MotoGP Aragon

[puddytat]

Practice starts soon....free feed on wwwbahistv.tk
Im picking Rossi for a podium.

[puddytat]

Can a mod delete this as I double posted:facepalm:

[slofox]

Can a mod delete this as I double posted:facepalm:

Drunk again, huh..? :whistle:

[puddytat]

Drunk again, huh..? :whistle:

Na,:doobey::wacko:

[slofox]

Na,:doobey::wacko:

O. I C... no wonder the double post then.

[riffer]

Practice starts soon....free feed on www.bahistv.tk
Im picking Rossi for a podium.


Checked out the website - has a heap of sport on it. How the hell do they mange to legally throw out all these feeds? I would have thought copyright law would have them screwed...

[blackdog]

Checked out the website - has a heap of sport on it. How the hell do they mange to legally throw out all these feeds? I would have thought copyright law would have them screwed...

Do they even have copyright laws in Turkmenistan?

[not2slow]

Good link!!

[riffer]

Do they even have copyright laws in Turkmenistan?


I have no idea, but they certainly do in New Zealand. Make of that what you will.

[blackdog]

I have no idea, but they certainly do in New Zealand. Make of that what you will.

A very valid point. By watching are we breaking the new SKYNET laws? And/or is it even something that would be monitored?

[puddytat]

Nah,its cool Ive sent the Scythe bearing Christians on a mission:yes:

[riffer]

A very valid point. By watching are we breaking the new SKYNET laws? And/or is it even something that would be monitored?


IANAL, however my personal opinion is that it's something that I wouldn't be ringing the police for an opinion on.

[blackdog]

Too true. I wouldn't mind knowing if it does fall under the new laws though, or is it just covering file sharing/torrent downloads? Bush lawyers feel free to chuck in your 2c here.

[DidJit]

Pedrosa leading the charge in FP1 (http://motomatters.com/results/2011/09/16/2011_aragon_motogp_fp1_result_pedrosa_ta.html) before a power failure (http://motomatters.com/news/2011/09/16/power_failure_at_aragon_sees_practice_ca.html) put an end to the day's practices.

Sorry to drag the thread off topic... ;)

[puddytat]

Marques lead the 6oo's,Zarco the 125's:scooter:

[Metastable]

Power failure - I'm kinda surprised they didn't have an open session and just let them run. Do they really need tire warmers? I understand that they probably don't have generators because it would just add a ton of extra weight and space if all the teams used them. They already take up 3 jumbo jets for overseas flights.

The irony is that something as simple as a power outage can have such a drastic effect on proceedings, yet you get track day riders with almost nil budget, a track that has no amenities and the nil budget riders can still heat up their tires..... yet these multimillion dollar teams have to stop :D

I get that it shut down power to timing and scoring etc... and maybe they had no lights in the pits... come on.... you can work around those things.... it was sunny outside. It would serve them well if it rained all day Saturday and for the morning practice, and the sun came out again for the race. :D

[Matt Bleck]

Power failure - I'm kinda surprised they didn't have an open session and just let them run. Do they really need tire warmers? I understand that they probably don't have generators because it would just add a ton of extra weight and space if all the teams used them. They already take up 3 jumbo jets for overseas flights.

The irony is that something as simple as a power outage can have such a drastic effect on proceedings, yet you get track day riders with almost nil budget, a track that has no amenities and the nil budget riders can still heat up their tires..... yet these multimillion dollar teams have to stop :D

I get that it shut down power to timing and scoring etc... and maybe they had no lights in the pits... come on.... you can work around those things.... it was sunny outside. It would serve them well if it rained all day Saturday and for the morning practice, and the sun came out again for the race. :D

umm I don't think you can compare trackday riders and their tyres to motoGP. The bridgestones are very hard to get up to temp even with tyre warmers. Rossi broke his leg because his tyres cooled down to much whilst on the track.....

[blackdog]

Terol just cracked 2 minutes, I didn't think that would happen! Zarco might too before the end of the session.

[blackdog]

Did I hear correctly? Rossi has an alloy frame?

[BMWST?]

Did I hear correctly? Rossi has an alloy frame?

i think he had it last week(time)

[blackdog]

Spies cutting it up in 3rd, 30 mins to go. Randy seems to be able to make the duc work too.

Still early days I 'spose.

[blackdog]

Spieezzee on the front row. Go you good thang.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Practice starts soon....free feed on wwwbahistv.tk
Im picking Rossi for a podium.


Drunk again, huh..? :whistle:

Must be if he thinks Rossi is gonna put that pile of shit on the podium!

Hayden, DePuniet and Abraham are all quicker on the Ducati than Rossi is.

[Metastable]

umm I don't think you can compare trackday riders and their tyres to motoGP. The bridgestones are very hard to get up to temp even with tyre warmers. Rossi broke his leg because his tyres cooled down to much whilst on the track.....

You cannot compare a trackday tire with a GP tire, I'm sure. However, there have been times this year (Nicky at Indy) where a rider has come in and put on a new tire. Now.... would that tire have been warmed up? Dunno - I'm not sure.... just find the irony funny that a little power loss halts proceedings when you have multimillion dollar teams. :)

[NordieBoy]

A very valid point. By watching are we breaking the new SKYNET laws? And/or is it even something that would be monitored?

Skynet only officially looks at torrents at the moment.
Streaming is sweet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

You cannot compare a trackday tire with a GP tire, I'm sure. However, there have been times this year (Nicky at Indy) where a rider has come in and put on a new tire. Now.... would that tire have been warmed up? Dunno - I'm not sure.... just find the irony funny that a little power loss halts proceedings when you have multimillion dollar teams. :)

It's all the timing equipment as well though mate. No power = no action.

[Matt Bleck]

Rossi to start from pitlane after breaking the 6 engine limit

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/173118/1/valentino_rossi_breaks_engine_limit_pit_lane_start .html

[Cleve]

You cannot compare a trackday tire with a GP tire, I'm sure. However, there have been times this year (Nicky at Indy) where a rider has come in and put on a new tire. Now.... would that tire have been warmed up? Dunno - I'm not sure.... just find the irony funny that a little power loss halts proceedings when you have multimillion dollar teams. :)

it was stopped due to track safety and communicating with marshalls etc nothing to do with tyre warmers.

[NZsarge]

Rossi to start from pitlane after breaking the 6 engine limit

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/173118/1/valentino_rossi_breaks_engine_limit_pit_lane_start .html

Not much of a loss anyway considering where he qualified...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not much of a loss anyway considering where he qualified...

Aye. It'll save him getting in the way of the others and holding them up too. Never thought I'd see the day you could say that about Rossi. Kinda sad to see really. I hope those spagetti munchers get the bike sorted asap.

[puddytat]

Must be if he thinks Rossi is gonna put that pile of shit on the podium!

Hayden, DePuniet and Abraham are all quicker on the Ducati than Rossi is.

Ahhhhhh FFS:facepalm:....Im going to have to give John Kirwan a call:bye:

Will be a boring race anyway.....600's & 125's be way betterer:yes:

[pritch]

Because of the various engine mount variations Rossi was going to have to start from pit lane before the end of the season, so the plan was to opt to start from pit lane at Aragon if he didn't qualify to start from at least the second row.

The track geography apparently means that is less of a disadvantage there than any of the remaining tracks, so he will use his seventh engine there.

It seems the team are still thinking...

Kevin Cameron is probably the best motorcycling technical writer around, this time though most of us hereabout should already understand his topic:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/09/17/finding-flexibility-in-motogp-racing/

[Crasherfromwayback]

Kevin Cameron is probably the best motorcycling technical writer around, this time though most of us hereabout should already understand his topic:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2011/09/17/finding-flexibility-in-motogp-racing/

Yeah I always enjoy reading what he has to say. I also think Stoner may well be a better development rider than most people will ever give him credit for. Just a bit hard to get the improvements you want when talking to a stubborn deaf cunt.

[BMWST?]

i woulda thought that ducati could have asked if they could withdraw unused engines and substituted the ones with the different engine mounts.For those not in the know its a bad look to already have USED 6 engines and not be antwhere near the pointy end,tho there seems to nothing wroung with the top end on the duc

TOP SPEEDS
8 Hector BARBERA SPA Mapfre Aspar Team MotoGP DUCATI 321.0
19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP SUZUKI 320.3
27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team HONDA 320.3
26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 318.1
7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 317.8
4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 317.7
24 Toni ELIAS SPA LCR Honda MotoGP HONDA 317.6
69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team DUCATI 316.7
17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE Cardion AB Motoracing DUCATI 316.3
46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team DUCATI 315.5
58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 314.2
14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Pramac Racing Team DUCATI 313.9
65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Pramac Racing Team DUCATI 313.6
1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing YAMAHA 313.2
11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing YAMAHA 311.9
5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 YAMAHA 310.8
35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 YAMAHA 310.5

[SPman]

A very valid point. By watching are we breaking the new SKYNET laws? And/or is it even something that would be monitored?
Good old NZ....we watch it live on free to air TV.........at 8pm.....decent hours.....


well, this year, anyway......

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good old NZ....we watch it live on free to air TV.........at 8pm.....decent hours.....


well, this year, anyway......

All good. I watch it live for a very small cost at a not too bad a time, and get to live here! I can lie down on the grass in summer without being savaged by bull ants too!:innocent:

[SPman]

yeah - nasty buggers aren't they - one bit me through a sock last year !!!!
Petrols too good for the nests when we find them......

[Crasherfromwayback]

yeah - nasty buggers aren't they - one bit me through a sock last year !!!!
Petrols too good for the nests when we find them......

Pricks of things! I thought you said 'sack' at first. Ouch.

[Robert Taylor]

i woulda thought that ducati could have asked if they could withdraw unused engines and substituted the ones with the different engine mounts.For those not in the know its a bad look to already have USED 6 engines and not be antwhere near the pointy end,tho there seems to nothing wroung with the top end on the duc

TOP SPEEDS
8 Hector BARBERA SPA Mapfre Aspar Team MotoGP DUCATI 321.0
19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP SUZUKI 320.3
27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team HONDA 320.3
26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 318.1
7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 317.8
4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 317.7
24 Toni ELIAS SPA LCR Honda MotoGP HONDA 317.6
69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team DUCATI 316.7
17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE Cardion AB Motoracing DUCATI 316.3
46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team DUCATI 315.5
58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 314.2
14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Pramac Racing Team DUCATI 313.9
65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Pramac Racing Team DUCATI 313.6
1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing YAMAHA 313.2
11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing YAMAHA 311.9
5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 YAMAHA 310.8
35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 YAMAHA 310.5

Looking at the speed trap times Jorge's speed is coming from high corner speed, proving he is the best rider. If he can win tonight that will round off a perfect weekend.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Looking at the speed trap times Jorge's speed is coming from high corner speed, proving he is the best rider. If he can win tonight that will round off a perfect weekend.

Stoner = 1

Pedrosa = 2

Spies = 3

Lorenzo will try so hard he'll park it in the gravel. And next year when the thous come out...Stoner will really kick ass.

[Robert Taylor]

Power failure - I'm kinda surprised they didn't have an open session and just let them run. Do they really need tire warmers? I understand that they probably don't have generators because it would just add a ton of extra weight and space if all the teams used them. They already take up 3 jumbo jets for overseas flights.

The irony is that something as simple as a power outage can have such a drastic effect on proceedings, yet you get track day riders with almost nil budget, a track that has no amenities and the nil budget riders can still heat up their tires..... yet these multimillion dollar teams have to stop :D

I get that it shut down power to timing and scoring etc... and maybe they had no lights in the pits... come on.... you can work around those things.... it was sunny outside. It would serve them well if it rained all day Saturday and for the morning practice, and the sun came out again for the race. :D

Yes they do as Matt Bleck pointed out. The temperature window that these tyres operate in and the regime for getting them into that window is very precise. Its the same In Formula 1 car racing and its quite right to expect that ultimate performance is EVERYTHING in this game, whatever pedantic processes are neccessary to achieve that.

Power outages would be exceptionally rare, if you have a power outage in your home do you have a backup generator?

[Robert Taylor]

Stoner = 1

Pedrosa = 2

Spies = 3

Lorenzo will try so hard he'll park it in the gravel. And next year when the thous come out...Stoner will really kick ass.

1 Lorenzo

2 Spies

3 Crutchlow

Stoner to dnf with catastrophic engine failure.

[cmoore]

The Honda is looking too good on this track, but who knows, Lorenzo will go for and be leading into the first corner...Spies will be 12th after the first corner....Stoner will be third at the first corner....spies will come fourth...unless stoner gets tired he will win....Pedrosa and Divi will battle 3-5th....Lorenzo second.....unless they found something between practice and racetime.....seems the Yamaha doesn't like this track and as the Honda is faster and there is a long straight....but it is a race so who knows.....

[steveyb]

Elena Rosell qualified this time round.
Hope she stays on it this time.

Does Zarco have something wrong with his hands? He seemed to be stretching/flexing them an awful lot, like immediately after crossing the finish line after QP.

[Crasherfromwayback]

..seems the Yamaha doesn't like this track and as the Honda is faster and there is a long straight....but it is a race so who knows.....

There's a fucking long straight at Mugello too.

[slowpoke]

Strange ol' qualifying, with less than a second between Speez in 3rd and Edwards in 15th. Anything could happen amongst that lot!

[Crasherfromwayback]

1 Lorenzo

2 Spies

3 Crutchlow

Stoner to dnf with catastrophic engine failure.

I've got nearly as much chance of coming third as Crutchlow has Robert!

And as much as it pains me to say it...the Honda engine is obviously that good that they have spare engines to burn!

Notice the top speed of the Suzuki?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Strange ol' qualifying, with less than a second between Speez in 3rd and Edwards in 15th. Anything could happen amongst that lot!

I reckon! I'm looking forward to watching the race tonight!!!

[puddytat]

Just been watching the Warm Up....some ominous looking black clouds:yes:

And the Repsol boys are in new livery

[ecko_nzed]

1 Lorenzo

2 Spies

3 Crutchlow

Stoner to dnf with catastrophic engine failure.

Did someone slip someone sprinkle some crack on your cornflakes this morning :crazy:

1. Stones
2. Pedrosa
3. Spies

[blackdog]

Pedro, Spies, Simo.

[Robert Taylor]

Did someone slip someone sprinkle some crack on your cornflakes this morning :crazy:

1. Stones
2. Pedrosa
3. Spies

No Im just a hardened disciple of the tuning fork temple from way back. Dont like seeing Stoner win at any price.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah I always enjoy reading what he has to say. I also think Stoner may well be a better development rider than most people will ever give him credit for. Just a bit hard to get the improvements you want when talking to a stubborn deaf cunt.

Is he a good development rider? I personally think not because he is only a seat of the pants and extremely fast rider. But no-one can ride the Ducati like he was able to. A good development rider would perfect a bike so that anyone could go fast on it.
Rossi will yet be vindicated.

[Robert Taylor]

I've got nearly as much chance of coming third as Crutchlow has Robert!

And as much as it pains me to say it...the Honda engine is obviously that good that they have spare engines to burn!

Notice the top speed of the Suzuki?

Yes I saw the speed trap time for the Suzuki, that was really good to see.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Is he a good development rider? I personally think not because he is only a seat of the pants and extremely fast rider. But no-one can ride the Ducati like he was able to. A good development rider would perfect a bike so that anyone could go fast on it.
Rossi will yet be vindicated.

Doubt you can really say that. It would seem obvious Ducati wouldn't listen to him...and insisted they stick with the CF frame. It's taken the massive loss of face with VR to get them to finally change their minds.

Maybe if they'd listened to Stoner from the start they wouldn't be in the mess they are in.

Besides...Stoner seems to have no trouble setting his Honda up as well as, if not better than the rest of them!

[puddytat]

well that 6hundy race had to be one of the best of any class this season,& the onboard footage had me right there, eyes a google:gob:.
watch out next year if this years Rookie gets on a good bike...those first 14 laps were nuts:woohoo:
93 for the championship!!

[trustme]

Doubt you can really say that. It would seem obvious Ducati wouldn't listen to him...and insisted they stick with the CF frame. It's taken the massive loss of face with VR to get them to finally change their minds.

Maybe if they'd listened to Stoner from the start they wouldn't be in the mess they are in.

Besides...Stoner seems to have no trouble setting his Honda up as well as, if not better than the rest of them!

Exactly. Burgess was going to fix the problems in 80 seconds , no worries.

I'm a huge fan of Burgess. I think Stoner had been banging his head against a brick wall, it is a measure of the rider that he could still win. His advice to Hayden was perhaps sage, ' stop over analysing & ride the bloody thing ' or words to that effect

[Crasherfromwayback]

Exactly. Burgess was going to fix the problems in 80 seconds , no worries.



Yeah I remember Burgess criticizing Stoner when he finished 3rd or 4th at Assen last year. Said something along the lines of "I don't know what Casey was doing...he was just riding round following the other guys and didn't try to pass. That's not what racers do!!!"

Seems to be all compliments for Stoner now. Guess you should keep your trap shut unless you know what the guy is up against eh???

Reading what Stoner has said about the steel trellis frame, then the CF frame...he certainly sounds like a guy that know's only too well what the bike is doing and needs.

[roogazza]

What's with the crap livery ?
247057

Moto 2 , simply stunning racing. What a great advert for the sport.

[pritch]

Rossi will yet be vindicated.

I sincerely hope you are right. All the improvements the team manage to find are only incremental and the opposition has been improving too.

The recent quotes to the effect that the team have spent the season trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat, only to be wondering now, if there really is a rabbit in the hat were a worry.

This season held so much promise but the Yamaha can't quite match the Hondas and Ducati have lost their way. Well, they lost the only guy who could ride the bloody thing.

[DidJit]

What's with the crap livery? ...

I didn't think it was doing Repsol (or Honda) any favours either. But, hey, things of art and beauty are all subject to the eye of the beholder, aren't they? ;)

[roogazza]

I didn't think it was doing Repsol (or Honda) any favours either. But, hey, things of art and beauty are all subject to the eye of the beholder, aren't they? ;)
Some bagged Rossi's colour scheme on joining Ducati (me included) but once i saw it in the flesh it didn't look too bad.
I don't know, that orange might look better if the numbers didn't look like they were done with a black marker pen or electrical tape !!!

[carbonhed]

Boy... Stoner's just stomping the life out of the opposition. Third for Lorenzo was as good as he could hope for... shame Simoncelli made that small mistake otherwise we might have had a battle for the last spot on the podium.

Moto2? Just epic once again. It's become the must watch of every GP weekend. 125's always has something to offer.

[jellywrestler]

if the numbers didn't look like they were done with a black marker pen or electrical tape !!!
maybe they want to race it in NZ and this would be a pretty good diguise...

[NZsarge]

Aye. It'll save him getting in the way of the others and holding them up too. Never thought I'd see the day you could say that about Rossi. Kinda sad to see really. I hope those spagetti munchers get the bike sorted asap.

It is fucking sad to see actually, never had much time for Ducati's and this isn't endearing them to me either. Frustrating to see him on that pile of excrement when you know he'd be doing so much better on his old bike.

[NZsarge]

Notice the top speed of the Suzuki?

Did you notice the lack of top speed the Yamaha's had? Better get their shit together with the Thou's next year!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Did you notice the lack of top speed the Yamaha's had? Better get their shit together with the Thou's next year!

Yeah but I also note Lorenzo won at Mugello...which has one of the longest straights.

Two things. 1; Drive out of corners = speed down the straights. In a straight out drag race, I don't think the Yamaha has looked that much slower than the Honda.

2; I think the Honda is running way fresher engines than the Yamaha. If it was gonna come down to the wire...there's no fucking way Yamaha wanted Lorenzo having to start from pit lane. Yamaha are all but out of allocated engines, Honda has only just begun.

[rachprice]

I actually like the colour of the honda but fuck me it looks like a kid did the repsol writing and the numbers!

Moto2 was an amazing race!!

Interesting to see what Marquez will do next year hey? Another little spanish prodigy rising up through the motogp ranks

Go stoner!
Class act he is

[merv]

Yeah, well Honda do a know a thing or two about engines. With their car and general power side of the business (read anything from aircraft, generators, mowers to outboards) in addition to bikes they have all the information at their fingertips. When did a Honda Indy car engine last fail in a race for example? Compared to Ducati they have huge experience and information at their fingertips I am sure.

Casey did it so easily compared to the others he didn't need to go faster than last year's race time.

Anyway, see this http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2011/ARA/MotoGP/RAC/Analysis.pdf?v1_64de0e26 in fact the fastest speed of the race was set by Aoyama with Rossi not far behind. I wouldn't worry about the Yamahas being down on speed, its the lap times that matter.

[Brian d marge]

I can help you there, Honda have a huge database of researched engine trials and tribulatetions, in fact I am just cleaning one document up now ( or I should be but I took the kids to the park)

there are a few quite brilliant engineers in their field, but a hell of a lot on time serving nongs but they do spend and foster research into the engine,,,,, that's their strong point

you won't see anything radical or new from Honda just solutions to problems ........

stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

you won't see anything radical or new from Honda just solutions to problems ........

stephen

Oval pistons are a bit radical and (back then) new. Yes you can argue it was simply a solution to the problem of the restriction in the number of cyls allowed.

[merv]

Stephen, many things Honda do first and let the others play catch up, seamless gearboxes being but one example.

In this case they let the others use up all their engines too quickly haha while Honda engines just soldier on.

[NZsarge]

Yeah but I also note Lorenzo won at Mugello...which has one of the longest straights.

Two things. 1; Drive out of corners = speed down the straights. In a straight out drag race, I don't think the Yamaha has looked that much slower than the Honda.

Drive out of corner's has long been an issue with the Yamaha chassis, riders are always on about trying to improve this in their set up as for the lack there of...
Speed traps were telling the story as was the obviously easy at which some bikes and riders were passing Spies down the main straight, bottom line remains for whatever reason they were slow in their top speed compared to all the other brands, the 4 Yamaha's were the 4 slowest bikes I heard one of the commentators say.

2; I think the Honda is running way fresher engines than the Yamaha. If it was gonna come down to the wire...there's no fucking way Yamaha wanted Lorenzo having to start from pit lane. Yamaha are all but out of allocated engines, Honda has only just begun.
Yes Honda probably are running fresher engines which is giving a slight false sense of Stoner's and Pedrosa's pace but even if the likes of Yamaha weren't running low on engines I don't really think things would have turned out that differently. Yamaha needs to get the 1000cc engines to last and produce a shit load of power/grunt like Honda have with the 800's. Maybe Yamaha need to filch back the engineer's the Honda filched off them...

[BMWST?]

Good old NZ....we watch it live on free to air TV.........at 8pm.....decent hours.....


well, this year, anyway......

well i watched it starting at 8 45 pm, whats your point?(for less than a coffee a day)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yes Honda probably are running fresher engines which is giving a slight false sense of Stoner's and Pedrosa's pace but even if the likes of Yamaha weren't running low on engines I don't really think things would have turned out that differently. Yamaha needs to get the 1000cc engines to last and produce a shit load of power/grunt like Honda have with the 800's. Maybe Yamaha need to filch back the engineer's the Honda filched off them...

How would you explain this then? Top speeds at Mugello.

1 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 322.3 1'48.034
2 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 319.2 1'48.479 0.445 / 0.445
3 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 321.0 1'48.485 0.451 / 0.006
4 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 324.8 1'48.694 0.660 / 0.209
5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 323.1 1'48.756 0.722 / 0.062

[Robert Taylor]

How would you explain this then? Top speeds at Mugello.

1 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 322.3 1'48.034
2 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 319.2 1'48.479 0.445 / 0.445
3 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 321.0 1'48.485 0.451 / 0.006
4 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 324.8 1'48.694 0.660 / 0.209
5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 323.1 1'48.756 0.722 / 0.062

Because Yamaha have likely done what they did last year when running short of engines, ''turned down'' the power on them

[NZsarge]

How would you explain this then? Top speeds at Mugello.

1 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 322.3 1'48.034
2 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 319.2 1'48.479 0.445 / 0.445
3 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 321.0 1'48.485 0.451 / 0.006
4 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 324.8 1'48.694 0.660 / 0.209
5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 323.1 1'48.756 0.722 / 0.062
Probably drafting a Honda at the time :D, fact remains Yamaha's were down on top speed at Aragon. Perhaps it had something to do with the entry on to the striaght at Mugello, could have been gearing, any number of reasons. Yamah's might have had their last fresh engine in... what ever. Yamaha's rarely top any speed traps.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Because Yamaha have likely done what they did last year when running short of engines, ''turned down'' the power on them

Or the engines are just getting a tad 'tired'. Odd though...it was at the beginning of the season that Lorenzo was complaining most about the Honda's speed advantage.



Probably drafting a Honda at the time :D, fact remains Yamaha's were down on top speed at Aragon. Perhaps it had something to do with the entry on to the striaght at Mugello, could have been gearing, any number of reasons. Yamahas might have had their last fresh engine in... what ever. Yamaha's rarely top any speed traps.

I agree that the Yamaha's were down on top speed this weekend. The Ducati's were all faster than them too. Didn't help them beat the Yamaha's though did it? Why do people get so wound up about top speed? Carl Crutchlow on his slow Yamaha was able to beat Rossi's much faster Ducati.

Laguna Seca has nothing at all to do with top speed, or even speed. Yet the same guy won that round.

Maybe...as much as the Stoner haters don't want to admit it...he's simply faster than the rest are?

He's obviously more versatile.:innocent:

[BMWST?]

Because Yamaha have likely done what they did last year when running short of engines, ''turned down'' the power on them

maybe it was actually about fuel consumption,casey seemed to run out right at the end

[Brian d marge]

Oval pistons are a bit radical and (back then) new. Yes you can argue it was simply a solution to the problem of the restriction in the number of cyls allowed.

The corporate structure has change. I doubt there will be anymore oval pistons , it was a different factory then

you will more likely get what the old men. think that the young men from shibuya want

Stephen

[NZsarge]

I agree that the Yamaha's were down on top speed this weekend. The Ducati's were all faster than them too. Didn't help them beat the Yamaha's though did it? Why do people get so wound up about top speed? Carl Crutchlow on his slow Yamaha was able to beat Rossi's much faster Ducati.

Laguna Seca has nothing at all to do with top speed, or even speed. Yet the same guy won that round.

Maybe...as much as the Stoner haters don't want to admit it...he's simply faster than the rest are?

He's obviously more versatile.:innocent:
Sounds like you're trying to ask people to believe that the Honda isn't the fastest all 'round bike on the track at the moment....
Top speed? A speed advantage is just that, an advantage, a pretty handy one to have too. Makes it a whole lot easier to pass on a decent straight than drafting alone..
I'm not hating on the wingnut convict, he's obviously riding the Honda the best on average at the moment and good on him.
The other issue that a few riders obviously come up against was rear grip, Rossi and Spies at least were going backwards in the latter parts of the race...

[gixerracer]

Sounds like you're trying to ask people to believe that the Honda isn't the fastest all 'round bike on the track at the moment....
Top speed? A speed advantage is just that, an advantage, a pretty handy one to have too. Makes it a whole lot easier to pass on a decent straight than drafting alone..
I'm not hating on the wingnut convict, he's obviously riding the Honda the best on average at the moment and good on him.
The other issue that a few riders obviously come up against was rear grip, Rossi and Spies at least were going backwards in the latter parts of the race...

It isn't other wise Semenjelly and that other guy on the 3rd factory Honda would be at the front all the time and they are not. Stoner is the only guy dominating and he would do the same on the yamaha:yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sounds like you're trying to ask people to believe that the Honda isn't the fastest all 'round bike on the track at the moment....
.

Not at all mate. It's blinding obvious it's the best bike out there this year. Like the Yamaha was last year. It's how it goes. But no one seems to mention that when Rossi won his titles with Honda he had by far the best bike.

[NZsarge]

It isn't other wise Semenjelly and that other guy on the 3rd factory Honda would be at the front all the time and they are not. Stoner is the only guy dominating and he would do the same on the yamaha:yes:
Ever thought they wouldn't be as far up as they are if it weren't riding a Bland mobile? And no.... He wouldn't be dominating on the Yamaha if he were riding it, that's just a silly statement.

Not at all mate. It's blinding obvious it's the best bike out there this year. Like the Yamaha was last year. It's how it goes. But no one seems to mention that when Rossi won his titles with Honda he had by far the best bike.
Not at all mate. Rossi was at times on the fastest machine when winning his many many many championships but not always. That said he's 'usually' been riding the fastest bike because he Burgess and crew have developed it to be that way. You can't really say that of Stoner this year...

[Crasherfromwayback]

. That said he's 'usually' been riding the fastest bike be he Burgess and crew have developed it to be that way. You can't really say that of Stoner this year...

Well guess we'll see how well Stoner can develop the new 1000. But I do find it odd that Rossi and Burgess aren't making any headway yet. In fact...often out qualified by rookies on customer bikes. Hardly the best display of development I've seen

[merv]

Yes with all the success he's had I always thought Burgess was the man, so what's happened? :facepalm:

[NZsarge]

Well guess we'll see how well Stoner can develop the new 1000. But I do find it odd that Rossi and Burgess aren't making any headway yet. In fact...often out qualified by rookies on customer bikes. Hardly the best display of development I've seen

Lets not forget that Ducati have gone down a development path that's boxed them into a set up that's obviously irretrievable. The moment that I heard (while Stoner was still with them) that they were using a CF chassis even I knew that was a no no... Go back to a trellis frame or better still get with the times and start building alloy chassis' for you GP bike Ducati! Don't you think that if CF were a viable option the Japanese would have done it by now?
Rossi's qualifying is disappointing for sure but where are all these Ducati rider's that out qualify him come the end of the race? Oh, i'll tell you... 9 times out of 10 they are behind him, Hayden included.
I lived in hope that Rossi and crew might be able to develop something out the Ducati chassis but every one else has move on... even Suzuki! Unfortunately my worst fears have been realized by Rossi going to Ducati, like a a lot of other rider's on the GP circuit they are trying to deal with Ducati's shit idea's, they (Ducati) need to forget this year and develop (with a company that can actually make them) an alloy chassis and start looking towards 2012 or probably more like 2013 championship year.

[Crasherfromwayback]

(Ducati) need to forget this year and develop (with a company that can actually make them) an alloy chassis and start looking towards 2012 or probably more like 2013 championship year.

Agreed 100%. Time to ditch the pride.

[trustme]

They have already flagged this year. Alloy frames & Rossi starting from pit lane tells us that.
The problems with the Duc are so fundamental that Burgess / Rossi fiddling around the edges found they were going nowhere, hence the alloy frame.
A trellis frame is not the answer, it is very hard to get uniform rigidity in them. They are not uniformly repeatable so each frame handles differently. You & I might not notice it but Stoner & co sure do

[pritch]

s. But no one seems to mention that when Rossi won his titles with Honda he had by far the best bike.

Now that is just flat out wrong. You need to do some research Grasshopper.

Have you see the movie "Faster"?

There were other guys had Hondas, and when he went to Yamaha he initially had the second best bike. He still won.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Now that is just flat out wrong. You need to do some research Grasshopper.

Have you see the movie "Faster"?

There were other guys had Hondas, and when he went to Yamaha he initially had the second best bike. He still won.

Well it's odd...but I think you'll find the NSR500 was by far the best 500, then the RC211V was also. Do you not agree? So my point is...why do people say Stoner is only winning because he's on the best bike...but never Rossi? And yes others rode the same bike as Rossi (although I bet alot of them didn't get the same special tyres etc)...but others are riding the very same bike Stoner has...but with the same tyres.

Work that one out for us.

[NZsarge]

Well it's odd...but I think you'll find the NSR500 was by far the best 500, then the RC211V was also. Do you not agree? So my point is...why do people say Stoner is only winning because he's on the best bike...but never Rossi? And yes others rode the same bike as Rossi (although I bet alot of them didn't get the same special tyres etc)...but others are riding the very same bike Stoner has...but with the same tyres.

Work that one out for us.




Not at all mate. Rossi was at times on the fastest machine when winning his many many many championships but not always. That said he's 'usually' been riding the fastest bike because he Burgess and crew have developed it to be that way.
He 'might' of been 'given' the best tyres at one point but he isn't anymore, he was getting the best tyres because he fucking deserved them, he was doing the business.. end of story. You need to stop being a hater :D

[Crasherfromwayback]

He 'might' of been 'given' the best tyres at one point but he isn't anymore, he was getting the best tyres because he fucking deserved them, he was doing the business.. end of story. You need to stop being a hater :D

I've never been a hater. I simply like pointing out various things to certain people.

[NZsarge]

I've never been a hater. I simply like pointing out various things to certain people.

Yeah I used to dislike Stoner, moaning git he was. I see now he's on a decent bike (albeit a bland one :whistle:) he seems to be a lot more palatable. I think Stoner deserves to be where he is at at the moment, he's got the same bike and tyres as two others out there and is consistently faster if not always than the other two. On the fastest bike? Yes, but that's the way it is so.... Would be good to see him get some strong and consistent challengers as it was when Rossi was challenged when he was on a Yamaha, made watching it all the more interesting.

[merv]

So just because Hondas are the best bikes they are "bland". Spare me days, with the RC212V we're not talking about a Vespa scooter. What would the RC212V have to be not to be bland. Would it have to lose all its innovation to have "character" or some other such dumb word to be slower or more unreliable like the others?

[cmoore]

Whilst I am totally behind the Yamaha team, I know that Honda has it this year with the RC212, the Honda has taken 8 years or so to get to this point....no doubt all this will change next year since it will be all new engines.

[Metastable]

Ya Rossi has typically been on one of the better machines.... either because he was the top rider of the team, like during the transition from 2-strokes to 4, or because he simply developed a better bike. He talks about this in his Autobiography.... but he still constantly beat other riders on very similar machines.

I have to give him credit for making a bike easy to ride. Every time he has developed a bike, near the end of that development cycle it seems most riders can ride that bike well. He did it with the RC211 and with the M1.

I can't say the same thing for Stoner or Pedrosa.... in both cases other riders were having difficulties riding the same bike.

Going on to next year, I hope the cc increase will make weight advantage less important. It is amazing how some of those little dudes just blow past some of the other guys going down the back straight. Plus, I wish they'd take out traction control and fit the bikes with a stock ecu.... but that doesn't look like it will happen. The last year of the 1000cc class was awesome, you'd never know who was going to win.

[Brian d marge]

some good points here http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/3883/why-ducati-isnt-winning-anymore/

But to summerise

Cf , different hysteresis, different feed back ( feels funny )
Casey stoner , used to no feel from dirt bike days
Engineers , not Jb , make the bike , JB and rossi use the bike and report back
and as I have said a zillion times bore , is an 90 degree duke , .... good luck in getting the COF anywhere near the front
contact patch , brain , wrist ... anything else in between is just plain wrong

Stephen