Righteous indignance

[Katman]

It occurs to me that crying out in righteous indignance only really has a chance of working if one is seen to bear the slightest resemblance to being righteous.

As we head back into the killing season, is it not perhaps time for BRONZ to sit back and recognise the beam in our own eye and take steps to rein in some of the recklessness displayed by many motorcyclists?

Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

[nodrog]

It occurs to me that crying out in righteous indignance only really has a chance of working if one is seen to bear the slightest resemblance to being righteous.

As we head back into the killing season, is it not perhaps time for BRONZ to sit back and recognise the beam in our own eye and take steps to rein in some of the recklessness displayed by many motorcyclists?

Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

Wanna root?

[Katman]

Wanna root?

Can't you tell? - I've got a headache.

[shrub]

Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

So what are these constraints?

[Katman]

So what are these constraints?

For a start......

Treating the road as something we share equally with all other road users - instead of as a personal racetrack.

Trying to be as little of a burden to society as we reasonably can instead of having the attitude that our actions are no-one's business but our own.

[saxet]

Well I've got no problem with that.

[shrub]

For a start......

Treating the road as something we share equally with all other road users - instead of as a personal racetrack.

OK, I assume you're talking speed? I think you have started a fight that cannot be won because performance is one of the most attractive parts of a motorcycle. However if we want to gain the support of Mike and Mary Pajero, you're right, blitzing past them on a corner is not a good idea, but will they notice if most of us change our behaviour?


Trying to be as little of a burden to society as we reasonably can instead of having the attitude that our actions are no-one's business but our own

Hmmm... not sure what you mean there mate, and that's a philosophy that flies in the face of the modern mindset that "as long as I'm OK nobody else matters".

[Katman]

Hmmm... not sure what you mean there mate, and that's a philosophy that flies in the face of the modern mindset that "as long as I'm OK nobody else matters".

And while you stay OK, maybe nobody else does matter.

But when it all turns to shit there's plenty of others who get to suffer through your actions.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wanna root?

Slut!!!!!!

[avgas]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/138/c/f/Yu_Gi_Oh_still_makes_no_sense_by_Natural_Antagonis t.png
http://static4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Shhhh+_7e1784fc1d46c51057cbb07638ccc0c0.gif

[BAY CITY MOTORCYCLES]

Slut!!!!!!

Oh mate you have no idea with this dude!

[bluninja]

It occurs to me that crying out in righteous indignance only really has a chance of working if one is seen to bear the slightest resemblance to being righteous.

I want action not tears.


As we head back into the killing season, is it not perhaps time for BRONZ to sit back and recognise the beam in our own eye and take steps to rein in some of the recklessness displayed by many motorcyclists?

So who gave them rights to speak on other bikers behalf, let alone rights to try controlling them? I would agree that an organisation trying to effect change should try to be balanced in their spoutings to gain traction with the general public.



Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

Is that we ("I'm a member of BRONZ"), or we (I'm a motrocyclist in NZ)?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oh mate you have no idea with this dude!

Actually...I was just 'borrowing' from him!

[shrub]

And while you stay OK, maybe nobody else does matter.

But when it all turns to shit there's plenty of others who get to suffer through your actions.

Yeah, been there, done that - I nearly killed myself on a bike in 82 and as a father I can't imagine how my parents would have felt as they waited for me to get out of intensive care - nearly 2 weeks.

I think the key to changing behaviour amongst riders is to get people to realise that they're not invincible, and that applies to ALL of us. I ride every day, have done lots of courses etc, I like to think I know what I'm doing, and the last time I had an off was when a Katana 1100 was a state of the art superbike, but a couple of weeks ago I had a big wake up call. I was in a hurry, the roads were wet and the car I was following didn't do what I was expecting, so long story short I came very close to binning it. It was slow speed, so the odds are good nobody would be hurt; but I didn't pay attention to what was going on, I expected another road user to do something specific without checking with him first and I allowed being in a hurry to determine how I rode. I am ashamed to admit it, but what saved me was the guy in the lane beside me seeing what was happening and giving me space.

I am fucking glad it happened though because it reminded me that crashes don't care how good a rider you think you are.

[Katman]

I would agree that an organisation trying to effect change should try to be balanced in their spoutings to gain traction with the general public.


Along with being "balanced in their spoutings" there needs to be an understanding that life is full a compromises. Before we can expect to have the right to demand anything we need to realise that something is expected of us in return.

Slashing the dollar figure that we cost the country would be a great start.

[Katman]

And before anyone starts crying "but their figures are full of shit", I don't actually care what the figure is.

It's way higher than it needs to be.

[Maha]

It occurs to me that crying out in righteous indignance only really has a chance of working if one is seen to bear the slightest resemblance to being righteous.

As we head back into the killing season, is it not perhaps time for BRONZ to sit back and recognise the beam in our own eye and take steps to rein in some of the recklessness displayed by many motorcyclists?

Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

Several well constructed sentences there Steve that I agree with.

I guess from where I sit/stand, its starts at grass roots, as it does in the work place with apprentiships etc..habbits areformed early on, the bright ones sift through those habbits and come away with the ones that result in near perfection (to coin a phrase)
It is far to late for some to recognise that thier riding habbits may have an adverse affect on others around them on the road.
If the dumb shit can be erased from the memory bank early on, then there is a chance that those learning the trade (in this case Motorcycling etiquette) wont try to emulate the idiot shit they see while riding with others.

Case in point: I saw a young fulla picking his bike up off the road a few weeks back. We had just left a lunch stop and he thought it was a good idea to slalom weave his bike to warm up the tyres while dragging the front break to also warm the breaks!
He had been riding for four months, where the fuck did he pick up this smart idea?
I am pretty sure that he wont ever do that dumb shit again.

[avgas]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/419894260_948d956376_o.jpg

I probably should care more. But this is more fun.

[bluninja]

Along with being "balanced in their spoutings" there needs to be an understanding that life is full a compromises. Before we can expect to have the right to demand anything we need to realise that something is expected of us in return.


Understand that 'rights' granted to anyone will almost always infringe on the freedoms of others. We don't have a right to demand anything as bikers whether we are squids or whiter than the driven snow.

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. If I discharge my responsibilities to keep myself and others safe on the roads, and others do likewise, then we should not be concerned about rights. The rule of law is about infringing and removing peoples rights.

Life is not about compromises. Compromises mean nobody gets what they want. I could let government wrap me in a 'safe' bubble, and follow all the health and exercise advice. I may not live any longer, but it would feel like it.

I tell you what. I'll do my part. I won't monowheel down pedestrian filled pavements, go roundabout surfing with titanium knee sliders, get caught doing in excess of 200 kph on an open public road, and I will work hard to keep myself, my bike, and other users from harm as a result of my actions.

Hey maybe we shoudl create a pledge site....a sort of 'bikers ring thing'. :facepalm:

[Daffyd]

Righteous Indignation?

[Katman]

Righteous Indignation?

Don't worry - I checked on dictionary.com first.

[Daffyd]

Don't worry - I checked on dictionary.com first.

Must be another one of those awful americanisms.

[Katman]

Must be another one of those awful americanisms.

Yes, sort of like those awful Welshisms, David.

[pritch]

Don't worry - I checked on dictionary.com first.

Perhaps an English Dictionary next time?

I just checked mine and was relieved to see "indignance" is conspicuous by its absence.

[cheshirecat]

Would there a case for getting more involved with this Motorcycle Advisory Goup thinghy that we haven't heeard much from recenly then.

[MSTRS]

... personal responsibility...and ... work hard to keep myself, my bike, and other users from harm as a result of my actions.


That is all that is required to achieve the improvement that KM et al would like to see.

[oldrider]

It occurs to me that crying out in righteous indignance only really has a chance of working if one is seen to bear the slightest resemblance to being righteous.

As we head back into the killing season, is it not perhaps time for BRONZ to sit back and recognise the beam in our own eye and take steps to rein in some of the recklessness displayed by many motorcyclists?

Until we are seen to be intolerant of those who show no regard for the constraints that supposedly apply to us all we will never be given a favourable ear.

While reading your post I couldn't help my subconscious reflecting upon the attitude we (think public) have toward the self policing records of a lot of professional groups etc!

Doctors, Lawyers, Police, to name a few! .... not much confidence expressed toward these is there!

Maybe we would do better to just rely upon independent judgements!

I understand and agree with your sentiments though, we could and should do a lot better! :yes:

[Murray]

Case in point: I saw a young fulla picking his bike up off the road a few weeks back. We had just left a lunch stop and he thought it was a good idea to slalom weave his bike to warm up the tyres while dragging the front break to also warm the breaks!
He had been riding for four months, where the fuck did he pick up this smart idea?
I am pretty sure that he wont ever do that dumb shit again.

What doesnt everyone do this??. I would add that while doing this you should also stand up on the footpegs and bounce up and down to loosen the suspension. everyone knows that!!

[Edbear]

That is all that is required to achieve the improvement that KM et al would like to see.

Perzackery! :yes:

[paturoa]

I'm not liking the conclusion I'm slowly reaching towards over the last few killing seasons.

Its that there is a small percentage of people who unconsiously subscribe to the Darwin Principal. It dosen't matter whether they drive, ride, boat, swim or what ever, they kill themselves and others. Randomness determines who amongst them and us, lives or dies.

Buggered if I know how to identify them, but I'm all out of enthusiasm to consume oxygen thinking about them.

What I'd like to hear is ideas on how we can identify those that we can influence, and how we go about influencing them.

I do agree with K's thought that the various organisations should be calling out saying, "don't be dickheads and kill yourselves".

[riffer]

Hang on... are you advocating that BRONZ change focus to become safety shills?

Plenty of others already doing that.

[Katman]

Hang on... are you advocating that BRONZ change focus to become safety shills?


No Simon (even though I have no idea what safety shills are).

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.

BRONZ will not be taken seriously by the powers that be while they pretend that our shit doesn't stink.

[thepom]

I think they are making up for it by the doubling of speeding tickets since last year........:bye:

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.


We are??? since when???

[BMWST?]

No Simon (even though I have no idea what safety shills are).

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.

BRONZ will not be taken seriously by the powers that be while they pretend that our shit doesn't stink.

why dont you enlighten us how Bronz could do that

[bogan]

What I'd like to hear is ideas on how we can identify those that we can influence, and how we go about influencing them.

This is definitely worthy of consideration. How many would such a message from bronz reach and would it affect those who need reaching?

And how would such a statement effect bronz's reputation and credibility? we already have too many nanny state / PC bollocks, some might see this as more of the same and start to discount them as one of those organisations.

[bluninja]

That is all that is required to achieve the improvement that KM et al would like to see.

The thing is I've always done this....I've not been a crash monkey who in later life, having survived, sees the light and wants to evangelise. Perhaps darwinism is nothing to do with reflexes, balance, learning ability, or problem solving. Maybe it's about being born with a lucky gene.

I think setting the example every day with people you know and meet is a far more effective method at changing attitudes than any amount of vested interest groups spouting their propoganda.

As for posting in a motorbike forum, what's that going to achieve? :facepalm:

[riffer]

No Simon (even though I have no idea what safety shills are).

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.

BRONZ will not be taken seriously by the powers that be while they pretend that our shit doesn't stink.

I wasn't aware that BRONZ had ever taken that position Steve. Sounds like a good conversation to have over a beer next time I'm in Taupo.

[admenk]

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.


Maybe it's merely because we ride bikes :innocent:, and for whatever reason, governments and the powers that be tend not to like people who ride bikes. (I think they watched and believed too many 1960's biker movies!)

I totally agree that we should all strive to be safer and better riders, but I hate to say it, even if bike accident stats were zero, then they'd find something else to penalize us for :angry: Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but sometimes it seems that way.

[Bald Eagle]

I'm suggesting that BRONZ start expending some energy considering why we are facing the adverse attention that we are at the moment.

BRONZ will not be taken seriously by the powers that be while they pretend that our shit doesn't stink.

A lot of considering has been done on that subject by a lot of people. In my personal opinion it is a result of identification of a funding source that was seen as;
(a) Underexploited and
(b) Politically acceptable for action - i.e no negative voter impact anticipated.

It was not because we ride 2WMV's - that was a coincidence.

I believe you will find that BRONZ shit stinks the same as any other sort, and I'm not aware of any authorised BRONZ statement to the contrary.

[oneofsix]

A lot of considering has been done on that subject by a lot of people. In my personal opinion it is a result of identification of a funding source that was seen as;
(a) Underexploited and
(b) Politically acceptable for action - i.e no negative voter impact anticipated.

It was not because we ride 2WMV's - that was a coincidence.

I believe you will find that BRONZ shit stinks the same as any other sort, and I'm not aware of any authorised BRONZ statement to the contrary.

I think he has missed the point of BRONZ. IMO there are enough people already running around telling us how much our shit stinks and BRONZ is trying to balance this out and point out that ours stinks no more than theirs and therefore we have rights.
Its like trying to tell the AA to shut up about car matters until all car drivers drive properly.
The R in BRONZ does not stand for Responsibilities, that is handled by other organisation.

[avgas]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/IxtyCwgXrosfu563JJrNn5Tao1_500.jpg

[MSTRS]

The R in BRONZ does not stand for Responsibilities....

No, it doesn't. But is there a valid reason why it shouldn't as well?
After all, Rights go hand-in-hand with Responsibilities...

[theseekerfinds]

The thing is I've always done this....I've not been a crash monkey who in later life, having survived, sees the light and wants to evangelise. Perhaps darwinism is nothing to do with reflexes, balance, learning ability, or problem solving. Maybe it's about being born with a lucky gene.

I think setting the example every day with people you know and meet is a far more effective method at changing attitudes than any amount of vested interest groups spouting their propoganda.

As for posting in a motorbike forum, what's that going to achieve? :facepalm:

I think this is a great post.. now if only we could encapsulate the message onto a t-shirt so others knew how we felt.. messages on t-shirts seem to go so much further than the spoken word at getting messages out to the general and biking public.. :rockon:

[avgas]

No, it doesn't. But is there a valid reason why it shouldn't as well?
After all, Rights go hand-in-hand with Responsibilities...
Just like that version of the popular honda.

CBR250 Rights and Responsibilities

hang on

[Pseudonym]

Righteous Indigestion
Some will find having to be responsible for their actions hard to swallow.

[bluninja]

Righteous Indigestion
Some will find having to be responsible for their actions hard to swallow.

Like giving somone a blowjob without putting a condom on them?:sick:

[BigAl]

Righteous Indigestion
.

Righteous Indication

I need to turn here?

[Katman]

Like giving somone a blowjob without putting a condom on them?:sick:

Dunno - you're telling the story.

[bluninja]

Dunno - you're telling the story.

I was asking...are you answering?

[Pseudonym]

Righteous Indication

I need to turn here?

Turning righteous?
Use righteous indication.

As translated by the people who wrote the instructions for my TV.