Cold Kiwi drink drivers, all 4 of them

[willytheekid]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10187724/riders-caught-over-drink-drive-limit-after-rally

4 (out of 600+ motorcyclists) leaving the cold Kiwi done for drink driving :facepalm:

Good to see the majority setting the standard :yes:....shame they got 4 tho (Drink riding idiots!)
I imagine they also targeted rego's on Nick smiths behalf as well, but bloody good to see so many bikers out there riding safe & sober and proving that we ARE responcible road user's.
Good Job you Northern Riders, hope the rally was great & everyone had fun :niceone:

[tigertim20]

does anyone have the figures to compare how 4 out of 600 compares to the amount caught out of every 600 tested in say auckland or dunedin or anywhere else in a routine booze-bus stop? just wonder if thats any higher than the average?

That aside, a shame they got four regardless.

[admenk]

Why report on the mere 596 sober riders when you can highlight the 4 over the limit. It's called balanced reporting :angry:

[Bald Eagle]

4 out of 600 = 1.5% - they get better returns in their average suburban booze bus ops.

Targetting motorcyclists - yeah right.

oops - got some facts instead :blank:
Easter Malborough 8 out of 2100 (http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/4926982/Eight-drivers-nabbed-in-drink-driving-blitz)
July 2007 National blitz 236 out of 26760 (http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/3182.html)
45 out of 12000 Auckland July rehearsal for RWC (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10658051)

someone else can do the math

[Katman]

someone else can do the math

0.38%

0.88%

0.375%

(And 4 out of 600 is 0.66%).

[wysper]

4 out of 600 = 1.5% - they get better returns in their average suburban booze bus ops.



I hate to be a pedant, but isn't that 0.66%?

EDIT ahh bugger, Katman beat me too it!

[dogsnbikes]

Wouldn't say the cheakpoints were a susprise when it was mentioned before the rally that they would be there...

The Christian club with the breatherliser station on sunday morning was a good idea it caused some too delay their departure,but better too be told you need a coffee and a feed by a christain rather than being told too park over there by the police...

When we got too the cheak point at Ohukune we were just waved through,as they already had a cue on the side of road which were mainly cars

So how car drivers were over at those cheak points??

[Usarka]

SIZE]
does anyone have the figures to compare how 4 out of 600 compares to the amount caught out of every 600 tested in say auckland
Someone may want to check my math...seriously....

4 out of 600 = 1 rider in 150.

Operation Unite in May netted 305 out of 27,560 drivers. That = 1 driver in 90.


So the real headline is that bikers DIY rates are lower than the national norm.
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/28113.html


Edit: So the real headline is that bikers DIY rates are lower than the national norm even when the bikers were targetted leaving a huge piss up.

[scumdog]

Someone may want to check my math...seriously....

4 out of 600 = 1 rider in 150.

Operation Unite in May netted 305 out of 27,560 drivers. That = 1 driver in 90.


So the real headline is that bikers DIY rates are lower than the national norm.



And if they had targetted people leaving a rock festival there's a chance it would have been even worse tha both the above examples....anybody got such figures?

[DIN PELENDA]

Me my son and group of other bikers got to check point Ohakune town center on Sunday morning, car on front of us just did runner so police jump in car and put up chase. We were free to go:innocent:.

[pritch]

And if they had targetted people leaving a rock festival there's a chance it would have been even worse tha both the above examples....anybody got such figures?

Marijuana doesn't show up in breath tests does it? :whistle:

[5150]

I wander if one of the 4 was the guy who pissed in his neighbours tent, then fell into someone elses tent on Saturday morning?:whistle:

If the cops started to wave bikers through, they must have run out of batteries on their testing units. :corn:

[jellywrestler]

Be interesting to find out whether they were adults over 400 or youngsters over the new zero limit...

[The Lone Rider]

March Hare bike rally

5 people out of 3000+

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/3416281/Bikers-disappointed-in-police-operation

The police were very stand off-ish. And blocked a main road into Waimate for 4 hours

[skippa1]

0.66%:msn-wink:

[Spuds1234]

That March Hare check point was rubbish. Fucking baking in the sun for 30-40 minutes just to leave the rally site.

It was heaven to start moving on the road finally and cool down a bit.

[98tls]

That March Hare check point was rubbish. Fucking baking in the sun for 30-40 minutes just to leave the rally site.

It was heaven to start moving on the road finally and cool down a bit.

Mate you think 30 miutes was harsh,we had to park up under the big oak before the gate until they fucked off,stinking hot with gear on.Still point taken though.

[Spuds1234]

Mate you think 30 miutes was harsh,we had to park up under the big oak before the gate until they fucked off,stinking hot with gear on.Still point taken though.

I would have loved to have parked up with shorts and a t-shirt on and enjoyed the sun but I had to be somewhere in the afternoon. Made for a more spirited ride back to Christchurch.

[F5 Dave]

I wonder about the science of alch testing 'the morning after'. Lets say you get a skinfull & sleep it off. What happens is you brain is releasing all those chemicals in our brain to make the neurons misfire giving you the drunk feeling. Mmmm nice. It isn't the alcohol itself making you impaired.

So the next day your various guts have done as much as they could to remove the toxins from your blood but there is still a measurable amount of alcohol flowing about. Is this alcohol having the same affect on your brain once you've spent a bunch of these produced chemicals? or a lesser amount?

Just saying, but it makes if getting ratarsed at a rally worth being the last to leave a prudent move.

[jasonu]

I wonder about the science of alch testing 'the morning after'. Lets say you get a skinfull & sleep it off. What happens is you brain is releasing all those chemicals in our brain to make the neurons misfire giving you the drunk feeling. Mmmm nice. It isn't the alcohol itself making you impaired.

So the next day your various guts have done as much as they could to remove the toxins from your blood but there is still a measurable amount of alcohol flowing about. Is this alcohol having the same affect on your brain once you've spent a bunch of these produced chemicals? or a lesser amount?

Just saying, but it makes if getting ratarsed at a rally worth being the last to leave a prudent move.

In Auckland the cops used to set up check points on Saturday and Sundays early am to get those who thought they had 'slept it off in their cars' but were still apparently 'impared'.

[Jeff Sichoe]

From that March Hare article


Some riders had asked police if they could be breath-tested before they got on their bikes to leave the event, but were informed they would be tested once they left the showgrounds on their machines, he said.

"I was there at 7am when several people asked police if they could be tested and were refused point blank.


Now that fucken stinks, doesn't it.

People are obviously CONCERNED they may be over the limit, but the police won't give them peace of mind before they get on their bike...

Stinks like shit

[nadroj]

The best I have seen was a checkpoint on a one way just before the PD centre one saturday morning. Wasn't just DIC they caught.

[The Lone Rider]

From that March Hare article

Now that fucken stinks, doesn't it.

People are obviously CONCERNED they may be over the limit, but the police won't give them peace of mind before they get on their bike...

Stinks like shit

That was me, and a couple of others I was with who first approached them when they appeared.

We were told they would only test us if we were operating a vehicle.

We asked if they felt it was irresponsible to require people to operate a vehicle and ride it out onto a pubic road, when they may potentially be a danger to others.

The reply we got was along the lines of "Don't you think it's irresponsible to drink all night?"

I then rephrased my previous question, suggesting it was a good idea for people who felt fine but weren't sure, to be allowed to be breath tested.

I got the same reply as before, with the addition that they didn't have time to breath test everyone who walked out asking for it (this was at 7am or so)

They were then asked if they thought it better to error on the side of caution (given that it was a road safety concern), and allow people to be breath tested before operating a vehicle, as opposed to having them breath tested while already operating one.

They politely told us to fuck off and that they'd talk to us when we are operating a vehicle.

--

Might add a number of people got pissed off with the long lines to get out of the rally because of the road block, so they pulled a few fence posts and went through a small paddock and out to the road, thus avoiding the long lines and road block.

[scumdog]

OK< not going into the pros and cons of the March Hare story but one thing I will say:

IF they had tested everybody who wanted to be tested before they left the rally a fair number would probably be over.

If the test device showed a positive reading it would then 'purge' in that it takes a minute or two to clear that alcohol from its system before it is ready for the next test.

And from experience it seems that if a breath screening device is produced near a group of people they all want tested, even non-driver/riders, "just to see"

So if you think on how much time it took to test everybody at the time and add the 'purge' time X however many tested you can see you may well have been there longer.

MAYBE if there were enough staff and testing device they MAY have been able to screen random people who walk up and say "Can you test me?"

In the meantime I would suggest you buy your own testing device/kit.

It won't stand up in Court if you get done after it showed you were OK - but I understand they err on the side of caution - and it gives you an indication.

[jellywrestler]

In the meantime I would suggest you buy your own testing device/kit.


I did just that, bought two Sobercheck 3000 models ( the one Consumer magazine recommended as being the best) after a while they don't work as they need recalibrating.
Sent them away in the same pack paid the fees and they came back and read differently, frightening cause i'd been relying on these giving me a fair indication for several years and while i always erred on the side of caution just where do these machines leave you if when they've justed been calibrated and aren't reading the same????

[sil3nt]

People are obviously CONCERNED they may be over the limit, but the police won't give them peace of mind before they get on their bike...If your concerned then don't fkn ride! Not hard is it :facepalm:

[Bald Eagle]

They politely told us to fuck off and that they'd talk to us when we are operating a vehicle.


Which begs the question in reasonableness, if they where aiming for safety allowing optional testing so riders could elect not to drive would be a better outcome. As against we only want you when your driving so we get the 'enforcement stats' up.

[tigertim20]

OK< not going into the pros and cons of the March Hare story but one thing I will say:

IF they had tested everybody who wanted to be tested before they left the rally a fair number would probably be over.

If the test device showed a positive reading it would then 'purge' in that it takes a minute or two to clear that alcohol from its system before it is ready for the next test.

And from experience it seems that if a breath screening device is produced near a group of people they all want tested, even non-driver/riders, "just to see"

So if you think on how much time it took to test everybody at the time and add the 'purge' time X however many tested you can see you may well have been there longer.

MAYBE if there were enough staff and testing device they MAY have been able to screen random people who walk up and say "Can you test me?"

In the meantime I would suggest you buy your own testing device/kit.It won't stand up in Court if you get done after it showed you were OK - but I understand they err on the side of caution - and it gives you an indication.

I understand where you are coming from in terms of the device needing time between positive readings, BUT, If the cops in that instance were there because they wanted to make sure people were safe, then they would have produced many more machines, so that people could be tested to check.

The part of your post I highlighted is also a good idea.

I notice that now rallies are starting to provide machines for use by rally goers to check themselves out before leaving the rally, which I think is a great move.

Cant you get devices overseas that check breath and are connected to the vehicles ignotion system? e.g. wont start untill you blow a safe reading?

[scracha]

If your concerned then don't fkn ride! Not hard is it :facepalm:

Some people got homes to go back to. Doesn't make sense to waste an extra 4 hours "drying out" if you're actually under the limit now does it?



We were told they would only test us if we were operating a vehicle.

Whereas the local cops here are quite happy to breath test us upon request when leaving a pub. Produces quite a few surprises...both "oh my gawd, I'm still over" and "how can I be fit to drive". Either way, it's about safety and education.

Clearly the cops at the bike rally's are more concerned about statistics and revenue gathering.

[sil3nt]

Some people got homes to go back to. Doesn't make sense to waste an extra 4 hours "drying out" if you're actually under the limit now does it?Doesn't make sense to drink all night if you have to go home in the morning now does it?

[red mermaid]

It has more to do with the road side test only giving an indication that you may be over the limit.
A positive result on that test then gives a police officer to require you to accompany him for an evidential test that can be admitted in law.

Also alcohol can effect people in different ways depending on many factors, eg; food eaten, weight, fatigue, drug use.

Plus if are allowed a roadside test, then drive and crash and it is established that the alcohol in your system contributed to your driving what liability does the police officer carry for this crash?
That is not only liability in law but also within the police under their employment process's.



Some people got homes to go back to. Doesn't make sense to waste an extra 4 hours "drying out" if you're actually under the limit now does it?


Whereas the local cops here are quite happy to breath test us upon request when leaving a pub. Produces quite a few surprises...both "oh my gawd, I'm still over" and "how can I be fit to drive". Either way, it's about safety and education.

Clearly the cops at the bike rally's are more concerned about statistics and revenue gathering.

[sinned]

Doesn't make sense to drink all night if you have to go home in the morning now does it?
+1 and why should my taxes be used to provide an alcohol test to anyone who wants it.

The drink driving limit is a limit I would want to be well under before throwing a leg over a motorcycle. Okay though for throwing a leg over some female riders on KB :yes:

[tigertim20]

+1 and why should my taxes be used to provide an alcohol test to anyone who wants it.

The drink driving limit is a limit I would want to be well under before throwing a leg over a motorcycle. Okay though for throwing a leg over some female riders on KB :yes:

would you rather the few dollars for each test, or the hundreds of thousands for the hospital bills?

[gatch]

I don't think it is fair to hate on the front line coppers.

In the end they are cunts with jobs and receive their orders from their bosses just like us regular douche bags.

If they stray too far from their guidelines they get a kicked arse. Except if they lose their jobs, it is a bit harder to find another in the same industry in NZ.

Ultimately if you are worried you may be over the limit in the morning, don't get boozed.

[_Shrek_]

does anyone have the figures to compare how 4 out of 600 compares to the amount caught out of every 600 tested in say auckland or dunedin or anywhere else in a routine booze-bus stop? just wonder if thats any higher than the average?

3 out of 2200 tested at march hare


OK< not going into the pros and cons of the March Hare story but one thing I will say:

IF they had tested everybody who wanted to be tested before they left the rally a fair number would probably be over.

If the test device showed a positive reading it would then 'purge' in that it takes a minute or two to clear that alcohol from its system before it is ready for the next test.


I understand where you are coming from in terms of the device needing time between positive readings, BUT, If the cops in that instance were there because they wanted to make sure people were safe, then they would have produced many more machines, so that people could be tested to check.

apart from what scummy said, I went out & tried to get tested (march hare) & they said no & I tried a few different points....
while I was waiting got to talking with plod, & it had happened at another rally some where, that they tested some one before they left & the rider found that he was ok, so the :tugger: goes back in starts drinking then goes out & gets done DIC it goes to court & he gets off coz the :Police: said he was ok the 1st time, egg all over police face, so now they tell us you not sure eat some thing have another coffee "BUT DON"T RIDE" until your sure or know

[gatch]

I was thinking more on this tonight.

In organized circuit racing, there is always an ambulance on site. I wonder if there would be scope to have a couple of cops an hand at big rallies in a similar fashion, at the request of the event organizers. For the purpose of breath testing before people get on their bikes.

Worth investigating ?

[idb]

Why not just settle down in the morning, cook up a breakfast and get away a bit later?
You're rested, refreshed and sober.

[tigertim20]

I was thinking more on this tonight.

In organized circuit racing, there is always an ambulance on site. I wonder if there would be scope to have a couple of cops an hand at big rallies in a similar fashion, at the request of the event organizers. For the purpose of breath testing before people get on their bikes.

Worth investigating ?

what should really come out of this discussion, is the realisation that event organisers need to take this issue into account when they organise the bloody rally.
As annoying as it is that the cops dont want to test you unless you are riding, its not really their responsibility to make sure you are sober, its their responsibility to remove drunks from the road.

You can buy breathtesters on the open market fairly cheaply, and those who are concerned about it, can purchase one themselves for personal use. a friend of mine has one that he takes to rallies, and lets his mates use it too. Its about taking responsibility for your OWN actions I guess.

Some rallies have already thought this through, and purchased some breath testers, and provided them for use by the patrons of the rallies. There may be a few fucktards that will use a safe reading as an excuse to drink more piss, but those are the fuckwits that you WANT to get caught, before they drive their bike/car into your wife and child.

That said, as an overall, it doesnt seem like the incidence rate of drink driving at rallies is any higher overall than the incidence rate of the average checkpoint, which is good, because I bet the incidence rate IS considerably higher for events like rock concerts and that fag-game, whatsit.. Rugby, yeah, I bet rugby games produce a higher rate of drink driving...

[scumdog]

3 out of 2200 tested at march hare

Possibly because those that felt they were over the limit did not leave the site hence were not caught and processesd...

[doc]

Assuming that they had a checkpoint on the Waiouru side of the site as well, they must have not caught anyone. There were more than 600 at the rally. Seems like a bit of dodgy reporting again.

[Katman]

Why not just settle down in the morning, cook up a breakfast and get away a bit later?
You're rested, refreshed and sober.

And risk having to use the toilets on the Sunday morning?

Are you insane? :shit:

[_Shrek_]

Why not just settle down in the morning, cook up a breakfast and get away a bit later?
You're rested, refreshed and sober.


Possibly because those that felt they were over the limit did not leave the site hence were not caught and processesd...

& me being one of these, went back in had another feed & coffee, felt rested, refreshed and sober went back out & had 0 breath alcohol :yes:

[_Shrek_]

And risk having to use the toilets on the Sunday morning?

Are you insane? :shit:

thats why you go at 1st light & then hope like hell you don't need to go back :sick:

[MarkH]

The Christian club with the breatherliser station on sunday morning was a good idea it caused some too delay their departure,but better too be told you need a coffee and a feed by a christain rather than being told too park over there by the police...

When we got too the cheak point at Ohukune we were just waved through,as they already had a cue on the side of road which were mainly cars

So how car drivers were over at those cheak points??

The Christian Motorcycle Club members were also wandering around the Cold Kiwi area offering their free breathalyser tests to anyone interested. Even though I am a dedicated atheist I'd like to point out that those guys were doing a damn decent thing and I hope everyone appreciated what they were doing for their fellow bikers (regardless of religious beliefs).

When I got to the checkpoint in Ohakune they were waving the cars through and checking all bikers (even ones on maxi-scooters). I wonder how many car drivers were over the limit but were waved through the checkpoint without being tested.


what should really come out of this discussion, is the realisation that event organisers need to take this issue into account when they organise the bloody rally.

Or the individuals attending the rally can just enjoy being treated as responsible adults and try to behave that way. Those fuckin' idiots that ride drunk hopefully will learn from their experience with the police and not kill themselves or anyone else. Plenty of motorcyclists have been killed or injured by drunk drivers, I reserve my sympathy for other people and offer none to the drunk drivers.

[scumdog]

Or the individuals attending the rally can just enjoy being treated as responsible adults and try to behave that way. Those fuckin' idiots that ride drunk hopefully will learn from their experience with the police and not kill themselves or anyone else. Plenty of motorcyclists have been killed or injured by drunk drivers, I reserve my sympathy for other people and offer none to the drunk drivers.

Yep, yesterdays O.D.T. had the Court news in it including the idiot with a 6L on the Buell who left this years Vincent rally a bit worse for wear. (admitted drinking until 4am).

And hammered down a short straight and shot through a T-intersection into the chevron sign that indicated the road was now running at right-angles to his direction of travel:doh:.

Just lucky he only suffered a broken collar-bone - and a day in Court along with the fines & disqualification etc.

I guess HE got his monies worth out of ACC...:angry:

[FJRider]

Yep, yesterdays O.D.T. had the Court news in it including the idiot with a 6L on the Buell who left this years Vincent rally a bit worse for wear. (admitted drinking until 4am).

And hammered down a short straight and shot through a T-intersection into the chevron sign that indicated the road was now running at right-angles to his direction of travel:doh:.

Just lucky he only suffered a broken collar-bone - and a day in Court along with the fines & disqualification etc.

I guess HE got his monies worth out of ACC...:angry:

Broken collarbone ... 9 weeks off work (if he was working) ...with ACC paying two thirds of his wages (less tax which equates to about half pay in the hand ... if that ...) less fines ... and repair bills ... any monies from ACC will be WELL spent ...

[rastuscat]

Just a few thoughts.

When you do a breath test, it doesn't check if you are drunk, it checks the level of alcohol against a set legal limit.

If you went up to a Popo and did a test which said you were legal, you'd think no prob. 10 minutes later, your actual level would be different from when you did the test. It may be higher, it may be lower, but it won't be the same. If you've just finished drinking, it would still be on the way up, but if you've been off the drink for a few hours, it would be on it's way down. If you are a 120 kg behemoth you'd have a different metabolism rate than a 65 kg racing sardine, so the alcohol would appear or disappear from your breath at a different rate. There really are too may variables for there to be a definitive answer.

Imagine the whinging if you went to a Popo and passed his test, then drove down the road and failed the next test a few minutes later, and ended up in court. You'd be aggrieved, and justifiably. Thing is, a breath test is only an instantaneous snap shot of the breath level at the time it was taken.

That's why Popos are reluctant to breath test drivers, lest they end up having to appear as a defence witness at the drink driving case.

In law, there is an irrefutable presumption (whew, legal term there) that the level of the test at the station or booze bus is the same as the driver had when driving. It's actually incorrect as they are normally minutes apart, but the law needed a basis upon which to establish a legal reading.

Just my thoughts.

Donuts.