Help with fines - splitting and red light?

[over5tayer]

So about a month ago i was heading onto the Southern Motorway via the Wairau on-ramp (controlled by on-ramp traffic lights). It was 7.40am and traffic was pretty heavy so i decided to split up to the front of the lights and merge in with the cars at the end. As i was splitting, a motorcycle cop was coming down the motorway - he had a clear view of me. He pulled me over 200 meters after the lights and said that i "was splitting way too fast". He had time to get his speed gun out and pinged me doing 40kmph. He must have scanned me as i approached the lights because i accelerated to make the green (which i just made). He said i was being reckless and threatened to impound my bike. I didnt talk back or anything even though he kept digging into me. I'm a relatively new rider but i've done about 40,000k's in the past few years, most of which through heavy traffic. I have a pretty good grip on danger signs and riding within my limits.

In the end the cop 'let me off' with a $300 fine. $150 for "being the driver of a vehicle on a road marked in lanes moved from a lane before ascertaining that the manoeuvre could be made safely". And another $150 for driver "failed to stop at a red traffic signal in the form of a disc".

I'm a student and theres no way i can afford these fines. I struggle enough keeping my rego up to date and my bike serviced. I did not run the red light but i did go through the green with 2 other cars.

even if i write in explaining my case and i only get off 1 of the fines it will be a big help. Is there anything i can say that will help my chances?

I dont want to dig into the cop because i know he's a member on this site (he wouldnt tell me his username)... but did i mention that he began splitting down the motorway right after handing me the fine?

thanks in advance for any constructive feedback :)

[nodrog]

just pay it off a $5 a week if you are such a brokenarse, taking it to court and whinging about being poor isnt going to help.

[Scuba_Steve]

If the light wasn't red the light wasn't red that should be a no-brainier & if it was green then there should be no argument.

Other one, I don't know, only you could tell if you "ascertained that the manoeuvre could be made safely" if you did then argue it.

[tigertim20]

you can write a letter, writing in isnt going to hurt. you may or may not get off one, or both.
Aside from that, you can go into the fines department at the courts, and sign a thing that says you're poor as fuck, and you can pay themoff. $10 per week is the minimum you can pay as i understand it, that will at least make paying it more easy.

[Mom]

if it was green then there should be no argument.

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go. It must have looked out of place to the cop for him to have pulled his radar and clocked the OP. I guess, the saying do the crime, pay the fine springs to mind here.

If you cant afford the fine then wait for it to go to court. You will get costs on top of the fine, but you will be able to make a repayment arrangement.

[tigertim20]

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go. It must have looked out of place to the cop for him to have pulled his radar and clocked the OP. I guess, the saying do the crime, pay the fine springs to mind here.

If you cant afford the fine then wait for it to go to court. You will get costs on top of the fine, but you will be able to make a repayment arrangement.

you can fill out some basic paperwork and pay it off WITHOUT going to court and accruing further penalties.
You go to the fines department, and fill out a statement of means, and an automatic payment form, and away you go.

[JustNick]

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go. It must have looked out of place to the cop for him to have pulled his radar and clocked the OP. I guess, the saying do the crime, pay the fine springs to mind here.

If you cant afford the fine then wait for it to go to court. You will get costs on top of the fine, but you will be able to make a repayment arrangement.

Yeah I've always thought the way the system works regarding organising to pay fines off is a bit of a hassle. i.e. having to wait for your fine to go to court and getting additional debt just so that you can pay it off.

[sleemanj]

All you can do is write in and plead your innocence, or pay the fine (over time), so you might as well try!

I'd point out a faultless driving record (assuming), that you are absolutely 100% certain that you did not bust a red, and that you "split" past the stationary traffic which is legal but found it necessary on the grounds of safety to accelerate in order to merge as the light turned green, being the most safe course of action.

Splitting is such a damn grey area.

[oneofsix]

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go. It must have looked out of place to the cop for him to have pulled his radar and clocked the OP. I guess, the saying do the crime, pay the fine springs to mind here.

If you cant afford the fine then wait for it to go to court. You will get costs on top of the fine, but you will be able to make a repayment arrangement.

If the cop wanted to ping him for being the third vehicle then that is what he should have pinged him for, not for running a red when it was green.
If the law doesn't allow an offense such as being the third vehicle then the sign is a bluff and there is no offense.

[Scuba_Steve]

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go. It must have looked out of place to the cop for him to have pulled his radar and clocked the OP. I guess, the saying do the crime, pay the fine springs to mind here.

If you cant afford the fine then wait for it to go to court. You will get costs on top of the fine, but you will be able to make a repayment arrangement.

Point, I missed the part about it being one of Aucklands retarded on-ramp lights!

... fucking retarded idea they are :facepalm:

[The Baron]

It sounds like you are screwed on this one. Your word / his word.

I think if you fight it to hard it will cost more with extra costs.


In life sometimes SHIT HAPPENS - I say pay it and move on.


How you pay it is up to you but if you drag it out then the pain of it will just last longer.

My 2 cents.

[Indiana_Jones]

If the cop wanted to ping him for being the third vehicle then that is what he should have pinged him for, not for running a red when it was green.
If the law doesn't allow an offense such as being the third vehicle then the sign is a bluff and there is no offense.

Why him and not one of the other two vehicles? :sunny:

-Indy

[Luckylegs]

Why him and not one of the other two vehicles? :sunny:

-Indy

Righteous indignation 1 : common sense 0

Because the other vehicles waited patiently for their turn which they duly took, not like the bike who came wizzing through (by his own admission) to make the green and now wants to bitch about it.

Or something

[Usarka]

Here's a letter.

Dear facist bully boys.

Let me off the tickets. You bastards.

Over5tayer.

[Indiana_Jones]

Here's a letter.

Dear facist bully boys.

Let me off the tickets. You bastards.

Over5tayer.


lol someone has been watching the 'Young ones' :D

-Indy

[rphenix]

so i decided to split Your fcked... :violin: Once you lane split you pretty much give up any chance of arguing anything what judge is going to believe you?

Just pay the fine..

[BoristheBiter]

Point, I missed the part about it being one of Aucklands retarded on-ramp lights!

... fucking retarded idea they are :facepalm:

No argument here, complete bollocks.

[Murray]

I dont want to dig into the cop because i know he's a member on this site (he wouldnt tell me his username)... but did i mention that he began splitting down the motorway right after handing me the fine?


Nah can't be on Kiwibiker otherwise he would know that no-one on kiwibiker does anything wrong!! Any bets on who it was??


Once you lane split you pretty much give up any chance of arguing anything what judge is going to believe you?
Just pay the fine..

But its OK for the copper to lane split away from the scene of the crime???

[over5tayer]

guess i'll just pay it then. Not the first fine I've paid and i'm sure it wont be the last. If the cops weren't such unreasonable bigots i wouldn't be so disinclined to pay. They treat grey areas like they are black and white and use their biased, mood-based judgement to dish out punishments that don't even fit the crime. Why should an on-ramp light have the same $150 fine (and 25 demerits) associated with it as a normal set of lights? its not like pedestrians or other motorists are going to be endangered if you run it. Even if i was travelling at 40 the entire time while splitting (it was about 25-30 until i reached the lights) i don't feel that 40km/h is an unsafe speed to be splitting past cars on an on-ramp. Its not like kids are gonna be leaping out to get to school before the light turns green. I know there are good cops out there but i never seem to have the luck to encounter them.

end of rant :yawn:. i'll stop winging and pay my fines.

[over5tayer]

p.s. when i asked him about lane-splitting he said "it's OK to do it on the motorway as long as you do it safely". I couldnt be bothered arguing with him because i knew he'd probably get angry nd do me for careless/reckless.

[tigertim20]

Why should an on-ramp light have the same $150 fine (and 25 demerits) associated with it as a normal set of lights? .

Um they are a traffic light. period. deal with it and quit your fuckin whining.:facepalm:

[PrincessBandit]

Yup, one of those things that riders prolly do several times and just every now and again there's a cop where you don't want them to be (i.e. able to see what you're doing).
I understand your frustration with the whole red lights onramp stuff, but they're not really different from any other red light (as has been said) so accept the fact that for every time you do it there will be some percentage of "crap, I got caught" moments. (If ya ain't meant to do it, then ya take ya chances - how "safely" you think you execute the maneuver is irrelevant).

[MarkH]

If it was green then the sign says only 2 vehicles per green allowed to go.

I thought that the signs said that 1 vehicle per lane could go on a green, next you'll be telling me that lane 1a (the ancillary lane between lane 1 & lane 2) isn't a genuine lane and is just something that I made up!
What's next? Will someone say that I'm not allowed to use lane F to get passed traffic that is in my way? Lane F being that one that is sometimes used by pedestrians.

I often lane split the on-ramps when they are backed up and then go through the lights in a safe & legal manner (it's legal as long as you don't get caught, right?). The only time I don't split through onto the motorway is when I see a police car in the queue (that's happened a couple of times).

[Bald Eagle]

Only jaffas need lights to help them merge onto a motorway - traffic control for the lowest common denominator ffs. The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.

[Luckylegs]

Righteous indignation 1 : common sense 0



guess i'll just pay it then. Not the first fine I've paid and i'm sure it wont be the last. If the cops weren't such unreasonable bigots i wouldn't be so disinclined to pay. They treat grey areas like they are black and white and use their biased, mood-based judgement to dish out punishments that don't even fit the crime. Why should an on-ramp light have the same $150 fine (and 25 demerits) associated with it as a normal set of lights? its not like pedestrians or other motorists are going to be endangered if you run it. Even if i was travelling at 40 the entire time while splitting (it was about 25-30 until i reached the lights) i don't feel that 40km/h is an unsafe speed to be splitting past cars on an on-ramp. Its not like kids are gonna be leaping out to get to school before the light turns green. I know there are good cops out there but i never seem to have the luck to encounter them.

end of rant :yawn:. i'll stop winging and pay my fines.

See! Its only ever a matter of time... :bleh:

[nosebleed]

Only jaffas need lights to help them merge onto a motorway - traffic control for the lowest common denominator ffs. The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.

Victoria musta had them first. Theres the clue.

[Blackshear]

"it's OK to do it on the motorway as long as you do it safely".

Safely, of course, being up to the officers discretion.
I'm sure I told you about the cop who pulled me over 100m from work, while letting me off for an incorrectly displayed L plate (IT LOOKS LIKE A YELLOW TRIANGLE TO ME), did seem to think he was above most other cops as far as the law was concerned.
3 weeks prior to that, another cop that pulled me over inside a foodtown parking lot (What is the legality of this here, could he issue me a ticket while I was parked?) who, among other things, proceeded to tell me my L plate was not visible (Because there wasn't one) and that shoving one up between the plate and plate holder would be sweet as.

:facepalm:

Followed a bike cop once before over the bridge, in traffic doing 60k's. He decided that was too slow and proceeded to zigzag through the traffic at 80+ without indicating a single flash :yes:

I'd say write in, without mentioning at all that you're broke, or that he proceeded to go against what he had just sprung you for.
Good luck!

p.s Fix your damn pegs :innocent:

[Usarka]

Only jaffas need lights to help them merge onto a motorway - traffic control for the lowest common denominator ffs. The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.

Not sure if that's a troll or just normal hillbilly auckland bashing, but they are there to manage the congestion on the motorways. Transit decided that congestion on the on-ramps is worth the benefit of a more free-flowing motorway.

[Mort]

Plead not guilty and ask for video evidence from the CC cameras. Compare the evidence to that of the cops charge )speed, date, time, running red light etc). Change your plea as required and plead poverty.... defend it as far as you are allowed and make em work for every dollar. Its your right to do so.

[Blackshear]

Not sure if that's a troll or just normal hillbilly auckland bashing, but they are there to manage the congestion on the motorways. Transit decided that congestion on the on-ramps is worth the benefit of a more free-flowing motorway.

I would normally be 100% against you, but after seeing the carnage a failed onramp light wrought on the motorway, I'm with you 100%.
Of course it all still boils down to how people merge, but they are pretty good at regulating.

[Luckylegs]

Plead not guilty and ask for video evidence from the CC cameras. Compare the evidence to that of the cops charge )speed, date, time, running red light etc). Change your plea as required and plead poverty.... defend it as far as you are allowed and make em work for every dollar. Its your right to do so.

Why? Seriously?

[Mort]

Why? Seriously?

There may be good grounds to dismiss the charges or mitigate the fines in addition to pleading poverty on fines that are applied.

.... and just for the hell of it.

[Indiana_Jones]

Fuck the shitty arse on ramp lights. If stupid Bucklame drivers learnt to fucking merge and to leave a gap in front of them traffic would be smoother (there'd still be heavy traffic regardless).

But no, they love to accelerate...BRAKE!....wait....wtf that prick wants to change lanes....and get in front of me?! no fucking way! I'll speed up and fill in the gap ahahahahahaha.

Oh shit balls that knob in front of me braked suddenly, but I didn't have time to stop, would of thought 2 fucking feet from his bumper would of been more then enough room! :sunny:

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

lol someone has been watching the 'Young ones' :D

-Indy

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ANquX0YHFhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As requested

-Indy

[Gremlin]

The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.
Seen them in San Francisco I believe, except they alternate them, instead of allowing a drag race off the lights.

[crystalball]

p.s. when i asked him about lane-splitting he said "it's OK to do it on the motorway as long as you do it safely". I couldnt be bothered arguing with him because i knew he'd probably get angry nd do me for careless/reckless.

I had fun on way home today lots traffic on the MW. Heart racing and eyes watching. Got home thinking im alive. :yes:

[thepom]

I,m with Mort on his.....just cos some arsehole plod is having a shitty day he takes it out on you......your lucky he gave you a speeding ticket as they have doubled last years quota....:angry:

[Big Dave]

Only jaffas need lights to help them merge onto a motorway - traffic control for the lowest common denominator ffs. The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.

They are in all the large cities (I've been to) in the region now.
You just live in a hick town.

[crystalball]

They are in all the large cities (I've been to) in the region now.
You just live in a hick town.

LOL I just brought a jaffa and proud of it T shirt of tm. :rockon:

[davereid]

You have to consider it and make your own decision. But I take all my tickets to court. The same law that enables a cop to write you a ticket gives you the right to say come to court, and prove it beyond reasonable doubt. IMHO there is no advantage writing in. The court is there for the dispute, not the police station.
Leave it to the last minute at every stage. Then ask for as much information from the police by way of disclosure as you can. they may win, they will claim on average they do, but my experience is the reverse. I have had as many tickets as the next chap, but take them all to court, and have a 100% win rate. Some may say the court will be unsympathetic. I have observed the reverse, with the police when poorly organised and badly prepared getting a blast from the court. Additionally, 1 in 5 police transfer or perf each year. Merely defending the case gives you a 20% chance of winning as a result. Dont feel bad about defending it. Police always defend any charges. They may pepper spay and beat a prisoner on video, sexualy assault a women, or do a u turn in front of someone. They always plead not guilty. Its your right, and in my opinion your best option to do the same. Prepre well gets lots of information from the police, (its your right for full disclosure) and do battle. The ticket system only exists because of the weak who pay on demand.

[Luckylegs]

LOL I just brought a jaffa and proud of it T shirt of tm. :rockon:

I sincerely hope the t-shirt actually says jafa or has a round red ball on it!!!!

[Luckylegs]

Only jaffas need lights to help them merge onto a motorway - traffic control for the lowest common denominator ffs. The rest of the world manages it all by themselves.

Only knobs from south of the bombays are stupid enough to refer to aucklanders a small orange covered chocolate ball......

You don't see us calling you a sixx fingeredd Inbredd

ITS JAFA FFS

[crystalball]

I sincerely hope the t-shirt actually says jafa or has a round red ball on it!!!!

LOL yes sorry it says Jafa just one F. Just another fucking Aucklander lol. Wear it when I go to Mount maunganui. :woohoo:

[JATZ]

You have to consider it and make your own decision. But I take all my tickets to court. The same law that enables a cop to write you a ticket gives you the right to say come to court, and prove it beyond reasonable doubt. IMHO there is no advantage writing in. The court is there for the dispute, not the police station.
Leave it to the last minute at every stage. Then ask for as much information from the police by way of disclosure as you can. they may win, they will claim on average they do, but my experience is the reverse. I have had as many tickets as the next chap, but take them all to court, and have a 100% win rate. Some may say the court will be unsympathetic. I have observed the reverse, with the police when poorly organised and badly prepared getting a blast from the court. Additionally, 1 in 5 police transfer or perf each year. Merely defending the case gives you a 20% chance of winning as a result. Dont feel bad about defending it. Police always defend any charges. They may pepper spay and beat a prisoner on video, sexualy assault a women, or do a u turn in front of someone. They always plead not guilty. Its your right, and in my opinion your best option to do the same. Prepre well gets lots of information from the police, (its your right for full disclosure) and do battle. The ticket system only exists because of the weak who pay on demand.

I'm glad some of my tax dollars are being used for a worth while cause :blink:

[DR650gary]

They are in all the large cities (I've been to) in the region now.
You just live in a hick town.

I think you need to get out more. :innocent:

[swbarnett]

Just another fucking Aucklander lol.
Or as I was told by one friendly southerner "Just another Friendly Aucklander".

[Berries]

Surely he was taking the piss?

The guts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jafa)

[Big Dave]

I think you need to get out more. :innocent:

Remand can be tough.

Ridden in Melbourne Sydney Brisbane and Auckland this year. Missed levin though :-)

[swbarnett]

Surely he was taking the piss?

The guts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jafa)
Not at all. That was their own personal definition.

[DR650gary]

Remand can be tough.

Missed levin though :-)

Lucky you, not a lot to miss.

The inability to merge is a New Zealand disease. Spent 2 months driving through the UK and Europe and we are light years behind in road savvy.

They still have issues but merging is not one of them.