Ducati making progress?

[Mental Trousers]

At the pre-race conference at Aragon Rossi is saying:


...The front part of the bike is a bit different and is aluminum and not carbon fibre like it was before...

Looks like they're finally doing what I thought they should've - test exactly the same parts in alloy so they can figure out exactly how carbon fibre changes the feel. They should make a hell of a lot more progress now.

Using a different design with a material that isn't fully understood means it's difficult to figure out if the design is wrong or if the material is causing a problem. So by going to an extremely well understood material they're now able to start isolating problems with the design.

Seems they're not looking to move to an aluminium frame, which in my opinion is a good thing. After all, if you want to go as fast as everyone else do what they do.

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2011-aragon-motogp-pre-race-conference

Also, pic of the bike from Toby Moody (note the alloy bit disappearing under the tank cover)

http://twitpic.com/6lawv2

[RobGassit]

Well you can't say they are not getting factory support. They have tried just about everything but lease a Honda. I'm sure they will get closer. I'd hate to see them pack up and go home.

[DidJit]

Check out the <del>shit fight</del> <del>fanboi-ism</del> difference of opinion (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/09/20/2011_aragon_motogp_post_race_round_up_pa.html) erupting in the comments section (if you have a half hour spare).

[Mental Trousers]

Moving to a twin spar frame is really disappointing. Ducati were really the only ones willing to innovate instead of being sheep.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Moving to a twin spar frame is really disappointing. Ducati were really the only ones willing to innovate instead of being sheep.

Yeah...but comes a time when the only important thing is results. Without them...sponsors etc soon abandon ship.

[SPman]

Vale's comments after the race....


"Looks like we don't fix a lot."


"Very difficult race... expect a bit better pace."


"I am not able to be fast."


And back again to "Looks like after a lot of races we don't fix nothing."


Oh dear.....

[tigertim20]

Moving to a twin spar frame is really disappointing. Ducati were really the only ones willing to innovate instead of being sheep.

i thought most of the other manufacturers had done some testing with carbon frames, and decided it wasnt really workable. Aluminium is the thing that seems to work for everyone else.
They say if it aint broke dont fix it, so, why fuck about with a design that s potentially holding you back?

[Mental Trousers]

i thought most of the other manufacturers had done some testing with carbon frames, and decided it wasnt really workable. Aluminium is the thing that seems to work for everyone else.
They say if it aint broke dont fix it, so, why fuck about with a design that s potentially holding you back?

Materials but not designs.

If you want to go as fast as everyone else do what they do. If you want to go faster, do something different. It's a gamble, but if you don't gamble you're almost always coming from behind and up against more money, more knowledge, more expertise etc.

[tigertim20]

Materials but not designs.

If you want to go as fast as everyone else do what they do. If you want to go faster, do something different. It's a gamble, but if you don't gamble you're almost always coming from behind and up against more money, more knowledge, more expertise etc.

yes, bt the more time they spend fucking around with an ill-fated material/design, the bigger that gap is going to get.Id like to see Hayden get an all alloy frame, and see how fast he goes on it compared to rossi. would be an interesting comparison.

[steve_t]

Isn't the carbon fibre making them slower?

[Mental Trousers]

They don't know how close they are to a solution though. That's the problem with not understanding a new design. They're trading a possible leap ahead of the competition to be as fast but not faster.

It's a shame they haven't been able to figure it out in the time they've had. Unfortunately all the money is going to dry up if they don't start getting results soon.

[steve_t]

So isn't the logical move to continue with the aluminium this season while they continue testing and improving the carbon off-track?

[bogan]

They don't know how close they are to a solution though. That's the problem with not understanding a new design. They're trading a possible leap ahead of the competition to be as fast but not faster.

It's a shame they haven't been able to figure it out in the time they've had. Unfortunately all the money is going to dry up if they don't start getting results soon.

More than that, is they could already have the solution. But all the riders are too used to the flex in ally that they need it to go fast.

[Mental Trousers]

Isn't the carbon fibre making them slower?


More than that, is they could already have the solution. But all the riders are too used to the flex in ally that they need it to go fast.

Both related questions.

The riders aren't able to interpret the feedback from both the chassis design and the carbon fibre. That's why they don't trust the front end, why they can't turn the thing as they'd like to, why they don't like having it at max lean for any length of time.

The design and material aren't inherently slower, it's just that the riders have been raised on the feel that metal frame designs provide and don't know how to interpret the feedback the monocoque frame and carbon fibre are providing (both individually and together)

[cowpoos]

So isn't the logical move to continue with the aluminium this season while they continue testing and improving the carbon off-track?

there is nothing that carbon fibre can not do that aluminium can....there are things that carbon fibre can do that aluminium can't....the main benefit of the change to carbon fibre is that they can rapidly change/modify it in hours. the fact that its made for carbon fibre has nothing to do with their issues...its just internet bullshit!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

the fact that its made for carbon fibre has nothing to do with their issues...its just internet bullshit!!

I don't actually believe that. For a start...the carbon bits are really short...as would be the alloy bits. But alloy as has been mentioned before has a certain amount of dampening inherantly built into it. CF does not. It 'snaps' back into place more violently.

[cowpoos]

I don't actually believe that. For a start...the carbon bits are really short...as would be the alloy bits. But alloy as has been mentioned before has a certain amount of dampening inherantly built into it. CF does not. It 'snaps' back into place more violently.

carbon firbre can have as much flex,damping,etc etc as you want...and far more precisely than metals...you name the physical property, you can build it in to a piece of carbon fibre weaved product....and I'm not kidding....carbon fibre axles on F1 cars are designed to twist 180 degrees...to dampen driveline shock, because of acceleration..the wings are designed to flex a certain way, a pecentage of the way down the wing, to a limited amount of flex..so as not to break any rules!!....the ability to design massive amounts of function into carbon fibre is amazing...seriously!!

as a development tool...its probally the long/slow way...once you have your parameters...mint!!

[cowpoos]

carbon firbre can have as much flex,damping,etc etc as you want...and far more precisely than metals...you name the physical property, you can build it in to a piece of carbon fibre weaved product....and I'm not kidding....carbon fibre axles on F1 cars are designed to twist 180 degrees...to dampen driveline shock, because of acceleration..the wings are designed to flex a certain way, a pecentage of the way down the wing, to a limited amount of flex..so as not to break any rules!!....the ability to design massive amounts of function into carbon fibre is amazing...seriously!!

as a development tool...its probally the long/slow way...once you have your parameters...mint!!

and for the record...the snap you talk about would relate to high tensile steels I would imagine...they have very good memory!!

[Brian d marge]

Mods can we put all these threads into one place ,,,,,,,

Hysteresis is different , and will have a different feed back to aluminum ,

Anyway , they are testing a twin spar later this week so we shall see

Stephen

[Shaun]

Mods can we put all these threads into one place ,,,,,,,

Hysteresis is different , and will have a different feed back to aluminum ,

Anyway , they are testing a twin spar later this week so we shall see

Stephen


exactually Stephen:yes: It is one thing to do research on the internet to understand a product technically, it takes real life experience with it to fully understand how it does react!

[steve_t]

Doh, never mind :innocent:

[DidJit]

Down to 1'39" (unofficially) @ Jerez (http://motomatters.com/news/2011/09/22/ducati_s_secret_jerez_test_rossi_faster_.html), but there's still (an alleged) 2" gap to Stoner's RC213V. Early days... but the clock is ticking. Gotta say, I find this Ducati development story interesting and exciting (though I'm sure riders, crews, engineers, bosses, sponsors etc could do without the stress.) ;)

[BMWST?]

Both related questions.

The riders aren't able to interpret the feedback from both the chassis design and the carbon fibre. That's why they don't trust the front end, why they can't turn the thing as they'd like to, why they don't like having it at max lean for any length of time.

The design and material aren't inherently slower, it's just that the riders have been raised on the feel that metal frame designs provide and don't know how to interpret the feedback the monocoque frame and carbon fibre are providing (both individually and together)
.also the reason i beleive that dfferent suspenson systems havent prgressed

[DidJit]

David Emmett sifts through the lap time rumours (http://motomatters.com/opinion/2011/09/27/the_fog_of_war_just_how_do_rossi_s_and_s.html)...

[Crasherfromwayback]

David Emmett sifts through the lap time rumours (http://motomatters.com/opinion/2011/09/27/the_fog_of_war_just_how_do_rossi_s_and_s.html)...

Bring on the Thous!!!

[codgyoleracer]

exactually Stephen:yes: It is one thing to do research on the internet to understand a product technically, it takes real life experience with it to fully understand how it does react!

Shaun, one assumes like me you have been through a number of "experimental projects " over the years - and its one of the great challenges to have a bike thats "easy" to ride a 9.5/tenths. Its incredible how a tiny modification sometimes literally 1-2 lbs of torque on a single bolt at some seemingly random place in the chassis or suspension can either smash apart your feel & feeback/confidence on a machine or totally solve a problem.
So my view on the alloy V carbon, is both materials on paper can possibly mimmick each other , however their individual "natural resonance" seems to be mysterious and unpredicatable when it comes to the infinatly variable forces placed through a motorcycle. Even a different riders style can bring out different traits in a bike, just through their own inputs aye.......
All part of the fun of course !

[Maido]

maybe they should employ a good development rider like Casey Stoner, I sure he would figure out how to ride it..........:facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

maybe they should employ a good development rider like Casey Stoner, I sure he would figure out how to ride it..........:facepalm:

Have you read the latest Aussie Motorcycle News? Very good article in it on Stoner and his skills.

[Mental Trousers]

Have you read the latest Aussie Motorcycle News? Very good article in it on Stoner and his skills.

That online anywhere or no??

[Crasherfromwayback]

That online anywhere or no??

Dunno mate. But I'll scan it and put it up tomorrow if you like

[Shaun]

Shaun, one assumes like me you have been through a number of "experimental projects " over the years - and its one of the great challenges to have a bike thats "easy" to ride a 9.5/tenths. Its incredible how a tiny modification sometimes literally 1-2 lbs of torque on a single bolt at some seemingly random place in the chassis or suspension can either smash apart your feel & feeback/confidence on a machine or totally solve a problem.
So my view on the alloy V carbon, is both materials on paper can possibly mimmick each other , however their individual "natural resonance" seems to be mysterious and unpredicatable when it comes to the infinatly variable forces placed through a motorcycle. Even a different riders style can bring out different traits in a bike, just through their own inputs aye.......
All part of the fun of course !




Yes I have and agree with what you are saying re the products. Once upon a time the Duc was fast and Stoner proved it, but since then all other brands have improved hugely.

There is NOT enough testing time allowed these days if you are trying to re create the wheel ie what Duc are doing

[Crasherfromwayback]

That online anywhere or no??

Ear ya go mate...247570

[johan]

great read, thanks for that!

[Crasherfromwayback]

great read, thanks for that!

No worries mate. I remember only too well when everyone was saying Stoner only won his title on the Ducati because of it's superior electronics. But anyone that's been his team mate will say the same thing. Total bollocks. It's his superior throttle control that wins him races. He'd be the first guy to vote for banning the electronics.

It's also why I love watching him race so much. He's often the most sideways racer around...especially at the really fast tracks. Awesome. Pity he wasn't around in the 500cc two stroke era.

[johan]

Yes, it's good to see him on a bike that matches his talent more closely

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yes, it's good to see him on a bike that matches his talent more closely

Aye. Was a real shame to see him wasting his talent/time and risking serious injury beating his head against a brick wall at Ducati.

[codgyoleracer]

Ear ya go mate...247570

Great article

[NZsarge]

carbon firbre can have as much flex,damping,etc etc as you want...and far more precisely than metals...you name the physical property, you can build it in to a piece of carbon fibre weaved product....and I'm not kidding....carbon fibre axles on F1 cars are designed to twist 180 degrees...to dampen driveline shock, because of acceleration..the wings are designed to flex a certain way, a pecentage of the way down the wing, to a limited amount of flex..so as not to break any rules!!....the ability to design massive amounts of function into carbon fibre is amazing...seriously!!

as a development tool...its probally the long/slow way...once you have your parameters...mint!!
Without trying to be a smart arse or anything, if CF is as awesome as you say it is why aren't all the manufactures using it?
It obviously isn't working that well for Ducati and it looks like they might be on the edge so to speak of giving up on it.

[codgyoleracer]

Without trying to be a smart arse or anything, if CF is as awesome as you say it is why aren't all the manufactures using it?
It obviously isn't working that well for Ducati and it looks like they might be on the edge so to speak of giving up on it.

I suspect cost & public liabilty........

[johan]

My guess at the next Ducati experiment:

"Rossi to try bamboo frame at Motegi"

[Mental Trousers]

Without trying to be a smart arse or anything, if CF is as awesome as you say it is why aren't all the manufactures using it?
It obviously isn't working that well for Ducati and it looks like they might be on the edge so to speak of giving up on it.

Carbon Fibre is a fabulous material. The problem with it is nobody totally understands it yet.

From an engineering perspective the engineers can design carbon fibre parts that have the exact properties required. However, the riders aren't able to interpret the feedback that the carbon fibre is giving and when you're riding a motorbike on the absolute limits feedback is everything. Nobody has been able to quantify what feedback is and slap a number on it, so the engineers don't know what to build to achieve the best feedback. Whether a design is right or not the only way to figure that out is to put a rider on it and see what he says and that could be as vague as I can't feel the front.

Everyone says that metal frames give the best feedback. But that's partly because everyone has been raised riding metal framed bikes so they're used to the feel of them and anything else feels wrong. It's a catch 22; to create a carbon fibre chassis that can compete you need feedback from the riders to improve it, but the riders aren't able to tell you what's going on because they don't understand what the carbon chassis is telling them.

[wharfy]

I suspect cost & public liabilty........

They should come and talk with some NZ yacht builders, they have been building whole boats out of it for years (I've even sailed on one with a CF dunny), I'm sure they will have shit loads of data (no pun intended). :shit:

[Mental Trousers]

Formula 1 seems to have the low down on carbon fibre as well. But then they have too many wheels which makes things completely different. Bike designs are all about reading the subtleties when riding, cars are anything but subtle.

[NZsarge]

Carbon Fibre is a fabulous material. The problem with it is nobody totally understands it yet.

From an engineering perspective the engineers can design carbon fibre parts that have the exact properties required. However, the riders aren't able to interpret the feedback that the carbon fibre is giving and when you're riding a motorbike on the absolute limits feedback is everything. Nobody has been able to quantify what feedback is and slap a number on it, so the engineers don't know what to build to achieve the best feedback. Whether a design is right or not the only way to figure that out is to put a rider on it and see what he says and that could be as vague as I can't feel the front.

Everyone says that metal frames give the best feedback. But that's partly because everyone has been raised riding metal framed bikes so they're used to the feel of them and anything else feels wrong. It's a catch 22; to create a carbon fibre chassis that can compete you need feedback from the riders to improve it, but the riders aren't able to tell you what's going on because they don't understand what the carbon chassis is telling them.
Yep fair call but all the more reason to stick with Alloy, why try to fix something that isn't broke?

They should come and talk with some NZ yacht builders, they have been building whole boats out of it for years (I've even sailed on one with a CF dunny), I'm sure they will have shit loads of data (no pun intended). :shit:
:laugh: Pun may not have been intended but is't funny none the less...

Enough internet talk, i'm going for a wee ride...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep fair call but all the more reason to stick with Alloy, why try to fix something that isn't broke?
.

Because they're (as always) trying to find ways to go faster than the others.

[NZsarge]

Because they're (as always) trying to find ways to go faster than the others.

Yeh well hows that working out for them.... (rhetorical question you understand...)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeh well hows that working out for them.... (rhetorical question you understand...)

Obviously not so well. But you'll never know unless you try!!

[wharfy]

great read, thanks for that!

wot he said ...

[Crasherfromwayback]

What we're all lucky enough to be watching...is the second coming of Mick Doohan.

[NZsarge]

What we're all lucky enough to be watching...is the second coming of Mick Doohan.

Who?
.......

[Mental Trousers]

What we're all lucky enough to be watching...is the second cuming of Dick Moohan.

Who?
.......

Fixed it up (he's been watching pr0n)

[Drew]

What we're all lucky enough to be watching...is the second coming of Mick Doohan.

Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.

Mick Doohan rode a good chunk of a season on a leg that required an extra knee slider mid calf due to how mashed the leg that wouldn't knit back together. that he couldn't even walk on!

Stoner the little poof took how many months off with a crook stomach?

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

[Mental Trousers]

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

I'm with you there. As far as raw talent goes they might be close, but Mick has him on the count of being a ruthless bastard on a bike, far more aggressive and confrontational and just a hard bastard all around.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.

Mick Doohan rode a good chunk of a season on a leg that required an extra knee slider mid calf due to how mashed the leg that wouldn't knit back together. that he couldn't even walk on!

Stoner the little poof took how many months off with a crook stomach?

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.


I'm with you there. As far as raw talent goes they might be close, but Mick has him on the count of being a ruthless bastard on a bike, far more aggressive and confrontational and just a hard bastard all around.

I'm not talking about 'hardness' you coupla raving pooftas...I'm talking about sheer agression and skill on a fucking motorcycle.

I'm willing to be neither of you have seen both Doohan and Stoner in Action in person at a GP yeah?

If not..fuck off with your comments.:sunny:

[Mental Trousers]

I'm not talking about 'hardness' you coupla raving pooftas...I'm talking about sheer agression and skill on a fucking motorcycle.

I'm willing to be neither of you have seen both Doohan and Stoner in Action in person at a GP yeah?

If not..fuck off with your comments.:sunny:

Oh shut up. I said on raw riding talent they're close.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oh shut up. I said on raw riding talent they're close.

'Might' be close actually ya Sifter! 10 poles out of 15 rounds (so far), 8 wins, would've been 9. Fastest in nearly every practice session, laps records everywhere. And he ain't finished yet. What would the count be if Gayboy hadn't taken him out at Jerez?

If that ain't a Doohan like crushing I'll lick my own balls. I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up with the same number of titles as Doohan before he's finished too.

[Mental Trousers]

If that ain't a Doohan like crushing I'll lick my own balls. I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up with the same number of titles as Doohan before he's finished too.

See now I have to argue that it isn't just so we can get pics up on the internet of that (I'm sure Rach would be willing to take pics as long as she could stop laughing).

[Crasherfromwayback]

See now I have to argue that it isn't just so we can get pics up on the internet of that (I'm sure Rach would be willing to take pics as long as she could stop laughing).

Ahhh...but you'll have to wait another few seasons to see who's right and wrong yet!

[gixerracer]

Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.

Mick Doohan rode a good chunk of a season on a leg that required an extra knee slider mid calf due to how mashed the leg that wouldn't knit back together. that he couldn't even walk on!

Stoner the little poof took how many months off with a crook stomach?

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

At least he can do a whellie:innocent:
Bro you need to ingage your brain before your mouth yet again. Mick only done the last race of that season with his gammie leg I have it on video if you ever wish to watch it.
Simple fact is that Stoner is godat themo he is consistantly head and sholders above the rest just look at his results. Love him or not he will be one of the sports all time greats and will more than likely go on to win more than mick did :yes:

[cowpoos]

At least he can do a whellie:innocent:
Bro you need to ingage your brain before your mouth yet again. Mick only done the last race of that season with his gammie leg I have it on video if you ever wish to watch it.
Simple fact is that Stoner is godat themo he is consistantly head and sholders above the rest just look at his results. Love him or not he will be one of the sports all time greats and will more than likely go on to win more than mick did :yes:

I have to agree!

[Mental Trousers]

At least he can do a whellie:innocent:
Bro you need to ingage your brain before your mouth yet again. Mick only done the last race of that season with his gammie leg I have it on video if you ever wish to watch it.
Simple fact is that Stoner is godat themo he is consistantly head and sholders above the rest just look at his results. Love him or not he will be one of the sports all time greats and will more than likely go on to win more than mick did :yes:

I have to agree!

Suck up!!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oh shut up. I said on raw riding talent they're close.

I've got another really interesting Stoner article I'll put up for you tomorrow...

[Mental Trousers]

I've got another really interesting Stoner article I'll put up for you tomorrow...

Sweet. Cheers.

[rachprice]

And yes I promise to post any attempts of ball licking

[Crasherfromwayback]

And yes I promise to post any attempts of ball licking

Your attempts or mine?:shutup:

[Brian d marge]

has anyone here actually built a frame, or have half a clue what's involved?, even modifying them is a pain ( have one on the bench at the moment ..different engine meet different frame....they weld nicely:-))
what you want is brain, Tyre contact patch ..
I have an analysis on the ducati trellis frame, try translating that into a feeling
good crew chief?
as I have said, if Rossi gets a win/championship , on a bike that anyone can ride, respect,
Stoner, riding style and complained about handling ( trellis)
if I was Burgess or Rossi, I would go aluminium get it working then, try to reintroduce the cf, OR as ducati would like an unique solution ( as it helps sales, I think)

stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

great read, thanks for that!


Great article


wot he said ...


Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

Here's another wee read for ya. Sorry about the last page...it won't scan properly for some reason. Pity...as it's Stoner on Ducati and its woes...

247959

[DidJit]

has anyone here actually built a frame, or have half a clue what's involved?...

FTR (http://motomatters.com/news/2011/10/04/so_you_want_to_build_racing_motorcycles_.html) are hiring.

[johan]

Here's another wee read for ya. Sorry about the last page...it won't scan properly for some reason. Pity...as it's Stoner on Ducati and its woes...

247959

Good read again, thanks!

ps. You might need to scan that last page as a greyscale image for it to work (opposed to just black and white)?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good read again, thanks!

ps. You might need to scan that last page as a greyscale image for it to work (opposed to just black and white)?

I think I'll just scan it on it's own and see what happens. It scans ok...but as I sent it to my email it got fucked up twice for some reason!

[DidJit]

Good read again, thanks! ...

'Tis a very good read!

[Crasherfromwayback]

'Tis a very good read!

Aye. I think he's far more analytical than most peeps give him credit for.

[gixerracer]

Aye. I think he's far more analytical than most peeps give him credit for.

People dont like him for two reasons
1: because he is faster than they riders that they like so they hate him( Tall popy syndrome i think they call it) kiwis are very very bad for this.
2: He speaks his mind not lik them europens they cry behind the scenes more than you realise, stoner like Mick speaks how it is

[eelracing]

I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up with the same number of titles as Doohan before he's finished too.


and will more than likely go on to win more than mick did :yes:

Wanna bet?I reckon Stacey will more n likely get another next year but Honda just can't help themselves and Marquez will be their new golden boy all to soon.

Staceys' meltdown is only a matter of time.Afterall an Aussie crybaby does not sell motorbikes.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wanna bet?I reckon Stacey will more n likely get another next year but Honda just can't help themselves and Marquez will be their new golden boy all to soon.

Staceys' meltdown is only a matter of time.Afterall an Aussie crybaby does not sell motorbikes.

I agree that HRC are lining up Marquez as their next 'Golden Boy'. I just think that Stoner will kick his arse too.

And it sems he's less of a crybaby than Rossi nowadays mate!

May have something to do with riding an evil pile of shit. He did smile occasionally when he was at Ducati though. When he WON races on it!!!

Something GAYBOY will never do.

[eelracing]

I agree that HRC are lining up Marquez as their next 'Golden Boy'. I just think that Stoner will kick his arse to

C'mon Pete your always good for a bite but Rossi has nothing left to prove his record speaks for itself.

However,as good as Stacey is he has to accept that he is now a Honda servant.
Rossi left Honda for a reason.
Nicky Hayden wins Honda a title and what did they do?
Design next years bike around Pedrosa...which ultimately proved a failure.But that was'nt the point.

Marquez is Spanish,this = Dorna/Repsol and ultimately sales in Europe for Honda.It's a given.

[Crasherfromwayback]

People dont like him for two reasons
1: because he is faster than they riders that they like so they hate him( Tall popy syndrome i think they call it) kiwis are very very bad for this.
2: He speaks his mind not lik them europens they cry behind the scenes more than you realise, stoner like Mick speaks how it is

Especially the ones that tried to argue Stoner wasn't the fastest guy round...cause it'd mean they have to admit they were wrong...and aren't man enough to do so.

I also laugh at people that think he's a moaner. It's not like they all don't have a whinge/bitch when things go wrong. There's a lot at stake. Reading Revvin Kevins colums on SuperbikePlanet.com...I think he's a fucking tosser. A few back he had a cry that Stoner dared to call the Indy track shit...when it was the same for everyone. So fucking what!!?? The track is fucking shit, and Stoner said so. As he said..."Just because I won there, doesn't mean I'm gonna come out ans say I love the place or like the track!". Fair enough too. I notice he praised the Japs on the resurfacing work they've done at Montegi!!!

Then there are the people that wanked on about him winning the title in '07' purely because the Ducati's electronics were so much better than everyone elses. Tui.

[Crasherfromwayback]

C'mon Pete your always good for a bite but Rossi has nothing left to prove his record speaks for itself.

However,as good as Stacey is he has to accept that he is now a Honda servant.
Rossi left Honda for a reason.
Nicky Hayden wins Honda a title and what did they do?
Design next years bike around Pedrosa...which ultimately proved a failure.But that was'nt the point.

Marquez is Spanish,this = Dorna/Repsol and ultimately sales in Europe for Honda.It's a given.

You don't seriously think Rossi is not trying do ya? He's way too proud for that mate.

He's simply bitten off more than he and Burgess can chew, and both of them have a huge serving of egg on face after the comments they BOTH made about Stoner last year.

Whilst Hayden won the title for Honda in the 1000cc era, it's obvious Honda saw Pedrosa as their long term pot of gold. But I bet that Stoner, having won them their ONLY title in the 800cc era, and the way he's done it (as compared to the way Hayden won it), they'll see his as very different. Note...they Had Doohan and Crivelle on the team at the same time?

Doohan (yep...the Aussie) was the one they paid sqillions for mate, not Crivelle.

[gixerracer]

C'mon Pete your always good for a bite but Rossi has nothing left to prove his record speaks for itself.

However,as good as Stacey is he has to accept that he is now a Honda servant.
Rossi left Honda for a reason.
Nicky Hayden wins Honda a title and what did they do?
Design next years bike around Pedrosa...which ultimately proved a failure.But that was'nt the point.

Marquez is Spanish,this = Dorna/Repsol and ultimately sales in Europe for Honda.It's a given.

Dude you must live under a rock (wHanganui is pretty close:facepalm:)
Rossi left Honda for Yamaha because they wouldn't pay him 20 million and Yamaha said we will.
Sure he was happy at Yamaha but look what happened when Lorenzo started to be a threat Rossi got pushed out because he wanted to much money( same reason he left Honda)
Marquez wouldnt see which way the top 3-4 riders in Motogp went and he wouldnt handle getting beatewn up by them either.
You say Stoner is now a servant? I would say all the top level riders are servant to whom ever they are racing for cant see why you think Honda is and differemt to the others.
Mick had plenty of pretenders try and take him but when it came down to it they are to fragile

[eelracing]

You don't seriously think Rossi is not trying do ya? He's way too proud for that mate.

I did'nt say he was not trying,but only a fool would write him off

He's simply bitten off more than he and Burgess can chew, and both of them have a huge serving of egg on face after the comments they BOTH made about Stoner last year.

Funny how he pulled finger after the comment was made tho eh.So it got the result needed.


Whilst Hayden won the title for Honda in the 1000cc era, it's obvious Honda saw Pedrosa as their long term pot of gold. But I bet that Stoner, having won them their ONLY title in the 800cc era, and the way he's done it (as compared to the way Hayden won it), they'll see his as very different. Note...they Had Doohan and Crivelle on the team at the same time?

[COLOR="yellow"]So what makes you think Honda will change.(remember Stoner is not popular in Europe even with Ducati fans)

Doohan (yep...the Aussie) was the one they paid sqillions for mate, not Crivelle.

Because Doohan was the only one who could win a Championship on a 500.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Because Doohan was the only one who could win a Championship on a 500.

Stoner would suit a 500 smoker down to the ground mate. And being an ex dirt track champ (something Doohan never was from memory), he'd more than likely have smoked his ass too.

[Deano]

This thread licks balls.......and smokes arse.

I.E - fucking gay.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I.E - fucking gay.

Wrong thread. That's the Rossi thread.

[RobGassit]

What we're all lucky enough to be watching...is the second coming of Mick Doohan.

Are you saying that Casey is Mick's second child?:facepalm:

[RobGassit]

'Might' be close actually ya Sifter! 10 poles out of 15 rounds (so far), 8 wins, would've been 9. Fastest in nearly every practice session, laps records everywhere. And he ain't finished yet. What would the count be if Gayboy hadn't taken him out at Jerez?

If that ain't a Doohan like crushing I'll lick my own balls. I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up with the same number of titles as Doohan before he's finished too.

If you do manage to lick said own balls be sure to post the picture. I see a pic of the week award in your future.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Are you saying that Casey is Mick's second child?:facepalm:

He rides like it.


If you do manage to lick said own balls be sure to post the picture. I see a pic of the week award in your future.

I've had two ribs removed from each side in preperation.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.

Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!

Stoner is good I'm sure, but at the last round it was afro boy setting lap records, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

This guy's been around a while and should know a great racer when he sees one...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111005agorowsi.htm

[steveyb]

Seating position.
Vale is indicating that one of his big issues on the bike is the seating position.
Now, when I heard that I thought, well, change it.
Perhaps it is not quite so easy.
Then I saw this at Motegi lap after lap.
http://www.mcnews.com.au/MotorcycleRacing2011/MotoGP/Rnd15/Gallery_B/pages/Rossi_11GP15_2336_AN.htm
Has anyone seen him doing this before?
I certainly haven't.
Maybe there is something in what he says.

[bogan]

Seating position.
Vale is indicating that one of his big issues on the bike is the seating position.


What, that his seat is on a duc instead of a honda this year you mean? Yeh, I can see how that could cause some issues :innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Then I saw this at Motegi lap after lap.
http://www.mcnews.com.au/MotorcycleRacing2011/MotoGP/Rnd15/Gallery_B/pages/Rossi_11GP15_2336_AN.htm
.

It's the only way to draw attention to yourself when you're one of the backmarkers mate.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Jesus Christ, that's gotta go in the all time dumb arse posts award nominees bro.
Stoner will never measure up to Doohan, and the pair of them know it better than anyone!
.


Wanna bet?I reckon Stacey will more n likely get another next year but Honda just can't help themselves and Marquez will be their new golden boy all to soon.

Staceys' meltdown is only a matter of time.Afterall an Aussie crybaby does not sell motorbikes.


Because Doohan was the only one who could win a Championship on a 500.

Since we're talking about Doohan...might as well see what he thinks on the matter...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111006c.htm

[roogazza]

Since we're talking about Doohan...might as well see what he thinks on the matter...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111006c.htm

Thanks for that P. I'm feeling better. Rossi's not finished and Stoner needs three fantastic years to even reach Doohan's 5 titles. lol.
(i'll concede this year is his). ( Rossi 9 ! )

[Shaun]

Stoner will retire at the end of 2013

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thanks for that P. I'm feeling better. Rossi's not finished and Stoner needs three fantastic years to even reach Doohan's 5 titles. lol.
(i'll concede this year is his). ( Rossi 9 ! )

Wrong. Rossi is finished. And it must be really painfull for you looking at the Stoner vs Rossi head to head stats eh!!! Each time Stoner beats him, only adds to the misery.

[Mental Trousers]

Wrong. Rossi is finished. And it must be really painfull for you looking at the Stoner vs Rossi head to head stats eh!!! Each time Stoner beats him, only adds to the misery.


Stoner will retire at the end of 2013

That sounds far more likely than Stoner ever achieving what Rossi has :innocent:

[Drew]

Wrong. Rossi is finished. And it must be really painfull for you looking at the Stoner vs Rossi head to head stats eh!!! Each time Stoner beats him, only adds to the misery.Dont quite get your total hatred for Rossi Pete. I got sick of Moto GP being the Rossi show for so long, but the guy is a legend. And he actually had to race head to head for a lot of his wins, the Hondas being as dominant as they are this year means it's always just Stoner and Pedrosa being chased by two other Hondas.

Reading the article you put up and it looks unlikely that Stoner will be able to beat Rossi's win stats. If he's gonna be the greatest, won't he need to do that?

[roogazza]

Wrong. Rossi is finished. And it must be really painfull for you looking at the Stoner vs Rossi head to head stats eh!!! Each time Stoner beats him, only adds to the misery.

He'll be home on his aussie farm within 3yrs !

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner the little poof took how many months off with a crook stomach?

, not the buck tooth whinging friggin Ausie.

I see more hatin towards Stoner from you than from me towards Rossi mate.


That sounds far more likely than Stoner ever achieving what Rossi has :innocent:

I agree, there's no way Stoner will ever beat Rossi's race win total, but that to me doesn't mean in my opinion he ain't better/faster.


. And he actually had to race head to head for a lot of his wins, .

Reading the article you put up and it looks unlikely that Stoner will be able to beat Rossi's win stats. If he's gonna be the greatest, won't he need to do that?

That's just my point mate. Head to head...Stoner has it all over Rossi ever since he's had factory bikes. And I can't quite fathom how you think Rossi is the greatest of all time is numbers are your thing. Ago has more race wins than Rossi, and always will mate. The fact that Stoner has blown Rossi race wins into the weeds from the time he's had factory equipment makes him better than Rossi as far as I'm concerned.

He'll be home on his aussie farm within 3yrs !

I agree...and with Mrs Stoner around...why wouldn't ya!!

[Metastable]

It is kinda hard to compare riders... even Stoner and Rossi.

Who is the better rider?
1 - The guy that can hop on a bike and go faster
or
2 - The guy who can develop his bike and go faster

I like both riders... actually I don't have an issue with any of them except Pedrassimo. :D I do not want to see him win.

Going back to Stoner vs Rossi....

Rossi may or may not be past his prime. He won championships in 125, 250, 500 and MotoGP 1000cc and 800cc, on bikes from Aprilia 2-strokes to Honda 2-strokes to Honda 1000cc 4-strokes and Yamaha 1000cc and 800cc 4-strokes.

There was a time that I didn't want to see Rossi win.... because he dominated... but I have to give him credit where it is due, the guy is a good racer and good at setting up a bike.

Now head to head battles as in on the track and dicing it out, very few guys beat Rossi. Barros managed a couple of times, Sete did it ... Biaggi probably did it, Lorenzo has and the odd other rider here or there, but I don't remember Stoner doing it too many times, but I do remember that one Laguna race. :D

Despite being fast on the track, Rossi has shown that he can develop a bike that other riders can ride. Stoner has never developed a bike like Rossi has, ever in top level racing.

So in my humble opinion, Rossi is the better rider, but you can argue that CURRENTLY Stoner is the fastest guy on the grid and it is a grid with some GREAT riders.

I kinda equate it to Senna vs Villenueve (Gilles), although they never raced together.... Senna was the better driver. He was methodical and fast and ruthless, similar to Rossi. Villenueve could get on anything and drive it FAST right away.... might have been a bit more mental than Stoner, but you get the idea.

[denill]

Ago summed it up nicely I think with; "But I don't think Valentino has stopped being a good rider. The rider can only contribute his opinions. Put simply, he needs a perfect bike, but Stoner doesn't."

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111005agorowsi.htm

[denill]

Rossi has shown that he can develop a bike that other riders can ride.

Where the fuck have you been in 2011?

[Metastable]

Where the fuck have you been in 2011?

:D I didn't say he managed to develop every bike. No one except Stoner could ride that thing.... so I have to cut him a bit of slack. He did develop the RC211V, 800cc and 1000cc Yamahas.... bikes that EVERY rider who hopped on them could ride. Ya the Ducati hasn't been sorted out.

[gixerracer]

It is kinda hard to compare riders... even Stoner and Rossi.

Who is the better rider?
1 - The guy that can hop on a bike and go faster
or
2 - The guy who can develop his bike and go faster

I like both riders... actually I don't have an issue with any of them except Pedrassimo. :D I do not want to see him win.

Going back to Stoner vs Rossi....

Rossi may or may not be past his prime. He won championships in 125, 250, 500 and MotoGP 1000cc and 800cc, on bikes from Aprilia 2-strokes to Honda 2-strokes to Honda 1000cc 4-strokes and Yamaha 1000cc and 800cc 4-strokes.

There was a time that I didn't want to see Rossi win.... because he dominated... but I have to give him credit where it is due, the guy is a good racer and good at setting up a bike.

Now head to head battles as in on the track and dicing it out, very few guys beat Rossi. Barros managed a couple of times, Sete did it ... Biaggi probably did it, Lorenzo has and the odd other rider here or there, but I don't remember Stoner doing it too many times, but I do remember that one Laguna race. :D

Despite being fast on the track, Rossi has shown that he can develop a bike that other riders can ride. Stoner has never developed a bike like Rossi has, ever in top level racing.

So in my humble opinion, Rossi is the better rider, but you can argue that CURRENTLY Stoner is the fastest guy on the grid and it is a grid with some GREAT riders.

I kinda equate it to Senna vs Villenueve (Gilles), although they never raced together.... Senna was the better driver. He was methodical and fast and ruthless, similar to Rossi. Villenueve could get on anything and drive it FAST right away.... might have been a bit more mental than Stoner, but you get the idea.

Stoner has never been in a position to develope a bike??
Ducati sure as hell wouldnt listen to him but he could still win on it even tho it was a not so user friendly bike.
Now he is with HRC you watch him develope the 1000cc bike in a destroying weapon. Honda made a very good call getting that man on there bike to win there 1st 800cc title and also TO DEVELOPE the 1000

[Metastable]

I never said he can't, I said he hasn't. Of course it was a great move to get Stoner... and like I have said in the past, it's great to see a non-European giving it to the Italians and Spaniards that usually get a bit of favoritism from Dorna.

You guys make it sound like I'm a Rossi fan and not a Stoner fan, I like the guy .... I'm just anti-Pedrosa. :D

[denill]

:D I didn't say he managed to develop every bike. No one except Stoner could ride that thing.... so I have to cut him a bit of slack. He did develop the RC211V, 800cc and 1000cc Yamahas.... bikes that EVERY rider who hopped on them could ride. Ya the Ducati hasn't been sorted out.

Even after that back peddling - it's not quite fair to say Rossi developed the Hondas and the Yamaha, as a guy called Jeremy Burgess had a bit to do with that.

Neither have got even close this year with the Ducati - to everyone's surprise and disappointment - including mine.

[Metastable]

Even after that back peddling - it's not quite fair to say Rossi developed the Hondas and the Yamaha, as a guy called Jeremy Burgess had a bit to do with that.

Neither have got even close this year with the Ducati - to everyone's surprise and disappointment - including mine.

Well that's because Stoner handed over a Lemon. :shutup: just kidding

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-talks-yamaha-m1-development/15484.html

Burgess and Rossi get on very well, but if you don't have the correct input from the rider, there is only so much Burgess could have done. Rossi is pretty methodical about his approach. He goes after fixing the big things first and then works on the little ones. My guess is that the Ducati was sooo OFF, that he doesn't even have a clue where to begin.

Melandri, Hayden, Sete.... those guys aren't chumps and none of them could ride the Ducati unless it was raining. Ducati has a huge problem, that Casey was masking. Hayden even said... I don't know what they are paying Casey, but it isn't enough. :D

[denill]

Well that's because Stoner handed over a Lemon. :shutup: just kidding

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/rossi-talks-yamaha-m1-development/15484.html

Burgess and Rossi get on very well, but if you don't have the correct input from the rider, there is only so much Burgess could have done. Rossi is pretty methodical about his approach. He goes after fixing the big things first and then works on the little ones. My guess is that the Ducati was sooo OFF, that he doesn't even have a clue where to begin.

Melandri, Hayden, Sete.... those guys aren't chumps and none of them could ride the Ducati unless it was raining. Ducati has a huge problem, that Casey was masking. Hayden even said... I don't know what they are paying Casey, but it isn't enough. :D

Yeah, I'm with ya on most of what you say there - except you seem to imply that todays Ducati is Stoner's fault.

Whereas I reckon he just rode what they gave him.

The development of a bike is surely the engineers and test riders area of responsibility. Whereas, the rider provides setup feedback of their result.

[trev]

It amuses me when people say they 'hate' a particular rider. We watch them as "riders" not popularity contestants. Personally, for all MotoGp riders, I am just awestruck at their level of riding skills. I would be grateful to possess even 1/10th of their talent.

[Metastable]

Denill -> I have no idea if it was Stoner's fault or not as to what happened to the Ducati. Maybe they didn't listen to him or maybe he developed the bike to best match his aggressive riding style.

BTW - I don't hate Pedro, I just don't want to see him win. I figure the kid is OK, but his mentor Puig :sick: .... the dude has said some blatantly stupid things and unfortunately Danny gets caught up in it. Danny not shaking Simo's hand as an apology or Danny initially blaming Hayden when Hayden was taken out in Portugal the year he won the Championship.... also don't help my views of the guy.... but he's OK and can ride like hell.

[Mental Trousers]

Stoner never got the changes he wanted until the end of each season. Because he could win on it as it was there was no chance that Ducati would spend the money required to roll out the changes he wanted during the season. Not being Italian didn't help in the slightest.

[tigertim20]

It amuses me when people say they 'hate' a particular rider. We watch them as "riders" not popularity contestants. Personally, for all MotoGp riders, I am just awestruck at their level of riding skills. I would be grateful to possess even 1/10th of their talent.

everyone has their favourites.
there are ones I dislike and dont want to see them win.
there are ones I like and wish the best. Theyre all worlds ahead of me in talent and ability, but I still dislike some of them, but thats half the point, it would be boring watching it if you didnt have a favourite to cheer on

[Crasherfromwayback]

a nice pic for the haters...which of course, they'll hate. I think it's really pretty.

248338

[Mental Trousers]

a nice pic for the haters...which of course, they'll hate. I think it's really pretty.

248338

Pretty?? What are you, a poof??

That'd make a good poster though.

[Shaun]

a nice pic for the haters...which of course, they'll hate. I think it's really pretty.

248338


you just think he is pretty:shit:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pretty?? What are you, a poof??

That'd make a good poster though.


you just think he is pretty:shit:

I could pretend to be a poof...become Stoners live in manfriend...then ambush his wife!!!

[eelracing]

I could pretend to be a poof.

What do you mean pretend????

Stoners Grandmother telegrammed ...have you won the fucken thing yet!stop:If not then give that Honda to me stop:

[Crasherfromwayback]

What do you mean pretend????

Stoners Grandmother telegrammed ...have you won the fucken thing yet!stop:If not then give that Honda to me stop:

Quiet in the cheap seats mate! The Honda must be so easy to ride from way back when, when Rossi developed it eh??

Guess we'll see how easy next years Ducati is to ride shortly!

[cowpoos]

I agree, there's no way Stoner will ever beat Rossi's race win total, but that to me doesn't mean in my opinion he ain't better/faster.

Stoner is the most successful rider of the 800cc era period...not rossi...despite Casey having cronic fatigue issuse during a season!

He may never get as many wins as rossi...more wins and poduims..while racing together....that counts for a fuck load more than any other statistic the Rossi bum licker can throw at this discussion!

[bogan]

Stoner is the most successful rider of the 800cc era period...not rossi...despite Casey having cronic fatigue issuse during a season!

He may never get as many wins as rossi...more wins and poduims..while racing together....that counts for a fuck load more than any other statistic the Rossi bum licker can throw at this discussion!

you sure about that?

stoner has a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, and 1st (safe bet)
rossi has a 3rd, 1st, 1st, 3rd and a balls-up season.

So rossi beat stoner in 3 out of 5 800cc championships, and got on the podium 4 times to casey's 3. Just saying :whistle: :innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

you sure about that?

stoner has a 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, and 1st (safe bet)
rossi has a 3rd, 1st, 1st, 3rd and a balls-up season.

So rossi beat stoner in 3 out of 5 800cc championships, and got on the podium 4 times to casey's 3. Just saying :whistle: :innocent:

And at the end of the season...Stoner will have won two championships (just like Rossi), but far more races. That makes it pretty easy to say who the better of the two is to me mate. Especially considering the bikes the two of them have had over that time.

[bogan]

And at the end of the season...Stoner will have won two championships (just like Rossi), but far more races. That makes it pretty easy to say who the better of the two is to me mate. Especially considering the bikes the two of them have had over that time.

All depends on how you choose to look at it then, and to me, that means it too close to call.

[roogazza]

Happily stolen from issue 84, 1992, of Motorcycle International and written by Cathcart.[/I]

Cagiva were deeply disillusioned as the Randy Mamola era drew to and end. Lawsons arrival revitalised the race team. From Day One Lawson demonstrated the level of commitment to excellence that had made him the most complete rider of the modern era, and the men at Cagiva responden in kind; they did it His Way.

Lawson's Way dictated a pace of development and a readiness to experiement that catapulted the red Italian bike ahead of Doohan by the fift race of the season.

The '89 bike was an animal, with an extreme 60/40 forward weight bias; traction was a constant problem, plus it was very nervous and twitchy even in a straight line, and braking hard woukld have the back wheel trying to flip the bike. And the engine was almost worse, with a razor edge powerband that came in sharply at 10000 and ended so abruptly at 12200rpm that you risked smashing the screen with your helmet.

With Fanali as a mechanic and Haslam as a rider, the Cagiva was much improved for 1990. A 53/47 weight distribution and a more sensible steering geometry aided stability, but they still had a traction issue. However, the engine now had 500 rpm overrev available for the first time, although low end power was still poor with a hole in the powerband between 9500 and 10000 rpm. A new and improved version was already designed before Lawson joined, but Eddie's constant inputs helped refine it further.

The '91 engine is much more user-friendly with 15% more torque at 8000 rpm, same power at 10000 and 3 % more top end power. It makes useable power from 7500 rpm and with an ability to overrev to 12800 rpm before power really begins to fall off. There is a big surge of power between 9000 and 11000 rpm that can be downtuned a bit with leaner jetting. Still, the Cagiva power delivery has rather too many layers - it needs to be more linear, and for the engine to pick up revs faster throughout the powerband.

Throughout 1991, Cagive made up 5 different basic chassis designs, six different versions of the cylinders and ten different exhaust pipe designs. When Lawson identified a front end problem most probably due to the engine being in the wrong place, chassis designer Botta were able to design and produce an all-new frame in two days flat!

The final edition of the chassis, designed by Albesiano to try and cure the front-end grip problem all Michelin runners were by then afflicted with is excellent. The bike puts the power down really well out of turns. It's a very nice bike ride, especially as a flat track like Pergusa wouldn't have exposed the front-end problem which clouded the end of the team's '91 season.

The head angle is variable one degree each side of the standard 24 degrees, and the swingarm pivot is adjustable, too. For 1992, the team planed to have a new variation which will enable the engine location to be varied in any direction to optimise weight distribution, thus eliminating the need to revamp the frame every time they want to try a different setup. At this stage, the Ferrari-built carbon fibre chassis employed in 1990 will likely make a reappearance in all new form. The fact that it cannot be modified like an alloy frame prevented its use in the evolutionary year.

[Crasherfromwayback]

All depends on how you choose to look at it then, and to me, that means it too close to call.

Yeah but records go by race wins, not 3rd, 2nd or fourth places for the season.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lawson's Way dictated a pace of development and a readiness to experiement that catapulted the red Italian bike ahead of Doohan by the fift race of the season.


.

Steddie Eddie is one of the all time greats! Stoner will win far more races than Eddie ever did. Maybe then...people will appreciate what they're seeing.

[Shaun]

Steddie Eddie is one of the all time greats! Stoner will win far more races than Eddie ever did. Maybe then...people will appreciate what they're seeing.



Eddie is my ALL TIME HERO!

He always blamed himself and thanked his crew

I guess there were some strong words behind closed doors on accasions though

[bogan]

Yeah but records go by race wins, not 3rd, 2nd or fourth places for the season.

Which records? I hear at least as much about rider championship titles as opposed to the win numbers.

Pretty much all the rest of motorsport scoring is done by the highest level data, having 9/10 fastest laps doesn't count for more than having the quickest overall time; having more wins doesn't count for more than having more overall points; so logically (to me), having more race wins or season points shouldn't count for more than the championship results. But I guess that is just how I choose to look at it :innocent:

[SimJen]

And at the end of the season...Stoner will have won two championships (just like Rossi), but far more races. That makes it pretty easy to say who the better of the two is to me mate. Especially considering the bikes the two of them have had over that time.

Better in the 800 era but not overall! Stoner has a long way ahead to match the sheer number of wins/championships that Rossi has amassed over the years.
Stoner never even won a 125 or a 250 crown, and never had a chance to prove himself on the best bikes of all, the 500cc 2 Strokes! No gay traction control on those bad boys!
You've also got to remember that just because Rossi went to Ducati, it doesn't mean its the same bike that Stoner was riding!!!! A new bike every year, substantially different from the year befores to accomodate new rules/regulations. Stoner only got to ride an earlier incarnation of the bike Rossi took over!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Better in the 800 era but not overall! Stoner has a long way ahead to match the sheer number of wins/championships that Rossi has amassed over the years.
Stoner never even won a 125 or a 250 crown, and never had a chance to prove himself on the best bikes of all, the 500cc 2 Strokes! No gay traction control on those bad boys!
You've also got to remember that just because Rossi went to Ducati, it doesn't mean its the same bike that Stoner was riding!!!! A new bike every year, substantially different from the year befores to accomodate new rules/regulations. Stoner only got to ride an earlier incarnation of the bike Rossi took over!

Well for starters...Stoner never once had factory equipment whilst riding 125's or 250's. It's near on impossible to win in those classes without factory equipment.

When he did get factory equipment...he was on an 800cc GP bike. The rest...as they say, is history! And if you think Stoner relies on traction control to win, you obviously can't read. If that's the case, I just wasted time in responding.

[SimJen]

Well for starters...Stoner never once had factory equipment whilst riding 125's or 250's. It's near on impossible to win in those classes without factory equipment.
When he did get factory equipment...he was on an 800cc GP bike. The rest...as they say, is history! And if you think Stoner relies on traction control to win, you obviously can't read. If that's the case, I just wasted time in responding.

They all rely on electronic aids, some more than others but it goes without saying that the bikes are less of a handful today than they were in the 500cc era!
Stoner still has a way to go to better Rossi's records! Or Agostini's or Doohans!
Simple as that!
Rossi is coming to the end of his career, Stoner is in his prime and on the best bike out there! Not really a fair comparison. If the Ducati gets sorted, maybe Rossi will win another world championship, but then the Honda is currently so good it might not be possible!
Anyone who wins a World Championship is a riding god, but lets be clear Casey has a long way to go yet to prove greatness! I imagine he might well do it!

[denill]

Rossi is coming to the end of his career, Stoner is in his prime and on the best bike out there! Not really a fair comparison.

It probably is fair - as up to now, Stoner had to do it on the piece of shit Rossi & fans are blaming now.

[SimJen]

It probably is fair - as up to now, Stoner had to do it on the piece of shit Rossi & fans are blaming now.

When Stoner was winning on the Ducati in 2007, it was considerably better than most of the other bikes out there! Unfortunately the Ducati hasn't really moved on but all the others have! The current lap times of the Ducati are almost identical to previous years, but the Honda/Yam have bettered themselves by 1.5-2 seconds!

[eelracing]

And if you think Stoner relies on traction control to win, you obviously can't read.

It's now pretty much established that TC electrickery is not the be-all and end-all it is perceived to be.
Nowadays it's the engine management systems or more to the point the rediculous rule to limit fuel usage...that's always going to pander to the factory with the most resources.

[SimJen]

they must rely on it a fair bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvP4zdebDwc
Lorenzo had an issue with his traction control not being enabled due to some practice starts, something to do with the need to get past 2nd gear after a launch before it disables anti-wheelie and full TC kicks in. He opens the throttle expectiing it to sort out any slide and bang!

[eelracing]

they must rely on it a fair bit:


Only in practice sessions bud,different story during a race where the power can be curbed back.He just got caught out by slightly cooled tyres,same as Rossi last year.

[gixerracer]

Only in practice sessions bud,different story during a race where the power can be curbed back.He just got caught out by slightly cooled tyres,same as Rossi last year.

Um no he didnt he got caught out by doing a pratice start and only used 1st gear, traction control gets turned off when they hit the launch control button for doing starts and traction control gets reactivated once a gear change is made, he didnt change gear and when he turned the corner and gased it up he got more HP than he was expecting. The rest they say is history

[Crasherfromwayback]

Um no he didnt he got caught out by doing a pratice start and only used 1st gear, traction control gets turned off when they hit the launch control button for doing starts and traction control gets reactivated once a gear change is made, he didnt change gear and when he turned the corner and gased it up he got more HP than he was expecting. The rest they say is history

Wot e said.

[steveyb]

Well for starters...Stoner never once had factory equipment whilst riding 125's or 250's. It's near on impossible to win in those classes without factory equipment.

When he did get factory equipment...he was on an 800cc GP bike. The rest...as they say, is history! And if you think Stoner relies on traction control to win, you obviously can't read. If that's the case, I just wasted time in responding.

I know you are trying hard, but I am pretty sure Pete, that he won't turn for you.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I know you are trying hard, but I am pretty sure Pete, that he won't turn for you.

Hahaha...I know mate. But it's a lil quiet here today, and I'm having fun!

[eelracing]

Um no he didnt he got caught out by doing a pratice start and only used 1st gear, traction control gets turned off when they hit the launch control button for doing starts and traction control gets reactivated once a gear change is made, he didnt change gear and when he turned the corner and gased it up he got more HP than he was expecting. The rest they say is history

Well yeah if you listen to the commentator he's only rabbiting on about what he was told officially by Yamaha.But do you seriuosly believe that TC is gonna save your ass at anywhere near full lean on cooled tyres? Specially those Bridgestones.

[gixerracer]

Well yeah if you listen to the commentator he's only rabbiting on about what he was told officially by Yamaha.But do you seriuosly believe that TC is gonna save your ass at anywhere near full lean on cooled tyres? Specially those Bridgestones.

No I have peps on the inside. Why you think the tyres cooled down that much is ridiculous and to think he is that much of a rookie is also ridiculous:innocent:

[denill]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111012todaysstonerst.htm>Rossi Worshipers - DON'T read this:</A> :innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111012todaysstonerst.htm>Rossi Worshipers - DON'T read this:</A> :innocent:

They'll love it mate. More excuses for them to use.

[Mental Trousers]

<a href=http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111012todaysstonerst.htm>Rossi Worshipers - DON'T read this:</A> :innocent:

That's not saying anything new. Everyone takes fewer risks as they get older. Even Casey Stoner will be far less inclined to ride on the razors edge at 30+ than he does now. Besides, Rossi has said for ages now that he's not prepared to take the risks Casey did to ride that bike.

One thing that Rossi doesn't have to hold him back is children. The Stoners are going to be parents soon and anyone will tell you that has a profound affect on how you approach things.

[SimJen]

One thing that Rossi doesn't have to hold him back is children. The Stoners are going to be parents soon and anyone will tell you that has a profound affect on how you approach things.

Stoner moved to Honda so he wouldn't have to ride on the razors edge!
If Stoner thinks it was hard with his tiredness "illness" he had before, wait until he gets no sleep with a screaming baby in the house!
Its Stoner's year by the look of it, but next year is still anyones guess!
I wouldn't rule out any multiple world champions!

[Crasherfromwayback]

One thing that Rossi doesn't have to hold him back is children. The Stoners are going to be parents soon and anyone will tell you that has a profound affect on how you approach things.

What happened to the rumour of Rossi becoming a dad?

[SimJen]

sounds like its happening: http://darwinzialcita.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/valentino-rossi-is-to-become-a-dad-soon-with-his-girlfriend-marwa-klebi-being-4-months-pregnant/

[Mental Trousers]

What happened to the rumour of Rossi becoming a dad?

I'm just surprised you're not on the Rossi is gay bandwagon!!


sounds like its happening: http://darwinzialcita.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/valentino-rossi-is-to-become-a-dad-soon-with-his-girlfriend-marwa-klebi-being-4-months-pregnant/

Who knows :facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm just surprised you're not on the Rossi is gay bandwagon!!


I only use that one to wind the fans up with. Personally I couldn't care less if he is. Doesn't take away from how good the fucker is!

[Crasherfromwayback]

When Stoner was winning on the Ducati in 2007, it was considerably better than most of the other bikes out there! Unfortunately the Ducati hasn't really moved on but all the others have! The current lap times of the Ducati are almost identical to previous years, but the Honda/Yam have bettered themselves by 1.5-2 seconds!

See what Doohan himself thinks. Not like he's a Moto GP dummy eh?!?!

-- Five-time World Champion Mick Doohan says Stoner has mental edge

When you have 54 Grand Prix victories to your credit, not to mention five consecutive world titles in motorcycle racing’s premier class, there’s a strong chance you know what you’re talking about. So when Mick Doohan says Casey Stoner has the edge on his keenest rivals, it’s worth listening.

Eight victories this season – five more than any other rider in the MotoGP class – bear out Stoner’s renewed claim to the #1 status he earned as the 2007 MotoGP World Champion.

Coming to Phillip Island, the Australian holds a 40-point lead in the standings and another win at the Bass Strait circuit he has dominated for the last four years will virtually seal his second crown.

Back in `07 Stoner was a newcomer to Ducati. He won first time out on the Desmosedici in Qatar and went on to win 10 races in that momentous year – nine more than his highly-regarded teammate Loris Capirossi. Small wonder, then, that Doohan sees the Big Red Bike as one of the key factors in the Stoner success story.

“The Ducati was good for him,” said Doohan just days before the Phillip Island rendezvous. “It was the right move when he went over there but I think it even surprised him how quick he was winning on it, how quick the Championship came.”

Compare that with the experience of Valentino Rossi. The Italian used to be the main man at Phillip Island: he won five years running from 2001-2005, three times on a Honda and twice for Yamaha.

When he made his own switch from Honda to Yamaha, Rossi, like Stoner on the Ducati, knew early success – he won first time out on that bike in South Africa in 2004.

Now though, Rossi is a Ducati man. While Stoner has won eight times on his Honda, Valentino has yet to come within cooee of his first Grand Prix victory on the bike that’s the two-wheeled equivalent of a Ferrari.

In fact Rossi has been to the podium only once this year after finishing third behind Stoner and Andrea Dovizioso in France. He languishes in sixth place, 169 points adrift of his Australian rival. So what’s gone wrong?

Doohan says it’s further evidence of Stoner’s supremacy rather than Rossi’s decline. “Casey seemed to be, over the last few years, the only guy who could consistently pull results on that Ducati; it was night and day between him and his teammate and I think that confirms his dominance,” he says. “Even though he hasn’t won the Championship the last few years, it’s been obvious just how strong a rider, he is.

“I think towards the end of his time at Ducati he was riding that thing beyond what it was capable of: he was in no man’s land a lot, which inherently leads to mistakes – which in bike racing is crashing!

“I think it’s the same thing with Rossi – he’s had a few crashes with it and has realised that riding in that position is only going to lead to more crashes so let’s try and fix the bike! Easier said than done, to get it back into a race-winning position...”

So will we see Rossi back at the front again – the position he has occupied no fewer than 79 times in the premier class alone? “It’s hard to say,” Doohan acknowledges, and he clearly feels time is not on the Italian’s side as Rossi heads towards his mid-thirties.

“He’s been around for a long while and I think that’s the key with any sportsman or sportswoman – how long can you remain completely immersed in the sport and forget about any outside influences? Rossi’s been around with the 125’s, 250’s, MotoGP; he’s got a lot of titles and a lot of seasons under his belt.

“It’s not really injuries coming in, I think it’s more just getting tired and not wanting to push yourself, whereas somebody like Casey has still got the desire to push himself and win championship after championship.

“That’s not to say that somebody like Rossi doesn’t want to be number one – but it’s not going to get any easier for him. And the longer it takes for Ducati to get the bike to a position where he feels comfortable on it, I just feel that where he is in his life-cycle, in his career, he’s not prepared to push it the way that Casey or a younger guy would be prepared to push it to gain the results.

“It’s now a Catch-22: there’s those guys who are prepared to push it, Valentino’s got the experience, but he maybe hasn’t got that desire to push himself beyond the limits anymore.”

Contrast that with Stoner, now striding into his mature years – he will turn 26 on race day at Phillip Island – and looking to add to his already outstanding total of 31Grand Prix wins in the top class. Like the move to Ducati, maybe the move from Ducati has put him back in the right place at the right time.

“Time to move on,” Doohan agrees. “I don’t know whether the enthusiasm at Ducati had waned a little bit or whatever, but they lost direction there at some point. Either that or the other guys – Honda, Yamaha – raised the bar and caught up a little.

“But now Casey’s on that Honda and it’s a much more stable platform, a much more consistent platform for somebody like Casey and the team to work with. Hence his results are a lot more consistent – and he’s not falling off as much.”

So what is it that makes Stoner stand out from the rest? Doohan is in little doubt about where the answer lies. “I think it’s his raw talent to feel and understand what the bike’s doing – and his confidence,” he insists.

“Confidence has a lot to do with it in any sport but especially on two wheels, where believing that you can get away with it is half the battle! You see some of these guys fall off and it’s almost a give-up point, whereas somebody like Stoner will ride through it and believe that he’s not going to crash.

“It takes a real big incident for him to actually crash the bike: we saw that in Japan at the last race when the brakes spread – a lesser rider would have panicked, grabbed a lot more front brake when it eventually did come in, lost the front and gone down.

“It’s all got to do with managing what happens, and when something goes wrong, dealing with it correctly: a good rider can get away with it whereas a lesser rider panics a bit more and you end up on your ears! Casey’s been able to ride it a bit better, and also there’s his desire to be the World Champion.

“He wants to prove to himself that he’s better than everybody out there and prove it to everyone that thinks he’s only doing it because he was on a Ducati. I think he’s shown that the Ducati wasn’t the be-all and end-all ...”

[cowpoos]

What happened to the rumour of Rossi becoming a dad?

He's gay.......which also describes his riding these day's

[tigertim20]

See what Doohan himself thinks. Not like he's a Moto GP dummy eh?!?!

-- Five-time World Champion Mick Doohan says Stoner has mental edge

..”
Im not even gonna read all that, because alot has changed since doohan was at the helm of a bike, in terms of mechanics technology data collection etc etc etc. and isnt doohan an aussie? of course he will support his fellow countryman.
I wont deny that stoner has the goods at the momment, his current results speak for themselves, but doohan, well, fuck him, he's yesterdays fish and chips wrapper and tomorrow's kitty litter tray liner.:shutup:

He's gay.......which also describes his riding these day's

Yes, but if being gay gave you the skills he has, I bet youd be 5 inches into your first cock already:sick:

[gixerracer]

This thread should be changed to Ducati are making NO progress:whocares:

[gixerracer]

That's not saying anything new. Everyone takes fewer risks as they get older. Even Casey Stoner will be far less inclined to ride on the razors edge at 30+ than he does now. Besides, Rossi has said for ages now that he's not prepared to take the risks Casey did to ride that bike.

One thing that Rossi doesn't have to hold him back is children. The Stoners are going to be parents soon and anyone will tell you that has a profound affect on how you approach things.

That is the oldest load of horse shit I have ever herd. If it was true teams would not hire riders with kids because they will be slower than those without.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That is the oldest load of horse shit I have ever herd. If it was true teams would not hire riders with kids because they will be slower than those without.

I personally can't see Stoner slowing down now he's gonna be a dad. In fact...I can see it getting pretty sad for the rest next year...

[Mental Trousers]

That is the oldest load of horse shit I have ever herd. If it was true teams would not hire riders with kids because they will be slower than those without.

Didn't say it would. Kids are one of the things that contribute to people backing off a little when they're older, not the only one. People who do stuff solely for their kids don't race bikes at all.

Guys who get married don't want to see their wife crying in the hospital after they've had a big crash. Some don't want to rely on someone else to wipe their arse while they were laid up in hospital cos they couldn't do it themselves. Some don't want their parents to out live them. There's lots of other things that add up and make people (not just motorbike racers) back off just a fraction but none of them means a team won't take them on.

There wouldn't be any motorsport if teams started deciding not to hire someone based on them having kids or being married etc.

[SimJen]

See what Doohan himself thinks. Not like he's a Moto GP dummy eh?!?!

-- Five-time World Champion Mick Doohan says Stoner has mental edge


Doohan used to go on about Rossi's opposition when Rossi was with Honda and being "mentored" by him.
Doohan is still massively affiliated with Honda, he and other washed up champions always come out and say something against the oppositions riders! I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt to be honest! Especially as he's still on Honda's payroll!
Ducati have a long way to go, it looks like they've pretty much given up this year, but next year might be a different story.....I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Doohan used to go on about Rossi's opposition when Rossi was with Honda and being "mentored" by him.
Doohan is still massively affiliated with Honda, he and other washed up champions always come out and say something against the oppositions riders! I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt to be honest! Especially as he's still on Honda's payroll!
Ducati have a long way to go, it looks like they've pretty much given up this year, but next year might be a different story.....I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

Doohan hasn't been on Honda's payroll for years mate. Also..."A pinch of salt"??? I've never in my life seen Mick Doohan say anything other than what he really thinks!!!

Seems you Rossi lovers are really having trouble with Stoners ability eh???

[SimJen]

Doohan hasn't been on Honda's payroll for years mate. Also..."A pinch of salt"??? I've never in my life seen Mick Doohan say anything other than what he really thinks!!!

Seems you Rossi lovers are really having trouble with Stoners ability eh???

Well he spends a lot of time in Honda's pits and does a fair bit of corporate schmoozing! I'd say there is a vested interest there with Doohan. Like I said he's said similar things in the past about other non honda riders!
I have no problem with Stoners ability, he seems to be doing very well and changing to the Honda was obviously a good move!
I have utmost respect for almost all of them, but never really liked Stoner or Pedo for some reason? They don't really seem to have any personality to speak of, in my opinion!
I'm a Ducati fan first and foremost and would love to see them get it right irrelevant of who's riding!
They did it in WSBK against stiff opposition!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm a Ducati fan first and foremost and would love to see them get it right irrelevant of who's riding!
They did it in WSBK against stiff opposition!

So did you cheer for Stoner when he was WINNING on the Ducati Rossi can't ride?

And good for Checa...but I think it also shows what a sad state WSB has got it's self in.

[slowpoke]

Didn't say it would. Kids are one of the things that contribute to people backing off a little when they're older, not the only one. People who do stuff solely for their kids don't race bikes at all.

Guys who get married don't want to see their wife crying in the hospital after they've had a big crash. Some don't want to rely on someone else to wipe their arse while they were laid up in hospital cos they couldn't do it themselves. Some don't want their parents to out live them. There's lots of other things that add up and make people (not just motorbike racers) back off just a fraction but none of them means a team won't take them on.

There wouldn't be any motorsport if teams started deciding not to hire someone based on them having kids or being married etc.

Someone forgot to tell Andrew Stroud, Max Biaggi, Troy Bayliss and co......

[Crasherfromwayback]

Someone forgot to tell Andrew Stroud, Max Biaggi, Troy Bayliss and co......

Matt Mladin.

[Mental Trousers]

Someone forgot to tell Andrew Stroud, Max Biaggi, Troy Bayliss and co......

Each time Stroudy wins a championship he gets nailed by Karen!! Talk about inspiration to go faster.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Each time Stroudy wins a championship he gets nailed by Karen!! Talk about inspiration to go faster.

He certainly seems to get better with age!

[reggie1198]

I can't believe there are people in this forum say Ducati should abandon the C/F route in favour of the "tried and tested, just like everyone else is doing" route.

Two words for ya people

JOHN BRITTON.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I can't believe there are people in this forum say Ducati should abandon the C/F route in favour of the "tried and tested, just like everyone else is doing" route.

Two words for ya people

JOHN BRITTON.

Do you know how badly John Brittens bike handled in the grand scheme of things mate? It wasted other bikes of the time with HP, not handling prowess.

[reggie1198]

Do you know how badly John Brittens bike handled in the grand scheme of things mate? It wasted other bikes of the time with HP, not handling prowess.

It doesn't matter, the point was more about doing it and learning as you go, Ducati won their 1st moto GP title with stoner on a bike that didn't do corners that well, but F@#k me that thing was quick on the straights.
The world is full of people telling you you can't do something, it'll never work, and very few people telling you that you can.
Hence I stand by my original JOHN BRITTON.

[Crasherfromwayback]

.
The world is full of people telling you you can't do something, it'll never work, and very few people telling you that you can.
Hence I stand by my original JOHN BRITTON.

Maybe so...but a lot of them say so as they've already tried to no avail.

And it's John BrittEn.

[Edbear]

Maybe so...but a lot of them say so as they've already tried to no avail.

And it's John BrittEn.

The reason the telescopic fork is still being used today, despite being inherently less than ideal is that it has been developed to the point where riders can get the best out of it and it is cheaper to build. In other words, it is all that we as humans need or can use at this time.

Not all technological advances are workable due to the fact that human beings are required to operate it and if it is beyond the human ability to operate it effectively, it is of little value. If telescopic forks couldn't perform to our requirements they would have been ditched many years ago. As with so many bikes these days and with so much technology, it is limited by our ability to utilise it and get the best out of it.

That's why, if you put me, say, on a thou and Shaun on a 250 and set us off on a race track, I'd probably struggle to see which way he went...

Put us both on 600's and give mine the best of everything re: suspension and brakes and deliberately stuff up Shaun's bike settings and the result would still be the same.

If riders of the calibre of Rossi, can't sort the bike, it is pointless pursuing the technology without some reassurance that he will in time get it right and start winning on it.

[reggie1198]

"The reason the telescopic fork is still being used today, despite being inherently less than ideal is that it has been developed to the point where riders can get the best out of it and it is cheaper to build. In other words, it is all that we as humans need or can use at this time."

Until someone comes up with the next big idea - at some point in the past telescopic forks were "the next big idea"

Why not use the electromagnetic dampering on the front forks (like a lot of sports cars are bringing out now) with a circuit that can detect when it's the brakes being used over bumps/deceleration.
It would reduce front end dive under hard braking while still giving a complient ride.

Any reason why this wouldn't work.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It would reduce front end dive under hard braking while still giving a complient ride.

Any reason why this wouldn't work.

We've already had anti dive forks mate. They suck arse.

[reggie1198]

We've already had anti dive forks mate. They suck arse.

lol - there you go then, tried and failed

[Crasherfromwayback]

lol - there you go then, tried and failed

Aye! But Robert Taylor can bring you up to speed with the new Ohlins technology regarding electronic suspension for bikes.

[bogan]

Aye! But Robert Taylor can bring you up to speed with the new Ohlins technology regarding electronic suspension for bikes.

Think he is more talking about the Bose active suspension, which weighs a fair bit, and requires a bit of electricity too.

But didn't I hear something like .5s a lap with ohlins active valved forks due mainly to later braking ability?

either way, they are both banned from pretty much all forms of motorsport I think, arseholes!

[SimJen]

So did you cheer for Stoner when he was WINNING on the Ducati Rossi can't ride?

And good for Checa...but I think it also shows what a sad state WSB has got it's self in.

I cheered for Capirossi actually as I'm not a big Stoner fan!
Stoner walked away with the Philip Island win! First four bikes were Honda's, all considerably faster than the Yamaha's/Dukes/Suzuki.
Honda have really got it right this year, yes the Ducati is fooked but the others aren't doing that well either! The Honda is definately the bike to be on, and coupled with Stoners ability to reel off the consistent laps he has been a force to be reckoned with!

[slowpoke]

It doesn't matter, the point was more about doing it and learning as you go, Ducati won their 1st moto GP title with stoner on a bike that didn't do corners that well, but F@#k me that thing was quick on the straights.


Ducati had also taken the punt on changing from the previously dominant Michelin tyres to Bridgestone, and their timing couldn't have been better. 2007 and Stoner cleaned up on the Bridgestones prompting Rossi to spit the chewy and demand the same. His point was made when he pretty much reversed the shelaccing he'd received the prvious year.

The Ducati did corners just fine. Capirossi/Ducati were right in the hunt for the 2006 championship until that huge Turn 1 crash with Gibernau cruelled htheir season, and even Bayliss stepped in for that epic one off win at Valencia to finish the season so there wasn't much wrong with the bike Stoner inherited.

[gixerracer]

Well done Ducati you are making great progress:facepalm:

[SimJen]

Honda are the only ones in the running now!

[Edbear]

Think he is more talking about the Bose active suspension, which weighs a fair bit, and requires a bit of electricity too.

But didn't I hear something like .5s a lap with ohlins active valved forks due mainly to later braking ability?

either way, they are both banned from pretty much all forms of motorsport I think, arseholes!

Like F1, the technology race has been stalled due to the requirement to keep the racing as close as possible, and mainly reliant on driver/rider ability. I was keenly interested in the tech advances in F1 until it got too expensive and cost came into it affecting the racing results. "The more you spend the more you win." So these days it's more about refining a set of parameters and getting the best out of what is allowed in order that each driver/rider can perform to the best of their ability. T

The teams rely on the chassis and engine gurus to make sure they are at the limits of what they can get out of the bike, and the rest is up to the rider.

It would be fun to have a series where technology can have its head, but I doubt anyone could afford to run one.

[Mental Trousers]

It would be fun to have a series where technology can have its head, but I doubt anyone could afford to run one.

At the moment Moto2 is about the closest there is to this on the World Series scene. The problem is that the bikes have to be quick straight up and sponsorship money is difficult to hold onto so nobody is willing to take a risk on developing a new chassis design or whatever etc. It's all about evolution of the current technology/designs rather than taking a punt on something that is potentially faster but will take time and lots of trial and error to iron out the kinks.

The sponsorship dollar demands results now.

[denill]

<a href=http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/21/2011_sepang_motogp_friday_round_up_pedro.html> Rossi told reporters that everything they have tried so far has not helped. Changing the front subframe, changing the material used to produce it from carbon fiber to aluminium, changing the rear swingarm mount, all this has made no difference to the lack of front-end feel, and Rossi is stuck down in 13th at the end of the first day of practice at Sepang. He is the 5th fastest Ducati, with only Hector Barbera - still recovering from his injuries sustained at Motegi, and incapable of running more than four laps without a pain-killing injection - behind him. Even teammate Nicky Hayden is a lowly 11th, with Karel Abraham and Randy de Puniet ahead of him.

Valentino Rossi won here last year. With a shoulder that was still causing him problems. That was his last victory, with a winless season now a virtual certainty, the first of his career. There is reason to hope that things will be better next year - if not for the massive amount of work done by Ducati in the attempt to find a solution, then because of the different way the 1000s can be ridden, with much less emphasis on front-end grip - but it's been a long and very hard year on everyone at Ducati, not just on Valentino Rossi. His season is taking on shades of Marco Melandri's ill-fated season on the factory Ducati, but without the prospect of an early release from the contract. And more:</A>

[steveyb]

The last thing left then, as other scribes have identified as the actual problem, is the engine.....

[slowpoke]

Something else to ponder: Japanese bikes are cleaning up on Japanese tyres (MotoGP) and Italian bikes are cleaning up on Italian tyres (WSBK).....coincidence?

[Crasherfromwayback]

coincidence?

I'd say so.

[vifferman]

There's a nother thing to consider (if it hasn't already been mentioned - and I'm not going back to check all the posts). Honda probably have by far the biggest budget, and put it to good use last year for this season by poaching experts from other teams, to get the handling, power and electronics of their bikes sorted. THAT'S the main reason the Hondas are fastest.
I've found most of the MotoGP races pretty boring this year, and for a change have found the Moto2 and 125s much more interesting, as the playing field seems much more level, and results are mainly down to rider ability. I'm really hoping next year will be more interesting, but I won't be holding my breath...

[tigertim20]

There's a nother thing to consider (if it hasn't already been mentioned - and I'm not going back to check all the posts). Honda probably have by far the biggest budget, and put it to good use last year for this season by poaching experts from other teams, to get the handling, power and electronics of their bikes sorted. THAT'S the main reason the Hondas are fastest.
I've found most of the MotoGP races pretty boring this year, and for a change have found the Moto2 and 125s much more interesting, as the playing field seems much more level, and results are mainly down to rider ability. I'm really hoping next year will be more interesting, but I won't be holding my breath...

i think its likely to be a major contributing factor. Stoner lovers will say fuck off, its all stoner, stoner haters will say yeah yeah, its the money.
The reality is basically that Honda has a massive budget, and with that budget can find the absolute limits within the currently defined set of rules. Its not just stoner being dominant, other honda bikes, or bikes provided by honda to sattelite teams have been doing quite well too.
Whether it comes down partly to budget or not (and I think it does) the bottom line is this: Honda have put together the best package. A good rider, with good techs, good factory support, and they're winning.

I think the first half of next season will definitely be exciting. Only a few of the current crop have any experience at all with motoGP thous in a race, and it will take a few races at least for people to get out there, and actually in a race sort out teething issues and get comfprtable on the things. Practice on a new bike vs actually racing a new bike are two quite different things.

After about a third to haldway through the season I imagine that a few select riders will have got their shit sorted and will be streaking ahead of the rest of the field in terms of results.

Id like to see the championship come down to the last race - thats exciting!

[Crasherfromwayback]

and it will take a few races at least for people to get out there, and actually in a race sort out teething issues and get comfprtable on the things. Practice on a new bike vs actually racing a new bike are two quite different things.

!

Nah mate...they'll be straight into it. The good thing with the thous (well one of the good things), is that they'll have so much power and torque that it will certainly come down to who can use it all best. The gap between factory and satelite teams will close up a fair bit I'd imagine.

[tigertim20]

Nah mate...they'll be straight into it. The good thing with the thous (well one of the good things), is that they'll have so much power and torque that it will certainly come down to who can use it all best. The gap between factory and satelite teams will close up a fair bit I'd imagine.

I hope you're right about the gap being closed a bit, it would be nice to see the claiming rule teams get into some good battles with say middle or lower half pack riders - sometimes those are the best battles with 3,4,5 bikes vying for the one place.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I hope you're right about the gap being closed a bit, it would be nice to see the claiming rule teams get into some good battles with say middle or lower half pack riders - sometimes those are the best battles with 3,4,5 bikes vying for the one place.

While I'd love to see it...I think the CRT bikes will only be dicing with other CRT bikes.

[tigertim20]

While I'd love to see it...I think the CRT bikes will only be dicing with other CRT bikes.

I think you're dead on, but I can hope!!.

It gets a bit boring when theres a set order that tends to be the same every week. Im almost considering switching my interests to bsb or wsbk instead, and if next season continues in the same vein as much of this season, I just might.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It gets a bit boring when theres a set order that tends to be the same every week. Im almost considering switching my interests to bsb or wsbk instead, and if next season continues in the same vein as much of this season, I just might.

For me...even if the racing is not overly close in MotoGP...I simply marvel at the riding skills being shown by the sick fucker winning the race!

[denill]

While I'd love to see it...I think the CRT bikes will only be dicing with other CRT bikes.

Yes, that will be a contest in it's own right. The contest to be the first CRT will be fascinating. :woohoo:

[codgyoleracer]

Yes, that will be a contest in it's own right. The contest to be the first CRT will be fascinating. :woohoo:


Will be intersting to see if they can sell the concept to the viewers, - if it gets too confusing then many will go and watch golf instead.........

[cowpoos]

<a href=http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/21/2011_sepang_motogp_friday_round_up_pedro.html> Rossi told reporters that everything they have tried so far has not helped. Changing the front subframe, changing the material used to produce it from carbon fiber to aluminium, changing the rear swingarm mount, all this has made no difference to the lack of front-end feel, and Rossi is stuck down in 13th at the end of the first day of practice at Sepang. He is the 5th fastest Ducati, with only Hector Barbera - still recovering from his injuries sustained at Motegi, and incapable of running more than four laps without a pain-killing injection - behind him. Even teammate Nicky Hayden is a lowly 11th, with Karel Abraham and Randy de Puniet ahead of him.

Valentino Rossi won here last year. With a shoulder that was still causing him problems. That was his last victory, with a winless season now a virtual certainty, the first of his career. There is reason to hope that things will be better next year - if not for the massive amount of work done by Ducati in the attempt to find a solution, then because of the different way the 1000s can be ridden, with much less emphasis on front-end grip - but it's been a long and very hard year on everyone at Ducati, not just on Valentino Rossi. His season is taking on shades of Marco Melandri's ill-fated season on the factory Ducati, but without the prospect of an early release from the contract. And more:</A>



I thought the first comment below that article summed things up very well!!

Comments
Now that it has come from the
Submitted by Damo on Sat, 2011-10-22 01:06.
Site Supporter

Now that it has come from the horses mouth, perhaps the legend of Valentino's incredible development skills can finally be put to rest.

Unfortunately for the team, they have failed to achieve a solution and Rossi still appears to refuse to attempt to ride around the problems for results in the meantime. In all honesty, it may not be a lack of intent.. but in this case, a lack of ability.

Unfortunately for Valentino, his days of being gifted with a competitive and well supported bike throughout his career have turned around and bitten him hard. He obviously expects the bike to do certain things, and react in certain ways - and also expect the factory to respond when he speaks. For the first time in his career he is experiencing what *most* riders go through throughout their careers - inferior machinery, unable to compete effectively at the pointy end of the field without taking big risks, and no-one really listening to their requests.

Some riders come up through the ranks and show potential by riding around these issues and remaining competitive within the constraints of their machinery. It's not only a Stoner thing, there have been plenty of others before him.. he just seemed to do it better than most.

Valentino is at the other end of his career where he expects all of these things to be laid out for him, no doubt with a clear cut red carpet thoroughfare and grapes lining each side. Ducati can't offer what others can, and the grapes have definitely turned sour.

I used to idolise Valentino. His skill has been unmatched in recent memory (well.. not TOO recent..), and his career has definitely been a pleasure to witness it unfold.

But the last two years have also shown the egomanic side of his personality that is no doubt a by-product of being on top for so long, and having everything stacked in your favour to boot. Having that ripped out from underneath him, especially when they proclaimed to have all of the answers before throwing a leg over the bike must be truly humbling.

He has put both Lorenzo and Stoner through a lot over the last few years, and they are now paying him back in spades.

Having this much egg on your face on such a huge, public arena must be humbling to say the least. His aura has plummeted from the sky at a fast rate of knots, and just how deeply it ends up in the ground remains to be written.

My guess is that the first nails are being driven in as 2011 winds up. Sad way to go out if that's the case.

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[trustme]

Nah mate...they'll be straight into it. The good thing with the thous (well one of the good things), is that they'll have so much power and torque that it will certainly come down to who can use it all best. The gap between factory and satelite teams will close up a fair bit I'd imagine.

We normally sing off a similar song sheet but, the aliens will widen the gap. Stoner will disappear way into the distance . That's my pick

Aliens will still be aliens, more power simply accentuates the difference in ability.

Stoner has the best throttle control off all. he is the best at riding the fine balance between the electronics, power & tyres.

[tigertim20]

I thought the first comment below that article summed things up very well!!

Comments
Now that it has come from the
Submitted by Damo on Sat, 2011-10-22 01:06.
Site Supporter

Now that it has come from the horses mouth, perhaps the legend of Valentino's incredible development skills can finally be put to rest.

Unfortunately for the team, they have failed to achieve a solution and Rossi still appears to refuse to attempt to ride around the problems for results in the meantime. In all honesty, it may not be a lack of intent.. but in this case, a lack of ability.

Unfortunately for Valentino, his days of being gifted with a competitive and well supported bike throughout his career have turned around and bitten him hard. He obviously expects the bike to do certain things, and react in certain ways - and also expect the factory to respond when he speaks. For the first time in his career he is experiencing what *most* riders go through throughout their careers - inferior machinery, unable to compete effectively at the pointy end of the field without taking big risks, and no-one really listening to their requests.

Some riders come up through the ranks and show potential by riding around these issues and remaining competitive within the constraints of their machinery. It's not only a Stoner thing, there have been plenty of others before him.. he just seemed to do it better than most.

Valentino is at the other end of his career where he expects all of these things to be laid out for him, no doubt with a clear cut red carpet thoroughfare and grapes lining each side. Ducati can't offer what others can, and the grapes have definitely turned sour.

I used to idolise Valentino. His skill has been unmatched in recent memory (well.. not TOO recent..), and his career has definitely been a pleasure to witness it unfold.

But the last two years have also shown the egomanic side of his personality that is no doubt a by-product of being on top for so long, and having everything stacked in your favour to boot. Having that ripped out from underneath him, especially when they proclaimed to have all of the answers before throwing a leg over the bike must be truly humbling.

He has put both Lorenzo and Stoner through a lot over the last few years, and they are now paying him back in spades.

Having this much egg on your face on such a huge, public arena must be humbling to say the least. His aura has plummeted from the sky at a fast rate of knots, and just how deeply it ends up in the ground remains to be written.

My guess is that the first nails are being driven in as 2011 winds up. Sad way to go out if that's the case.

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sounds biased.
Rossi may well be at the end of his career, if so, so be it.
But I wont be idolisinf stoner untill he has as many moto gp championshiop wins as rossi. some point to total race wins, but having lots over a few seasons to me means alot less than overall championship wins over a greater span of years - i wish stoner the best in quest to acheive this though.

People do seem though to forget that the bikes have not remained unchanged for four years, many things have changed, some for the better, some not so much.

Big picture, we cant realistically assess the current status quo for another couple of years when we have seen how it all pans out.

And there is more to moto gp that stoner and rossi.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I used to idolise Valentino. His skill has been unmatched in recent memory (well.. not TOO recent..), and his career has definitely been a pleasure to witness it unfold.

But the last two years have also shown the egomanic side of his personality that is no doubt a by-product of being on top for so long, and having everything stacked in your favour to boot. Having that ripped out from underneath him, especially when they proclaimed to have all of the answers before throwing a leg over the bike must be truly humbling.

He has put both Lorenzo and Stoner through a lot over the last few years, and they are now paying him back in spades.


I'd always been a fan of Rossi...but very quickly became less of one once he started throwing his weight around and demanding things. Michelin had always supplied him superior tyres to everyone else. One off made the night before kind of stuff. But as soon as Bridgestone started to gain the upper hand, Rossi very quickly lost all brand loyalty and demanded Bridgstones half way through the season. Lorenzo did not get the same treatment. Rossi has often chosen his team mate. Obviously he'd like one he can always beat. When Yamaha signed Lorenzo, Rossi was for the first time, seriously threatened by his younger/newer team mate. He spat the dummy and demanded Yamaha choose between them. Yamaha made the right choice.

Rossi was born into GP racing, and had all of the doors opened for him. For his seven titles in the premier class he's beaten...(2nd-3rd & 4th place shown)

2001: Biaggi-Capirossi-Barros

2002: Biaggi-Ukawa-Barros

2003: Gibernau-Biaggi-Capirossi

2004: Gibernau-Biaggi-Barros

2005: Melandri-Hayned-Edwards

2006: Nicky Hayden won the title. (Rossi-Capirossi-Melandri)

2007: Casey Stoner won the title. (Pedrosa-Rossi-Hopkins) Stoners team mate Capirossi, was 7th.

2008: Stoner-Pedrosa-Lorenzo

2009: Lorenzo(the writing was on the wall)-Pedrosa-Stoner

2010: Lorenzo won the title

2011: Stoner won the title

To me...his two titles from 2008/2009, are really the only ones that are worth fuck all. Be honest. From 2001 through to 2005 he beat up on guys who were never actually worthy of being premier class champs. After the arrival of Stoner and Lorenzo...he's won two and lost three championships. And you wanna say that Stoner has the best bike now? Well Rossi has had the best bike most of the time. The Yamaha certainly was in 08/09. The Honda was certainly the bike to have in 2001-2002-2003. Rossi has started in 197 Gp's so far, and won 79 of them for a win ratio of 40.1%. Stoner has started in 99 Gp's, with 32 wins for a ratio of 32.3 %. As the Gp's tick over...only serious injury/retirement will stop Stoner beating that race/win ratio.

Then...you Rossi bumlickers can shut the fuck up.

PS; How many Ducati's do you think Rossi is selling for them?



We normally sing off a similar song sheet but, the aliens will widen the gap. Stoner will disappear way into the distance . That's my pick

Stoner has the best throttle control off all. he is the best at riding the fine balance between the electronics, power & tyres.

Stoner is a mega multiple time dirt track and long track champ. The more HP and the less grip the better. If they banned the electronics...Stoner would be gone. All of his previous team mates have marvelled at his throttle control.

[roogazza]

This guy seems to have it pretty well summed up.

http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/21/2011_sepang_motogp_friday_round_up_pedro.html#comm ent-26616

[DidJit]

So does this guy (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/22/2011_sepang_motogp_saturday_round_up_on_.html). 6th paragraph.

[slowpoke]

I kinda agree about some of Rossi's opposition Pete, but that's a big call not rating Max Biaggi. 4 x World GP250 titles on the trot, for 2 different manufacturers makes him a legend, even if he's not a very popular legend. Even as a GP500 rookie he was good enough to seriously challenge a half decent rider by the name of Doohan. And based on your logic regarding the quality of opposition we shouldn't read too much into Doohan's gazillion titles because there wasn' much opposition in 95/96/97/98? Nah, credit where credit is due, you can only beat the guys who rock up, none of them are mugs, and only look a bit ordinary because one of them is extra-ordinary.

The tyre thing is a lot more complicated than you make out, with the introduction of tyre restrictions obviously favouring the way Bridgestone operated and produced their tyres. Capirossi and Bayliss (in that one off ride) showed how good the Ducati/Bridgestone package was and that's what Stoner inherited. Can you imagine say Checa stepping in for a one off ride and winning on the Ducati MotoGP bike now? Not a fuckin' hope in hell, and that's what Rossi has inherited. Yep, Stoner could win on it but he also had 5 DNF's in trying to do so in 2010 and Rossi (3) finished in front of Stoner (4) despite missing 4 races with that busted leg.

For all Stoner's brilliance on track he's been equally brilliant off it in timing/picking his rides. I'm not saying he doesn't seserve his titles, he does, but the stars have also aligned whether by chance or design.

[denill]

Whilst I can be called a Stoner fan - I am NOT a Rossi hater and I feel cheated that the Rossi/Burgess & co team have not provided us with a competitive Ducati in 2011. I thought that they would and would have bet big money that they would. They haven't and MotoGP has lost out badly. In fact the accountants could now say no to Ducati's MotoGP involvement in the future.

[slowpoke]

Whilst I can be called a Stoner fan - I am NOT a Rossi hater and I feel cheated that the Rossi/Burgess & co team have not provided us with a competitive Ducati in 2011. I thought that they would and would have bet big money that they would. They haven't and MotoGP has lost out badly. In fact the accountants could now say no to Ducati's MotoGP involvement in the future.

Eggzactly! I don't wanna see Stoner have a season like last year anymore than I want to see Pedrosa/Lorenzo ruled out with injury or Rossi on an uncompetitive bike. I doubt it will happen but it'd be a barn burner of a season if they all stayed healthy and closed some of the gaps between the machines, any one of them is a worthy World Champion.

[rachprice]

any one of them is a worthy World Champion.

Amen to that

[Crasherfromwayback]

Amen to that

Amen times ten. The last place finisher in Moto GP is a racing God.

[denill]

Amen times ten. The last place finisher in Moto GP is a racing God.

That has been reinforced to me by seeing how a rider like Katsuyuki Nakasuga, a Yamaha test rider of no mean ability can be so off the pace.

When you see the MotoGP bikes squirming around - it is a fact that they are ALL out of this world.

[cowpoos]

Amen times ten. The last place finisher in Moto GP is a racing God.

Are you talking about Rossi...lol
:banana:

[Mental Trousers]

Amen times ten. The last place finisher in Moto GP is a racing God.

The last placed regular in Moto GP is a current World Champion :shit:

EDIT actually he's not lowest placed of the regulars ...... but you know what I mean!!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

The last placed regular in Moto GP is a current World Champion :shit:

EDIT actually he's not lowest placed of the regulars ...... but you know what I mean!!!

I dig!!!!!

[Bender]

Like it or not (and I don't) Stoner is a notch above Rossi, Pedrosa and Lorenzo. If they were on identical bikes he would slowly pull away from them and win all the time.

[tigertim20]

Like it or not (and I don't) Stoner is a notch above Rossi, Pedrosa and Lorenzo. If they were on identical bikes he would slowly pull away from them and win all the time.

If they were on equal bikes, they could potentially get close enough to pressure him, as it is, he gets a good start, and thats it, he's in space for the entire race, no pressure, no threats, nothing, just all alone without someone riding aggressively and attacking him forcing/tricking him into errors that can be capitolised on.

[Crasherfromwayback]

If they were on equal bikes, they could potentially get close enough to pressure him, as it is, he gets a good start, and thats it, he's in space for the entire race, no pressure, no threats, nothing, just all alone without someone riding aggressively and attacking him forcing/tricking him into errors that can be capitolised on.

You mean like at Laguna Seca this year?

[tigertim20]

You mean like at Laguna Seca this year?

cant say I reclalll much about the laguna race. but what im saying is that yes stoner seems to be doing better than the rest, but I also think the bikes are a factor that shouldnt be ignored. on the same bike, they=re would simply be more opportunities, other would have a greater chance of contesting stoner for pole, making it harder to get that ju,p he always gets on the front row, and theyd have a bike capable of keeping up at least enough to cause constant pressure. I Just dont see stoner get challenged in a race. if he did, maybe hed get passed more, maybe not, but al least it would make for better racing, and chances are, the more pressure he's under, the more he is likely to make errors, which he doesnt make now because he has the bike AND the skills combo.

Im sure those bikes have as much unique characteristics between them as any other bikes, theyre far from identical, who knows what would happen if you swapped it up a bunch, and a few others got a better bike?.
Given Bautista's improvements the last few races on that piece of underfunded shit, Id like to see what he could do with a day on a factory honda, not saying he would pip stoner or anything, just that there is more to it than outright skill.

[pritch]

Given Bautista's improvements the last few races on that piece of underfunded shit, Id like to see what he could do with a day on a factory honda, not saying he would pip stoner or anything, just that there is more to it than outright skill.

Bautista is potentially quite special. IIRC for 56 125 GPs there had not been anyone win two in a row, suddenly Bautista won five on the trot.

I really would like to see what he could do on a competitive bike.

[slowpoke]

Ducati have no doubt been hamstrung by the current testing restrictions, but that may be all about to change: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Oct/111028moa1qd.htm

They might have a fighting chance after all.

[k14]

Given Bautista's improvements the last few races on that piece of underfunded shit, Id like to see what he could do with a day on a factory honda, not saying he would pip stoner or anything, just that there is more to it than outright skill.


Bautista is potentially quite special. IIRC for 56 125 GPs there had not been anyone win two in a row, suddenly Bautista won five on the trot.

I really would like to see what he could do on a competitive bike.
Yes his feats on the Suzuki seem to show that he is a quality rider. I could never understand his reason for signing with Suzuki in the first place, for every rider that has ever signed with them in the 4 stroke era it has essentially ended their career. Vermeulen would most likely of had a Honda ride if he waited another year, now where is he?? I know this might be jumping the gun a bit but there is possibly a Honda that potentially could see Bautista on it next year. If Suzuki keep stuffing around with no announcement it would make a lot of sense to explore his options. Although maybe he is resigned to the fact he is just racing for the pay cheque and not a world championship.

[gixerracer]

Yes his feats on the Suzuki seem to show that he is a quality rider. I could never understand his reason for signing with Suzuki in the first place, for every rider that has ever signed with them in the 4 stroke era it has essentially ended their career. Vermeulen would most likely of had a Honda ride if he waited another year, now where is he?? I know this might be jumping the gun a bit but there is possibly a Honda that potentially could see Bautista on it next year. If Suzuki keep stuffing around with no announcement it would make a lot of sense to explore his options. Although maybe he is resigned to the fact he is just racing for the pay cheque and not a world championship.

Obviously you have all the information then.:no:

[k14]

Obviously you have all the information then.:no:
Well enlighten me then.

[gav]

Bautista should grab that LCR Honda especially if its a factory Honda on offer. The one that was lined up for Marquez maybe? And maybe a spot open at Gresini too?

[BMWST?]

I think you're dead on, but I can hope!!.

It gets a bit boring when theres a set order that tends to be the same every week. Im almost considering switching my interests to bsb or wsbk instead, and if next season continues in the same vein as much of this season, I just might.

good luck with that,the Ducati/Checa combination was even more dominant than Stoner/Honda

[k14]

good luck with that,the Ducati/Checa combination was even more dominant than Stoner/Honda
Yeah WSBK was only marginally more interesting than MotoGP.

I will be shot for saying this but at the moment the best premier racing is F1. They seem to have got the technology/driver balance right this year with some great racing and plenty of passing. Even a few races being decided on the last lap.

[Drew]

Yeah WSBK was only marginally more interesting than MotoGP.

I will be shot for saying this but at the moment the best premier racing is F1. They seem to have got the technology/driver balance right this year with some great racing and plenty of passing. Even a few races being decided on the last lap.:ar15::ar15::ar15:


V8 supercars is way cooler to watch.