don't own it. He doesn't own it. You have no agreement with anyone for them to take it from you. All you are asking is for it to be returned to it's original state. I think you could beat it, with the right lawyer.

[DMNTD]

you dont get it, I dont want replacement.

and no I don't have a contract with mr dickhead, but the accident was mr dickheads fault, there for its up to HIM to pay it. How he pays is 100% up to him. (i.e., try and get his insurance to pay)

What you don't get is that I want to win 1st division Lotto :woohoo:

Right...somehow try and accept that you would not get your bike repaired to its current state due to a few bollixy pooh things if the damage is more than just 'minor'. Sadly it is simply just the way it is...accept it or go to court with the 'offender's' insurance company and I can assure you that their lawyers are employed to do their utmost to ensure that you do not win....this is a fact, please move on.
I do recommend that you have your bike assessed by a motorcycle shop as soon as you're able. This would help with your insurance if you have any 'issues' in the future. I recommend that you do this say every 6-12 months.
I do also recommend that in your situation, that you choose to get yourself FULL insurance to remedy the potential of the proposed situation that you have mentioned.
Attempt to get an agreement with your insurance company as to what your bike is worth. This will required you getting at least one (prolly 2) assessments by bike shops for its market value.
Fuck it...need to re-fill my bourbon...

[The Pastor]

What you don't get is that I want to win 1st division Lotto :woohoo:

Right...somehow try and accept that you would not get your bike repaired to its current state due to a few bollixy pooh things if the damage is more than just 'minor'. Sadly it is simply just the way it is...accept it or go to court with the 'offender's' insurance company and I can assure you that their lawyers are employed to do their utmost to ensure that you do not win....this is a fact, please move on.
I do recommend that you have your bike assessed by a motorcycle shop as soon as you're able. This would help with your insurance if you have any 'issues' in the future. I recommend that you do this say every 6-12 months.
I do also recommend that in your situation, that you choose to get yourself FULL insurance to remedy the potential of the proposed situation that you have mentioned.
Attempt to get an agreement with your insurance company as to what your bike is worth. This will required you getting at least one (prolly 2) assessments by bike shops for its market value.
Fuck it...need to re-fill my bourbon...


You dont get it,

If i Had full insurance, and I wanted to claim on that full insurance (although at a non at fault accident, my insurance doesn't really come into it), then my bike would be doomed to the scrap heap. For no fault of my own.

Let me put it this way, what if i was riding the last ever britton, or the 1st ever harley, or a bike that has 1million times infinity non monetary value, dose the bike just get scraped?

[The Pastor]

I get what you are saying. How can his insurance company write off your bike? They don't own it. He doesn't own it. You have no agreement with anyone for them to take it from you. All you are asking is for it to be returned to it's original state. I think you could beat it, with the right lawyer.

Yeah you understand, :yes: Is it unfair to ask them to fix my bike to pre accident condition? I really cant see how it is unfair, but everyone, including NAC insurance seem to think so.

[sleemanj]

Forget that the insurance company exists.

If no insurance company existed in the situation what would you do.

You would get quotes to fix your vehicle to the standard to which you are satisfied, multiple quotes, at least 3. You would then present these quotes to Mr D. Head. And you would tell him, pick one, and give me the money.

If he doesn't give you the money, then you start legal proceedings, depending on the value probably just in the Disputes Tribunal for starters (this will cost you a small amount, you can NOT add it onto the claim).

Ok, so that's what you'd do with no insurance company involved. With an insurance company involved, what you do, is exactly the same, if Mr Head wants to take the quotes to his insurers then fine, if Mr Head wants to bring his insurers to the Disputes Tribunal then fine, but you have a disagreement with Mr Head, that he is asking his insurers to resolve it is nothing to do with you.

[thepom]

And of course you have informed your insurance company of all modifications carried out....:eek5:

[The Pastor]

And of course you have informed your insurance company of all modifications carried out....:eek5:

I don't have insurance....... was this not clear, or is the quota of idiots on kb increasing?

[thepom]

errrrr.....increasing?....am I correct????

[baffa]

I get what you are saying. How can his insurance company write off your bike? They don't own it. He doesn't own it. You have no agreement with anyone for them to take it from you. All you are asking is for it to be returned to it's original state. I think you could beat it, with the right lawyer.

Sounds like a great plan. I can't see any flaw in that logic. :Pokey:

[baffa]

God after re-reading this, the amount of stupid is painful.

No wonder people dont like Insurance companies, they're too thick to understand them.

[sinned]

There is just one thing you need to know: "life's a bitch and then you're dead". So why don't you buy another bike and go for a ride?

[BMWST?]

and of course you have recepits for the parts and modifications that make your bike 7000 more than the normal market value.A Britten or original harley would not be uninsured,and the actual value would be an agreed ammmount.

[Jantar]

RM, As you are not insured, you have no obligation to deal with Mr Head's insurance company. Write to Mr Head and expalin that any dealings he may have with his insurance Co are his business and not yours.

Get some quotes to repair your bike and pass these quotes on to Mr Head. Give him the option of paying to repair your bike, or replace it with a similar make/model with exactly the same modifications and paintwork.

[Murray]

I don't have insurance....... was this not clear, or is the quota of idiots on kb increasing?

IMHO not having insurance adds you to that quota

[thepom]

+ one......:bash:

[The Pastor]

IMHO not having insurance adds you to that quota
. why

[The Pastor]

and of course you have recepits for the parts and modifications that make your bike 7000 more than the normal market value.A Britten or original harley would not be uninsured,and the actual value would be an agreed ammmount.

Im not wanting money.

[The Pastor]

God after re-reading this, the amount of stupid is painful.

No wonder people dont like Insurance companies, they're too thick to understand them.

care to share your insight?

[BMWST?]

. why

you might run into the only road registered Britten....

[The Pastor]

you might run into the only road registered Britten....

I could have 3d party. Or I could have some money in the bank.

[The Pastor]

I know its a hard concept to grasp, but im surprised this thread has gone on for as long as it has.

[BMWST?]

Im not wanting money.

i can read quite well thankyou.How can you possible prove to any 3rd part y that your bike is worth 7000 more than market value without some proof of that added value?

[BMWST?]

I could have 3d party. Or I could have some money in the bank.

3rd party is insurance

[The Pastor]

i can read quite well thankyou.How can you possible prove to any 3rd part y that your bike is worth 7000 more than market value without some proof of that added value?


<img src="http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-troll-or-stupid-thumb.jpg">

[The Pastor]

3rd party is insurance

really? I did not know that, thank you so much for pointing out that 3rd party insurance is insurance.

[The Pastor]

Ok, BMW dude. Ima bite.

I know you are probably old, as you have BMW as ur name, and you ride a BMW, probably in yousillys.

I'm talking about a non at fault accident, that being someone else crashing into me.

I would not be making a claim on my insurance (if I had any) as it is the other guys fault.

This is about me losing my bike due to someone else.

Edit, to answer your question, i'm not wanting money, i'm wanting a bike in a repair shop getting fixed (the guy/insurance company can choose whoever they want, doesn't bother me) and they send the bill to him (and i think that his insurance should pay it :) ) just as long as it comes back in reasonable condition. I don't give a flying monkeys ass if the repair costs $200, $5000 or $7000, but it must be of a professional standard.

[Captain_Salty]

i think what you want is totally reasonable, but if Mr Head has no insurance or money then you'll never get your repairs anyway. so you really need your own insurance to protect yourself from all the dickheads out there. it sucks but that's life

[BMWST?]

Ok, BMW dude. Ima bite.

I know you are probably old, as you have BMW as ur name, and you ride a BMW, probably in yousillys.

I'm talking about a non at fault accident, that being someone else crashing into me.

I would not be making a claim on my insurance (if I had any) as it is the other guys fault.

This is about me losing my bike due to someone else.

Edit, to answer your question, i'm not wanting money, i'm wanting a bike in a repair shop getting fixed (the guy/insurance company can choose whoever they want, doesn't bother me) and they send the bill to him (and i think that his insurance should pay it :) ) just as long as it comes back in reasonable condition. I don't give a flying monkeys ass if the repair costs $200, $5000 or $7000, but it must be of a professional standard.

thanks for clearing that up for me,I understand now.

[The Pastor]

i think what you want is totally reasonable, but if Mr Head has no insurance or money then you'll never get your repairs anyway. so you really need your own insurance to protect yourself from all the dickheads out there. it sucks but that's life

I understand that, my original concern was the insurance companies policy. Which i understand now. (rang NAC, and from this thread). I understand that they will only payout market value.

I also understand that I don't have to accept, and if i'm not happy with the offer of a payout, then I have the option of going to court. I'm told this is called a Tort.

Obviously going to court is going to cost big $$. I would need a lawyer, time off work and alot of booze to help with the stress.

Edit, If i ever get in this situation, i would be tempted to try a court battle, just for fun.

[short-circuit]

RM I can't advise you of the likelihood of you getting the outcome you're after (hypothetically) but I totally understand your line of thought, and yes I think the quota of idiots is at an all time high...most entertaining :corn:

[The Pastor]

RM I can't advise you of the likelihood of you getting the outcome you're after (hypothetically) but I totally understand your line of thought, and yes I think the quota of idiots is at an all time high...most entertaining :corn:

yeah, i think the same thing, I would really like to see this played out in court.

[tigertim20]

noooo, its not about the insurance company being a charity. Its about me being out of pocket due to someone else.

Lets put it this way, you have a bike worth 4k, you spend 10k on modifications. Dickhead crashes into you. Not your fault. Who pays.

just because you spend 10k on a 4k bike, doesnt mean the bike is worth 14k. It means youre a retard if you went to all that effort and didnt insure it.

Youll get paid market value.
you MIGHT also get the option to buy the wreck back as well.

Deal with it.

[The Pastor]

just because you spend 10k on a 4k bike, doesnt mean the bike is worth 14k. It means youre a retard if you went to all that effort and didnt insure it.

Youll get paid market value.
you MIGHT also get the option to buy the wreck back as well.

Deal with it.

when the rubber duck did i lose ownership of MY bike?

[tigertim20]

when the rubber duck did i lose ownership of MY bike?

insurance is a business. they make an offer, you haggle a bit, and you eventually end up wiping your chin and walking away.
write off payouts are basically them purchasing your bike based on its value pre collision, they then own it, and can opt to offer to sell you the wreck if they want.

No court in the country is going to award you 7k for something worth 2k.

So you can either take the offer and walk away, OR say no, keep your bike and end up with nothing.

[imdying]

<img src="http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-troll-or-stupid-thumb.jpg">To be fair, he makes a good point, one that you will absolutely need to accept and run with if you plan to get anywhere. Get some pre accident valuations done by reputable bike shows, troll TradeMe for similar vehicles, whatever.

Without being able to demonstrate to the adjudicator at the Disputes Tribunal (for that's where you're going to end up) that it's worth what you claim you're basically fucked.

I know where you're coming from... my SV owes me a lot more than I will ever get for it if I'm put in your situation. I've mitigated that risk slightly by getting it valued and insurance agreed to that value, but I'd still be out of pocket if I place a claim and accept that value. My only other recourse in your situation would be exactly the same as you, valuations in hand and off to the Disputes Tribunal.

Shit situation, but that's the deal with modified vehicles. Ghey, but HTH.

[The Pastor]

To be fair, he makes a good point, one that you will absolutely need to accept and run with if you plan to get anywhere. Get some pre accident valuations done by reputable bike shows, troll TradeMe for similar vehicles, whatever.

Without being able to demonstrate to the adjudicator at the Disputes Tribunal (for that's where you're going to end up) that it's worth what you claim you're basically fucked.

I know where you're coming from... my SV owes me a lot more than I will ever get for it if I'm put in your situation. I've mitigated that risk slightly by getting it valued and insurance agreed to that value, but I'd still be out of pocket if I place a claim and accept that value. My only other recourse in your situation would be exactly the same as you, valuations in hand and off to the Disputes Tribunal.

Shit situation, but that's the deal with modified vehicles. Ghey, but HTH.

I'm not claiming Anything?

[The Pastor]

But ok I'll bite. The value of the repair will be well known as his insurance company will of received 2 or 3 quotes to get this done when they "write off" my bike. That value is the amount of damage done to my bike.

[The Pastor]

insurance is a business. they make an offer, you haggle a bit, and you eventually end up wiping your chin and walking away.
write off payouts are basically them purchasing your bike based on its value pre collision, they then own it, and can opt to offer to sell you the wreck if they want.

No court in the country is going to award you 7k for something worth 2k.

So you can either take the offer and walk away, OR say no, keep your bike and end up with nothing.

Im not wanting 7k, I'm wanting the bike repaired to pre-accident condition, and the bill sent to who ever has to pay it.

And by god, if any one crashed into me, then tired to buy my bike, i'd tell them to shooooove it. Damage my bike, then take it off me? You've got to be kidding.

[FJRider]

when the rubber duck did i lose ownership of MY bike?

When you hand the bike to the insurance coy ... and say fix it. (make the claim)

[scumdog]

but its my bike, and I want it repaired.


They will write it off - why should they cough up $5,000 more than the bike is worth/insured for when they can write it off and hand you $2,000.

This IS real life, not a freakin kindergarden.....:facepalm:

[short-circuit]

Unbelieveable. Did either of the two previous posters read the thread? :brick:

1. RM isn't talking about making a claim - he is the uninsured (but not at fault) party.

2. The insurance co representing the other party has no power to 'write off' RM's bike - the insurance company simply has to pay for the damage done by their client surely.


The other party however is obliged (if they are found to be at fault) to compensate the $2000 bike with the $5000 worth of mods (as they are responsible for that damage).....Yes....?

[sinned]

They will write it off - why should they cough up $5,000 more than the bike is worth/insured for when they can write it off and hand you $2,000.

This IS real life, not a freakin kindergarden.....:facepalm:

This is KB Kindergarten. It provides me with so much entertainment.


Unbelieveable. Did either of the two previous posters read the thread? :brick:

1. RM isn't talking about making a claim - he is the uninsured (but not at fault) party.

2. The insurance co representing the other party has no power to 'write off' RM's bike - the insurance company simply has to pay for the damage done by their client surely.

The other party however is obliged (if they are found to be at fault) to compensate the $2000 bike with the $5000 worth of mods (as they are responsible for that damage.....Yes....?
Actually not Yes but NO. Just because someone sunk a whole lot of cash into a black hole - bike, boat, bach, other loss making investments! doesn't make it worth the total spent. A legal test that will be applied is the "Reasonable Person" test; ie what would a reasonable person determine was appropriate. Market value is pretty much the test that a reasonable person would consider fair.

[short-circuit]

Actually not Yes but NO. Just because someone sunk a whole lot of cash into a black hole - bike, boat, bach, other loss making investments! doesn't make it worth the total spent. A legal test that will be applied is the "Reasonable Person" test; ie what would a reasonable person determine was appropriate. Market value is pretty much the test that a reasonable person would consider fair.

He doesn't have a market value contract with an insurance company (though the at fault party might).

He wants the bike rebuilt to spec - not a pay out. ie: Strip the broken bits, straighten said bike out or replace with OEM parts, and replace the aftermarket goodies Harris pipe, Ohlins shock, rizoma rear sets etc etc etc

FFS it's not that hard is it?

[short-circuit]

This is KB Kindergarten. It provides me with so much entertainment.

You'd enjoy it more if you had primary school level comprehension skills (then you might understand some of the topics at hand)

[LBD]

They will write it off - why should they cough up $5,000 more than the bike is worth/insured for when they can write it off and hand you $2,000.

Mr Heads insurer cannot write off what they have no legal claim to... Mr Head is obliged to cover costs incurred as he is the at fault party...If Mr Head wants to claim via his insurance company that is for him to consider...no?

I would love to see some authoritive posts from insurers on this subject, (I know you are watching) ....because taking this another step...

What would happen if both parties were insured, but the bikes owner knowss if he hands the matter to his own insurer to claim, they can then (contractually between them and the bike owner) be able to force a "market value" settlement on the bike owner, who is victim of anothers fault. In which case, he may choose not notify his insurer, but opts instead to persue compensation for the bikes "improved" value which may be above the market value...although there would be some effort involved to substantiate the improved value.

Can of worms this one, IMO

[The Pastor]

When you hand the bike to the insurance coy ... and say fix it. (make the claim)

I dont think I am making a claim, the guy who crashed intome would be the one making a claim

[The Pastor]

Mr Heads insurer cannot write off what they have no legal claim to... Mr Head is obliged to cover costs incurred as he is the at fault party...If Mr Head wants to claim via his insurance company that is for him to consider...no?

I would love to see some authoritive posts from insurers on this subject, (I know you are watching) ....because taking this another step...

What would happen if both parties were insured, but the bikes owner knowss if he hands the matter to his own insurer to claim, they can then (contractually between them and the bike owner) be able to force a "market value" settlement on the bike owner, who is victim of anothers fault. In which case, he may choose not notify his insurer, but opts instead to persue compensation for the bikes "improved" value which may be above the market value...although there would be some effort involved to substantiate the improved value.

Can of worms this one, IMO

Yeah I think you are one of about 5 people who understand, It could be my shocking communication skills, but i think this one is a tricky one to comprehend.

The value would be easy to substantiate, take it to a certified repairer, in this case I'd recommend someone like f1 engineering, because they have done some of the work on my bike, and they have the skills to fix it, but who ever fixes it doesn't matter, they will put a quote on for the work, and that would be the "value" of the bike.

The insurance scum have agreements with each other, that say we will fix our guys damage, you fix yours. Its called knock for knock. That is where both parties will get payed out market value, even though you only have an agreement with your insurance scum to write off the bike if you make a claim with them.

[FJRider]

I dont think I am making a claim, the guy who crashed intome would be the one making a claim

Then you hand details of HIS insurance coy to YOURS ... who chase THEM for costs of repair ... Once a claim is made ...by either insurance coy ... it's out of your hands ... and it is either repaired ... or payout at agreed insured value (minus depreciation)

Keeping vehicle at it's market value insured rate is a good idea ... as if you are paying for an insured value of say $6000 and the market value is $2500 ... likelyhood is ... you get $2500 on write-off ...

[short-circuit]

Give up RM honestly...

[The Pastor]

I've just re read my posts, and i'm not trying to offend anyone, but I have posted offensively, so i apologize.

I'm just arguing the case out infront of the kb jury, because it will get argued in court.

The main argument is, that to me my bike is worth a sentimental amount, it has no value., to the market its worth $2,000, and its replacement (repair) value is $7,000.

Who pays what.

At the end of the day, as been mentioned here before, a judges job is to award judgment based on what is fair and reasonable.

Now my argument would be simple, Before the accident i had a Primo bike that i LOVED.

Now i don't have it, and would like it back.

Is it fair and reasonable, for the damage that was done, to be repaired?

Now think of this, if they pay out $2,000 market value, and i buy the bike (still WTF on this one :P) back for say $500, how the duck am I going to repair it for $1500, that doesn't even cover the cost of the exhausts :S

I think practically, I should re-vin the bike (kinda should really do that due to its mods) so it is no longer a cbr250rr, but as myname250rr (i.e., its a custom), that way they cant get a market value for it.

[The Pastor]

Then you hand details of HIS insurance coy to YOURS ... who chase THEM for costs of repair ... Once a claim is made ...by either insurance coy ... it's out of your hands ... and it is either repaired ... or payout at agreed insured value (minus depreciation)

Keeping vehicle at it's market value insured rate is a good idea ... as if you are paying for an insured value of say $6000 and the market value is $2500 ... likelyhood is ... you get $2500 on write-off ...

Read my reply about knock for knock,

And i don't have insurance.

and I don't trust the insurance scum with my bike, tbh.

[The Pastor]

Give up RM honestly...

I really want to talk to a lawyer about this, but that cost $$

[Jantar]

Then you hand details of HIS insurance coy to YOURS ... ......
Trev, RM is NOT insured. He has no insurance company. Therefore he has the right to chase the other driver directly.

[Indiana_Jones]

I really want to talk to a lawyer about this, but that cost $$

citizens advice bureau? :D

-Indy

[short-circuit]

Trev, RM is NOT insured. He has no insurance company. Therefore he has the right to chase the other driver directly.

That's the second time he's been told in the last two pages and that point's been made constantly throughout the entire thread....

and still :corn:

[FJRider]

Trev, RM is NOT insured. He has no insurance company. Therefore he has the right to chase the other driver directly.

I just love it when "rights" are mentioned ... :killingme

If he spoke to a lawyer ... and has a reasonabe case ... and the alledged guilty party CAN afford to pay costs ... (ie: has money) The mere threat of court action may get his desired result ... (a nicely worded letter with a legal firm letterhead can get results)

[thepom]

That will teach you to get insurance and for blinging up a bike thats not worth the extra parts....:yes:

[scumdog]

Unbelieveable. Did either of the two previous posters read the thread? :brick:

1. RM isn't talking about making a claim - he is the uninsured (but not at fault) party.

2. The insurance co representing the other party has no power to 'write off' RM's bike - the insurance company simply has to pay for the damage done by their client surely.


" I dont like insurance.

BUT, this has been on my mind for a while.

If someone crashes into my $2,000 bike, and dose $7,000 damage. Can I force their insurance to repair rather than replace it? "


GENERALLY (and I guess we all to generalise to our detriment!) a statement as per above incidate the poster is (a) in that situation or (b) possibly trolling...less likely.

And sadly I was treating the post as a genuine question ("If somebody crashes into MY bike") from somebody who was in that situation but didn't want to admit it, common amongst younger one...

EDIT: And no, I hadn't read the whole thread before replying.

[The Pastor]

That will teach you to get insurance and for blinging up a bike thats not worth the extra parts....:yes:

actually if you understand what im asking, it would be advisable not to have insurance in this case.

and also, what a sad whingy old pom you are, I'm not allowed a bike that I want? duck off back to Russia you communist!

[The Pastor]

I just love it when "rights" are mentioned ... :killingme

If he spoke to a lawyer ... and has a reasonabe case ... and the alledged guilty party CAN afford to pay costs ... (ie: has money) The mere threat of court action may get his desired result ... (a nicely worded letter with a legal firm letterhead can get results)

One would hope so.

now imagine your in this situation, being taken to court and you have insurance.

If it were me being taken to court, and I did have insurance, I would be screaming blue bloody murder to everyone, the insurance scum, fair go, the news, anyone who would listen.

[The Pastor]

citizens advice bureau? :D

-Indy

The CAB do not give out legal advice, they get someone (lawyer) in once a week (Thursdays 7pm for birkenhead), to answer your questions, but you only get like 10-15mins with him, and i doubt hes an insurance lawyer.

[FJRider]

The CAB do not give out legal advice, they get someone (lawyer) in once a week (Thursdays 7pm for birkenhead), to answer your questions, but you only get like 10-15mins with him, and i doubt hes an insurance lawyer.

But you WOULD get 10-15 min's of good advise ...

[LBD]

duck off back to Russia you communist!::shit:
We dont want him...we are a budding democracy...:yes:

[The Pastor]

But you WOULD get 10-15 min's of good advise ...

but why would I go, this is kb! The place where everyone is an expert!

[FJRider]

but why would I go, this is kb! The place where everyone is an expert!

KB is where lawyers are trained ... :yes:

[MarkH]

2. The insurance co representing the other party has no power to 'write off' RM's bike - the insurance company simply has to pay for the damage done by their client surely.

Nope, they insurance company has to do no such thing.

They do have to offer fair compensation for the loss that the aggrieved party has suffered - which could mean offering to take the broken bike and give enough money to buy another bike similar to the pre-crash bike.

IF the bike was worth $2K and IF repairing it would cost $7K THEN paying $2K for the victim to buy another bike IS fair. That is what the insurance company would be offering to do.

[MarkH]

Yeah you understand, :yes: Is it unfair to ask them to fix my bike to pre accident condition? I really cant see how it is unfair, but everyone, including NAC insurance seem to think so.

If your bike is worth $2K and to repair it would cost $7K then there is no way you will get them to repair your bike - they will offer to pay for a replacement instead as it is uneconomical to repair it. You may want the bike repaired, but an insurance company does not see that option as financially feasible - a court is likely to agree with them.

The only way around it is to show that your bike is not worth $2K, i.e. you can't buy the same as what you had for $2K, therefore being paid $2K by the insurance company is not satisfactory. If you can show that getting the same as what you had would cost $7K in repairs or >$7K for another bike then you have a shot of getting satisfaction.

If you can show that buying another bike and adding the same mods to it would cost $6K and then agree to accept $6K + keep your broken bike then you could use $1K of your own money to cover the difference. It may seem unfair to you that you should be out of pocket by $1K, but in this example you are refusing what the insurance company would say is a fair offer and most likely the courts would agree with them.

If a new bike worth $18K would cost $24K in parts & labour to fix then most people wouldn't see it as being unreasonable of an insurance company to offer to buy the owner of the damaged bike a new bike as a fair compensation. This is the way the insurance companies work - they try to give you back what you had for the cheapest price.

If your bike has been damaged and you could buy another one that was pretty much the same for $2K then you just aren't being reasonable if you insist that the insurance company give you $7K so you can have it repaired. They are just going to say that it isn't worth $7K and therefore 'fuck you'.

[tigertim20]

Unbelieveable. Did either of the two previous posters read the thread? :brick:

1. RM isn't talking about making a claim - he is the uninsured (but not at fault) party.

2. The insurance co representing the other party has no power to 'write off' RM's bike - the insurance company simply has to pay for the damage done by their client surely.


The other party however is obliged (if they are found to be at fault) to compensate the $2000 bike with the $5000 worth of mods (as they are responsible for that damage).....Yes....?
bollocks. spending money on your bike does not necessarily increase its value. this is real life. would you pay 7k for a 2k bike with a bunch of mods just because the seller really really liked his bike? No, You wouldnt, youd pay what you thought it was worth, as supported by similar models and market conditions. If payouts were based on 'oh but ive done this, and this and this to it', then can you imagine how much more insurance fraud thered be?

They will write it off - why should they cough up $5,000 more than the bike is worth/insured for when they can write it off and hand you $2,000.

This IS real life, not a freakin kindergarden.....:facepalm:
exactly, no matter how much you desperately WANT it to be 'worth' more, the reality is different. Hug you mum, wipe away your tears, take your cheque for 2k and get over it.
In the future such things can be avoided by A) getting insurance so that you have someone to argue for you, and B) informing your insurance company of any mods,and discussing having these mods seperately insured and having it documented.

He doesn't have a market value contract with an insurance company (though the at fault party might).

He wants the bike rebuilt to spec - not a pay out. ie: Strip the broken bits, straighten said bike out or replace with OEM parts, and replace the aftermarket goodies Harris pipe, Ohlins shock, rizoma rear sets etc etc etc

FFS it's not that hard is it?

You are looking at this from an 'I want' angle rather than a 'this is the real world' angle.
A write off is an agreement by the insurance company to purchase the vehicle, based on its value pre accident.
its value pre accident was about 2k, regardless of how many hours, dollars, or virgins tears went into it.
They will offer to buy it at the cost of what it was worth if it was sold on the open market/trademe etc. its quite simple really!! its not about what you WANT, its about what is sensible and economical.

its not at all about whether he had a contract for its value, its about how much it was ACTUALLY worth, not how much, YOU feel its worth to YOU.

[tigertim20]

put it this way.
take a bike worth 2k.
buy the following:
carozzeria wheels for another 3k
exhaust system for 1k.

total money spent may be 6k, however, when you sell that bike on the market, its value WILL NOT be the total sum of all dollars spent.

What about that do you not understand, or is ''short circuit' more literal than humorous?:innocent:

[The Pastor]

If your bike is worth $2K and to repair it would cost $7K then there is no way you will get them to repair your bike - they will offer to pay for a replacement instead as it is uneconomical to repair it. You may want the bike repaired, but an insurance company does not see that option as financially feasible - a court is likely to agree with them.

The only way around it is to show that your bike is not worth $2K, i.e. you can't buy the same as what you had for $2K, therefore being paid $2K by the insurance company is not satisfactory. If you can show that getting the same as what you had would cost $7K in repairs or >$7K for another bike then you have a shot of getting satisfaction.

If you can show that buying another bike and adding the same mods to it would cost $6K and then agree to accept $6K + keep your broken bike then you could use $1K of your own money to cover the difference. It may seem unfair to you that you should be out of pocket by $1K, but in this example you are refusing what the insurance company would say is a fair offer and most likely the courts would agree with them.

If a new bike worth $18K would cost $24K in parts & labour to fix then most people wouldn't see it as being unreasonable of an insurance company to offer to buy the owner of the damaged bike a new bike as a fair compensation. This is the way the insurance companies work - they try to give you back what you had for the cheapest price.

If your bike has been damaged and you could buy another one that was pretty much the same for $2K then you just aren't being reasonable if you insist that the insurance company give you $7K so you can have it repaired. They are just going to say that it isn't worth $7K and therefore 'fuck you'.

Thanks for the reply, you sound like you know what your talking about.

So if someone dose $7,000 worth of damage, they only pay out $2,000.

I have actually spent like 14k on the bike :S So basically I just have to hope no one crashes into me, as I'd end up losing my bike.

[short-circuit]

bollocks. spending money on your bike does not necessarily increase its value. this is real life. would you pay 7k for a 2k bike with a bunch of mods just because the seller really really liked his bike? No, You wouldnt, youd pay what you thought it was worth, as supported by similar models and market conditions. If payouts were based on 'oh but ive done this, and this and this to it', then can you imagine how much more insurance fraud thered be?

exactly, no matter how much you desperately WANT it to be 'worth' more, the reality is different. Hug you mum, wipe away your tears, take your cheque for 2k and get over it.
In the future such things can be avoided by A) getting insurance so that you have someone to argue for you, and B) informing your insurance company of any mods,and discussing having these mods seperately insured and having it documented.


You are looking at this from an 'I want' angle rather than a 'this is the real world' angle.
A write off is an agreement by the insurance company to purchase the vehicle, based on its value pre accident.
its value pre accident was about 2k, regardless of how many hours, dollars, or virgins tears went into it.
They will offer to buy it at the cost of what it was worth if it was sold on the open market/trademe etc. its quite simple really!! its not about what you WANT, its about what is sensible and economical.

its not at all about whether he had a contract for its value, its about how much it was ACTUALLY worth, not how much, YOU feel its worth to YOU.

FFS. Firstly I am not arguing the worth of the bike.

AND again, how an insurnace company pays out customers in the event of an uneconomical loss is irrelevant as RM is not insured. His property (a blinged out 250) was damaged by the other insured party.

The other party is liable. Either Mr Head or his insurance company must compensate RM. The question is: If RM wants the bike repaired to original standard and with all the aftermerket parts (and the repair and sourcing of parts is possible), will the other party (or their insurer) be liable for the cost of doing this.

[The Pastor]

put it this way.
take a bike worth 2k.
buy the following:
carozzeria wheels for another 3k
exhaust system for 1k.

total money spent may be 6k, however, when you sell that bike on the market, its value WILL NOT be the total sum of all dollars spent.

What about that do you not understand, or is ''short circuit' more literal than humorous?:innocent:


yeah but in my head, I have built a bike (there is no stock parts on it left at all) and i have put years of work into in. YEARS. And what people are basically saying is that I could lose that, due to no fault of my own.

At any rate, I'd fight it every step of the way :)

[The Pastor]

If your bike is worth $2K and to repair it would cost $7K then there is no way you will get them to repair your bike - they will offer to pay for a replacement instead as it is uneconomical to repair it. You may want the bike repaired, but an insurance company does not see that option as financially feasible - a court is likely to agree with them.

The only way around it is to show that your bike is not worth $2K, i.e. you can't buy the same as what you had for $2K, therefore being paid $2K by the insurance company is not satisfactory. If you can show that getting the same as what you had would cost $7K in repairs or >$7K for another bike then you have a shot of getting satisfaction.

If you can show that buying another bike and adding the same mods to it would cost $6K and then agree to accept $6K + keep your broken bike then you could use $1K of your own money to cover the difference. It may seem unfair to you that you should be out of pocket by $1K, but in this example you are refusing what the insurance company would say is a fair offer and most likely the courts would agree with them.

If a new bike worth $18K would cost $24K in parts & labour to fix then most people wouldn't see it as being unreasonable of an insurance company to offer to buy the owner of the damaged bike a new bike as a fair compensation. This is the way the insurance companies work - they try to give you back what you had for the cheapest price.

If your bike has been damaged and you could buy another one that was pretty much the same for $2K then you just aren't being reasonable if you insist that the insurance company give you $7K so you can have it repaired. They are just going to say that it isn't worth $7K and therefore 'fuck you'.

Can I argue sentimental value?

[short-circuit]

put it this way.
take a bike worth 2k.
buy the following:
carozzeria wheels for another 3k
exhaust system for 1k.

total money spent may be 6k, however, when you sell that bike on the market, its value WILL NOT be the total sum of all dollars spent.

What about that do you not understand, or is ''short circuit' more literal than humorous?:innocent:

See my previous post downsy

[scumdog]

I have actually spent like 14k on the bike :S So basically I just have to hope no one crashes into me, as I'd end up losing my bike.

Insure it for an agreed value.

The premiums might cause your pulse-rate to increase particulalry if you're young and have colected a few tickets, had a crash or two...

And they would want it kept in a locked garage when not in use etc etc.

But a 14k bath when the bike caught fire and burned to ground or got flattened by a truck when it was parked would cause me bottom lip to quiver a tad...:gob:
u

[FJRider]

So if someone dose $7,000 worth of damage, they only pay out $2,000.



It may amuse you to learn ... I once did $5000 worth of damage to a $500 truck ... and I didn't pay a cent of that ... :facepalm:

Yep ... it was written off ... :killingme

[MarkH]

So if someone dose $7,000 worth of damage, they only pay out $2,000.

I have actually spent like 14k on the bike :S So basically I just have to hope no one crashes into me, as I'd end up losing my bike.

Is the bike truly worth only $2,000? If the insurance company paid you $2,000 could you buy another bike substantially the same as the one you had? If you could then it is fair for the insurance company to take your bike away and give you a cheque for $2,000 and say "sorry about our client breaking your bike, go buy yourself another".

But if I buy a 2nd hand SV650 for $5,000 and then put Ohlins shocks and Brembo brakes on it then surely I could argue that to get another SV650 of similar age and similar mileage with Ohlins shocks & Brembo brakes would cost me more than $5,000 and therefore I want enough money to replace EXACTLY what I had - make, model, age, mileage & accessories. If I could buy a 2nd hand bike that someone else had put the same shocks & brakes on for $6K then why should or would an insurance company give me more than that?


Can I argue sentimental value?

Well, you could - but insurance companies don't put a dollar value on sentimental value so they'll listen to your argument and then disagree with giving you any more money because of it.

Basically the insurance company is saying:
"our client broke your bike which would cost $2,000 for you to replace, sorry about that - here's $2,000 so that you can buy yourself another one".
They see that as fair, can you show in a court otherwise?

[short-circuit]

But if I buy a 2nd hand SV650 for $5,000 and then put Ohlins shocks and Brembo brakes on it then surely I could argue that to get another SV650 of similar age and similar mileage with Ohlins shocks & Brembo brakes would cost me more than $5,000 and therefore I want enough money to replace EXACTLY what I had - make, model, age, mileage & accessories. If I could buy a 2nd hand bike that someone else had put the same shocks & brakes on for $6K then why should or would an insurance company give me more than that?



Totally agree, but if those parts were mashed (as replaceing them would likely incur the biggest expense) I'd want the dollar value for those parts so I could replace them.

[The Pastor]

Is the bike truly worth only $2,000? If the insurance company paid you $2,000 could you buy another bike substantially the same as the one you had? If you could then it is fair for the insurance company to take your bike away and give you a cheque for $2,000 and say "sorry about our client breaking your bike, go buy yourself another".

But if I buy a 2nd hand SV650 for $5,000 and then put Ohlins shocks and Brembo brakes on it then surely I could argue that to get another SV650 of similar age and similar mileage with Ohlins shocks & Brembo brakes would cost me more than $5,000 and therefore I want enough money to replace EXACTLY what I had - make, model, age, mileage & accessories. If I could buy a 2nd hand bike that someone else had put the same shocks & brakes on for $6K then why should or would an insurance company give me more than that?



Well, you could - but insurance companies don't put a dollar value on sentimental value so they'll listen to your argument and then disagree with giving you any more money because of it.

Basically the insurance company is saying:
"our client broke your bike which would cost $2,000 for you to replace, sorry about that - here's $2,000 so that you can buy yourself another one".
They see that as fair, can you show in a court otherwise?

but that puts me at a loss, a real loss. That is unfair, and that would be the basis of my argument.

[DMNTD]

but that puts me at a loss, a real loss. That is unfair, and that would be the basis of my argument.

Sure it is (unfair)...unless you can negotiate an 'agreed value' on your bike (annually)with your insurance company, then you're buggered.

[MarkH]

but that puts me at a loss, a real loss. That is unfair, and that would be the basis of my argument.

IF you could buy another bike the same with the money that the insurance company paid you then how are you at a loss? If you can't get one the same then you would need to argue THAT point with the insurance company.
If you are talking purely about sentimental value then that is unfortunate, but insurance companies just aren't going to compensate you for loss of sentimental value.

[Jantar]

When I insured my bike I had to list all extras and modifications along with an estimate of the value of those extras and modications. I guess there is a reason that the insurance company wanted to know that information, but I can't quite imagine what that reason would be. :facepalm:

[Oscar]

When I insured my bike I had to list all extras and modifications along with an estimate of the value of those extras and modications. I guess there is a reason that the insurance company wanted to know that information, but I can't quite imagine what that reason would be. :facepalm:

Because it's germaine to the risk.

[Oscar]

Sure it is (unfair)...unless you can negotiate an 'agreed value' on your bike (annually)with your insurance company, then you're buggered.

Please try and keep up - his bike is not insured.
He's claiming from an insured (and presumably at fault) third party.

[DMNTD]

Please try and keep up - his bike is not insured.
He's claiming from an insured (and presumably at fault) third party.

Oh I can keep up, no problems there man. I simply just moved on that's all.
All I'm stating is that the only way to get around these situations is to have agreed value on your own bike otherwise pains will be felt.
Is that ok with you?

[Oscar]

Oh I can keep up, no problems there man. I simply just moved on that's all.
All I'm stating is that the only way to get around these situations is to have agreed value on your own bike otherwise pains will be felt.
Is that ok with you?


There aren't that many insurers offering agreed value and I'm picking that he wouldn't be able to get agreed value due to the nature of the modifications.

[DMNTD]

There aren't that many insurers offering agreed value and I'm picking that he wouldn't be able to get agreed value due to the nature of the modifications.

Correct there aren't that many that do offer it, but it is available.
Now then...coming to an agreement with the insurer as to what 'you' believe 'your' bike is worth with its' modifications is a whole new ball park...but it has been done, often.

[tigertim20]

yeah but in my head, I have built a bike (there is no stock parts on it left at all) and i have put years of work into in. YEARS. And what people are basically saying is that I could lose that, due to no fault of my own.

At any rate, I'd fight it every step of the way :)

Yup you could lose it all, but as for the no fault of your own - well, you COULD have insured it, that would have given you protection. If you fully insure, you can insure it for agreed value, OR, you could get the modifications insured seperately as well.

The lesson is that if you have a bike that you have put that much time and effort into, INSURE IT!

My mates bike was stolen yesterday, found in the otago harbour, had been underwater all night.
He had spent probably twice its value again on insurance through mods etc. He was fully insured, has agreed value, and he will come out of this Okay.
Neither your incident, nor his was your own fault, but he was insured, and had made explicitly sure that all of his mods were listed etc.

A shitty lesson to learn, but such is life

[Parlane]

Yup you could lose it all, but as for the no fault of your own - well, you COULD have insured it, that would have given you protection. If you fully insure, you can insure it for agreed value, OR, you could get the modifications insured seperately as well.

The lesson is that if you have a bike that you have put that much time and effort into, INSURE IT!

My mates bike was stolen yesterday, found in the otago harbour, had been underwater all night.
He had spent probably twice its value again on insurance through mods etc. He was fully insured, has agreed value, and he will come out of this Okay.
Neither your incident, nor his was your own fault, but he was insured, and had made explicitly sure that all of his mods were listed etc.

A shitty lesson to learn, but such is life

They obviously weren't going fast enough to skim the water. I blame rastuscat for his animated display picture on here for encouraging such attempts.

On topic note: I swear more than half the comments on here are from people who either didn't read or did not comprehend the original post.
The way I see it, if someone hits you. They have to pay to fix your stuff. It even includes your gear etc. So why can you not list your special non-market exhaust seperately?
I mean basically when they hit you this is what they are destroying:
CBR250 Main guts (stock - market value)
Smokeys Fun Times Exhaust 3.0 (aftermarket - aftermarket value)
Tyga Fairings (aftermarket - aftermarket value)

Etc. I would argue that yes the main part of the bike can have a market value. But the added parts are not stock, and the market value is for a stock bike. So they can be itemised seperately.

You prob won't get your 7k unless all the parts are 7k. It should be cheaper to get it all done at once? Unless your 7k doesn't include costs of fitment etc.

[The Pastor]

Yup you could lose it all, but as for the no fault of your own - well, you COULD have insured it, that would have given you protection. If you fully insure, you can insure it for agreed value, OR, you could get the modifications insured seperately as well.

The lesson is that if you have a bike that you have put that much time and effort into, INSURE IT!

My mates bike was stolen yesterday, found in the otago harbour, had been underwater all night.
He had spent probably twice its value again on insurance through mods etc. He was fully insured, has agreed value, and he will come out of this Okay.
Neither your incident, nor his was your own fault, but he was insured, and had made explicitly sure that all of his mods were listed etc.

A shitty lesson to learn, but such is life

yeah but thats talking about getting the money to buy a new bike, I dont want a new bike, i want my bike, I don't want the money, i just want it repaired. I don't want to do the work myself either.

[The Pastor]

IF you could buy another bike the same with the money that the insurance company paid you then how are you at a loss? If you can't get one the same then you would need to argue THAT point with the insurance company.
If you are talking purely about sentimental value then that is unfortunate, but insurance companies just aren't going to compensate you for loss of sentimental value.

its one of a kind, no other bike like it.

[The Pastor]

There aren't that many insurers offering agreed value and I'm picking that he wouldn't be able to get agreed value due to the nature of the modifications.

What are your thoughts Oscar?

[tigertim20]

yeah but thats talking about getting the money to buy a new bike, I dont want a new bike, i want my bike, I don't want the money, i just want it repaired. I don't want to do the work myself either.

read my post again.
yiou can insure the bike for XX dollars.
you can insure your mods seperately.
Bike gets fucked? sweet, you will often be able to replace the broken bits, because you have agreed value.

also, just because your aftermarket fairings cost you 2k a year ago, doesnt mean they are worth 2k NOW. You do need to account for depreciation, otherwise I could bin my 01R1, and get a 2011 as replacement . . . (I wish!)

having said that, you are still mixing reality with 'i want'
i can understand the WANT to get you bike back as it was, but more often than not, that isnt the reality. Market value is not always the ideal system, because it doesnt take into account the personal value on an item, alas, it is the only system we have and you got to accept that.

Oh, when it comes to a payout based on market value - as it invariably will - youll find they say 'we think its value was XXX' and attempt to offer you a cheque for that amount. if you disagree with that value (as I did when I got munched by a car and my bike written off) you cansay 'fuck you arsehole' then you go down to a bikeshop you know, that knows your bike, and have them do an official valuation. you take that valuation back to the insurance company, and you renegotiate. If you are unable to reach a settlement, it will go to court, thoughI warn you, if you go to court, you will likely end up withless than their previous best offer,and of course youll have to factor in the cost of time off worl, legal costs, and stress etc.

[The Pastor]

read my post again.
yiou can insure the bike for XX dollars.
you can insure your mods seperately.
Bike gets fucked? sweet, you will often be able to replace the broken bits, because you have agreed value.

also, just because your aftermarket fairings cost you 2k a year ago, doesnt mean they are worth 2k NOW. You do need to account for depreciation, otherwise I could bin my 01R1, and get a 2011 as replacement . . . (I wish!)

having said that, you are still mixing reality with 'i want'
i can understand the WANT to get you bike back as it was, but more often than not, that isnt the reality. Market value is not always the ideal system, because it doesnt take into account the personal value on an item, alas, it is the only system we have and you got to accept that.

Oh, when it comes to a payout based on market value - as it invariably will - youll find they say 'we think its value was XXX' and attempt to offer you a cheque for that amount. if you disagree with that value (as I did when I got munched by a car and my bike written off) you cansay 'fuck you arsehole' then you go down to a bikeshop you know, that knows your bike, and have them do an official valuation. you take that valuation back to the insurance company, and you renegotiate. If you are unable to reach a settlement, it will go to court, thoughI warn you, if you go to court, you will likely end up withless than their previous best offer,and of course youll have to factor in the cost of time off worl, legal costs, and stress etc.

the more I think about this, the more I want to keep the bike in the lounge.

the bitch of it is that I cant just go buy a new one, and if i got a pay out, I would still have to do the work all over again. That would take years. Years of me not having my bike, because of someone else.

and i doubt the payout will cover the repairs.

[MarkH]

its one of a kind, no other bike like it.

It doesn't matter - the insurance company will still want to put a dollar value on the bike so that they can decide which is cheaper, agreeing to give you $7K to repair it or saying "sorry it's a write off, here's $x,xxx to buy another bike of similar value".

How much would it cost to buy another bike and put the same mods on it?
If you went to a bike shop and asked them what it would cost to replicate what you have then what would that amount be? If you got a written quote for making another the same then you could use that in the event of making a claim against a 3rd parties insurance company for the damage they have done to your bike. It could be well worth your while getting a quote "just in case".

[The Pastor]

It doesn't matter - the insurance company will still want to put a dollar value on the bike so that they can decide which is cheaper, agreeing to give you $7K to repair it or saying "sorry it's a write off, here's $x,xxx to buy another bike of similar value".

How much would it cost to buy another bike and put the same mods on it?
If you went to a bike shop and asked them what it would cost to replicate what you have then what would that amount be? If you got a written quote for making another the same then you could use that in the event of making a claim against a 3rd parties insurance company for the damage they have done to your bike. It could be well worth your while getting a quote "just in case".

Well I did most of the work myself, if I had to pay someone per hour to do it. Good lord that would be expensive.

[baffa]

I would love to see some authoritive posts from insurers on this subject, (I know you are watching) ....because taking this another step...


I did try, but RM doesnt seem to understand.



Trev, RM is NOT insured. He has no insurance company. Therefore he has the right to chase the other driver directly.

Once again, wrong. Insurance is there to cover your liability.

What it boils down to (again) is that if he had adequately insured his bike, he'd be in a much position.

[Gremlin]

the more I think about this, the more I want to keep the bike in the lounge.

the bitch of it is that I cant just go buy a new one, and if i got a pay out, I would still have to do the work all over again. That would take years. Years of me not having my bike, because of someone else.

and i doubt the payout will cover the repairs.
:psst: That's why people insure their belongings. So you don't have to fuck around much, and it gets sorted.

[LBD]

What it boils down to (again) is that if he had adequately insured his bike, he'd be in a much position.

But would he?....managing the situation would be easier, definately.... but if he has a market value policy with his own insurer then the value of his claim against Mr head and his insurer may be limited?

[Jantar]

..Once again, wrong. Insurance is there to cover your liability.....

Once again, wrong. Insurance doesn't and never has, covered your liability, it just limits it. (Are you forgetting excess, market value, etc)

Don't forget that this is all hypothetical. RM hasn't crashed and doesn't intend to, he's just making sure he knows where he stands if such an event should happen.

I would agree that having comprehensive insurance is far better than being uninsured, and that is why I am always insured, and I have listed the bike's extra on the policy. However in the hypothetical case that RM is asking about, ie he is uninsured and Mr Dick Head severly damages his bike, what is his best option.

I maintain that legally the dispute is between RM and Mr Head. RM has no contractual agreement or obligation to deal with Mr Head's insurance company, and he can ask Mr Head to have his bike repaired to the same state it was prior to the accident, or to replace RM's bike with a similar make/model with the same extras, modifications and paint work.

Mr Head has an agreement with his insurance to let the insurance company handle it, but RM is not, and needs not, be party to that agreement. RM can take Mr Head to the disputes tribunal to get the matter sorted, or he can accept the insurance company's offer. RM would be better off to NOT deal with Mr Head's insurance.

[The Pastor]

:psst: That's why people insure their belongings. So you don't have to fuck around much, and it gets sorted.

for a bike you don't mind losing if the shit hits the fan, your correct, for a bike you really want to keep, well its a bit muddy on whats the best idea.

atm im thinking, register as custom bike, 3rd party insurance, and a savings plan to cover the cost of any of my own accidents.

[imdying]

What it boils down to (again) is that if he had adequately insured his bike, he'd be in a much position.No he would not. In fact he would be worse off. He would have spent his premium and have nothing to show for it. The insurance companies would reject his bike being worth $7000, so he would still be facing having to take the other guy to court to try to get a payment closer to what he values at, rather than what the market values it at.

[imdying]

Don't forget that this is all hypothetical. RM hasn't crashed and doesn't intend to, he's just making sure he knows where he stands if such an event should happen.Sorry, missed that... this is correct RM?

[The Pastor]

Once again, wrong. Insurance doesn't and never has, covered your liability, it just limits it. (Are you forgetting excess, market value, etc)

Don't forget that this is all hypothetical. RM hasn't crashed and doesn't intend to, he's just making sure he knows where he stands if such an event should happen.

I would agree that having comprehensive insurance is far better than being uninsured, and that is why I am always insured, and I have listed the bike's extra on the policy. However in the hypothetical case that RM is asking about, ie he is uninsured and Mr Dick Head severly damages his bike, what is his best option.

I maintain that legally the dispute is between RM and Mr Head. RM has no contractual agreement or obligation to deal with Mr Head's insurance company, and he can ask Mr Head to have his bike repaired to the same state it was prior to the accident, or to replace RM's bike with a similar make/model with the same extras, modifications and paint work.

Mr Head has an agreement with his insurance to let the insurance company handle it, but RM is not, and needs not, be party to that agreement. RM can take Mr Head to the disputes tribunal to get the matter sorted, or he can accept the insurance company's offer. RM would be better off to NOT deal with Mr Head's insurance.

and by registering it as a "renegade master 250" rather than a honda cbr 250, they wont be able to get a market value :)

[thepom]

And RM is doing a good impersonation of a whinging pom.:innocent:

[baffa]

I'm sorry guys, I clearly realise there were so many Insurance experts reading kiwibiker.

[Jantar]

I'm sorry guys, I clearly realise there were so many Insurance experts reading kiwibiker.

Sorry, for that misconception. The issue here is not an insurance one as the question was asked about someone who is uninsured having a not at fault accident.

[Ender EnZed]

and by registering it as a "renegade master 250" rather than a honda cbr 250, they wont be able to get a market value :)

It will still have a market value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_value). "Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting."

[Parlane]

It will still have a market value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_value). "Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting."

Is "market value" a law in New Zealand? Or something used by insurance companies to let you know how much they will cover you for when you insure with THEM?

I assume it's illegal to crash in to someone, and illegal to not then pay them for the damage? So what does the law actually say for reparation ? Isn't market value a keyword in the insurance business, not the law?

[The Pastor]

Is "market value" a law in New Zealand? Or something used by insurance companies to let you know how much they will cover you for when you insure with THEM?

I assume it's illegal to crash in to someone, and illegal to not then pay them for the damage? So what does the law actually say for reparation ? Isn't market value a keyword in the insurance business, not the law?

That is what I think.

[The Pastor]

It will still have a market value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_value). "Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting."

Yeah, but custom bikes on trademe go for 10's of thousands of $$ :D

[scumdog]

Yeah, but custom bikes on trademe go for 10's of thousands of $$ :D

ALL customs?

And do they all go for the asking price?

'Custom' you're bike may be to you but it might not appeal to many.

A raked-out chrome-bedecked custom painted Harley clone will go for top dollar- bigger market.

I suspect your bike would be in the 'personalised' rather than 'custom' catagory - but I might be blowing smoke out my arse (again you say!)

[The Pastor]

ALL customs?

And do they all go for the asking price?

'Custom' you're bike may be to you but it might not appeal to many.

A raked-out chrome-bedecked custom painted Harley clone will go for top dollar- bigger market.

I suspect your bike would be in the 'personalised' rather than 'custom' catagory - but I might be blowing smoke out my arse (again you say!)

well its not finished yet :)

but yeah i've "personlised" everything on the bike. Not one bit stock left. (well the most of the frame and tank is stock, but painted/ powder coated)
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201292&d=1269142917

[The Pastor]

well its not finished yet :)

but yeah i've "personlised" everything on the bike. Not one bit stock left. (well the most of the frame and tank is stock, but painted/ powder coated)
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201292&d=1269142917

And the number plate, that is stock.

[Parlane]

well its not finished yet :)

but yeah i've "personlised" everything on the bike. Not one bit stock left. (well the most of the frame and tank is stock, but painted/ powder coated)
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201292&d=1269142917
Fixed for you:

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=201292&d=1269142917" />