What do your cellphone, diabetes, artificial leg and glasses have in common?

[davereid]

The answer is you.

When you signed up for that phone contract, you allowed the cellphone company to make some checks on you.

And some of the data they got provided them with background information on your eyesight, hearing, diabetes and other general health issues.

This particular check was done around 80-90,000 times last year, on customers who had given "consent" to a phone companies or credit company.


My question is..

Did you consent ?

I know the form says they can make "any inquiry of any agency", or words to that effect.

But would you have consented if you knew they would get information like that ?

Or are these consents so buried in the paperwork, that we don't even know what we are allowing them to do ?

And, if it is being done without meaningful consent do we care ? Should we try and stop it ?

[tigertim20]

On the one hand, most people would be fucked off if they knew how much information was passed around with things like this.

On the other hand, its 2011, what are you going to do about it?

I think most people go with the whole 'ignorance is bliss' mentality

[slofox]

So I'm a broken down old crock. So fucking what?

I ain't got nuffink to hide anyway - let 'em do their worst!

[davereid]

I have to admit to being gob-smacked that no one minds !
I was personally shocked to find that it was possible, nonetheless common.

Maybe privacy is an outdated concept.

[DrunkenMistake]

Maybe you should get off the plans and get on prepay haha

[davereid]

Its not just cellphones. Any credit application may be involved.

[DrunkenMistake]

Its not just cellphones. Any credit application may be involved.

I see what you are meaning now,
The information gathered isnt personal details i.e they can say 2 out of every 200 people have a bung eye, You might be unlucky enough to have a bung eye, but the information they gathered was about your eye site, But they dont use your name or contact information etc.

Well to my understanding,

[FJRider]

Maybe privacy is an outdated concept.

ONLY those with something to hide (and attempt to keep hidden) have anything to fear... and THEY will most likely ... ALREADY know ... :yes:

Read the fine print ... or DON'T ... at YOUR peril ... :violin:

[davereid]

But they don't use your name or contact information etc.

No they seek, and get a report with information on an individual. Vodaphone, Veda Advantage, GE Finance and so on are doing it.

It reports things like DrunkenMistake has diabetes, may have an alcohol problem, has an artificial limb, etc.

[Maha]

So I'm a broken down old crock. So fucking what?

I ain't got nuffink to hide anyway - let 'em do their worst!

I am with you on this, I am as clean as a whistle...(now):yes:
Perhaps those that are not should have concerns?...dont know.
No, I dont care to be honest, its probably been going on for longer than we can remember.

[FJRider]

Its not just cellphones. Any credit application may be involved.

And you dont think anybody lending money to a person ... doesn't have the right to know all relevent details about that person ... ???

[DrunkenMistake]

No they seek, and get a report with information on an individual. Vodaphone, Veda Advantage, GE Finance and so on are doing it.

It reports things like DrunkenMistake has diabetes, may have an alcohol problem, has an artificial limb, etc.

I think a finance company for example, should know about possible things I.E
If I were to have a drinking problem = Higher risk of not paying the money back
Has been to drug rehab = High risk of reoffending, not paying it back
Has an artificial limb = May lose job, High risk of not been able to pay it back due to work.

I dont know if thats how it is, but I see it as justified.

[BMWST?]

i would like to know WHAT information they want and WHY,and WHERE they intend to get it

[mashman]

I think a finance company for example, should know about possible things I.E
If I were to have a drinking problem = Higher risk of not paying the money back
Has been to drug rehab = High risk of reoffending, not paying it back
Has an artificial limb = May lose job, High risk of not been able to pay it back due to work.

I dont know if thats how it is, but I see it as justified.

And if they're trying to make a go of things?

I suppose it was only a matter of time before this sort of shit became legal... Time for the probability folk to step up to underpin the risks involved in coughing without following through. Happy days ahead.

[DrunkenMistake]

And if they're trying to make a go of things?

I suppose it was only a matter of time before this sort of shit became legal... Time for the probability folk to step up to underpin the risks involved in coughing without following through. Happy days ahead.

If I was lending money to someone,
I would want to know the risk of not getting it paid back/paid back in full.
Agreed some information is probably a little off the track, but I think you will also find this has been happening longer than you think

[davereid]

If I was lending money to someone,
I would want to know the risk of not getting it paid back/paid back in full.
Agreed some information is probably a little off the track, but I think you will also find this has been happening longer than you think

I agree that a lender has the right to determine his chances of getting his money back.

But is your electricity retailer really giving you a loan ?

He estimates every other account, chances are you may be loaning him money.

Businesses go broke owing BILLIONS of dollars every year to investors and their customers.

When I buy shares or a 24 month gym contact with a gym that may go broke should I have access to the Directors medical records ?

And is the fact I am deaf or have an artificial limb relevant in determining the likely-hood that I will pay my phone bill ?

I would suggest that my repayment history is more important in determining my credit score than the fact I have diabetes.

Should they also have access to even more data ? Is the fact that I was treated for crabs when I was 14 an indicator that I may be irresponsible ?

The argument that I should just stick with prepay (AKA cash) is convincing. I would accept this.

Except that by paying cash, it seems I pay more. The best cellphone deals require credit. The supply of electricity requires credit.

So the firms involved are not being bullied into offering me credit, they WANT me to have it.

How much personal information is it fair to share.

And really, when you signed that 36 months free credit thing at the TV shop, did you knowingly consent to medical data being provided to the credit provider by a government department ?

[mashman]

If I was lending money to someone,
I would want to know the risk of not getting it paid back/paid back in full.
Agreed some information is probably a little off the track, but I think you will also find this has been happening longer than you think

heh, very true...just because you have a bucket load of assets doesn't exactly make you a sure thing though does it? I feel sorry for those who are penalised for their past problems... it doesn't always follow that they'll go on to default, although the probability calculation will alert the computer to say no... praps the human would say no too.

I know for a fact you could buy the finance data in the UK 7 years ago (12k per month) and it wouldn't surprise me if the practice had been going on far longer than that... after all they're a "boys" club.

[DrunkenMistake]

I agree that a lender has the right to determine his chances of getting his money back.

But is your electricity retailer really giving you a loan ?

He estimates every other account, chances are you may be loaning him money.

Businesses go broke owing BILLIONS of dollars every year to investors and their customers.

When I buy shares or a 24 month gym contact with a gym that may go broke should I have access to the Directors medical records ?

And is the fact I am deaf or have an artificial limb relevant in determining the likely-hood that I will pay my phone bill ?

I would suggest that my repayment history is more important in determining my credit score than the fact I have diabetes.

Should they also have access to even more data ? Is the fact that I was treated for crabs when I was 14 an indicator that I may be irresponsible ?

The argument that I should just stick with prepay (AKA cash) is convincing. I would accept this.

Except that by paying cash, it seems I pay more. The best cellphone deals require credit. The supply of electricity requires credit.

So the firms involved are not being bullied into offering me credit, they WANT me to have it.

How much personal information is it fair to share.

And really, when you signed that 36 months free credit thing at the TV shop, did you knowingly consent to medical data being provided to the credit provider by a government department ?

I understand what you are saying,
To be honest, It doesnt bother me one bit, if It were used in a way that was illegal I.E identity theft, I would be PISSED, but it just seems like its apart of statistics,
Maybe I am just playing a, If I didnt see it, It didnt happen kind of card,
Maybe you should email one of these places you know of and ask them to explain their reasoning behind it? unless this is second hand information you had received?

[tigertim20]

DM. what do you think they do with this information? File it away? pass it onto an individual who manually goes through the applications, and whodetermines that having had crabs at 14 makes you unlikely to pay off your $1500 hire purchase on the lounge suite, because youre probably a man slut who will impregnate a woman who takes him for everything he has, thus removing his ability to complete said hire purchase?
No. Of course not.

They collect information, and they then SELL it. Why? How else to you think companies manage to market products for maximum profits? its through the collection of data, that is traded, bought and sold as necessary to collect the data that helps you sell your product.
Basically the collection of data is used to line someone elses pockets.

[DrunkenMistake]

DM. what do you think they do with this information? File it away? pass it onto an individual who manually goes through the applications, and whodetermines that having had crabs at 14 makes you unlikely to pay off your $1500 hire purchase on the lounge suite, because youre probably a man slut who will impregnate a woman who takes him for everything he has, thus removing his ability to complete said hire purchase?
No. Of course not.

They collect information, and they then SELL it. Why? How else to you think companies manage to market products for maximum profits? its through the collection of data, that is traded, bought and sold as necessary to collect the data that helps you sell your product.
Basically the collection of data is used to line someone elses pockets.

Thought I would suck you into this eventually,
Im claiming total bliss,
It doesnt hurt me, and as far as I know it hasnt hurt anyone else,
I want to know which of these places do it, and I would like to see the proof of it,
At the moment this is sounding a bit like a moon landing theory.
No offence intended to the OP, im not saying you are full of it, im just unsure of how credible it really all is, if it is proven then im sure it is a breach of privacy that or it needs to be mentioned in the terms and conditions of any contract.

[tigertim20]

I did say much earlier that most people take the ignorance is bliss approach. - as do I normally.

Virtually everyone does it, its not a secret at all, they avoid privacy breaches with wording in the contract with something like
'I give xxx company permission to access my personal, financial and other records as they see fit, in order to conduct their business' or words to that affect.
They can define the selling and trading of information collected as necessary for their business.

How often do you use facebook? look at all the 'privacy breaches' that occur on there. they basically own everything you post, whether you later delete it or not. is that fair? Do you think they are not profiting from it? - of course they are.

Some simply dont realise whats going on.
Some know its going on and accept that the idea of privacy is fast becoming a defunct archaic concept in the modern technological age
and the rest know about it and dislike it because they know someone is profiting from it, and are annoyed that they arent getting a cut for contributing.

[DrunkenMistake]

I did say much earlier that most people take the ignorance is bliss approach. - as do I normally.

Virtually everyone does it, its not a secret at all, they avoid privacy breaches with wording in the contract with something like
'I give xxx company permission to access my personal, financial and other records as they see fit, in order to conduct their business' or words to that affect.
They can define the selling and trading of information collected as necessary for their business.

How often do you use facebook? look at all the 'privacy breaches' that occur on there. they basically own everything you post, whether you later delete it or not. is that fair? Do you think they are not profiting from it? - of course they are.

Some simply dont realise whats going on.
Some know its going on and accept that the idea of privacy is fast becoming a defunct archaic concept in the modern technological age
and the rest know about it and dislike it because they know someone is profiting from it, and are annoyed that they arent getting a cut for contributing.

Not the response I was expecting,
but my thoughts exactly, just couldnt put the words into effect,
Also thinking of a polite way to say shit happens, get over it haha.