Racing: 1000cc vs 600cc?

[Brett]

Ok KB racing locals...

I have finally sold my road going GSXR and am seriously thinking about venturing into racing, nothing serious, largely for fun. (But...I bet that is where most of you racers started?)

I have been riding 600's on the road and for track days for 5 years or so, and am by no means slow on it. I have also ridden a few thousands in the last while, and while not nearly as settled on them as the 600's, I am fairly confident and able to throw them around (at decent ROAD pace, never taken a 1000cc around the track...)

In terms of track handling skills and starting out, would you guys say that there is a distinct learning advantage in starting on a 600cc first, or just jump in on a thou, albeit a little bit more carefully than I would on a 600 and get up to speed (per se) on a bigger machine?

If Raj, the white night in white boots can race a 1000cc after riding a 600...surely anyone can? *said somewhat in jest* (Hope you're still floating around here Raj....I expect some comment).

So team, what's the verdict? Start on 600cc and cement the skills, or venture out on a thou and get used to throwing around a bigger machine?

[DEATH_INC.]

The thing with a 600 is you can cross enter into most f1 races, so ya get twice as many races in 1 day for usually little more expense. On a thou yer stuck in f1 only....unless you race a postie....
btw, the current thous aren't hard to ride.

[White trash]

What the ginger ninja said. With the the addition of "the current thous aren't hard to ride, but they bite a shitload harder"

If I had my time on the track again, I'd stick with the 600 for a few more years. Funnily enough, as another ginger ninja (Mr Harris) suggested.

[Kiwi Graham]

The 1000 takes a lot more physicality to get it around the circuit, needless to say it also has more power so ‘pinning’ the throttle requires a little more patience exiting a corner until you have mastered the art of controlling wheel spin (still learning).
You can get away with a mistake or two on the 1000 regarding gear selection etc in the knowledge that the HP will cover up the wee fuck up slightly, do it on a 600 and backwards you go.

I believe there is an increased skill level required in mastering the power of the 1000 over the 600, the 1000 can bite you real bad…”not hard to ride” depends how you want to ride it, plenty of people ride a 1000 both on the road and the track without any issues at all, its when you start pushing your ability and testing the capabilities of the bike the real difference will show up.

The difference between the two can be seen within there own class, I’ve seen first hand the difference between a 1000cc stocker and a ‘Superbike’ it’s bloody massive! Currently working on getting some fruit in my bike at the moment, when its done I’ll have to start learning all over again and re-calibrating..

If you’re just starting out racing I’d go for the 600 and move up later if you want, there is more to racing than just the capacity of the bike you’re sat on. Better to learn the ‘craft’ on a bike that doesn’t or has the ability to intimidate you and enjoy the learning experience.

[ellipsis]

...if i had the skill, the youth and could afford such a dilemma, watching Cam Jones at Levels last saturday would have made up my mind. He was glued to the back wheel of a very competent racers thou, all day, went past often and managed to hold the thou off down the back at times...(dont know how this would relate to a big horsepower track though)...

[Shaun]

SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE DUDE


Buy My K9 GSXR 750 Track day bike $ 8500---00

[Shaun]

...if i had the skill, the youth and could afford such a dilemma, watching Cam Jones at Levels last saturday would have made up my mind. He was glued to the back wheel of a very competent racers thou, all day, went past often and managed to hold the thou off down the back at times...(dont know how this would relate to a big horsepower track though)...



Cam is a very good rider but, A 600 or 750 will out corner a THOU eer so easy:yes:

[Brett]

The thing with a 600 is you can cross enter into most f1 races, so ya get twice as many races in 1 day for usually little more expense. On a thou yer stuck in f1 only....unless you race a postie....
btw, the current thous aren't hard to ride.

That is a very good point which I hadn't thought of yet. Cheers Death.

[Brett]

SPLIT THE DIFFERENCE DUDE


Buy My K9 GSXR 750 Track day bike $ 8500---00

Had a look, couldn't find your post with it in?

[Brett]

What the ginger ninja said. With the the addition of "the current thous aren't hard to ride, but they bite a shitload harder"

If I had my time on the track again, I'd stick with the 600 for a few more years. Funnily enough, as another ginger ninja (Mr Harris) suggested.


The 1000 takes a lot more physicality to get it around the circuit, needless to say it also has more power so ‘pinning’ the throttle requires a little more patience exiting a corner until you have mastered the art of controlling wheel spin (still learning).
You can get away with a mistake or two on the 1000 regarding gear selection etc in the knowledge that the HP will cover up the wee fuck up slightly, do it on a 600 and backwards you go.

I believe there is an increased skill level required in mastering the power of the 1000 over the 600, the 1000 can bite you real bad…”not hard to ride” depends how you want to ride it, plenty of people ride a 1000 both on the road and the track without any issues at all, its when you start pushing your ability and testing the capabilities of the bike the real difference will show up.

The difference between the two can be seen within there own class, I’ve seen first hand the difference between a 1000cc stocker and a ‘Superbike’ it’s bloody massive! Currently working on getting some fruit in my bike at the moment, when its done I’ll have to start learning all over again and re-calibrating..

If you’re just starting out racing I’d go for the 600 and move up later if you want, there is more to racing than just the capacity of the bike you’re sat on. Better to learn the ‘craft’ on a bike that doesn’t or has the ability to intimidate you and enjoy the learning experience.


Cam is a very good rider but, A 600 or 750 will out corner a THOU eer so easy:yes:

Thanks for the feedback guys. It kind of confirms what I am feeling, 600 is probably the way to start out.

[Shaun]

Had a look, couldn't find your post with it in?


There is no post of it mate, it sits in my shed in Taranaki. I am in AK with NO photos of it with me or saved on a comp

Std Sspension
Slip On Muffler
Race Body work
ALL STANDARD

4000KZ on motor

[gixerracer]

Cam is a very good rider but, A 600 or 750 will out corner a THOU eer so easy:yes:

Absolute Bollocks.
Skatchill had my GPS laptimer on the new GSXR 600 when he set the fastest ever 600 lap at Manfeild recently and I overlayed his with my best superbike lap time fro the National round, The only place he was faster was at the exit apex of dunlop coming on to the front straight other wise his apex speeds where the same or slighly slower than my thou.

[White trash]

Absolute Bollocks.
Skatchill had my GPS laptimer on the new GSXR 600 when he set the fastest ever 600 lap at Manfeild recently and I overlayed his with my best superbike lap time fro the National round, The only place he was faster was at the exit apex of dunlop coming on to the front straight other wise his apex speeds where the same or slighly slower than my thou.

Want me to chuck that lap timer on me GSX550 for a lap or two so you can see where you're slower mate? No need to thank me........., you're welcome.

[gixerracer]

Want me to chuck that lap timer on me GSX550 for a lap or two so you can see where you're slower mate? No need to thank me........., you're welcome.

Dont make me bring up the first time we came accross each other on the track James:scooter:

[Edbear]

This is a cool thread! :yes:

I'm not so au fait with racing classes. Which classes can you race the 750 in and does it have any advantages over racing a 600? Do you race in F1?

[Biggles08]

Which classes can you race the 750 in and does it have any advantages over racing a 600? Do you race in F1?

Yup...F1 and that's all.

[Tony.OK]

I started straight off on a thou, was moderately ok and giggle factor was high. That was until it bit me and was taken off in a waambulance.
Now I've got a fairly modern 600, its all but stock and I'm only a couple of secs off my best thou time(that had fancy susp etc).
The 600 is much easier to ride but just doesn't have that "pin the throttle" fun factor. I will say though that even though I haven't raced the 600 it is really enjoyable to learn how to ride at pace without the grunt to help out, that and beating ya mate on his SBK adds to the fun haha.
Cost wise there's not much between the two, prob slightly more on the 600 if doing 2 classes per meeting.
Enjoy whichever class yer decide.............its bloody addictive and great for meeting like minded folks.

[Edbear]

Yup...F1 and that's all.

So how competitive is it against the thou's? The GSX-R750 is my all time favourite sports bike, and alas I may never get to own one now.

I would suspect that for most riders, the difference would be in rider ability as the 750 is known to be able to punch above its weight?

[Grumph]

I can't pick which island you're in...
In the SI, go for a 600 as with the exception of Teretonga, everything you'll race on is more suited to a 600.
In the NI, Puke and Manfield would probably be boring on a 600.
Once you can hang onto well ridden 1000's on your 600, move up.

[Shaun]

Absolute Bollocks.
Skatchill had my GPS laptimer on the new GSXR 600 when he set the fastest ever 600 lap at Manfeild recently and I overlayed his with my best superbike lap time fro the National round, The only place he was faster was at the exit apex of dunlop coming on to the front straight other wise his apex speeds where the same or slighly slower than my thou.


Ive read No further I LICK your feet in penence for my dribble

[RobGassit]

Can someone give us an idea of tyre use between the two? How many races can you get on a superstock 600 tyre wise?

[suzuki21]

Absolute Bollocks.
Skatchill had my GPS laptimer on the new GSXR 600 when he set the fastest ever 600 lap at Manfeild recently and I overlayed his with my best superbike lap time fro the National round, The only place he was faster was at the exit apex of dunlop coming on to the front straight other wise his apex speeds where the same or slighly slower than my thou.

He was only quicker on the exit of Dunlop because there was probably no data available from your bike. We have seen how you exit that particular corner lately.
I will save you having to reply........ "FUCK YOU STEVE"

[CHOPPA]

Can someone give us an idea of tyre use between the two? How many races can you get on a superstock 600 tyre wise?

A good 600 rider will use the same amount of tyres as a superbike rider. If you find a superbike rider that recycles his tyres regularly then its a good option to run his tyres.

600 is by far the best choice to start racing on

[DEATH_INC.]

In the NI, Puke and Manfield would probably be boring on a 600.
Not really, I'm pretty sure Brian Wood lapped puke in under a minute on his 600, which is plenty fast enough unless you're at the front of the nationals in superbike,
and I've seen Nick Cole and mr Odermatt (amongst others) leading f1 in the winter series around Minefeild on 600's.
They're plenty fast enough to keep you amused for a while..

[racefactory]

speaking of which Gareth Jones did 58.7 on a 600 at pukey. 56 seconds is record for 1000. Really not much in it...

[Brett]

Well unless I come across something that is incredibly well priced on trademe that is already race fit, I think it is largely going to be dictated by what I can find damaged on trademe or at turners and build up.

This would probably make a good starter...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-353624314.htm

[Brett]

Not really, I'm pretty sure Brian Wood lapped puke in under a minute on his 600, which is plenty fast enough unless you're at the front of the nationals in superbike,
and I've seen Nick Cole and mr Odermatt (amongst others) leading f1 in the winter series around Minefeild on 600's.
They're plenty fast enough to keep you amused for a while..

Yeah, Nicko was running that Daytona 675 at one point wasn't he?

[Kiwi Graham]

speaking of which Gareth Jones did 58.7 on a 600 at pukey. 56 seconds is record for 1000. Really not much in it...

Nearly 3 seconds is a lifetime round Puke!

[DEATH_INC.]

Yeah, Nicko was running that Daytona 675 at one point wasn't he?
Yup............

[racefactory]

Nearly 3 seconds is a lifetime round Puke!

But it's a fast track with 300kph back straight, 600 with 3/4 the power is good going I thought.

[Shaun]

Well unless I come across something that is incredibly well priced on trademe that is already race fit, I think it is largely going to be dictated by what I can find damaged on trademe or at turners and build up.

This would probably make a good starter...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-353624314.htm


Pm me your phone number Brett and I will call you tonight. I have a K5 GSXR 600 with a FULLY RECONDITIONED MOTOR here that you can have very Very cheap WHY, I want/need every cent I can get for my new Buisness at the moment.

[gixerracer]

speaking of which Gareth Jones did 58.7 on a 600 at pukey. 56 seconds is record for 1000. Really not much in it...

Sam Smith Qulfyd on pole the year before that at 58.1 on his R6 and Sam and Scott Charlton raced at 58.2 or.3 that season so Sam is the fastest dude ever around Puke(on a 600 at least) Bugden done 56.2 on His Superduper GSXR1000

[jellywrestler]

Absolute Bollocks.
Skatchill had my GPS laptimer on the new GSXR 600 when he set the fastest ever 600 lap at Manfeild recently and I overlayed his with my best superbike lap time fro the National round, The only place he was faster was at the exit apex of dunlop coming on to the front straight other wise his apex speeds where the same or slighly slower than my thou.

You weren't in the kitty litter on those laps were you? It has been known to happen

[Shaun]

You weren't in the kitty litter on those laps were you? It has been known to happen



Must be time for some thing different by now dude, even Im getting bored with reading that 9 months later

[gixerracer]

Must be time for some thing different by now dude, even Im getting bored with reading that 9 months later

Tiz ok Shaun I have big sholders( no i have no sholders coz i kept busting them)
They just no im guna win all the races this coming season so they are getting there digs in while they still can:scooter:

[wayne]

what about finishing half the races first, little steps

[jellywrestler]

Must be time for some thing different by now dude, even Im getting bored with reading that 9 months later
4.5 months actually Shaun, but yeah, you're probably right...

[gixerracer]

what about finishing half the races first, little steps

:facepalm:

[Ivan]

i have faith in you craig, bring it home this season

[Kiwi Graham]

4.5 months actually Shaun, but yeah, you're probably right...

Not wanting to be pedantic but 4.5 months ago it was circuit planking, a year before that it was kitty litter.

All sorted now Craig is gunna fly this season aye boy :yes:

[Shaun]

4.5 months actually Shaun, but yeah, you're probably right...



Nah mate,IM full of shit, keep kickin him

[cowpoos]

Ok KB racing locals...

I have finally sold my road going GSXR and am seriously thinking about venturing into racing, nothing serious, largely for fun. (But...I bet that is where most of you racers started?)

I have been riding 600's on the road and for track days for 5 years or so, and am by no means slow on it. I have also ridden a few thousands in the last while, and while not nearly as settled on them as the 600's, I am fairly confident and able to throw them around (at decent ROAD pace, never taken a 1000cc around the track...)

In terms of track handling skills and starting out, would you guys say that there is a distinct learning advantage in starting on a 600cc first, or just jump in on a thou, albeit a little bit more carefully than I would on a 600 and get up to speed (per se) on a bigger machine?

If Raj, the white night in white boots can race a 1000cc after riding a 600...surely anyone can? *said somewhat in jest* (Hope you're still floating around here Raj....I expect some comment).

So team, what's the verdict? Start on 600cc and cement the skills, or venture out on a thou and get used to throwing around a bigger machine?

If your confident enough....that when the back of the bike bucks and skips...steps out occasionally and spins some and you don't close the throttle...you'll be fine on a thousand. Otherwise...like everyone says....play on a 600 for a while.

Racing is a bit different to fast road riding...Go hard though dude...you'll love it!!

[cowpoos]

Dont make me bring up the first time we came accross each other on the track James:scooter:

how did that love poem go ghey boy??

[cowpoos]

This is a cool thread! :yes:

I'm not so au fait with racing classes. Which classes can you race the 750 in and does it have any advantages over racing a 600? Do you race in F1?

Superbikes....and no advantages....and lots of disadvantages!

[White trash]

Dont make me bring up the first time we came accross each other on the track James:scooter:

Yeah but I wasn't on the mighty GSX then, was I. Me mate Kerry has told me there's a 66 in the old girl at Manfeild if he rebuilds the shock:woohoo:

[White trash]

how did that love poem go ghey boy??

Yeah actually, you haven't written me any poetry for quite a while now Craig, what's up with that?

[Shaun]

Well unless I come across something that is incredibly well priced on trademe that is already race fit, I think it is largely going to be dictated by what I can find damaged on trademe or at turners and build up.

This would probably make a good starter...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-353624314.htm


I have a $5K Deal to offer you tonight mate!

[Billy]

Dont make me bring up the first time we came accross each other on the track James:scooter:

Oh yeah!!!Which sandtrap was that???

[Billy]

what about finishing half the races first, little steps

HALF!!!!! I thought you said LITTLE steps????and dont get me started on the wet ones ROFLMAO!!!

[jasonu]

Mate, go Bucket Raceing. Learn your racecraft and make your 'beginner' cockups at speeds less likely to kill you or others around you and move on from there (unles you get the Bucket bug and choose to stay as many others have).
You can get an FXR150 ready to race for under $1500. The entry fees are cheap and there are lots of meetings. You won't get a better bang for your buck in anyother class.