Do I want a flip front helmet?

[nzspokes]

Thinking about a new lid. Are flip fronts a good idea? Or do they just add weight?

Say something like this, http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/425-flip_face/5361-givi_hx08_modular_flip_face_he.aspx

Doesnt have to be that one though.

[hellokitty]

My Dad has a BMW one and loves it - I can see the benefits - flip the front up at the gas station etc rather than taking helmet off.
Ask people that have them - I was talking to a guy (Caseye I think) and he said that his wife had a flip front helmet that broke when she had a accident. I would worry about that.... Surely there must be testing and statistics ??

[nzspokes]

My Dad has a BMW one and loves it - I can see the benefits - flip the front up at the gas station etc rather than taking helmet off.
Ask people that have them - I was talking to a guy (Caseye I think) and he said that his wife had a flip front helmet that broke when she had a accident. I would worry about that.... Surely there must be testing and statistics ??

Yeah that bothers me. I would love a Shoei Qwest. But $700!!. :facepalm:

Ive tried one and its sooo nice. But not flip.

[Urano]

Are flip fronts a good idea?


nope.

problems with flip-ups are mainly two:

1- as you said, they are heavy. and they cost more than full face. and they are intrinsically less safe than full face (even if SHARP spots models with 100% safe mechanism...).

2- then there is the problem of their use. what do you want it for? the advantage is that you can enter in the dairy keeping the helmet and just flipping the chin guard. or that you can wear it without taking off your glasses, or that you can smoke a cigarette in the parking with the helmet on.
are those "advantages" real, and more important than the said drawbacks? in my opinion no, they are not.
and much more than that, there is always the possibility that you'd be tempted in riding with the chin guard up, which is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than riding with a jet helmet.


so...
if you want the possibility to go "en plein air", buy a givi x01 instead...
but i've got it, and i'll buy a normal full face next...

[scumdog]

Just go with an open face - they still make them you know so they must be safe...:whistle::corn:

[hellokitty]

:yes: well said Urano.

[hellokitty]

Just go with an open face - they still make them you know so they must be safe...:whistle::corn:

:sick: and eat all those bugs? (As well as the obvious safety issues and the fact I love my teeth)

[nzspokes]

nope.

problems with flip-ups are mainly two:

1- as you said, they are heavy. and they cost more than full face. and they are intrinsically less safe than full face (even if SHARP spots models with 100% safe mechanism...).

2- then there is the problem of their use. what do you want it for? the advantage is that you can enter in the dairy keeping the helmet and just flipping the chin guard. or that you can wear it without taking off your glasses, or that you can smoke a cigarette in the parking with the helmet on.
are those "advantages" real, and more important than the said drawbacks? in my opinion no, they are not.
and much more than that, there is always the possibility that you'd be tempted in riding with the chin guard up, which is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than riding with a jet helmet.


so...
if you want the possibility to go "en plein air", buy a givi x01 instead...
but i've got it, and i'll buy a normal full face next...

Thats fair. You convinced me. Normal full then. Going to go try the Shoei. Not much else to do on a rainy sunday than bug m/cycle retailers.

[Laava]

I have a shoei multitec and to be honest would not have another flip front. More because of noise and hassle factor than safety.
However a pinlock is a must IMO.

[Corse1]

Never had a problem with my Nolan flip front. It is a little quieter than my AGV...I would never buy another one though. As said the benefits are just not there.

[george formby]

I use a Caberg, not the quietest or lightest helmet but not bad at all. The flip face is a boon for petrol. shops, talking to Constabules etc but by far the biggest thing is the internal sun visor. Worth it's weight in gold IMHO.

If you do come off & bang your head the helmet just need to do it's job once, any helmet goes in the bin after a bounce.

If you forget to pull the front down when you ride off it's instantly noticeable, cold air on the chin hairs.

For me, the convenience out weighs any perception of less safety.

[Woodman]

I got a flip front and quite like it. Left it up once (forgot) and bent down to go under a tree branch and it almost took my head off, but otherwise they are fine.

[thepom]

I,ve had flip fronts,........2 bmw,s ,and now on a shoei multitec.......the bmw,s all fell apart and the shoei is by far the best .........when closed they are as safe as any full face and I ride most of the time with it up and as I like the wind in my face...............

[Urano]

when closed they are as safe as any full face

no, unfortunately it is not...



and I ride most of the time with it up and as I like the wind in my face

that's a huge problem mate.
as i've said this behavior is common to most bikers with flip helmets.

just consider this: ECE regulations need helmet to be tested on everything that exceed 2 mm (yep, two millimeters) above the shape surface.
everything, air vents, spoilers, visor levers... have to be tested to confirm that it's easily breakable and that wouldn't offer any locking point while sliding on the ground.
this to prevent that a spot will act as a pivot to start a rotational moment on your head. in ECE is included a slant crash test.
rotational damage are very dangerous on your brain, equally than direct impact ones and could have snapping effect on your neck too.

so you buy a 700$ helmet thought to be sleek and with all the 2 mm mess, then you deliberately decide to add on it 4 fingers of a chin guard left open...


if you like wind on your face buy an open face helmet. and keep good relations with your dentist...

[Oblivion]

I have one that I got as a first helmet. Like everyone else says, they are heavy things. Not to mention that they are loud even with it closed. Can't talk to myself when riding because my voice gets buffeted.

When this one goes, I'm getting a full face one. Even if it means going for a trip to the optometrists to get some contacts.

[bluninja]

I had a Nolan flip front. I got it so I didn't have to remove all the thermals round my head in winter when I filled up every day. Still had one gas station refuse to serve me with the helmet open, insisting I remove it, though they could see my full face.

I rode for 1200km a week all year round (in England) for 2 years with that helmet and found it comfortable and easy to live with. I found it very noisy ~(though I wear ear plugs anyway), and heavy; after a few years it seemed 'loose', but the closing mechanism was still positive and secure.

The good points were ease of putting on and taking off. And being able to stop, pop the front, chat without shouting for a few seconds, then pop it down and ride off.

It's great for those moments when you want the eleoquence of your epithets to be fully appreciated by the errant cage driver :)

My choice now is to return to a standard full face. Quieter and lighter.

[Gremlin]

As said, the flip front helmets are heavier than their counterparts, mostly because of the additional mechanisms involved. They are usually louder than the non-flip ones, but none are quiet enough to stop hearing loss, so I always use earplugs.

I have a Shoei Multitec and I currently won't go back to full face non-flipping helmets, because I love the practicality. Helmet gets removed less often, servos have less of a problem, I can drink and eat when I want etc. Even drink from a hydrabak while on the move, say, through towns.

As for danger in an accident, I was tumbling at 100kph, jaw never opened or anything like that, so while yes, they can technically open, provided you have a good quality one, then it should be on a par with a non-flip helmet.

[skippa1]

I have an LS2 flip front. Worst helmet I have ever had. Noisy, heavy, flew open on the Wellington motorway at speed and just about ripped me off the bike. Took it back to the shop and they sent it back to the supplier. "Ohh yes" they said, "there was a problem with the locking mechanisim, we will fix it on warranty". :shit:WTF??? since then I have had a Shoei XR1000 that I wrote off in an accident (worked a treat) and now have a Shoei Quest. The LS2 is a standby at home, I cant bring myself to wear it at all now. Shit idea. Just get a decent full face helmet.

[steve_t]

I also started with a flip front and, as others have said, it was heavy and noisy. It also started having problems latching securely and while I never crashed in it, I was wary that any impact to the chin region would probably crack it open. I'm gonna stick to full face from here I think. I have no problem taking the helmet off at servo's or going into any building really.
Oh while we're discussing helmet safety, I'm a big fan of Double D ring fasteners but know others who love their quick releasing latches. Has anyone read or heard of any issues with these latches?

[Griffin]

I have the Shoei MultiTec and love it. It may be a tad noisier and heavier but is incredibly convenient. Havent had to put it to the ultimate test yet and hopefully never will but I would hope that it would do as its designed to do and stay closed and protect my brain case. Shoei is good quality and a nice fitting lid... I would have to find a real good reason to go to a fullface.

Most m/cycle cops around the world wear flip face (for the practicality obviously) but I would imagine that they would have pretty stringent safety regs for what is protecting their boys in blue and wouldnt allow a dangerous or substandard piece of equipment to be used in their circumstances.

[DR650gary]

HJC flip front with push button clip. Never tested it but find it no less or more noisy than the Shoei fullface I replaced. A bit heavier I suppose but easy to use in banks, petrol stations without having to worry about it being nicked or dropped.

Wife has one as well which prompted me to go for mine.

Cheers

[Flip]

I have had 3 BMW flip 2xS2 and 1xS4, The BMW's only seem to last me 2-3 years before the lining falls apart. Now days I have a Shoei Multitec. So far the Shoei has been a much better, quiter and comfortable than any of the BMW lids.

I usually wear a open face half helm, just use the full face if it is cold or wet. My problem is I wear a size 64 and I wear glasses. There is fuck all full face helms I can get by big fat head into. Some of the expensive Arais fitted quite well but they were all race boy helmets and I am a old school kind of biker.

[nzspokes]

I have an LS2 flip front. Worst helmet I have ever had. Noisy, heavy, flew open on the Wellington motorway at speed and just about ripped me off the bike. Took it back to the shop and they sent it back to the supplier. "Ohh yes" they said, "there was a problem with the locking mechanisim, we will fix it on warranty". :shit:WTF??? since then I have had a Shoei XR1000 that I wrote off in an accident (worked a treat) and now have a Shoei Quest. The LS2 is a standby at home, I cant bring myself to wear it at all now. Shit idea. Just get a decent full face helmet.

What do you think of the Qwest?

[Maha]

A flip lid would be easier to clean puke out of...if ever you had too...:sick:

[skippa1]

What do you think of the Qwest?

Best helmet I have had. Its by far the quietest helmet I have worn and with a whisper kit, pinlock visor as standard and a vent system that really works, it is the best value for money I have had.

[nzspokes]

Best helmet I have had. Its by far the quietest helmet I have worn and with a whisper kit, pinlock visor as standard and a vent system that really works, it is the best value for money I have had.

Did you get a pinlock insert with it? And the nose piece etc? I get told different things by the shops as to what you get with it. I suspect some bits are removed and sold separate.

Also what do you think of the venting?

Im really keen on one.

[steve_t]

Did you get a pinlock insert with it? And the nose piece etc? I get told different things by the shops as to what you get with it. I suspect some bits are removed and sold separate.

Also what do you think of the venting?

Im really keen on one.

Qwest comes with a pinlock insert. Mine didn't come with a breath guard (nose piece) although the website says it does. I asked about it and was told it didn't come with one.

[skippa1]

Did you get a pinlock insert with it? And the nose piece etc? I get told different things by the shops as to what you get with it. I suspect some bits are removed and sold separate.

Also what do you think of the venting?

Im really keen on one.

I was there when they opened the box because it had just come in. No breath guard, pinlock was there as was the whisper kit. The chin vent helps clear the screen to, and the vents work really well. Good investment.

[nzspokes]

Qwest comes with a pinlock insert. Mine didn't come with a breath guard (nose piece) although the website says it does. I asked about it and was told it didn't come with one.

Hmmm, funny. One shop showed me breath guard and wisper kit, another told me pinlock insert and wisper kit.

[nzspokes]

I was there when they opened the box because it had just come in. No breath guard, pinlock was there as was the whisper kit. The chin vent helps clear the screen to, and the vents work really well. Good investment.

Cheers, I think that what I need.

[awa355]

I also started with a flip front and, as others have said, it was heavy and noisy. It also started having problems latching securely and while I never crashed in it, I was wary that any impact to the chin region would probably crack it open. I'm gonna stick to full face from here I think. I have no problem taking the helmet off at servo's or going into any building really.
Oh while we're discussing helmet safety, I'm a big fan of Double D ring fasteners but know others who love their quick releasing latches. Has anyone read or heard of any issues with these latches?

Re Double rings verses Clip catchs. I read some time ago, that all professional racers used the Double ring system. None used the Clip together chin strap system. I dont know if that is correct.

I have two helmets with both types and I prefer the clip together strap, just for the ease of doing up,. The writer I quote above, also said he had never heard of a clip release coming apart in an accident.

With Flip front v full face, I understand that testing the sheer strength of the chin piece is not part of the standard full face helmet testing requirements.

Some of the cheaper Flip tops, apparently, have plastic hinge components compared to metal on the dearer models. Perhaps that is a safety factor?

[Ender EnZed]

I have one that I got as a first helmet. Like everyone else says, they are heavy things. Not to mention that they are loud even with it closed. Can't talk to myself when riding because my voice gets buffeted.

When this one goes, I'm getting a full face one. Even if it means going for a trip to the optometrists to get some contacts.

Have you tried on a full face helmet? Most glasses are fine under a helmet, they'd have to have massive frames to cause a problem.

[NordieBoy]

Shit idea. Just get a decent full face helmet.

Or a decent flip face?

[NordieBoy]

Re Double rings verses Clip catchs. I read some time ago, that all professional racers used the Double ring system. None used the Clip together chin strap system. I dont know if that is correct.

It's the rules.


8.2.6 Only helmets with a strap retaining system are permitted.

I think that's what that means...

[sleemanj]

(on riding with flip up)


that's a huge problem mate.
as i've said this behavior is common to most bikers with flip helmets.


too right, I've even seen a bike cop riding flipped up once, I can only hope he just forgot at the time.

I think it'd actually be safer to ride without a helmet at all than with the flip up, it's just begging to snap your neck like a twig when that catches on something either as you're sliding down the road, or forget it's up and "duck" under something.

[Berg]

I watched a program on the gogglebox where a newish rider got cleaned up by a turning truck and trailer unit. The trailer wheels (fortunatly an unloaded trailer) ran right over his helmet with his head inside.
He was back on a bike in only 8 weeks due to wearing a bloody good full face helmet.
There was some doubt as to wether a open face or flip face would have stood up to that much crush due to the design.

[DR650gary]

I think it'd actually be safer to ride without a helmet at all than with the flip up, it's just begging to snap your neck like a twig when that catches on something either as you're sliding down the road, or forget it's up and "duck" under something.

When I started riding, helmets were optional, then became compulsory over 50kph (30 mph to the oldschoolers) and the same argument was put forward for fullface. "That big protusion under your chin must catch on something and snap your neck" so most of us rode with open face helmets or sometimes with a clip on plastic screen.

There are many levels of safety and the safest is to stay off the bike. I think the difference between most of the available approved helmets is in infintesimal degrees but the comfort and usability of the flip front does it for me.

Each to their own.

[4AGE]

I recently got glasses and they fit inside my arai fine. I actually like it as i can ride around town visor up and not get wind stinging my eyes.

[Indiana_Jones]

Got a RJays flip face helmet.

Handy for the gas stations etc, but that's about it.

Only helmet I could find in the shop that would work with my glasses.

Also it had D rings, I hate clips.

I can take 'em or leave 'em. Dare say I'll go back to a full face next time I'm buying.

-Indy

[Guided_monkey]

Nolan 102.

Good when filtering at low speeds. Improves side vision so I can spot the no indication, no look muppets.

I suspect that with front up the cagers actually 'see' a human face and not a faceless object.

Good for communicating with cagers...... "Your indicators not working?" "Did you actually look?" "Red means stop!":angry::angry:

[Zedder]

Since I've never taken my full face helmet off at a dairy or gas station and never been asked to, I haven't considered buying a flip front. A cheerful attitude seems to dispell any worries. Banks of course are a different story.

[4AGE]

Banks of course are a different story.
Really? They have never said anything to me before, probably distracted by the weapon in my hand.

[Zedder]

Really? They have never said anything to me before, probably distracted by the weapon in my hand.

Yeah, but when you yell that it's a robbery it comes out all muffled so you have to fire off a round and that tends to alert everyone in the neighbourhood.....

[GrayWolf]

Thinking about a new lid. Are flip fronts a good idea? Or do they just add weight?
Say something like this,Doesnt have to be that one though.

There are pro's and con's for ALL styles of helmets. I have ridden with full face, spent a good 20 yrs riding with open face, and now only own flip fronts.
Can they come open? I guess it's like asking if side intrusion beams in a car door will give way? If the impact force is sufficient? Then I'd agree possibly yes. But would you be 'worrying about it' at that level of impact force?
They may be a little heavier, but the I would not want a light flip front. I beleive some of the horror stories concerning flip fronts coming open, revolve around cheap plastic helmets with plastic/cheaply made locking mechanisms.
They are noisier, (I wear ear plugs anyway now) But I really dont think there are many negatives to them..
Advantages? Apart from talking, eating, drinking etc... in traffic or lane splitting? I get full peripheral vision and better 'hearing'...
I have no issiues with them, and would reccomend them, BUT buy quality not a 'cheap as' sub $200 lid, unless its a clearance special of a dearer helmet.

[Gremlin]

As something somewhat related, Motomail has Multitecs at on clearance. Usually $899, now $699, and Botany Honda has also been able to get one for me.

Don't need one, but at that price I can't not buy one, now can I?

[Matt_maverik]

I got a Caberg Justissimo GT online from the UK (so cheap with the good exchance rate) and love it. Would never get a helmet without a sun visor built in because I use it so often. Also just the convenience is unbeatable. Ill definitly be looking for a flip front next time :D

Matt

[James Deuce]

It's better than a flip top head! Boom, tish!

[Tigadee]

I'm going for a flip front too. I wear glasses and it is really difficult to wear a full face.

Also it's mostly the flip fronts which seem to have internal tinted sun visors, which is really important to me because I have sensitive eyes.

[PrincessBandit]

I'd never ride with my Evoline flipped open - but for backing my bike, especially into narrow spaces, flipping the chin guard up gives me superior visual sense. Having had issues in the past trying to roll my bike backwards into the garage between a car and a large concrete planter hanging from the deck (and pavers which have an unpleasant slippy feeling when one of your tyres catches the edge) the extra line of sight is a big plus.

[Rhubarb]

I have an Oxford Flip Front helmet - I love it.

A Givi HX08 would have been my first choice but my budget didn't extend that far (What price do you put on safety? In a perfect world we would all have the best of the best. In my world I have limited funds for such things).

I never ride with the front flipped up, I didn't buy it to use as an open face.
I don't find it noisey. I have put small speakers in it for some background music and I can still hear the engine and all other outside sounds.

We do long rides (100's & 100's of k's at a time). My bike has a drink bottle holder and if we've stopped for a short time to discuss route options I'll have a drink.
It's also really good to be able to talk when stopped without yelling through a helmet.

It makes manouvering my bike backwards into my garage or parks heaps easier as I can see more.

One day I'll replace it ............... with another flip-front. Perhaps a Givi or a Nolan.

[riffer]

Add my name to the list of Multitech lovers. had mine for three years and it's fantastic. I hate taking my glasses off to put on the helmet. Dont' have to with the Shoei. Comes with the Whisper kit, and two visors (clear and tinted) and pinlock anti-fog.

Great helmet.

[eatonm62]

I think a flip up is bad JujU.

Why go for less protection when you can get better.

A friend of mine used to wear one.

Anyway he and a buddy stopped for a smoke just before entering a mountain tunnel, it was a windy day.

After they finished they proceeded to ride through the tunnel and as he came out through the other side and was leaning into a turn his lid flipped open and his neck jerked back due to the strong head wind.

He ended up crashing into the guard rails at 90 km/h, he survived with a broken hand.It seems the clasp did not lock when he flipped the lid down.

[NordieBoy]

I think a flip up is bad JujU.

Why go for less protection when you can get better.

He ended up crashing into the guard rails at 90 km/h, he survived with a broken hand.It seems the clasp did not lock when he flipped the lid down.

I make sure it's latched.

I think not checking things is bad JuJu.

[James Deuce]

Yes, the helmet made him crash. Just like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.

[Usarka]

I thought the wind made him crash. Never ride when it's windy.

[DanM]

I own two Nolan n103s I find they're awesome helmets. Being a spectacles wearer I can't rate the internal visor highly enough it's perfect for daily/all weather riders, especially with the bluetooth kit for gps/hands-free calls/inter-passenger coms.

The flip-face is great for glasses, servos and ease of access and I find it isn't much more noisy than my full-face Shoei, though it IS a bit heavier.

If you're going for a tech-helmet you really get what you pay for. I've had an LS2, and they're pretty nasty, the latches are unreliable, the visor mechanism becomes flimsy and unresponsive over time and the windshield ratchet loses its grip.
The Nolan has had none of these issues, as well as it has some excellent advantages, little things like pinlock anti-fog, an auto-close feature on the windshield when you pop the face, and a two-stage latch for opening the face, with a positive, audible click when the face is closed and locked.

Just sayin'

[caspernz]

Flip face helmet, if you buy a decent one, is pretty convenient compared to a full face. As for not locking down properly, if you can't manage that...take the bus. I've gone from Shoei fullface to Shoei Multitec, with Shoei being my preferred brand, but any decent quality helmet would be much the same.

The logic with buying cheap only works if you've got a cheap head I reckon....

[NordieBoy]

The logic with buying cheap only works if you've got a cheap head I reckon....

Define cheap.

[caspernz]

Define cheap.

Well that's up to the purchaser to decide really isn't it?

I believe it was Barry Sheene who responded to the question: "Would it be a good idea to buy a $10 helmet?" With the pearler: "Sure, if you've got a $10 head."

[davebullet]

Schuberth C3 flip - no wind turbulence, integrated sun visor, pinlock visor.

All other helmets are noisy by comparison. Zero wind turbulence inside the helmet. You get a nice snug fit around your neck and no buffeting turning your head to check at speed.

There is a product called "wind jammer" or something that prevents wind noise on a full face. NEver tried it though.

[NordieBoy]

I believe it was Barry Sheene who responded to the question: "Would it be a good idea to buy a $10 helmet?" With the pearler: "Sure, if you've got a $10 head."

Yes but...
1. Barry Sheene would not have bought helmets. He'd look at one, go "Mmmm" and it'd get handed over.
2. A $10 helmet with a Snell sticker has passed the same tests as a $1000 helmet with a Snell sticker.

I buy helmets priced up to about $150 usually although I just saw a very nice Airoh MX helmet in a catalog yesterday. $600 odd and 975g :shit: My KBC flip front is 1700g!

[aws]

I've got both an LS2 and a Nolan N103 - both flip front with internal sun visors. The LS2 was good for a start, but the Nolan is much nicer. They are both quite noisy, but then I always wear plugs. They're also quite heavy, however I don't think it makes much difference once on the bike. The Nolan is a lot better fit, less drafty inside the helmet, doesn't leak as much water down the inside of the visor, and just feels better.

A lot of people like the Multitec, but it lacks a sun visor, so I'd never consider it. An internal sun visor is just the best.

I'm really pleased with the Nolan and wouldn't go back to a full face. I love the convenience at the petrol station and reversing the bike is a snap.

Both have secure chin locking mechanisms, although the LS2 was sometimes a little too secure and difficult to unlock. I never ride any distance with the face up, partly for safety, but they just catch too much wind at any speed.

Both helmets also have quick release chin straps. Again, I wouldn't buy a helmet without them. The clips are similar to ski boot clasps and if they can survive that sort of punishment, then they'll easily outlast my neck!

I find it interesting how people suggest that they'd err on the side of safety and avoid a possible weak link such as the flip chin. I wonder how many of those same people have ultra light helmets rather than erring on the side of safety and going with a slightly heavier helmet? Surely the same logic must be applied and the heavier helmet must be safer?