Sold a bus and then the buyer leaves it on the road. Now what?

[Conquiztador]

Had this old bus, a Ford Hino -86 that I wanted to get rid of. The COF had run out a year ago. And the rego did run out July 2011. I did not manage to get new COF so I left it sitting and bought another bus.

In June I was thinking I better sell the thing. Put in on TM for highest bidder. Had a chap who offered me $6K so I took his offer.

He flew up from SI and told me he knew everything there wa to know re busses. I told him that the bus been sitting for close to a year. I have started it and driven it around a little, but thats it.

The chap wants to drive it to Wellington and put it on the ferry. He has organised a ferry ticket. I tell him it will be his responsibility. But I also tell him that when we were using the bus she did run well and I can not see any reason he would not make it. (Reason for failing COF was rust in floor under seats).

Well... the Manawatu Gorge is closed so he drives over the Rimutakas. Once he gets over the hill he has heated up motor, steering and burnt the clutch. So he leaves it 5Km outside Upper Hutt at 11pm and leaves me a message on my phone. I get the message 6am and his next call at 6.30am. He tells me that he had a hell of a drive and that the bus was not fit for the road... (No COF or rego...hello) and he has thrown the keys in the bus and walked away.He does not want it. I tell him the only thing I can do is to tow it back. He tells me he could not care less.

I get a tow company to tow it back to Hawke's Bay for $1,900 + GST.

Now he wants his $6K back. I told him he is dreaming and the best I can consider is to pay him $6K less the towing. Oh yes, he also want me to refund all his costs from the trip...

I am planning to re-sell the bus, charge him the tow fee and also if the re-sale is less than the $6K I will take the difference out of his money.

Comments?

[Katman]

Comments?

<img src="http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/7/70/Cool_story_bro.jpg"/>

[blackdog]

Not your problem in the first place. If you had filled out your side of the change of ownership and submitted it, you had no further responsibility. Caveat Emptor and all that.

[bogan]

Reckon you should have left it alone after he dumped it on the side of the road. Now that you have it back again he will say it has been returned so should get a refund.

[supa.m]

Dunno what the law says but as soon as you arranged to get it towed it sounds like you felt that was the right thing to do......why is that?:innocent:

[DEATH_INC.]

Reckon you should have left it alone after he dumped it on the side of the road. Now that you have it back again he will say it has been returned so should get a refund.
Yeh, I'm with him, you've accepted it back, though it is normally up to the buyer to return it. A refund less towing seems fair, and maybe even less damages if you can prove it was his fault. Except you took it back...

[tigertim20]

Had this old bus, a Ford Hino -86 that I wanted to get rid of. The COF had run out a year ago. And the rego did run out July 2011. I did not manage to get new COF so I left it sitting and bought another bus.

In June I was thinking I better sell the thing. Put in on TM for highest bidder. Had a chap who offered me $6K so I took his offer.

He flew up from SI and told me he knew everything there wa to know re busses. I told him that the bus been sitting for close to a year. I have started it and driven it around a little, but thats it.

The chap wants to drive it to Wellington and put it on the ferry. He has organised a ferry ticket. I tell him it will be his responsibility. But I also tell him that when we were using the bus she did run well and I can not see any reason he would not make it. (Reason for failing COF was rust in floor under seats).

Well... the Manawatu Gorge is closed so he drives over the Rimutakas. Once he gets over the hill he has heated up motor, steering and burnt the clutch. So he leaves it 5Km outside Upper Hutt at 11pm and leaves me a message on my phone. I get the message 6am and his next call at 6.30am. He tells me that he had a hell of a drive and that the bus was not fit for the road... (No COF or rego...hello) and he has thrown the keys in the bus and walked away.He does not want it. I tell him the only thing I can do is to tow it back. He tells me he could not care less.

I get a tow company to tow it back to Hawke's Bay for $1,900 + GST.

Now he wants his $6K back. I told him he is dreaming and the best I can consider is to pay him $6K less the towing. Oh yes, he also want me to refund all his costs from the trip...

I am planning to re-sell the bus, charge him the tow fee and also if the re-sale is less than the $6K I will take the difference out of his money.

Comments?

I would not have towed it back. heres the thing.
If youd left it on the side of the road, you could say 'you bought it, and you then chose todrive a vehicle illegally, and you broke it, its your problem' and walk away.
Now that you have towed it back, it appears as though you have agreed to let him return it and cancel the sale - which would naturally mean a refund.

I sell vehicles with honesty, but if someone goes up the road and fucks it, I dont wanna know about it.

[tigertim20]

Yeh, I'm with him, you've accepted it back, though it is normally up to the buyer to return it. A refund less towing seems fair, and maybe even less damages if you can prove it was his fault. Except you took it back...

i should have read the whole thread before posting eh?
agree.

[Conquiztador]

i should have read the whole thread before posting eh?
agree.

The sale was completed on a Saturday and the change of ownership was not completed before I towed it back. No rego or COF and still in our name was the reason I had it towed back. He has paid the $6K in to my account and he has the reciept for the purcahse.

I am OK'ish to have it back. I will re-sell it. But I have no plan to refund the full $6K.

[ktm]

The sale was completed on a Saturday and the change of ownership was not completed before I towed it back. No rego or COF and still in our name was the reason I had it towed back. He has paid the $6K in to my account and he has the reciept for the purcahse.

I am OK'ish to have it back. I will re-sell it. But I have no plan to refund the full $6K.

Seems fair enough to me, the purchaser chose to drive it.....

[SS90]

Am I the only one that thinks $1,900 is slightly expensive?

[sidecar bob]

Do you rekon you would get your money back if you behaved like this moron.
It comes back to the old story these days, make a fucked up decision & blame somebody else for it & accept no personal responsibility.
Tell him to whistle fuckin dixie for his money.

[tigertim20]

The sale was completed on a Saturday and the change of ownership was not completed before I towed it back. No rego or COF and still in our name was the reason I had it towed back. He has paid the $6K in to my account and he has the reciept for the purcahse.

I am OK'ish to have it back. I will re-sell it. But I have no plan to refund the full $6K.

change of ownership can be done online.
might sound harsh, but if you arent foresightfull enough to make sure that the ownership stuff is done BEFORE the vehicle that leaves your sight, then any clusterfuck that happens later is your own fault, as it was avoidable.

Id suggest offering him 3.5k back, with explanation that the other 2.5 covers towing costs, and YOUR time and costs etc.

Either that or he can refund you 1.9k and come pick the fuckin thing up. After the damage from himdriving it, it will have devalued further.

[FJRider]

The sale was completed on a Saturday and the change of ownership was not completed before I towed it back. No rego or COF and still in our name was the reason I had it towed back. He has paid the $6K in to my account and he has the reciept for the purcahse.

I am OK'ish to have it back. I will re-sell it. But I have no plan to refund the full $6K.

IF HE HAS RECIEPT OF PURCHASE ... YOU CHANGE THE OWNERSHIP INTO HIS NAME ...

(Get a copy of that that reciept if you haven't already)

[sidecar bob]

Change the ownership into his name, give him a full refund & then abandon it in the short term parking at the International Airport.

[Conquiztador]

Am I the only one that thinks $1,900 is slightly expensive?

Bus tow. The only company here that can do it will charge $200/hour. From Napier to Upper Hutt is approx 4 hours. Travel back with a 11.5 meter bus hangin off and it will take more than 4 hours. So I recon they were decent towards me... And it was on a Sunday...

[hayd3n]

THIS IS A MOTORCYCLE FORUM
or are you referring to a gold wing?

[Conquiztador]

THIS IS A MOTORCYCLE FORUM
or are you referring to a gold wing?

Im ranting and raving in the "Rant and Rave" forum... You seen some of the other topics here? Love problems, STD's, politics... at least this one has a motor (be that a diesel...) ;-)

[hayd3n]

Im ranting and raving in the "Rant and Rave" forum... You seen some of the other topics here? Love problems, STD's, politics... at least this one has a motor (be that a diesel...) ;-)
um na in only read the bus ones

[FJRider]

So you have a bus ... and $6000 ...

KEEP BOTH ....

The Bus was abandoned ... You ( in the interest of safety... and piece of mind) had it towed to a safe place ...

Send HIM the bill for the tow ...

WITH storage fee's ... to date ...

[marty]

yup. send him the bill for the tow. and keep the 6k. or charge him $100/day storage until he comes and picks it up, or it burns thru the $4900 left of the purchase price.

[paturoa]

He bought it, he paid you for it, you hid nothing, so that stays if you want it to. However you should follow through on the paper work. Then if he wants to be a wanker, go park it where he will get lots of parking tickets (only after the official change of ownership!)

You can't legaly sell it, cos it's no longer your property, unless you "buy" it back from him.

He didn't ask you to tow it so thats your problem.

[SS90]

Bus tow. The only company here that can do it will charge $200/hour. From Napier to Upper Hutt is approx 4 hours. Travel back with a 11.5 meter bus hangin off and it will take more than 4 hours. So I recon they were decent towards me... And it was on a Sunday...

Ridiculous pricing.

I would suspect that if this ended up in small claims (I think that the amount you are dealing with is to much to be heard in small claims, some Internet expert will google it for us, in true forum style), that the chances of you not having to refund something would be quite slim...... The fact that you towed it back (showing some level of admitting responsibility ) will count against you.... In cases like these, it is all about " what a reasonable person would expect"

In regards to you towing it back "because it was still registered in your name" unfortunately also does not count in your favour.

IF (big IF) the time between this van breaking down, and the post shop opening on Monday, it was to attract the attention of the powers that be, and receive a ticket(s), you would, with-out a doubt be able to prove that as of (insert time and date here) you where no longer either in possession, or the owner of said vehicle....

The law, as big an ass as it sometimes may seem, is not so silly as to be able to make allowances for this sort of event.

The only real proof of tis would need to be the bank transfer details.

Any lawyer worth a pinch of shit would be able to prove this.... And your average reasonable every day person much the same.

Also, this geezer will be more than a little lucky not to be charged with various drive offences with regards to to road worthiness etc.

In my opinion, towing it back is going to count against you, 50/50 on the rest of the money.

Buyer be ware.

[FJRider]

Change the ownership into his name, give him a full refund & then abandon it in the short term parking at the International Airport.

Um ... The HB doesnt actually have an "International airport" ... or do you think he should TOW it back to Wellington ... ???

[Conquiztador]

Yep. I knew that towing it back would most probably be working against me. And from the moment he drove it out the gate it was his.

Sadly I am a responsible citizen, and as he clearly told me that he had left the keys in the bus and had walked away and did not want it, I felt that the responsible thing would be to get it off the road and back to a safe place. (My storage in HB where I would have some controll over the thing).

In hidsight I shoud have told him: "Fuck off, your problem now".

I realise he will have very little chance to get his $6K back. The only thing he has for it is the bus that is now back at my storage. And really, I am not too worried re re-selling it as I had quite few interested and offers. He was just the first to deposit the payment.

So I am leaning towards paying him the $6K less the towing fee back. Or offering him to come pick it up after he has paid for towing. I clearly have to conclude any deals with him before I resell.

One lesson learnt is to do the change of ownership BEFORE any motorvehicle is driven away. Said that, in 25 years of privately selling and buying cars, bikes and some other bits, this has never been a problem. But I suppose it would have to pop up at some stage.

[FJRider]

Ridiculous pricing.

Apart from the fact that having a vehicle capable of doing the tow ... WITH a licenced operator/driver ... with any applicable permits to tow a non REG/COF vehicle ... with little business competition, in the province/area ... the cost would be reasonable to expect ...


I would suspect that if this ended up in small claims (I think that the amount you are dealing with is to much to be heard in small claims, some Internet expert will google it for us, in true forum style), that the chances of you not having to refund something would be quite slim...... The fact that you towed it back (showing some level of admitting responsibility ) will count against you.... In cases like these, it is all about " what a reasonable person would expect"

Should he wish to take it to court ... small claims or otherwise ... the Police may wish to talk to him regards driving it with no COF/Rego ... then abandoning it in/near Upper Hutt ...


In regards to you towing it back "because it was still registered in your name" unfortunately also does not count in your favour.

A reciept was given for money given/bus recieved ... ownership was not able to be done in weekends in the HB ... and by monday it was BACK in the HB ... and the buyer did state he didn't want it ...


IF (big IF) the time between this van breaking down, and the post shop opening on Monday, it was to attract the attention of the powers that be, and receive a ticket(s), you would, with-out a doubt be able to prove that as of (insert time and date here) you where no longer either in possession, or the owner of said vehicle....

He did have a reciept ...


The law, as big an ass as it sometimes may seem, is not so silly as to be able to make allowances for this sort of event.

The only real proof of tis would need to be the bank transfer details.

Any lawyer worth a pinch of shit would be able to prove this.... And your average reasonable every day person much the same.

Also, this geezer will be more than a little lucky not to be charged with various drive offences with regards to to road worthiness etc.

In my opinion, towing it back is going to count against you, 50/50 on the rest of the money.

Buyer be ware.

I doubt if the Police would argue that towing the bus back would have been a bad thing to do ... and unless a court case ensues ... I very much doubt they will have ANY interest in the proceedings ...

[Indiana_Jones]

Never hand the keys over until change of ownership is done.

Try and work something out with the bloke, of course keeping some cash for yourself for the towing etc. As for his flights he can get stuffed, that's the buyers risk.

If he's being a troublesome prick, is their a receipt of the sale? if not keep his cash and tell him to get stuffed.

-Indy

[fuknKIWI]

THIS IS A MOTORCYCLE FORUM
or are you referring to a gold wing?
& this is the rant or rave section:facepalm:

[gammaguy]

you cant re sell it.

it no longer belongs to you

unless you refund him by way of buying it back

[Wannabiker]

Registration does not always mean ownership......He owns the bus now...it is just registered in your name....

[sinfull]

Give ya 1.9 k for it !

[fuknKIWI]

Posession is 9/10ths of the law:shutup:

[Indiana_Jones]

You can ring up NZTA and get it changed to his name if you really want.

If he/NZTA refuse to shift it to his name, pocket the cash and bus

-Indy

[Brett]

I don't think I would be giving him much of his money back...he took delivery of a vehicle clearly advertised as not road legal. he then proceeded to drive the thing down country and damage it. Who knows how he was driving it up the Rimutaka's? What was he doing taking a bus in uncertain condition up there anyway...what if the brakes had failed?
He chose to take on that risk once he drive away in it, that would be how I would view it if I was on the buying side of the equation as well.
I would call him back and tell him that his bus is available for pick up within 7 days with an additional towage fee of $1,900 and that if he does not pick it up, it will be sold to defray costs with the remaining monies sent to him.

[imdying]

Tell him where his bus is. He brought it in a private sale, he owns it. Tell him that he has xxx days to remove it, or you'll be charging him storage fees. Send him a bill for the $1900+GST he now owes you for having it towed at his request. Set a final payment date. Once that final date has expired, go to the Disputes Tribunal for the money he now owes you (including the loss of value on the bus due to a now fucked engine). Make sure the hearing is in your town not his. He won't attend, and then won't pay, so then you'll need to get a payment order taken out on him. All very easy, very cheap, very fun. Enjoy. He has paid you for it, he now owns it, the registered ownership (or even possession of the bus) does not constitute ownership. If he takes you to the DT first, then enter a counter claim.

[PrincessBandit]

Tell him where his bus is. He brought it in a private sale, he owns it. Tell him that he has xxx days to remove it, or you'll be charging him storage fees. Send him a bill for the $1900+GST he now owes you for having it towed at his request. Set a final payment date. Once that final date has expired, go to the Disputes Tribunal for the money he now owes you (including the loss of value on the bus due to a now fucked engine). Make sure the hearing is in your town not his. He won't attend, and then won't pay, so then you'll need to get a payment order taken out on him. All very easy, very cheap, very fun. Enjoy. He has paid you for it, he now owns it, the registered ownership (or even possession of the bus) does not constitute ownership. If he takes you to the DT first, then enter a counter claim.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me. methinks conquistador is just too nice for his own good.

[Conquiztador]

That sounds pretty reasonable to me. methinks conquistador is just too nice for his own good.

Yes, apart from the point where he actually did not ask me to tow it back, he told me that he did not want it and did not care what I did with it. I told him that I would tow it back to HB. But that does not change much.

I will later this week give him the ultimatums and we go from there.

Thanks to all who have given me their input. Highly valuable.

[ducatilover]

Receipt of sale = it is legally his.
His problem.
He can refund you for towing it, it's fair, you towed HIS vehicle.
You should charge him for your time.
You should charge him for storage.
You should charge him for a possibly angry wife who won't put out.

That is all.

[crystalball]

Yes, apart from the point where he actually did not ask me to tow it back, he told me that he did not want it and did not care what I did with it. I told him that I would tow it back to HB. But that does not change much.

I will later this week give him the ultimatums and we go from there.

Thanks to all who have given me their input. Highly valuable.
Let us know how you get along. he brought it he owns it.

[Indiana_Jones]

Were the words 'as is, where is' used in the ad at all?

Cause if they were, this guy has pretty much nothing to stand on.

-Indy

[Conquiztador]

On recommendation of my lawyer I offered him two options with a weeks deadline:

1. I refund his money less the towing fee and the deal is over.

2. He can have the bus as long as he pays the towing fee and then removes the bus from our property.

He has rejected both and tells me he will have his lawyer contact me.

Will update as developes.

[Dadpole]

The way I see it is option 1 should be an offer to refund his money less the towing fee and the cost of any repairs to the engine and clutch if he stuffed them.

[FJRider]

The way I see it is option 1 should be an offer to refund his money less the towing fee and the cost of any repairs to the engine and clutch if he stuffed them.

The $4000 remaining should cover that ...

[paturoa]

The way I see it is option 1 should be an offer to refund his money less the towing fee and the cost of any repairs to the engine and clutch if he stuffed them.

+1 for that - he bought it and clearly it is in worse condition that when he bought it.

[Conquiztador]

As he has now rejected both my offers I will charge for storage and repairs. End result should be that his $6K will just disappear...

[Indiana_Jones]

Silly knob should of taken your reasonable offer in the first place. His money is long gone now.....

-Indy

[gatch]

Have the mods delete this thread. Fill the bus with fertilizer and diesel, then roll it off a cliff. Kill the guy and eat his remains.

Now you have nearly $4k to spend on hookers and blow.

[Paul in NZ]

Have the mods delete this thread. Fill the bus with fertilizer and diesel, then roll it off a cliff. Kill the guy and eat his remains.

Now you have nearly $4k to spend on hookers and blow.

You seen the price of fertilizer and diesel mate?

You might have enough left for a big mac and a stick book. Hardly worth it

[Conquiztador]

He has just threatened to go to the newspapers... Good plan, will show that I am not interested in be ripped off. He tells that he will tell them his story if he does not get $8K... Has he just added blackmail to the list??

[SS90]

He has just threatened to go to the newspapers... Good plan, will show that I am not interested in be ripped off. He tells that he will tell them his story if he does not get $8K... Has he just added blackmail to the list??


Haha, comedy gold.

Just suggest that he should take you to the disoutes tribunal, it is seen as a reasonable thing to do by many people.

If he feels he has a case, then he should be OK with it.

Never give in to a bully!

[JMemonic]

Screw it forget disputes, lay a charge of blackmail with the Police, and bill the prick for the tow and storage of his property.

[pzkpfw]

Screw it forget disputes, lay a charge of blackmail with the Police, and bill the prick for the tow and storage of his property.

+1

Then send him the evidence. Even if the cops don't take it seriously, he'll be seeing that you are taking it seriously, and won't be bullied.

(Ask him if his lawyer suggested the blackmail, or if he made it up himself when his lawyer told him he had no case.)

[Bender]

I think the upper limit of the disputes tribunal is 7K, so if he's asking for 8, he just priced himself into the High Court.

The other thing is not to dispute any payment to him. Ignore it. If there is no dispute, as in a letter telling him to bugger off, the disputes tribunal can't hear the case.

I'd just totally ignore him other than to tell him his property is there for him to pick up. That makes it incredibly hard for him to do anything at all because what he is now trying to do is make it personal.

Then do the disposal thing - I think you have to send him a letter, and put a public notice in the paper saying the property, if not picked up by a certain date, will be sold to defray expenses.

[Edbear]

Receipt of sale = it is legally his.
His problem.
He can refund you for towing it, it's fair, you towed HIS vehicle.
You should charge him for your time.
You should charge him for storage.
You should charge him for a possibly angry wife who won't put out.

That is all.

Millionnaires can't afford that! :blink:


The way I see it is option 1 should be an offer to refund his money less the towing fee and the cost of any repairs to the engine and clutch if he stuffed them.

Yup!


He has just threatened to go to the newspapers... Good plan, will show that I am not interested in be ripped off. He tells that he will tell them his story if he does not get $8K... Has he just added blackmail to the list??


Screw it forget disputes, lay a charge of blackmail with the Police, and bill the prick for the tow and storage of his property.

Yup!

[sil3nt]

I feel this thread has failed to deliver.

[Indiana_Jones]

:woohoo: bruuuuuuuuum

-Indy

[mashman]

I feel this thread has failed to deliver.

similar to the bus :shutup:

[TrentNz]

Should i leave a gearbox on his doorstep :yes:

[Latte]

Should i leave a gearbox on his doorstep :yes:

Ahh that was epic.

[TrentNz]

just had to be said haha :innocent:

[Trade_nancy]

[R RATED][/R RATED]
Hey! I'd like to hear an update on this saga...whatz happened about the bus??????????

[Conquiztador]

Hey! I'd like to hear an update on this saga...whatz happened about the bus??????????

Well... The chap threatened with court proceedings but I have heard nothing. In fact nothing since I last wrote.

He paid the money, left it on the road, I got it towed back for a cost and asked him to reimburse me. I had my lawyer contact him, he thretened to take me to court, we said "fine" lets do that. Then he threatened me with the newspapers. And that was the last of it.

The bus is sitting on our property. I have his money and I have the bus. I have had heaps other things on and so I have done nothing more. But really need to close this chapter. Thanks for the reminder!

[Indiana_Jones]

Toss it up on tardme, send a link to the muppet who brought it and wait....

-Indy

[skippa1]

Toss it up on tardme, send a link to the muppet who brought it and wait....

-Indy

3 adverts in the paper warning him that yoyu will sell to defray storage costs

[Conquiztador]

3 adverts in the paper warning him that yoyu will sell to defray storage costs

Interesting angle...

[Indiana_Jones]

3 adverts in the paper warning him that yoyu will sell to defray storage costs

Sounds good

As long as you give the knob sack some warning

-Indy

[oldrider]

Have a look at the boat thread on here! ........ Sorted!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/146214-What-are-my-legal-obligations

[bikaholic]

KB roadtrip?

[Murray]

I'm looking to buy a bus and boat with tralior - anyone know any good deals going:killingme

[St_Gabriel]

I'm looking to buy a bus and boat with tralior - anyone know any good deals going:killingme

Cant say I have seen a boat towing a trailer lately :bleh: